The Art of the Deal Goes to Norway

Great Moments in Twenty-First Century International Diplomacy

President Donald Trump apparently sent the following letter to prime minister Jonas Gahr Støre of Norway:

Dear Jonas: Considering your Country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped 8 Wars PLUS, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of Peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America.

Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China, and why do they have a 'right of ownership' anyway? There are no written documents, it's only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago, but we had boats landing there, also.

I have done more for NATO than any other person since its founding, and now, NATO should do something for the United States. The World is not secure unless we have Complete and Total Control of Greenland. Thank you! President DJT

President Trump also reportedly directed that this letter be shared with multiple NATO member ambassadors.

Comments

[SRG2]

No-one rational can defend such a preposterous letter, nor the mental state of its author.

[Botaglove]

He's a lunatic. An aging narcissistic weird one. So we now get to see who is really in the cult and who isn't.

[David Nieporent]

Yes; this is clearly a 25th amendment situation at this point. The man is mentally ill. Kristi Noem ought to put him out of his misery.

[Riva]

Because of a "letter," or supposed piecemeal text messages, allegedly leaked by the office of the Norwegian PM? But we don't know and who would take the word of a piece of shit who would self-servingly leak portions of private messages behind the back of the sender? Let alone when allegedly communicating with the President. Only a TDS piece of shit like my friend crazy Dave.

[David Nieporent]

self-servingly leak portions of private messages

"The problem isn't that Trump is mentally ill; the problem is that people are revealing it." But only a bot programmed by a retarded person would contend that a message from one national leader to another is a "private message."

[Krayt]

Strategically he would assume it gets leaked; that was the purpose of such an outrageous thing.

Decades ago I worked briefly for an EU company with about 2000 employees. The CEO had gotten tapped to be a minister in one of the governments.

He sent out a mass email to all 2000 employees talking about the new job, but it's a secret! Don't tell anyone!

[Riva]

Whether he could or should have assumed a leak is most definitely not the point. The point is that text above is being misrepresenting as the original message. It is most definitely not. It could be an accurate representation of the message, it could be a badly re-translated version of the original, it could be an AI summary. Who knows?

[Riva]

All communications between governments and even legislative hearings, are not public you fucking imbecile. Could 2 heads of state engage in non-public communications? Yeah you idiotic gaslighting fuck, they can and do.

[Frank Drackman]

Someone should put you out of yours.
LD50 of Tylenol's 2000mg/Kg, just saying.

Frank

[David Bremer]

Kristi Noem ought to put him out of his misery.

Except she's the lapdog, not the other way around.

[David Nieporent]

No-one rational can defend such a preposterous letter, nor the mental state of its author.

If normal people had said in 2024 that this is what Trump would do if elected, MAGA would have sneered and called it TDS.

[Riva]

I thought it wasn't a "letter"? Make up your gaslighting shithead minds.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

You are giving mindless pedantry a bad name.

[David Nieporent]

Why did you think it wasn’t a letter? And what difference does it make if it was a letter, a tweet, or a singing telegram? It's unhinged and delusional.

And please for the love of god learn what the word "gaslighting" means.

[Riva]

So it is back to a letter again? WTF? Get your gaslighting shit together rent-a-troll asshole. What are they paying you?

[Baseballhead]

This is what it looks like when someone desperately does not want to talk about the crazy words that were written.

[Riva]

The art of the journalistic fraud comes to Volokh. This is not an actual communication from President Trump to any prime minister. Any actual letter is not part of the public record. This is not a real communication or a copy of any real communication. It is journalistic (make that yellow journalistic) commentary.

[Jon S]

Is this English?

[Riva]

If you actually have a copy of an original letter sent by President Trump, don't keep it to yourself.

[Ridgeway]

It was a text, not a letter. Not sure how that makes anything better.

Here is an article with various links. The Norwegian govt has apparently said the messages are genuine, and that Trump advised they should be shared.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/19/us/politics/trump-norway-prime-minister-texts-greenland.html

[Riva]

Whatever it is, my gaslighting friend, it is not the original of anything. Neither is an article from The NY Times "with various links." Is that the new "anonymous sources with reliable information"? They had a lot of experience with that during the Russian collusion fraud.

Not this may accurately convey the sentiment of the message. But, here's the point, it is NOT the message. Why is it so difficult to simply admit, yeah this isn't the actual words but merely, at best, representations of the actual words?

[jb]

Riva doesn't understand how messages on the Internet work, apparently.

But also: what a dumb deflection. Who cares if it's an original or not. The only questions are is this actually a communication that Trump intended for the Prime Minister of Norway and, if so, just how crazy is it?

[Riva]

Article above says "letter." And, just to let you know shithead, whether electronically or otherwise, it starts with an original message. And the above sure as fuck isn't an original or a copy of an original of anything, although it represents itself as just that. That's what's fucking dishonest.

And a deflection? Demanding an original from the "journalists" who brought us the Russian collusion fraud confuses you? Strangely enough I also look askance at stories sourced by anonymous sources allegedly with knowledge. Media hacks and democrats, but I repeat myself, are not really all that honest most of the time. Actually, all of the time.

[Ridgeway]

How do you propose to get the "original" of a text message? A screenshot from the Norwegian PM's phone?

[Riva]

Yeah, that's one way. And again, this article begins by misrepresenting what is, at best, a representation of the original message as a verbatim quote of the original message. I think maybe some of you shitheads may understand this but you lack the fucking integrity to acknowledge it.

[David Nieporent]

Rivabot: I don't know what the message said.
Also Rivabot: But I know this isn't a verbatim quote.

[Riva]

That's the standard crazy Dave? Well, we don't really know if it's a quote or not but what the fuck, it could be? Are you really this phenomenally fucking stupid or do believe this is good journalism? Let's even pretend you're a lawyer, is this how you would approach evidence? Actually I think maybe you do understand the problem here, but you're either a worthless fucking hack lacking any real integrity or a rent-a-troll paid to be a gaslighting asshole. I suspect the latter.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

Is it your contention that what has been reported as Trump's message is not an accurate portrayal of Trump's message to Norway's Prime Minister? If so, you also have a beef with the Prime Minister of Norway who has said, "I can confirm that this is a text message that I received yesterday afternoon from President Trump."

