The Volokh Conspiracy
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Prosecutions Under New "Prosecuting Burning of the American Flag" Executive Order Would Violate First Amendment
And this is so even though the order targets flag desecration that could be punished under more neutral rules.
[1.] The order doesn't purport to cover all flag desecration, presumably recognizing that the Supreme Court has held that flag desecration as such can't be banned. See, e.g., Texas v. Johnson (1989); U.S. v. Eichman (1990). Rather, it covers desecration that violates "applicable, content-neutral laws, while causing harm unrelated to expression, consistent with the First Amendment." Thus, it seems to require that federal authorities, for instance, "prioritize the enforcement of … criminal and civil laws" as to "destruction of property laws" or "open burning restrictions." It might therefore cover desecration of a flag stolen from government property, or flag burning in a fire hazard zone on federal property.
[2.] This having been said, content-neutral laws banning theft of government property, or starting fires in brush fire danger zones, are constitutional precisely because they are content-neutral. But the Order expressly targets flag desecration that violates those laws because it communicates a "uniquely offensive and provocative" of "contempt, hostility, and violence against our Nation—the clearest possible expression of opposition to the political union that preserves our rights, liberty, and security." That is a content-based, indeed viewpoint-based, enforcement policy.
And such content-based selective enforcement is itself unconstitutional. Thus, for instance, the Supreme Court recognized in McCullen v. Coakley (2014) that even if a restriction on speech outside abortion clinics is facially content-neutral, if the police do not "enforce" it "equally against clinic escorts" and instead selectively target anti-abortion protesters, "such allegations might state a claim of official viewpoint discrimination."
And the Court favorably cited Hoye v. City of Oakland (9th Cir. 2011), which found unconstitutional the "selective enforcement [against anti-abortion protesters] of a similar [facially content-neutral] ordinance." In Hoye's words, because "Oakland has acknowledged having a policy of enforcing the Ordinance based on the content of speech," "[t]hat policy is unconstitutional":
Oakland's enforcement policy is a constitutionally invalid, content-based regulation of speech. By adopting that policy, Oakland has taken sides in a public debate in a manner that … the Constitution does not permit.
Or consider Judge Neomi Rao's opinion in Frederick Douglass Found. v. D.C. (D.C. Cir. 2023):
This case concerns a constitutional challenge to the selective enforcement of the District of Columbia's defacement ordinance against some viewpoints but not others.
In the summer of 2020, thousands of protesters flooded the streets of the District to proclaim "Black Lives Matter." Over several weeks, the protesters covered streets, sidewalks, and storefronts with paint and chalk. The markings were ubiquitous and in open violation of the District's defacement ordinance, yet none of the protesters were arrested. During the same summer, District police officers arrested two pro-life advocates in a smaller protest for chalking "Black Pre-Born Lives Matter" on a public sidewalk….
The organizers of the smaller protest, the Frederick Douglass Foundation and Students for Life of America…, sued…. We hold the Foundation has plausibly alleged the District discriminated on the basis of viewpoint in the selective enforcement of its defacement ordinance. We therefore reverse the dismissal of the Foundation's First Amendment claim ….
[3.] The same applies if the policy mandated by the order is used to prosecute someone for flag burning in a context that constitutes "fighting words" (i.e., in Texas v. Johnson's words, "a direct personal insult or an invitation to exchange fisticuffs" [emphasis added]). The order appears to expressly contemplate that, both by mentioning "fighting words" and by mentioning "disorderly conduct laws."
R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul (1992) held that "selective regulation" of fighting words based on their particular message is generally unconstitutional, even though punishing fighting words solely because of their tendency to promote a fight (regardless of any additional message) is constitutionally permissible. R.A.V. struck down an ordinance that facially targeted fighting words that angered people based on race, religion, and the like, but the same logic would apply to the Executive Order, which facially targets fighting words that anger people because they involve or are accompanied by flag desecration.
