Open Thread

What’s on your mind?

Comments

[bloocow2]

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

[Frank Drackman]

That was yesterday.
Today's "Black Friday" where Blacks all over the country will practice their native custom of engaging in mortal combat over $500 pairs of Sneakers.

Frank

[bloocow2]

Ah, right. I'm like a day behind, so it's still Thanksgiving for me!

[Moderation4ever]

Oh Frank, the fact is that the great traditions of Black Friday ended with on line shopping. Lining up in the cold and dark for door busters ended with Amazon. Another great American tradition wipe out by technology.

[Frank Drackman]

Man, I can smell your Arab-ness through the thousands of miles of Fiber-Optic Cable (or is it through the Ether? I just use Technology, I don't know how it works, I get to see Lana Del Rey's (Redacted) in 4k I don't need to know how the Pixels got discombulated in the Transmogrifier (HT Calvin, Hobbes) or the angle of the dangle when the Hypotenuse approaches Undefined Values.

Frank

[Moderation4ever]

I'm giving thanks for a Packers win over the Lions.

[Malika la Maize]

That NFC North is a bitch.

[Riva]

I'm not sure that a win over the Lions says much these days.

[Commenter_XY]

Is POTUS Trump on solid constitutional ground halting all immigration from Third World countries temporarily, while the murdering Afghan Animal is investigated?

I'd say yes. Why? There is no right of entry to the US.

[Frank Drackman]

Investigated? Needs to be eviscerated.

[hobie]

Nothing gets them Confederate monuments up faster than a little brown-on-white-lady action

[Frank Drackman]

Referring to the murder of the West Virginia Guardsman (was she a "Hayseed"??) by an Afghani Terrorist as "a little brown-on-white-lady action" is Despicable even by your Despicable standards. Won't be surprised when they find a pack of Cub Scouts buried in your basement.

Frank

[hobie]

Just like our Tiny, Microscopic Saint Ashtray Babbitt; another white lady soldier summoned to DC on false pretenses to help the Orange Caligula retain power. But unlike Tiny, Microscopic Saint Ashtray Babbitt, this lady was innocent.

[Frank Drackman]

See, when Louis CK did his "Why don't Jews get Cremated??" or joked about how great Pedophilia must be that Pedophiles risk Death to engage in it (So tell us, Reverend, how great IS it???) bit he was just being funny, but you're about as funny as digging up John Louis, attaching Marionette Strings, and making his Corpse do the "Hambone" dance.

[Malika la Maize]

John Louis? The shelf maker?

Take your meds.

[Brett Bellmore]

As Malika says below.

[DDHarriman]

He's black male adjacent, so of course he lusts violently after White women

[not guilty]

DDHarriman, earlier this week you posited that "There are four distinct species of humans alive today."

Among human primates, homo is the genus; sapiens, the species.

What are the other three species?

[not guilty]

Still waiting, DDHarriman.

[Moderation4ever]

What do you mean by investigation? We have the shooter and from what I am reading he was CIA trained. Will that is investigated? If this shooting had happened overseas the country would be asking why are soldiers were in that country. Should we do the same here and ask what is the purpose of having these soldier on our streets. Will that be investigated?

[Frank Drackman]

Why "ARE" soldiers were in that country??
I'm smelling a Big Fat Ham-Ass Rat.
OK, most of you A-rabs smell bad, it's a metaphor.
Egypt Air has Flights leaving JFK every hour, take one.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

“Why "ARE" soldiers were in that country??”

Still drinking Dos Equis?

[hobie]

Civilians - both foreign and domestic - are our new preferred targets. They're so much easier to kill because they are not typically armed and they totally aren't expecting to be murdered. It's a no-brainer!

[DDHarriman]

Well, of course you're echoing the narrative of the Seditious Six.

That is why they put that video out there. Once Leftwing radicals internalize a false belief that US soldiers and government officials are randomly murdering them, they will do more of what we saw the Democrat CIA do the other day with those guardsmen.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

yawn...zzzz....

[DDHarriman]

Go read their color revolution playbooks. These aren't secret.

They are executing an intentional plan. To think they're not is to concede they are just dumb reactionaries.

[not guilty]

DDHarriman, do you dispute that ordering military forces to kill civilians or noncombatants is an unlawful order?

Would Presidents Harding, Coolidge or Hoover have had the authority to order summary execution of rum runners on the high seas because the Volstead Act during the 1920s prohibited the sale or transport of alcoholic beverages in the U.S.?

In at least one reported instance, Naval forces carried out a second strike against the same boat to kill survivors of the first strike. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/us-military-carried-second-strike-184752165.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&segment_id=DY_VTO_CORE&ncid=crm_19907-1202927-20251128-0--A&bt_ee=2LwxrzEX950ssvGG6aebrFegJq1pL6SB2huUWOSNxeNc54Wb5HXGpLpYnQN8Enfw&bt_ts=1764371668705

Murder on the high seas is a crime potentially punishable by death according to 18 U.S.C. § 1111(b). Similarly, the DoD personnel who undertook (or authorized) the strike might have violated Article 118 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. § 918, which provides that “[a]ny person subject to this chapter who, without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when such person— (1) has a premeditated design to kill; [or] (2) intends to kill … is guilty of murder.” https://www.justsecurity.org/120296/many-ways-caribbean-strike-unlawful/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[Riva]

You're a little confused on your history. "[O]rdering military forces to kill civilians"? That would be Obama and Biden. And, just so you know, narco-terrorists invading our country are not mere "civilians."

[not guilty]

"And, just so you know, narco-terrorists invading our country are not mere 'civilians.'"

Supporting facts, Riva? Do you contend that they are military forces?

And as I asked you yesterday (and you pointedly declined to answer), do you claim that Presidents Harding, Coolidge or Hoover would have been authorized to order the summary execution of rum runners in international waters because the Volstead Act then criminalized the sale or transport of alcoholic beverage within the United States?

[Riva]

It's 2025 not 1920. We don't have an issue with rum runners. We have an issue with armed state sponsored narco-terrorists invading our country.

[not guilty]

"It's 2025 not 1920. We don't have an issue with rum runners. We have an issue with armed state sponsored narco-terrorists invading our country."

Is that to say no, you do not make any such claim, or yes, you do, Riva?

During 1920, liquor was regarded as every bit the scourge that illegal narcotics today are regarded. The prohibition of alcoholic beverage then was even written into the Constitution:

After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Do you or do you not claim that presidential authority during the 1920s would then have authorized a president to order the summary execution of rum runners on the high seas?

[David Nieporent]

do you claim that Presidents Harding, Coolidge or Hoover would have been authorized to order the summary execution of rum runners in international waters because the Volstead Act then criminalized the sale or transport of alcoholic beverage within the United States?

Only if they first ranted and raved via the telegraph about those rum runners being invaders.

[David Nieporent]

1) If the perfunctory attempt at a whatabout refers to drones, Biden essentially ended the drone war.
2) Yes, they are in fact civilians.
3) "Narco terrorists" is a made up phrase for political purposes.
4) Exactly zero of the people murdered were "invading our country."

[TwelveInchPianist]

Ended it by killing a bunch of children?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Will MAGA use this to investigate the CIA?

ABSOLUTELY.....

Think Church Commission Part Deux.

[not guilty]

I wonder. Will the MAGA cult members who castigated President Biden's administration for admitting Rahmanullah Lakanwal as a refugee in 2021 say one word critical of the Trump administration's approval of his application for asylum earlier this year?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-approved-national-guard-shooting-112527951.html

This shooting is tragic, and for either side to use it to make political hay is reprehensible.

[Josh R]

It would seem so under Trump v. Hawaii.

[Commenter_XY]

Let's see what happens.

[thesafesurfer]

Ilya will denounce you as a Fascist in no time. According the Somin, no government on the planet has the right to restrict immigration in any way.

[AmosArch]

There has been a lot of handwringing lately over long dead stars being 'resurrected' through AI and I don't really get it. Frankly it sounds nicer to be remembered even if it is in a ridiculous fashion than to be shuffled away forever. And they're dead. They either don't care or they likely have more important things to attend to.