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/whats-new/statement-from-the-prime-minister/id3146486/

Or, are you just whining because someone characterized a text message as a letter?

[SRG2]

Riva is doing everything it can to deflect from the reality that Trump sent this bizarre and demented message to the Norwegian PM. It doesn't matter, of course, whether it was sent by email, text, pigeon post, whatever, nor whether it was characterised as a letter.

Possibly Riva simply didn't believe that something so demented could from Trump, so it denied the truth, and now it finds that the message did come from Trump.

[Riva]

Don't know what to say shithead. We don't have confirmation as to the accuracy of any message from the sender, President Trump, we only have reports from the supposed piece of shit who piecemeal leaked a private message out of context.

What would I like? Some fucking acknowledgement that the text above is not literally a fucking quote. It is NOT. At best, even assuming some accuracy, it is only a representation of the message. Reputable journalists make a distinction when reporting actual quotes from a second or third party report of a quote. Are you completely fucking lacking in integrity? Apparently so.

[John 4]

I’m not sure why Rivabot even cares. If it were proved that these were genuine, the program would just change to “he actually meant this” or “it’s just a joke bro!”

[David Nieporent]

Some fucking acknowledgement that the text above is not literally a fucking quote. It is NOT.

[Citation needed.]

[Riva]

How much are you paid to be a gaslighting rent-a-troll asshole, crazy Dave? Just curious. Do they send you a W-2 at the end of the year?

[SRG2]

How much are you paid to be a gaslighting rent-a-troll asshole, crazy Riva? Just curious. Do they send you a W-2 at the end of the year?

Or don't they have to because you get paid by your government at your apartment in Kaliningrad

[ReaderY]

Even Nazi propaganda wasn’t this stupid. Riva’s claim that a text message confirmed by the Norwegian Govermment as genuine shouldn’t be believed because what we see is a “copy” and not the “original” really wins the fucking stupid shitass dipshit moron award.

I’ve totally given up on my earlier efforts to be polite when it comes to shit like this. There comes a point when a propagandist is being so utterly performative, so completely unhinged from the norms of rational argument, that all you can do is cuss.

The sad thing about Riva and people like him is that they are so into owning the libtards that ghey totally lack self-awareness as to how stupid they sound.

Just as the butcher intent on slaughtering the cow doesn’t give a shit how he looks to the cow or what the cow thinks of him, so Riva doesn’t give a shit how he looks to us or whether he looks stupid or not. Riva simply isn’t attempting to engage in an act of dialogue at all. He is attempting to engage in an act of verbal slaughter. How he comes across simply doesn’t matter to him. His social standings come from the combat notches he can show to the folks on his side. We are not social beings to him at all. Social states like embarssment simply have no application to us. We are no more part of his social world then the cow is to the butcher’s.

[David Nieporent]

Riva doesn't understand how messages on the Internet work, apparently.

Yes. What is "the original" of an electronic message?

[Riva]

Electronically stored information like texts can and are produced everyday in legal discovery. And text images are released all the time in the course of government disclosures. You really are a fucking stupid rent-a-troll. You should be ashamed of taking money for this bullshit, if you had any shame.

[jb]

Riva doubles down on deflection and does not attempt to addresses either of the questions.

Since obviously it is a message intended from Trump to the PM, and the crazy level is "batshit".

[Reallynotbob]

Is this some weird signifier and signified postmodern literary critique thing?

[Stella Link's Ghost]

" postmodern literary critique thing"

More likely poor translation from whatever is the poster's native language.

[Riva]

Oh and the post above says "letter" but whatever.

[Glaucomatose]

“Nuh uh!”

The last, truest argument of Trump supporters.

[Riva]

Well said, now post a link to the original message. For people from Rio Linda, that would not be links to more things claiming to be correct representations of the original communication.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

WTF are you asking for? If Trump sent a text message to Norway's Prime Minister, in what universe is there link to the original message? If you make a telephone call to your paymaster in Moscow, is there a link to the original message? Does the original message exist? Where is it and who has access to it?

You're weird.

[Riva]

President Trump has confirmed nothing and we only have the word of the POS leaker as to the contents of the message. You're an idiot.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"we only have the word of the POS leaker"

And the Prime Minister. And the word of the PBS reporter who received the information from multiple leakers.

[Riva]

What don't have are the original text messages in any form, if that's what they are. Again, why is it so hard to acknowledge this. It's a new year, try to show some integrity. It won't hurt.

[Jon S]

"There are no written documents" except for, you know, those treaties entered into by the United States and ratified by the Senate recognizing Denmark's sovereignty over Greenland.

[Riva]

If that is true then is it not fucking misleading to report something as definitively President Trump's message when it is, at best, a mere representation (by a "journalist" or who knows?) of the original message?

As to the scope and applicability of any treaty, I wouldn't defer to you on that any more than I would the content of a communication reported second or third hand.

[Riva]

And, when you get a chance, explain what "letter" means in the post above.

[Randal]

So... you thought "letter" meant that Trump had gotten out his quill pen and parchment to scrawl out a note to Norway's PM and then had a pigeon fly it from the White House to Oslo?

Huh. I guess, as a bot, you have no actual idea how the real, physical world works. Makes sense.

[Riva]

No, actually quill and parchment never came to mind. But representing the above as an original "letter" conveys to the reader that it is quoting the original text of the message sent. What do you think "letter" means here shithead number whatever (I've lost count here today)? Does it mean "we just pieced this shit together and take our word for it that it accurately represents the original message?"

[Reallynotbob]

Until Riva can put his fingers where the nails were and his hand into his side, he will not believe. Alas.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

The Prime Minister of Norway has written that what is being reported is accurate. Of course, I can't link to the original, only to what the Norwegian government has officially reported. And, indeed, not even that, but only to a website which purports to be the official Norwegian website which may be a fake perpetuiated by the evil geniuses at the New York Times.

