Open Thread

What’s on your mind?

Comments

[Mr. Bumble]

Snowing where you are?

[bloocow2]

Nope. It is about 43 degrees Celsius right now! But I've heard about the ice storms in America; hope everyone is ok!

[Mr. Bumble]

Do you regularly get snow in the summer?

[bloocow2]

It has happened from time to time, yes. But Melbourne is a weird place.

[Mr. Bumble]

Oz has become a weird place.

[bloocow2]

I mean, yeah. No arguments there! Northern Territory is the weirdest of them all; I think the heat just does something to their brains.

[Commenter_XY]

We think so too, AussieTrash.

[bloocow2]

See, you didn't have to say anything there. I hadn't even said anything remotely objectionable to anyone, but you just had to come in and be an obnoxious cunt for no reason.

Didn't you? It's just a compulsion, isn't it?

[bloocow2]

(please note: there may be some language difference between how Australians and Americans use the word "cunt". In America, I believe that word is a derogatory term used mainly for women. In Australia, it's used for both men and women, and sometimes as a term of endearment. In this context, though, it has a similar meaning to "dickhead" or "fuckstool" or "shitheel". Apologies if there was any confusion)

[not guilty]

In America, "cunt" is a derisive reference to female genitalia. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cunt

[bloocow2]

I'm aware of the American meaning haha. It's a much more versatile word outside of America.

[SRG2]

The seppos don't appreciate the many ways in which "cunt" can be used.

It reached its apogee in this legendary sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTifRi3qDkU

[hobie]

My apologies again for the MAGA trash, bloocow. As you can plainly see, hating foreigners, even a polite one like yourself, is a reflexive habit. Turning Point has conditioned XY to believe that there are millions like you trying to have sex with XY's boyfriend and trying to steal his department store job.

Also, never has 'cunt' been more hilariously used than by Jim Jeffries. I love that guy.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Clearly, Australia is more woke with such gender neutral usage of female derogatory terms. The U.S. is bested once more. What a bunch of "fuckstools" we are. Ha ha.

[David Nieporent]

In Australia, it's used for both men and women, and sometimes as a term of endearment.

Of course, not just Australia. Anyone who has watched the Amazon series The Boys has heard Karl Urban's character (who was British, although Urban himself is New Zealanderish) use it pretty much every other sentence in various ways.

[NvEric]

'Cunt lines' refers to the spaces between strands of twisted rope. To dress the rope neatly, one adds small stuff into the cunt lines.

[Commenter_XY]

Oh, I'm sorry, did you crack the shits?

[Michael Resanovic]

Don't judge Americans by one man. XY is an illegal currently awaiting deportation to Mars.

[Frank Drackman]

The Phases of the Moon are reversed from the Northern Hemisphere, almost like the Earth's round or something.

[bloocow2]

Have you seen the movie Bugonia? There's a twist at the end that addresses this.

[darkknight9]

No, but it did warm up a little. It was -22F/-30C a few days ago and we haven't seen positive temps since. I hear it did get to a balmy -7F this afternoon though. 🙂

[Mr. Bumble]

12F and calm (thankfully because wind chill is real and it's a bitch) and no snow yet at 5:00 AM.

[Frank Drackman]

What business is it of yours if it's snowing when I am, friendo?

[hobie]

Only got two inches so far. Were expecting 12" more.

But here in Nigtown we're all nice and comfy in our gigantic 3 and 4 story houses with 6 bedroom/3 bath minimums, while the rubes in their bungalows are waiting for their hillbilly coops to turn off the power

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jerL7dnKxxbUzp1y9

[SRG2]

Yes - not heavily but it just keeps coming down

[ducksalad]

No snow and nothing a Northerner wouldn't consider an ordinary day. However, it's about to dip below freezing so a lot of preparation covering and rigging up heaters (incandescent bulbs, getting harder to find) for delicate plants: avocado, younger citrus, and apples/plums that were just now blooming. 80s last week fooled a bunch of them into deciding to start their spring cycle.

[Paladin_44]

For about the last 8 - 9 hours. Very windy here on the northern NJ coast. Perhaps 6 - 7" so far.

[Mr. Bumble]

Started here at around 6:00 AM (due west of NYC). Steady and heavy the whole time and about 8" (12:30 PM). Thankfully it's a powdery snow not the wet heavy heart attack snow. If you have a decent leaf blower you can use it to clear steps and cars.

[Bluckers]

it's indisputable that obama and biden were gay lovers in the oval office. the only question is, who was the pitcher and who was the catcher? was obama pitching his chocolate love deep into biden's shriveled butthole, or was obama grabbing the edge of the desk while biden plowed him good and hard, leaving a massive load of creepy old man cream to drip out in front of moochelle?

[Harry S]

What is the news of the day? iCE agents start roughly pushing various people in Minneapolis and when a VA ICU nurse, Alex Pretti, tries to get between an ICE officer and the woman he is knocking to the ground, a gang of masked ICE officers start pepper spraying and beating on Pretti. At that point, Pretti had his phone in his right hand and his left hand was empty. As they are beating Pretti on the ground, an officer takes a gun Pretti is licensed to carry out of Pretti’s waistband, carries it away and (likely accidentally) discharges it. Other officers than fire 10 bullets into the prone and disarmed man, executing him. Now the President and his minions are smearing the deceased Pretti. I’ve had enough of this from ICE and from the Trump Administration. I’ve never wanted to live in a police state before and I don’t now.

[not guilty]

To paraphrase a well known movie cliché, Forget it, Harry S. It's MAGAtown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWnubJ9CEw

[Riva]

Yeah some news in Minnesota. You must have missed Dr. Oz’s visit to just one building where 400 “autism” medicaid offices operated generating about $380,000,000 in billing. Located in an industrial complex. How was it possible this fraud thrived? Maybe Walz can help out? Maybe he’ll have time when he’s not inciting more chaos and the paid agitators get a little too cold, although I understand their benefactors try real hard to keep them well outfitted.
https://x.com/DrOzCMS/status/2014797297670906325

[David Nieporent]

How was it possible this fraud thrived? Maybe Walz can help out?

He would have to, because the local USAO lost its attorneys who were investigating it because of Trump/Miller's utterly pointless malevolent PR stunt with respect to ICE in Minneapolis.

But this is an even sadder and more pathetic MAGA whatabout than usual, anyway. The bot's programmers are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. "ICE just murdered another citizen." "Oh yeah? What about some Medicaid scam that had nothing to do with ICE?"

[Joe_dallas]

Riva - made a valid point. Quite few other states have much higher illegal immigrant arrests with out incidents. While MN has had a lot of violence due to the incitement from The governor and other MN state elected officials

You comment on the fraud in simply inane. The MN fraud has been going on for several years. The has been a recent video that has come out where Ellison is stating that he has the fraudster back

[David Nieporent]

That is not what the "recent video" says, liar. And still has nothing whatsover to do with this discussion, other than they both involve events in the state of Minnesota.

[Joe_dallas]

Dn - you are the one that called out the MN fraud investigations

I responded to your comment -

[David Nieporent]

I am not the one that called out the MN fraud investigations. You really have trouble reading, or at least following attributions. Rivabot was:

Yeah some news in Minnesota. You must have missed Dr. Oz’s visit to just one building where 400 “autism” medicaid offices operated generating about $380,000,000 in billing. Located in an industrial complex. How was it possible this fraud thrived?

I merely quoted him.

[Riva]

It takes a truly bold and audacious useful idiot to respond with “whataboutism” after whining about claimed “whataboutism.”

[Riva]

More mostly peaceful protests where one mostly non-biting “protester” bites the finger off an ICE agent.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2026/01/dhs-agent-loses-finger-in-minneapolis-chaos/

I guess he should be thankful the rioter didn’t try to run him over and didn’t draw a concealed weapon. I wonder if a bonus is earned for biting off a finger?

[David Nieporent]

The agent was carrying a gun, so by definition it was self-defense.

[Riva]

A good spot to repost our Fun Fact of the day:

Other states have more ICE arrests but no such incidents because officials there cooperate with federal law enforcement rather than urging public resistance and ignoring violent organized agitators. https://x.com/Geiger_Capital/status/2015313021208330636

[Kazinski]

Another tragic incident.

I have family members who demonstrate against ICE, But as far as I know they don't go anyfurther than wave signs from freeway overpases.

But I will definitely recommend they don't try to obstuct Federal officers in the performance of their duties, and even if they are that foolhardy, definitely do not go armed when they are doing so.

[Estragon]

“I will definitely recommend they don't try to obstruct”

I think we should call this the Scott Bessent.

[Bwaaah]

You can call it the I'm-Not-Looking-To-Fuck-With-Cops contingent. It's large. And it's not finding any of this confusing.

[ducksalad]

Bwaaah, I agree with you this limited extent:

If I had a friend in, say, Venezuela or Iran, I would also advise them not to fuck with cops or paramilitaries. If they felt compelled to go out and make their opinions known, they should not get too close, not get physical, and jeebus do not bring a gun. If their co-demonstrators do any of those things, the best strategy is to leave and protest somewhere else at some other time.

However, neither of us would find it "confusing" to decide who are the bad guys, even if the sound advice above is not followed. We would have similar opinions about any POS who said someone shot by the Venezuelan or Iranian authorities was "asking for it" because they failed to be submissive enough.

[Kazinski]

I wouldn't try obstructing cops in Canada, or Mexico, or UK either, especially while armed.

[Harry S]

“Obstructing” masked ICE agents who knock a woman who annoys them to the ground is an offense worthy of a face full of pepper spray and a beat down by five or six agents. Got it. And if they find a gun on you while you are prone and remove it, they are justified in firing 10 bullets into your prone body. Check. And then the President should defame you and federal agents should obstruct local and state officials from investigating the incident. Ok. Just so we are clear.

[Bwaaah]

That the agents were "masked," that the person you described was a "woman," that she was "annoying"...none of those facts are relevant.

Why did you leave out the reason they physically repelled her? Why do you assert the irrelevant, non-justifiable non-reasons as having been the reasons?

I know you feel serious about what happened. But you're not much about what happened, and pretty much all about how it feels to you (and a lot of other people). It is so noted...over, and over, and over again.

[Magister]

That the particular case was a woman is not relevant, except that a man might be more inclined to go to her assistance out of some sense of chivalry. Masked is relevant, as hiding their identity is a core ICE practice, whether it's to heighten the terror level or to avoid accountability. Annoying is relevant, as it identifies the maximum amount of justification the ICE agents had to attack her physically.

That they shot a man who possessed a gun that they already took away, and that the president and his subordinates immediately lied about the incident, are exactly what happened and what should appall anyone who is not deeply in the cult.

[Joe_dallas]

Mag - there is a lot more to the story than just the last 5 minutes

He is an active member of the protest group
He came armed with a gun with a 21 bullet magazine
He came with a second magazine.
He came without identification.
He actively interfered with federal law enforcement.
He chose to actively resist arrest.

Did the officers know that he only took one gun when he reached into his pocket?

Far too much is unknown , the actions prior to the event doesnt look favorable to the lefts story line.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Why did you leave out the reason they physically repelled her? Why do you assert the irrelevant, non-justifiable non-reasons as having been the reasons?"

Best I can tell from the news reports, CBP had physical confrontations with two people, first a woman and second someone with an orange backpack. I say "woman" because that's what's being reported, nothing about the two people, gender etc., is obvious to me. It's not clear what the confrontations were about, or what led to them. The reason they physically repelled her? Don't know.

The government (Noem, et al) are claiming that the confrontations were the result of these people (woman and backpack guy) obstructing a legitimate enforcement action but I see no reason to accept their assertions as they are clearly lying about some of what happened. We will see, one would hope.

[Bwaaah]

Likening the doings of ICE, and its risks to people who simply express opposition to it, to the doings of the Iranian government and its risks to people who simply express opposition to it, is stupid.

You are not. Surely you see that that analogy is weak hyperbole? No? (I don't know if I'd believe you if you said "no.")

[Magister]

The same analogy would have applied to civil rights protests in the 1960s. Again, it's not confusing to see which side is the bad guys, even if some protesters did not follow the good advice on when and how to protest. (The advice to never protest ever is not good advice.)

[ducksalad]

If you remember the previous round of protests in Iran, it was triggered by a woman killed by the police.

Contrary to the spin here, she was not executed for failure to wear a hijab. In fact, the usual penalty for failure to wear a hijab is being told sternly to put one on. The next level up would be an arrest, and if it is submitted to meekly, the penalty would be a fine or a brief jail sentence.

She chose not to be meek and obedient, instead she decided to struggle with the cops. The cops got angry and decided to give her a beating that ended up being fatal.

Ali Bwaaah, pro-regime commenter, would say she fucked around and found out. He would say the cops were merely enforcing the law. He might even get snarky and point out that the US has laws requiring women to cover various parts of their bodies, and that in the US women are not allowed to physically fight the cops either.

Ali Salad, a normal person, would say that even if the law requires a hijab, that law is not important enough to kill people, even if they are resisting or interfering with officers. If it gets to that level, the proper thing to do is back off.

Yeah, there are US laws against being a peaceful, productive person who doesn't have a permit to exist. There are US laws against women going topless. I think both laws should either be repealed entirely or reformed. However, I concede they are the law and the government can enforce them within reasonable bounds.

But when public opposition to enforcement gets to the point that enforcement requires killing citizens in the streets, any decent person would say back off. A decent person who is a xenophobe a xenophobe (immigration) or a prude (topless laws) within normal bounds would say, yeah, I want to enforce the law but not if people are going to die over it. My preferences aren't that strong.

What are reasonable bounds for enforcing minor, non-violent "crimes" against cultural preferences?

- No violations of due process or civil liberties, or creating special exceptions to either. Maximum due process and maximum civil liberties.
- No killing people.
- No lying by public officials.

If you need to do those things your stupid law should give way.

[Sarcastr0]

You can call it the I'm-Not-Looking-To-Fuck-With-Cops contingent

Bwaaah shits on MLK's whole deal, right here.

Does he even have coherent worldview, or is it just resenting whatever liberals are for?

[Kazinski]

MLK preached non-vio!ence. He would never countence bringing a gun to a demonstration, or resisting arrest, or interfering with officers.

That's why he won, and has his own holiday.

MLK's whole deal had nothing to do with violent resistance, or fucking with cops, he was arrested about 30 times, and was never charged with resisting arrest.

[Josh R]

Pretti interfered with officers only to help a woman they shoved to the ground. He did not resist arrest. Apart from the gun, MLK would be proud of him.

Are you going to condemn the administration for their bald-faced lies calling him a domestic terrorist who wanted to massacre agents? Or you going to double down on your refusal to condemn (and IIRC outright belief) in the bald-faced lie that Good tried to run over an agent?

[Absaroka]

"Apart from the gun, MLK would be proud of him."

FWIW, MLK once applied for a carry permit in Alabama. For some odd reason the sheriff decided he wasn't a suitable candidate.

[Kazinski]

You kind of miss that the woman he was 'helping' was herself obstructing federal officers.

Tryimg to paint an armed man trying to help a woman commit a crime as a victim is quite a take.

[Josh R]

Assuming for the sake of argument she was violating the law and the agents acted within the law, Pretti is still morally justified in helping her (good enough for MLK). That makes him a victim.

Are you going to condemn the administration for their bald-faced lies calling him a domestic terrorist who wanted to massacre agents? Or you going to double down on your refusal to condemn (and IIRC outright belief) in the bald-faced lie that Good tried to run over an agent?

Or, are you going to duck the questions again?

[MarkJawz]

He's morally justified in helping someone break the law? That only logically follows if you assume the law is unjust. Is that the argument you're making?

[Josh R]

The way in which the woman was treated was immoral even if the law was just.

[bernard11]

You kind of miss that the woman he was 'helping' was herself obstructing federal officers.

I didn't see that in the video.

Trying to paint an armed man trying to help a woman commit a crime as a victim is quite a take.

It seems he was trying to provide some sort of medical assistance. He neither used nor brandished his gun. Painting him as "an armed man trying to help a woman commit a crime as a victim" is quite a take.

Even if everything you say is true - it isn't - there was zero justification for the shooting. Eight agents couldn't figure out how to handcuff a now unarmed Pretti?

You are just being silly here, and trying to justify murder with a bunch of minor crap.

[David Nieporent]

He wasn't trying to help her commit a crime. He was trying to help her after she was assaulted by ICE CBP.

[MarkJawz]

MLK was a philander, a plagiarist, and all-around stupid man.

Only because he was black is he lauded.

[not guilty]

I have family members who demonstrate against ICE, But as far as I know they don't go anyfurther than wave signs from freeway overpases.

But I will definitely recommend they don't try to obstuct Federal officers in the performance of their duties, and even if they are that foolhardy, definitely do not go armed when they are doing so.

So your relatives' supposed Second Amendment rights are not a hill you are willing for them to die on? What happened to the "cold, dead hands" trope? Does that hit too close to home here?

Are you worried about your MAGA card being revoked, Kazinski?

Worship of the beloved popgun routinely demands human sacrifices.

[Kazinski]

I am not sure what the second amendment has to do with it. Even the most ardent competent 2nd Amendment advocate would advise if you are going someplace where you indend to break the law do not go armed.

If you are armed then rigorously follow the instructions of law enforcement, and do not resist. You can always sue later if you think you're rights were violated.

Even if you successfully "defend" yourself from law officers with your weapon then you will likely go to jail for the rest of your life.

The point of going armed is to increase your chances of survival from crime, anyone with half a brain should realize going armed when intending to confront law enforcement in the performance of their duties is going to vastly decrease your chances of survival, and I am sure that truism is supported by history and tradition.

[not guilty]

Kazinski, do you actually mean to tell us that you regard your relatives' continued existence to be more important to you than their God-given, absolute right to carry popguns whenever and wherever they live and breathe?

Whatever happened to fealty to Charlton Heston's "from my cold, dead hands!" blather? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORYVCML8xeE Are you going squishy?

Actually, that shtick has never made sense to me. If someone is so intent on disarming another person that he is willing to commit murder, why on earth would he wait until the corpse's hands grow cold?

[LexAquilia]

How on Earth did you draw that inference?

[Michael P]

Of course you think Charlton Heston's line is all about you, the prospective gun-grabber. It's not.

[not guilty]

If you are armed then rigorously follow the instructions of law enforcement, and do not resist. You can always sue later if you think you're rights were violated.

Even if you successfully "defend" yourself from law officers with your weapon then you will likely go to jail for the rest of your life.

From the rhetoric on these comment threads, I thought that in Gun Nut Land the highest utility of keeping and bearing popguns is to be able to resist oppressive governmental action.

Have you gone squishy, Kazinski?

[Kazinski]

No I'm just not a nut. Gun or otherwise.

[LexAquilia]

If you lived in an oppressive regime, like some Leftwing nation, would you want a right to bare arms, or no?

[Sylvie1]

Is someone proposing a ban on sleeveless tops? I hadn't seen anything about that.

[David Nieporent]

would you want a right to bare arms, or no?

That would surely depend on climate change.

[LexAquilia]

Voltage (tm)!!

[not guilty]

"If you lived in an oppressive regime, like some Leftwing nation, would you want a right to bare arms, or no?"

I have represented strip clubs, protecting their right to bare arms or whatever other body parts they choose to bare.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Motivated reasoning prompts gun-advocate Kazinski to tell a truth which nothing could have pried out of him previously—that going armed increases the danger to the person doing it, along with endangering everyone else. Kazinski doesn't realize he did that because he is fully committed to the lie that ICE officers were not engaged in criminal conduct.

The woman who got shoved was criminally assaulted, Kazinski. She was so far from intending a crime she had no inkling the attack was coming. Watch how her head jerked violently when she was shoved. When Pretti tried to go to her aid, he was criminally assaulted, then murdered.

Unless Pretti's status as a licensed gun carrier was previously known to ICE officers who may have been stalking him personally, his gun played no role to inculpate Pretti. Apparently from available videos, Pretti never tried to use a gun to defend himself or the woman ICE assaulted.

Gun carriers everywhere, who, unlike Pretti, are almost always too cowardly in the midst of armed violence to do anything except hide or flee, are not the source of public safety gun proponents say they are. They are a persistent source of public danger. In fairness, that conduct by armed bystanders may be no more than good judgment. When an armed bystander unexpectedly finds himself amidst unexpected gunplay, there is no reason to suppose any decision to use a gun could be made reasonably. For all the concealed carrier can know, the person he first sees shooting could be an undercover law enforcement officer returning fire.

Pretti, apparently heroically, tried instead to intervene without use of a gun he may, or may not have been carrying. Perhaps evidence will turn up to show someone identifiably connected to Pretti who confirms that the gun ICE photographed with no context was actually present at the scene, and was actually a gun owned by Pretti. Until then, we cannot even be sure he was armed at all.

Even if Pretti was acting while unarmed, there is zero reason to suppose the Trump administration would not forge evidence to connect him to a particularly sinister-looking gun brought to the scene by ICE, or even photographed somewhere else afterward. That is speculation, of course, but speculation which ought to continue if the only evidence to prove the gun belonged to Pretti relies entirely on government sources who refuse to testify under oath.

