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Seventh Circuit Rules Against Trump's Use of National Guard in Chicago
The Court of Appeals unanimously refused to stay a trial court ruling against Trump, signaling the judges believe his use of the Guard is illegal.

Yesterday, the US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit refused to stay a district court ruling barring President Trump from using the National Guard in Illinois, ostensibly to counter violent protests against ICE deportation efforts. The court ruled that Trump was unlikely to prevail in this litigation, because the kind of emergency situations that legally permit federalization of the National Guard don't exist. Notably, the three judges were unanimous, and they include a George W. Bush appointee (Judge Ilana Diamond Rovner), an Obama appointee (Judge Hamilton), and a Trump appointee (Judge St. Eve). Thus, the ruling can't easily be depicted as a purely left-wing one.
This decision follows similar rulings by Illinois District Judge April Perry (which this decision refused to stay), Oregon District Judge Karin Immergut (a conservative Trump appointee), and California District Judge Charles Breyer (brother of former Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer). The three district court rulings lay out the issues in greater detail than the relatively brief Seventh Circuit decision, and all three are impressive and compelling, in my view.
Judge Breyer's decision was stayed by the Ninth Circuit appellate court, primarily on the grounds that he did not give enough deference to the president. I criticized that decision here. Significantly, the three more recent rulings against Trump on this issue have held there is no legal justification for his actions even under the Ninth Circuit's highly deferential approach. In a recent Dispatch article, I explain in detail why courts should not defer to executive determinations of whether an exigency justifying the use of extraordinary emergency powers exists. Otherwise, the executive could invoke such sweeping and dangerous powers anytime he wants, seriously threatening civil liberties and the structure of constitutional government. I also explain there why the executive's supposedly superior expertise is not a good reason for deference in such cases. A genuine massive emergency is readily apparent, and does not generally require specialized expertise to detect.
The statute Trump relied on, 10 U.S.C. Section 12406, can only be used to federalize state National Guard forces and use them for law enforcement in one of the following situations:
1) the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation;
(2) there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or
(3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States
The Seventh Circuit explained why there is no "rebellion" going on in Illinois:
[W]e emphasize that the critical analysis of a "rebellion" centers on the nature of the resistance to governmental authority. Political opposition is not rebellion. A protest does not become a rebellion merely because the protestors advocate for myriad legal or
policy changes, are well organized, call for significant changes to the structure of the U.S. government, use civil disobedience as a form of protest, or exercise their Second Amendment right to carry firearms as the law currently allows. Nor does a protest become a rebellion merely because of sporadic and isolated incidents of unlawful activity or even violence committed by rogue participants in the protest. Such conduct exceeds the scope of the First Amendment, of course, and law enforcement has apprehended the perpetrators accordingly. But because rebellions at least use deliberate, organized violence to resist governmental authority, the problematic incidents in this record clearly fall within the considerable daylight between protected speech and rebellion.Applying our tentative understanding of "rebellion" to the district court's factual findings, and even after affording great deference to the President's evaluation of the circumstances, we see insufficient evidence of a rebellion or danger of rebellion in Illinois. The spirited, sustained, and occasionally violent actions of demonstrators in protest of the federal government's immigration policies and actions, without more, does not give rise to a danger of rebellion against the government's authority. The administration thus has not demonstrated that it is likely to succeed on this issue.
The court also explained why there is no inability to execute the laws with regular forces:
We turn next to the meaning of § 12406(3)—"unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States." The administration exhorts us to accept the Ninth Circuit's reading of this subsection. In Newsom, the Ninth Circuit interpreted "unable" to mean that the federal government was "significantly impeded," and "regular forces" to mean "federal officers." 141 F.4th at 1052. The district court in this case, by contrast, concluded that the definition of "unable" is "not having sufficient power or ability; being incapable." And it determined that "regular forces" means the soldiers and officers serving in the regular armed forces.
We need not fully resolve these thorny and complex issues of statutory interpretation now, because we conclude that the administration has not met its burden under either standard. Even applying great deference to the administration's view of the facts, under the facts as found by the district court, there is insufficient evidence that protest activity in Illinois has significantly impeded the ability of federal officers to execute federal immigration laws. Federal facilities, including the processing facility in Broadview, have remained open despite regular demonstrations against the administration's immigration policies. And though federal officers have encountered sporadic disruptions, they have been quickly contained by local, state, and federal authorities. At the same time, immigration arrests and deportations have proceeded apace in Illinois over the past year, and the administration has been proclaiming the success of its current efforts to enforce immigration laws in the Chicago area. The administration accordingly is also unlikely to succeed on this argument.
Understood in context, I think inability to execute the laws with "regular forces" requires a massive breakdown of civil order, not simply a failure to apprehend all violators of federal law, or a situation where enforcement is "significantly impeded." The latter circumstances exists in almost every community in the nation, at virtually all times. Almost every community has large numbers of people who get away with violating one federal law or another, and whom law enforcement is unable to detect and prosecute.
For example, over 50% of adult Americans admit to having used marijuana at some point in their lives, and the true rate of usage is likely even higher; marijuana possession is a federal crime. Large percentages have also violated other federal laws and regulations without getting caught. As Judge Perry points out in the district court ruling in the Illinois case, "Defense counsel confirmed during oral argument that [the administration's position] would allow the federalization of the National Guard if there was any repeated or ongoing violation of federal law in a community." That state of affairs exists virtually everywhere at virtually all times.