[4.] So if the government neutrally punishes people who damage government property, or start dangerous fires, it is free to do so. See, e.g., City of Columbus v. Meyer (Ohio Ct. App. 2003) (upholding a conviction for burning a flag under a generally applicable fire prevention ordinance); Bohmfalk v. City of San Antonio (W.D. Tex. 2010) (concluding that an arrest in such a case didn't violate the First Amendment). But here the government targets flag desecration precisely based on the content (and indeed based on the viewpoint) of the message that people are expressing. That violates the First Amendment.
[5.] Finally, the Order contemplates deporting and otherwise denying immigration benefits to aliens who desecrate the flag, "under circumstances that permit the exercise of such remedies pursuant to Federal law." Whether deportation of aliens based on their speech is constitutional is unsettled.
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Suppose I burn a government-owned American flag and Trump's DOJ comes after me. Do I get off because the prosecution is motivated by an unconstitutional policy, or do I go to prison because they would have prosecuted me anyway?
For bonus points: Do I get sentenced as a terrorist because my depredation or arson had a political motive?
Burning a flag is an act. Punching the face of the flag burner should also be a protected act, as an expression of free speech. The lawyer only protects hatred of America as free speech. The toxic lawyer profession is an internal enemy to our nation.
Thanks for an actual analysis, EV. Too much blather about this is just bla-bla-blather.
So why is burning a Gay Pride flag a “Hate Crime”?
The Court in Wisconsin v. Mitchell held content-based determinations of the penalty for a crime are permissible even though content-based selective enforcement is generally not (*).
(*) Content-based selective enforcement is permissible when the entire reason for selective enforcement is based on why the speech is not protected (Virginia v. Black, where the Court held selective prosecuting of cross-burning as a true threat is permissible because the entire reason for choosing cross burning is it is a worse true threat).
To be precise, burning a gay pride flag isn't a hate crime. Burning a gay pride flag (or any flag) on a gay person's lawn may be a hate crime, if the person was targeted because he's gay, because it involves selecting a crime victim because of the victim's sexual orientation.
So a government cannot prioritize the prosecution of general destruction of property crimes because the perpetrators were motivated by hatred of gays?
As Eugene noted, it's not hatred of gays. It's selecting the victim because you think they are gay, which is not speech.
If only that were true in the real world. Sorry but too many times we've seen where people are prosecuted for desecrating pride flags or sidewalks or even memes.
Anecdotes from like PowerLine are not going to tell you much about the 'real world.'
Perhaps you could provide a list.
Here's one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50861259
15 years in prison for stealing a pride flag, and burning it.
In fairness, it was 15 years for "hate crime harassment, reckless use of fire and being a habitual offender". He would have (probably) gotten the same sentence regardless of whose flag he stole.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/4-charged-hate-crimes-destroying-lgbtq-pride-flags-atlanta-police-say-rcna214846
Destroying city owned pride flags at a street intersection.
Again folks, there isn't a crime for burning a Pride Flag. The crime is vandalism with an enhanced penalty because the target of the vandalism was thought (by the perps) to be gay.
The same thing can happen if you burn someone else's American flag and target them because you think they are an American (hate crime laws cover national origin).
That proves too much. Even in this situation where there was no "target" or victim, the act of vandalizing a pride flag can always be considered a hate crime.
This started the whole side discussion of the EO. Under your logic why couldn't the vandalism of an American flag always be considered not only punishable but a hate crime?
That seems to be all the EO is saying. Take my story and substitute American flag for pride flag. Trump is saying punish that. EV says you can't do it. A poster is pushing back and saying, "Well, they do it with pride flags."
the act of vandalizing a pride flag can always be considered a hate crime
Not under most hate crime statutes - you're assuming prima facie evidence I don't think you can in all circumstances.
See: cross burning.
No. A thousand times no. A jury must be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt you targeted the victim because you thought they were gay or had an association with gays.