For the benefit of those naïve in the ways of law enforcement, an untraceable gun carried by law enforcement for a purpose to incriminate an inconveniently dead but unarmed suspect is termed a, “throwaway.” I have no way to know how common that practice is. I had it explained to me by a senior prosecutor in a large urban jurisdiction. The prosecutor told me the way it ought to be done was to have a prosecutor carry the untraceable gun to the crime scene. A cop should never do it. The prosecutor showed me a small revolver kept for that purpose. That empowered any cop in trouble for killing an unarmed suspect to get needed defense evidence just by calling that prosecutor to the crime scene. Thus, no need for every cop to carry around what amounted to evidence of intent to commit a crime.

I was offered that explanation and demonstration while working under a presumption of confidentiality as a journalist. I still feel ethically bound to keep that person’s identity secret, but only because I never became aware of any likely use of a throwaway by that prosecutor or any other. Thus, I am not aware that any crime was committed. If I had learned that prosecutor was involved in such a case, I would consider my ethical vow of confidentiality dissolved. That was all long ago, and as far as I know, that prosecutor is dead.

To anticipate objections, it is not a sufficient safeguard for credibility to be skeptical of an entire narrative, and thus decide to accept or reject a narrative whole. A person intent on dispassionate evaluation of a controversial narrative needs to apply a test of competent evidence at every critical point in the narrative, and to withhold judgment if that test cannot be satisfied. Thus, I remain open to correction on the question whether Pretti was a victim of a long-premeditated murder by ICE officers, and actually consider it unlikely, but still plausible based on a context of rampant abuses of the truth by the Trump administration.

I have little doubt left after watching the videos that there ought to be a trial of multiple ICE officers for some degree of criminal homicide in the Pretti case.

[hobie]

Let me get this straight:

Hayseeds: 'Carrying around gun is good."
Also Hayseeds: 'Carrying around gun is bad."

Well, which-the-fuck is it?

[Brett Bellmore]

It's "Guns are a tool, they're not the only tool. Don't use a screwdriver to drive nails, just because you like screwdrivers."

[Sarcastr0]

Oh I look forwards to bringing this analysis up the next time we talk gun regulation!

[jay.tee]

Are you being deliberately obtuse, hobie?

Carrying a gun is neither “good” nor “bad”; it’s exercising a Constitutionally guaranteed right at the discretion of individuals.

Most people are more risk adverse when they carry because they recognize the gravity of using a firearm.

If you’re going to commit a crime, being armed ratchets up your risk and to those around you.

[hobie]

I'm still waiting for you hayseeds to address the 900lb Kyle Rittenhouse in the room.

[CountmontyC]

You mean the person who after being confronted by three crazed psychos attempted to withdraw from the situation without firing a shot only to be chased by those same psychos who were threatening him with bodily harm? Who when he could not retreat any further safely defended himself killing two psychos and made the final one a lefty for life? That Kyle Rittenhouse?

[Life of Brian]

I, for one, am still waiting for you to actually say what you feel is the cogent analogy between the two events, rather than just smugly throwing it out there and leaving us to guess what you're thinking.

[hobie]

Well, Kyle was strutting like an obnoxious ass around the police with his AR, ostensibly to be of help to the people in the area. He blows away three people. And after all that the police didn't lay a finger on him, and now he's a MAGA hero working the grift circuit.

Now comes the MN nurse, strutting around like an obnoxious ass with a gun somewhere under his coat, ostensibly there to help the people in the area. He blows away no one. He does NOT aggress on the police in any way. And the police fire ten rounds into him...possibly with his own gun. No hero. No grift circuit.

[CountmontyC]

Hobie. Kyle made no threats against anyone let alone attacked anyone prior to being attacked himself and even attempted to retreat from any confrontation. He was followed and attacked by three people who had no legal authority to do so at which time he defended himself.
This male nurse on the other hand interfered with duly constituted law enforcement who were performing their duties.
The two events have decidedly different facts.

[hobie]

Capital Interferrence. What statute is that?

But seriously, just keep shooting Americans in the streets like dogs (HT Noem). It's gonna play great in the midterms

[Life of Brian]

So other than the fact that Rittenhouse didn't have any sort of run-in with the police at all and Pretti first tried to wade in and frustrate one arrest and then tried to out-muscle about 5 officers to frustrate his own arrest, they're totes the same because there was a gun involved. That's about what I figured.

[bernard11]

Most people are more risk adverse (sic) when they carry because they recognize the gravity of using a firearm.

Doubtful, but I'm sure that's what you want to believe.

[Absaroka]

I won't speculate on a percentage, but the sentiment to e.g., not honk at a jerk driver when carrying is a pretty common sentiment. I get than some people have the view that anyone going to the trouble to legally carry must be spoiling for a fight, and I suppose there must be some, but I haven't met one in real life, and I know lots of people who carry.

On a related note, religiously wearing seatbelts, replacing burned out headlights, and keeping the washer fluid topped up don't usually predict reckless driving.

[Magister]

It seems common sense that an argument between two people carrying lethal weapons is more likely to escalate to a lethal outcome than an argument between two people who do not have lethal weapons at hand. The evidence for a "weapons effect" is mixed, but common sentiments and other anecdotes don't really rebut it.

[CountmontyC]

It's called not being an idiot. Your right to own and operate a motor vehicle doesn't mean you should drive a hundred miles per hour through a residential neighborhood and that there will be no consequences for doing so. Kazinski basically said that if you are going to attend a protest and intend to confront law enforcement that it would not be a good idea to carry a concealed firearm because law enforcement will respond to such threats with potentially deadly force. Furthermore if you believe that the law enforcement officers are crazed psychos you really should be prepared to find out if the afterlife exists. And as Brett points out a gun is a tool and if a person intends to use one they better know how to use it properly and be prepared to face the consequences.

[bernard11]

Given that ICE actually took his gun away, what was the threat that justified potentially ( I think you mean actually) deadly force, or even non-lethal physical abuse?

The guy was on the ground, unarmed, and they were beating and punching him.

[Life of Brian]

There are lots of videos out now and I may have missed one of the more recent ones, but none of the earlier ones I watched allow for more than 1-2 seconds between the time the undercover agent secured the gun and the time the other officer shot Pretti.

Real life doesn't happen in the frame-by-frame slo mo that the armchair quarterback contingent is agonizing over, and the people involved don't have some sort of hive mind that allows them to perfectly synchronize in that short of a time frame in the midst of that sort of chaos.

[Josh R]

OK. Let's have an investigation before concluding (as the administration did) the shooting was justified because Pretti was a domestic terrorist brandishing a weapon which he brought with him to massacre law enforcement.

[Life of Brian]

Of course, and as I imagine you know, none of that overwrought rhetoric has to be true for the judgment call they made in the heat of the moment to be justified.

[Josh R]

The "overwrought" rhetoric is part and parcel of Miller's plan to instill fear into people. Calling it overwrought is woefully inadequate. It's gaslighting that normies will rebel against. You should rebelling against it.

[Life of Brian]

Meh. The bar for instillation of fear was long ago ratcheted up way beyond a few exaggerated verbs and adjectives. Get back with me when Miller stands in front of military officers in a gates-of-Hell set and says all ICE protestors are directly threatening our lives rather than just their own.

[CountmontyC]

I said potentially because the potentially deadly force was still in the future when the multiple decisions Pretti made that led to him getting lead poisoning. Furthermore I was speaking in general terms since I was referencing Kazinski's post where he points out that a right should be exercised in an intelligent and responsible manner. That is the conservative position. Yes you have the right to a firearm and the right to carry but like any right if you abuse that right and try and harm others by committing illegal acts there are consequences and that includes loss of life. Take note that it is behaving irresponsibly that leads to consequences not merely the possession of the firearm. As an example it was Pretti's interference in a law enforcement action that led to his being shot. If he had not interfered in a law enforcement action he would almost certainly still be alive

[Kazinski]

Idiots carrying guns is bad.

Someone going someplace with the intention to obstruct federal officials while armed is an idiot.

Committing any crime while armed is idiotic, it opens you up to enormous multiplicitive penalties even if it doesn't leave you dead.

[Dr. Ed 2]

In 1789, it was well established that one did not have the right to carry guns in the midst of a rebellion.

[hobie]

Ed yesterday: Not keeping gun warm was reckless
Ed today: Carrying gun during Whiskey Rebellion also reckless.
Ed tomorrow: Code of Hammurabi says no carrying during equinox

[David Nieporent]

In 1789, it was well established that one did not have the right to carry guns in the midst of a rebellion.

That would have been news to the patriots who had just led one against England a little over a decade earlier.

[hobie]

Turning Point USA: founded by Charlie Kirk and Bill Montgomery in part to promote guns and, later in 2020, to rage against vaccines.

Bill Montgomery - killed by COVID
Charlie Kirk - killed by gun

There's them sacrifices

[jay.tee]

They deserved to die because of their ideological positions? That’s one of the most illiberal positions I’ve seen posted here.

[hobie]

Clint Eastwood: "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it."

[Riva]

I suspect it’s simply that his relatives are not paid to obstruct federal law enforcement. They sound like the usual useful idiots that seem to populate the left.

[JohnSmith97]

I saw overpass protestors on the way home from work yesterday, protesting the "IEC" Don't know why they are so angry about the International Electrotechnical Commission, but they wanted them to leave.

[myself]

The trouble is that good people find it difficult to stand by and watch as a group of thugs assault someone.

[Commenter_XY]

Truman you're not.

[LexAquilia]

Its like you think there aren't 50 videos proving you to be a rebel liar.

Most of us have seen the video where the rebel got justice. Your version is the reddit bluesky lie that keeps the Democrats frothy and angry.

[AmosArch]

He walked up and started a fight with ICE carrying a gun (in a holster where it can easily be drawn in a split second) who were in the process of struggling with another protestor who also had the bright idea to pick a fight with them.

Maybe don't do that if you want to live.

If I was or any sensible person saw police struggling with my friend in the past before ICE was even a twinkle in anybody's eye I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to escalate the situation but charging in with a gun.

Why are we living in opposite world where leftists think it is safe and legal to run over and charge at law enforcement with weapons and break into private places to scream at others?

[Michael P]

Why are we living in opposite world where leftists think it is safe and legal to run over and charge at law enforcement with weapons and break into private places to scream at others?

They've been conditioned to never think that they might be wrong. And also to think that the ends justify the means.

[Bwaaah]

They play it like a case of good people against bad people, when it's a case of people doing obviously dangerous things that go wrong.

[LexAquilia]

They've been conditioned to believe their moral choices are so correct that laws or others rights do not matter.

[JohnSmith97]

The Chris Rock video "How not to get your ass kicked by the police" does not apply to angry white leftists. They are special.

[Mr. Bumble]

Privilege isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[Bwaaah]

To pick a fight that results in getting your ass killed, and to then be exalted as a model citizen for having been there for that act?

No, privilege isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's more like being the most devastatingist, losingist stooge in some fucked up people's show...err...I mean...a 2026 civil rights protest.

[hobie]

Heh. Now the hayseeds are anti-gun and the Libs pro. The mind boggles at the reach of MAGA rationalizing.

[CountmontyC]

You and yours are not pro gun. You are just anti-consequences for the people on your side who commit violence.

[Kazinski]

Ask any conservative they will tell you they only support law abiding adults going armed.

Civil disobedience, while sometimes justified, is intentionally not abiding by the law.

If you can find any conservative, ever that has claimed that there is right to be armed while intending to commit a criminal act, I would be very surprised, and that standard meets the history and tradition test too.

[AmosArch]

The 2nd Amendment gives you the right to carry. I never recalled conservatives saying it gives you the guarantee that you will emerge unscathed taking it to fight the police. Or is there some proud tradition of conservative sympathy vs liberal outrage for armed criminals attacking the police. Like I said you guys are coming up with some strange backwards memories here. Maybe you should get your head checked.

[myself]

He didn't start a fight, he stood between a violent ICE officer and a protestor that officer was assaulting.

That same ICE officer then watched him get disarmed... and then decided to execute him.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Harry, I think the underlying issue was the ongoing rebellion.
Police officers making an arrest shouldn’t have to deal with outsiders coming into the middle of the situation, shouldn’t have to deal with traffic going through the middle of it, etc.

It’s not a police state as much as lack of police who should’ve been there and blocked the area off.

[Michael P]

This story reads as true as the initial leftist accounts of Nicholas Sandmann and his classmates. As Wikipedia generously puts it, "Other recordings of the incident showed that initial media reports had omitted details."

[MarkJawz]

Have you looked at the pictures of Pretti? He looks like a tool, and he was a male nurse. What a fairy.

[Kazinski]

Problems conservatives don't have:

"I Let My Wife Have an Affair. Do I Have to Console Her Now That It’s Over?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/magazine/wife-affair-ethics.html

[Mr. Bumble]

All the news that's fit to print has a new meaning.

[Estragon]

Yes, kaz. We talked about this the other day. It’s about dependency and control.

[Kazinski]

Sorry, I haven't been hanging around the threads much, and there isn't much incentive to wade through them to catch up.

[Estragon]

lol ok buddy

[LexAquilia]

Not being a cuck means you have control issues!

Sincerely,
Estracuck

[Malika la Maize]

Problems conservatives don't have:

Keep telling yourself that.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"I Let My Wife Have an Affair. Do I Have to Console Her Now That It’s Over?"

Betteridge's law of headlines

[TwelveInchPianist]

Subhead: "While she is grieving about it, I feel relieved"

That's OK, I'm sure she felt relieved plenty of times.

[bloocow2]

(Duplicate comment)

[Estragon]

I am grateful that so many have made their thoughts abundantly clear yesterday and today. I ask the ultras: how do you think this ends for you? ICE shot a nurse in the streets. In the words of C_xy: belly up.

[bloocow2]

Zero immigration and a tropical paradise

[Kazinski]

That's a strange question, but the answer is its not going to affect me at all.

Although my State AG did suggest recently that more people should commit suicide by ICE.

"Arizona AG called to resign after comments on ICE and ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws'

https://www.azfamily.com/2026/01/24/arizona-ag-called-resign-after-comments-ice-stand-your-ground-laws/

[Estragon]

“its not going to affect me at all.“

This could not be more perfect.

[Kazinski]

Glad I could help.

[Bwaaah]

I'm a moderate. It affects me very, very little.

How many people died under tragic circumstances in the U.S. yesterday? How much does that "affect" you?

Get serious, in the non-performative manner.

[Magister]

Bwaaah gives up pretending to be a liberal. Dishonesty is what gets Bwaaah the criticism that he pretends is from his right wing political stances.

[Bwaaah]

nyaahhh...Magister insulted me...nyaaaahhhh

[Magister]

It's not an insult to report accurately Bwaaah's past dishonesty. I am looking forward to Bwaaah finally owning up to his right wing beliefs rather than trying to bolster his arguments with false claims about his political leaning.

[Estragon]

“At 9:05 AM CT, as DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien wanted for violent assault, an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun, seen here. The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming

Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, an agent fired defensive shots. Medics on scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject but was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect also had 2 magazines and no ID—this looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.”

This is the story. Reconcile it with the videos if you feel compelled to.

[Mr. Bumble]

Does "you can't fix stupid" mean anything to you?
Why would someone put themselves in this position, especially in light of the ongoing situation in Minneapolis?

[Estragon]

I am grateful for this response. This is one of the many varieties of excuses we will see over the next few days for this person’s murder. Excuse it if you must. But ask yourself why.

[Mr. Bumble]

I'm not excusing anything. I take no joy in someone's death but I am also not so stupid as to insert myself in a dangerous situation.

[Estragon]

“insert myself in a dangerous situation.“

Excuses! Do you even read what you write?

[Mr. Bumble]

See Kaz's comment above about going armed into the middle of police activity.

[Estragon]

What about open carry do you object to here

[LexAquilia]

That is wasn't wise to physically tussle with LEO while armed.

[Malika la Maize]

I really think our resident white supremacist is ESL.

[Bwaaah]

Estragon: "What about open carry do you object to here"

What moronic behaviors do you think are implied by open carry?

You really do act like you're talking to stupid.

[Estragon]

“ to insert myself”

Yes, Bumble, we know you’re sensible enough to just do what you’re told.

[Mr. Bumble]

...and for you to believe what your told.

[Estragon]

Defend what you feel you must.

How do you think this is going to end for you people? Murder nurses and call them terrorists. Like calling people bugs, i am certain that is a long term winning strategy. God bless and good luck with that.

[Mr. Bumble]

"You people"? Says a lot about you.

[Estragon]

What does it say

[Bwaaah]

"What does it say?"

That you view half the country as one monolithic hive mind, and that it is your expectation that they will ultimately receive some kind of collective retribution.

[Estragon]

Well, Hillary Clinton got severely dragged when she said some folks need to be deprogrammed. But just look at these comments— including yours. Maybe she wasn’t so far off after all.

[David Nieporent]

That you view half the country as one monolithic hive mind

MAGA is a cult. They are not a full "half the country," but monolithic hive mind sounds about right. They have no thoughts or ideas of their own: only what Donald Trump tells them. (As I noted last week, look at Greenland: not one of them had given one millisecond's worth of consideration to the island, let alone thinking it was important, until Trump told them to, and then they all decided it was so crucial for national security that we needed to go to war with an ally to steal it.)

[Bwaaah]

Among the things I've come to appreciate about you, David, is that unlike many, you aren't centered around beating around proverbial bushes, feigning humanism, spitting resentment.

You take into account what has been said. You don't waste time disagreeing about everything including the things upon which we agree. You pretty consistently get to a point...your point. (That's more than many seem able to do around here.)

You put out relatively little trash talk, despite your shameless oppositional positions (few of which I'd call "without merit").

I don't know that anybody here presents a sharper defense of American liberalism, including the American system of government, than you do. I'm pretty sure it's not your intent to do so. But there it is, in all its ugliness and for the much that it's worth (at least in my view).

I think that's all good. Thanks.

[Frank Drackman]

Being a Nurse doesn't give you free reign to harass Law Enforcement.
And enough with the "Saint Nurse" Bullshit, Nurse Ratchet was a Nurse, Nurse Annie ("Misery"), Nurse Cullen in "the Good Nurse", Nurses Bridgett and Miranda from American Horror Story, Nurse Noakes from "Cloud Atlas",
Oh, those are just "Fictional Nurses"??? (Cullen was real) check out Heather Pressdee, who got 3 consecutive life terms for murdering Nursing Home patients with Insulin (it's NOT the way to commit the "Perfect Murder") only convicted of 3 murders, suspected in over 50.

Frank

[Bwaaah]

Little Michael Brown was a good boy, all dressed up in his cap and gown, ready to graduate high school.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Nurse Ratchet was a Nurse"

Who the fuck is "Nurse Ratchet." Is that the character portrayed by Lois Fleisher in "Won Flue Over the Cuckold's Breast?"

[not guilty]

"I'm not excusing anything. I take no joy in someone's death . . ."

Is that as true as everything else you have said, Mr. Bumble?

[Mr. Bumble]

Am I under oath you fucking retard?

[not guilty]

Does that matter as to whether you tell the truth or not?

[Frank Drackman]

You've never lied? and don't give me the Legal Bullshit about Perjury has to involve something "Material", I mean a good old fashioned Bullshitting Fib, like when Sleepy Joe claimed he was recruited to play Foobawl at Navy, or Tampon-Tim claiming he carried an M16 in Combat, or Danang-Dick saying he was a Vietnam Vet.

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

As Dr. House so often said: Everybody lies.

[Mr. Bumble]

Probably does to you since you're implying that my comments aren't truthful.

[not guilty]

I am asking whether being under oath or not matters to whether you tell the truth, Mr. Bumble. That is a simple yes or no question.

[Michael P]

Was not guilty born this kind of asshole, or did he have to work for it?

[Dr. Ed 2]

I say we give him the Darwin award.

[bernard11]

I do agree with Bumble that being anywhere near ICE is a dangerous situation. You never know what an armed, masked thug who has been told he is immune from criminal prosecution might do.

[jb]

Regardless of whether you think the shooting is justified, does it seem like a situation in which he wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement?

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm having trouble coming up with a good scenario where somebody with a concealed carry permit deliberately leaves the house with their gun, but leaving behind all ID including the permit. As somebody else remarked, that made it illegal carry even having the permit.

[jb]

Are you trying to assert that yes, it seemed like he wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement based on the fact he didn't have his wallet with him?

[Brett Bellmore]

No, I'm asserting that he was up to no good, but I don't know the details of the no good he was up to.

[jb]

Serious question: have you ever forgotten to bring your wallet with you in a situation where it turns out you were supposed to have it? (e.g., driving a car)

[Stella Link's Ghost]

Things Brett doesn't know:

That Pretti didn't have his identification, including LTC permit, with him.

That Pretti intentionally left his identification behind.

Anything to do with Pretti's motivation, what "he was up to" (to with what he was up?).

Never mind any of that, we can rest assured that Big Brain Brett is correct in asserting that Pretti had some nefarious intent.

[David Nieporent]

First, there's no reason to believe that he didn't have ID; as far as I know, that comes from the same source that claims he attacked CBP with a gun.

Second, since when do you accept that a state can legitimately put conditions on carry? Was there a history and tradition in the U.S. in 1789 of requiring driver's licenses if people wanted to bear arms?

Third, I've heard that people do sometimes forget their wallets when they go out without having any nefarious intent at all.

[Kazinski]

I think it is legal to carry a gun in my state without an ID, in Minnesota it is not.

