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Could the United States Unilaterally Grant Puerto Rico Independence?
Puerto Rico does not have a viable path towards statehood, and it is unclear what value Commonwealth status provides to the United States.
Last week, the Wall Street Journal published an opinion piece by Pablo José Hernández, the resident commissioner of Puerto Rico. He is basically the non-voting member in Congress for Puerto Rico, and caucuses with Democrats. The ostensible purpose of the essay was to celebrate Puerto Rico's position as a commonwealth. Puerto Rico receives all of the benefits of being part of the United States, without the burdens of most taxes.
My colleagues in Congress ask why I back commonwealth status. I always answer with two words: taxes and culture. Puerto Rico residents are exempt from most federal income-tax laws, although they contribute to Social Security, Medicare and other programs. This allows the government of Puerto Rico to levy taxes of as much as 33% on income above $61,500 and keep most of the revenue generated. If we had to pay both federal and state income tax, we would fall deeper into bankruptcy. We would nearly need to double our total income tax burden or lower our state income tax to pay federal income taxes. Both options are fiscally untenable.
Moreover, Hernández celebrates how Puerto Rico has a culture distinct from that of the United States:
Although proud American citizens, most Puerto Ricans view themselves as a distinct nationality. The relationship with the U.S. is similar to that between Quebec and Canada or Catalonia and Spain. That national identity was on display for millions during Bad Bunny's recent concert residency in Puerto Rico, as it is every four years when the island competes with its own team at the Olympics.
Then why not pursue independence? Because Puerto Ricans value their U.S. citizenship, close ties with the mainland, serving in the armed forces and contributing to the American economy.
Hernández is certainly trying to sell his colleagues on why commonwealth status is a benefit for Puerto Rico. But there is little said about what the United States receives from this arrangement.
What if Congress determines that the costs of maintaining Puerto Rico as a commonwealth exceeds the benefits? Here, I will pose a provocative question: Could the United States unilaterally grant Puerto Rico independence? In other words, could Congress simply state that the United States no longer wishes to maintain Puerto Rico as a commonwealth. I do not think the United States could return Puerto Rico to Spain. Could Congress just dispose of the territory by granting it independence? Puerto Rico can then self-determine its status among the nations.
In the Heritage Guide, Gary Lawson flagged these questions as open in his essay on the Territories Clause.
Can the United States maintain and govern territory indefinitely without making the territory a state or granting it independence? Can the United States unilaterally grant a territory independence without the territory's consent?
And Zack Smith discussed related questions in his essay on the Claims Clause. Specifically, when the Phillipines was granted independence, it was argued that a constitutional amendment was needed to relinquish the territory. This argument did not prevail.
The Claims Clause has spawned no notable litigation, but it did receive fleeting attention in the early twentieth century. At the time, the United States considered granting independence to the Philippines, a territory it had acquired following the Spanish-American War. Some legal commentators argued that this proviso prohibited the United States from granting independence to any territory once it had been acquired because doing so would "prejudice" the beneficial interests each state enjoyed in that territory. Independence could be granted only if each state consented to that disposition.18 Others argued against this reading of the clause, and subsequent practice proved this "prejudice" argument to be a nonstarter.19 If the United States were ever to consider granting independence to any of its remaining territories, this argument could be raised.
18. F. Harold Smith, Correspondence: The Right of Congress to Grant Philippines Sovereign Independence, 19 Ill. L.R. 339, 342–43 (1924–1925). 19. Vincente G. Sinco, The Power of Congress to Relinquish Sovereignty over the Philippines (Concluded), 7 Phil. L. J. 60, 70–71 (1927).
I don't know the answers here.
There is an ancillary issue. Puerto Ricans do not have birthright citizenship by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment. Rather, citizenship was granted by statute. And that statute could be repealed. Here, we head directly into the Insular Cases. But how would the Insular Cases apply if a territory was simply relinquished. Indeed, the arguments against the Insular Cases seem to presume that a territory will forever remain in that status, and that Congress will not dispose of the territory. Would the Constitution require granting citizenship to the people of a territory that Congress does not intend to keep, let alone admit as a state?
These questions have been bubbling in my head for some time, but the Wall Street Journal piece caused me to reconsider them.
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It is difficult to not read the subtext of what Blackman is talking about, especially given the ... swerve at the end.
That said, as a basic matter of fairness and justice, the United States should not have any territories or enclaves or "federal districts." Period. That is a relic of colonialism, however gussied up, and should not be countenanced.
Puerto Rico and D.C. should be states (or, perhaps in the case of D.C., the majority of D.C. should be a state and a very tiny rump that does not contain actual residents would remain federal), period.
For reference-
Puerto Rico would be the 33rd largest state.
D.C. would be the 50th state (ahead of Vermont and Wyoming).
Of course, this does leave four places that are a little more complicated and that do not get the same level of attention-
U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands. The reason for the complication is, of course, population (Guam has approximately 150k, USVI ~90k, the others are just under 50k). That isn't really viable (IMO, open to arguments against).
For those places, we could do something creative (combine Guam, AS, and NMI into one state, or the three with Hawaii, or something, and the USVI with PR?). Or find some other way to ensure that we do not have "people in territories," but just parts of America.