[Frank Drackman]

Pete Booty-Judge wrote me a letter inviting me to a 4 way Gay Sex Orgy with him, Chaz, and Don Lemon. Of course, I can't link to the original, only to what the Norwegian government has officially reported. And, indeed, not even that, but only to a website which purports to be the official Norwegian website which may be a fake perpetuated by the evil geniuses at the New York Times.

"Perpetuiated"???? Talk about Senility.

Frank

[Riva]

So, we have only reports that it is accurate, allegedly from the pieces of shit that would piecemeal leak private text messages out of context behind the back of the sender. No confirmation from the sender. Don't know if it is fake but I'm not taking the words of the POS leaker or The NY Times on anything.

[David Nieporent]

MAGA has this weird tic where they claim that something is both leaked and false. We've routinely heard that dodge about purportedly classified information. But those, of course, are contradictory; if the source (or journalist himself) made it up, then it wasn't a leak and wasn't classified.

I have no idea why the bot is programmed to keep spitting out bizarre terms like "piecemeal." I mean, I understand that there's no actual defense of Trump here. But this is just sad.

[Riva]

We have a weird tic for expecting honest reporting. This is not that thing at any level. Now, a piece of shit rent-a-troll may understand this but will just continue to bullshit anyway. It's what they do.

[Randal]

It is quoting the original text of the message sent.

Now what, Riva? Can bots get cognitive dissonance?

[Riva]

Says who? The POS leaker piecemeal messages behind the back of the sender. Fuck him. Sorry but not taking the word of The NY Times or that POS PM. Oh and fuck you too by the way.

[Randal]

Don't you think if it were inaccurate that Trump would've disavowed it? I bet you before the day is done that he calls it "perfect." Will you believe Trump?

[Botaglove]

I don't think this letter will do much to shake his support in Republican Congress. They've gone too far into the mud to back out now. They just hope He'll die or get distracted by something else.

We now know exactly what it's like to live in a monarchy, under an aging monarch.

[Longtobefree]

"We now know exactly what it's like to live in a monarchy, under an aging monarch."

That's true, but Biden and whoever was putting stuff under the autopen are gone now.

[Sarcastr0]

'But Biden' sure makes you look brainless and pathetic these days!

[Botaglove]

MAGA will never forget the unendurable tyranny of living under Biden and that memory will sustain them through the coming years of international and domestic conflict to cling to their God/Emperor.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

No, his autopen and handlers did that. Anyone who thinks Biden was in control for four years is delusional.

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, Trump did bring that back up again, didn't he?

Good dog.

[Randal]

I guarantee you that Trump uses an autopen. Of course, you won't actually care once that fact is revealed, so why are you pretending to care about Biden?

We all know the answer, of course, but it must feel weird to have your worldview tied to that of a senile old man. Do you feel dumber every day?

[Drewski]

Trump has already been caught using Autopen to sign pardons. I assume you'll turn on him now, since it's such a strong issue for you.

[Brett Bellmore]

Fact Check: Did Donald Trump Use an Autopen For Jan 6 Pardons?

[M L]

Why won't it shake his support from Republicans in Congress? Because Trump has strong support from their constituents, that's the only reason. What you are learning is not what it's like to live in a monarchy, but what it's like to live in a republic/democracy where the original structure of decentralized federalism and enumerated powers has been long discarded.

[windycityattorney]

That's a lot of words to say we live in Idiocracy. Trump's intellectual deficits were on full display for years. Just listen to any of his hundreds of rally speeches for 5minutes. Or any of his verbal diarrhea press conferences.

What is amazing is that despite all that; his cabinet and other high ranking govt officials don't step in - but then again, they were picked for their loyalty to him vs competence. This is the predictable result.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

We had a sycophancy, then a senilocity, and now a vanity. What you partisans pretend to not notice is the common denominator -- government powerful enough to do what its politicians and bureaucrats want. Welcome to reality.

[Sarcastr0]

Hard to do small government stuff when it comes to foreign policy. You're barking up the wrong tree with you tired narrative.

Amazing how being above it all doesn't make you less of a fool for ideology.

[Martinned]

In today's political climate, very publicly changing your mind is costly, particularly for politicians who have frequently accused other politicians of hypocrisy (or something similar) when they changed their minds.

[ReaderY]

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

—Benjamin Franklin

“Democracy does not gives the people the best form of government. It merely gives them the government they deserve”

—Alexis de Toqueville, Winston Churchill

Truth of the matter is, if the people want a tyrant and a war-mongering bully, no constitutional structure, no set of checks and balances, can prevent them from getting one.

[David Nieporent]

Pretty sure you want H.L. Mencken: Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

[Randal]

There's a great three-part analysis of One Battle After Another on YouTube that makes a mostly-convincing case for the movie being a retelling of the country's (the left's and the mainstream's) disillusionment with Obama, especially after Occupy Wall Street, and how that facilitated Trump's rise.

Notice, for instance, how of the two getaway cars, the Chevy gets "bailed out" and the Ford does not.

[Judge Magney]

Trump does not have strong support from "their constituents." Trump has strong support from around half of their party base, which will turn on them in an instant; they are more afraid of this minority than they are of their more rational constituents who have not been quite ready, yet, to admit how dangerous Trump is.

[Riva]

Don't say "letter." Apparently it's something else. Not sure what but the various shitheads here don't want to think about it too deeply.

[Joe_dallas]

Trump says a lot of stupid things, though fortunately he doesnt follow through and actually do very many stupid things. This one is doing a stupid thing.

[John 4]

Shameful, embarrassing, and morbidly hilarious.

[John 4]

“Trump says a lot of stupid things, though fortunately he doesnt follow through and actually do very many stupid things.”

Haha!

[Longtobefree]

As a team leader, I had to point out to many newbies that "if it 's stupid, but it works, it ain't stupid".

[John 4]

Oh is it working?

[Longtobefree]

According to my bank balance, yes.
According to my personal freedom meter, yes.
According to my life under Trump vs. the Biden administration, yes.

[Sarcastr0]

my personal freedom meter

Ever thought of looking at other people than yourself?

Amazing how out and proud ideologues can be that they're arguing for universal politics based around whether they personally benefit.

This isn't a market; you're doing it wrong.