It never a good idea to break the law when you are armed, even dumb laws, or even unconstitutional ones, for instance I think California's gun laws are unconstitutional, but when I travel through California I keep my gun locked and unloaded in a gun safe, per.California law, nor to I bring any guns into California that are illegal under California law.

[David Nieporent]

I think it is legal to carry a gun in my state without an ID, in Minnesota it is not.

As I researched and analyzed a little bit earlier today, that is not even correct.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"that is not even correct"

What difference would it have made if it were correct? If he had been carrying without documentation and it were illegal, would that have changed anything about the justification for the shooting? The feds had no knowledge, and could not have known, prior to the shooting.

It's sort of like Saint Ashli of Babbitt. Whether or not she was technically armed with a knife has nothing to do with anything.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"As I researched and analyzed a little bit earlier today, that is not even correct."

You're seriously going with the claim that it's not illegal to carry without your ID and permit, it's just illegal to not have your ID and permit if you're carrying?

[David Nieporent]

Yes. And also it's not illegal to not have your ID and permit if you're carrying, either. As I quoted from the Minnesota code:

(b) A citation issued for violating paragraph (a) must be dismissed if the person demonstrates, in court or in the office of the arresting officer, that the person was authorized to carry the pistol at the time of the alleged violation.

(Paragraph (a) is the provision that requires the carrying of a permit/ID.)

[TwelveInchPianist]

Sigh. Just because you can avoid punishment under certain circumstances doesn't mean what you did wasn't illegal.

[Absaroka]

" Just because you can avoid punishment under certain circumstances doesn't mean what you did wasn't illegal"

Well, OK. Fred gets pulled over. Whoops, he has a valid driver's license, but he forgot his wallet at home.

A scuffle ensues, and the officer shoots Fred a few times, in the back, FWIW. Your analysis of whether the shooting is justified turns on him forgetting his wallet at home?

[TwelveInchPianist]

No, and my analysis of this case doesn't turn on whether or not he had his permit with him.

People keep claiming he was carrying legally, and that's not the case. But the legality of his carrying has nothing to do with the justification.

[David Nieporent]

Sigh. Just because you can avoid punishment under certain circumstances doesn't mean what you did wasn't illegal.

You misunderstand. It's not that one can avoid punishment, but that the charge itself must be dismissed.

[TwelveInchPianist]

You're claiming that they can charge you with something that's not illegal?

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Second, since when do you accept that a state can legitimately put conditions on carry? Was there a history and tradition in the U.S. in 1789 of requiring driver's licenses if people wanted to bear arms?

Stephen Halbrook's post is forthcoming.

[jay.tee]

No, DHS’s over the top rhetoric helps no one. “Domestic terrorist,” “assassin,” and so forth just serve to rile up everyone when everyone (Trump, Walz, Frey, DHS/ICE leadership, etc.) should be de-escalating.

[JohnSmith97]

The next time the left tries to "deescalate" will be the 1st time..

[jay.tee]

If that’s the case, Trump/Noem/etc. should be publicly calling out “the left” and leveraging it to pressure them to deescalate.

For instance: agree to reduce ICE force levels by half, stop door-to-door operations, and equip every agent with a body camera in exchange for honoring ICE detainers, stopping the inflammatory rhetoric, and supporting ICE with local LE.

[Josh R]

IIRC, you are a Trump supporter. Good for you for calling the administration out even if it is tepid (they are outright lying over and over again).

If ICE detainers came from judicial warrants for violent felons, then ICE deserves local support. But, I think ICE is going after far more than the worst of the worst without relying on judicial warrants.

[jay.tee]

IIRC, you are a Trump supporter

You recall incorrectly

[Josh R]

Perhaps you are a normie from the center-right?

[JohnSmith97]

The vaunted "immigration sanctuary" nonsense that the left is in love with prevents local LEOs from working with ICE/CBP. The left is very proud in creating this situation - especially in MN, since now they get to have their "winter of love" just a few years after their "summer of love".

When does the left start burning things? Or will it go straight to ambushing ICE/CBP?

[TwelveInchPianist]

"No, DHS’s over the top rhetoric helps no one."

This is certainly true. Noem et al are doing a terrible job at handling PR.

[LexAquilia]

Lines up with what I saw. The rebel tried to obstruct officers, assaulted them, then fired first.

[Dr. Ed 2]

He got what he deserved.

[bernard11]

Fuck you, Ed.

[Riva]

Why was an armed protester on site to aggressively obstruct an active ICE operation? Reconcile that with the narrative of an organic peaceful popular movement.

[jay.tee]

Even holding what you said as true, he didn’t deserve to die.

Like other incidents, everyone involved made a series of mistakes or bad decisions that culminated in death. Just one de-escalation would have saved a life.

Seems like ICE has some serious explaining to do if, as the videos appear to show, one of their agents had already disarmed him.

[Riva]

I do not hold a version of events that appears to assume wrongdoing on the part of ICE as true, especially given the past practices of these violent, organized, (and paid?) agitators when they obstruct federal law enforcement.

[jay.tee]

So it’s not wrongdoing for ICE to disarm then shoot someone?

[Riva]

That would be one of those aforementioned version of events I would not accept as true. One must be patient and understanding when explaining things to useful idiots.

[Kazinski]

Sure it would be. I can't tell what is happening in any of the videos I have seen so far, but that version of events wouldn't surprise me.

Cops, whether local or federal, do overreact in stressful chaotic situations. and when a gun goes off in that kind of situation then it is unlikely to be the last gunshot.

That is why it is so foolish of these ICE activists to confront ICE when they are out apprehending criminals.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"So it’s not wrongdoing for [Border Patrol] to disarm then shoot someone?"

Not necessarily. If someone is armed and fighting, just because one weapon is taken from him doesn't mean he's no longer a threat.

The shooting happened a little bit after the BP agents starting yelling "Gun." A plausible scenario is that the shooter (who may or may not have seen Pretti being disarmed) saw his cell phone in his hand and though it was another weapon.

I'm generally unsympathetic to cops who mistake cell phones for guns, but when the guy is already armed and fighting with cops, he gets a little more leeway.

[windycityattorney]

Why do assume a resident of Minneapolis going about his morning is an 'armed protester on site to aggressively obstruct an active ICE operation'??

How the fuck do you know he didn't live on that street and was getting coffee and donuts at the donut shop he was shot 10ten times in front of after having his weapon taken from him?

You don't know shit; just mindlessly repeat DHS talking points that are desperate to justify the predictable consequences of sending thousands of armed agents into a city that doesn't want them there. The only way to justify it is to lie. Pretend that these roving patrols are 'normal.' That the ICE agents are 'reasonable' and are acting pursuant to their 'training.' That they don't routinely resort to aggression first. That they dispense pepper spray to people's faces at the slightest sign of non immediate compliance.

While DHS may need to lie to contain what could be a terrible political/image or PR fiasco... that don't explain you carrying their buckets of lie water for them.

At some point the buckets will become too heavy. The evidence so overwhelming that the lying won't be effective. The VA nurse is a victim of homicide at the hands of fed agents. That is 100% a fact. We will see if DHS even bothers to investigate themselves and declare themselves innocent as you and others seem to have already done. Tsk tsk.

[Absaroka]

"How the fuck do you know he didn't live on that street and was getting coffee and donuts at the donut shop"

There is video of him standing in the street filming. That's not illegal, doesn't justify shooting, etc, but it doesn't look like going for donuts either.

[jb]

Hmm, hard to say. Lots of people start filming these days when they see something interesting going on--doesn't matter if it's ICE or someone wearing a funny outfit.

Based on what else we know about him, it does seem like there's a reasonable probability he was there to protest or at least observe the ICE officers as opposed to just merely passing by, but basically everything else about the MAGA narrative has proven to be false--he didn't approach ICE officers, they approached him; he didn't assault them, they assaulted him; he didn't fire the first shot, an ICE officer was holding his gun at the time. But you don't see any of the MAGAs that were parroting those lies changing their mind or perspective at all as piece by piece the basis for their original point of view fall apart.

[Riva]

I guess his obstruction of federal law enforcement preceding the shooting kinda calls into question the armed regular joe going out for donuts and coffee story, but you run with that nonsense like the other useful idiots.

Fun fact: Other states have more ICE arrests but no such incidents because officials there cooperate with federal law enforcement rather than urging public resistance and ignoring violent organized agitators. https://x.com/Geiger_Capital/status/2015313021208330636

[David Nieporent]

Why was an armed ICE — actually CBP — agent on scene at all? There was no legitimate need for any active operation.

[Riva]

Has ICE “- actually CBP-“ ever deferred to armed, organized agitators with respect to the need for an enforcement operation? Asking for a useful idiot friend.

[Commenter_XY]

E, it is a very bad idea to impede, obstruct or threaten an LEO performing their job duties. Two people are now dead, from their own stupidity. If there are more stupid people, like Good and Petti, then there are more deaths. That is on them.

You really have to wonder about the mentality (and morality) of people who want to protect illegal aliens who are gangbangers, drug dealers, rapists, child molesters, drunk drivers, etc. from arrest and deportation.

[Estragon]

I am grateful for your comments.

[Commenter_XY]

Don't be. More will die.

[Estragon]

Is that a threat?

[Mr. Bumble]

You're a real fuckwit this morning.

[Estragon]

“This morning” is actually a backhanded compliment. Oopsies! Anyways, you were talking about how this nurse shoulda been shot:

[Mr. Bumble]

"Anyways, you were talking about how this nurse shoulda been shot:"
I was not. Didn't your parents tell you it was wrong to lie?

[LexAquilia]

Right, he mistook you for a White American. Which, where you are from, is the cultural ideal.

[JohnSmith97]

He was just trying to be nice. Most know you are a fuckwit in here every day.

[Commenter_XY]

No E, it is a simple statement of fact. If you obstruct, impede or threaten an LEO performing their job duties, you are risking your life unnecessarily.

Regardless, the detection, detention and deportation of illegal aliens will not stop. Get used to it. There are at least three more years of deportations of illegal alien gangbangers, drug dealers, child molesters, rapists, murderers, drunk drivers, etc. That is also a simple statement of fact.

Cry all you want. Better yet, how about you put your money with your mouth is, and go join your leftist Ice Warrior comrades. You might get yourself a Darwin Award for your trouble.

[Estragon]

I am extremely grateful for these comments

[LexAquilia]

You think you're clever and making some subtle point, but no one gets it but you.

[Malika la Maize]

Normal humans get it. Of course you don’t. Keep licking those Feds’ boots.

[Bwaaah]

Oh, look. It's Malika The Respectful, here to take a dump on 22,000 immigration enforcement officers.

I wonder which uniforms, and which battles, are enumerated on her "Thank You For Your Service" poster.

"Disaffected Liberal" ™

[David Nieporent]

Oh, look. It's Malika The Respectful, here to take a dump on 22,000 immigration enforcement officers.

Won't anyone think about the feelings of the Gestapo?

[Bwaaah]

DMN: "Won't anyone think about the feelings of the Gestapo?"

There you get lazy, about them, me, all of it. Back at you...

"Oh, no! How is any American to evade the wrath of the regime's secret police? They're clearing the streets now, like the IRGC in Iran. The people are retreating in fear, wondering who will be disappeared next. The voice of the opposition is going silent. There is no mercy."

Bring it back to real.

[Sarcastr0]

Bwaah, claimed to be a liberal, then a classical liberal, is so pro-freedom he's defending the government forces shooting people, because those people didn't comply.

But don't call him a MAGA tool!

[Michael P]

I get it. He's vice signaling.

[bernard11]

the detection, detention and deportation of illegal aliens will not stop.

Neither, I suppose, will the murders, which you cheer for.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Darwin Awards…

[bernard11]

What about students, hospital workers, agricultural workers, landscapers, etc.?

What about people who have been here for ten years, working, staying out of trouble,just leading normal lives?

Or do you just not give a shit about any of that? ICE certainly doesn't.

[LexAquilia]

ICE shot a rebel who assaulted them and fired on them.
He got what rebels should get.

[Malika la Maize]

A statue defended by the GOP?

[Glaucomatose]

Seeing as we all know this is false, what does that say about the argument you're trying to make?

[LexAquilia]

I watched the videos and drew my own conclusions. So the argument I am trying to make is "ICE shot a rebel who assaulted them and fired on them.
He got what rebels should get."

HTH

[Glaucomatose]

In other words, you decided you wanted to justify a murder and so you ignored what we all, including you, saw on video. Got it.

[LexAquilia]

If I showed you all the tut tutting from your side when the Right was painting Babbit's shooting as a murder, would you reconsider your attitudes?

[Glaucomatose]

Sorry, you're still mad about Ashli Babbitt so you think it's OK to make up blatantly false claims to justify murdering a nurse who was helping up a woman who was being pepper sprayed?

Okay.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

Besides which, Babbitt was engaged in undeniable terrorist activity.

[Harry S]

Take a look at the photos and videos and extensive analysis. This isn’t a rebellion and Pretti isn’t a rebel. When you think that Pretti is a rebel or insurrectionist and think that the J6 defendants aren’t either, it says more about you and how skewed your views are than it does about the events in question. https://www.wsj.com/us-news/videos-contradict-u-s-account-of-minneapolis-shooting-by-federal-agents-fbe1e488?st=y9FAwd&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[Armchair]

"How do I think this ends".

Scenario 1. Protests die down. ICE does their job, then moves on to another city.

Scenario 2: Protests don't die down. Some people decide to go armed to protests and shoot a few ICE officers, killing one. Trump is forced to call martial law, and bring in the army.

[windycityattorney]

Scenario 3. ICE gets defunded in Congress until Noem is fired. There is a partial govt shutdown until this happens and calls for independent investigations and bi partisan oversight of ICE/border patrol are made.

The operation in MN is halted and the agents sent home. They don't just move to another city en masse to inflict their gestapo tactics on more innocent people. Because someone in the GOP political leadership realizes they are going to get slaughtered in the midterms as they have turned off almost all independents. It might be too late already but they have to turn this around. There is no winning political strategy that caters to only the 20% or so hardcore MAGA base who approve of these inhumane tactics. The numbers simply don't work. So it will be either have the election and lose your ass or find a way to stop the election to prevent the losses that are coming. Do we even need to ask what Stephen Miller will recommend?

[Brett Bellmore]

Is this what they call "wishcasting"?

[Randal]

Let's see what happens in the Senate.

[JohnSmith97]

What can happen? Do you think the (D)s have the votes to do major defunding of DHS?

[Armchair]

"Scenario 3."

Extremely unlikely to basically impossible and counterproductive. For multiple reasons.

Let's start with counterproductive. You could see an investigation and reform, but you would need bipartisan buy-in to do it. It doesn't work as a single party, especially the minority party in both houses.

As for "shutting down the government"...it doesn't work. DHS would remain on the job (including ICE), just as the rest of DHS (customs, the FBI, TSA, etc) would remain working. You could, potentially, cut off their pay given a long enough time without a budget. What would happen would be that TSA would be the first ones to walk off the job because of no pay. You see the airports shut down first...not ICE. You make the issue a partisan issue, so the GOP digs in, and eventually the Democrats relent, having won nothing...except shutting down the airports for as long as it happens.

[Randal]

You didn't read that very well, Armchair, as usual.

Because someone in the GOP political leadership realizes they are going to get slaughtered in the midterms as they have turned off almost all independents. It might be too late already but they have to turn this around.

[JohnSmith97]

Why not name who you think is in danger? An (R) from CA? I'm sure his district just disappeared. The maps are racist by design, but (D)s have no issue with that.

[windycityattorney]

Perhaps that is how it would go. But if the D's in Washington don't do something, even if its not ultimately effective due to being in the minority, they risk themselves being thrown out at the next election opportunity as well. I always assumed all politicians number 1 goal was retaining their own seat.

This charade of ICE doing something extremely problematic and Noem and other admin officials immediately making profound statements before any investigation has begun but after all the videos have gone viral is a losing strategy. "He went there intent on causing maximum damage" and the like are worse than anything Walz or the mayor can or will say. Because its insulting to our collective intelligence. At a time when a simple statement calling for calm and announcing an investigation is all they need to do; they fucking lie to our faces. They lie about what is on the videos that everybody can see. And because they constantly lie, nobody with two brain cells to rub together then trusts that any investigation these lying pigs produce will be objective or fair. That breakdown in trust needs to be repaired. And it can't be with Noem and Bovino being the public face of any of this.

[Sarcastr0]

Trump is forced to call martial law, and bring in the army.

What does a victory for Trump look like in that scenario?

[Kazinski]

It looks like law and order.

[MarkJawz]

If it scares these leftist agitators from protesting going forward, I'm totally good with it.

[Randal]

It won't. But we all know you're still good with it.

[CountmontyC]

ICE shot an armed assailant who was trying to interfere with their law enforcement actions. His profession has no effect on what occurred.

[Frank Drackman]

Hate to have to say the Baby's ugly to start the week, but "Male Nurses" (it's a commonly used term, sort of like the "Lady M.D." from the Petticoat Junction Theme) have always had a chip on their shoulders, like Male Flight Attendants, it was assumed they're Gay, so they have to act tough, and they also have the standard Nurse resentment that they're underpaid and know more than the Doctors who are always making their lives miserable. (I know, I married a Nurse, been making her life miserable for years).
If anything, the increase in Female Physicians has made the lot of the Male Nurse even worse (that rhymes!) because now they're getting bossed around by bossy women (I sort of like that, but that's just me).
You know who's most pissed at this guy? The poor Sap who's going to have to take care of his patients today, because they'll either have to call someone in from their off day, or give one of the Nurses an extra patient.
I love Nurses, my Mom was one, and I married one, they're one of the last "respectable" occupations where a lot of them still smoke, and they usually marry Physicians, other Nurses, or Cops/Firefighters/Military guys. They're also the ones doing the hard work, when the Poindexter ICU "Intensivist" orders "Blood Cultures x 2 q 2 hours" they're the ones who have to draw the blood, put the orders in the computer, bla bla bla. No wonder they hate us.
Unfortunately the move to everybody wearing Scrubs has led to the same Obesity epidemic in Nurses that's afflicted the rest of Society, a move to those old style tight skirts and starched Nurses Caps would do more for the Health of Amurica's Nurses than an Ocean of Ozempic.

Frank "Nurse!!!!! Coffee!!!!!

[Malika la Maize]

Don’t forget nurses take care of you in the Asylum.

[grb]

I dunno. I always pictured Frank as a Mommy's Basement kind of guy. (Puberty is a difficult period).

[SRG2]

Nah - he's an older guy, in the early stages of Alzheimer's - note his over-capitalisation, who in his youth was more moderate and witty, but now resembles Harry Dean Stanton, if HDS hadn't shaved or taken a bath for a week and slept in his day clothes.

[Frank Drackman]

You and "45/47/(48?)" with the "Asylum", now him I can understand, being almost 80 and growing up when "Asylum" was a commonly used word, but you??
Do you also call Joints "Marijuana Cigarettes"??
OK, they have Asylums, they're just called "Institutions" or "Hospitals" or "Congress"
Remember "Soul Asylum"?? just sort of fizzled out

Frank

[Commenter_XY]

The virus has taken hold.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-884315

[LexAquilia]

Better to wipe out all Whites! Never again!

[SRG2]

As you have made common cause with bigots, racists and anti-Semites on the right, your whining about anti-Semitism on the left is hypocrisy.

[hobie]

As Vance said, these Young Republicans like XY are just small children in their thirties and don't yet understand right and wrong. Be patient.

[jay.tee]

Just as you, in your advanced age, should understand that your racism and bigotry is wrong.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It’s time for Donald Trump to declare Martial Law in Minnesota, and to suspend the writ of habeas corpus.

Look at the videos of yesterday‘s shooting, not in terms of what happened with the shooting itself, but the nature of the rebellion in which it happened. That’s not even anarchy that’s an active rebellion.

I should not have to be pushing people out of its mist. You do not have a costume show right to physically disrupt law administration of justice the debt for got what he deserved, he should not have been taking a firearm into the physical confrontation with law enforcement that he should not have had. They should’ve stayed back 100 yards or so.

Is the fault of the Minneapolis Police Department, which was nowhere to be seen. They wanna go find out what happened now, well it wouldn’t have happened had they been there!

[Mr. Bumble]

What, no nukes involved?

[Commenter_XY]

Don't get him started.

[Michael P]

On the bright side, Minnesota has plenty of wing plows.

[hobie]

So many states and nations Ed wants to turn to glass.

[SRG2]

Why don't you just say, it's time for Trump to get an Enabling Act passed, and send in the einsatzgruppen?

[Dr. Ed 2]

There is not, and never has been a constitutional right to interfere with police officers and shove cell phone cameras in their faces.

There’s no need for an enabling act, Trump can send the army in right now and should. And if Hindenburg had done that, they wouldn’t have been Hitler’s rise to power.

[SRG2]

There is not, and never has been a constitutional right to interfere with police officers and shove cell phone cameras in their faces.

There is not, and never has been a constitutional right to summarily execute a citizen who is interfering with police officers but not actually threatening them.

I note that Federal LEOs are inherently unconstitutional.

[JohnSmith97]

More lying from the lefty echo chamber, already ignoring brandishing a gun at leos.

Otherwise known as a day ending in Y.

[Randal]

Brandishing! That's a new lie.

Did you know that Ashli Babbitt was a level-11 mage and was halfway through casting a magic missile when she got shot in the face? Yup. A quick summary execution of her domestic-wizard-terrorist ass really saved the day.