Or ... we need to cut the territories loose so that they are independent. And given our long histories in all these places, the people who live there should be given the choice. In, or out.
It's the right and moral thing to do.
Given the US’s history in Latin America (and elsewhere), I’d understand why the island territories would absolutely prefer an ambiguous territory/commonwealth status to “independence.” This is also replicated in other colonial relationships.
Independence in this context historically means substantial interference from the colonial power without any associated benefit. We saw Neo-colonialism in Latin America in the 19th-early 20th centuries. We saw (and see) it in Africa after decolonization.
So I’m not convinced it’s actually moral to give them independence when everybody knows it can easily be an phantom independence. What’s going to happen when independent Puerto Rico, which would still have substantial US business and cultural ties, elects an ardently socialist government? Or starts siding against it in international matters? (Say by recognizing Palestine) Is the US (particularly under the GOP) really going to be okay with that? Or are they going to interfere in various ways up to and including manufacturing a coup or a military occupation?
Well, that would be their choice. Look, self-determination is important.
This isn't the 1800s. And this is America, not an empire. We do not govern territories, however benignly. Either they choose to be a state, or they can choose to be independent.
To me, this is a moral imperative. You're either a full part of the United States, with all the rights (full representation) and all the responsibilities (taxes) that it entails, or you're not a part of the United States. We do not have colonies.
I think you’re normatively correct that this is how the world and US should operate. But I don’t think we can ignore the historical context here: integration into the US political system, even in this ambiguous second class status (with unlimited opportunity to move to the mainland and be a full citizen)
After independence they might not be formal
“colonies” but they’re still subject to our whims. Would Puerto Rico rather have its current ambiguous status? Or be subject to a US backed Trujillo or Batista or Pinochet?
A gilded cage is still a cage. Look, I'm not going to say that the United States has a good history with gunboat diplomacy in Central and South America ... um, history? Oh, wait, PRESENT.
But that doesn't matter. This isn't just about PR, it's also about our own values- and colonies (however nicely we want to discuss them, or treat them) are anathema to what America should stand for. People should have the right to determine their own destiny, and not be subject to the whims of a government over which they have no control. All of the supposed "rights" that Puerto Rico enjoys now are ephemeral, instantly changeable and revocable by a foreign legislature in which they have no representation.
Sound familiar?
So yes, they should get a say in their future- and it should be as an independent country (and we should help them in the transition, given ... everything) or as a full part of the United States.
Right. But we won’t. And historically haven’t which is the problem from the territories’ perspective.
" People should have the right to determine their own destiny "
Then why not let PR choose? Why force your views on them?
OTOH, the U.S. has had territories literally from the moment of its independence, even predating (but of course continuing through) the ratification of the constitution. The distinction, of course, is that those were never intended to be permanent arrangements; there was an implicit understanding that once they had enough people to justify it, they would become states, and the racist logic of the later Insular Cases didn't apply.
The Samoan arrangement is the one that most deserves criticism. Puerto Ricans, Guamians (I don't know what the demonym is), Virgin Islanders, Northern Mariana Islanders… they're all citizens. But Samoans are only U.S. nationals, not citizens.
Agreed on all counts. Especially about American Samoa. That's inexcusable.
But yes, there was always the understanding the territories would become states, until that understanding shifted ... for REASONS (that reason being the other R word).
And then ... we just kind of forgot about it. The whole racist colonialist thing.
...Pepperidge Farm remembers. And so do I.
The United States, from the beginning of the Constitution, had a federal district not a state by explicit design. So no, DC should not be a state, because the Constitution explicitly says otherwise, for very good historical reasons which everyone conveniently forgets. And has nothing to do with denying political representation to blacks. I say this as someone who would favor, similar to the 23A, giving the district a single seat in the House by another amendment. But definitely not 2 senators. It is not a state and having its potential senators able to use their leverage in the Senate given its norms is exactly why a federal district governed by Congress was created in the first place.
Which is why I laugh when those on the left decry others attacking our constitutional order and norms.
The question of the federal district is a separate question than what should happen to territories like Puerto Rico. Linking them is illegitimate.
"political representation to blacks"
Blacks are the largest group still but no longer the majority.
Its a red herring though, GOP opposes statehood because it votes 90% Dem, the same reason Dems lust for it.
My point was an implicit rebuke to the Voting Rights Act mentality that any/all political line drawing attempts are about depriving minorities of the right to vote. The idea for the federal district without any congressional representation developed before blacks having the vote en masse was a thing. (Of course, some free blacks did have the franchise in some locales at the time the Constitution was ratified.) It was not invented to deny them the vote.
I'm sure Republicans would embrace DC statehood if they thought it would give them 2 more senators. And Democrats would oppose it for the same reason. But again, this intersects with arguments underpinning the Voting Rights Act. Originally, racism aside (because Republicans were similarly racist) Democrats opposed voting rights for blacks after the Civil War because they were going to vote for Republicans. It was ever thus.
There are pre-existing principled reasons to oppose making DC a state which have nothing to do with race or voting--that the federal government cannot be looking over its shoulder at a competing sovereign. The evidence that that is bad is playing out right now with the fights over Trump federalizing the National Guard. Of course a State of Columbia would eff with Trump if it had the opportunity. If voting rights is truly a problem, it can be solved by partial retrocession to Maryland, a return to the status quo ante, instead of blowing up the constitutional balance. That it isn't taken seriously is why DC stateshood shouldn't be either.