[ducksalad]

Gonna hazard a guess here, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Prior to January 2025 you had a healthy bank balance. It was due to your own hard work and careful stewardship, despite the DC establishment ruining the economy.
After January 2025 you have a healthy bank balance. It is due to brilliant economic leadership from the White House.

Prior to January 2025 you mostly said what you wanted and were not hassled by the police. It was due to your defiance in the face of threats and your zealous defense of your liberties.
After January 2025 you mostly say what you want and are not hassled by the police. It is due to being emancipated from oppression by Donald Trump and his team.

Did I guess correctly?

[Longtobefree]

Nope

[John 4]

Damn, that ICE bonus was a nice windfall, huh?

[Nelson]

The stock market was better - MUCH better - under Biden. So unless you got a raise, your bank balance isn’t better.

The S&P 500 Price index returned 23.95% in 2024, 15.96% in 2025. I know my portfolio grew significantly during both Trump I and Biden (especially from 2022-2024, which was amazing), but this year was pretty meh. The projection for next year looks bad.

Wage growth in 2024 was better than in 2025 (it has been dropping steadily since Trump took office last year), so if you did get a raise you are better off than most.

Job growth in 2025 was awful, ending the year with an abysmal 50k in December.

My guess is you want to pretend the economy is better because your preferred party is driving the bus, but it is weak and isn’t looking promising for the near future.

And considering how badly Biden screwed things up with inflation, having Trump determined to make companies choose between charging more to balance higher costs or just accepting that they will be earning less for the next 3 years is going to put even more stress on the economy.

[Longtobefree]

NATO was created to defend European nations from The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics.
Neither exists now.
Time to save a few bucks.

[SRG2]

That doesn't justify the US seizing Greenland, of course.

[Sarcastr0]

It also ignores international politics since the mid-90s, so not sure this guy is spitting facts to begin with.

[Frank Drackman]

What "seizing"?? We're the only ones defending Greenland now, they get to trade being subjects of an inbred Danish King to citizens of the greatest Nation in the History of Earth.
And if we give every Greenlander $1,000,000 what does that come to? 50 Billion? 60? That's a Medicare Rounding Error, a Squadron of F35's.
Will also be a great Prison to put Tampon-Tim, Mayor Fry-guy, and Don Lemon Head.

Frank

[SRG2]

"We had to seize the country in order to defend it"

[jafnhar]

The cost of defending the US and her interests are much higher without allies than with.

[SRG2]

Yeah, but our allies are foreigners, and some of them don't even speak English as good as what we do, so fuck 'em, etc etc

[Martinned]

Senile

Trump dismissed the idea that Norway has no sway over the Nobel Peace Prize competition and that the decision is entirely up to the committee.

“Norway totally controls it despite what they say,” he told NBC News.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/trump-greenland-use-of-force-nobel-norway-europe-tariffs-ukraine-rcna254786

[John 4]

He’s a fucking child. A poorly behaved brat.

[Frank Drackman]

Says the guy who's reacting like a fucking child and poorly behaved brat.

[MoreCurious]

Says the guy who can't read, can't write, can't spell, can't avoid racist, misogynistic, vulgar, sophomoric, bigoted, and ludicrous comments, and who can't stop himself from fawning all over the most stupid, most evil, most psychotic president ever.

[John 4]

Not even a poorly constructed pun of some sort? You’re losing it, Frankie!!!

[Frank Drackman]

Have some Pearls, Swine.
Satisfied now?

Frank

[ReaderY]

Since Trump regularly implies (and acts as if) he controls everything in the US despite what others say, at least he’s being consistent.

From his point of view, this whole democracy/rights/alliances of friends/rule of law shit needs to be stomped out of people’s heads as soon as possible. People need to be totally disabused of their delusions. The rich and powerful need to put the weaklings, the suckers, and the losers in their place made to understand that if they want to continue to live they will shut up and do what they are told as quickly as can be.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

No, that was Biden who was senile.

[Martinned]

If you asked Biden today whether the Norwegian government secretly controls who gets the peace prize, I'm pretty sure you'd get a more coherent answer than this.

[SRG2]

You realise it's possible for both Biden and Trump to have dementia, right?

[Judge Magney]

I do not believe Biden had dementia. I do believe Biden's physical stamina deteriorated sharply during the second half of his term, and neither he nor his staff were willing to accept his limits. I worked at a law firm once where a very senior partner accepted his limits -- put in no more than "ordinary" working day, avoided contested court proceedings, etc, but was regarded as a very wise advisor/leader and one of the most valuable members of the firm. Biden should have been willing to relax into Reagan's workstyle.

[Roger S]

We do not have any letters that Biden personally wrote.

[Randal]

What are you talking about? Here's just one example:

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/joe-biden-039-s-oval-office-letter-for-donald-trump-quot-as-i-take-leave-quot-7546637

[Roger S]

Do you think Biden really wrote those three sentences?

[Randal]

Yes. I expect it was a handwritten note.

Biden was old and senile, but not confused or demented.

[Brett Bellmore]

Sheesh. I've met people who were confused and demented. They actually didn't seem that bad for short stretches, until you realized that when talking with you they couldn't remember from one minute to the next what they'd already said.

[Frank Drackman]

Non-Demented Peoples don't call young women "Dog Faced Pony Soldiers", like Parkinsonian Joe did early in the 2020 Primary, no matter how much the Marxist Stream Media tried to say he was making a reference to a John Wayne Movie (I'm the Movie-Reference-Fucking-Master, and I didn't know what the fuck he was saying)

Frank

[JoeFromtheBronx]

"What is amazing is that despite all that," people keep on saying they support him. Well, not really. There are reasons, just as there are reasons why self-selected Cabinet members stay loyal.

Trump must be rather unhinged for Adler to deign to comment about it. We will soon be back to regularly scheduled programming.

[Michael Molovinsky]

In my part of Pennkentucky, the coattails were short, the Republicans won by about 1%. The Nobel Prize letter may be the straw that breaks their support for Trump. There's a new one(straw) every week.

[Riva]

It's a back to being a letter now? You clowns need to get your bullshit stories straight.

[Flight-ER-Doc]

President Trump is the President of the United States - not the world.