[JohnSmith97]

He was just minding his own business when he was attacked.

Oh, wait, that was Saint Trayvon.

Just another case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Just like the latest two in MSP.

The left encourages it - they really can't deal with not being in power.

[Randal]

Cassidy and Murkowski are the tip of the spear.

[Commenter_XY]

You really have to wonder about the morality of the people that are 'wilding' in The Mini Apple. Who exactly are they protecting? Illegal aliens with a record, usually violent crime. Protect illegal alien criminals, but not American citizens? Absolute rubbish.

I also wonder about the funding. Who is paying for this to happen. It isn't spontaneous or organic. It is organized and funded. By whom?

[David Nieporent]

ho exactly are they protecting?

Everyone. Even you. And Chongly Thao.

Who is paying for this to happen.

What is this weird MAGA notion about "funding," as if people can't just decide they're mad about something and want to act.

[darkknight9]

Two things:

1. Congratulations to Aonishiki winning his second emperor’s cup in a row #hatsubasho2026

2. I never have popular opinions so here's another one. Open rifle carrying people 3-4 of them at least should go to every area where protesters are making noise (earplugs already in the car, handy) and milling about. Why? I have yet to see a scene where a group of rifle open carrying folks has encountered trouble. Everyone, law enforcement included show remarkable politeness and professionalism. People behave with such presences. Gotta let the masked guys get their man (or woman or whatever). Heck, post up a single MPD officer who's duty would be to stand and drink coffee and keep an eye on the open carriers. I know the sensitive matter of the mayor not wanting to be seen as assisting the feds at all but perhaps this might work? I just ask that in addition to the upgrade in professionalism that LEO's do a little lookup to see if anyone they are chasing is already in one of MN's fine penitentiaries. And for Cripes sakes, clothing! Local guys are patient enough to grab some clothing for someone that they are hauling in.

I shall now hide from the barrages of "You hate America" and "You lick boots" and other wholesome sentiments from the appropriate groups.

But seriously though, Aonishiki ended up beating Atamifuji in a playoff nail biter. Good stuff. In lower ranks Nobehara (Futagoyama) and Hananofuji both Yusho'd their divisions. Unfortunately for Enho he lost to Nobehara and may have to do one more basho in makushita before FINALLY getting that last qualifying seketori rank match.

[Frank Drackman]

I have the feeling there will be lots of "Open Rifle carrying people" in Minneapolis soon, with Kevlar Helmets and Body Armor.

[Dr. Ed 2]

And that will be a good thing.

[bloocow2]

Sorry, I'm not 100% clear on point #2. As a solution to people going a bit crazy with guns, your proposal is to introduce more people with bigger guns to encourage them to behave? Is that accurate?

[Stephen Lathrop]

darkknight9 — I count folks among the most persuasive goads to gun control if they advocate open displays of arms for a purpose of political intimidation. That has nothing to do with the 2A.

[darkknight9]

"That has nothing to do with the 2A."

I never said it did.

[SRG2]

Aonishiki is awesome. He must be getting close to that final promotion. I suspect if there were only one current yokozuna, he'd get it on his next win, but with two, I'm not so sure.

Here's video of his play-off win: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1923761208213437

[darkknight9]

He is awesome to watch. There have been times we've had 3 Yokozunas at the same time. Unless something bad happens I think we're about to have another one of those times this year. 🙂

[Commenter_XY]

https://legalinsurrection.com/2026/01/dems-threaten-to-shut-down-govt-if-dhs-funding-included-in-appropriations-bill/

Go ahead Senator Schumer, shut down the fed govt to protect illegal alien gangbangers, rapists, child molesters, murderers , drunk drivers, etc. It won't stop DHS operations. Deportations will still happen throughout the shut down. Preen away.

A shutdown will however, provide an opportunity to right size the DC bureaucracy even more. Last year, 271K non-essential bureaucrats went bye bye. Surely, we can do better this year and a shut down is a perfect opportunity to do just that.

Go for it. Please!

[Mr. Bumble]

Six more days and counting...

[Malika la Maize]

I think the public is not happy with ICE tactics but they do want deportations. Dems would do best to keep hammering on affordability, show ads of Dear Dumb Leader calling it a hoax while people pay their bills or think about buying a steak.

[Mr. Bumble]

Have an omelette. Paid $1.49/dozen for grade A large yesterday.

[Malika la Maize]

Or buy less dolls!

Do you want to sell an austerity Presidency?

Good luck!

[hobie]

All they have to do is follow the Constitution and also stop murdering people, and then they can deport to their hearts content. But as commentators from both sides have been saying for the past 10 years: it's all about the cruelty.

[JohnSmith97]

It is now "cruel" to, ya know, enforce the law.

I suppose it is, to the left. At least when they are not in charge. When they are in charge, we get to read things like "What good is your AR, we have planes." Right before proposing another law to disarm citizens (but not police or feds).

[David Nieporent]

It is now "cruel" to, ya know, enforce the law.

It can be, yes. The law in question could be entirely unjust; it would be cruel to enforce it in such a situation. The law might be just sometimes but not in the particular situation; it would be cruel to enforce it in such a situation. Or the law could be just in theory but the manner chosen to enforce might be cruel.

[hobie]

Well said.

To JohnSmith I would add that the cruelty is killing people in the name of a non-capital offense

[Commenter_XY]

Does the US 'armada' take a crack at Khamenei (currently cowering in an underground bunker)? Yes or No.

No. But I won't cry if we bury his ass under tons of rock.

[ducksalad]

You asking what we should do, or what we are going to do?

What we should do is mind our own business. Trying to "run" Venezuela and Syria is already too much.

What we are going to do is likely decided by Netanyahu and his cabinet. The pattern is they take action against Trump's advice/requests, but once they do, he feels compelled to support them.

[Malika la Maize]

Want to feel old? The Challenger explosion happened 40 years ago today.

[Mr. Bumble]

Thanks. I wasn't feeling old enough already.

[David Nieporent]

It did not; I know because it was my parents' anniversary. It was January 28.

[LexAquilia]

A Democrat senator is now publicly claiming the purpose of ICE in MN is to steal the next election.

Remember when that rhetoric was forbidden?

====

Other Democrats are out there saying it's okay to be armed and obstruct LEO when you're "protecting the community".

They are egging people on to get killed for political gain. They are only this boisterous about Suicide by ICE because they know the only people out there in this weather protesting to spare illegal rapists and murderers are dumb Whites.

[Michael P]

What's the logic there? ICE is going to deport too many Democrat voters? Too many DFL stalwarts are going to suicide by ICE?

[LexAquilia]

It's always about political power.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's going to hurt them at the next apportionment, they won't have as many illegal aliens amplifying the voting power of the actual citizens.

[SRG2]

Now why don't you and Michael P provide actual evidence of all these illegals voting Democrat, or admit you're just spreading GOP propaganda?

[Brett Bellmore]

Did you even read what I wrote?

[SRG2]

I did but misread it. Your point is taken.

[MarkJawz]

They don't, as they're not eligible. But their cucaracha Aztec and Mayan anchor babies do in 18 years.

[LexAquilia]

They get Congressional representation. That's the 'apportionment' reference.

Holy moly you missed an obvious one with your reactionary bluesky hot take.

[David Nieporent]

Setting aside that Florida and Texas benefit a lot more than Minnesota do, the "next apportionment" won't have any effect until the 2032 elections, so I don't think that's what the talk was about.

[LexAquilia]

Why do you think this ICE violence isn't occurring in FL or TX, even though there are orders of magnitude more ICE actions?

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"orders of magnitude more ICE actions?"
There are not.

The reason there are more ICE actions in Florida and Texas is because there are so many more undocumented immigrants in those states. There are about 130,000 in Minnesota and probably over 2 million in Texas.

According to the Feds, 10,000 have been arrested in Minnesota. That's about 8% of the population of those undocumented. Orders of magnitude more would mean about 1 million or so. 8% in Texas would be bout 150k. Best I can quickly tell, Texas has had about 20k deported.

[LexAquilia]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

@AOC
Americans are being killed in the street by their government. Our Constitution is being shredded and our rights are dissolving. Resist.

Senate Dems should block ICE funding this week. Activate the National Guard.

We can and must stop this.

----
https://x.com/AOC/status/2015114062472892595

It's getting hotter. Can't wait to see the fireworks!!

[CountmontyC]

Except ICE is funded through 2029( the BBB) so all shutting down the DHS does is well nothing.

[hobie]

"egging people on to get killed for political gain"

Heh. The cool thing is that I don't even have to explain why I pulled out that quote.

[LexAquilia]

Because you're one of the ones being egged on. By a foreign billionaire, naturally.

[hobie]

Sure, Lex. That's the reason, buddy.

[LexAquilia]

How about next time if you have a point to make you don't just point in a random direction and expect people to see it?

You live in a different world, your assumptions and axioms are different than us Normals. We don't have your framing or your brainwashing, so we simply don't draw the same inferences you and your rebel allies do.

Why is this so hard to understand? Reality has been bifurcated.

You clowns do this shit all the time. Estracuck was on here this morning with some bizarre behavior that probably was well understood by people like you.

---
Make a clear point. Don't expect people outside of your bubble to get your dog whistles and subtexts and signaling.

[Brett Bellmore]

20 degrees and sleeting. On the bright side, I still have power...

[Malika la Maize]

In South Carolina? That’s messed up!

Wet snow up here in MD.

[LexAquilia]

lol it doesn't snow in Pakistan, lol wtf

Rule of the internets:
Assume the troll is a Jew until found out to be Indian.

[Malika la Maize]

Boy, that post about how Indian-Americans are more successful than the average American really set off our resident Daily Stormer. Guess his mom whose basement he lives in pays rent to one?

[Malika la Maize]

Btw, it seems it does snow in Pakistan. Why are our white supremacists so inferior?

[jb]

There's a ski resort in Pakistan! (Actually a few, but several of them seem to be only for the army.)

More to the point: the Himalayas run through Pakistan and the second tallest mountain in the world is there. Of course there's going to be snow when you've got a bunch of 25000+ ft mountains.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Jews and Indians usually play by the rules. They usually are proud to be Americans and act like Americans. There are always individual exceptions but as a group, Jews, and India Indians are good Americans

They’re not the ones we should be sending home.

[MarkJawz]

Ehh, play by the rules in terms of following the law, yes.

Play by the rules in terms of not trying to actively break down the majority culture, no.

[Brett Bellmore]

To be fair, I live in the Piedmont region, cold winter weather isn't totally unheard of here, and we get snowfalls once every few years.

But this is turning into an unusually cold winter, it's going to be dropping to 15 degrees Tuesday morning, and below freezing nights into February.

My bay tree has been parked in the living room for over a week now next to my wife's lemon tree; The last time we had temperatures like this, it had to grow back from the roots. Most winters it lives on the front porch under the overhang, and is fine.

[Malika la Maize]

I’ve heard you can protect trees by wrapping them in some way. Don’t know if that’s helpful to you.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Not in that weather.

Wrapping a tree does two things. First, it prevents dehydration by preventing the wind from sucking the moisture out of the tree.

But what’s more important is vertex it from rapid temperature changes. What happens if you should get a day when you get a few days when it’s like 40° maybe 50° and the sap goes up into the up the branches into the bar if it doesn’t have time to drain back out before it freezes and that’s below 32° it will freeze and just like in your radiators or anything else it’ll crack things open lilacs are particularly notorious for this, I’ll split the stocks right down the middle, which is why if you are in a warmer climate, you have to prune them and keep them down below inch and a half around so that that small enough not to freeze whereas if you’re up in a zone three area you don’t have to bother pruning them at all.

White pine trees do this too. It doesn’t kill the tree just makes it ugly, striped up the side of it, and if you have more than one, you actually have to cut the tree down for safety reasons.

But what the wrapping really really does is protect against rabbits. Not a whole lot to eat in the winter time with the rabbits do as they chew the back off of trees, particularly apple trees and this is the young trees that you’ve just planted the ones are only like 2 inches around

[Malika la Maize]

Brett has reminded me of a topic of supreme importance:

The best BBQ sauce

KC?
North Carolina?
South Carolina?
Texas?

The answer is of course NC, maybe SC but never KC.

[Brett Bellmore]

I am in fact a fan of KC Masterpiece, but the very best BBQ sauce?

You have to make it yourself: Braise ribs in a mix of the BBQ sauce of your choice, vinegar, and onions, (That's how I was taught to cook pork ribs up in Michigan.) and save the liquid to reuse the next time you do it. After several cycles of this, the liquid is the best BBQ sauce on earth, a mix of your favorite BBQ sauce, totally disintegrated onions, and triple pork stock. It's a meaty BBQ sauce!

[Malika la Maize]

Why do you want your sauce to be sweet! That’s for dessert.

We recently got some Prego sauce for our lasagna and it was sweet. wtf?

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm married to a Filipina, and the Philippines have a national sweet tooth. I have to put sugar in things you'd never think of putting it in.

But to answer, if you're cooking with BBQ sauce, not just slathering it on at the end, (Which I'd use hot sauce for, not BBQ sauce.) you need sugar in it or it won't caramelize.

[Malika la Maize]

I guess that makes some sense, but I’m talking about the sauce I put on a BBQ plate or sandwich. More vinegar the better!

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, in our family we use hot sauce for that.

[Krayt]

Why do you want your sauce to be sweet! That’s for dessert.

We recently got some Prego sauce for our lasagna and it was sweet. wtf?

Welcome to America where corporations pander to unsophisticated pallets!

[Bwaaah]

Malika: "Why do you want your sauce to be sweet! That’s for dessert."

I knew the world had gone mad when I first heard about pineapple on pizza. My wife has been funking up her salads ever since with tangerine slices. Even after picking around them, the residues confuse my taste buds.

Sweets should definitely be for after dinner.

[jay.tee]

Try Rao’s or the few other brands that don’t add sugar. Trader Joe’s makes a couple versions sans sugar too.

[Frank Drackman]

I'm a Con-O-Sewer of BBQ, like all kinds, (except the "Alabama White Sauce" it's just friggin Mayonnaise)
Like Pizza (one of my main Food Groups, Pizza, BBQ, Cheeseburgers, and Wings), it's hard to screw up BBQ
Some of the best, "Wilson's BBQ" Albertville AL (Drive through only, so you know it's good)
"Country's BBQ" ( a Chain, but it's good) AL/GA
and believe it or not the "True Texas BBQ" in HEB Grocery Stores (Not really accurate to call HEB a "Grocery" Store, on one Trip I got my Reading glasses, Modafinil, Car Wax, Brake Fluid, Beer, Pork Rinds, and finished with BBQ)
During the Gulf Wah I took a stash of Castleberry's canned Pork and Beef BBQ, and like Hawkeye, had a Quart of Country's BBQ Sauce shipped to Saudi Arabia.
You know a place that was a bit overrated?
Arthur Bryants in KC, and I went to the original on Brooklyn Ave.
Not bad, but not worth getting a knife stuck in your back.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

I will agree with Frankie here, I didn’t list Alabama sauce for a reason.

[Frank Drackman]

I've been wondering about the Alabama Black Snake, is it any good?

[Malika la Maize]

I should think your mom could tell you.

[ducksalad]

Real Texans do not use sauce. As a courtesy to visitors and the ignorant sauce may be offered on the side. It is not very good, but that's not relevant since you shouldn't be using it.

Serving real barbecue with sauce already on it, without asking first, is grounds for sending it back at a restaurant, or being rude to the host at a social event.

The food they call barbecue in Carolina dialect is tasty and the sauce used is appropriate. Carolina by default means North.

[not guilty]

My favorite is Alabama style white barbecue sauce. I make it with mayonnaise, white vinegar, lemon juice, sugar and Tony Cachere's Creole seasoning blend.

It also makes for a tangy coleslaw dressing.

[bernard11]

I never heard of Alabama white BBQ sauce, even when I lived in Alabama. I doubt the places I liked would have served that.

[Commenter_XY]

NC vinegar BBQ sauce is very tough to beat, I have to agree Queenie.

[LexAquilia]

https://x.com/i/status/2015280206366294456

Petti has his gun in his hand and it discharges, then the LEO fire on him.

The rebel got what he deserved.

[Glaucomatose]

Wow, I didn't realize a phone spooked ICE officers so easily.

[LexAquilia]

You can literally see the recoil and hear the gun firing and see the distortion from the projectile and yet you still think it's a phone.

Troubling. Very troubling. I expect there are more like you, hopefully they're rebels on the ground insurrecting so they'll get the good ol' ICE 1, 2.

[Kenneth Almquist]

The ICE officer shown firing a gun straight down was not Petti.

An individual shooting a gun straight down doesn’t seem much of a danger to anyone except himself. But let’s stipulate that the agent posed a threat at that point and that his fellow agents would be justified in shooting him. That still doesn’t justify shooting anyone else.

Once you realize that all sources agree that Petti was not an ICE officer, you should acknowledge that the shooting was unjustified. Somehow I don’t think you will.

[jay.tee]

I think that video shows an ICE agent with Petti’s gun, not Petti himself.

And I’m not sure the ICE agent’s arm moves enough to explain a discharge given he’s not in a shooting stance.

[Malika la Maize]

The rebel got what he deserved.

A publicly maintained statue? That’s the current GOP way (disaffected liberal approved).

[LexAquilia]

Do you know why 90s kids aren't out there getting shot?

When ICE tells them to stop, they collaborate and listen.

[Frank Drackman]

You're pretty funny for a White Supremercist.

[Malika la Maize]

It’s Vanilla Ice, of course.

[Frank Drackman]

Thanks for Man-Splaining to the Mongoloids in the Audience, but since we're showing off our 90's Trivia knowledge, did you know he plagiarized the beat from Queen?, Queenie?
Hilarious Clip where Van Vinkle is explaining how his version is different,
"Uh, so "Under Pressure" is "Dum-Dum-Dum da-da Dum Dum"
and "Ice Ice Baby" is "Dum, Dum-dum da-da Dum Dum"
Love both tunes, too bad Freddies Anally Injected Death Sentence robbed us of years of his Genius.
Van Winkle's still inflicting his music upon us.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

Of course I know. It’s Under Pressure. Also, David Bowie was involved.

[Frank Drackman]

I know you know I know you know, it's just your explaining it to the rest of the Peanut Gallery like they're a bunch of idiots that I was mocking.

[Malika la Maize]

What a weirdo Bowie was, but as I get older I appreciate his music more. Also his acting, like in Twin Peaks.

[Frank Drackman]

Man, talk about the Pot calling the Kettle Black, compared to Boy George, Bowie was friggin Pat Boone.
I think Annie Lennox is still holding that final note.....

[Malika la Maize]

Boy George was a blip, Bowie was a longstanding legend.

[Jmaie]

And yet he did this...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=mick+and+david+bowie&type=E210US1358G0#id=18&vid=4d556965aa9c2d846b9635f2292f88d7&action=view

[Malika la Maize]

I predict a New England Seattle Super Bowl. East coast West coast Biggie Tupac style.

[Frank Drackman]

They gotta get through the "Orange Crush" first
That's an REM tune.
See, I'm mocking your explaining to the rubes who Vanilla Ice was.
"Orange Crush" doesn't make any sense but it's got a beat you can be pretentious and moody to.
Actually, when you realize it's about Vietnam and Agent Orange it all comes together.
" I've had my fun and now it's time to serve" (Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc etc)
"We would circle on, we'd circle, we'd circle to stop and centered, centered on the pavement, Jacked up all the trucks, jacked up in our wheels, slushed in orange Crush. And it might be a while in this here poor county" (Armored Vehicles covered with Agent Orange)

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

No Nix no chance imho.

[Frank Drackman]

Ever been to Denver? Mountain Sickness is a real thing.

[jay.tee]

Not at 5k ft. Usually, the risk for altitude sickness is considered to start at 7k ft.

Shortness of breath and fatigue at 5k if you’re a flatlander, sure, but not altitude sickness.

[Frank Drackman]

Gillette Stadium 300MSL, Empower Field at Mile High 5280 MSL

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I would not go that far.

I think Hank Gola, the local NFL odds guy, is correct that Denver has a reasonable shot. Denver finds a way to win. They found a way to win when their young QB was not playing well.

I think the Pats are the favorite, but they have a young QB too, and ironically, the Pats will have a problem early since they have so little go on regarding how to address a little-used backup.

As to Seattle, it would not surprise me if the QB finds a way to screw up, and the Rams offense dominates. Lean Seattle, though.

[Frank Drackman]

Biggie/Tupac Style? you mean 2 annoying Rappers get murdered? I could get down with that.

[Stephen Lathrop]

I take it for granted—others may not—that the ongoing ICE fiasco in Minnesota must shortly end, or deliver political damage to the Rs which MAGA leaders will find unacceptable. ICE will have to be withdrawn from Minnesota to avoid that. Any notion to double down with more force there is folly.

My question is what stupid politics will Ds shortly demand in Congress? Proposals to defund ICE are starting to get attention. Please Ds, don't press for that.

Instead limit demands to reforms chosen to empower going forward with immigration enforcement under civilized constraints. To start with, the team of Noem, Patel, and Bovino have to go. Their incompetence is not only proved, but proved deadly. It may still be shown that one or all of them should be tried criminally, but if so, that will have to wait until a D presidential administration succeeds MAGA, which might not happen. But maybe to buy political peace Trump could be persuaded to fire one or all three as the political troublemakers they have proven to be. They are doing Trump no good politically.