Samoan arrangement is the one that most deserves criticism
It is my understanding that the arrangement is their preference.
Yes. Which ironically is why the question of Puerto Rico's statehood has not advanced into serious discussion: because its citizens do not unambiguously desire it.
"I don't know what the demonym is"
Guamanians.
Guamsters would be good
"The Samoan arrangement..."
Which they voted for. Repeatedly. Self determination means self determination...even if you disagree with their choice. American Samoans don't want birthright citizenship. You can respect their choice...or you can demand to put your views on what they should have over their own choices.
"A primary reason that Samoans do not have birthright citizenship is that many Samoans oppose birthright citizenship, as evidenced by the unanimous resolution of the Samoan Fono in 2021 against birthright citizenship,[12] and multiple statements and actions by government officials over the decades. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Samoa
That excerpt (and the rest of the article) cites exactly zero times that "they voted for" this arrangement. It cites one time that the territorial legislature voted for it, which would not usually be described as "repeatedly." I am open to learning that there were such votes, but that didn't do it.
(In contrast, I am aware of repeated, though non-binding, referenda on the status of Puerto Rico.)
In any case, the concept of self-determination may militate against making them citizens against their wishes, but it does not say that they need to be part of the U.S. without it. If they don't want to be citizens they should be independent.
"If they don't want to be citizens they should be independent."
And what if they prefer the situation as it is? Why force your views on what they want as a people?
"And this is America, not an empire."
The US began acquiring territories in the late 1800s during the Spanish American war, and has technically been an empire ever since. The list of nations is pretty long, including Cuba, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Panama, parts of Samoa, Guam, NMI, and VI. We also played a colonial role in Japan and South Korea post-war. Then, if we also consider forms of corporate colonialism as part of our empire, we would add a number of "banana republics" and sugar-producing countries to the list.
No. You're forgetting the Louisiana Territory, the New Mexico Territory, and the Alaska Territory. And no, although the US briefly controlled Japan and South Korea, it did not do so as a colonial power. It neither attempted to settle its people there nor to exploit the resources of Japan and Korea, and in both cases US control was intended from the outset to be temporary. Colonies, territories, protectorates, and occupied areas are different, in law and in other respects. Let's not oversimplify.
Does the self-determination requirement extend to secession? If the current residents of a territory should be the ones to decide whether or not they should become independent, become a state, or remain a territory; then shouldn't the current residents of a state also have the right to vote for independence or for territorial status?
No. I think you are missing something very basic about self-determination as we are using it here.
Territories are not countries. Nor are they afforded full political representation. They are relics of colonialism. The past practice of the United States having territories "on the way to statehood" has been curiously held in abeyance ... for REASONS for these specific places, and that is anathema.
The question of whether a specific part of a specific country that has full political rights and full representation can choose to remove itself is a different more difficult question that is not answerable by any simple analysis.
"for REASONS for these specific places, and that is anathema."
And if those reasons are because that's what the residents of these territories want for themselves? You seem determined to press your views on what people in these territories should do. That's almost the same colonialist mindset you seem to abhor.
Let them decide for themselves. And if they decide the status quo is what they want, is there anything wrong with that?
For DC, everything should be returned to Maryland except for the Mall area (Lincoln Memorial to the Capital, White House, and Supreme Court), which would be the "DC."
There would be no legal residents (the President still votes in their home state), no taxes, no DC government, etc.
*shrug* I wouldn't argue with that either. The important part is that we no longer have territories.
The 23rd amendment poses an issue for that federal enclave you describe, though.
The best case scenario for DC would be retroceding the residential wards to Maryland together with repealing the 23rd Amendment. Maryland would have to consent or a Constitutional amendment would have to impose the retrocession on Maryland.
For DC, everything should be returned to Maryland
D.C. residents don't appear to want to return to Maryland, though I recall something (might be wrong) once saying Maryland was open to the idea. Popular sovereignty should be respected.
I think statehood would be acceptable, including as a balance to multiple states with small populations. It is also the easiest way constitutionally to protect local control.
There was an attempt once, supported by Orin Hatch (R), to give them a voting member of Congress. A court of appeals case once (2-1) rejected that on a constitutional basis. The argument, I think, leans against them getting one. But it's somewhat close.
Another approach, which can be part of a larger effort to address territories, is a constitutional amendment giving them semi-statehood. That is, they get local control (Congress gets to override for special cases via a supermajority vote), House representation, and the ability to vote for president.
As to the 23rd Amendment, if there is statehood, an amendment can be passed to address it. If not, the electors can be assigned by Congress as set by the national popular vote.
Another approach, which can be part of a larger effort to address territories, is a constitutional amendment giving them semi-statehood. That is, they get local control (Congress gets to override for special cases via a supermajority vote), House representation, and the ability to vote for president.
This was tried in 1978 (look up "District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment"). It received only 16 ratifications (38 needed for adoption). I'm sure such a proposed amendment would not do any better today.
As to the 23rd Amendment, if there is statehood, an amendment can be passed to address it. If not, the electors can be assigned by Congress as set by the national popular vote.