There are various technical legal issues in these cases, and it is important that courts address them correctly. But it is even more important to recognize the big-picture issue well described in the three district court rulings: If the Trump Administration prevails, the president could federalize the National Guard against the will of state governments, and use it against Americans pretty much whenever he wants. Such domestic use of the military was, as Judge Perry recounts, one of the British abuses that led to the American Revolution, and we should not allow the President to act like King George III and Lord North. Courts can help ensure that domestic use of the military remains limited to extraordinary emergency circumstances, not become a normal practice that the president can invoke whenever he wants.
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As that great DemoKKKrat Richard "Hizonner" Daley famously said,
"The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder,"
Frank
Bad facts create bad law. In this case, it will go to the SCOTUS which will probably decide in Trump's favor. We really seem to have a revolt by the judiciary.
Latest News: President Trump has officially appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn an activist judge’s block on him deploying National Guard to Chicago
Well, we will see either jubilation from Josh Blackman or angry calls for John Roberts to resign. (Logically, Blackman should call for Somin to resign, but he doesn't.)
I take it when you use the word “activist” here you mean “not a doormat.” Or perhaps “possessing a pulse.”
Illllllllya gets it wrong again and so does the court.
"(3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States"
That is true. Doesn't matter what some judges think, that is clearly true. And it's even more true now when Chicago just announced banning ICE from enforcing the laws.
So this will go to SCOTUS and get overturned, and Illllllya will look stupid for trying to protect criminals and being wrong, yet again.
"(3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States"
Even Wikipedia admits it can be used - - - -
101st Airborne escort
Woodrow Wilson Mann, the mayor of Little Rock, asked President Eisenhower to send federal troops to enforce integration and protect the nine students. On September 24, Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807 to enable troops to perform domestic law enforcement. The president ordered the 101st Airborne Division of the United States Army to Little Rock—initially without its black soldiers at the request of the Department of Justice—and federalized the entire 10,000-member Arkansas National Guard, taking it out of Faubus's control.[14] Two segregationists were injured in clashes with federal troops on September 25; one who was struck in the face with a buttstock after trying to grab a soldier's rifle, and a second who received a minor bayonet wound to the arm.[15]
The full story, for the young:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine#101st_Airborne_escort
that was under the Insurrection Act, not §12406. the Insurrection Act actually has a lower bar to meet. so Trump may be able to use that, but not this.
So soldiers actually attacked American citizens while on duty.
Yes, the President can send in federal troops against a state governor’s will to enforce the 14th Amendment when a state is violating citizens’ civil rights. That’s what President Eisenhower did in Little Rock, when Arkansas resisted court-mandate integration. Can you explain how that’s relevant here? How is the State of Illinois violating citizens’ civil rights?
Is that how court cases work? "Don't worry about the evidence; the thing I'm lying about is clearly true."
I'll take "Other things that Patrick Henry is lying about" for $1,000, Alex.
I’ll take “comments from world class assholes” for $1,000 Alex. Bonus “what world class assholes are also bat shit crazy?”
Riva?
> Is that how court cases work? "Don't worry about the evidence; the thing I'm lying about is clearly true."
Yes court cases usually involve judges lying about the evidence when it shows something they don't like. And note it's THEM lying, not me.
> I'll take "Other things that Patrick Henry is lying about" for $1,000, Alex.
Then you'd lose. They literally did that. Sorry try to keep up!
under your reading of (3), could the President deploy the National Guard in every State to arrest teenagers who smoke joints, since over half of Americans have smoked pot, indicating that the Controlled Substances Act cannot be enforced with the "regular forces?"
The remedy for that would be the impeachment and removal from office of the deranged executive. Not the judiciary usurping executive prerogatives and playacting as the president.
Deploying troops is not an executive prerogatives. Never has been.
Get back to me after you actually take a look at the Constitution. Or a grade school history book. Or even a comic book about Lincoln.
"Get back to me after you actually take a look at the Constitution. Or a grade school history book. Or even a comic book about Lincoln."
Taking a look at the Constitution is an excellent idea. Especially the relevant provisions of Article I, § 8, which authorize Congress:
The necessary and proper clause applies to the President's role as Commander-in-chief, such that his exercise of that authority is subject to limits imposed by the Congress, which would include the conditions imposed by 10 U.S.C. § 12406.
Congress of course had role in the passage of 10 U.S.C. § 12406, although it would be grossly inaccurate to claim as a general rule that the necessary and proper clause allows Congress to redefine the president's role as Commander in Chief. There are distinct spheres of authority among the branches, notwithstanding the delusions of some here, and such a blanket assertion would offend separation of powers.
But back to the statute, the problem here is that we've run head on into an area of authority for which the judiciary has no competence or role. That would be the determination of when circumstances require the federalization of the national guard.
Riva, you seem to get stupider by the day. As the Seventh Circuit appropriately opined here, determination of:
Disputes like this are the reason we build courthouses, Riva. As SCOTUS has cogently opined:
Laird v. Tatum, 408 U.S. 1, 15–16 (1972). The Seventh Circuit's discussion of what is -- and more importantly, what is not -- a "rebellion" for purposes of § 12406 is germane here:
Right. MAGA chooses to pretend not to understand this, because it interferes with their worship of their Dear Leader. If use of the military is authorized by law, then the president as CinC decides how to do that — which units to deploy, how many, where they should be positioned, etc. But whether use of the military is authorized by law is a legal question, not a military one, and thus reserved for the judiciary.