He is responsible to the United States - not Europe, not NATO, not anywhere else. The defense of Denmark is a rational concern.

[Longtobefree]

But I do wonder how bad it would be if Russia had a warm(er) water port, and took a few more countries in eastern Europe.
Let them deal with the Muslim uprising.

[SRG2]

That still does not justify the seizure of Greenland.

He is responsible to the United States - not Europe, not NATO, not anywhere else

And this isn't accurate. As president, he is bound to carry out the laws of the US. and the NATO treaty is part of US law.

[ReaderY]

And as part of his responsibility to the United States, it is his responsibility to try to avoid getting the United States’ major cities, including his own with himself in it, nuked to smithereens.

He has not exactly been taking his responsibility to ensure the United States’ survival seriously.

[dwb68]

Trump says something stupid; then the rest of the world comes along and overreacts with something stupider that makes them look weak and feckless, or worse, like anarchists.

I don't really understand the opposition to selling Greenland. Europe subsidizes it and (shock) arent developing it because that's how Europe is.

I could think of a lot of things I'd rather the government spend money on, and while I'd like .gov to reduce the deficit to zero or a surplus with spending cuts, I can't see the objection to buying Greenland either. It's strategic. The USA and/or Canada will do a much better job defending it and developing it. It'll be the next Alaska.

[ReaderY]

I agree Europe’s response has been way, way to charitable. I think Europe should make clear not just that Greenland is mot for sale at any orice and anyone who attempts to discuss the matter will be immediately ejected and never be permitted to enter European soil again, but that no leader who initiates an attack on NATO soil will ever be permitted to survive, and none of the leaders of a political party that supports leadership who initiates such an attack will be permitted to live. And if that requires nuclear strikes on the cities they live in, then the cities they live in will be destroyed with nukes.

I agree that this is the only kind of language Mr. Trump can understand, and hence the only way European leaders should speak it they wish to end the matter.

For once we agree on something.

I would have any US ambassador or official who so much as brings the subject up immediately put in shackles and escorted out of the country by armed guards with guns pointed at his head at all times. Or kept in prison and shot the next time Mr. Trump brings the subject up.

[M L]

Right.

I see people saying: the U.S. can already do everything it wants with Greenland. Military bases, energy development, etc. So there isn't even any benefit to U.S. buying Greenland or whatever Trump is talking about, and this is all just lunatic raving by Trump.

Ok. But then, if it doesn't make any difference, why is Denmark and others in Europe so opposed and freaking out about it?

[Botaglove]

Because being part of the U.S. means being subject to U.S. laws, not Danish ones or those passed by the Greenland parliament.

It's the difference between living in a democracy or a colony.

But for many MAGA minds the idea of actually caring about political liberty is beyond them.

[Absaroka]

"But then, if it doesn't make any difference, why is Denmark and others in Europe so opposed and freaking out about it?"

My neighbor is willing to loan me his ladder whenever I want. Why is he freaking out when I put a gun in his face and announce it's my ladder now?

[Josh R]

It doesn't make a difference to United States interests. It does to the people of Greenland.

[bernard11]

Why do they need a reason to refuse?

They don't want to sell. No explanation is needed.

[Roger S]

Is Denmark a monarchy or dictatorship? Yes, governments ought to justify what they do. Denmark has no need for Greenland.

[bernard11]

Justify to who?

Apparently both the Danes and the Greenlanders are highly supportive of the refusal.

[Absaroka]

"It'll be the next Alaska"

FWIW, Fairbanks in central Alaska is practically a tropical paradise relative to central Greenland.

As to the rest, I don't think there is much objection to Greenland becoming Upper Maine ***if Denmark wants to get rid of it and the residents agree***.

There is nothing the matter when you adopt an orphan. That doesn't mean kidnapping is OK. As the saying goes, 'one of these is not like the other'. This is true even if the kidnapping is because you really want a kid, as opposed to ransom.

[Botaglove]

MAGA doesn't think consent is something that matters.

[Brett Bellmore]

Indeed, I don't think we SHOULD purchase Greenland, but if we offered to pay each Greenlander $1M cash on the barrelhead, and they agreed to the deal, it would only be an ordinary foolish purchase, nothing more.

It's the threats I object to.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

You've offered up this stupid idea before. Why should any Greenlander be expected to accept such an offer? Would you be willing to turn yourself into a stateless alien in your own country for a measly $1million? What happens when the people you sold yourself to deny you any rights because you have the wrong "culture" and don't speak the "official" language?

And, what are you going to do with $1 million? Buy an annuity? Check it out. If you're 35 (median Greenlander age) and buy a joint life annuity (spouse also 35) you can expect to get about $55k-$60k per year which doesn't get adjusted for inflation. After 10 years of 4% inflation your buying power is reduced by what, about 50%? Also consider that as a Danish citizen and Greenlander you currently receive all sorts of benefits that you will lose.

Only a sucker would accept such an offer and only a total prick would make it.

[Brett Bellmore]

Nothing says you'd have to quit your day job to get the money.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

It's in the fine print.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"your day job" What about those jobs.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greenland

"The Greenland economy is extremely dependent on exports of fish and on support from the Danish Government, which supplies about half of government revenues.[...] Forty-three percent of Greenlanders work for the government[...]

"In addition to direct employment, the government heavily subsidizes other major employers in other areas of the economy, including Great Greenland Furhouse's seal skin purchases, Pilersuisoq's rural stores, and some of Air Greenland and Royal Arctic's regional routes.

"The second-largest sector by employment is Greenland's fishing industry.[...] The fish processing industry is almost entirely centered on Royal Greenland, the world's largest retailer of cold-water shrimp."

And, what is Royal Greenland? "Royal Greenland A/S is a Greenlandic fishing company. It is fully owned by the Greenlandic self-government and is the country's largest company."

So, what happens to all those Greenlanders' jobs dependent on the Greenland government and subsidies from Denmark when Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Porky Vance get hold of their economy?

[M L]

Isn't Greenland already owned by Denmark? Not independent. What's the difference if they are owned by some other country? Anyway there are lots of people and places that might like to join the U.S. for any number of reasons.

