The Volokh Conspiracy
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Why Trump's Plan to Exclude Undocumented Migrants From Census Count Determining Apportionment of Congressional Seats is Unconstitutional
The Constitution requires apportionment to be based on a count of all "persons," excluding only "Indians not taxed."

Donald Trump plans to order a new census that excludes undocumented immigrants from the population count used to determine apportionment of congressional seats:
President Donald Trump announced in a social media post on Thursday that he has directed the Department of Commerce to begin work on a new US census that excludes undocumented immigrants from the population count.
"I have instructed our Department of Commerce to immediately begin work on a new and highly accurate CENSUS based on modern day facts and figures and, importantly, using the results and information gained from the Presidential Election of 2024," Trump wrote in a Truth Social post.
"People who are in our Country illegally WILL NOT BE COUNTED IN THE CENSUS," the president added.
This is obviously unconstitutional, for reasons outline in an amicus brief University of Texas law Prof. Sanford Levinson (one of the nation's leading constitutional law scholars) and I filed in the 2020 Supreme Court case of Trump v. New York, which arose the last time Trump tried this same ploy. Here's an excerpt from the brief summarizing some of our key points:
The Constitution requires the federal government to apportion congressional seats "among the several States" based on the number of "Persons" in each State. U.S. Const. art. I, § 2; see id. amend. XIV. In an unprecedented decision, the President has made it "the policy of the United States to exclude from the apportionment base aliens who are not in lawful immigration status…." Because that policy flouts the Constitution's text and original public meaning, any effort to enforce that policy by excluding undocumented people from congressional apportionment is unconstitutional….
[E]xcluding undocumented immigrants is at odds with the Apportionment Clause's command that the government base congressional apportionment on the number of "Persons" living in each State. U.S. Const. art. I, § 2. "Persons" is a broad term and was equally broad at the founding. Then, as now, it referred to all human beings.
While that plain language is broad enough on its face to include undocumented immigrants living in a State, surrounding words and text from elsewhere in the Constitution reinforce that the Framers understood "Persons" as a broad and general term. For instance, the Apportionment Clause excludes "Indians not taxed" from the apportionment count. Because Indians were considered noncitizens with allegiance to their tribes, the Framers would have had no reason to expressly exclude them from the apportionment base if "Persons" excluded foreigners or those with an allegiance to a sovereign other than the United States. The Constitution's use of "Citizens" in other provisions also underscores that the Framers distinguished between "Persons" and "Citizens"—a subset of "Persons…."
Appellants' contrary arguments cannot overcome these points. Appellants never address the ordinary meaning of "Persons" or the "Indians not taxed" provision, which would be superfluous if the Framers understood "Persons" to exclude foreigners. Instead, Appellants rely on the Apportionment Clause's language before it underwent stylistic changes in the Committee of Style. Because that language based apportionment on the number of "inhabitants," not "Persons," Appellants contend that the Framers intended to exclude foreigners. Appellants distort the meaning of "inhabitants." According to the founding-era sources Appellants cite, inhabitants are those people who intend to stay somewhere indefinitely. Undocumented immigrants, by and large, intend to stay in the United States indefinitely. Appellants' conjecture that some of these immigrants may be removed at some point cannot alter those persons' intention to remain here. That intention is what matters.
Sandy Levinson and I differ on a wide range of disputed constitutional issues - many more than we agree on. But we are in complete agreement here.
The brief goes into some detail on such issues as why undocumented immigrants are different from tourists and foreign diplomats (who historically have not been counted for apportionment), and why there is nothing unusual or intrinsically objectionable about including people in apportionment counts who did not have the right to vote. Indeed, for much of American history, a substantial majority of those counted for apportionment did not have that right.
I also outlined many of the same points in an October 2020 Los Angeles Times op ed.
The Supreme Court ultimately dismissed the case on procedural grounds, holding that the plaintiff states lacked standing, because it wasn't yet clear whether and to what extent Trump would actually manage to exclude undocumented immigrants from the census (he ultimately failed to achieve much before leaving office on January 20, 2021).