But missing from the discussion as far as I've seen is any concrete confirmation on what the handwringers actually want. Current law varies widely by state with California setting a term of 70 years post mortem which like copyright already seems ridiculously long.

But people still are unsatisfied and want even more protections. The implication of what they want seems to be once someone dies thats it. Their likeness remains permanently locked up and forbidden to be used forever, or hardly better the estate owns it forever. Which sounds a lot stupider and ripe for problems than the alternative of freeing it into the public domain.

So how long if any should a likeness of a dead person be held from public domain? In my view maybe 15-20 so years would be good compromise and perhaps reduce copyright to go along with this harmonizing everything with patent length. I don't see why an actual usable device deserves less protection that a piece of art or a face after a person is gone on do you..?

[A Japanese Student]

Because term of copyright is set by numerous treaties, reducing it below 50 - or perhaps 70 - will be a headache. Yes, you could try to withdraw from the Berne Convention and WTO - but at what cost? (UCC does exist but even that requires protection for 25 years after death.)

I don't think likeness can be treated like copyrights or other property rights. Maybe this is a case where, instead of a fixed number of years, it should be protected for a generation? Like making the right to likeness inheritable only once.

[Frank Drackman]

Good point, and with AI how will we know it's really Andy Kaufman when he reappears on the 50th anniversary of his "Death"??? Of course with Andy you never really knew it was him anyway, was it Andy? or Tony Clifton?
I'm still holding out for Jim Morrison, 50th was July 2021, but the Lizard King wasn't big on punctuality.
I'm thinking July 4, 2026, at the White House, Amurica's 250th (if we make it) and my 64th (if I make it) if anyone can arrange it it's "45/47/(48?)"

Frank

[David Nieporent]

There has been a lot of handwringing lately over long dead stars being 'resurrected' through AI and I don't really get it. Frankly it sounds nicer to be remembered even if it is in a ridiculous fashion than to be shuffled away forever.

You don't get it? There are two obvious explanations:

1. It's obviously not about being remembered; if the person weren't already remembered nobody would be interested in using the person's likeness in the first place. Moreover, to the extent that it is about remembrance, it's not just that one is remembered, but how one is remembered. For me, for example, I'd be okay w/ my likeness (not that anyone is likely to be using it) being used to promote baseball or cancer research, but would be offended if it were used to promote the scam that is cryptocurrency.

2. If the person were alive, the user would need to compensate the person for the use of his likeness. The heirs want to be able to monetize the likeness after death.

[Mr. Bumble]

What would be the source of the images and voices? Wouldn't they be copyrighted material? Would the copyright holder be free to use them?

[Riva]

You're asking nuanced questions. This asshole doesn't do nuanced. You might as well ask him about separation of powers if the issue were constitutional law. What a joke that would devolve into.

[David Nieporent]

The source could be anything; it might be copyrighted or not — hell, it might be AI generated — and the person using it might own that copyright or not. But ownership of the copyright of a particular fixation of someone's likeness does not necessarily give one the right to use the person's likeness to sell products.

[Riva]

Like I noted, asshole doesn't do nuanced. His last point essentially refers to the right of publicity, a state conferrred right that may be preempted by federal law depending on the claim. As an aside, I'm curious to know his take on legal liability for false accusations of plagiarism.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Imagine Franklin Roosevelt, in period attire, advocating an elimination of SNAP.

Enough said?

[A Japanese Student]

Tokyo High Court splits with... itself (and every other appellate court presented with the issue), and says same-sex marriage is a matter for the legislative, not judicial, branch. Thus, it is constitutional to not recognize same-sex marriage.

Unlike the US, there is a constitutional right to marry in the Japanese constitution. The court, however, found that it does not cover same-sex marriage.

[Frank Drackman]

What about Seldom-Sex Marriage? Is that a thing in Japan?

[bloocow2]

*golf clap*

[DDHarriman]

I know your ex-wife... made aggressive, but sensual, love to her countless times. Your marriage was was more like "Seldom-Sex-With-You Marriage".

[Frank Drackman]

Since Mrs. Drackman and I been married 30+ years (yes, to each other) you're obviously got me confused with some other Frank Drackman, so good on you for making aggressive sensual love. What was his name??

[Dr. Ed 2]

So DC is going to have a capitol murder trial.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this -- and what happens if a DC jury refuses to convict.

[Frank Drackman]

The Moose-lums want "Sharia Law", lets give them some.

[Moderation4ever]

Silly comment. Big difference between throwing a sandwich and shooting someone. Here is a better question, what is the government plea deals to keep the CIA connection quiet?

[David Nieporent]

The word is "capital," and why would it refuse to convict?

[Mr. Bumble]

Could the feds prosecute?

[Dr. Ed 2]

The Feds will prosecute, this was within the District and a Federalized officer.

And Trump won't use this as an excuse to investigate past CIA offenses?!?

But my concern is that a DC Jury refuses to convict the schmuck for shooting the girl in the head -- Bubba ain't gonna like that. Bubba really ain't gonna like that....

Anyone remember what happened when the LA Jury refused to convict the cops for beating Rodney King back in 1992?

[thesafesurfer]

Yes, I do. My wife and I lived at Pico and Robertson.

[David Nieporent]

Could the feds prosecute?

Well, all felonies in Washington DC are prosecuted by the federal government. Now, they're often prosecuted in D.C. Superior Court rather than in the U.S. District Court, but there's obviously a federal hook here, so I expect this will be prosecuted in federal court.

[not guilty]

The District of Columbia Code does not authorize the death penalty. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state/district-of-columbia

If the death penalty is to be sought, that would necessarily have to be pursuant to a federal statute.

[Malika la Maize]

So Trump called Walz “seriously retarded” and made fun of Ilhan Omar’s religious garb on Thanksgiving Day. What a classy, professional President.

[bloocow2]

I mean, he's being doing that for the entirety of his adult life, and in politics for almost a decade now. At this point, I think it's safe to say that nobody (well, at least nobody who has any real power) cares about what a terrible human being he is.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It isn't like the Dems are all blushing virgins....

[Frank Drackman]

Sergeant Pepper-Waltz strikes me more as a prancing Forest Sprite, and I want to know why Mullah Ill-hand Omar's Hijab is ticking.

Frank

[Joe_dallas]

How classy is the Omar's fraudulent marriage to her brother?

How classy are the multiple and massive frauds with her somalian constituents in her district under the watchful eyes of Ellison and Walz?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-feeding-our-future-fraud-scheme

[Malika la Maize]

All whataboutism, all the time. The jd show!

[Joe_dallas]

What an idiot - Trumps condemnation of Omar is directly related to the frauds I mentioned.

Look up the definition of whataboutism

[Malika la Maize]

Trump’s lack of class is not justified by his target’s lack of class. Way to tell us you don’t get what class is without saying it!

And the point about Omar is just goofy, representatives are not crime fighters

[Joe_dallas]

Tell us why saying bad things about the person committing fraud is worse than the actual fraud?

[Malika la Maize]

You’re so dense, I’ll just repeat this, maybe it will sink in this time:

Trump’s lack of class is not justified by his target’s lack of class. Way to tell us you don’t get what class is without saying it!

[Joe_dallas]

Malika la Maize 3 minutes ago
"You’re so dense, I’ll just repeat this, maybe it will sink in this time:"

Yes Malika you are extremely dense.

The fraud is vastly worse than using a few bad words to describe the person involved in the fraud.

[Malika la Maize]

Me: Trump showed a lack class calling Walz retarded and mocking Omar’s religious garb.
jd: But what about Omar and Walz’s lack of class?
Me: Trump’s lack of class isn’t excused or justified by any lack of class of his targets.
jd: But what about his targets lack of class?
Me: uh, to repeat, Trump’s lack of class isn’t excused or justified by any lack of class of his targets.
jd: But what about Omar and Walz’s lack of class!

Yes, he’s that dumb.

[Joe_dallas]

Summarizing Malika

Fraud is okay

Exposing the individuals engaged in fraud and exposing the complacency of those who involved in the fraud and / or aware of the fraud, and those charged with overseeing the programs is bad.