Beyond that, ICE needs either to be put back on the border, or if it is to continue in its new responsibility for work in the nation's interior, reconstituted from the ground up. What the present incarnation of ICE has accomplished is to identify the worst of the worst . . . and hired them.

Incompetents—and especially incompetents whose flaws show incapability to do dispassionate law enforcement—will have to be fired. The remnant will need to be trained adequately. That will take time. How much time ought to be determined by analyzing the training regimens of conspicuously successful urban law enforcement agencies. Maybe target a time-frame somewhat after the mid-term elections to get it done.

Demands for Ds for reforms of that sort will, of course, not be heeded, at least not until after mid-term elections. But they will at least not discredit Ds politically in the way a proposal to defund ICE entirely would.

[Malika la Maize]

My question is what stupid politics will Ds shortly demand in Congress? Proposals to defund ICE are starting to get attention. Please Ds, don't press for that.

Exactly.

The people want deportations. They don’t like some of the tactics.

[Bwaaah]

Spot-on, Malika. And that doesn't mean I agree or disagree with those people's sentiments. That's just how it pretty much looks to me.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Hey Democrats!

ICE is horrible. As Popehat says, option #2: please eat around the cockroach! Push for "reforms" of ICE. With a Republican Congress and president, that will result in token reforms.

And then we can talk about what matters. Money!

ICE can continue to be horrible, but not so much that it makes us uncomfortable. Can they stop killing white people with guns? That comes off badly. Focus on the right people to kill, please.

I'm not going to rest on what this thread determines "the people" want. The people elected Trump, right?

Anyway, people will continue to be deported without something that wasn't even around in the beginning of this century.

[gVOR08]

You say, satirically, "Focus on the right people to kill, please." In a post entitled "The Cruelty Is the Point for ICE" Jamelle Bouie notes that at least 32 people died in ICE custody last year. (Gift link)
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/ice-detention-immigrant-rights.html?unlocked_article_code=1.HFA.bYDi.KgzUNkbu0VO1&smid=url-share

[ThePublius]

"Instead limit demands to reforms chosen to empower going forward with immigration enforcement under civilized constraints."

This should start with Minnesotans not protecting illegal immigrants who are criminals, and not physically interfering with ICE agents trying to do their jobs.

You realize that if ICE withdraws from MN it will mean the radical left has won, that their unlawful interference and obstruction has worked. We can't have that.

[SRG2]

Perhaps don't murder citizens exercising their constitutional rights. And stop Kristi Nöhm lying about shootings immediately after they happen,

[jay.tee]

Perhaps don't murder citizens exercising their constitutional rights

1. You don’t have a “constitutional right” to interfere with a law enforcement operation with which you disagree
2. Law enforcement doesn’t have the right, or even legal justification, to kill someone engaged in unlawful acts without an immediate threat to their or others’ lives

Kristi Nöhm

I know you think this is cute, but it’s clownish and undermines any legitimate point you might have.

[SRG2]

1. You don’t have a “constitutional right” to interfere with a law enforcement operation with which you disagree

You may well do, if the operation is itself illegal - penumbra of 2A. But I never said you did. I said, just "exercising constitutional rights". But it's not clear that either recent death was actually following interference. We can be pretty sure that Good was not interfering nor was posing any real threat, for example, based on the government's own actions this last week.

I know you think this is cute, but it’s clownish and undermines any legitimate point you might have.

It has no effect whatsoever other than to express my continued contempt for this vile creature.

[jay.tee]

We can be pretty sure that Good was not interfering nor was posing any real threat

She was clearly attempting to interfere. That’s plain as day on numerous videos.

The two incidents are connected in that both are an escalating series of errors and poor judgment by all involved that culminated in a tragic death.

They appear to diverge in that an ICE agent seems to have disarmed the guy in yesterday’s incident, but they shot him anyway. Good was not “disarmed” in the same way.

It has no effect whatsoever other than to express my continued contempt for this vile creature.

Then express your continued contempt of Noem; lord knows you have plenty of material to work from. Name calling reflects more on you than your target, and not in a good way.

[SRG2]

Name calling reflects more on you than your target, and not in a good way.

I can live with it. Name-calling can also be very efficient. What shorter and more impactful way to express contempt for Noem than to call her Nöhm? And it's more accurate than Gestapo Barbie.

[bernard11]

They appear to diverge in that an ICE agent seems to have disarmed the guy in yesterday’s incident, but they shot him anyway. Good was not “disarmed” in the same way.

There is no "seems" about it. Pretti was disarmed, then shot in the back while kneeling on the ground. And then shot again. Several times.

This was murder, not a case of "errors and poor judgment."

[jay.tee]

Still could have been an egregious error. I doubt, but do not know for sure, the agents beating on Pretti knew another agent had already disarmed him.

They see an empty holster, hear a shot or a “gun” call, and they react.

Not excusing it by any means. But a jump to it “was murder” is premature.

[Brett Bellmore]

The border is already taken care of, Lathrop. The reason they're in the interior is that previous administrations hadn't taken care of the border, (Although that's too passive a way to put it, it wasn't mere negligence.) and the Biden administration was actually spending money to move illegals from the border into the interior.

So we have accumulated literally millions of illegal aliens who need to be ejected, and they are NOT camped out 50 miles from the border.

Here's how I expect it to go: The administration keeps finding and deporting illegals as fast as they can, and in a regrettably clumsy manner.

Democrats get increasingly upset about it, because,

1. Enforcing laws they don't like can never be legitimate.
2. It's going to really hurt them come the next Census.

This causes Democrats to go nuts and give Trump a full on valid excuse to invoke the insurrection act.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I forget what letter it is, but there’s a certain kind of visa you can get if you’re a cooperating witness that testifies for the US attorney’s office in a criminal matter. As I understand, it is as good as a green card, may even be a green card, which are actually orange.

And then as witness protection, which is even better than a green card because they make you Americans with all of the relevant paperwork.

There is a lot — I mean a LOT of welfare fraud involving illegal aliens, including registering them to vote. Not just letting them, but the state actually registering them, and there is a lot of money involved in this, several seats in Congress because of census matters, and much of the money that supports the modern Democratic Party.

Once the illegals are identified and facing actual deportation, it’ll elect a little fish in the drug industry. Once they’re in prison, they’re gonna wanna make a deal. “Help us out here, you, your wife, your children, your grandparents, and all your cousins get to be Americans, all you have to do is to go to court and tell the truth about the Minnesota welfare folk.“

If I were a crooked Minnesota public official, of which there are many, I’d be really worried right now. The last thing I would want is potential witnesses against me being rounded up by ICE.

[Sarcastr0]

Gun rights guy who claims to be too libertarian for the Libertarian Party ends up siding with the government thugs over the Second Amendment.

Via telepathically finding bad intent in the guy who was killed, natch.

We all knew which way Brett would break in this conflict between his supposed principles and his dark fan fiction world.

I think it says something that everyone around here who predicts civil war ends up defending every killing of a liberal that occurs.

[bernard11]

Odd to hear you using "enforcing laws" as an all-purpose excuse for abusive behavior and outright criminality by ICE.

And your usual blinders come into play:

Democrats get increasingly upset about it, because,

1. Enforcing laws they don't like can never be legitimate.
2. It's going to really hurt them come the next Census.

That's it. Everything is the Democrats' fault, as usual with Bellmore, who will soon tell us again how much he dislikes the means being used, between comments defending those means.

You know, in response to #1, I'd say Republicans get upset because they think the Constitution unduly interferes with the enforcement of laws they like, especially when law enforcement particularly targets black and brown people.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

His whining is also rather ironic as quite recently he was whining about NY State rigidly enforcing its gun laws.

[Bunny495]

I have no idea how accurate this poll is but it is the only one I have seen after the most recent shooting so far. A big problem for the dems is the "mother of three dropping her kid off at school depicted in a way past it's sell date pix" turns out to have custody of only one who gets VA benefits and goes to an ultra underperforming school where his mother leads left wing groups harassing ICE agents; and it only gets worse from here.

Say what you want about justice but legally ICE has the high ground and there is no way there will not be three more years of it. I agree with SL the shutdown is a dumb idea and not just because it will give Trump to fire thousands of federal workers. A bigger worry is if the mostly peaceful protesters keep obstructing ICE it gives Trump a good reason to declare martial law.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I think Trump should put Minnesota under martial law right now before anyone else gets hurt. Ice is not a police department. It’s not trying to be a police department, it’s not equipped to be a police department.

The problem in Minneapolis is it no one is establishing perimeters around ice operations. No one is detouring vehicular traffic, no one is stringing yellow barrier tape for pedestrian traffic control. State authorities aren’t able to do this, for whatever reason, which is what has put the state into rebellion.

The US Constitution is clear, once a state is in rebellion, the president may suspend the writ of habeas corpus to ensure that the laws are faithfully executed. That includes the immigration laws.

Minnesota needs, and deserves, functioning police departments. Establish Law and order with military police fire. Fire every sworn officer in that state, reconstitute new police department, and then restore civilian authority.

After having removed all of the illegal aliens.

[David Nieporent]

I think Trump should put Minnesota under martial law right now

Well, you finally spelled it right, but it's still not a thing.

The US Constitution is clear, once a state is in rebellion, the president may suspend the writ of habeas corpus to

No he may not you lunatic buffoon. The US Constitution is clear that the president has no authority of any sort to do any such thing.

[bernard11]

Say what you want about justice but legally ICE has the high ground

WTF? ICE has a disarmed civilian on his knees on the ground, and eight agents are kicking him and punching him and hitting him with a tear gas can. Then they shoot him in the back, and fire a bunch more shots at him, all of which unsurprisingly kills him.

And you think this gives ICE the legal high ground? Well, with Trump, Bondi and Noem in charge they might get away with it. Murderers sometimes do, especially if they have friends in high places, but that has nothing to do with whether they committed murder.

[hobie]

ICE could do a lot to rehabilitate their image by getting rid of the masks. As it stands they look every bit the secret police

[ThePublius]

The masks are because the 'protesters,' once they identify them, threated them and their families.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If you had a wife and three kids whom you love very much, you’ll be wearing a mask too.

[hobie]

Cops and the military don't wear masks and have their names on their uniforms, and no one is targeting them. So what's ICE's privileged excuse? People that have something to hide...generally hide.

[JohnSmith97]

Since MSP police are not cooperating with CBP/ICE, why would it matter what they do? Anyone with a brain (which rules out much of the left) knows that MSP and the state of MN don't care about illegals.

[David Nieporent]

I would not be, if for no other reason that I don't do things I'm ashamed of.

[David Nieporent]

Beyond that, ICE needs either to be put back on the border, or if it is to continue in its new responsibility for work in the nation's interior, reconstituted from the ground up.

You're confused. ICE has always operated in the interior. It's CBP that generally operates near the border but has been tasked by this administration with interior work.

[Frank Drackman]

Remember during the early ICE Deployments when Peoples were saying they probably didn't even have bullets in their guns??

[Frank Drackman]

New twist to the Minneapolis ICE Shooting.
Guy was carrying a gun because he was going to meet
Carl Showalter at MSP.

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

...and in tower climbing news:
Honnold made it to the top of the Taipei 101 building.

[Bwaaah]

...speaking of people who look for trouble...

It's hard for me to watch him in action. What could possibly go wrong? (just once)

[Dr. Ed 2]

OTOH, Someone like him is likely to die in a stupid fall off his porch roof. If you know what you’re doing, if your gear is redundant and has margins of safety, it probably really is no more dangerous than shoveling off a roof.

[MoreCurious]

You should pay more attention. The point is that he did it without any gear whatsoever. No ropes, no nets, no parachute, no margins of safety, no nothing. Just his feet and his bare hands.

[ThePublius]

At that same 'protest' where the nurse was shot, a woman bit off an agent's finger.

"In Minneapolis, these rioters attacked our law enforcement officer and one of them bit off our HSI officer’s finger," McLaughlin wrote in the post. "He will lose his finger."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-ice-agitator-allegedly-bites-off-federal-officers-finger-during-minneapolis-attack

Note: "...rioters attacked out law enforcement officer...."

This is not protest, let alone peaceful protest. This is assault, and a whole raft of other crimes.

It's time for the insurrection act.

[Michael P]

Leftists here will still blame that on the federal officer. They want a civil war.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The US Constitution was written in response to Shays rebellion.

In explicitly permits, the president to put down rebellion as part of his duty to ensure the laws are faithfully executed. It’s past time for Trump to do this.

[Bunny495]

It could have been worse, just glad Lorena Bobbit is not protesting.

[Bwaaah]

Q: "What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit?"

A: "Hey there...you gonna eat that?"

[bernard11]

I'm sure that when I stop laughing I will find that joke disgusting.

[Bwaaah]

You made my day. One more:

Q: "What's the worst thing about eating vegetables?"

A: "The wheelchairs."

(I think I have only two more jokes in my accumulated lifetime repertoire. Only one is coming to mind, and it's off limits.)

[ThePublius]

I watched a movie yesterday morning. Made a pizza and put on "Nonnas" on Netflix, with Vince Vaughn and Susan Sarandon. It's based on a true story about a guy who opens a restaurant on Staten Island where the cooks were real Italian grandmas (nonnas). The beginnning was the best part. They, of course, had to nod to wokeness and include a lesbian angle. Overall, it was "cute." Nothing too heavy or dramatic. The second best part was with the credits they showed the actual owner and restaurant, which is still operating after 15 years.

If you want some light entertainment I recommend it, but it's nothing to get too worked up about.

[SRG2]

I've eaten at that restaurant. It's pretty good but I wasn't blown away by it.

[ThePublius]

Oh, interesting! What brought you to the place? What did you have?

[SRG2]

I was competing at Ocean Breeze track, and one of my track buddies suggested it. I don't recall specifically but it would have involved pasta! Had it been truly memorable, well then...for example, I can still recall the amazing pigeon ravioli I had at a Holiday Inn near Bologna airport in the early 90s.

[ThePublius]

I get it. There are a lot of good Italian restaurants, but truly great and memorable is rare. My best memories are restaurants in Italy. One of the worst Italian restaurants I ever ate at was in Rome!

[SRG2]

I have said that the most difficult authentic major cuisine to find in NYC is Italian - and people then say, but there are tons of Italian restaurants in NY! Yes, there are lots of red-sauce joints, and more than a few which have authentic menu items. But very rarely have I ever had an Italian in NYC which tasted the same as Italian food in Italy. And I have had meals in Italy, not necessarily that pricy, which no restaurant in NYC would be capable of providing. The quality of the raw produce simply isn't available.

One of the worst Italian restaurants I ever ate at was in Rome!

Similarly, living in HK will disabuse you of the notion that "it must be a good restaurant, the Chinese themselves eat there". (On the other hand last year I ate at an izakaya on Bell Blvd where my date and I were the only two non-Japanese - and it was excellent.)

[ThePublius]

Have you tried Arthur Avenue in the Bronx?

[SRG2]

No - I am seldom near there except when driving across the Cross Bronx Expressway in a hurry to get home. But I have heard it has some decent places.

[ReaderY]

The federal government shoots a citizen who is simply lawfully carrying a gun, claiming with mo evidence whatsoever that the person is a terrorist. And what do we here from the usual 2nd Amendment crowd? Nothing.

The silence is devastating.

Apparently only the right sort of people have a 2nd Amendmend right to keep and bear arms. It’s totally OK to shoot the wrong sort of people. If you roll up the constitution and smoke it, you’ll see in the penumbras and emanations of the resulting haze that it says “only if you’re one of us.”

[ThePublius]

"The federal government shoots a citizen who is simply lawfully carrying a gun, ...."

That is a lie! That guy jumped in between an officer and a woman they were trying to aprehend, violently, and then when they tried to place him under arrest he violently resisted. Watch the videos!

By the way, he wasn't carrying any ID nor his license to carry, so he wasn't even technically carrying legally.

"In Minnesota, you are required to have your valid Permit to Carry (LTC/PTC) in your possession at all times when carrying a firearm in public, whether concealed or unconcealed. Failure to produce the permit upon request by a law enforcement officer can result in penalties, as it is considered a violation to carry without it."

You have to lie because that's the only way you can make your case.

[ReaderY]

Evidence?

[ThePublius]

Oh, you make an assertion without evidence, and when I contradict you, you demand evidence. The evidence is the video! Watch it!

[LexAquilia]

The mother fucking videos that are all over the internet.

How the fuck did you hear about this without seeing a video?

Did you get pushed some talking points in a Signal group or something?

[ReaderY]

Could you explain where in the video this occurs?

https://www.nytimes.com/video/embedded/us/100000010666364/24vid-ICE-angle-two-64686.html?smid=url-share

As I see the video, the ICE agent had knocked the women down and apparently injured her and he, a licensed nurse, came over to assist her. Could you help me understand how providing medical assistance is interfering, let alone an act of terrorism? Ordinary law enforcement officers who injure someone are required by law to permit medical personnel to examine and provide treatment. Does this law simply not apply to ICE?

[ThePublius]

Page not found.

[LexAquilia]

lmao an hour ago he never saw the video, now he's claiming the 'nurse was just rendering aid'.

Your brain is mush.

[Malika la Maize]

When our resident white supremacist who happily endorses gassing people announced this, how can others who agree fail to take another shot look.

[jb]

Is the video more then an hour long? If not, what do you find improbable about this sequence of events?

[LexAquilia]

I watched videos with my own eyes and watched the sequence of events, so his take is not just improbably, it's false.

[jb]

Sigh. I meant that you seemed surprised by the fact that over the course of an hour Reader Y went from not having seen the video to having an opinion on it.

That's seems pretty easily explainable by watching the video in the meantime!

[LexAquilia]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to his interpretation of the video, not his process by which he discovered it.

Notice, how he's probably in a very small set of people who were very passionate about it this morning without having stumbled across the video in any of his news sources.

Makes you kinda scratch your head and rub your chin.

[ReaderY]

Oh I saw the video all right. That’s why I knew you, Publius, and ICE didn’t have any.

[SRG2]

Does this law simply not apply to ICE?

As we know from the Good killing, no it does not.

[David Nieporent]

By the way, he wasn't carrying any ID nor his license to carry, so he wasn't even technically carrying legally.

"In Minnesota, you are required to have your valid Permit to Carry (LTC/PTC) in your possession at all times when carrying a firearm in public, whether concealed or unconcealed. Failure to produce the permit upon request by a law enforcement officer can result in penalties, as it is considered a violation to carry without it."

Don't know what you're quoting, but it is not an accurate statement of the law, in two ways.

1. There are exceptions to the carry permit requirement. See, e.g., 624.714(9):

Carrying pistols about one's premises or for purposes of repair, target practice. A permit to carry is not required of a person:
[...]
(3) to carry a pistol between the person's dwelling house and place of business;

I assume this one doesn't apply, but I'm not sure what the circumstances were that this guy was out and about.

2. In situations where one is required to have a permit, it is in fact a petty misdemeanor (maximum $25 fine! ooh!) not to have the permit and photo ID in one's possession while carrying, but that doesn't make the carrying illegal. It makes the failure to have the documents in one's possession illegal. (The distinction is analogous to the one between driving w/o having one's driver's license in one's possession, and driving w/o a valid license existing.) But, not really. § 624.714 1b(b):

A citation issued for violating paragraph (a) must be dismissed if the person demonstrates, in court or in the office of the arresting officer, that the person was authorized to carry the pistol at the time of the alleged violation.

(The same is true for a driver's license, by the way: if you left your wallet at home, it's a petty misdemeanor, but if you produce your valid license before your court date, the charge is automatically dismissed.)

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, we're usually silent about things that didn't happen.

[ThePublius]

Yea, the guy was just walking down the street, minding his own business, and when an agent saw his legally carried handgun, he shot him. That's ReaderY's story, and he's sticking to it.

[ReaderY]

Pretty much. As the video shows, he was in the process of attempting to provide medical assistance to an apparently injured women. Providing medical assistance is his business, and he was minding it.

[ThePublius]

You realize I was being sarcastic?

[Longtobefree]

I don't think RY realizes anything at all - - - - - -

[ThePublius]

When the NYTimes video reappears, if ever, I will watch it.

[ThePublius]

The NYTimes video is now on the front page. No, he wasn't trying to provide medical assistance. The woman was blockiing the ICE vehicle and refused to get out of the way. An office shoved her and then Petti jumped in and physically interfered.

I don't think they should have shot him. But it's stupid to jump in physically when an officer is engaged in doing his job. As a matter of fact, it's illegal to do so.

[Malika la Maize]

People get to be stupid Pubes, but government should get held to a very high bar when they kill somebody they shouldn’t have shot.

Recently disaffected liberals of course disagree!

[Brett Bellmore]

Doesn't whether you clear the bar determine whether they should have shot or not?

[jay.tee]

Yes - though it appears he was unarmed, and had been for a number of seconds, when he was shot.

Unless the agents saw him doing something like pulling the pin on a grenade, they seemed to use deadly force with a very low bar.

[ReaderY]

A lot of people on this forum have evoked natural law to support their positions over the years, sometimes claiming that natural law is supreme and overrides the written text of the constitution.