Thanks for the input asshole but I think we have more than enough asinine comments already. Check back tomorrow.
Bot completely broken down; needs immediate repair.
Well, that's original asshole.
Laird v. Tatum did not hold that it was within the province of the judiciary to determine when circumstances required the use of the military, NG you imbecile. It concerned a claim that rights were being invaded by the Department of the Army's alleged unlawful surveillance. I suppose the government, at any level can, in the course of its otherwise lawful conduct, invade some rights. But that isn't the issue here buffoon.
May I suggest, before another embarrassing post, that you ask someone with some knowledge of how to read caselaw to review your comments.
And, as aside, the inapposite issue in Laird v. Tatum was held to be a non justiciable controversy. You’d have been better off having some AI model hallucinate a case for you NG. But even then, you’d probably misinterpret it. Of course, apparently so would the 7th circuit.
Yes it is
Not every state, just far-left democrat-led states.
Patriotic Americans that voted for Trump don't deserved to be hassled like that, even if some of them get baked.
It will be done like that famous quote from some guy: ‘for my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law’.
For pit the States are not actively interfering and making impossible the execution of the law. They're not helping ICE but that is fine, here they are actively increasing the risk to federal agents through their actions or rather their refusal to do their job.
No it couldn't, because they can enforce that with the regular forces. There are not police and state and local governments interfering with that, right? That's the difference.
I take it by “true” you mean “bullshit.”
No I mean true. Because that's clearly the case. Sorry that bothers you!
What the political predilections of the judges are notwithstanding who nominated them is open to debate. But whatever their politics, the president who nominated them did not, and could not, delegate executive power to them. As judges, they are unqualified to determine when circumstances require the federalization of the national guard. That’s a determination for the president under the law and constitution.
As judges, they are unqualified to determine when circumstances require the federalization of the national guard. That’s a determination for the president under the law and constitution.
Clearly not true, for the reasons given above.
People who think like Riva would be happier jn Russia, China, or North Korea (if they’re not already trolling from there)
Riva's just a bot, programmed to spout talking points, but there are a lot of MAGAs online who bizarrely take the same position that it's somehow impossible for judges to review evidence and make factual findings based on that evidence, even though that's literally the job of a judge.
Exactly the type of cogent and compelling response one would expect from a world class asshole. Not difficult to predict since it’s essentially the same thing the asshole always parrots. Not sure why he continues. He’s already proven he’s a world class asshole beyond all reasonable doubt several times over. I guess that’s just the nature of world class assholes.
Invective is no substitute for reasoned argument, Riva.
Maybe you should direct that comment to asshole? Asshole long ago set the terms for exchanges here. Of course, the majority of POS trolls here have no interest in a reasonable argument (see below). So they get the comments they merit. This is what asshole merits.
And you might think about looking in the mirror yourself.
Of course, it should be noted that this is exactly what asshole and his parrot assholes want. The real purpose behind their bullshit is to distract from viewpoints they would prefer not be expressed. They'd censor/cancel views if they could, but since they're just POS trolls, they troll. In some sense, they actually want the response I give them.
So maybe, upon reconsideration, you're right at some level. But I really dislike asshole.
Once again our badly programmed bot has nothing to say.
Are you a parrot troll coming to asshole's rescue? That's cute. Or maybe just another alias? They're can't be that many assholes all congregated in one comment section, can there?
But certainly remains capable of saying more and more and more of it...
“ People who think like Riva would be happier jn Russia, China, or North Korea (if they’re not already trolling from there)”
I’va always assumed that Riva’s paychecks came from a group with the last name “Bear” in the CIA files. He’s an agitator, and not even a good one. Even Jesse makes smarter point than him, and Jesse would lose a battle of wits with a banana slug.
That's weird. I started to suspect many trolls here were paid to embarrass themselves. Similar to the left rent-a-mobs so prevalent these days.
Nope. Clearly not. Because that’s not something judges are qualified to determine. Just curious, are you the smart troll? Relatively speaking of course.
They are as qualified as game show hosts are.
How to explain this in terms a stupid asshole would understand? ...Ok, think of it this way, imagine that an asshole such as yourself becomes president. Notwithstanding his past as an asshole, he would not lack all the powers and responsibilities that inhere in that office. Nor would his past preeminent asshole status entitle a judge or judges to usurp presidential prerogatives.
You are confused about the difference between legal authority and qualifications.
Whatever you say asshole. But, as someone who wouldn't understand a separation of powers argument if it swam up and bit him on the ass; has never actually understood (or more likely never read) Marbury v Madison; and probably thinks the Federalist Papers was a 70's comedy drama featuring John Housemen, your opinion doesn't actually hold much weight asshole.
Judges make factual determinations all the time. Or didn't you know that.
He lives in Russia. An independent judiciary is something he’s never seen and can’t comprehend.
One might think the exposure of the Russian collusion fraud would cause some trolls to think twice before making more fucking stupid Russian agent accusations. One would, of course, be wrong.
Judges abuse their authority when they playact as presidents. Or didn't you know that?
The Framers of the Constitution assigned the task of determining when the national guard should be called out to Congress. In doing so, they specifically rejected your claim that the President should make these decisions and decided that rules for them should be set into law by Congress.
The President has no say in the matter whatsoever., no say at all, none of his damn business, except as and to the extent Congress directs him by law. And judges are specifically qualified by the Constitution to say what the law is.