Apparently fraud committed by democrats is good according to malika, the lesser.

[David Nieporent]

Tell us why saying bad things about the person committing fraud is worse than the actual fraud?

Tell us that you don't understand that lying is wrong without saying that you don't understand that lying is wrong.

[Michael P]

How ironic.

[David Nieporent]

How classy is the Omar's fraudulent marriage to her brother?

How classy are you for lying about this? The thing about it is that it's such a stupid, racist lie. There's no evidence of any sort for it, and also there's no reason on earth why she'd have done that; it's not like she's from West Virginia.

How classy are the multiple and massive frauds with her somalian constituents in her district under the watchful eyes of Ellison and Walz?

Yes, she is responsible for what other Somalian people do, just like you are responsible for Hitler's actions. Because skin color determines collective guilt.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The attack on Representative Ilhan Omar is an oldie and a baddie.

A NYT fact check back in 2019 covered it. It notes that it goes back as far as 2016, supposedly a matter of immigration fraud.

https://archive.ph/riLgF

[People repeatedly say "paywall," but articles can regularly be obtained via archive content and so forth. Many libraries also provide free newspaper databases, including for NYT articles.]

Powerline Blog, not too surprisingly, is mixed into the whole thing.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Powerline Blog, not too surprisingly, is mixed into the whole thing."
Of course, a blog started by three respected lawyers and a law professor are to be completely discounted.
I'd trust this before anything written by the hacks at the NYT.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/david-steinberg-tying-up-loose-threads-in-the-curious-case.php
Lots of receipts.

[David Nieporent]

The attack on Representative Ilhan Omar is an oldie and a baddie.

A NYT fact check back in 2019 covered it. It notes that it goes back as far as 2016, supposedly a matter of immigration fraud.

The "evidence" that the guy's her brother is based on alleged social media posts that supposedly formerly existed but were deleted, that involve people using terms like "sister" colloquially. If, e.g., someone doesn't know women who describe close female friends as "sisters," it's probably someone who doesn't actually ever speak to women.

But the evidence that it was for immigration fraud is not only non-existent, but utterly nonsensical. For one thing, her brother would've been a citizen just like she was, so he would've had no need to do this. Secondly and more importantly, there wasn't any immigration fraud; the putative husband/brother never immigrated to the U.S. at all! It's far-fetched enough to claim that someone would illegally marry a sibling to gain citizenship; it's insane to think that someone would do that and then not even try to gain citizenship!

[Nelson]

“ How classy is the Omar's fraudulent marriage to her brother?”

If it weren’t for a complete lack if evidence for your claim, that might be a valid point.

“ How classy are the multiple and massive frauds with her somalian constituents in her district”

Weird, I missed the part where politicians were liable for the crimes of their constituents.

It’s almost like you have a particular, extreme, and uninformed worldview that you apply to every other part of your life whether it’s relevant or not.

You’re as classy as a solid-gold toilet, Joe. And as dense.

[Mr. Bumble]

"If it weren’t for a complete lack if evidence for your claim, that might be a valid point."
There is NO lack of evidence, just willful blindness on your part.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/david-steinberg-tying-up-loose-threads-in-the-curious-case.php

Of course you won't bother with this.

[thesafesurfer]

The Democrats say both are very classy.

[jimc5499]

He can make a case for Walz,

[Malika la Maize]

The goods he was accused of stealing cost about 70 cents. Proving his innocence cost more than $9,000.

It began one early morning in January 2024 when a security guard took two popular South Korean snacks from a company’s office fridge. One, a Choco Pie, cost about 30 cents, and the other, a mini custard cake, cost about 40 cents. Later that month, the company accused him of theft, leading to his prosecution.

The case set off national outrage. The company, a logistics subcontractor of Hyundai, claimed the security guard was barred from helping himself to the fridge’s contents because he was its subcontractor, not a staff member. He insisted he was innocent, saying that people at the office had invited him to take the snacks.

Nearly two years later, an appellate judge declared the man innocent on Thursday, according to the district court of Jeonju, the city in the country’s south where the case was tried.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/28/world/asia/choco-pie-custard-theft-court.html

[hobie]

Malika, as the betters of this blog, it is incumbent on us to post the free versions of the NYTimes articles for the low-achievement rubes here.

[Malika la Maize]

There’s really nothing else much to that story than the excerpt (except a claim the guy may have been targeted for trying to start a union).

[Frank Drackman]

"Bettors"??
In Poker that's what they call a "Tell"
You ain't "Hobie-Stank" you're the Mother-Effing-Very-(Wrong)-Reverend-Kirkland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wondered what happened to him, you're like Bin-Laden, hiding right in our midst.
Oh hey, when you hear the Helicopters?? it's not 9-11.

Frank

[TwelveInchPianist]

Lol you didn't know?

[Frank Drackman]

I hate Work-Refrigerator Food/Beverage Stealers, during Anesthesia Residency one of the upper year Residents was stealing my Gatorade, it was a big joke, everyday I'd bring in 2 bottles of Gatorade, when I came out for my morning break (you got a 15 minute morning break, 30 minutes for lunch and 15 minutes in the afternoon, all strictly timed) one of the bottles would be gone.
Well one morning I brought in my 2 bottles of Gatorade, only they weren't Gatorade (they HAD been Gatorade a few hours before) My bottles magically quit vanishing.

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

Green urine?!?

[Frank Drackman]

The original Gatorade is Yellow. Very Yellow, in fact the flavor originally was called Piss Yellow (HT B. Falfa) but it didn't go over well with focus groups so it was changed to "Lemon Lime"

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

Dr. Ed preferred Moxie which claimed to be, according to its inventor;
"Moxie, he claimed, was especially effective against "paralysis, softening of the brain, nervousness, and insomnia".[2]"

Based on Ed's comments this seems to be false.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Dr. Ed prefers DIET Moxie, which Market Basket no longer carries... 🙁

[David Nieporent]

"A judge found him guilty in April and fined him about $34: basically the lowest fine that a court can impose in a criminal case but nearly 50 times the value of what he had eaten."

[TwelveInchPianist]

"...nearly 50 times the value of what he had eaten."

It wouldn't be much of a deterrent if the penalty were close to the value of the ill-gotten gains.

That said, it sounds like this was a misunderstanding, and a poor use of discretion.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The fact that it only cost him $9000 to fight this tells me it wasn't in the US.

[Malika la Maize]

RIP to US Army Spc. Sarah Beckstrom. According to CNN: “Hoping others could spend Thanksgiving home, Beckstrom had volunteered to work in DC over the holiday.” Class act.

[Frank Drackman]

Let me know when he looks at his watch like Sleepy Joe did. (Or calls Laken Riley "Lincoln Riley")
Seriously, remember the State of the Onion where Sleepy Joe said exactly these words.
"Lincoln Riley. An innocent young woman who was killed by an illegal. That's right. But how many of thousands of people have been killed by legals?"
and this was at the height of the DemoKKKrat Primary that nobody except RFK Jr had the Co-hones to run against that drooling (sign of Parkinson's Disease) old Fuck.
Anyway, it's Black Friday, don't you have a Mall to loot?

Frank

"

[Malika la Maize]

WTF are you talking about? And I mean that more than usual. My comment was wishing Beckstrom peace and noting how classy she was. Do you have dementia? Talk about every accusation is a confession!

[Frank Drackman]

My Bad, thought you were busting Trumps balls, there's so much Hubris (am I using that correctly?) in these Threads that an actual serious comment like you made is like a Change Up, that I swung 60 feet too early at.
There, now we can be (no Homo) friends again.

Frank

[Bwaaah]

Yeah. Frank probably lost the thread when he saw your name.

He even scolded Hobie above for trashing the same issue.

In his defense, it was you. And unlike Hobie, he didn't trash the tragedy, just the eulogizer. But he missed the greater opportunity to pass on this one.

I think Frank Drackman is imperfect.

[Malika la Maize]

You shouldn’t talk about a fellow performer like that.