There's no way you would need to pay them 1 million each. Let's suppose the U.S. offered Greelanders the same relationship terms they now have with Denmark, only it would be the U.S. instead. I bet 50k would get the majority agreeing, maybe 100k.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

"Isn't Greenland already owned by Denmark? "

Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark and is, t some extent, autonomous.

"Let's suppose the U.S. offered Greelanders the same relationship terms they now have with Denmark, only it would be the U.S. instead. I bet 50k would get the majority agreeing, maybe 100k."

Only a sucker would accept such an offer and only a total prick would make it.

[Kords]

We're opposed to buying Greenland because Greenland isn't for sale and its people don't want to be a part of the United States. It doesn't matter if the United States could do a better job defending Greenland because Greenland isn't under attack or under threat from anyone except for the United States. And there's no strategic benefit to buying Greenland because the U.S. already has full access to the country and is permitted to maintain military bases there.

Also, it's silly to criticize Europe for "subsidizing" Greenland and then propose that the U.S. could take control and turn it into the "next Alaska" because the rest of the country is currently subsidizing Alaska. It receives $11B more in federal funds than it contributes to the federal government. Federal funds make up about 40% of Alaska's budget.

[dwb68]

Russia or China will not hesitate to invade Greenland if the chance presents itself.

There is ZERO percent chance American troops will fight Chinese or Russian troops directly (just like Ukraine). It doesn't matter about NATO. At the end of the day, NATO is a paper tiger because no one wants to risk a nuclear war. Europe will let Russia and China have Greenland because Europe is weak.

I will change my mind when Europe puts forces in Ukraine directly opposed to Russian troops in Ukraine.

[Ridgeway]

Greenland, via Denmark, is part of NATO. We and the Europeans would absolutely go to war with Russia or China over it. Before Russia invaded Ukraine, there was some question of whether NATO would go to war over an invasion of the newer members (like Estonia and Lithuania), but those doubts were erased in 2022, and were further reinforced by the accession of Sweden and Finland into NATO.

[dwb68]

hahahahaha
No. Wont happen. Like Ukraine, once the Russians/Chinese are in we wont kick them out because of the fear of escalation.

[Glaucomatose]

What won't happen is Russia or China attacking NATO, for as long as it exists in its current form. That has never happened, and it will continue to not happen. All that Trump is doing is making the dissolution of NATO, and a future attack by Russia or China, more likely.

[Absaroka]

I'm curious to hear your view of the practicalities of a Russian or especially Chinese invasion of Greenland. I'm trying to envision the logistics that would make that even remotely feasible.

Particularly China. What route do you expect China to use, for either seaborne or airlifted troops?

[Sarcastr0]

When, exactly did NATO stop deterring China and Russia?

It must have been very recently, otherwise as you say they'd have invaded Greenland already.

[Kords]

Greenland, unlike Ukraine, is part of NATO. In the event that Russia or China invaded Greenland, all NATO members would be legally obligated to defend it, and there is no evidence to suggest that they wouldn't. If China or Russia will invade as soon as the chance presents itself, and NATO isn't an effective deterrent, then please tell me why China or Russia have yet to invade Greenland? Better yet, tell me why neither China nor Russia have *ever* attacked a NATO country?

[Absaroka]

"please tell me why China or Russia have yet to invade Greenland?"

My amateur guess: neither have the military capability to mount an amphibious or airborne operation over the distances involved.

[Glaucomatose]

I bet you can’t understand your neighbor refusing to sell you his wife, either. He’s barely using her.

[Frank Drackman]

How much for the little girl!?!?!?!?!?!?

[bernard11]

But in this instance Denmark doesn't want to sell, and Trump is using threats and coercive tactics to try to force them to do so.

Sure, if Denmark decided,

"Hey, we should really sell Greenland. We're not getting a lot out of it, and could use the money. Maybe the US would be interested."

And then the US offered an acceptable price, along with guarantees for the Greenlanders, it might be fine. But that's not what's happening. He is talking a lot of BS to claim some sort of "right" to Greenland, and making a variety of threats, not only to Denmark, but its neighbors and its (and our) allies. if they won't sell.

Trying to make them an offer they can't refuse - one might almost say.

Look. Let's be blunt here. Dementia or not, Trump is an uncontrolled madman. If the GOP had a millimeter of guts they would invoke the 25th Amendment today.

[Nelson]

“ while I'd like .gov to reduce the deficit to zero or a surplus with spending cuts”

Apparently you don’t follow the deficit very well. It is impossible to reduce the deficit to zero with spending cuts. It will require reform of Social Security, at the very least, and probably Medicare and Medicaid as well. Three quarters (possibly more after the OBBB) of the budget is non-discretionary spending (including interest on the debt) plus defense. You literally can’t get there from here with only sending cuts.

“ I can't see the objection to buying Greenland either”

The people who live there don’t want to be part of America and Denmark doesn’t want to sell it. So your sentence has to start with: Except for the rejection of American control by the citizens of Greenland …

We don’t need Greenland. Trump has some twisted imperialist vision of America that assumes that forcing people who don’t want to be Americans to become Americans is a legacy-building move and makes him seem like a good President. Instead it shows that he and Putin are two peas in a pod.

“ The USA and/or Canada will do a much better job defending it and developing it.”

We already have a base there and, before Trump started leaning on them like some tin-pot Mafia don, they would have been perfectly happy to let us have more if we asked. Literally that has never been a problem.

It is now because Trump can’t help being a bully and can’t understand that reaching our goals through cooperation with allies is a good thing and strengthens us as a nation.

Trump is the hammer that only sees nails. He doesn’t think achieving goals is worthwhile unless America has absolute control. It’s why he hates trade and is incapable of understanding that trade deficits aren’t bad.

His ignorance was bad enough the first term. Now the gloves are off and what was disturbing then is dangerous to the country now. We’d better hope that our allies accept that MAGA is a death cult and once we purge them from our system we will be trustworthy allies again.

[Brett Bellmore]

Until recently, it was possible to achieve a balanced budget by simply ceasing to INCREASE spending for a few years, and wait for revenue to catch up.