Your comment here is nothing but shameful groveling toadying ass-kissing and bootlicking. The idea that Mr. Trump is somehow some sort of unique godlike super-genius who is so divinely smart he is uniquely qualified to make even decisions that our constitution makes none of his business to make is absolutely pathetic. Have you no self-respect sir?
I happen to disagree with Professor Somin and think the President gets a measure of deference. But as the judges in Portland and Chicago, we are dealing with ordinary political protest, and Mr. Trump’s claims that ordinary protest is a riot or a rebellion simply have no basis in fact.
You are arguing the President can simply declare anyone he wants to be in rebellion against the United States and send in troops to shoot him, and nobody is qualified to disagree, let alone stop him. That total bullshit, and even such a toadying asshole as yourself knows it.
Frankly, I don’t understand why you are arguing this. You know perfectly well that if Mr. Trump has the power you claim he has, that means he has the power to declare YOU in rebellion if he decides he doesn’t like him and send out troops to shoot YOU. Don’t you fear for your life? Don’t you have any awareness that favor can be a very fickle thing? When one man has sole power to say whether a rebellion exists or not, declare anyone he wants to a rebel, and call out troops who can legally simply shoot and dispose of undesirables, yesterday’s favorites can easily become tomorrow’s dead bodies.
From Article 1 Congress alone has the authority to call out the National Guard (militia):
"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;"
Congress delegated this authority to the President under narrow circumstances. The President is obligated to adhere to those conditions and the judiciary has the authority to enforce those conditions if the President violates them.
So in your little reorganization of the Constitution, we have Congress on the top, followed by the Judiciary, with a subservient Executive at the bottom. So much for co-equal branches under a system of separation of powers.
Where were you educated Molly, crazy Dave’s school of bat shit crazy constitutional law?
The Constitution says nothing about co-equal branches and it is clear from the text that they are not co-equal. Congress rules supreme, as it should. In this case Congress alone has the authority to call out the National Guard.
Hard to tell if you're just being trying to be funny in an oddly sarcastic way or if you're really this phenomenally ignorant. If you honestly believe what you're writing, I suggest you make an effort to educate yourself in some basic constitutional principles before commenting here again. Either way, there is no point in carrying on this exchange further.
Congress is clearly the top brace. They created the substance of the executive branch, and all the lower courts. They write the laws for the military. They control all spending. They can remove the president and federal judges, but the president and judges can not remove members of Congress. The list goes on and on.
You’re a blithering idiot. I wish there were a nicer way to put that. No I don’t actually. You’re obviously just a child being a jack ass. Behave or I’ll tell your parents.
Where in the Constitutio does it say the branches are co equal? Or is that just something your high school civics teacher wrote on a blackboard?
The principle of co-equal, coordinate branches of government is a fundamental aspect of the U.S. Constitution and embodies the idea of checks and balances and separation of powers.
Are you an alias of “Molly” or are there really more similar buffoons out there? If you’re really a new buffoon, it is a rather shocking display of ignorance regarding constitutional basics. Is this a monumental failure in public education? Or you do all you fools just manage to congregate here? Pares cum paribus.
You say it's fundamental but you don't cite a source? Where in the original thinking would it be automatically assumed that the President is like a member of the Trinity, co -equal? The colonies had just thrown off a king?
And today, in the world of parliamentary democracy, why should we automatically assume a president gets to lord unchecked over a domain. Congress is a closer better representative of the will of the people, it has the power to say what the law is, and if the rule of law and democracy means anything that means it has primary place.
Is this some idiotic sealioning? The United State is a constitutional republic not a parliamentary democracy. Do you want a source for that too, little buffoon Molly clone?
And as for my previous comment on constitution fundamentals, asking for a source here is akin to asking for a source if I had noted that "water is wet" or "night follows day." But if you sincerely want to educate yourself (doubtful), you could consult the Federalist Papers, Marbury v Madison and, quite literally, every other S.Ct. case touching on separation of powers, well as every book, commentary or article on the subject. In fact, on this subject, you would have to go out of your way not to trip over some source material.
Riva also believes in 6 or 7 Golden Calves.
"And as for my previous comment on constitution fundamentals, asking for a source here is akin to asking for a source if I had noted that "water is wet" or "night follows day." But if you sincerely want to educate yourself (doubtful), you could consult the Federalist Papers, Marbury v Madison and, quite literally, every other S.Ct. case touching on separation of powers, well as every book, commentary or article on the subject. In fact, on this subject, you would have to go out of your way not to trip over some source material."
Actually, Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803), imposed judicial limitations on both of the other branches. The Supreme Court there opined that Madison's refusal to deliver Marbury's commission was illegal. The Court also held that it was normally proper in such situations for a court to order the government official in question to deliver the commission.
There is also that little matter about:
5 U.S. at 137.
Citing Marbury for the aggrandizement of executive power is just foolish.
Fun fact: the Federalist Papers at no point says that the branches are "co-equal." That term appears several times in the papers, describing the states, the states of the Netherlands, the two houses of the legislature, the states and federal government vis-à-vis taxation, the two houses of the British parliament. But not the three branches of the U.S. government.
Also doesn't say that the branches are co-equal.
Wow Crazy Dave. That’s an impressive display of awe inspiring ignorance.