This time around, Trump may be able to go further down this road. If so, the Supreme Court may need to resolve the issue on the merits. When and if that happens, the right answer should be clear.
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Persons are citizens or legal residents. People must be recorded in a census and if not citizens or legal residents, then they get deported, thus illegal aliens can never be counted.
Somin is an advocate of the America replacement plan of the Democrat Party. He wants a permanent one party state. That will shithole America as it has Cuba, Venezuela, and Cali. All the historical experiments have one result, the shitholing of the nation.
This threat justifies a decisive response. Visit the dozens of tech and fin bros behind the Great Replacement. The Castros and Maduros are multi-billionaires. That is a complete explanation for this attack on our nation.
"Persons are citizens or legal residents. People must be recorded in a census and if not citizens or legal residents, then they get deported, thus illegal aliens can never be counted."
Au contraire, NvEric. "Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as 'persons" guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. . . . Indeed, we have clearly held that the Fifth Amendment protects aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful from invidious discrimination by the Federal Government. " Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 210 (1982).
That doesn't mean they should be counted in the census so Democrats can get unearned representation and Republicans can be disenfranchised.
not guilty is long practiced at throwing out red herrings and specious quotes.
How is who qualifies as a "person" under the Constitution specious or a red herring, Michael P?
Are you perhaps envious of my ability to find and cite relevant legal authorities?
No, the fact that the constitution says all persons means that they should be counted. If Republicans want the benefit of their presence, then maybe the governors of their states should stop engaging in performative stunts like shipping them off to cities in blue states.
Counted, but not used in apportionment for the House, etc. hence, why the nascent Biden Administration removed the citizenship question on the 2020 Census within days of taking office. No count of aliens meant no reduction in counts fr reapportionment.
Per the Fourteenth Amendment, § 2: "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed."
What part of that do you misunderstand, Bruce?
I see Bruce's track record for honesty continues to be unparalleled. The 2020 census was completed in September 2020, when Donald Trump was president. Joe Biden could not have removed any question. The question was removed in 2019 — when Donald Trump was also president — when the Supreme Court ruled that it had been illegally added.
Yes, used in apportionment. The 14th amendment explicitly says, "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed."
But if they have not been deported, they are counted?
First, you don't even understand our immigration laws; there are many categories other than citizens, legal residents, or illegal aliens. Second, illegal aliens — unlike fetuses — are persons.
Citation please? Because the public meaning of "persons" was not limited to "citizens or legal residents" when the Constitution was enacted.
“[P]erson” at the founding was a “general loose term for human being.” Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language s.v. person (3d. ed. 1766).
Legal sources from that era also consistently defined “aliens” as a subset of “persons.” See 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries ch. 10 (1765); 2 James Kent, Commentaries on American Law 33–63 (1826).
Not to mention, the Apportionment Clause literally distinguishes between "persons" and "citizens" by using both terms in ways that are not interchangeable.
I wonder what procedural dodge SCOTUS will come up with to avoid hearing this one on the merits, while it changes election outcomes nationwide.
Note also, there is mischief in permitting either Congress or the Executive to conduct a census whenever they choose. The Constitution calls for every 10 years.
That is a de facto check against gaming the system by evaluating whether current congressional membership will favor partisan-leaning changes to census procedures. It opens the door to what amounts to chronology-based gerrymandering. And that is what Trump is trying to get done now.
SCOTUS ought to reject all apportionment-related changes made on the basis of any but the decennial census.
There has never been a census done in the midst of a pandemic before. And there are known errors they made.
The Spanish Flu was still going strong during the 1920 census. Its fourth wave was cresting in January while the census was being conducted.
Society didn't shut down for epidemics until recently. And by "recently", I mean Covid.
Eh, not from the histories I've read. The Spanish Flu did pretty much shut down society, though not for quite as long as the covid response.
The primary difference, I think, is that a higher proportion of the population was rural during the Spanish Flu so those folks were less affected.