Admittedly, at this point the debt, and thus interest on it, has gotten so high as to be self-sustaining, and that would no longer work. You'd need to make some cuts, first, before freezing spending.

But, realistically, if the political will existed to do that, we wouldn't have ended up with this large of a debt to begin with. It will just keep growing until there's a crash, and Constitution be damned, it gets repudiated.

[Sisu]

While if we lived in a civil world, the letter would be inappropriate as a form of communication from the President of one sovereign nation to the impotent representative of the King of another nation, ...

Given the realities of today, including that almost all EU leadership and that of nearly all its once sovereign nation states want WWIII, ...

the "letter" does cogently capture (in the tradition of Gen. Anthony Clement "Nuts" McAuliffe, and the "emporer's new clothes" sense) the total lack of credibility the political leadership in Norway and Denmark do and can project.

Same for nearly every other political leader in Europe and by extension the EU and WEF: flatulent, arses lacking any courage or the resources to accomplish the first promise of any monarchy or other form of government, including tyrannies and theocracies, and alliances.

"Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China, and why do they have a 'right of ownership' anyway?"

If a country cannot protect its territory and subjects from invaders, the country does not exist and its leadership needs to be deposed.

WEF, EU, UK/Commonwealth all want a "new world order".

"[N]ature abhors a vacuum". ... And, that is what the "flatulent arses" have created in the WEF, EU, UK/Commonwealth "communities of group think"; and Greenland always has been.

And, no amount of "pissing into the wind" herein by so-called libertarians, social-demonrats, AWFUL & male karens, ... will fill those ever increasingly undeniable leadership and power vacuums.

[Sarcastr0]

Trump's terrible letter is the fault of Norway?

[ReaderY]

The bullshit is getting thicker!

Do you mean Mr. Trump is just a jolly, peace-loving guy who wants to do the Europeans this great favor by taking Greenland out of their hands, and these Europeans all out of the blue just want to attack the United States and start World War III?

Or do you mean that if the Europeans don’t immediately surrender to Mr. Trump’s World-War-III-starting threats and instead defend themselves, as they not only have every right to but should, then you are prepared to shit out of your ass that THEY are somehow responsible for World War III when Mr. Trump attacks them?

Same shit as the Ukrainians are responsible tor the Russian-Ukrainian war, the Poles were responsible for starting war in Europe in World War II, and we in the United States are responsible for starting the war with Japan in the Pacific?

Probably the same ass too.

[Kords]

You say "cogently," but I don't think that word means what you think it means.

What evidence is there that Denmark can't defend Greenland? The ability to defend Greenland is relative depending on who is attacking. Most countries couldn't withstand a full-scale hostile takeover from the United States, but does that mean that all those countries are illegitimate? The inevitable conclusion of your logic is the creation of one giant world government because any countries that can't successfully defend themselves against another country should cease to exist.

You seem to believe that the legitimacy of a government depends on whether another government can impose its will on the first. But the legitimacy of a government lies with the consent of the governed. Nothing else.

Regardless, one way that smaller countries can defend themselves is through alliances. You may have heard of NATO? That's why Germany, England, and France have all dispatched troops to Greenland in response to Trump's threats.

[Bob from Ohio]

UK dispatched one single trooper.

[Roger S]

National boundaries are indeed based on the ability of a country to defend itself.

[Glaucomatose]

“The galactic stupidity of Trump’s letter to Norway just shows that Norway is stupid,” is a thing said by very smart people.

[Randal]

I mean yes, but, this kind of thing does make Norway et al seem astoundingly feckless... trying to appease and kowtow to an obviously mad king. It's time to call a demented vainglorious fool a demented vainglorious fool.

[Michael Molovinsky]

I think the question is becoming what kind of psychiatric department does Walter Reed have? No elected Republican representative of mine can remain silent and still get my vote come November. Every election I'm leaving more and more lines blank on my ballot.

[Frank Drackman]

Walter Reed's really a Potemkin Hospital, Big Tall Tower that's mostly (Empty) Offices, only has 150 Beds, which is less than even most small Community Hospitals, they used to claim some ridiculous 2,400 Bed capacity which was if you just used every available square foot for Stretchers, like that scene from "Gone with the Wind"
So they've got a small Psych Department, you can tell, they're the Funny Looking Doctors, more than most people even.

Frank

[Bob from Ohio]

This blog is just lib rage therapy today.

[Sarcastr0]

You get off on this America is all that matters jingoism to a performative extent, even when others say it's cringe.
You've invoked that quote ""The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" just to flex how edgy and imperialist you are.

Until it gets too silly for you, then it's ridiculous anyone cares.

[Roger S]

That letter is hilarious. You guys take Trump way too seriously.

[John 4]

Not everyone is a juvenile nihilist, little Roger.

[Darwinnie]

If you don’t think Trump is serious, then you’re not paying attention.

[Randal]

I agree the letter is hilarious. But I'm pretty sure that he meant it seriously. It's not April Fools, or some kind of joke birthday note.

[Nelson]

Please tell me that this is a joke. Or an Onion article taken seriously. Please?

[Number 2]

I literally was just about to say the same thing.

[Moderation4ever]

I think we have turned to the end game for President Trump. That doesn't mean that he cannot continue for a while longer but someone will have to step up at some point. Most likely it will be JD Vance. When President Biden finally decided it was time to step back those around him were questioned relentlessly as to why did you not tell him sooner. It will be the same way with President Trump. Those who let him send a letter like this will be questioned as to why they did not stop him then.

[Frank Drackman]

1: I'd bet my Left Nut that "Letter" is Bullshit, that's something our previous POTUS would have done, in addition to shitting himself in public.
2: Biden was obviously Senile in the 1980's, thank Barry Hussein for choosing him as his, I mean "His" Assassination Insurance Policy.

Frank

[John 4]

MAGA is in such denial mode, they are doubting the veracity of the messages themselves. Tough times for them.

Don’t worry, ladies. Fox will have your talking points soon enough!

[ducksalad]

Seems like the talking points are less consistent and more delayed than they used to be. Even cabinet officials seem like they're not sure what the message is supposed to be; they're guessing.