It’s worth pointing out that this administration has relied heavily on natural law. What is “the law of nature,” red in tooth and claw, other than natural law? Elon Musk probably best articulated the position but it’s a core element of this entire administration’s philosophy. By natural law, the strong ought to dominate and they ought to stomp on the weak in doing so. Western civilation is completely unnatural; in stressing compassion, it has allowed the weak to bloat this planet with an unhealthy underbrush of parasites and useless eaters and untermenschen that need to be gotten rid of entirely to enable the strong to thrive, the great to achieve their destiny, and the human species to have the lebensraum it needs to evolve.

While this country is at present too weak-willed and too in the grip of the untermentschen to do bold action like erecting gas chambers, its governemtn can at least help things along on the margins - use immigration law to deport the lesser breeds, end vaccination so the weak can die off natirally of disease, end this husiness of government supporting and holding up the weak and the crippled and the retards and the other useless eaters.

My question is this. Why isn’t this administration’s modern formulation of natural law, based on an interpretation of the theory of evolution that had a lot of support among scientists of a century ago, just as much “natural law” as, say Thomas Aquinas’ formulation?

If natural law supercedes what our constitution says, why aren’t these folks equally entitled to say that this “all men are created equal” bullshit the weak have managed to con and shackle the strong with goes totally against nature? Why canmt they say natural law entitles the strong to use government to help natural law along by preventing the weak from impeding humanity’s evolutionary progress by stomping them into their place, which is quite often simply out of the way? Why all this pussy footing around with no subsidies and no vaccines? Why wait for them to die off? Why merely deport them? Why not gas chambers?

[Bunny495]

Not sure what you posted jibes with how the founding fathers defined natural law.

[ThePublius]

Did it ever occur to you that you're a nut?

[ReaderY]

From the point of view of someone who agrees with the philosophy, I wouldn’t doubt I am.

Or perhaps you are referring to my habit of taking people seriously — very seriously — when they say things like “The fundamental weakness of Western Civilization is empathy, the empathy exploit. There it’s they’re exploiting a bug in Western civilization, which is the empathy response.” Perhaps you think only a nut would take people who say things like that seriously and worry aboit what people who say such things might do?

[Brett Bellmore]

Natural law is like physics, it's descriptive, not prescriptive. At most it consists of Kantian conditional imperatives: If you want X, do Y, if you don't want B, don't do A.

Now, normal people will reliably want X and not want B, so natural law will tell them to do Y, and refrain from A. But natural law doesn't force you to do Y, it doesn't prevent you from doing A.

It just tells you what will happen depending on your choices.

[hobie]

I was wondering when MAGA would start bringing up eugenics. I told you, Frankie...they're coming for you.

[robbbb]

I was wondering what people think of the protesters from the Minn. church protesters being released on the condition that they surrender their passports. I thought it was the federal government’s position that everyone needs to be carrying their passport in order to prove citizenship when stopped by federal agents.

[ThePublius]

"I thought it was the federal government’s position that everyone needs to be carrying their passport in order to prove citizenship when stopped by federal agents."

Oh, yea? Can you quote that policy for me?

Did it occur to you that not everyone has a passport? And there are other forms of ID that would probab;y suffice, such as green cards. I know a driver's license doesn't indicate citizenship (it should). But then, you shouldn't have to prove your citizenship, or even answer questions or produce ID, unless there's a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you have cimmitted a crime, are committing a crime, or are about to commit a crime.

[Bunny495]

Some RealID drivers' licenses do indicate citizenship. Not to put too fine a point on it but Florida is the leader in their RealID drivers license currently containing citizenship information in a database used by local precints to verify citizenship and allowing federal LEOs access to that database as well as changing the form of newly issued RealID drivers license so citizenship is physically indicated on the RealID drivers license. Tennessee is following Florida's example. While not always indicating citizenship RealID (drivers license or not) does indicate you are in America legally either as a citizen, green card holder, or other legal option.

[Dr. Ed 2]

What surprised me about the conditions is that there was no standard restrain from alcohol and drug use and submit to testing requirement. Maybe that’s a state obligation, but I’ve always seen that thrown in there.

[robbbb]

I oppose the government’s position that the authorities can stop random people and demand that they “show their papers”. I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of the feds saying that every one needs to carry their papers and then having a court coercively take someone’s papers away.

[ThePublius]

I agree with you on "the government’s position that the authorities can stop random people and demand that they “show their papers”." But I am not aware of a federal policy that says everyone need carry their papers and produce them upon request. That's not legal, and that's why I asked if you could quote the policy rather than just repeat that assertion.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Weren’t there Supreme Court decisions, a while back that said that the police could require people to identify themselves?

This is pretty much the same thing.

[ThePublius]

If there was I'd like to hear about it. I don't think there is. A P.O. needs a reasonable, articulable suspcition that you have committed a crime, are committing a crime, or are about to commit a crime before they can detain and question you, or even ask for I.D. You don't have to comply. And, the presence of a gun does not constitute probable cause.

[John F. Carr]

I believe Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada is the leading case. Reasonable suspicion is sufficient for police to demand a person give his name. A California law requiring a person to produce an ID card had been struck down in the older case Kolender v. Lawson.

[John F. Carr]

It seems to be generally accepted that a person's name or identity is not incriminating in a constitutional sense. Police can ask routine booking questions before letting an arrested person consult with an attorney. The person can not refuse to answer on the grounds that looking up the name will turn up a pile of warrants.

[ThePublius]

But as you know there's a difference between a person who has been arrested, and one just waalking down the street.

[John F. Carr]

But once police have the authority to demand a name, you can not refuse on the grounds of self-incrimination.

[David Nieporent]

That is not what Hiibel says. Typically compelling that one identify oneself would not be self-incrimination and thus the 5th amendment does not protect one's refusal to supply the information, but if a circumstance arises where it would be self-incriminating, one could assert the 5th.

[Dr. Ed 2]

BINGO — I knew there was a recent case, stretching down the old one, but just couldn’t remember its name.

I would argue that anyone directing traffic without an explicit badge of authority, both physical and legal authorization, is inherently suspicious.

I’m sure where courts would go with protesters in general, although being in the street is technically a crime so that would be probable cause. And the real interesting thing is that this case for society before facial recognization.

I’m just waiting for when cops and cruises have little ones that they can point people and look up who they are from that picture.

[Bunny495]

As I posted above my Florida RealID drivers license is connected to a database (available to Florida and federal LEOs) that contains citizenship status and a DMVHS picture and has for over ten years. While there are other options the first choice for ID when I vote is my drivers license. I can also use my CCW to vote and other state ID requirements but not for federal stuff even though it is harder to get a CCW than a drivers license (finger prints required that are used for an FBI check). Tennessee has recently follow suit. Some blue states on the border with Canada also have RealID drivers licenses that can also be used as a passport but unlike Florida and Tennessee charge an extra 45 bucks for the RealID DL and are happy to issue a drivers license to anyone citizen or not.

[David Nieporent]

Weren’t there Supreme Court decisions, a while back that said that the police could require people to identify themselves?

No. The opposite. Your capacity to be wrong continues to impress.

1) Police cannot demand that you produce ID.
2) Police cannot demand that you identify yourself in any way unless (a) a specific statute authorizes it; and you have been validly stopped based on reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot.

[not guilty]

"Weren’t there Supreme Court decisions, a while back that said that the police could require people to identify themselves?"

In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court of Nev., Humboldt Cty., 542 U.S. 177 (2004), SCOTUS upheld the constitutional validity of a statute that provided in relevant part:

“1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.
. . . . .
“3. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.”

Id., at 182. In the absence of such a statute, the suspect can tell the cop to go pound sand.

The statute in Hiibel had been previously construed narrowly by the Nevada Supreme Court: “The suspect is not required to provide private details about his background, but merely to state his name to an officer when reasonable suspicion exists” SCOTUS observed that the statute does not require a suspect to give the officer a driver's license or any other document. Id., at 185.

In Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979), SCOTUS considered the validity of a statute which provided:

"§ 38.02. Failure to Identify as Witness"

"(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to report or gives a false report of his name and residence address to a peace officer who has lawfully stopped him and requested the information."

Id., at 49 n.1. The suspect there was arrested when he refused to give his name upon being questioned. The Supreme Court held that the application of this statute to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct. Id., at 53.

[Bwaaah]

I believe the courts have permitted "show us your papers" demands near the border, and that merely being near the border constitutes sufficient cause to demand identification.

I don't think the location or setting of Minneapolis was consistent with those "near the border" cases I read.

[Malika la Maize]

Bwaari exercising the liberal part of recently disaffected liberal for a change!

[Dr. Ed 2]

“ near the border” has been defined as within 100 miles of any international border, land or sea. While Minneapolis is 300 miles from the Canadian border, it’s on a navigable portion of the Mississippi river, with international shipping docking in Minneapolis to pick up grain. (the river is navigable all the way to Minneapolis, but not further north.)

Minneapolis thus is on an international border as ships go through customs when they dock, in this case in Minneapolis. Hence under the rules passed circa Obama, I believe, anyone in Minneapolis can be asked for their papers.

[John F. Carr]

The law says "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States". Regulations define that as 100 miles except when DHS says a longer distance is necessary. The lawsuit by Minnesota against ICE mentioned this flexible distance. I don't think Minnesota's lawyers found a legally valid order extending the distance.

[David Nieporent]

Minneapolis thus is on an international border

No. Why are you like this? Minneapolis is not on any border of anything, and not within 100 miles of any border of anything, unless you count Wisconsin as a foreign country. The Mississippi river is not a border.

Hence under the rules passed circa Obama, I believe, anyone in Minneapolis can be asked for their papers.

As always, nothing you "believe" is true, and no "rules passed circa Obama" exist here.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

My understanding is that the only Supreme Court case addressing the 100 mile rule and allowing the border patrol to stop people for citizenship checks is United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, That case addressed the border patrol checkpoints that are established throughout the country. Border patrol is allowed to briefly detain people and inquire as to citizenship. Typically this requires a person to make a statement as to citizenship. For US citizens, no documentation is required and it would be my guess that for someone who has declared US citizenship it would require reasonable suspicion to inquire further.

United States v. Martinez-Fuerte addressed the question of the border patrol checkpoints, I've traveled through several along I10 going west and they don't routinely ask for any documentation and if they did, it would create a monumental traffic jam. The supposed rule which allows BP to demand documentation from anybody within 100 miles of the border, I'm not sure where that rule supposedly comes from. It would be my suspicion that demanding documentation from anyone, or even inquiring as to status, would require reasonable suspicion, which is a pretty low bar. If someone actually knows otherwise, I would welcome being corrected.

I couple years ago, BP agent confronted a couple of women in a convenience store in one of those northern states near the Canadian border. His alleged reasonable suspicion was that they were speaking to each other in Spanish. As I recall, the consensus at the time was that speaking Spanish did not give the agent reasonable suspicion. I don't know that there was any litigation over the incident.

[robbbb]

https://www.newsweek.com/kristi-noem-ice-us-citizenship-minnesota-shooting-identity-11366671

[Malika la Maize]

You can’t expect “liberals” like Bri Bri and Bwaari to oppose “papers, please,” they’re so recently DISAFFECTED!

[LexAquilia]

Violence is only happening in very specific communities that have a very low proportion of ICE activity.

What's common about those communities?

[hobie]

Tim Walz goin' hard:

"Well, as I said last week, this federal occupation of Minnesota, long ago stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement. It's a campaign of organized brutality against the people of our state. And today that campaign claimed another life. I've seen the videos from several angles, and it's sickening. Minnesota's justice system will have the last word on this. It must have the last word. As I told the White House in no uncertain terms this morning, the federal government cannot be trusted to lead this investigation. The state will handle it. Period."

And cue the Somali daycare deflection in three...two...one...GO HAYSEEDS!

[Malika la Maize]

Trump bigotdly talked about Somalis in general as garbage people and our disaffected liberals Life of Bri Bri, Bwaari, etc. were mum. Our more MAGAns were ecstatic.

[jay.tee]

LOL at inept Tim Walz and those who surround him. He and Keith “I heart antifa” Ellison have some culpability.

Ellison has basically DQed MN from any role in a non-politically motivated investigation. Hopping on Don Lemon’s show right after Lemon’s church incursion and completely misstating the FACE Act shows he allows his ideology to override his duties.

Which is a travesty because we shouldn’t trust DHS/DOJ on this either.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If Trump were smart, he’d invite the attorney general of a purple state, such as Wisconsin, to send a seven man team in to help investigate, and offer to pick up the overtime and incidental expenses.

[Bored Lawyer]

"this federal occupation of Minnesota"

Minnesota is no longer a part of the United States? Who knew?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Trade them for Greenland!

[Life of Brian]

OK, credit where credit is due -- that was hilarious.

[Bunny495]

"Minnesota's justice system will have the last word on this."

Pop quiz time for Waltz and libs. What SCOUS justice said "this is not a court of justice it is a court of law"?

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The protest inside a church in Minnesota has received some attention on this blog. The response from the administration has been typically horrible. It resulted in a striking judicial response.

As Steve Vladeck summarizes (Chris Geidner is a good source as well, even if he is not a Mets fan):

Let’s start with the background. Last Sunday, a group of demonstrators entered the Cities Church in St. Paul during Sunday services as they protested one of its pastors, David Easterwood—who is also the head of the St. Paul ICE Field Office. (Don Lemon, now an independent journalist, followed the demonstrators with a producer, and live-streamed the goings-on via YouTube.)

https://substack.com/inbox/post/185670069

Ultimately, this would ideally be a local matter for local officials to address. Notguilty has parsed the federal law in place and how it is not totally unreasonable to argue it might apply in some fashion to some of the individuals. A bare minimum that this administration regularly doesn't meet. But that doesn't make it sensible to do so.

(The federal law was passed to address threats to clinics and religious institutions that overwhelm local authorities or, perhaps for whatever reason, might not be appropriately addressed by them.)

Vladeck summarizes how the DOJ reached out to target the protestors and the media on hand. They also made overheated statements on social media (another theme these days) that appear to violate rules of professional conduct.

(A basic problem in these cases has been not following the appropriate procedures typically used.

So, e.g., an officer-related shooting of a civilian should not result in the authorities immediately asserting that such and such person was a dangerous assassin, or trying to keep medical personnel away, or resisting joint involvement with local authorities.

Serious professionals respond differently. This is not about assuming the officer-related shooting was wrong in each case.

It is about basic professional conduct.)

The overreaching led the magistrate judge to only accept three of the eight arrest warrants. The DOJ then continued its over-the-top tactics:

the U.S. Attorney notified me that his office wanted a district judge to review Judge Micko's decision-either by hearing an appeal of that decision or by considering the application de novo.

This is a quote from a letter that spells out the extraordinary abuse of the appeals process attempted by the Administration. Vladeck, as usual, carefully spells out the details and summarizes the law. tl;dr: This is not usually how a denial of an arrest warrant is handled. Not at all. "Not in all my years on the bench" level.

The judge involved adds to the striking nature of the whole thing:

The chief judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of Minnesota is the Honorable Patrick J. Schiltz—a George W. Bush appointee who followed up clerkships for D.C. Circuit Judge (and then Justice) Antonin Scalia with a distinguished career on the faculty at Notre Dame Law School and then as Dean of the University of St. Thomas School of Law in Minneapolis

One theme present here is that "they lie," that is, the Administration. Vladeck also drops a striking footnote:

[FN 2] Schiltz’s second letter added other reasons why it has been difficult for judges in his court to conduct regular business: “I am also dealing with a number of emergencies, including a lockdown at the Minneapolis courthouse because of protest activity, the defiance of several court orders by ICE, and the illegal detention of many detainees by ICE (including, yesterday, a two-year old).”

Heather Cox Richardson includes something in her recent Substack that should be kept in mind as Senate Democrats make comments about additional DHS funding:

the July law the Republicans call the One Big Beautiful Bill Act [editor: are they five years old?] poured nearly $191 billion into DHS through September 30, 2029, with almost $75 billion going to ICE and $67 billion going to Customs and Border Protection (FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, got just $2.9 billion).

https://substack.com/inbox/post/185698852

[LexAquilia]

How do you reconcile that with the Court of Appeals pretty much siding with the DOJ re: probable cause and that it was the magistrate that was violating a century of precedent in a partisan manner?

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Anyone who disputes Vladeck's account is clearly a Dodgers fan.

[David Nieporent]

Easily: you're lying,. The Court of Appeals did not "pretty much" do any such thing. The Court of Appeals issued a one sentence ruling saying that DOJ's frivolous (my term, not theirs) request for mandamus was denied. It did not say that the magistrate judge was violating anything of anything. It did not make any statement of any sort about the merits, and it said nothing whatsoever about "partisan" anything.

Every word Voltage! writes is a Nazi lie.

[LexAquilia]

What was the DOJ's complaint?

That the magistrate should've issued the warrants. Both the District Judge that whinged and cried conceded that, AND the Court of Appeals.

Thus, doing exactly what I said. They "pretty much" affirmed the DOJs chief complaint, but denied it wholly because they still have other avenues to seek arrest warrants.

You filthy, lying rebel. You're doing the work of the CCP and Walz's other co-conspirators.

[David Nieporent]

Both the District Judge that whinged and cried conceded that, AND the Court of Appeals.

They did not. You are, again, just flat out lying. Neither the district judge nor the court of appeals "conceded" that, or indeed expressed any opinion of any sort about it. This is the entirety of the 8th Circuit's ruling:

Having considered the arguments of the United States and the response and supplemental response of the Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Minnesota, the Emergency Petition for Writ of Mandamus or Issuance of Arrest Warrants is hereby denied. The mandate shall issue forthwith.

There is no "conceding" anything. There is no expressing an opinion about their view of the merits.

[LexAquilia]

Ok, you little parsing CCP rebel insurrectionist, it was in the concurrence. Notice how you didn't mention that and you didn't mention how the very next paragraph that you omitted supported my premise.

I made a mistake because IANAL. You just lie because you have no integrity.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"I made a mistake because IANAL."

No, you made a mistake because you are a reading disabled moron.

[John F. Carr]

The most remarkable thing to me is the judge's comment about unrelated cases, "the defiance of several court orders by ICE, and the illegal detention of many detainees by ICE". The career Justice Department lawyers must be hoping they don't have to go into Judge Schiltz's courtroom.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The president was established 60 years ago, when state authorities aren’t going to deal with harassment of religious organizations, be at this one or the black churches in Birmingham, the feds will.

[John F. Carr]

This is the lawsuit by Philadelphia against the National Park Service over removal of slavery exhibits.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/72178941/city-of-philadelphia-v-burgum/

The media did a bad job of covering the story because their angle was "the evil Mr. Trump did something awful." As President he has a lot of power to do awful things without court interference. He could troll liberals with a monument to the victims of emancipation who had their valuable property set free.

According to the complaint, the city and the federal government have an agreement to jointly design the disputed exhibit and attempt to resolve disputes informally. There's the extra piece of information that turns this from a political disagreement to a potentially justiciable disagreement.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I have not kept up with the media accounts -- I welcome those who keep track of multiple media sources and aggregate such things.

I did a Google search using some of the words in your comment, and this article about the lawsuit came up:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/philadelphia-sues-trump-admin-removal-memorial-honoring-people/story?id=129497953

Seems relatively straightforward. Not keeping track, I'm not sure what "the media" said about "evil Mr. Trump" before that.

I'm not sure what the appropriate "angle" is supposed to be.

It is not wrong to address that Trump (or someone else) is doing awful things that are legally appropriate. That happens regularly. Government by troll can be called out.

Or not to focus on the legal angle overall. Local news reports often don't focus on legal issues when reporting on the news of the moment. There are specific places that do that.

Anyway, the lawsuit is also getting media attention, though I have not parsed it much.

The "potentially justiciable disagreement" is of some interest, but with all that is happening, it is unclear how newsworthy that would be. Discussing how Trump is doing something horrible and adding detail (so it is not just basically bland "Trump is bad" stuff) seems a reasonable way to report the story.

https://kevinmlevin.substack.com/p/slavery-exhibit-removed-at-national

[Dr. Ed 2]

For anybody who doesn’t understand that all of this ice stuff is nothing more than political activism from the left, an update on catch of the day:

https://www.themainewire.com/2026/01/is-this-what-democracy-looks-like/

Yes, this is what democracy looks like….

[seldomseensmith]

I'm genuinely confused by this article. The author claims he was "banned" from a rally, then proceeds to describe his experiences while attending the rally. Who "banned" him? The government? Or a private organization? Was he really banned, or just not invited? Demanding that private entities platform speech they find disagreeable is odious to the concept of free speech. That said, there is little doubt that some of the protesters at this event think the government should "do something" about the "right wing sewage" they think the Maine Wire produces. It seems our "free speech" debate is actually a debate between two illiberal factions, whose main disagreement centers not on whether, but on how, free speech is best restricted. Do we restrict disagreeable speech outright, or do we compel individuals to platform speech with which they disagree? I'd argue both approaches are poisonous to a free society.

[Magister]

tells me the Maine Wire posts “right-wing propaganda sewage” ... I ask for an example.

followed by this right-wing propaganda about the man shot in Minneapolis:

The border agent had every right to defend himself. That man wasn’t there for peaceful dialogue. He was there to cause chaos.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I was watching Brief Encounter (the original; not the horrible 1970s t.v. remake) again. The film is wonderful on multiple levels, including its cinematography and use of sound.

One thing that is so enjoyable is that the characters are such pleasant people. Their normalness is a large part of the point.