The 23rd Amendment says DC's electors are to chosen by the DC residents in a way provided by Congress. Having the national popular vote determine DC's elector would be inconsistent with the amendment.
District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment
I'm not "sure" that it will fail, but yes, the amendment route is difficult. But that amendment is not my amendment. I specifically did not say it would be "shall be treated as though it were a State."
The 23rd Amendment says DC's electors are to chosen by the DC residents in a way provided by Congress. Having the national popular vote determine DC's elector would be inconsistent with the amendment.
The amendment says that "The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint in such manner as the Congress may direct"
Congress "may direct" that the electors be determined by the national popular vote. The word "residents," fwiw, is also not in the amendment.
Your proposal is narrower in that, unlike the 1978 proposal, it doesn't include Senate representation or participation in the Article V amendment process. That would improve the odds of your proposal getting adopted. As for local control, I doubt Congress would include limited its authority over DC.
If DC's electors are chosen via the national popular vote, in what way is DC appointing its electors as required by the 23rd Amendment? Congress "may direct" how DC appoints but your proposal has the entire nation appointing DC's electors. It would be a stretch to claim compliance with the 23rd Amendment's requirement that the District of Columbia "shall appoint" its electors.
"President still votes in their home state"
Now. Because DC votes 90% one way.
But unless you repeal the 3 DC electoral votes, he and his adult family will want to vote where they live. It gives his party 3 electoral votes!
Virginia, General; don't forget Virginia.
DC land was retroceded back to Virginia in Sept. 1846 and VA voted to formally accept the retrocession legislation on March 13, 1847.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_retrocession
That's why DC doesn't look like a baseball diamond anymore and has that big chunk missing in the southwest corner.
All DC land now is east of the Potomac River on the Maryland side.
Technical update...
The DC border goes across the Potomac right up to the Virginia shore line so some of the islands in the Potomac also belong to DC.
There is nothing moral cutting Puerto Rico free. Given the levels of corruption, at best it will be like other such new world countries, a nominal democracy dogged way down. At worst, it will collapse to dictatorship.
I'd rather invite countries to join the US, to clean them up and bring them into greater productivity.
The right and moral thing to do for PR is for PR to decide its own destiny. "Forcing" statehood on it, when its own residents have not conclusively said they want statehood just forces your ideals on others. Self Determination is the moral choice.
A federal district of limited size for the entire federal government is an entirely appropriate concept. This was a concept well understood by the founders. Otherwise it gives a single state too much effective power over the United States Federal Government.
DC is a limited size. No one* is forced to live there. (*aside from the President and VP). Putting control of the local police and national guard in the hands of a state that doesn't need to answer to the federal government is asking for issues. We've seen this in Portland and Chicago to a limited extent, where local government has ordered their police units not to respond to federal agents in distress. Imagine the same in DC. A mob approaches the Capitol. And the "governor" of DC ordered the DC police not to interfere.
No. A limited federal district at the seat of government is reasonable, for the safety of the government as a whole.
The biggest complication to DC statehood is the 23rd Amendment. If that was not repealed, you're left with three electoral voters without a vote to elect them. My proposal would be to award those three electors to the national popular vote. It won't be enough in a truly lopsided election, but could be enough when the electoral vote is close but the other party won the popular vote.
For American Samoa, which is probably the oddest one out, I think we need to reevaluate how we determine tribes. They are exempt from the US Constitution entirely, as well as things like minimum wage. To me, the most logical thing to do would be to incorporate the island as part of the state of Hawaii, but divide the island into Federal land and tribal land.
The United States has acquired territories by purchasing them from other nations, e.g., the US Virgin Islands. Could it also sell territories to another nation; and would it be necessary to secure the approval of a territory's inhabitants before doing so? If, for instance, a Republican President and Congress wanted to permanently eliminate the threat of Puerto Rico's admission as a heavily Democratic state, could they sell it to, say, Haiti for a dollar?
...the history of the United States buying and selling people is not a glorious one.
Let's keep that in the past.
Buying and selling territory is not the same thing as buying and selling people as chattels. Let's not conflate territorial changes and population movements with slavery.
"permanently eliminate the threat of Puerto Rico's admission as a heavily Democratic state"
Also? I hate hate hate this argument for two reasons.
First, every friggin' thing is always viewed first through a narrow partisan lens. Just try and start with, "What should we do," before applying that!
Look, I don't care how they would vote now. If, in order to do the right thing, we need to divide Texas up (or Wyoming) to give some extra "oomph" to the GOP, so be it. That's a solvable problem. Right?
But here's the second problem. It's so short-sighted. California was GOP-leaning through 1988 (remember Reagan?). Texas used to be a Democratic stronghold (as did most of the south ... ahem). Voting patterns shift and change over time and will continue to shift.
When Hawaii and Alaska were admitted to the United States, Hawaii was considered GOP-leaning, and Alaska was the Democratic-leaning state. In fact, that was the thought process going into the admission.
That changed pretty quickly, didn't it?
$5 million for every Greenlander.
lets trade Puerto Rico to Denmark, for Greenland. Straight up.