Marbury v Madison “..doesn’t say that the branches are co-equal." WTF? Asshole must have been absent the day when Marbury v. Madison was discussed in school. The case both relies on and reinforces the principle of co-equal branches of government when articulating the separation of powers doctrine. That's the rationale underlying the Court's invalidation of a law that expanded the Court’s original jurisdiction. The Court preserved its constitutional role and ensured no branch could usurp the powers of the others. In case you were confused asshole, that's the structural balance that underlies the separation of powers doctrine.
As for the Federalist Papers. I doubt asshole has ever read any of the essays. Not sure how his brain, such as it is, works. He could be confusing it with the Paper Chase because both reference “paper.”
But if asshole wants to educate himself (not going to happen), he should consult the original documents. The Federalist Papers explicitly expound upon and rely on the principle of co-equal branches of government as part of their defense of the Constitution’s separation of powers. He might want to take a gander at Federalist 51, 63, 71, and 78.
Three branches are NOT co-equal . . . agreed. Different roles and responsibilities so, if I may say, Separate and not Equal.
And there is a hierarchy - the Executive is to faithfully execute the laws. Which laws? Well, those passed by both houses . . . and, by the way, ascented to by the President.
But the Congress is not the Executive. It can't make anybody do anything outside of Congress. Indeed, neither the House nor the Senate can make the other do anything.
Congress can't deploy anything. It can't order troops to move, planes to fly or guns to shoot. That is up to the Executive. Remember, the Congress isn't even present, both houses in session, all the time. Indeed the Constitution includes provisions for just such times. Thus the need for a full time Executive that can act on its own, under the laws.
If Congress doesn't like what was done, it (they) can change the law (with the ascent of the President) and/or impeach him/her.
Anyway, that's what I think.
Could you rewrite that but use "assent" because all I can think of are jokes about the Rapture. While you're there, I have some extra Oxford commas you're welcome to use so you don't look like you're writing to us from 1981. I think your shift key is fucked up, too; it's capitalizing words at random.
It appears that, unlike you, she took a basic course in Civics. The Constitution specifically assigns the task of providing for calling out the Militia to Congress. Congress doesn’t have to delegate ANY of that task to the President. It can make its own calls and pass an individual law calling out the militia in EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL CASE if it wants to, giving the President NO SAY WHATSOEVER in the decision.
Instead, it has chosen to give the President a VERY LIMITED AMOUNT of discretion in the matter. And, as in every case where Congress grants some of its power to the President, courts supervise the President to make sure he conforms.
What you are doing has nothing to do with constitution. The Constitution never says the branches are equal, just separate. The idea they are equal comes from you. You are taking your own idea, a nice-soundng but inaccurate gloss the Constitution doesn’t actually say, and then claiming it overrides what the clear text of the constitution actually DOES say.
If you knew something about the constitution, you might have heard of the non-delegation doctrine. If is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for Congress to give the President the kind of unlimited, irreviewable discretion you are claiming the President has on a matter, like this one, the the Constitution assigns exclusively to Congress. Instead, if Congress chooses to delegate any of its power to the President, it MUST impose clear rules and standards that cabin the President’s authority, and the President’s conduct MUST be reviewable by the Courts to ensure that he conforms to those standards.
Your claims are complete nonsense. You are confusing the commander-in-chief power, the power to command the militia once called out, with the power to call them out in the first place. Only Congress has the power to call the militia out, just as only Congress has the power to initiate military action.
The Framers said very clearly they did not want to delegate the awesome power to initiate ANY military action - make war, impose martial law, call out the militia, anything - to one man. They didn’t. All these powers belong to Congress alone.
I mean, if you inferred this idea of yours that the Constitution directly gives the President the unreviewable power to declare any group of people he wants to rebels and have them shot by federal troops whenever he wants to from the phrase “provide for the common defense,” at least you’d be mentioning something that actually appears somewhere in the Constitution’s text. This “coequal branches” bullshit appears nowhere. The President gets some powers, Congress other powers, the Judiciary other powers still. Whether those enumerated powers are equal or not is purely in the eye of the beholder. The Constitution itself says nothing a about the matter.
The idea that not only must they be equal, but your personal idea of what “equality”means totally overrides the Constitution’s explicit text about who gets what powers, is pure bullshit.
These court findings are findings and are not something any president has to follow. The executive is the one responsible for executing the laws, not judges. Judges, well intentioned arbiters that they may be, are not held higher than the executive, nor have authority over a president. They can offer a voice, but that's it.
The focus must be on the source of the problem here, and that's the state of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago who are not doing their jobs in keeping the peace. Local lawlessness can be solved, but isn't by local government, thus federal action is warranted if the executive determines it to preserve order and see to it federal laws are carried out.
The degeneracy of local and state governments is why federal action is being activated, something none of really want to happen. State control is preferred, but is severely absent. Local control is preferred, but is severely absent.
A president unconstrained by the Judaical Branch. How very fascist of you.
I still kinda amazes me how MAGAs want to give dictatorial powers to Trump to "enforce the laws" but are completely unconcerned when Trump breaks the law or Constitution.
It still kinda amazes me that the TDS deranged profess to decry dictators yet welcome a dictatorial judiciary.
TDS is a mental illness characterized by believing anything Trump says and defending everything he does. Facts, truth, legality, morality, and what they stood for yesterday are not relevant.
America has a murder problem!
America has more murders than any other place in the world!
Maybe it’s all the guns.
Does Mr. Trump use lube? Inquiring minds want to know. And from the tenor of your comments, you’ve made it very clear you have personal experience in the matter.