If the flag is owned by the city, the DA would have to introduce evidence the flag was targeted because the perp thought the city had an association with gays (e.g., supporting gay rights). If instead it's an American flag owned by the city, the DA would have to introduce evidence the flag was targeted because the perp thought the city had an association with Americans (e.g., supporting American exceptionalism).
"Not under most hate crime statutes - you're assuming prima facie evidence I don't think you can in all circumstances."
Take the story I just cited. You tear down a city owned pride flag in the middle of the night and destroy it in the street. Nobody around. Not hurled through the window of a gay person's house. No target at all. Hate crime charges being considered.
I would assume that I could order a pride flag off of Amazon and burn it quietly in my back yard with no one around. But given the facts in the article, what situation would allow me to burn a pride flag where anyone sees it and not have it be charged as a hate crime?
"If the flag is owned by the city, the DA would have to introduce evidence the flag was targeted because the perp thought the city had an association with gays (e.g., supporting gay rights). "
What city would be flying a pride flag if the city was not supporting gay rights?
Again, these qualifiers collapse into "always."
Could be. Nonetheless, the DA has to prove the perp chose to burn this flag because of the city's gay-rights policies. And the DA has to prove the perp chose to burn an American flag because of the city's pro-American policies.
Note the EO says nothing about hate crime enhancements. It orders prioritization of the prosecution of non-enhanced vandalism when an American flag is burned, but not for any other flag. As Eugene explained, that violates the First Amendment and the discussion about hate-crime enhancements is a red herring.
I plan to burn a book of Rules of Civil Procedure in front of the courthouse. 100% of it is unvalidated, anti-scientific, worthless, toxic garbage, designed to force people to hire a lawyer. Should I be concerned about getting arrested? I do not see the difference between that and burning the flag in front of a patriot on the sidewalk. It is to hurt feelings, to frighten, and to intimidate the patriot. As I said, the toxic lawyer profession only protects hatred of America and is an internal enemy to our country.
May I hang and burn a life size, facially accurate effigy of the judge that dismissed my case inside the courthouse? What about hanging and burning 9 life size and accurate effigies of the Supreme Court? How about 541 effigies of the Congress, including the non-voting ones?
That's a good case cite.
So why couldn't a law be passed that says vandalism of property=X penalty. Vandalism because it is an American flag=X penalty plus 3 years in prison?
It isn’t and never has been.
I’m just a Simple Country Doctor, (emphasis on “Simple”)
But explain me how setting something on fire is “Speech”.
Frank “I wasn’t setting Mayor Mandami on fire, I was “speaking”
It's "expressive", and so is freedom of gesture, freedom of semaphore flag waggling, freedom of tapping out morse code, and all sorts of expressive conduct.
The reason it's covered by freedom of speech is because freedom, period, is not guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, and even if it were, Slaughterhouse didn't incorporate them against the states, and the courts started feeling guilty about not recognizing all sorts of freedoms and now bring them back one by one, in baby steps. Thus topless dancing, but I gather not nude dancing, is protected by Freedom of
ExpressionSpeech.And flag burning for expressive purposes is protected.
Alot of Sound & Fury there
Non-obscene nude dancing is protected by the First Amendment. As SCOTUS opined in Schad v. Borough of Mount Ephraim, 452 U.S. 61, 65-66 (1981):
The Supreme Court upheld the constitutional validity of an Indiana public indecency law which prohibited all forms of public nudity in Barnes v. Glen Theatre, Inc., 501 U.S. 560 (1991). A three justice plurality opined that the challenged statute furthered a substantial government interest in protecting order and morality, which interest was unrelated to the suppression of free expression. Id., at 569-570. Justice Scalia rejected altogether the contention that nude dancing is entitled to First Amendment protection. Id., at 572-573. Justice Souter concurred in the in the judgment, agreeing with the plurality and the dissent that an interest in freely engaging in the nude dancing at issue here is subject to a degree of First Amendment protection, but based his decision not on the possible sufficiency of society's moral views to justify the limitations at issue, but on the State's substantial interest in combating the secondary effects of adult entertainment establishments because nude dancing encourages prostitution, increases sexual assaults, and attracts other criminal activity.". Id., at 581-582.