The Constitution defines a maximum time between censuses. It doesn't define a minimum time. That definition was defined before there were term limits imposed on the Presidency. This allows for apportionment to be revised on a regular basis.
Mr constitutional scholar completely ignoring the subsequent text in the apportionment clause.
Not to mention common sense that clearly shows only citizens are to be used for apportionment .
Do they give out George mason professorships in cracker jacks boxes?
AmosArch — So every newly-differing insistence on common sense ought to be matched by a newly-differing reading of common law?
You are right. It probably is unconstitutional. That'd be a great place to get back to discuss.
I addressed the net effect of this years ago with ranked reasons for easy immigration years ago, from noble to disreputable.
1. America is the great shining city on the hill. Come here, and live free, free from dictatorship and corruption, and make a better life for yourself and your family!
2. In an econonically free society, the more, the better.
3. Import people hand over fist to delay the inevitable hard choices for social security. This is what has motivated both parties for 30 years. Unlike the first two, it is not noble at all, but utilitarian.
4. Import people hand over fist to twist demographics to win elections. This is not only not noble, it is arguably evil. Those who seek to use this strategy do so to gain power, which they then use to increase economic burden, which defeats point 2 above, said burden steadily increasing as it begins to ape the corruption burdens of 1 of the countries these people fled from. You go into power to get in the way to get paid to get back out of the way.
So here we sit, one asshole faction faceting nobility as they undermine with intent for ancient reasons, and another resisting by using another ancient populist technique.
Fundamental Theorem of Government: Corruption is not an unfortunate side effect of the wielding of power. It is the purpose of it from day one.
How can you get in the way if you have no power? How can you have a throbbing economy from #1 and #2, so much so your taxes give you unprecidented monies you can then have your cronies skim from?
Krayt — Does your nihilism extend to insistence that there exists nothing at all that power ought to obstruct? Seems like your arguments typically jump from premised critiques to the same posited answer—end government power—no matter what premises you begin with.
I do not question the need for things, just the corruption of those who gleefully leap to the obstructionist nature of it.
If free speech and free press forces things deeper into the cloakrooms, well, empiracle evidence of our strong economy shows the burden is relatively low, compared to most of the world, from which most immigrants come, so, good! That's not the politician's doing, though. That's them being girded from doing what they want to do, easily.
But to put it bluntly, no, I do not grant noble motives except on the surface, overstated and hyperbolated, while family fortunes continue upward at multiples of their servants of the people salaries.
"2. In an econonically free society, the more, the better."
In economically free societies, as other societies, you'll find that diminishing returns are a thing, and somewhat beyond them, the returns start being eclipsed by the costs. So, no, you can't say in an unqualified manner that "the more, the better".
Up to a point, the more, the better. Depending on the nature of the more.
Where is that point?
No, more is not better. The USA would be better off with half the population it has today.
Has Ilya ever heard of Baker v. Carr and it's "one voter, one vote" mandate?
Under that interpretation, you'd need to also exclude children, permanent residents and disenfranchised criminals. Particularly for children, that would seem to be anti-natalist and punish states that have high population growth. Which seems a bad idea from the get go.
Noncitizens cannot vote under federal law. No federal law bars children from voting; it is up to the states to set a minimum age, so long as it is not lower than 18.
Why does that matter? Dr. Ed 2 seems to be claiming the appointment needs to be based on voters. That the disqualification exists at the state level rather than the federal level doesn't effect the question. Also I think you mean "is not higher than 18".
Nobody has ever heard of that, because you made it up. Setting aside that you confuse Baker v. Carr with Reynolds v. Sims, it was one person, one vote, not one voter, one vote.
Right. What SCOTUS decided in Baker v. Carr was that state reapportionment determinations present a federal question justiciable in federal courts.
Just as an aside, the attorney who argued Baker v. Carr on behalf of the City of Nashville, Z. T. Osborn, later represented Jimmy Hoffa. Osborn was himself tried and convicted thereafter of endeavoring to bribe a member of the jury panel. His conviction was eventually affirmed by SCOTUS. Osborn v. United States, 385 U.S. 323 (1966). He shot himself to death before going into custody.