[Nelson]

“ I think Frank Drackman is imperfect.”

This is the runaway new leader in the “Understatement of the Year” contest.

[Bwaaah]

And there he is, with a moment of redemption. (I posted before I saw it.)

There was something oddly sweet in you having "meant that more than usual," as if to suggest that even in Frank Drackman is a person who isn't as bad as Frank Drackman. I think that's right.

Happy Day-after-Thanksgiving, Malika.

[Malika la Maize]

Crazy people are sometimes more incoherent at certain times. You know, like how you pretend to be something you’re not more at certain times.

[Bwaaah]

I appreciate your circumspection.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It most likely was so that others could spend the holiday with their children -- and she probably was in the Guard to save up money so that she could have children of her own.

[Michael P]

Does it violate Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, or some other law, for a university to harangue about a "Whiteness Epidemic"? Do university faculty or staff who grossly misrepresent a CDC statement deserve to keep their jobs?

https://innovation.umn.edu/culture-and-family-life-lab/whiteness-pandemic

They (unsurprisingly) do not specify what supposed CDC statement from 2021 identified racial as an epidemic. They appear to be misrepresenting Rochelle Walensky's April 2021 characterization of racism as a "serious public health threat". I expect that most of the rest of that page fares no better under examination than its first sentence.

[Malika la Maize]

It’s quite a stupid page. On top of many other things, consider that just by replacing “Whiteness” with “White Supremacy” or just “racism” they could get most of their points across without being so palpably offensive. It’s the academic equivalent of trying to be edgelords.

[Brett Bellmore]

As I've observed before, the left is caught in a kind of moral/ideological arms race, perpetually competing to be more extreme in order to rule out being declared not extreme enough and being purged. It would be hard to explain some of the insanity otherwise.

[Malika la Maize]

A better explanation is that it’s kind of inherent in Progressivism to push, or progress, the envelope.

Or just that this is what extremists of all stripes do (e.g., RINOs, no enemies to the right, etc.,).

[Brett Bellmore]

That's just a different description of the arms race.

The point is, it's always a moving target, which means two things:

1. Even if today's demand isn't outrageous, you know if you give in, tomorrow's demand will be worse.

2. If you're on the left, you have to keep moving further left, or be left behind.

[Randal]

I think Malika's point was, welcome to extremism. It's the same way on the right. Worse in fact, since your extremists actually got into power somehow. (Biden never believed all this "whiteness" crap, same as the vast majority of elected Democrats. We don't give in to the most outrageous among us*, in fact we mostly wish they'd shut up and go away. Do you think Biden enjoyed having self-described socialists on his side? No, he did not.)

* With the possible exceptions of New York and Seattle.

[NvEric]

Shouldn't that be 'right behind' ?

[John 4]

Brett states without a hint of irony.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Consider replacing "Whiteness" with "Blackness" -- or "Nigger."

I think we all know what would happen next, don't we?

Racism is bad -- all forms of racism!

[TwelveInchPianist]

"...consider that just by replacing “Whiteness” with “White Supremacy” or just “racism” they could get most of their points across without being so palpably offensive.

Their main point appears to be that white supremacy and racism are inseparable from being white, so I'm not sure how they could do that.

[Frank Drackman]

Every year Medical Screw-els have a "White-Coat" Ceremony usually held right before the Clinical (3rd year) of training.
"In My Day"(Angry Old Man Voice) we didn't have no stinkin' Ceremony, and you started wearing a White-Coat your first day, in the Gross Anatomy Lab, a few of the Dorks (not me believe it or not) had purchased new ones, but there were a bunch of left over ones (no Dry Cleaner can get that Formaldehyde smell out) from the year(s) before.
During Second Year you spent 1 day a week at the Hospital and you needed a non-toxic White Coat for that.
Oh, and there was a Caste System for the Coats, Attendings had the longest ones, Residents the next, Interns had shorter ones, and Med Students had the shortest of all, you looked like a friggin Bellhop at the Marriott.
Long way of saying,
"Why a "White" Coat??? A Black (or even better, Brown) would be much better at hiding Blood/Stool/Urine/Amnionic Fluid or my favorite, "Meconium" which is just a fancy word for Baby Poop (Keepin it clean EV!!!)
And it'd look much cooler, like Johnny Cash or Johnny Sack at a Funeral.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

Physicians dressed themselves in black and were painted in black garb until the late 19th century. Black attire was, and is, considered formal (e.g., today's tuxedo). Consequently until about 1900, physicians wore black for their patient interactions since medical encounters were thought of as serious and formal matters. Clergymen also dressed in black, which indicated the solemn nature of their role in encounters with parishioners. An additional or alternative possibility for the dark garb might be that until the late 19th century seeking medical advice was usually a last resort and frequently a precursor to death. Until the last third of the 1800s, an encounter with a physician rarely benefited the patient. In fact, up to that point, virtually all of "medicine" entailed many worthless cures and much quackery…

At the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries, when medicine became the truly scientific enterprise we now know, the "whiteness" or "pureness" of medicine became reflected in the garb of physicians and, interestingly, nurses.

Up until that time nuns in their black habits functioned as nurses, largely in almshouses. At the turn of the 19th century the black habits of the religious nursing orders became white. In fact to this day nurses in England are called sisters, because of their religious origins. Our society has carried this symbol of whiteness to the marriage altar where brides traditionally wear white as a symbol of their purity.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/doctors-white-coat-historical-perspective/2007-04

[Frank Drackman]

and Like Witches at Black Masses........
Gonna give you my Johnny Carson "I did not know that!"
During Internship they kept track of which Intern had signed the most Death Certificates, and gave a "Dr. Death" award at the end of the year (OK, there was no award, but they did keep track of the Death Certificates, along with Discharge Summaries and other various forms that Residents completed)
And the vast majority weren't patients you'd killed, I mean, umm, who "Died under your care" because while you did have to sign those, you also frequently had to sign ones for Private Patients you'd pronounced dead in the middle of the night so Attending Warbucks didn't have to come into the Hospital, or if you were the one running a "Code" where the Patient died (Patients only survive "Codes" in TV Hospitals)
And because I loved running Codes, and answered my Beeper, I pronounced lots of People dead. (You fell asleep near me at your own risk)
Last one I signed was a few years back at the "Free Clinic" Patient dropped dead while seeing Nurse Practitioner Khushi Tooshie Ramalama Ding-Dong Jabaar, and of course, I was the one to pronounce him dead.
There's a whole Technique to pronouncing someone dead
1: Make Sure they're really Dead (not as easy as it sounds, see Joe Biden 2021-2025)
2: While making the sign of the Cross, say
"In the name of Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, I hereby pronounce you Dead!"

OK, that was supposed to be a Joke, but I did have a Foreign Intern in my class ask how you pronounced someone Dead and I gave him a version of that.

Frank
"

[ThePublius]

You are so funny! I enjoyed that.

Your 'pronouncing someone dead' reminded me of that scene in "The Jerk" where the motorist says "damn these glasses," and Steven Martin take them and says "I damn thee!"

[Frank Drackman]

He hates these Cans! Stay away from the Cans!!!!!

[Brett Bellmore]

I wonder if it didn't have something to do with doctors learning the importance of sanitation; Black to hide the dirt, white to expose it so you could be sure of cleanliness?

[Joe_dallas]

Brett - M is far to consumed with hate to have any ability to think with any logic, common sense or decency.

[Malika la Maize]

My comment was an excerpt from an essay in a medical journal, dolt.

[Joe_dallas]

So you comment was from a medical journal - you failed to grasp the significance in your response to Frank

[Malika la Maize]

Do you even know what you’re talking about? Frank asked why they wear coats, I quoted and linked to an article about the history of that. Frank thought it was good enough: Gonna give you my Johnny Carson "I did not know that!" Or you as culturally illiterate as you are in science, history, logic etc.,?

Also, “so you comment?” Yes, me comment! lol

[ThePublius]

Easy to mistake, since you always fail to properly quote things you post.

[Malika la Maize]

We’ve had this discussion, Partisan Pubes. It’s all from the article and the link is supplied. But more importantly there’s no logical problem with anything in the posted excerpt *whoever* said it.