"When a fragmented Court decides a case and no single rationale explaining the result enjoys the assent of five Justices, the holding of the Court may be viewed as that position taken by those Members who concurred in the judgments on the narrowest grounds." Marks v. United States, 430 U.S. 188, 193 (1977). Application of the Marks standard to Barnes v. Glen Theatre indicates that the controlling opinion is that of Justice Souter (which reaffirmed that nude dancing is entitled to First Amendment protection). See, Triplett Grille, Inc., v. City of Akron, 40 F.3d 129, 134 (6th Cir. 1994).
It's expressive conduct subject to the O'Brien test, a form of intermediate scrutiny.
For the historical treatment of symbolic expression as tantamount to verbal expression, see my Symbolic Expression and the Original Meaning of the First Amendment.
Note also that the very first case striking down government action on constitutional freedom of expression grounds involved symbolic expression; in that case, it was displaying a flag. Likewise, the very first case striking down government action as an unconstitutional compulsion of expression involved symbolic expression alongside verbal expression. The cases were Stromberg in 1931 and Barnette in 1943.
Too simple for elementary punctuation, capitalization, and other basic English rules.
“We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.” Donald Trump
Pardon where the verb in your sentence?
There is none, what do you think is the “gotcha” here?
Where’s the verb in this: My idea of the perfect evening: the sound of crickets in the background, the gentle breeze of sea air, a picture-perfect sunset, and a glass of good red wine at the end of a lazy summer's day.
Silly goose. The point escaped your clutches.
No verb here either: I find Stupid quite stupid indeed.
Speech doesn't mean the physical act of speaking.
It means communicating a message.
Flag burning at it's core is about communicating a message.
Is recording a speech onto some physical medium covered by the freedom of speech, or the freedom of the press? Genuinely curious.
I think speech, freedom of the press is a superset of speech.
Is there a size limit to the burning, from flag to building as expression of speech? Where is the size limit?
If you set Mayor Mandami on fire, there are two things happening: 1) you are speaking your displeasure at Mayor Mandami, and 2) you are committing a very serious malicious assault on him.
#2 is not speech and it is certainly not protected. It can be punished apart from your communicative intent for a variety of reasons, including the competing rights of the Mayor.
If you set an American flag on fire, you have the first speech element, but when you look at #2 that you are destroying an American flag---there is no independent reason to punish that OTHER than for its speech value that the government does not like. Therefore the whole thing collapses into a regulation of speech.
Now, the whole thing is overblown. You can't burn an American flag anywhere you want. You can't burn your garbage in the street, nor can you burn a flag in the street. If the government is generally punishing burning X at a particular location, that is fine.
That's where this EO comes in. Trump is saying, "Fine, lawyers, you can burn the flag, but if we see you burning it and we can find any other reason to get you, we will." EV argues that this is still bad for the reasons in the article.
"So if the government neutrally punishes people who damage government property, or start dangerous fires, it is free to do so. See, e.g., City of Columbus v. Meyer (Ohio Ct. App. 2003) (upholding a conviction for burning a flag under a generally applicable fire prevention ordinance); Bohmfalk v. City of San Antonio (W.D. Tex. 2010) (concluding that an arrest in such a case didn't violate the First Amendment). But when the government targets flag desecration precisely based on the content (and indeed based on the viewpoint) of the message that people are expressing. That violates the First Amendment."
Suppose the new policy would be most accurately described as, "Ceasing content based failures to prosecute people who damage government property, or start dangerous fires"?
After all, I'm not aware that the government has, as a general rule, refrained from punishing people who damage government property, or start dangerous fires. But I wouldn't be shocked if it had formerly had a policy of refraining from such prosecutions where American flags were what was being burned, in order to extend tolerance of protest further than was actually constitutionally necessary.