"'Persons' is a broad term and was equally broad at the founding. Then, as now, it referred to all human beings."
What about corporations?
Corporations aren't people. Incorporation (sometimes called glibly 'corporate personhood') is a legal fiction to make things like tax work better. You might have heard differently or that the SCOTUS held differently in cases like Citizens United v. FEC. But that's poor legal reporting. In Citizens United they didn't hold corporations are people with free speech rights. They held that corporations are made up of people. They're one of the ways Americans exercise their free association rights. And that such restrictions effect that association's members rights.
>In Citizens United they didn't hold corporations are people with free speech rights. They held that corporations are made up of people.
No, they didn't. They didn't address the issue at all, because they had previously held that the First Amendment invalidates restrictions on corporate political spending in First Nat. Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, 435 US 765 (1978). And that case did not rely on the rationale you posit, either.
It's right there in the opinion if you read through the reasoning. For example from one of the concurrences:
"It is the speech of many individual Americans, who have associated in a common cause, giving the leadership of the party the right to speak on their behalf. The association of individuals in a business corporation is no different — or at least it cannot be denied the right to speak on the simplistic ground that it is not "an individual American."
Sorry got cut off. And from the main opinion things like "Yet certain disfavored associations of citizens—those that have taken on the corporate form—are penalized for engaging in the same political speech."
"Yet certain disfavored associations of citizens—those that have taken on the corporate form—are penalized for engaging in the same political speech."
The trouble here is that no one wants to stop the members of the association from speaking as individuals or, for that matter, forming groups of like-minded members who are fully entitled to speak as a group.
The association of individuals in a business corporation is no different — or at least it cannot be denied the right to speak on the simplistic ground that it is not "an individual American."
Anyone who thinks a large public corporation is a "voluntary association" no different from a political party, or a garden club, is out of touch with reality.
And while it should not be denied the right to speak in general because it is not an individual, IMO the substantial principal-agent problem is enough to say that they should not take sides in election campaigns.
Have you ever read a history book?
Or even three fifths of one?
The citizenship clause says
>All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Trump is currently claiming this doesn't include illegal migrants based upon them not being "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". They've advanced this argument in court. In advancing this, haven't they accepted that illegal migrants *would* fit within the 'persons' part of the definition if not for the subsequent limiting clause?
Therefore when the appointment clause says:
> Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed
How can they argue that 'persons' doesn't include illegal migrants? There is no equivalent clause in this test. The only limitation is "Indians not taxed" and, even if a particular illegal migrant was an Indian, law and long-standing government policy is that they do need to pay tax.
In advancing this, haven't they accepted that illegal migrants *would* fit within the 'persons' part of the definition if not for the subsequent limiting clause?
No. As a matter of logic, Captain, if the law says :
"You may not wear red pants on Wednesdays"
your lawyer can get you off by arguing successfully that the prosecution has only introduced evidence of what you were wearing on Thursday, not on Wednesday. It is therefore irrelevant whether the puce knickerbockers you were wearing on Thursday qualify as "red pants."
By arguing on the day-of-the-week point only you do not concede the color-of-pants point. You just ignore it as it is unnecessary to your case. Winning on the day of the week is all you need to do.
If they aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the US, under what authority is ICE arresting them?
A good question to ask Trump yes.
Even diplomats, clearly not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, can be ejected from the country. The more appropriate question is under what authority they're being tried for crimes and punished.
No, Trump is currently claiming that it doesn't include children of illegal immigrants, born (or naturalized?) in the Untied States, based on them (or maybe their parents?) not being "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"...
It's still nonsense, but let's be clear about exactly which nonsense he's claiming.