[Michael P]

(Deleted - I misinterpreted "Brett - M".)

[Malika la Maize]

Yes, that’s discussed in the link.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Another practical consideration, based on a lesson I learned selling photographic prints. You can't sell a red-themed photo to a hospital. Administrators fear to inflict the sight of red on trauma victims who may have bloody memories from recent experience.

In the 19th century, of course, surgeries like amputations were less controlled than presently. Black clothing shows blood as a darkening, more than as a red stain. White, the opposite. And white is indeed the ideal background to encourage alertness about contamination.

[ThePublius]

Queen Elizabeth I had the most to do with brides wearing white in the 'modern era,' 1840, as she did at her wedding in a break from royal tradition. But, yes, it goes to the purity, etc.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/04/queen-victoria-royal-wedding

[David Nieporent]

You mean Victoria, of course.

[Bwaaah]

This is like the bestest thread ever. And all because some simpleton follower didn't scrub 2020 from her website. (Her "whiteness epidemic" theory is here.) But it's no match for the realities of classist lab coats, the history of medical costume (and that field's only recent incorporation of science), and from-the-ground reflections from you-know-who. When you filter out some of the Ding-a-dong-isms, it's pure gold. All of it.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"Germ theory faced initial resistance from the medical community, which was accustomed to the miasma theory. However, by the end of the 19th century, the evidence supporting germ theory became overwhelming, leading to its widespread acceptance and the establishment of modern microbiology and hygiene practices."

What does chlorine bleach do to black clothing?

[Brett Bellmore]

Turkey came out great! We're now supplied for turkey sandwiches for the next week, a prospect that delights me, but has my wife threatening to freeze most of the white meat.

[Malika la Maize]

Why not the dark meat, just out of curiosity?

One of our favorite ways to use t-day leftovers is to shred up turkey and boil it a bit in gravy with some leftover veggies and then it either over toast or (my preference) rice.

[Brett Bellmore]

She LIKES the dark meat! But the breast meat is well suited for sandwiches, it slices up well into uniform slices.

Much of the dark meat is probably going to end up as turkey soup, or possibly turkey tetrazzini.

For breakfast I had turkey stuffing, or to be more accurate, the random stuff left on the platter after I was done breaking the turkey down and bagging it for the fridge. Those veggies the bird was sitting on, that spent 5 hours cooking in the drippings, are extremely yummy!

[Malika la Maize]

As I’ve gotten older I’ve started leaning more towards dark meat, but I get the point about breast meat fitting sandwiches better.

[Mr. Bumble]

Seems more people prefer white meat (for whatever reason). It's the reason turkeys are bred to have Sweeny and Parton breasts and not Kardasian butts.

[Malika la Maize]

Iirc preference varies by region.

[ThePublius]

My ex turned me on to dark meat for all kinds of poultry. It is, in my opinion, more flavorful and more moist. But, there's a place for nice, thin slices of breast meat on open turkey sandwiches.

[Malika la Maize]

I should qualify that I like thighs more, for the reasons you note, still not into legs much.

On cooking shows it seems the big name chefs prefer thighs for most things, fwiw.

[Brett Bellmore]

Turkey leg quarters make incredible confit, and that's how I generally cook them if by themselves. The leg meat is a bit drier than the thigh, and has all those tendons, but is alright for soup.

The best piece is that lump buried in a pocket in the bone, but even on a large turkey there's hardly more than one serving of that, and you don't reach it until you're disassembling the bird anyway.

So I guess I'd agree with you, I just like the white meat for sandwiches.

[Mr. Bumble]

"... still not into legs much."
Unlike John Madden and his multi-legged turkey?

[Frank Drackman]

Gave up the Turkey several years ago when a Thanksgiving Eve cancelled flight stranded me in Pensacola FL, and Magically, the Hooters there was open.
Had Frozen Pizza, (HT to Chicago Home Run Inn) cooked on my Woodfired Outdoor Pizza Oven, some Jamaican Jerk Wings, all washed down with Alcoholic Dos Equis.
What flavor Pizza?? Umm, OK, Sausage, don't tell Jay-Hay.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

Hooters has a kick-ass fried chicken sandwich, I remember eating them when I’d never heard of Popeyes.

[Frank Drackman]

Mrs. Drackman's been freezing my White Meat for years.

[Bwaaah]

"I was in the freezer! I was in the freezer!"

[Bwaaah]

Ducksalad was left yesterday with Mrs. Ducksalad playing Human Thermostat to get their turkey cooked in a malfunctioning oven. Haven't heard yet whether she was ultimately successful.

That, along with your temperature probe issues, made for a rough Thanksgiving vis-a-vis appliances. Now if they can just integrate AI, we can stop with turning the ovens on, "re-boot" them instead, and thereby incorporate a 30 second delay before being able to see them malfunction.

I knew it was the beginning of the end when my mother-in-law couldn't figure out how to turn on her new dishwasher.

[ducksalad]

It worked. Breast slightly dry (but OK with gravy). The problem was my mathematical/chemistry error. As you recall the plan was to cycle it between 300 and 400 to get the same average effect as the intended roast temperature of 350. Too simplistic. Chemical reactions have an exponential dependence on temperature; thus, the faster reaction at 400 overcompensated the slower reaction at 300. Hence, dry breast. If we had not panicked we could have figured it out, Mrs. Ducksalad has an MS in Math.

I did not respond to your final comment last night. You were correct that thermocouples are accurately repeatable and thus interchangeable without calibration. The issue is that, while themselves cheaper than less accurate devices, they require a second sensor to know cold junction reference and an accurate differential amplifier, rendering the whole system more expensive. So paradoxically, or perhaps ironically, your first guess about a resistive device was more likely, and those do indeed need calibration since the material curve is very accurate but the absolute resistance value not so much. Although still less likely than my litigation explanation.

The lesson here, which I am sure you were taught in school but have since forgotten, is never change your first answer on a test.

[Bwaaah]

interesting

[Drewski]

I think it's fair to assume the people posting on Thanksgiving around lunchtime are either foreign shills or so unpleasant they had nothing better to do.

[bloocow2]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[Mr. Bumble]

You should remember the adage regarding "assume".

[Drewski]

You don't need my help making an ass of you.

[Moderation4ever]

What are you talking about? Martha Stewart has said that the perfect time for Thanksgiving dinner is 2PM. Lunchtime posters ar clearing their to do to be ready to eat.

[ThePublius]

I agree with Martha. I always shoot for 1:30, and it always slides out to 2:00 p.m. Plenty of time in the morning for turkey trots, etc., and then hors d'oeuvres, cocktails, and then a great, big dinner and just sitting around in a turkey coma for the rest of the afternoon.

My oven goes fast. I think the temperature calibration is off. My turkey was done early, in a total of 2 hours or so for a 12.3 lb. bird. I use a remote thermometer with two probes, one in the thigh and one in the breast, so I know I'm safe, and when its done. I should use one probe to measure oven temp next time!

It's not a very big oven, so I used my new toaster oven for the stuffing. Worked great.

[Brett Bellmore]

I aim for whenever my wife says she wants dinner served, which was 5pm yesterday.

Turkey went in at a quarter to 11, came out about 4pm, and then 'rested' while I baked the rolls and green bean casserole.

Mom used to have a second stove in the laundry room that was used just for holidays so that we didn't have to do things like that, but I couldn't sell my wife on keeping a 2nd stove around that would only see 2-3 days use a year.

Today I'm supposed to bake a bunch of cranberry-cheese quick bread. In fact, I should get started on that.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

You can buy a turkey roaster right now for $50.

[Michael P]

Not so. I went on a Turkey Trot at 8:30, followed by breakfast, then went to a pre-feast Thanksgiving volleyball game around 1:30 -- and my general experience is that Thanksgiving is an early dinner rather than lunch-adjacent. All I was obliged to do between 11:30 and 1:30 was shower and dress. (Some of my family walked the 4-mile Turkey Trot, so we were there for 90+ minutes.)