It’s interesting the mental gymnastics some will go through instead of just condemning this anti-liberty garbage.
The worst libertarian.
Always telling what BrettLaw does and does not protect.
Yeah, terrible libertarians are always down on people who vandalize other people's property. [/sarc]
Look, I don't much care if you want to burn your own flag on your own property, but this order doesn't have anything to do with that, now, does it?
“when the government targets flag desecration precisely based on the content (and indeed based on the viewpoint) of the message that people are expressing.”
"The order doesn't purport to cover all flag desecration, presumably recognizing that the Supreme Court has held that flag desecration as such can't be banned. See, e.g., Texas v. Johnson (1989); U.S. v. Eichman (1990). Rather, it covers desecration that violates "applicable, content-neutral laws, while causing harm unrelated to expression, consistent with the First Amendment.""
The order is quite clear that it is NOT directed against flag burning which is legal, only where it violates applicable and constitutional laws. So, while it may target flag 'desecration', more precisely, what it targets are CRIMES that happen to involve flag 'desecration'.
Thus my suggestion it that it may be more accurately be described as ending any former policy of forbearance, since expressly it only targets conduct which could have been prosecuted all along.
I can't say I'm entirely happy with the EO, given the reference to hate crimes, and the term "flag desecration" tends to raise my hackles, as I don't think flags are sacred to begin with. But given the limitation to acts that are properly crimes, I can't say it terribly offends me.
Don't break the law, and this EO will not impact you one bit.
Everyone, even you, know what this is trying to ban. You're just working very hard to deny it by blinding yourself with increasingly baroque edge cases.
It selectively targets certain crimes involving expression because of the viewpoint and content of the expression.
Politically, it's a genius move. Trump's opponents will (of course) challenge it in court - putting Democrats on record as supporting burning the flag.
Maybe they will not chase the laser pointer this time.
Yeah right
There is approximately zero chance they won't chase the laser pointer this, or any other, time. They don't think Trump is smart enough to be leading them around with a laser pointer.
Yeah, we should all support that freedom.
I don’t think the politics respond as you think, old man. But more importantly it shouldn’t matter.
Leave it to MAGAs to see everything Trump does as a petty political move to own the libs, even if that move is wildly unconstitutional.
There is nothing to "challenge in court." Anyone that the government actually tries to prosecute will be able to raise a compelling 1A defense.
Presumably with a challenge in court.
If someone were prosecuted federally for flag burning, he would likely raise the issue on a pretrial motion to dismiss. If the motion were denied and a conviction ensued, the defendant could raise the unconstitutionality of the statute as applied as an issue on appeal.
Burning (one's own) flag as a form of protest is one of the liberties that the flag itself stands for.
Do the MAGAts get as incensed about a burning cross as they do about a burning flag?
It’s actually a “Cross Lighting” and dates back to the Christian Missionaries trying to convert the Vikings by linking their Pagan traditions to Hey-Zeus
Frank
Yeah. I'm sure that's what the Klan had in mind.
Come on, Frank, you're pissing on our shoes and telling us it's raining.
Would it violate the first amendment any more than carry permits violate the second?
What if Trump does an EO that requires a permit to burn a flag, as that particular 'speech' is like an assault rifle, more likely to result in violence?
Can the flag burners be required to get an environmental impact statement prior to causing all that global warming?
So many questions - - - - - -
Whataboutism.
Maybe SCOTUS will see the error in the original horrible decision.
No one is surprised to see you supporting using government force to enforce proper nationalistic behavior.
Great. California or the next democratic admin can start arresting everyone with a blue lives matter flag or can’t help but wear ridiculous American flag clothing.
Since you brought it up....
Way back in my childhood, before the Supremes issued their ruling that flag burning was protected speech, they used to teach us rules about respecting the flag.
One of them was that you couldn't use it as clothing. Especially not casual clothing: No flag short-shorts, no flag wife-beaters, no mixing it with an asinine slogan on a gimme cap.