Watch a fucking video, will ya? For the last couple of days the IL state police have been out in force containing the protests at the Broadview facility. They are keeping protestors off the road blocking the entrance. They are making arrests.
The people of Chicago are the one's protesting ICE and their henchman. They are the one's seeing random tamale ladies and other non violent residents disappearing. They don't want militarized police patrolling their neighborhoods; scaring people, acting like assholes, wearing masks and kidnapping people at random.
Local control is not absent. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DNatGYiq7qs Here is a close up video. Those cops in brown are IL State Police. These protests are not even that big and feds are exaggerating their ass off. Comparing protestors slashing ICE vehicle tires to a 'armed rebellion and violent resistance.' Cmon. Judges are not stupid. Federal judges in particular.
I was downtown in the run up to the Iraq War. There were 100k protestors marching down Dearborn street. There's like 150 people at Broadview. People don't know what the f they are talking about.
"For the last couple of days the IL state police have been out in force containing the protests at the Broadview facility."
...and what brought them out? How long will they remain?
not a big fan of Marbury v Madison, are you? I assume you agree with Trump v. CASA, at least, in which the SG conceded (and Barrett affirmed) that the Executive must abide by at least the Supreme Court's Precedent - not just its Decisions. so if by some miracle SCOTUS upholds this ruling on appeal, the Executive is commanded to desist from using the National Guard in these circumstances.
True, but he’ll ignore it or invoke the insurrection act and flatly ignore any TRO entered against him. And in reality, the courts can’t do anything. And congress is so sniveling they’ll do nothing either. That is how well lose America.
Continuing to lie about this won't make it true.
David, you are living proof that a nitwit can become a practicing attorney.
4,000+ murders in Chiraq since Pritzker became governor, and you claim that is doing his job and keeping the peace.
4000 murdered ICE goons?
Innocent Americans murdered and Democrats could care less.
2020: 779 murders 2021: 805 murders 2022: 715 murders 2023: 621 murders 2024: 581 murders 2025: 331 murders so far (through October 4)
To date, adding up the completed years (2019–2024) gives a total of 4,001 murders. Including the partial 2025 figure through early October brings the total to approximately 4,332 murders in Chicago since Pritzker’s election and through the majority of 2025
Your dick is showing.
Its name is "Randal."
Has anyone noticed the lack of school shootings in D.C. when Trump sent the National Guard there?
There was a lack of hurricanes and earthquakes also, which can equally be attributed to the National Guard.
Also no rapture there.
If Trump remains at liberty to deploy the National Guard or the regular military inside American borders, then expect the midterm election to be conducted under Trump's military supervision. Voter qualifications, poll access, election procedures, vote counting, and election certification will be subject to military orders from the Commander in Chief.
A republic operated that way would be a republic which the American People have not kept, and will be unlikely to recover.
The Justices of the Supreme Court will shortly have in their hands the responsibility to abide by their oaths, and to order the Executive to do likewise. If the Supreme Court fails in that duty, and does not order the Executive to stand down the military, direct action by the People is the last possibility remaining to save the republic.
Later today, a national effort at political demonstration will get underway. It will be wise if the Supreme Court becomes a focus of that demonstration.
There remains a chance the Supreme Court will listen. The Executive will not be listening. It will be monitoring, practicing, and planning.
"If Trump remains at liberty to deploy the National Guard or the regular military inside American borders, then expect the midterm election to be conducted under Trump's military supervision. Voter qualifications, poll access, election procedures, vote counting, and election certification will be subject to military orders from the Commander in Chief."
You frequently do this fantasy-football TDS thing in your posts where you start off OK but then leap straight into orbit. No doubt you think you're just doing a straight-line projection, but you ignore completely the fact that there are laws, regulations, and an entire state apparatus -- including police powers -- that stand ready to explicitly forbid every one of these imagined excesses.
And then there's this: "f the Supreme Court fails in that duty, and does not order the Executive to stand down the military, direct action by the People is the last possibility remaining to save the republic."
Brother, if that means what I think you mean, YOU are the danger to the republic.
To quote Mark Twain: "I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened." We have a system. It's been in continuous operation for 249 years and counting. It's not like we've never dealt with people like Trump before.
Something new in public discourse, feigned complacency? Your ostensible stance is patience to give a crisis time to resolve itself, by means which remain unmentioned. I take your actual preference to be Trump/MAGA success. See if you can say anything convincing to persuade me otherwise.
An alleged terrorist who participated in Hamas’s Oct. 7, 2023, attack in Israel is currently being held in a Louisiana jail, charged earlier this month with entering the United States using a fraudulent visa given to him by the Biden administration, according to a criminal complaint and inmate records.
Federal prosecutors charged Mahmoud Amin Ya’Qub al-Muhtadi, 33, with visa fraud and support for a foreign terrorist organization, according to a criminal complaint unsealed Friday that details his alleged participation in Hamas’s slaughter of more than 1,200 Israelis. Al-Muhtadi is currently being held in the Saint Martin Parish Correctional Center in St. Martinville, La., inmate records show.
"Al-Muhtadi, also known as Abu Ala, allegedly served as an operative in the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine’s (DFLP) military wing, a Gaza-based terror outfit that stormed through Israel on Oct. 7. When Al-Muhtadi "learned about the Hamas invasion," he allegedly "armed himself, alerted others, and crossed into Israel with the intention of assisting in Hamas’s terror attack," according to the criminal complaint, which is based on testimony from an FBI agent.