[Moderation4ever]

Good for you for running. It a great way to start the Holiday. I did it for many years but have now retired.

[Malika la Maize]

Some people have the Thanksgiving meal at dinner time (especially if they are smoking the bird).

[Mr. Bumble]

Wondering, does anyone's Thanksgiving dinner stretch from noon to night?
When I was a kid we would spend Thanksgiving at my maternal grandmother's. Dinner would start at around 2:00 with soup, then pasta, then the turkey et al, then coffee and pie, then fruit and nuts.
Besides Mom and Dad, Mom's two sisters and their husbands and my brothers and cousins various other relatives would pop in and out the whole time.
Beginning around 5:00 when the table was cleared and the dishes done someone would make a bakery run for bread and rolls for sandwiches and the poker game would start.
"Dinner" would finally break up at around 10:00.

[ducksalad]

Almost the same. Food ready 2:30pm. Had my last plate of stuffing with gravy around 10pm.

Also, I am not a foreign shill.

[santamonica811]

Our Thanksgiving started at 2 pm. We ate pudding after 8 pm. That gave us time for a long and relaxed feast, with various people lurching off to the couch to deal with their food comas from time-to-time. So, a tiny bit longer than Bumble's...but in the same ballpark.

[Dr. Ed 2]

In New England, "Dinner" is the midday meal -- the largest and most ornate because it gave the women 4-5 hours of daylight to clean up afterwards.

[hobie]

The U.S. military has killed more than 80 people since the campaign began in early September. But it does not know who specifically is being killed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/27/us/politics/us-military-boat-strikes.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4k8.oDgZ.0tEXHhuAlcAl&smid=url-share

A Fox ('Yeah, Dominion, we pretty much lie about everything') influencer seated at the Polygon of Doom (Pentagon) ordering the Department of War to bomb civilians in the Gulf of America. Oh, we're almost 70% sure this is drug related. Just shut up and trust us. The evidence is a thousand feet under water if you cared to look.

Since who these people are and what they're doing is entirely speculative, I like to believe they are part of the Duck Dynasty Cartel who run brutal mallard sweatshops trying to bust California's foie gras ban.

[Frank Drackman]

So Reverend (or can I call you "Jerry"?), what DID they serve you yesterday at SCI Laurel Highlands?
I know, Turkey, I mean the side dishes.

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

“the Duck Dynasty Cartel who run brutal mallard sweatshops trying to bust California's foie gras ban.”

Good one!

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Hope everyone, even Lions/Chiefs/Ravens fans, had a Happy Thanksgiving. Part of Trump's official Thanksgiving Proclamation:

This year, God has bestowed abundant blessings all across our land and indeed the entire world. As we give thanks to Him, we continue to advance our Nation through strong leadership and commonsense policy. As a result, the American economy is roaring back, we are making progress on lowering the cost of living, a new era of peace is sweeping around the world, our sovereignty is being swiftly restored, and the American spirit is coming back greater and more powerful than ever before.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/thanksgiving-day-2025/

He later added some thoughts of a somewhat different caliber (not including calling someone with a disabled son "seriously retarded" and an attack on the religious/cultural garb of a congresswoman -- one more concern for Josh Blackman's religious liberty commission?) regarding "all Third World Countries."

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2025/11/frohes-erntedankfest ["Happy Thanksgiving"]

There are references to things not "compatible with Western Civilization" and those who "hate, steal, murder, and destroy everything American stands for." Ah, irony.

I look forward to his nightly thoughts on Christmas Day, which might make King Herod proud.

(Portrayed by Antonio Banderas in Journey to Jerusalem, a musical version of the Nativity Story.

[hobie]

A touching fireside chat from our rapist in chief. I think for Christmas he might wax on about the shithole Arab wise men from their shithole countries invaded Palestine on Christmas and how, were he president then, he would have blown up them and their drug-smuggling shithole camels.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Stephen Miller, who cannot be explained away as "incapacitated," very well might be one of the ghostwriters.

Trump's messaging is not new here, either. To the degree he is more unhinged these days, it is a matter of degree.

[David Nieporent]

drug-smuggling

Frankincense and myrrh sound like controlled substances to me.

[Magister]

Code names for fentanyl and meth, I expect.

[Magister]

The wisest of the three men had the foresight to bring gold, though, so he could probably buy his way out of trouble.

[John F. Carr]

I have a great distrust of any politician who invokes "common sense."

[Mr. Bumble]

Not a fan of Paine?

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Pretty Maids All in a Row was recently on TCM.

This is a strange movie, written and produced by the guy responsibile for Star Trek.

Rock Hudson is the local stud school counsellor with a thing for (female) students. He counsels a sex starved student, who is tortured by all the sexy girls (that the camera especially lingers over in the opening of the film) and Angie Dickinson, a new teacher. Who Hudson suggests "counsel" the boy.

Meanwhile, students are being murdered. Teddy Savalas is on the case, but not as Kojak (that came a bit later).

James Doohan ("Scotty") has a small part. Roddy McDowall (Planet of the Apes and a lot more) plays a mostly useless principal.

Roger Vadim (of Barbarella fame) directs.

[ThePublius]

"Teddy Savalas is on the case"
Telly, nickname of Aristotelis.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

aka Jennifer Aniston's (her father's name was originally Yannis Anastassakis) Godfather.

[ThePublius]

Interesting!

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

It was a break!!!

[RobinGoodfellow]

Who loves you, baby?

[Frank Drackman]

Oh Man, when Foo-bawl gets over (next week) I've gotta watch that one.

[John F. Carr]

Wikipedia says Angie Dickinson is still alive and 94 years old.

[Frank Drackman]

That Larry King Juice is the Elixir of Life.

[Moderation4ever]

Wow, what a message. The President is obliviously detached from reality. All he needs is a couple of steel bearing to roll in his hands and he'll be telling us about the strawberries. Next years Thanksgiving theme Purity of Essences?

[Moderation4ever]

Sorry this was in response to JoeFromtheBronx posting the President's Thanksgiving message.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It'll be interesting to see what happens. As the left learned with Biden, part of being incapacitated means that you're not going to remove yourself. and it seems there's very little incentive for the folks in a position to do so to actually do it.

Hopefully we will figure out a way to remove folks when they become incapacitated by age.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Regarding the two National Guard troops, I agree with Chris Geidner, who resides in D.C., who said the troops shouldn't have been there in the first place:

The shooting is horrible, and the West Virginia National Guard troops should not have faced violence on Wednesday or any day.

https://substack.com/inbox/post/180075483

One of two National Guard members shot just blocks from the White House died on Thursday, as the authorities scrambled to understand the motives of the suspect, an Afghan man who once served in an anti-Taliban force supported by the C.I.A.

Army Specialist Sarah Beckstrom, 20, succumbed to her wounds

https://archive.ph/xFdPA

Further:

Trump officials have criticized the Biden administration for allowing Mr. Lakanwal into the country. However, Mr. Lakanwal was granted asylum in April, after Mr. Trump's return to office, according to three people with knowledge of the case who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Somewhat related:

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/resources/podcasts/discussions-with-dpic/experts-discuss-new-dpi-report-on-veterans-and-the-death-penalty

"Now, of course, the majority of military veterans do not commit crimes, much less capital crimes, but there is a troubling battlefield-to-prison pipeline. Previous research had established that about one-third of military veterans are arrested following their service, compared to fewer than one-fifth of civilians."

[Frank Drackman]

I've heard that Lee Harvey Oswald was a Veteran, so was Charles Whitman, James Earl Ray, Jeffy Dahmer, even that really horrible Woman-Asphyxiator Ted Kennedy and Strother Martin, Ronaldus Maximus, Lee Marvin, and Steve McQueen.
You know who wasn't? Ted Bundy
or Charles Manson, John Wilkes Booth, the Menendez Brothers, and Bill Clinton.

[not guilty]

Have you heard that Eric and Lyle Menendez originally planned to kill their parents by suffocation, rather than a shotgun?

They changed their plans when it dawned on them that they would thereafter be called the smothers brothers.