If, for instance, a Republican President and Congress wanted to permanently eliminate the threat of Puerto Rico's admission as a heavily Democratic state, could they sell it to, say, Haiti for a dollar?
This thought immediately occurred to me, too.
We have just folded space from CNN.
It is naive not to address partisan issues, especially since they influenced the admission of multiple Western states.
On that front, the partisan nature of Puerto Rico is unclear, as seen by recent non-voting members being both Democrats and Republicans.
I start with the premise of looking at an issue by simply saying "What should be done, if anything?"
That's not partisan. Because when people talk about partisan issues (especially something like this) it has nothing to do with anything substantive or any merits other than a short-term look at which team might have a brief advantage.
Once I have decided on the merits of the issue, the implementation of it, unfortunately, becomes a partisan issue because you have to convince enough people to pass it.
The problem we have here is that people reverse these two steps. I try not to do that.
That's fine.
The original comment started with general principles & then provided a "for instance" (perhaps to provide a blatant case to push the debate) involving a partisan decision.
It's helpful to discuss issues on a "what should be done" level. The implementation (including passage in the legislature) will have partisan implications. It's part of our system. Independent actors don't vote on things. They vote in partisan coalitions.
“But there is little said about what the United States receives from this arrangement.”
A beautiful island with a wonderful people and culture? That seems pretty good to me.
Agreed, but I would add ... the food. Really good food.
Food, dancing, music. Okay, I guess that's all "the culture."
Lot of great actresses and actors too. I’m admittedly not familiar with Puerto Rican literature specifically, but Latin America has always produced some great literature generally so, I’m sure there are some literary gems too!
Direct flights to PR from MSN in the middle of the Wisconsin winter are quite nice. No passport required!
There are already direct flights from America to PR to a great extent based on market forces. While there is no passport required you do need a Real ID, not just enter PR but to get on an aeroplane as well.
Constitutionally, Congress can dispose of US territory any way it wants. But having taken on the responsibilities of asserting sovereignty over a territory, it would be horrible this simply walk away from it with no plan in place for its future.
That said, there are enough supporters of independence in Puerto Rico that Congress could decide to authorize the President to negotiate a succession plan and recognize them as a government so that an orderly transition could be arranged. It woud not require a popular referendum.
Gotta love the demands of the perpetual parasites. No, they offer nothing of value so what is what they should get in return.
“Nothing of value”
You could say the same about North Dakota.
...and be wrong.
Exactly. It’s equally as stupid as what he said.
Like those income taxes they pay?
I didn’t realize benefits were strictly confined to money going to the federal government.
I guess by that metric that are a lot of red states we should jettison as well.
Have to love the way people think. "Have to get rid of those useless parasites. No, I meant those people. Not, um, the Real 'Murikans. You know what I mean ...."
Yes. We know exactly what you mean.
The United States set up the arrangement Puerto Rico has. How in the world can people who were merely born into an arrangement we created,because we preferred it that way, be considered parasites on us? Who again is responsible for the arrangement?
This would be the same logic used to defend a 4th generation welfare queen who's never done a day of work and just popped out more kids to keep the checks rolling. Yes, they are parasites.
One thing I appreciate about this website is that when I can identify a parasite that is commenting, I can jettison them from my view.
Unfortunately you can’t jettison them from Congressional staffs quite so easily.
....lol. I mean, you can!
But for REASONS, some people choose not to. Just, um, boys being boys (with "boys" being defined as "anyone that I want to defend, including grown-ass men.").
"But having taken on the responsibilities of asserting sovereignty over a territory, it would be horrible this simply walk away from it with no plan in place for its future."
Think Great Britain and the middle east?
Puerto Rico offers the greater country no benefits. Cut sling load.
There are five US military bases in Puerto Rico, including Army and Air Force Bases and a U.S. Coast Guard Station (no Marine Corps or Navy).
All bases there serve as important rallying and staging points for the United States and its allies.
Puerto Rico has been a strategic military and commerce point since the U.S. was founded.
https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/us-military-bases-in-puerto-rico/
PR has also been trying to restrict what those bases can do. Not that they have been very successful. Thing is PR is basically 30/30/30 with those groups wanting to keep things the same/statehood/independence so not a lot really gets done except fighting among themselves.
The only US Air Force base in Puerto Rico is an air guard facility cojoined with the airport in San Juan.
The big base, Ramey, was closed in 1973 and is now a civilian airport.
There is no major US Naval base in Puerto Rico, either - Roosevelt Roads closed in 2004.
There is a US Army installation, Ft. Buchanan, near San Jose. There is also Camp Santiago a training facility.
In addition to the Air Guard facility colocated with the Airport in San Juan, there is a US Coast Guard base in San Juan and a Coast Guard Air Station in Aguadilla.
Nothing too significant.
While we're discussing what is to be done with Puerto Rico: repeal the Jones Act!
Yes in general, and yes especially for Puerto Rico.
"repeal the Jones Act!"
Expand it! All shipping to and from the US must be in US built ships.
You'd need a gradual phase in so the shipyards can be started and the ships built but it would be a huge benefit.
Oh sure, industrial policy and central planning work so well.
You don’t actually have any real belief structure other than contrarianism huh?
Its a good idea. People want to rebuild US shipbuilding. This will do it.