Federal investigators determined al-Muhtadi was present in Kibbutz Kfar Aza, "the location of a horrifying massacre by Hamas and its supporters," based on geolocational data gathered from his cell phone. Israel’s security services provided additional information about al-Muhtadi’s terrorist ties, the complaint states.
Shortly after Hamas breached Israeli territory, al-Muhtadi began "coordinating a group of armed fighters to join him in traveling from Gaza into Israel to participate in Hamas’s attack," the complaint alleges. About three hours after the first wave of fighters crossed into Israel, al-Muhtadi arrived near Kfar Aza.
Hamas and Gazans murdered more than 60 civilians in that kibbutz, including at least 4 Americans, and kidnapped 19 others. One of the 19 kidnapped was also American.
On June 26, 2024, less than a year after Oct. 7, an individual named "Mahmoud Almuhtadi" submitted an immigrant visa application to the Biden administration’s State Department. The alleged terrorist swore in the document he was not a member of a militant organization and "did not seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States," according to portions of that application described in the complaint.
By Sept. 12, al-Muhtadi had entered the United States via Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, where he was photographed upon arrival. In the subsequent weeks and months, al-Muhtadi allegedly exchanged messages with his terrorist allies abroad, and even posted pictures of himself draped in a keffiyeh loading a nine-millimeter handgun.
At the time of his arrest, al-Muhtadi was living in Lafayette, La., and working at a restaurant, where he was surveilled by the FBI.
Attorney General Pam Bondi said in a statement the Justice Department is committed to bringing consequences to bear for terrorists like al-Muhtadi.
"After hiding out in the United States, this monster has been found and charged with participating in the atrocities of October 7—the single deadliest day for Jewish people since the Holocaust," Bondi said. "While nothing can fully heal the scars left by Hamas’s brutal attack, this Department’s Joint Task Force October 7 is dedicated to finding and prosecuting those responsible for that horrific day, including the murder of dozens of American citizens. We will continue to stand by Jewish Americans and Jewish people around the world against anti-Semitism and terrorism in all its forms."
This all looks like properly spelled English so it must be a cut and paste. I realize you think this proves something, though what isn't clear.
Oh and his name is St. Kirk. I watched the religious ceremony elevating him to the pantheon of gods.
Charlie Kirk was the victim of a political assassination. Some repulsive pukes on the left actually celebrate the murder. What can one do but let that the repugnant hacks be repugnant hacks? They'll just end up offending even more people. But the leftist hacks are just too vile and too stupid to change. Vile and stupid defines them, wouldn't you agree?
I didn't see many celebrate the murder. I did see a fair number not celebrate the victim. There's a difference, don't you agree?
Is 10 USC 252 unclear? I assume that will be the next move. No showing of "rebellion" is required, nor are judges at liberty to decide if the criminal behavior is "bad enough" to justify a response from law enforcement.
Mobs are attacking ICE agents, who are enforcing federal immigration law, and at least in some instances Chicago police were told to not protect those agents. This naturally calls for a federal response. If it isn't the NG or military, ICE should create armed units to protect their officers.
Obviously, immigration is the rub here. Those who simply disapprove of any immigration controls don't want immigration law enforced, apparently to the point of tolerating any lawless behavior that obstructs enforcement.
No. No. No. There is no rebellion. Ice officers are detaining American citizens. DHS is requiring people to to prove they are citizens (when the burden is o the government to show they are not citizens). ICE is breaking up families.
While there are a few bad people being deported (and good riddance), this operation is upending our society.
Our government is closed. The admistration's response is 'good', let's close it more. Prosecutors are fired for not bringing up charges against Trump foes, and when charges are brought, grand juries don't indict, judges dismiss the charges, or juries find the defendants not guilty. The entire medical science establishment is being deconstructed. A war is beginning in South America. Tarrifs may be destroying small businesses. We don't know what the Epstein files contain. Friends of Trump get pardons (George Doris, really?) or are child molesters sent to minimum security prisons. Farmers are desperate for markets, while the US is hiding $20 or $40 billion to Argentina. Health insurance premiums for the poor are going through the roof.
Yes, the Israeli hostages were released, that is a good thing.
Trump is breaking things fast. We can only pray that things can be fixed.
Whereas your preference is lawless behavior to facilitate enforcement?
Also? Imaginary facts and made-up legal doctrines are a bad mix to cook up a persuasive comment. Federal immigration law requires lawful enforcement every time. ICE doesn't get a sometimes pass to seize U.S. citizens or lawfully present foreign nationals, or in secrecy to spirit prisoners out of view, and beyond reach of legal defense.
That's fascist stuff, not American constitutionalism.
All law enforcement "breaks up families." All law enforcement risks arresting the wrong person. These are not serious objections to law enforcement. Again, I know libertarians simply oppose immigration controls, which is what this is actually about. It's not a debate over means, but over ends.
"Imaginary facts and made-up legal doctrines are a bad mix to cook up a persuasive comment."
The irony is breathtaking...
No.
Also no.
A side thought. What if instead of the National Guard, Trump sent "U.S. Marshals" or "FBI Agents" in to enforce federal law? And, under Trump these groups are restructured to now wear camouflage, riot gear and carry M-16s. They are in 5,000 man units, er sorry, departments or agencies.
Is the label the problem? Would anyone argue that under the "new" system Trump cannot control federal law enforcement?