[John F. Carr]

On the last item, the two things I want to know next are

1. How does the arrest rate compare to others from the same demographic who didn't serve?

2. If veterans includes all who were in the military, what is the difference between those who did and did not see combat?

[Bwaaah]

Years ago, a friend of mine served in the National Guard in Afghanistan. He described to me the local bilingual Afghanis who assisted the U.S. military at great personal risk (and probably for much-needed pay as well). Those local Afghanis were normal cohabitants of his base, and in particular, he had become friends with one of the native helpers.

When my friend finished his tour, he described his deep concern for his Afghani helper friend. Many of those helpers applied for asylum in the U.S., but the provisions for processing them were almost non-existent and mired in competing political concerns. It appeared that there was little-to-no special effort in helping those people who helped the U.S.

There is a fucked up minority in every sizeable population. But is that cause to malign so many good servants, the truly heroic and/or honestly desperate people who genuinely helped us prosecute our war? Hell no. Many of those people contributed more to our security than most of us "natives" ever will.

We should try to keep the shit-colored lenses out of our eyeglasses.

[Poxigah146]

"Slay idolaters wherever you may find them."

The problem is Islam. We need to reinterpret the 1st Amendment to put Islam as an enemy belief system, and not a real religion.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

I opposed Republicans whining about Afghan interpreters after Trump’s wise surrender to the Taliban. That said, so long as everyone agreed how dumb the GWOT was and how dumb it was to improve the lives of Afghans that harbored 9/11 terrorists and like we have some sense of obligation to care for these foreigners…I would have relented and deferred to the actual war fighters that enlisted after 9/11 while I was beginning a career thanks to their sacrifices. So I respect those that served but I don’t necessarily respect their opinions about political issues…but on this issue their views should be respected because they were making the sacrifices. Afghans sponsored by military personnel should have been admitted to America.

[Poxigah146]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/26/us/chicago-immigration-arrests-ruling-hnk

Who the fuck does this piece of shit think he is?

[Michael P]

Emperor R. Brooke Jackson, apparently.

[Frank Drackman]

So Sergeant Major Pepper-Waltz wants the MRI results released.
Shouldn't his Physician have already gone over the results with him?
Going back to the Grooveyard of Quotes (HT Y. Berra)

"MRI of Waltz's Spine showed Nothing"

Frank

[Estragon]

“I will permanently pause migration from all Third World Countries to allow the U.S. system to fully recover, terminate all of the millions of Biden illegal admissions, including those signed by Sleepy Joe Biden's Autopen, and remove anyone who is not a net asset to the United States, or is incapable of loving our Country, end all Federal benefits and subsidies to noncitizens of our Country, denaturalize migrants who undermine domestic tranquility, and deport any Foreign National who is a public charge, security risk, or non- compatible with Western Civilization.”

Do the Philippines or Cambodia (random examples) count as Third World countries? If my spouse were from of one of those countries, how should I advise them to conduct themselves to avoid disturbing domestic tranquility?

When the President talks about my spouse being a “net asset” is that in a strictly monetary sense? Do they need to make more than 80k a year to be a net positive? Are there other ways that someone might be an asset or are we just looking at income?

What qualities should they possess or demonstrate to show their compatibility with Western Civilization?

[Frank Drackman]

He's way more lenient than me, I'd make coming to the US like joining an exclusive Fraternity, expensive (non refundable) application fee, then a private interview with the admissions committee, and if we think you're a possible new member, the "Pledge Week" (is that what they call it? "Pledge Week"?? or am I thinking PBS) where you endure tortures not even dreamed of by the Mighty Phalaris of Akragas.
And even if we let you in we can always kick you out if you commit some Faux Paux.

Frank

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

And you get to buttfuck the pledges, right?

[Frank Drackman]

The cute ones.

[John F. Carr]

Doubtless many in the Trump administration are asking the same questions as they try to turn the statement into a policy. You're going to have to wait for official rules.

[Estragon]

Are you suggesting that removals for insufficient “love of country” will not occur until an official policy is promulgated? Let’s say theoretically you, John, were in charge of creating such a policy. What would it look like? Are there actions a, say, Cambodian spouse should take or avoid taking today to avoid being deemed insufficiently loving once these “official rules” are created?

[John F. Carr]

I'm not familiar with the procedures for interviewing potential immigrants about their motives.

[Estragon]

This is not about people seeking to come here. It says “denaturalize” in the quoted material above. How would you construct an “official rule” outlining what “incapable of loving our country” means?

How about for “disturbing domestic tranquility”? Would that mean criminal conduct or something more broad, do you figure?

[bernard11]

What slimeball creature would "try to turn the statement into a policy?"

[DDHarriman]

They have the data that show lifetime net to society by demographic.

It's as you would expect. White natural families carry the burden.

[Estragon]

So, being a “net asset” is a financial calculation? What does that mean exactly? Lifetime earnings? Taxes paid? Contribution to GDP?

Are there, in your estimation, ways in which a person might contribute positively to society that might not be reflected in your “data”?

Furthermore you assert this data is broken down by “demographic.” When deciding who is removable on the basis of not being a “net asset”— would those determinations be made on an individualized basis? Or is mere demographics a sufficient basis for removal regardless of individual circumstances? Conversely, would individuals in your favored demographics (“white, natural families”) be categorically protected from removal regardless of individual circumstances? Just to pick one example entirely at random— Elon Musk, while white, does not appear to be part of a “natural” family at this time. Is he removable on that basis?

[John F. Carr]

DHS has so far interpreted "third world countries" to mean

Afghanistan, Burundi, Chad, Congo Republic, Cuba, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Laos, Myanmar, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Togo, Turkmenistan, Venezuela, and Yemen.

Immigration from these countries was already restricted following a presidential order in June.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/national-guard-shooting-suspect-face-murder-charges-trump-freeze-third-world-2025-11-28/

[bernard11]

Just to be 100% clear this hateful, loathsome, ignorant, and downright stupid statement came from Donald Trump.

I wonder who is going to say they approve of it.

[David Nieporent]

Hegseth better hopes he stays on Trump's good side so as to receive a pardon, because there's no statute of limitations for murder.

Hegseth order on first Caribbean boat strike, officials say: Kill them all
As two men clung to a stricken, burning ship targeted by SEAL Team 6, the Joint Special Operations commander followed the defense secretary’s order to leave no survivors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/28/hegseth-kill-them-all-survivors-boat-strike/

As the article notes, it would be a war crime even if they were enemy combatants and we were at war.

[Mr. Bumble]

More hearsay from the paywalled Washington Post?

[David Nieporent]

If you cared, you could've found the unpaywalled version, but here: https://archive.is/M8lkF

[Mr. Bumble]

Why would I care about unsubstantiated opinion?

[David Nieporent]

I have no idea what you are talking about (and neither do you). The story reports fact.

[Absaroka]

Someone should remind service members they have a duty to refuse illegal orders. You can get in trouble for killing survivors:

"Heinz-Wilhelm Eck (27 March 1916 – 30 November 1945) was a German U-boat commander of the Second World War who was tried, convicted, condemned and executed after the war for ordering his crew to shoot the survivors of a Greek merchantman sunk by U-852."

[Life of Brian]

I know it's poor form not to just uncritically swallow anonymously-sourced stuff that feelz so right, but has anyone bothered taking a run at a coherent theory on why this nearly three-month old, purportedly seismic event 1) took so long to come to light in the first place; and 2) emerged with such production-quality timing after about a week's worth of buzz over the "illegal orders" PSA?

[David Nieporent]

Of course there's a coherent theory: someone got disgusted with all the sanctimony about how it was "sedition" because there weren't any illegal orders (which is a nonsensical argument anyway), and couldn't stay silent any longer.

[Life of Brian]

Huh. So these two fine fellettes were just peachy continuing for months to be part of an operation where such pitch-perfect, immensely caricatured illegal orders were supposedly being issued, but then all of a sudden after the "sure is a nice career you have there" video was released managed to remember the ground rules from basic training and bravely refused to... oh, I mean STILL CONTINUED to be part of the operation and just started whisper-leaking non-falsifiable details to the eager-beaver press.