Jones Act repeal is just a libertarian shibboleth.
Will somebody send Bob a link to info on comparative advantage?!?
You didn’t say flagged, but it’s in the act.
Logistically, would take decades before enough American bottomed ships were available to handle the volume, and you would be raising prices for the entire population in exchange for a small number of high paying jobs.
Well, flagged is dumb, I'd change that. I don't care where a ship is registered.
We need good domestic shipbuilding capacity for national security reasons.
And other countries should do the same. It would create a new industry building the mid-oceanic platforms where cargo would have to be transferred between US and non-US flagged ships. Or, and this is just a theoretical possibility, that all goods into or out of the US would go overland through ports in Canada or Mexico.
"And other countries should do the same. "
They are not the richest country. Sure, China can try it. Some others.
I didn't say " flagged" though.
Right, you said US-built. My mistake.
Other countries don't need to reciprocate. This site tells about a distiller in Hawaii who ships his product to Australia via San Francisco, and says the SF->Sydney leg cost is 1/3 that of the Hon->SF cost, despite being 3 times the distance. With differentials like that your plan would shift shipping out of US ports no matter what other countries do.
"shift shipping out of US ports"
An exporter still has to get the product to the US somehow.
Its the shipbuilding here that is important.
By ship to Montreal or Ensenada then by rail to the US.
Just repeal the federal income tax exemption. They will be begging for independence.
Or statehood. They’d do statehood before independence.
You have to get a trifecta first.
Sure. But they won’t be “begging for independence.”
Also Republican opposition is dumb. The current governor is a Republican!
No statehood but heavier tax burden. Sounds ideal.
They’ll be begging for statehood. Not independence. And they’d probably hold out for a democratic trifecta. And there will be one eventually. The nice thing about fascist movements is that they don’t have good succession plans and the potential heirs often are huge dorks who have negative charisma. So the GOP will fail in its attempts to turn the United States into a one party right-wing state based on personalist rule.
"And there will be one eventually."
Sure, but how long can they hold out.
"So the GOP will fail in its attempts to turn the United States into a one party right-wing state based on personalist rule."
Well, that escalated quickly!
Sure, but how long can they hold out.
Probably a pretty long time! Considering how often people move between the island and the mainland and voluntarily subject themselves to federal taxation!
Your comment appeared to assume that the democrats would not ever have a trifecta again. The current GOP project is to ensure this. I was explaining that it will ultimately fail in the long run.
I believe Congress has the raw constitutional authority to grant Puerto Rico independence. It would be unjust to do so without the consent of the residents.
Puerto Rico receives all of the benefits of being part of the United States, without the burdens of most taxes.
Other than voting membership in Congress, reflecting their population, and the right to vote for president. The latter is ridiculous. The same applies to other territorial residents. In this day and age, such a lack of voting rights is patently unjust.
(The Insular Cases provide other complications for federal territories. The cases are outdated & should be overturned. The exact nature of such an opinion is up for debate.)
We should pass a constitutional amendment to address the situation of voting rights. It can also provide flexibility to address other matters of self-government for territories.
The territories other than Puerto Rico have populations too small for typical statehood. They should have a constitutional (not just a "by grace of Congress") right to self-government.
Each territory may have its own specific needs, thus emphasizing the value of flexibility. There are many small island nations, so independence (if the people wish) is not out of the question.
As long as they are part of the United States, their rights should be protected, more so than the current colonial status provides.
There are two votes for that!
So, what's Puerto Rico good for for the US?
It’s a Beautiful island with a beautiful culture and great people that are an integral part of what makes this country unique and awesome?
Look up "integral" in the dictionary and then let me know if you stand by your choice of that word.
Absolutely. America would be less awesome and less unique if Puerto Rican culture weren’t a part of it.
We can (and do) have PR culture without having PR itself...
The island would be harder to get to which would make cultural and business connections more difficult.
And those other islands that have a culture in the US...? The Dominican Republic, Jamaica....
What does this train of logic say we should do there?
A musical number in West Side Story?
One of which begins "I want to be in America....."
Written by a white guy.
Puerto Ricans are white, dumbass.
Anecdotal, of course, but I know two Puerto Ricans that would disagree with you…
Oh. Interesting. So why don’t you want them to be part of the US?
S'OK. They were both quite liberal so it doesn't really count
Other than the people and cultural benefits, it provides a base of operations in the Caribbean.
Are you a Trumpist who will be triggered by Bad Bunny performing at the Super Bowl? Try this one simple trick!
....good one. No notes.
ETA- okay, one note. The only way Blackman could've made this an even more "JB" post is if he had explicitly said, "How Trump Could Ensure that Bad Bunny Will Not Perform at the Super Bowl by Getting Rid of Puerto Rico! Click here to find out 13 Surprising Maybe Constitutional Law-Like Things You Didn't Know ... You Won't Believe Number 7!"
Can’t wait for his post explaining how and why Trump could deport Mamdani on Nov 5th…
I don't think he can deport Mamdani, but Mamdani *might* face a bit of legal trouble.
Mamdani faces criminal referrals over alleged foreign donations to NYC mayoral campaign
With the usual pretense that converting illegal donations into illegal loans cures the problem...