They are just two normal married people who strikingly fall in love with other people. They know that it is crazy and that there is no future in it. That doesn't change the reality.

That is the basic tragedy.

The film is mostly shown through the eyes of the woman. She is the sort of woman who is upset at herself when being annoyed at someone who is an annoying pest. Yes, they are being annoying, but it's sort of mean to have mean thoughts about that.

It's nice to remember that people deep down often are like the leads in the film. That includes the woman's husband, a nice guy who she loves, and who would be the one person she would talk about her experiences, except that it would hurt him so much.

Anyway, it's snowing. Yes, it's winter, but NYC usually doesn't get this much snow. Sunday is a good day for it, since during the week it would cause a lot more people problems.

[Dr. Ed 2]

More on the Boston University soon to be lawsuit:
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2026/01/24/law-firm-says-bu-failed-to-protect-student-who-reported-allston-car-wash-workers/?p1=hp_featurestack

He’s got legal representation, so this is going to get interesting. 99% of conservative students can’t get it and the universities know that, and he isn’t looking for a payout yet so they can’t just make him go away.

This could get really really interesting.

[John F. Carr]

As I wrote yesterday, I don't see a winning case in court. The school might grant the requested accomodation - transfer to another campus - just to avoid having to argue with lawyers.

[Dr. Ed 2]

What is never happened — YET — is a court ordering a university to issue a degree or to change grades. Those are active matters that courts don’t want to touch.

But if, hypothetically, a university prevented a student from attending classes and the student then either didn’t graduate or got lower grades, at a certain point this is no longer academic judgment.

Reduce CO at absurd, they ordered the campus. Please do not let the kid in the classroom. Him flunk in the course would no longer be an academic judgment.

One of the things I’ve noticed amongst well paid corporate council is that the possibility of a rogue ruling and a new president is always in the back of their minds. While I suspect a lot of this is the student building his creds for a career in DC, and when I don’t expect a court to rule on an academic matter, I never dreamed a court rule on gay marriage.

[David Nieporent]

What other campus?

[Dr. Ed 2]

The lawyer’s letter is here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y2A8Pfuc-vmJOGRvjYtNOGSsE0QFiRt0/view

[John F. Carr]

The letter cites Helfman v. Northeastern on the duties owed to students. As a freshman, plaintiff had drunken sex with another student and complained of sexual assault. The school ruled the act was not sexual assault but ordered the guy to stay away from her and offered to assign them to separate classes. This was an adequate response.

BU also offered to physically separate the student from potential aggressors.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/spr-jud-crt-mas-suf/2078644.html

[Josh R]

Shout outs to the nutcases LexAquila, C_XY (**), Publius, AmosArch and Michael P who (like they did when Good was killed) parrot the administration's bald-faced lies about Pretti and what happened to him. We have all seen the videos and only the most partisan Trump suck ups conclude what they conclude. And honorable mention to the normies Kazinski and Mr. Bumble who deflect from addressing these bald-faced lies by only saying people should not be protesting with a gun (blame the victim).

But the people are not happy with the gaslighting. When Good was killed, Trump's net approval on immigration was -8%-points (down from a net -4%-points in early November, which was down from +3%-points in early June). It's now down to -12%-points. It will likely continue to slide.

(**) C_XY is a normie except on Israel and immigration. He's like a werewolf with those two issues being full moons.

[hobie]

Dear AI, is there a psychological term for a person who likes seeing death?

"Key Psychological Terms and Concepts:

Morbid Curiosity: The impulse to look at, study, or learn about death, injury, or frightening things, often driven by a need to feel safer or understand danger.

Sadism/Sadistic Personality: Involves finding pleasure in the pain, suffering, or humiliation of others. This can range from "everyday sadism" (enjoying violent media) to extreme, antisocial behavior.

Thanatophilia: A term for a strong fascination with death or, in some contexts, sexual attraction to death and corpses.

Ghoulish: A descriptive term for someone fascinated by death, morbid things, or disasters.

Necromania: An obsession with death, corpses, or grave-robbing."

I'm going with Thanatophilia for our MAGAs, because there is not mere fascination, but also excitement/arousal. And whereas a normal person would hope that the next death be the last, the hayseeds actually call for more. Come to think of it, I don't believe psychology has adequately described the pathology of the MAGA mind. Someone needs to coin a term and win the Nobel.

[ThePublius]

"I'm going with Thanatophilia for our MAGAs, because there is not mere fascination, but also excitement/arousal."

You know, you're just a jerk.

[hobie]

Here, Pubes, I've come up with a few ideas already (I'll bet you can guess which is my favorite):

MAGAosis
MAGAlomania
MAGAgaipan
MAGAlidocious
MAGAsm

[Josh R]

The problem isn't they like seeing death. It's they see everything from a viewpoint inside Trump's rectum (except C_XY who is influenced by the full moon).

[hobie]

Yeah, but we've all watched how elated they get when we blow up people in the sea, or uncover mass graves in Gaza. I mean...it's a sickness, right?

[Josh R]

They didn't cheer Kirk being killed. You aren't helping by being a nutcase yourself.

[hobie]

"They didn't cheer Kirk being killed."

Of course they didn't. No one did. Ton's of people, including myself, rightly assailed his character.

But lately, human life seems to operate on two tiers for the MAGA. And when it comes to the Gazan people, with all the inhuman terms they apply to them, they may not be viewed as human at all. And I see the same sentiment starting to creep into their feelings towards American citizens. Which is dangerous.

[Riva]

“No one did”? A simple review of Bluesky postings easily enough exposes that bullshit lie. In fact, so would a contemporaneous review of comments here.

[santamonica811]

True. Hobie should have said, "No one here at the VC..." rather than a blanket statement covering the entire world.

I would say, in his defense, that people often use unconditional statements to, informally, mean "almost ___."
-"Donald Trump lies all the time." No, he doesn't. Of course he tells the truth a lot of the time. Almost certainly most of the time (ie, over 50%). Trump merely lies very very very very very very very very often. And the listeners/readers get that nuance in our English language.

-"Hillary Clinton never tells the truth about Benghazi." Yes, she does. She often told the truth, about most of that horrible situation. She was dishonest about much of the side-issue of her server that she kept at her house.

-"The Dodgers never win when X pitches." Not true. It's true that the Dodgers rarely win when this guy pitches. But they sometimes do.

It is fair to say that, when we consider the entire Internet, and how many fucking insane people post there every day, about every topic under the sun; there will be *somebody* who has made [crazy argument Y]. I agree that it's better English to say, "Almost no one has ever argued Y."...but if you were to write, "No one has ever argued Y." I'm not gonna force you to admit that, yes, a quick Google did show random idiot Bob Smith in Dunedin, New Zealand, did, in fact, argue Y specifically 3 years ago. I get what you were trying to say, even though you "wrongly" used an unqualified word like all, or none, or every, etc..

[Armchair]

Regarding this debate, one of the interesting items I increasingly hear more often is "This administration lies". Or in other words "The government is lying" and "Whatever they say, you can't trust it".

It leads to a dichotomy where the very facts of a case are open for interpretation. Where one side believes the government. And the other side believes its (partisan) news organization. It's a fascinating inversion of the sides during COVID where the government said one thing, but the (partisan) media said another. And of course believing the partisan media over the government was "believing in conspiracy theories"

[Josh R]

Unlike COVID, we have video. We know what the facts are. Are you with Lex and the rest of the nutcases?

[Michael P]

You putzes spent most of a week lying about the videos of the Good shooting. We're not going to start believing you now.

[Armchair]

"We know what the facts are. "

Do you? I've seen the video(s). Here are the facts.

1. There was a protestor.
2. Actively resisting federal agents
3. And he was armed.

After that....I honestly can't tell much. Can you go back, frame by frame, and point stuff out? Sure. Can you say "well, ICE shouldn't have been involved with him". Sure. Can you say "He has a right to carry a firearm". Sure.

But at the end of the day, you've got an armed protestor actively resisting federal agents. It is a situation designed for split second decisions to go wrong.

[Absaroka]

CNN vid

The timestamps are time-to-end-of-video. The disarm is about -1:40 or so (time displayed on lower right) . The shooting comes after that.

[Armchair]

". Can you go back, frame by frame, and point stuff out? Sure. "

[Absaroka]

You don't have time to watch 10 seconds of video, but have time to make lots of posts? I can only hold the spoon up to your lips.

[Armchair]

You're missing the point. You can go back, frame by frame, for 10 seconds, and point out stuff...taking your time.

Can a law enforcement officer do the same in real time, from every different law officer's perspective? No.

[Josh R]

Notice what you can't say is that Pretti was a domestic terrorist who brought a gun to massacre agents. Yet, that's what the administration and the nutcases I identified said. And others (like you) won't condemn the administration.

[Armchair]

Let's talk about Mr. Pretti. Why was he at that location? Why was he armed? With multiple clips? Did he live near there? Or was he called there?

[Sarcastr0]

Working hard to get ICE off the hook for killing him, eh?

JAQing off all over!

[Dr. Ed 2]

If this is an accidental discharge, which it very well may be, it then becomes a very tragic accident.

The interesting question is how many lawsuits have there been against the manufacturer for accidental discharge with this particula

[Josh R]

OK. I will you add you to the list of nutcase bald-faced liars. No normie status for you.

[Armchair]

" I will you add you to the list of nutcase bald-faced liars. "

Because I asked some questions? If asking questions makes someone a liar, then....

[Absaroka]

"Why was he armed? With multiple clips?"

Well, I'm generally armed whenever I have my pants on.

(I know folks who get keys/wallet/gun if they carry/etc when they leave the house, and dump them all when they get home. I'm not one of those people - my keys, wallet, pocket knife, small flashlight in winter, and gun stay in my pants all the time. When I change to a new pair of pants, it all moves to the new pair and stays until the next pair. FWIW, minimizing putting the gun on and taking it off minimizes the chance of oopsies.

It would be really convenient if I could check the calendar and see, oh, today at 4:30PM someone will try to mug me. But that's not how it works. I have known several people who used guns to defend themselves, and I don't think any of them had as much as 60 seconds notice.)

[Armchair]

Perhaps you are. But Pretti...his family said he was generally not armed.

"Family members said Pretti owned a handgun and had a permit to carry a concealed handgun in Minnesota. They said they had never known him to carry it."

https://coloradosun.com/2026/01/24/colorado-parents-minneapolis-protester-shot-killed/

So...why was he carrying it this time?

[jb]

Sorry, what's the active resistance that you're so clearly seeing? I guess it's plausible that he is, but it's equally likely that the ICE agents just decided to throw him to the ground and beat him up because they were power tripping. All you can really see is a bunch of ICE agents on top of him after they pepper spray him and one of them beating his face while another disarms him before they shoot him.

[Armchair]

"I guess it's plausible that he is"

[Sarcastr0]

Plausible doesn’t justify state power killing someone.

Keep posting these ghoulish attempts to ignore what’s on tape tomorrow and really show everyone what you are once again.

[jb]

Yes, unlike you I don't decide that something is a fact when the evidence is ambiguous.

[bernard11]

1. There was a protestor.

More a guy taking video of the scene, but it doesn't matter one way or the other.

2. Actively resisting federal agents

No. He was trying to assist a woman who had, for no apparent reason, been pushed down by ICE. She seems to have been injured, so he was doing what ICE should have done - call for or provide medical help.

3. And he was armed.

Yes. He had a perfectly legal gun in a holster. He did not brandish it or threaten anyone with it. Further, he was disarmed by ICE while eight agents had him on the ground, pummeling and kicking him. This was patently an ICE riot. Then, with him disarmed and kneeling on the sidewalk they shot him to death.

But at the end of the day, you've got an armed protestor actively resisting federal agents. It is a situation designed for split second decisions to go wrong.

He was disarmed before the shooting. The shooting was not a "split second decision." It was considered and utterly unjustified.

What else?

[Armchair]

How long was there between him being disarmed and the shooting? You seem to know this? Exactly how long, in seconds?

[Sarcastr0]

It’s on tape! What the fuck is wrong with you.

[David Nieporent]

on tape!

Video, boomer.

[Armchair]

Then answer the question. How many seconds?

If it's so on tape, you should be able to answer. But you don't.

[Bunny495]

"But the people are not happy with the gaslighting. When Good was killed, Trump's net approval on immigration was -8%-points (down from a net -4%-points in early November, which was down from +3%-points in early June). It's now down to -12%-points. It will likely continue to slide."

I will see your -12% and raise you "Some 57 percent of Americans believe that ICE agents “should be able to do their job without being impeded or harassed,”". At least I have a link for my raise. I tend to take polls with a grain of salt for the record.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-ice-agitators-and-legal-observers-losing-strong-majority-of-public-support-new-poll/ar-AA1UVFTN

[Magister]

6 in 10 say ICE tactics go too far: Survey
Public opinion shifts on ICE as advocates warn of US ‘inflection point’
Those (the latter describes multiple polls) and your poll were before the shooting of Alex Pretti but after the shooting of Renee Good. Your poll is from Plymouth Union Public Research, which is conservative leaning.

[Magister]

Somehow botched the second link:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/21/public-opinion-shifts-on-ice-as-advocates-warn-of-us-inflection-point

[Josh R]

I don't doubt your poll results. They are perfectly consistent with the eroding support for Trump's approval on immigration because the normies see these two videos and conclude the administration is outright lying in their justifications.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I think this comment is, if anything, generous in listing "normies."

[John F. Carr]

In Water, Water Every Hare Bugs Bunny is in a fight with a mad scientist and his fuzzy monster when a container of ether is broken. Everybody goes into slow motion and becomes sleepy.

That is what America needs right now. A giant cloud of something calming drifting over the country.

According to Wikipedia, ether is no longer on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. When the film was made ether was well known as an anaesthetic.

[Brett Bellmore]

Shouldn't that be "Ether were well known"? 😉

[santamonica811]

heh

[hobie]

I was just thinking yesterday that my favorite Bugs Bunny episodes were when Cecil the turtle was whoopin' his ass.

[Frank Drackman]

I loved the one where he was pissed that the bounty on Rabbits was so low (2 Cents), so he Paints the Washington Monument like a Barber Pole, Turns off Niagra Falls, Sells Manhattan back to the Indians, Saws off Florida, Steals the Locks from the Panama Canal, fills up the Grand Canyon, and when some Cornpone Senator says
"Ah Say! that Hay-uh must Die!!"
Bugs says, "Hair! Die! Hair-Dye! you made a funny!!!"
Entire War Dept goes after Bugs and he ends up in Alcatraz....

Frank

[hobie]

Of all the cartoons from the day, nothing...ah say nothing can top seeing Donald Duck explode in anger after getting a sewing needle shoved up his ass. (The same thing happening to Tom is the distant runner up)

[Josh R]

I vote for this one (after Bugs was drafted).

[Frank Drackman]

Ew! Ew! Ew! Mistuh Kott-Air, I know the answer!!!!
Chemically an "Ether" is an Oxygen Atom linked to 2 separate Carbon Atoms, the Carbons being part of an Aryl or Alkyl Group.
Clear as Mud? OK, so "Ether" is actually "Di-Ethyl Ether" an Oxygen Atom linked to 2 Ethyl Groups.
The currently used Volatile Anesthetics are "Halogenated Ethers", with one of the Hydrogen Atoms of Di-Ethyl Ether substituted with a Halogen (usually Chlorine or Fluorine). I've never been any place that still had Di-Ethyl Ether but ironically, I was born under it's influence.
1962, Crawford Wong Hospital in Atlanta, nobody got Epidurals, but Laboring women could get a mask linked to an Ether vaporizer, and turn it up or down as needed. More Ironically, Crawford Wong was the first Physician to use Ether, In Georgia, 1842, the loser who did it in Boston was just the first to publicize it.
Ether does have some good points, it's cheap, easy to administer with minimal training, (it's what Albert Schweitzer had his Native Anesthetists use (cue Insulting Crack from Hobie) and relatively safe for the patient.
Bad thing is it tends to go Bang-ie if exposed to Sparks, you know, the Cauterizing instruments Surgeons love to turn blood into Charcoal with.
So they came out with Halothane, which was better than Ether, but more dangerous, Methoxyflurane even more dangerous and would take out your Kidneys if you got too much, Enflurane which was like the Edsel of Anesthetics, OK, but failed, and the Big Daddy, Isoflurance, which IS on the WHO's list.
There's also Desflurane which gives you a rapid Sleepy and a rapid Waky but requires a heated pressurized Vaporizer, and Sevoflurane, my Favorite, because it smells so good, I mean because you can use it for a mask induction with kiddies.

"Ether's" still used as a term, sort of like "Xerox" and some (usually Old) Surgeons will call the Drape separating them from the Gas Passer the "Ether Screen" (We call it the "Brain:Blood Barrier", see, we're the Brains on our side, and they're the Blood on their side)

Frank

[Absaroka]

The best video compilation I have seen so far of the Pretti shooting. Judge for yourselves.

[Frank Drackman]

Does he still die at the end?

[LexAquilia]

Yes, we get a happy ending.... just like at the massage parlor.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Back in 1992, some trigger-happy cops murdered a woman by the name of Kathy Hagerty in her cabin in northern Somerset County Maine, near the Canadian border. https://www.pressherald.com/2012/12/08/shoot-arrest-at-remote-cabin-turns-deadly-angers-public/

Do a lot of problems with that, starting with the coroner stating that the bullets found inside her contained traces of the exterior wall and headset traveled through that first — the cops were outside the cabin, firing into it, and not inside it as they alleged.

What really came out of this was that you had two different apartments, no clarification of which particular officer was in charge, and a very, very poor procedural training as to what you’re doing in situations like this. The sheriff was soundly, defeated in the next election, and after a few more situations like this, the state developed a unit of the state police that had jurisdiction for situation like this with other cops told to call them.

I see four things in that video montage. First, everything is happening really fast, so fast that they have to slow it down and we’re not there worrying about getting shot ourselves. Second, it’s from multiple viewing angles, while each officer only has his own.

So it’s one thing to have multiple cameras and the ability to slow and stop and rewind any of them, but we need to remember that those officers didn’t have this. Legal precedent, if it means anything, is there a shooting has to be evaluated in light of what the officers saw and we’re thinking out there on the scene and not here in our living rooms.

Third, and this is why I’m saying, commanding control and training, once the weapon was recovered, how was that information conveyed to the other officers? They totally has a gun, they’re not told that he no longer does, and hence they are required to presume he still does. When this all gets sorted out, that’s gonna be an important point here.

It doesn’t help that you have random officers drawn from all over the country, people who haven’t trained together, who haven’t worked together, who don’t instinctively know what other people are gonna be doing. They may not even know each other‘s names.

This is one of the things that came out of Kent State — the need to spend money on officer training so they don’t fuck up…

There should be a protocol for which officer goes for the gun, and when he does, let people know that he’s got it, and we don’t yet know that it wasn’t an accidental discharge here. Was his finger on the trigger when he lifted the weapon up in the air, is the weapon in good repair or does it have a hair trigger?

This is relevant because once the officers are told that he has a gun, the trained response upon hearing a gunshot is for them to all shoot him. And even after he is down, to presume that he still has his weapon and may start shooting at them, which is why they all backed off.

Fourth is the fact that blowing a whistle is often authorization to fire. That’s why the people blowing the whistles in the background is a contributing factor here — many departments are taught to wait until the commanding officer blows his whistle before firing, and they heard whistles being blown.

Even if one of the ice guys had possession of the weapon, which appears to be the case I still consider this shooting justified I say that on two levels — first legally when compared to other cases of qualified immunity. The Hagerty case. The grotesque case of Lifeline ambulance versus McCabe, where the Lynn police dragged an obese, elderly woman down a flight of stairs body slammed her face down into an ambulance only later realize she was no longer breathing. That’s acceptable in the first circuit, and she wasn’t even accused of committing a crime.

On my realistic basis, in the midst of the bedlam that existed, I can see these offices shooting, and I can justify it. Even if the guy who grabbed the gun shouted that it was secured, how were the other officers ever hear it and I’d really like to know if there was an accidental . Or if some third-party fired a round just to exacerbate things.

Remember that we really do not know who fired first at Lexington. My guess is that was a third party. We really don’t know who fired first at Kent State, if the guard were shot at before firing or not.

The message here is that some police agency should’ve secured a perimeter and this man is dead because they didn’t.

And FAFO….

[Magister]

We really don’t know who fired first at Kent State, if the guard were shot at before firing or not.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

The FBI determined that at least two guardsmen who denied firing likely lied and had fired and that there was reason to believe that guardsmen's claims of fearing for their lives were fabricated after the event.

A subsequent FBI investigation concluded that the Guard was not under fire and that the guardsmen fired the first shots.

The FBI in that time did a lot of bad things, but I cannot see what would motivate them to issue those conclusions if they were not correct.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I can. — it was dirty hippies that got shot,

[Magister]

The FBI loved dirty hippies enough to cover up that they shot at the National Guard?

[LexAquilia]

CNN analyzed cellphone footage of immigration officers fatally shooting Alex Pretti in Minneapolis. Taken together, they appear at odds with the Department of Homeland Security’s claims about the killing

That's why you think it's the best, it's been edited and crafted to support your preexisting narratives.