Another was that you had to handle it with respect, which would definitely preclude wiping your face and mouth on it. Especially a face covered with dirty orange fake tan lotion used as makeup.
And yes, I would have been equally disgusted if my candidate (Chase Oliver) started wiping his greasy face on the flag in front of cheering Libertarians. But he didn't do that, and if he was wearing makeup it wasn't greasy; and if he had done it we wouldn't have cheered.
However, just to be clear, Trump has a First Amendment right to do it, and his supporters have the right to soil their flag shorts when sweat at their rallies.
Professor Volokh, the answer to this question is probably implicit in your original post, but I am interested in hearing the answer explicitly:
Assume that a person goes onto federal property and engages in (non-consensual) vandalism of an American flag owned by someone else, or by the federal government. Assume further that the act is of such a nature that it would already have been prosecuted without this executive order. Does this order actually make that prosecution harder for a federal prosecutor to pursue?
At the risk of answering for Prof Volokh, I can't think of why it would. You'd have to show that the government had a pattern and practice of not prosecuting similar trespassing and vandalism generally and was selectively enforcing the law only on you because of your viewpoint. This EO might demonstrate motive for the selective enforcement but you'd never there because the government does regularly prosecute trespassing and vandalism. With no evidence of selective enforcement, you never get to the motive analysis.
But if you did have evidence of selective enforcement, other cases and precedents are so clear that I don't see this EO making the presumption against the government any worse.
Which is an impossible task. With enough money and manhours you can go through the courthouse and see who was prosecuted for a statute and why, but how could you ever compile a list of people who were not prosecuted for something?
As I think about it, EV's analysis has some holes. Couldn't any vandal try to get off by saying that he was only targeted because of what he vandalized? Oh, I vandalized a church, so you hit me harder than you would have if it was a bowling alley, etc.
I suppose if you could show that the government would have let you destroy the entire federal building but only prosecuted you for burning the flag on the pole outside, maybe you could win (but see Whren v. US) but how could you show that?
Rossami, I tend to think that your view of the law is persuasive. As you explain, citing the Executive Order is neither necessary nor sufficient to make out a selective prosecution claim -- the non-enforcement part is just as important as the enforcement part.
But if that is the case, then I struggle to see how there is any teeth to Professor Volokh's conclusion that a prosecution under this Executive Order is unconstitutional. Is Professor Volokh's claim just self-referential? -- a prosecution under the EO is selective because if it weren't selective then it would be a prosecution under normal practice, and not a prosecution under the EO.
The EO says nothing about selective enforcement. It says that prosecution of certain crimes are prioritized over others. That does not mean the others will not be prosecuted. And, as you say, those other crimes ARE routinely prosecuted.
The First Amendment issue strikes me as less interesting than the unconstitutionality of trying to do by executive order what would clearly require an act of Congress. Seems conservatives only care about executive order overreach when a Democrat is in the White House. (And before anyone what abouts Joe Biden, I objected to his too.)
A Woman of No Importance: As I understand it, the Order doesn't purport to create any new crimes, but only orders federal prosecutors to maximally enforce existing laws as applied to flag desecration. Why would that (setting aside the First Amendment) require an Act of Congress?
Another immigrant who hates "the United States of America, and American freedom, identity, and strength"...
Good analysis. How does it square with Whren v. U.S. which says that as long as probable cause is present, an arrest can be made even if it is pretextual?
Whren concluded that "Subjective intentions play no role in ordinary, probable-cause Fourth Amendment analysis." But, as McCullen and the circuit cases I cite make clear, the government's intentions is relevant in First Amendment cases, and if there's sufficient evidence that people are being selectively prosecuted based on the content or viewpoint of their speech, that may constitute a First Amendment violation.
I am waiting for the inevitable executive order that prioritizes protecting white male Christians in the enforcement of Civil Rights laws.
"I am waiting for the inevitable executive order that prioritizes protecting white male Christians in the enforcement of Civil Rights laws."