He will not. First, I beg people to stop pretending that the phrase "criminal referral" has any legal meaning. It does not.
Second, the actual story reveals that the people doing the referring did pretty much the half-assed job you'd expect: they just looked for foreign addresses, even though it's perfectly legal for people with foreign addresses to donate to campaigns.
Third, it is of course not illegal to receive a donation from an ineligible person. It is only illegal to do so knowing that the donor is ineligible. Unless the crack sleuths of the Coolidge Reagan Foundation are in possession of an email in which Mamdani wrote to his campaign treasurer, "Yeah, I know they're not legal, but take their money anyway," all they have is that some people who sent in money weren't allowed to. This is normal and not criminal on the part of a political campaign.
"Third, it is of course not illegal to receive a donation from an ineligible person. It is only illegal to do so knowing that the donor is ineligible."
I am reminded of a similar scandal during the Obama administration, when Obama's campaign ended up accepting a lot of foreign donations because they'd shut off the default credit card processing features that would have detected that they were originating overseas.
I just got back from a trip on an airliner. If I'd walked up to the baggage carousel with my eyes shut and grabbed at random as many bags as I'd checked, would that immunize me for the resulting baggage theft because my eyes being deliberately shut had assured I wouldn't know the bags I'd grabbed weren't mine?
I don't think intent works that way. But we'll see.
“These questions have been bubbling in my head for some time.”
When and why did dumping Puerto Rico start to bubble in his head?
I am guessing when he was starting a class by saying, "And can you believe Bad Bunny will be performing at the Super Bowl?!? Why can't they get someone that people have heard of?"
...and the entire class started laughing at him.
Just, um, guessing.
It may be statutory, but the residents of PR DO have US citizenship, which can't be revoked, and are legally entitled to travel to the US mainland.
So, are you prepared for when we grant PR unilateral independence, and half or more of the population up and moves to the US mainland?
They're US citizens, so what's the problem?
In fairness to Brett, I think he identified a problem with JB's musings. If you assume ... for just a second ... that JB might have some ... concept ... about why Puerto Rico should just be cast off ... some ... I dunno .... reason for this....
And that reason might be, perhaps, shared by some of the people in this thread who have made comments as well....
Then they might want to briefly think about that issue. If the United States were to unilaterally make Puerto Rico independent, doesn't it follow that there might be some significant number of people there who would simply exercise their rights as United States Citizens and move to the mainland? Which might not be result that these people are truly hoping for.*
(FWIW, currently it is estimated that 2/3 of all Puerto Ricans already reside on the mainland.)
*Of course, it is a given that there are many of them that were not even fully aware that Puerto Rico was part of the US, and still struggle to realize that New Mexico is a state, so there's that.
Brett's wife is a naturalized US citizen.
So he got his and fuck everyone else, amiright!
I'm not sure you actually understood my point, which is that Puerto Ricans would remain US citizens even if PR itself were granted independence, so what is even the point of this proposal?
OK, assuming it's legal you can get rid of the land, but you keep the people. Is that a win from the perspective of the people advocating this?
"which is that Puerto Ricans would remain US citizens even if PR itself were granted independence, so what is even the point of this proposal?"
Yes and no. Yes, all current PRs would remain US Citizenship. No, because future PRs born on the island may not be US Citizens.
In the hypothetical situation where PR obtained independence, a child born on the island to PR individuals requires that one of the parents had resided in the US. Now, since PR "was" part of the US, the parents may say they resided in the US, even if they never left the island. (That of course might be changed by a law). However, for the next generation after that, a PR resident who was born after independence, who never resided in in the US, their children may not have US citizenship.
So...2, maybe 3 generations.
Under current US law, the child of American citizens, wherever born, is an American citizen.
So to get the problem you're suggesting, you'd have to alter citizenship law, not just 'give' PR it's independence.
This! Yes, I understood what you were getting at.
The current citizenship/naturalization law has some registration and residency requirements (for both parents and child I believe), varying depending on whether one or both parents is a citizen. So many future births would not qualify, gradually. You probably can't cut off entirely those of Puerto Rican descent by changing the law at a time of granting independence, as that would likely fail equal protection and rely on Insular Case reasoning, which I think would not survive a new court challenge.
Having an island full of expat American citizens who are now also their own sovereign nation seems a recipe for future political and foreign relations headaches. Talk about dual loyalty!
They could change citizenship law so that anyone born in Puerto Rico, even to U.S. citizens, after the date of independence is not a U.S. citizen at birth. But such a law would likely lead to a lot of the thing-that-doesn't-really-exist-now: birth tourism. Current U.S. policy is to try to screen out pregnant foreigners who we think are coming here for the purpose of giving birth, but that wouldn't apply to Puerto Ricans, since they're actually U.S. citizens and are free to travel here at will w/o a visa. And if they came here and gave birth, their kids would be citizens pursuant to the 14A. So it would be multiple generations where the island would be full of dual citizens before that was diluted away.
The thing that doesn't exist despite there being travel agencies that sell it, you mean?
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"Having an island full of expat American..."
Not as big a problem as you might think. This happened before with the Philippines. They were US nationals between ~1900 and their independence after WWII. And immigration law was designed that dealt with the situation there, as well. Nationals are not citizens, but some of the same issues do come up.