[Frank Drackman]

Funny that Nurse Pretti's (See what I did there? remember "Nurse Betty"??? I said "Nurse Pretti")
Husband hasn't shown up.
Also where are Gavin New-Scum??, the Very(Wrong) Reverend Sharpton??, Bernie S??, Hillary Rodman??, and his Holiness himself, Barry Hussein Osama (Peace be upon Him) why aren't they "Down with the People"????? Jeez, not even Tampon-Tim or Ill-hand Omar has shown their faces.

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

Frank, for you. https://www.themainewire.com/2026/01/maine-naval-air-museum-announces-reunion-as-p-8-cousin-of-predecessor-p-3-flies-defensive-cover-for-trump/

[Frank Drackman]

In the Spirit of Charity, going to give you my "Lock" Picks for todays games, I abso-to-lutely "Guarantee" them.
If you lose, I'll give you 2 more Picks, no Charge.
And it's actually 4 Picks, with the Over/Under

Take Broncos +3.5 the Over at 41.5
Take Seattle -1.5 the Under at 47.5

Over the years the "Drackman Method" has consistently beaten all the so-called "Experts" I don't care about Strength of Schedule, Common Opponents, Home Field,
It's all what Colors/Mascots I like, and who has the more obnoxious fans.
There it, is, free Money, free Shekels, just waiting for you to pick it up, to take it, are you man enough to take it!?!?!?!?!?

Frank

[LexAquilia]

Here's how to tell if you're under the influence of foreign ops:
When you watch the Pretti videos:

Do you see the armed activist getting handsy with the LEO's doing their job?

Or do you see some innocent nurse who just happened to be there rushing to the aid of a fallen protestor, just to get summarily executed?

[John F. Carr]

What comes to my mind is the beginning of a particular Martin Amis novel where the reader is offered the hope that all the characters will die. I don't feel an obligation to see a good guy and a bad guy. Pixar likes to have no bad guys. Real life can end up with no good guys.

[LexAquilia]

https://x.com/camhigby

This guy is doing the Lord's work. Outing all these subversives. Many are scarily politically connected. (Walz's daughter!! )

[Dr. Ed 2]

If you have armed men with rifles, keeping federal officers out of the community, that is an insurrection.

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2026/01/24/community-members-with-rifles-stand-guard-in-minneapolis-where-armed-man-was-shot/

[LexAquilia]

Pretti is on video setting up a blockade to obstruct LEO's.

That's what started this whole confrontation. An armed saboteur targeting the lawful government actions.

That's insurrection. That's rebellion. His demise? That's justice.

[SRG2]

For once a whataboutism makes sense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

Nobody called that an insurrection.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

In The Discovery Of India, Nehru writes, “The scientific approach, the adventurous and yet critical temper of science, the search for truth and new knowledge, the refusal to accept anything without testing and trial, the capacity to change previous conclusions in the face of new evidence, the reliance on observed fact and not on pre-conceived theory, the hard discipline of the mind, all this is necessary, not merely for the application of science but for life itself and the solution of its many problems.”

https://sabrangindia.in/nehru-and-culture-scientific-temper

[This came up in the most recent weekly FFRF podcast, which is available on its website and YouTube.]

[hobie]

So let's say an ICE agent is in his car, and some angry diminutive nurse starts kicking his window. She eventually shatters the window and starts climbing in.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Is this an ICE porn film?

[hobie]

To some it's porn.

[LexAquilia]

Holy shit.

Walz's Lt. Governor is an admin on the Signal groups that are attacking our federal officers and they have illegally captured 5000 plates to report ICE vehicles. These are State sanctioned attacks on federal officers.

Investigative Reporter Peter Schweizer has evidence that the Democrat party is also coordinating with 53 Mexican consulates.

We have a State coordinating with a foreign nation to obstruct and attack federal officers. This is treason. This is going kinetic.

Trump needs to send in the Army and depose the rebel leaders. Let's pray for our soldiers and let's pray their arms are steady and their aim is accurate as they protect our Democracy from foreign and domestic threats.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It’s worse than that. See:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0063422506/reasonmagazinea-20/

[Michael P]

The behavior of the protesters that is described at https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2026/01/25/the-left-doesnt-want-you-to-know-this-about-the-man-shot-by-border-patrol-n4948728 evinces an expectation of illegal activity and determination to both hide the conspiracy and destroy evidence of the conspirators' actions. And Alex Pretti was part of this conspiracy. Unsurprising.

[Absaroka]

I don't approve of people following ICE around blowing whistles and what have you.

I also don't approve of shooting disarmed people in the back.

There is just no way to spin this shooting as justifiable.

[jb]

FWIW, the existence of these coordinated efforts isn't exactly some secret that PJ Media had to unearth. Here's an article written by someone participating in one of them that roughly matches the findings of the PJ article:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2026/01/arrested-for-observing-ice-minnesota-lesson.html

Of course you're fixating on the "OMG people are following ICE around" part and not the "ICE Is arresting people to prevent them from documenting their abuses" or "ICE is unnecessarily shooting people" part. Turns out that all of these things can be true at the same time, though.

[Michael P]

It would be entirely different if these protesters were just trying to document abuses by ICE. That was not the goal. They have a long-developed playbook:

1. Aggressively interfere with law enforcement, violently when they think they can get away with it.
2. Raise the temperature in these confrontations, in an effort to provoke a strong response.
3. Try to prevent third parties from recording the proceedings.
4. Selectively edit and distort whatever happens in an attempt to smear law and order.
5. Anarchy.

This playbook really started taking off with the Occupy Wall Street movement -- defending illegal immigrants is just the latest excuse, after Wall Street and BLM and other excuses in the past two decades, targeting state and local law enforcement as well as federal. Renee Good and Alex Pretti both miscalculated what violence they could get away with... with foreseeable results given the deadly weapons involved in each case.

Remember these two ladies, exercising mob action as part of step 3? https://nypost.com/2020/07/28/2-women-charged-with-beating-wisconsin-lawmaker-amid-protest/ Remember the "hands up, don't shoot" hoax? I mentioned the hoax against the Covington High students earlier.

[MarkJawz]

Exactly. At this point, martial law needs to be declared, and any protest against ICE considered sedition. Use overwhelming force to crush these people, and do so swiftly, harshly and surely.

[jb]

Of course, even your PJ Media article doesn't attempt to make any of these claims. This is just Michael P fan fic, or something you're regurgitating without bothering to source at all.

By the way, if there's concern about these folks somehow stopping recording of these events, a good counter would probably be for ICE to use body cams. Most other law enforcement does so routinely, but for some reason DHS and ICE don't feel it's necessary despite engaging in some of the most problematic law enforcement behavior these days. (Coincidence?)

[BrotherMovesOn]

jb, I appreciate your comments here, and engagement can be a good thing, but I'd ask, with respect to the thing calling itself MarkJawz, is it really worth a second of your time?

[SRG2]

Trump judge enjoins the Regime from destroying evidence related to the Pretti shooting:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mnd.230788/gov.uscourts.mnd.230788.10.0_1.pdf

[John F. Carr]

A judge referred to the major questions doctrine in the case about Trump's new ballroom. Did Congress really intend for a law authorizing renovations to also authorize major construction?

In my opinion, the issue is complicated by the use of outside funding. If the major questions doctrine applies, did Congress implicitly forbid major construction or did Congress implicitly forbid spending major amounts of appropriated funds on construction?

Bloomberg Law says the judge questioned Trump's authority to have the old structure demolished. The demolition is done and a case over demolition would be moot. The complaint includes a request for an injunction against "additional work" so there is some relief to be granted. 1:25-cv-04316 in the District Court for the District of Columbia.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/judge-questions-trump-authority-to-build-white-house-ballroom
https://apple.news/A7vYmme5-Ts2NUGJS3RPtRQ

The Wikipedia article about plaintiff National Trust for Historic Preservation has plenty of buzzwords:

The National Trust’s current work focuses on building sustainable communities through the adaptive reuse of historic spaces; preserving and empowering cultural diversity through protecting sites of cultural significance; advocating for greater stewardship of historic places on public land; and leading innovation in the management of historic properties.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Trump can hide behind a national security argument, argue that Franklin Roosevelt’s bunker, designed to protect from the threats of the 1940s, did not meet current presidential needs. Which of course is classified. The people suing are not cleared to read that stuff.

[ducksalad]

The more general issue that needs to be addressed by law - the next time we have a non-toady Congress - is whether the president can raise and use non-governmental funds to do things Congress has declined to fund.

The vesting-clause zealouts who keep saying that Congress can place no direct regulations at all on how the President runs the executive branch internally like to claim it's OK, they're not reducing Congress to nothing, because Congress still has the "power of the purse" to shut down activities they don't approve of.

They are in fact reducing Congress to nothing if the president can simply raise large sums outside the normal revenue process.

[Longtobefree]

Congress has reduced itself to nothing; no executive branch help was required.

[LexAquilia]

Its just part of the mandatory spending.

Remember how Congress created "mandatory spending" so they could pretend they are forced to fund at those rates and then get to play budget kabuki theater on the remaining 15% of the budget that is discretionary?

[Frank Drackman]

Tampon-Tim should get a Medal for retiring from the Guard and not inflicting his Leadership on his Unit.

[SRG2]

The Obamas' statement on the Pretti shooting:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_hqlKbWYAEgdVV?format=png&name=900x900

[Frank Drackman]

Let me guess, they're against it?

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Let me guess, they're against it?"

And you, REMF that you are, are for it?

[Frank Drackman]

Rear Echelon Mother Fucker?
Kuwait City Feb 1991 wasn't exactly "Rear Echelon"
You know who WAS a Rear Echelon Mother Fucker?
(and probably a Rear Fucker also)
Your Minnesota Governor Tampon-Tim Waltz.
Actually he was too big of a Pussy to even serve in the rear, retiring when his Unit finally got sent somewhere nasty.

Frank

[Stella Link's Ghost]

Yeah, Frank the war hero combat veteran. Lies about his own record as he lies about Waltz retiring in order to avoid a deployment as well as he lies about Mary Jo Kopechne's (note the spelling, dipshit) cause of death and George Floyd's cause of death. True Trump sucker.

[LexAquilia]

I guarantee that piece of shit is out there to stir the pot.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

Shouldn't you be fantasizing about having the gauge of your butthole expanded?

[LexAquilia]

Why? Your wife's bull lookin' for a good time?

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Why?"

Because fantasizing about a happy ending at the massage parlor is just no longer sufficient to put lead in that little pencil of yours. You are obviously in desperate need of a prostate massage.

[LexAquilia]

>The invasion of Cities Church was even worse than we thought.

Agitators blocked stairs so "parents were unable to get to their children" at Sunday School.

One told a kid, "Do you know your parents are Nazis, they're going to burn in hell?"

----

This judge who didn't think these people should be arrested saw this same fact. The judge who saw this evidence decided that it doesn't warrant them to be held nor have any bond.

These judges are not judges but just a bunch of 'not guilty's out there implementing their twisted version of the law where they start at the end and work backwards.

The rebels are brazen.

[David Nieporent]

This judge who didn't think these people should be arrested saw this same fact.

What element of a federal crime do you think that allegation (not "fact") establishes?

The judge who saw this evidence decided that it doesn't warrant them to be held nor have any bond.

What factor of a bail determination do you think that evidence relates to?

[LexAquilia]

https://x.com/Milajoy/status/2015533747228344814

Can you see Pretti's left hand as he draws his weapon on the advancing LEO?

Look. Do not deflect. Do you see it?

[hobie]

I watched his left hand carefully during the entire clip. It was empty the entire time. It was. So where's the part where he's holding a gun? Can you give more-or-less the time where he's holding the gun?

[David Nieporent]

WTF does that have to do with the church harassers being arrested?

And no, there is nothing even remotely resembling a gun in his left hand.

[jay.tee]

It’s his left hand with his thumb stuck out, not a gun.

Was he even left handed?

[MarkJawz]

The same so-called federal crime your hero Pedo Joe prosecuted old ladies under for praying outside abortion clinics.

You are truly a despicable, evil human.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

David. You have been chastised by one of the worst of the mindless Trump suckers. How will you survive this obloquy?

[Brett Bellmore]

Attorney General Bondi Reprehensibly Ties End of ICE Actions in Minnesota to the State Releasing Its Voter Rolls to DOJ

Spoiler: She didn't even hint at it. Instead she just listed things the state should be doing instead of attacking ICE.

Seriously, this is one of the worst cases of motivated incomprehension I've seen since the last Sarcastr0 reply I read.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Spoiler: She didn't even hint at it. "

What does the article actually say?
"It suggests (but doesn’t quite promise) an ICE stand down in exchange for access to the voting rolls "

Obviously, it's the writers inference. You're a fine one to complain about "motivated incomprehension" or possibly unjustifed inferences.

[Brett Bellmore]

And I'm pointing out that his 'inference' is utterly lacking in any basis in what she wrote.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

" utterly lacking in any basis in what she wrote"

You must be referring to a different letter as the letter to which you linked? It's not in any way an unjustified inference.

[ducksalad]

I agree that Bondi did not mention the possibility of ending ICE actions, so the headline is misleading. I don't see that she even hinted at stopping enforcement, if anything the tone implied the opposite.

That doesn't mean that her letter makes a lot of sense. She complains about the unrest and attacks on federal officers, and then says three things will bring back "law and order":

- Sharing Medicaid and SNAP records
- Ending sanctuary city policies
- Federal access to voter registration rolls

I'm asking you - do you think any people attacking federal officers in Minnesota are even a tiny bit influenced by these three items?

Do you think Pretti would have woken up that morning and thought "Oh, they released the voter rolls. I guess because of that, there's no point to arming myself and confronting ICE"?

Do you think Good would have told the officer "Just heard about Medicaid. I was really here about the Somali fraud issue and now it's resolved. I'm so sorry I got in your way, let me very carefully and super slowly put the car in reverse, with your permission."?

Obviously there's no connection. So no, I don't think Bondi was offering a quid pro quo. I think she was just engaging in the now familiar tactic of mentioning unrelated things together, over and over, to join the issues together in the minds of people at a sub- or semi-conscious level.

She wants to build the idea that the street violence, the Medicaid scandal, and the voter rolls are the same thing. If and when she does something to intervene in their election process, she wants people to think about ICE agents being attacked and Medicaid fraud.

[Kenneth Almquist]

Bondi introduces the list of actions by writing:

You and your office must restore the rule of law, support ICE officers, and bring an end to the chaos in Minnesota. Fortunately, there are common sense solutions to these problems that I hope we can accomplish together.

One of the three items on the list is giving the DoJ access to voter rolls.

Bondi doesn’t explicitly say that the chaos in Minnesota will continue until Minnesota does what she asks, but I think that this can be described as a pretty clear hint.

[MarkJawz]

Good. Too bad Trump doesn't just order the air force to carpet bomb these blue cities, and flatten them like Dresden.

[ducksalad]

I’m building, on top of everything else that I am doing, one of the greatest and most beautiful Ballrooms anywhere in the World, with more than 300 Million Dollars of Great American Patriots’ money, and working closely with, right from the beginning, the United States Military and Secret Service. This is a GIFT (ZERO taxpayer funding!) to the United States of America, of 300 to 400 Million Dollars (depending on the scope and quality of interior finishes!), for a desperately needed space, sought for over 150 years by previous Presidents and Administrations, so that the White House would no longer be forced to use a cheap and unsafe “tent,” for big and important STATE EVENTS, Dinners, Meetings, Conferences, and already scheduled future INAUGURATIONS (for safety, security, and capacity purposes!), on a very wet, and subject to weather, White House lawn. Making such a large gift to the U.S.A. was thought to be, by almost everyone, “A WONDERFUL THING TO DO” — But no, as usual, I got sued, this time by the Radical Left National (No!)Trust for Historic Preservation, a group that couldn’t care less about our Country! All of the Structural Steel, Windows, Doors, A.C./Heating Equipment, Marble, Stone, Precast Concrete, Bulletproof Windows and Glass, Anti-Drone Roofing, and much more, has been ordered (or is ready to be), and there is no practical or reasonable way to go back. IT IS TOO LATE! Why didn’t these obstructionists and troublemakers bring their baseless lawsuit much earlier? Congress never tried, or wanted, to stop the Ballroom Project! Everyone knew what was taking place at the White House — A great, big, beautiful gift to the United States of America! For those that are interested, the tiny East Wing was so “bastardized” and changed, built and rebuilt over the years, that it bore no resemblance or relationship to the original building. The so-called “preservationists,” who get their money from the most unusual of places, should not be allowed to stop this desperately needed addition to our GREAT White House, a place that a President has never needed permission to change or enhance, because of the special grounds on which it sits, no matter how big (and important!), that enhancement may be. Additionally, in this instance, it is being done with the design, consent, and approval of the highest levels of the United States Military and Secret Service. The mere bringing of this ridiculous lawsuit has already, unfortunately, exposed this heretofore Top Secret fact. Stoppage of construction, at this late date, when so much has already been ordered and done, would be devastating to the White House, our Country, and all concerned. Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DONALD J. TRUMP

1. Falsely claims the services of the military and the Secret Service cost the taxpayers zero.
2. Expects us to be impressed by the "consent" and "approval" of the military and Secret Service when he and his lawyers have spent a whole year telling us that under the unitary executive theory, both are required to consent and approve anything he orders them to.
3. Bullshit about something being Top Secret but now he's been forced to reveal it.

Note: If some other president wanted to do this, I would merely think it was a stupid waste of money that Congress ought to disapprove, and if they didn't, well sigh just another boondoggle and not among the biggest. But his lying and strategy to evade public oversight of a government building on government property put this in a different category.

[LexAquilia]

https://x.com/Milajoy/status/2015533747228344814

You can see Pretti draw his weapon in his left hand as the LEO is advancing.

You brainwashed clowns are outraged over a fucking guy who drew on armed LEO's. How many domestic terrorists are going to die over this lie?

Not enough. But still.

[hobie]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=122158033724933842&set=a.122096023256933842&__cft__%5B0%5D=AZaDh-GNY1mjbBi7DACVtdXPdjfMBIleXgMt-GNQhKBEugu5E4VkhHOuGL5iWgpuMXDQ1iO0sI5GXX9g8Uk4iiaqVQ7T2P_4k6p1fROC5TnqBmG99i7VhTUPPNFaPgT-TUDxzPwNQXFxKaiV9LShc0YlZ1302NkPu40yegsm3jlSNUi9PX_y1n67SB1WOgS0BDgYDBgTlnvfbFwtOXo35QKYj2Vu9xoHDqHbrt7OL9Kwaw&__tn__=EH-y-R

[LexAquilia]

No one can see that without logging into facebook. Unreal, are you like 90 years old? lmao You with ancient facebook and that one dude whose cultural references come from the 80s. lmao you ppl are f'n old af

In the video I linked, can you see him drawing his weapon in his left hand? Yes or no. Do not deflect. Just answer.

[ducksalad]

No. And you can't see it either.

[ducksalad]

What a dumbass lie, just to get us to waste 30 seconds.

VC readers: The whole video is before he was even on the ground. It shows while standing up his arms were in a position where he could have - but didn't - drawn his weapon. There is a never a gun in the hand. LexAquilla is simply flat lying about the content of the video.

Even if it was true, it would still be irrelevant.

[MarkJawz]

https://images.wsj.net/im-93194999?width=700&height=700

Look at these limp-wristed balding buffoon. Anyone mourning this loser is as much of a loser as he was.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Pats won a 10-7 game.

Denver gave up a turnover that led to 7 for the Pats and gave up a chance for three points early. The Pats went for more too, got that yard, but was stopped from getting more than three.

But those three early in the third quarter clinched the deal. A missed long FG before the half also factored in.

Now for the night game.

[BrotherMovesOn]

A great victory in insane conditions.
First team ever to go 9-0 on the road in a season.
One more "road" game to win.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Seattle wins after stopping the Rams on 4th and Goal.

No points in the fourth quarter after the teams exchanged points in the first three. Figure Seattle is favored in the Super Bowl.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I don't approve of people following ICE around blowing whistles and what have you.

I also don't approve of shooting disarmed people in the back.

I think blowing whistles and what have you is not wrong-minded behavior when the people involved are shooting disarmed people in reckless and criminal ways, and what have you.

I appreciate that the "normies," or whatever you want to call the people involved, have some minimum level of right and wrong. But too many people don't want a strong enough response.

"I'm against racism, but I'm not really for those protesters sitting at lunch counters like that. That is private property. And that Martin Luther King Jr. is doing some questionable things. I don't support using firehoses and dogs and all that. But, you know, he goes too far. And, the courts need to slow down. Be reasonable."

[David Nieporent]

So on the "They lie and they lie and they lie" front, Bovino — who has already been found by a federal judge to have perjured himself — said that when Pretti was killed DHS was trying to arrest Jose Huerta-Chuma, who had "a record of domestic assault, intentional infliction of bodily harm and disorderly conduct."

Now, that doesn't really sound like "the worst of the worst" anyway, but according to Minnesota Jose Huerta-Chuma has never been in prison in Minnesota, has nothing but some minor traffic offenses, and records indicate that he was in federal immigration custody in 2018, but was released during the first Trump administration for reasons known only to Trump.

[MarkJawz]

Who says that ICE is only there to arrest the worst of the worst? Jose Huerta-Chuma, doesn't belong in America. He's an Injun who belongs back in Ecuador.

[BrotherMovesOn]

Are there men with oversized butterfly nets outside your window? Better to check.