Actually, criminal prosecution after the fact does not protect the victim -- who has already suffered harm -- at all.
That does raise an interesting question: One of the few circumstances under which the Court has ruled that formal policies of racially discriminating can be constitutional, is when the institution having them adopted them to compensate for a prior history of opposite racial discrimination.
The Obama administration had a policy of not enforcing civil rights laws when the victim was white. Does that imply that it WOULD be constitutional for Trump to adopt your proposed policy? If not, why?
The Obama administration had a policy of not enforcing civil rights laws when the victim was white
Any source for that, or just vibes? Best I could find in Googling was rewarmed BLACK PANTHERS nonsense.
Does that imply that it WOULD be constitutional for Trump to adopt your proposed policy? If not, why?
Why is this an interesting question? Why would this come up?
Your brain is pickled in white resentment.
Yeah, the Black Panthers non-nonsense.
Prosecutor: DoJ bias against whites
To be clear, my answer to my own question would be, "Hell, no".
But that's because I reject the idea that past discrimination can justify present discrimination. The Court has not agreed with me on that, and I'm asking what principled basis they'd have for not extending their reasoning in other cases in this way.
Wasn't just that one prosecutor, either.
Dispute over New Black Panthers case causes deep divisions
"In recent months, Adams and a Justice Department colleague have said the case was dismissed because the department is reluctant to pursue cases against minorities accused of violating the voting rights of whites. Three other Justice Department lawyers, in recent interviews, gave the same description of the department's culture, which department officials strongly deny."
that violates "applicable, content-neutral laws,
Yay! Laws of general applicability cavalierly trodding on fundamental rights rears its ugly head!
This time by the wrong guys though. :-/
Wearing an American Flag shirt on Cinco de Mayo will get a Texas student sent home for 'disrupting education' - in essence, provoking fights. So, display of the American flag can be situationally "fighting words" but burning it isn't?
Or easier - the Ninth Circuit was wrong when they decided Dariano v. Morgan Hill (and SCOTUS took the coward's way out when they declined to correct it).
Students have limited speech inside school as school staff have more latitude to reduce disruptions.
You'd probably get sent home for burning a flag as well.
Wearing a Mexican flag these days gets you pulled over by ICE.
Not that you care about those people's freedoms.
"Not that you care about those people's freedoms."
I don't know how you might have jumped to that conclusion. At best, you might conjecture I don't care about your opinions.
You reached way back over 10 years ago to get butthurt about; I think you've made your priorities clear.
Troll Level: Multiverse-dimensional!
So now the dems, communists and Somin will start arguing for burning the flag.
Republicans do a flag burning ban every few years, it’s not the three dimensional chess you think.
Trump Decrees Anyone Who Does Not Bow Down To The American Flag When The Music Plays Shall Be Tossed Into The Fiery Furnace
Sorry, Prof. Volokh, I think you are wrong here. First, as you recognize, this is not a law but an enforcement policy. The laws themselves are content neutral, and this pass Constitutional muster.
Second, as for the policy, one would have to show selective enforcement. On its face, the EO merely talks about prioritizing prosecution of certain crimes over others. Not failure to prosecute crimes not involving the flag. And, there is no reason to think that the same crimes committed without use of a flag would not be prosecuted. A criminal defendant would have a very hard time showing that they aren't.
The cases you cite indeed involved non-prosecution of others. The Frederick Douglas case, for example, alleged that protestors who defaced public property with different messages were never prosecuted.
How does prioritize enforcement not mandate selective enforcement? Unless prosecutors have infinite resources, one follows the other.
I have never understood it to be the case that every instance of prosecutorial discretion (prioritization) raises the possibility of a selective prosecution claim.
First, there is effect -- a selective enforcement claim is not available whenever there is any amount less than 100% enforcement against others. It must be "so unequal" as to be "a practical denial" of the constitutional right.