I guess it's a theory, but apparently you and I have somewhat different views on the meaning of "coherent."

[bernard11]

So let's be clear, LoB. You think this all a lie.

Does that mean you in fact agree that such an order would be illegal, and those issuing it and obeying it should be punished? I mean, why lie about a legal order?

If the Post story turns out to be true, what will be your reaction?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Assuming the allegations are true, an order to kill people that are hors de combat would be unlawful, and IMO a person of ordinary sense and understanding would know it was unlawful. So the Special Operations commander who ordered killing of the survivors and the people who carried it out should be charged with murder, if there's evidence to support the Post's reporting.

But based on the article, I'm not sure it's clear that that's what Hegseth orders. Generally, I would assume an order to "Kill them all" directed at legitimate targets (assuming for the sake of argument that the boat was a legitimate target) comes with caveats. Hopefully we'll get more evidence about what Hegseth said.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"the Joint Special Operations commander followed the defense secretary’s order to leave no survivors."

This claim in the caption isn't really supported by the reporting in the article. Unless WAPO has something more, this sounds like journalistic malpractice.

[bernard11]

Couple of things, TiP.

First, the article says,

This report is based on interviews with and accounts from seven people with knowledge of the Sept. 2 strike and the overall operation.

The commander overseeing the operation from Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Adm. Frank M. “Mitch” Bradley, told people on the secure conference call that the survivors were still legitimate targets because they could theoretically call other traffickers to retrieve them and their cargo, according to two people. He ordered the second strike to fulfill Hegseth’s directive that everyone must be killed.

The protocols were changed after the strike to emphasize rescuing suspected smugglers if they survived strikes, according to three people. It is unclear who directed the change in protocol and when exactly it took shape.

Most important:

Later in the day, President Donald Trump released a redacted 29-second surveillance drone video showing the attack. The video does not include any footage of the subsequent strike on the survivors.

... the Pentagon has not fulfilled a bipartisan request from lawmakers to see unedited footage — making it impossible to verify any of the administration’s claims.

I'd say there is plenty there, unless a lot of people lied to the reporters, to justify serious suspicions.

Of course, Trump could quash all that by just releasing the full video.

I await the contorted defenses by the usual ass-kissers.

[TwelveInchPianist]

As I said, the second strike looks pretty bad.

But I'm not sure what your comment has to do with my specific claim, that you are responding to, that the WAPO seems a little ahead of their skis when they claim that Hegseth gave an "order to leave no survivors."

The article really wants us to think that Hegseth gave some sort of "no quarter" order, and maybe he did, but it really doesn't seem like they've got the goods.

[David Nieporent]

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gave a verbal directive, according to two people with direct knowledge of the operation. “The order was to kill everybody,” one of them said.

Now, one can argue that those two people are mistaken or lying — or if one is nothing more than a troll one can argue that WaPo made up these sources — but one can't argue that this doesn't support the "'no quarter' order" premise. Similarly for this:

The commander overseeing the operation from Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Adm. Frank M. “Mitch” Bradley, told people on the secure conference call that the survivors were still legitimate targets because they could theoretically call other traffickers to retrieve them and their cargo, according to two people. He ordered the second strike to fulfill Hegseth’s directive that everyone must be killed.

[TwelveInchPianist]

As I said, an order to "Kill Everybody" or otherwise destroy a legitimate target doesn't necessarily imply that you should still kill them after they become hors de combat. It may be that Hegseth gave such an order, but "Kill Everybody" when the target is still legitimate doesn't cut it.

"He ordered the second strike to fulfill Hegseth’s directive that everyone must be killed."

And as I said, that was an unlawful order and probably should be charged.

[David Nieporent]

So your hypothesis is that although Hegseth said "Kill everybody" he really only meant "sink the boat to destroy the drugs," and the admiral misinterpreted it to mean "kill everybody"?

[bernard11]

And I'm not sure what you are saying.

Is it that you think the second strike likely happened, but Hegseth never gave the order, and it's on Adm. Bradley's head?

Or are you dubious that the second strike happened at all?

Does the WaPo "have the goods?" I'd say their case is pretty strong that it happened.

In briefing materials provided to the White House, JSOC reported that the “double-tap,” or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels — not to kill survivors, according to another person who saw the report.

JSOC's claim is transparent horseshit.

And there's plenty of evidence Hegseth gave the order. Besides, would Bradley do it on his own? Not very likely.

Maybe I'm still missing your point. Could you clarify?

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Is it that you think the second strike likely happened, but Hegseth never gave the order, and it's on Adm. Bradley's head?"

I don't know if any of it happened, of course. But assuming the facts in the article are accurate, and assuming for the sake of argument that the occupants of the boat were legitimate targets, it's not clear that Hegseth gave an illegal order.

But the rest of it was illegal and should be prosecuted, if the facts are correct. I agree that JSOC's claim is transparent horseshit.

[Frank Drackman]

Sir, have you no Decency???

[Krayt]

As the article notes, it would be a war crime even if they were enemy combatants and we were at war.

An enemy vehicle loaded with enemies intent to do harm to your nation, with which you are at war?

Sorry, you don't need to be magnanimous, you don't need to know who they are, or have proof. At war they are fair game. There must be more to the above quote, because it is inane on the surface of it.

[David Nieporent]

Sorry, you don't need to be magnanimous, you don't need to know who they are, or have proof. At war they are fair game.

This is of course irrelevant to the Caribbean situation since there isn't a war, but your claim is utterly false. You can't murder survivors after you sink a vessel. People have been executed for that.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Can you assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends for call you a poop head?? Because Trump did that and wasn’t prosecuted.

[hobie]

"Even if the U.S. were at war with the traffickers, an order to kill all the boat’s occupants if they were no longer able to fight “would in essence be an order to show no quarter, which would be a war crime,” said Huntley, now director of the national security law program at Georgetown Law."

[TwelveInchPianist]

Interesting. According to reporting

As a result, according to the legal analysis, the strikes are targeting the cocaine, and the deaths of anyone on board should be treated as an enemy casualty or collateral damage if any civilians are killed, rather than murder.

If the target is supposed to be the drugs, an order to kill anybody would be outside the scope of the OLC opinion.

[Absaroka]

There has long been this thing: "I wasn't shooting at the enemy soldier, I was shooting at his uniform, to destroy the uniform, not the soldier wearing it".

I dunno about this. It reminds me of when your Mom tells you to keep your hands out of the cookie jar, and when she finds the cookies gone your defense is "I used tongs to get the cookies out, not my hands!". I suppose at this point you either get spanked or not. If you get spanked, that kind of guardhouse lawyering seems silly going forward. If you Mom says "Good point, no worries" then guardhouse lawyering seems fine and dandy. I got spanked, so I'm not a fan of that kind of logic.

It's perhaps worth remembering that 'I was shooting at the lifeboats, not the people in them' hasn't always worked well in the past. You pays your money and takes your chances.

[TwelveInchPianist]

IIRC people said things like that based on an erroneous belief that you could use an M60 to target equipment, but not troops.

But there are similar real life scenarios. If there's a civilian standing on a strategic bridge, to can tell someone to target the bridge, killing the person, but you better not tell anybody to smoke the fucker on the bridge.

[bernard11]

There has long been this thing: "I wasn't shooting at the enemy soldier, I was shooting at his uniform, to destroy the uniform, not the soldier wearing it".

Anyone who advances this defense should be imprisoned for stupidity.

[David Nieporent]

I don't quite understand this, because your quote does not appear at your link.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Oops.

I'm saying that if the OLC opinion said they can target the drugs, then an order to kill the people would not be covered.

[NvEric]

Winter weather advisory for approximately 46 million Americans screams a headline. These advisories have been around, but after the Covid scam, beware of these as they may be enforced through stronger means.

Luckily, out West there are fewer of these events. But, don't think you can move here at will. No. Most of us follow the US Constitution, so don't bring your foreign ways here.

[Frank Drackman]

I don't want to live in Mississippi anyway.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

DeSantis and McMaster have shut down schools over inclement weather.