"Under current US law, the child of American citizens, wherever born, is an American citizen."
Not quite. Here's the actual law
A child will obtain citizenship if:
1. At least one parent resides in the United States or its territories before the child’s birth
2. At least one parent has a genetic or gestational connection to the child
3. Both parents in the marriage show a parental relationship to the child
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html
And, in the case we're discussing, they're US citizens who resided in the territory of Puerto Rico.
But, yes, in the situation we're discussing, if the post independence citizen child of Puerto Rican American citizens never visited the US or one of its territories, they could not pass that citizenship on to THEIR children.
Indeed. So, the 3rd generation wouldn't get citizenship. (1st generation, current citizens, 2nd generation children of the 1st).
Now, here's where it really gets interesting. Assume Congress granted independence to PR. They can play with immigration law, and say that Puerto Rico is not part of the United States. And just having resided in PR, even when it was part of the US, does not count for residency and passing on citizenship.
Sure, there are lots of things they could do by statute. The only thing I'm denying they could do by statute is remove the citizenship of existing PR residents.
Exactly my point. Do the people talking about doing this even think it through? It's absolutely obvious that if you force independence on a territory full of US citizens, you'll lose any claim on the land, but the citizens will remain citizens, and part of citizenship is freedom of travel.
You can kick the landmass out of the US, but you're stuck with the people.
Even if you don't care one bit about the rights of Puerto Ricans, it's a stupid, losing proposition.
"currently it is estimated that 2/3 of all Puerto Ricans already reside on the mainland."
This strikes me as an odd thing to say. I'm originally from Michigan, I live in South Carolina. I wouldn't call myself a Michigander. I'm a South Carolinian.
Anybody from Puerto Rico who's been living on the mainland long enough to establish residency there is no longer legally a Puerto Rican.
What? Do you prefer I use a phrase like, "American Citizens that were granted statutory citizenship by virtue of their birth in Puerto Rico?"
I always wonder what weird thoughts you have that motivate your desire for precision in something like this, and yet you have no desire for precision or factual accuracy in other matters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Point is, from my perspective being a Puerto Rican is like being a Michigander; We're all just Americans.
It's true that the territories are horribly poor relative to the poorest of the states. That's a national embarrassment we should find some way to fix, not an excuse to jettison them. (Unless they want to be jettisoned, which they don't.)
I mean, kinda. I know some people that are FIERCELY proud of their state citizenship.
Not as much as it was ... back in the day. But still, you will find those who will proudly identify as Texan, or as a Mainer, or whatever ... no matter what state they currently reside in.
Sure. I am originally from NYC, and in my experience no-one works harder than Puerto Ricans. Hard workers welcome.
I know one Puerto Rican, and same observation here.
"which can't be revoked"
Why not?
Probably some significant constitutional barriers to that under the due process clause.
Hate to tell you this Brett, but...
There are 5.8 million Puerto Ricans in the mainland US. There are only 3.2 million people on Puerto Rico itself.
More than 1/2 of the PR population is already on the mainland US.
And I suspect those on the mainland will have citizenship in an independent Puerto Rico, according to the newly independent Puerto Rico. Just like Jews around the world can claim Israeli citizenship.
People will obviously draw differing conclusions about this. Doesn't make it less true.
For the record, it's not that simple. It's effectively true that any Jew is eligible for Israeli citizenship. But in order to get it Jews have to actually make aliyah (move to Israel); they can't just — as some countries, like Ireland (if I understand Irish laws correctly) allow — apply to become a citizen while living elsewhere. (Of course, once one does become an Israeli citizen, one can move away and remain one.)
Sure, why not? 90% will move to New York City with their families.
More cannon fodder for Madmani.
I dated a girl from PR at the time there was a referendum on statehood/independence/commonwealth. The most uncomfortable I ever saw her was when I asked her feelings on the matter. While she was in the independence camp her sister (who I also later dated and who now lives in Miami and works as a professional) was all for statehood. Their parents were in the commonwealth camp.
Bottom line is PR is 30%/30%/30% on what to do. As for military bases there the independence camp has long been advocating for there removal and has resulted in halting bombing at the Vieques Bombing Range.
It's a complicated issue.
Economically, independence makes little sense for PR. Per capita GDP is among the highest in the Caribbean for the island, only really significantly behind the US Virgin Islands (and Cayman Islands). Comparable economies (Dominican Republic, Costa Rica) make 1/2 of what PR does. And it's largely due to being part of the US.
Culturally though, PR does hold itself out from being separate from the US. They have their own Olympic team. Spanish, not English, is the primary language for the schools, courts, and more. Full US Statehood could potentially eliminate many of the items that make PR culturally different.
Commonwealth is not a political status or condition. The word “Commonwealth” is part of the official name in English for Puerto Rico. “Commonwealth” is also part of the official names of Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. It is also part of the official name of the Northern Mariana Islands, also a U.S. territory. Unlike Puerto Rico, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands is outside the customs territory of the United States and has its own customs jurisdiction. Incidentally, the territory of U.S. Virgin Islands, that does not have “Commonwealth “ in its name, is also outside the U.S. customs territory. So no, there is no real “commonwealth status” like the politicians who favor the status quo for the territory of Puerto Rico imply.