Second, there is intent -- a selective enforcement claim requires that the selection criterion be improper. Obviously if the decision to prosecute turns on whether, on the facts of the case, the defendant "inten[ded] to convey a particularized message" that the government disapproves of, and it was likely that "the message would be understood by those who viewed it," then that would be a forbidden ground. But the EO doesn't actually say to prosecute based on the intent of the defendant. It's language is effect-based, not intent-based. And there are cases where it could apply to destruction of a flag that do not meet the O'Brien test for what is expressive conduct -- maybe not a lot, but enough that you do have to jump through an extra hoop.
So my initial impression is that an applicant would need to show quite a bit more than just the existence of the EO to obtain an injunction against prosecuting flag-burners under any conceivable content-neutral law. And every selective prosecution claim in a criminal case would still rise or fall on the facts of the individual case. The EO is neither necessary nor sufficient to conclusively show selective prosecution.
I am open to the idea that it increases the likelihood of a judge finding a prosecution to be selective -- perhaps even greatly so. But I don't see that an executive order to prioritize cases translates automatically into a nullification of duly-enacted content-neutral laws.
Footnote: I am open to the idea that the current selective prosecution test might be too restrictive, and I am very open to the idea that O'Brien is insufficiently protective of expressive conduct. But presumably we are trying to analyze the current state of the law.
"First, there is effect -- a selective enforcement claim is not available whenever there is any amount less than 100% enforcement against others. It must be "so unequal" as to be "a practical denial" of the constitutional right."
Agreed. That's why I say above, if I am prosecuted for burning the flag from a pole off of the federal building, the EO wouldn't save me. I would have to show that I could destroy other things on the federal building and not get prosecuted.
I suppose there could be a scenario where 30 people damaged the building but I was the only one charged because I burned the flag. But is that really how it happens?
Couldn't the government always insulate itself from selective prosecution allegations by starting to prosecute everyone involved?
“On its face, the EO merely talks about prioritizing prosecution of certain crimes over others.”
Certain crimes that involve expression of certain viewpoints.
The EO prioritizes violations *based on the content of speech* that the violations contain.
That would seem to make it not 'content neutral' anymore.
The issue is what does "it" in you sentence refer to.
Certainly not the underlying law -- that by definition is content neutral.
The EO is certainly not content neutral. But the question is whether that is a Constitutional violation. Given that it merely prioritizes prosecution of certain crimes based on content, but does not give a pass to the same crimes that don't, its not selective prosecution.
Either those crimes were not going to be prosecuted if the EO hadn't been issued — in which case it's a violation — or they were, in which case it doesn't do anything at all.
This is why I come over here.
Reason has legal 'analysis' that completely misses the points that are clarified in this post. They just yell that its unconstitutional because its a violation of the 1st to prevent you from burning your flag - which is not what the EO prohibits.
How idiotic the legal system in the United States of America has become. You can't burn a cross but you can burn the flag. You should not be able to do either. The American legal establishment is a breath away from total disintegration.
You can generally burn a cross. You can't burn a cross that is intended as a true threat. And, you can't burn a flag that is intended as a true threat.
Or, in either case, when it isn't your cross/flag.
Texas v Johnson was wrongly decided and should be overturned. I side with Justice John Paul Stevens. I see no issue with an EO that would set up a case to overturn a wrong decision.
There is no "That speech makes me really sad" exception to the 1A.
“The e ideas of liberty and equality have been an irresistible force in motivating leaders like Patrick Henry, Susan B. Anthony, and Abraham Lincoln, schoolteachers like Nathan Hale and Booker T. Washington, the Philippine Scouts who fought at Bataan, and the soldiers who scaled the bluff at Omaha Beach. If those ideas are worth fighting for -- and our history demonstrates that they are -- it cannot be true that the flag that uniquely symbolizes their power is not itself worthy of protection from unnecessary desecration.“
— Justice John Paul Stevens
Without flag burning, porn, drugs, and zoning laws, libertarians would be out of business.