That would be legal. But it comes at a cost of lawlessness everywhere else. There are a finite number of FBI gems and marshals.
Of course, it is POTUS's decision on how to enforce the laws.
Notice that most people are not arguing the Ice cannot detain people who are not properly in the US. The issue is the tactics, not the enforcement.
What is happening now is 100% un-American and in many cases unlawful.
Notice that most people are not arguing the Ice cannot detain people who are not properly in the US. The issue is the tactics, not the enforcement.
What is happening now is 100% un-American and in many cases unlawful
"There are a finite number of FBI gems and marshals."
Right. I was imagining a situation where Trump posts on Truth Social and has a makeshift training for every 18 to 25 year old with a desire to show up and is physically fit. Then he is called an "FBI Agent" or "US Marshal" or "Trump's Federal Law Enforcement Not the Military (TFLENTM)"
Oh. Good luck finding enough volunteersand training them.
You don't think that there would be any takers out in red states? Hell, recruit from current National Guard members.
Nope. I could be wrong. Are you a veteran? People don't sign up for the military, why would they join a new paramilitary force? And if people choose it, the military will suffer from the loss of recruits. There are too many MAGA chickehawks and not enough disciplined warriors to fill the ranks.
"People don't sign up for the military . . . "
Right.
And yet despite no one signing up, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Space Force have all met or exceeded their respective 2025 enlistment goals.
(the Marines always do)
Some people love living in a bubble where the "people" they know don't sign up for the military.
The current numbers come from the prior administration. Let's see what we get after one year of this administration. You might be correct.
wvattorney13 — What you propose—just appointing untrained people as FBI agents—would be a program of mass demoralization from which the FBI would be unlikely to recover. It is hard for me to imagine what combination of inexperience and heedlessness would lead anyone to think otherwise.
Plus which, as a pretext, your proposal ought to get no more legal deference than the present lawlessness. The problem is not that something called ICE is enforcing immigration law. The problem is that ICE is not enforcing immigration law, but instead deployed to terrorize and intimidate everyone.
You apparently count yourself among some category you think privileged. Perhaps that will prove true, while the authoritarian methods you approve remain under the control of a president you are keen to empower. But let those methods get a foothold under this president, and others who will use those methods to target folks like you will be along presently.
Why is it so hard to see that the success of American constitutionalism is legacy to be cherished, not recklessly to be discarded?
"The problem is not that something called ICE is enforcing immigration law. The problem is that ICE is not enforcing immigration law, but instead deployed to terrorize and intimidate everyone."
What are you talking about? Everyone agrees that it is legal for ICE to be in place. That is only a problem for the extreme left.
The topic of this thread is whether Trump is permitted to use the National Guard. My question was, "Is it just labels?" Could Trump do this with regular federal law enforcement, even federal law enforcement revamped to look like the military? Even local police look more and more like the military.
I didn't say I supported this or was encouraging it. I was trying to Socrates the legality of it.
It is not just labels. The armed forces are not for law enforcement. That is why we have the posse commitatus act. The president cannot, and should not be able to change that. It is Congress's job. If Congress passed a bill allowing it, and the president signed it, we'll, OK. It might, arguably, be bad policy, but it would be lawful and constitutional.p
We fought a revolution because a king insisted on enforcing the law with the military.
Again, what is the difference between a group of ATF agents in riot gear carrying M-16s than a group of Army soldiers? Can one be called the other?
You say, "no" but would we not then be getting into what weapons the police can carry? Could a court rule that the NYPD is functionally a standing army in violation of posse comitatus?
Congress approved ICE to enforce laws Congress generally prohibits the military from enforce laws domestically.
What's the difference? The law.
Just saying, but a state could authorize it's militia, i.e.,national guard to do law enforcement. So can Congress
Where are the funds for this coming from? Congress didn't appropriate them.
Please don't fight the hypo. Funds are transferred from BATFE, FBI, US Marshal Service, whatever. Administrative staff are laid off and the money is used for TFLENTM training and equipment.
The funds you want transferred Congress authorized for BATFE, FBI, US Marshal Service, whatever. So, no. Not legal.
American constitutionalism does not specify one big pot of undifferentiated money at the disposal of the Executive. Are you sure you are a lawyer?
They'll just sheepdip military.
WVA......13 must think he's a federal judge.
The label is the problem. And the fact that Trump could enforce with non-military personnel but hasn't even tried undermines his claim that he's "unable with the regular forces to enforce the laws."
He's trying as hard as he can to escalate so that the military is everywhere before we know it. He's got 3.5 years and counting.
From Trump's point of view the mid-term election is probably the emergency inflection point. Less than one year before that becomes the critical focus.
By the way, look for speedy action from SCOTUS to shitcan whatever is left of the voting rights act, and finish gutting the 14A.
We could call them the Praetorian Guard!
Deleted and put as a reply.
I disagree. The debate is about means as well as ends.
What happens when ICE has to shoot its way out of a bad situation?
Casualties?
The same thing that happens when a killer robot is sent back in time to eliminate the leader of the human resistance before he's born.
A clip of the fiery but peaceful protests: https://x.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1979747815015546962
Body cams must be used ruling. Security barricades must be taken down ruling. 1860 all over again.
The Ninth Circuit validates the Title 10 legitimacy of POTUS backing ICE in Portland with the Guard where the violent opposition to federal law enforcement has been markedly less severe than in Chicago.