On Greenland, we're now seeing four factions among Trump supporters:

1. This has gone on long enough, stop it.

2. He's bluffing and trolling as a strategy.

3. He didn't say it, the MSM is making stuff up.

4. We need Greenland by whatever means necessary.

[Harry S]

One should care more about one’s own genitalia. It’s bee on the national news for hours without any denial from the Administration. It’s real and sadly no crazier than so much of what the President utters.

[OpinionsVary]

Think with a few thousand instances of chatGTP and Truth Social set secretly to private, Trump could go the António Salazar route?

[OpinionsVary]

For those who might not get obscure European dictator references

>Fake news: How Portugal ‘fooled’ ex-dictator to believe he still led from his sickbed. António de Oliveira Salazar thought he was in power for two years after being replaced, new book claims

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-former-dictator-salazar-book-b2007149.html

[ducksalad]

In the absence of a sickbed, we could tell DJT the Chinese have started WWIII and hustle him off to a command bunker under a mountain. Keyboard with a big red "Smite" key controlling the interactive video game. Big analog meter on the wall labeled "Outdoor Radiation Level" that wobbles around but is always in the red zone.

[MaddogEngineer]

He's trying to do 19th century diplomacy in the 21st century. Bold move, not sure it's going to work out like he wants it to.

What I remain bemused about is the contortions of the America Firsters who are supposedly against endless foreign wars and the corrupt military industrial complex, yet celebrate a guy rattling the sabre built by those (evil) defense contractors to get his way. Like I said, bold move. I guess it's okay as long as you don't do nation building with a hostile local population. Maybe the Firsters think the Greenlanders et al are easily subdued.

[Randal]

19th-century diplomacy in service of a 20th-century world order: "spheres of influence." It didn't work out too well last time, Dr. Strangetrump!

Wasn't it nice when presidents were expected to know at least the 3rd-grade version of modern history so they might avoid repeating it?

[Frank Drackman]

I get the feeling this is a negotiating tactic, We won't try to make Greenland a State, maybe the DemoKKKrats will give up on District of Colored People and Puerto Spick-O Statehood.
Frank

[MollyGodiva]

Threatening war is a shitty negotiation tactic.

[ducksalad]

Anybody remember way back in 2015? Obama was negotiating with Iran and many Republicans didn't like it.

A group of 46 senators led by Tom Cotton wrote directly to Iran to tell them that no deal negotiated by Obama would be binding on the US, and the deal would not be honored after he left office. There was criticism and some people even tried to claim that what Cotton did was illegal.

However, Tom Cotton suffered nothing more than criticism, and was not even formally investigated. And I would wager that if we went back we'd find that some of our esteemed colleagues here, argued that (a) what he did was right, (b) what he did was perfectly legal, and (c) that taking any action beyond criticizing him would itself be illegal.

So, if senators are sincere in being opposed to this Greenland thing, what is stopping them from sending an Open Letter to the governments of Denmark and Greenland, reminding them that:

1. Without 2/3 approval by the US senate, no agreement is binding.
2. They should expect any agreement to be instantly repudiated as soon as Trump is out of office.*
3. Any promises of payment to Greenlanders or to Denmark would not be honored, and the usual peacetime tools of sanctions would be used to try and claw back anything already paid.
4. Greenland will never be part of the US even if Greenlanders want it desperately.

Optional Item 5 - it has been argued that it is treason to tell our soldiers they should disobey illegal orders. Surely it's not treason to tell it to foreigners, we did so very loudly in 1946. So:

5. Starting an unauthorized war of aggression against a democracy is an illegal order that soldiers in general should disobey.

-----
*Note the words. "is out of office", not "has finished his term".

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Trump and Biden have very similar foreign policy agendas…I could see Newsome keeping Greenland but bending over backwards for Denmark in every other way. I’m not sure why Denmark wants the responsibilities that come with owning Greenland which is why it should have been easy for Trump to acquire it legally and without pissing anyone off. Had Obama or Biden attempted to acquire it Republicans would have freaked out and so it wouldn’t be worth the political headache for a Democrat to do the smart thing and acquire it.

[Harry S]

Going to war with the rest of your alliance isn’t a smart move, no matter which President does it. Alienating all of your allies and engaging in a trade war with them isn’t either. Neither is driving your research scientists to foreign shores. So much damage over so little time.

[Glaucomatose]

"Trump and Biden have very similar foreign policy agendas."

Sure. Other than the fact that Biden's foreign policy agenda was built on forging stronger relationships with our allies while Trump's agenda is alienating them, and that Biden worked for years to bring NATO together while Trump wants to blow it apart, and that Biden devoted most of his presidency to supporting Ukraine against Russia while Trump has been selling it out, and that Biden believed extensively in American soft power through diplomacy and foreign aid while Trump openly despises those things, they're exactly alike.

[ReaderY]

I am going to talk here about Riva. I think Riva exhibits the most Nazi-like, and to me by far the most frightening, characteristic of Trumpism. Like Hitler, Trump has succeeded in creating a climate in which, at least among his most fervant followers, Trump’s political, cultural, and ethnic enemies and scapegoats have become so completely dehumanized that social-emotional states like embarassment have no meaning. By the time Auschwitz was built, a Nazi would no more feel embarrassment peeing in front of a Jew than in front of a dog. One has to be enough of a human to register as a social being for emotions like embarrassment to arise.

And so Riva. He feels no embarassment at all, no shame, in what he says to us. We have been sufficiently dehumanized that he doesn’t bother to check or filter himself as he would even for a social inferior that has enough of a degree of humanity to register as having social relevance in his world. We just don’t register.

I’ll just say that the same process of dehumanization that leads Riva to do the verbal equivalent of peeing right in front of us without the slightest embarassment, taken further, enabled Hitler’s most fervant followers to lead his political, cultural, and ethnic enemies and scapegoats into gas chambers and turn on the gas without it even occurring to them that doing so would have any more moral implications than slaughtering a cow.

The disappearance of the other from followers’ moral world precedes and leads to enabling atrocities.

We will need to watch this process carefully. We can see it at work, actually in the middle of happening, in Riva. His remarks therefore deserve careful study.