1. Simply by raising the point, Trump provokes Somin and people much more important than Somin (aka Dem politicos) into defending illegal immigrants boosting the representation of Dems, simply by existing. This reinforces the Trumpian line that the Dems deliberately allow in illegals and resist their exclusion for self interested, anti-American reasons. This line plays poorly in university towns, but very well in flyover country. And tolerably well even in suburbia.
2. Unless and until an attempt is made to adjust the state by state representation, who has standing to resist this "unoffical" census ?
3. Simply doing the census in the cruel heartless anti-"undocumented" way may help Trump's deportation schemes. It may be useful intelligence gathering for ICE or it may actually persuade some illegals to go home for fear of being caught.
4. And then there's the internal state redistricting thing, where it remains unclear as to whether you have to divide up the state into districts with equal numbers of persons (ie including illegals) or equal numbers of voters. This census may provide states willing to have a crack at the latter scheme with some useful evidence for such redistricting.
In short, Trump throwing a stone in the pond and watching the ripples, with a broad grin on his face.
So it’s unconstitutional but you think it’s good politics so you are a fan.
Just more MAGA nihilism.
Kind of like school loan forgiveness, eh?
Biden taught us it should be used for political purposes.
"Whatabout?"
School loan forgiveness was not unconstitutional.
5) Putting a question of legal residency status on the census will simply deter large numbers of illegals from participating—achieves the objective by other means.
I'll put you down as another "situational originalist", then...
"I have instructed our Department of Commerce to immediately begin work on a new and highly accurate CENSUS based on modern day facts and figures..."
Perhaps you or Sarcastro can identify some text in the constitution which makes conducting such a census unconstitutional.
To reduce the chances of your making a public dildo of yourself, please read what I said at 2 above before attempting your answer.
Pew found that excluding the unlawfully present would remove one representative in CA, TX and FL while adding one to MN, OH and AL. Sounds like a push to me.
Trump has two legs to stand on in this, the first which is somewhat rickety, the second not bad.
The first, rickety leg, is to claim that foreign nationals who are not at least in the process of becoming American nationals are functionally "Indians not taxed".
Indians were the only significant group of citizens of a DIFERENT sovereign present on US soil. So the phrase COULD be interpreted as referring to foreign nationals.
How are Indian tribes identified, legally? It would be amusing if Trump declared Hondurans, say, to be a tribe.
The second, less rickety leg, would be to state that what is being ordered here is not "the" Census, but "a" census. That is to say, that the Census department is just being tasked with collecting some information for the Executive.
I hope the less rickety leg will hold up. It would be nice to get a more concrete number of illegals residing here. Even if it is not for apportionment purposes.
How many times have you been told your functionally "Indians not taxed" argument is just wrong and foreign nationals ARE taxed, and subject to our jurisdiction etc?
It's also a helluva thing to see Brett constantly talk about a functional take on the law. But consistency left you round about 2016.
not "the" Census, but "a" census
This sophistry is like what people who hate lawyers think lawyers do.
Under what grant of authority is the executive ordering the Census Bureau to do this?
How many times have I pointed out to you, that much of the current federal government rests on interpretations of the Constitution which are just as crazy?
You want to enjoy a situation where your end of the political spectrum benefits from constitutional Calvinball, but the opposing end must strictly follow the rules. I can understand why you'd want that, I can't understand why you'd expect it to be achievable.
It was always the case that either originalism would triumph, and much of modern constitutional doctrine undergirding the modern federal leviathan would fall, or the right would eventually give up on strict enforcement of the Constitution, and start playing Calvinball itself.
I might have wished for the former outcome, but the latter was always the more likely.
In short, you don't want to reap what you sowed. Understandable, but life doesn't work that way.
In other words, it's indefensible, and you no longer care.
If what I cared about mattered, we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. I'm just along for the ride.
Are you offering to stop the present usurpations of power, and revert to legitimate constitutional government? Shut down 90% of the federal government? No? Didn't think so.
You want to keep ill gotten gains, while demanding that the other side not live down to your example. What a joke.
One side plays Calvinball, BOTH sides play Calvinball. That's the way the world works.
So you will make arguments that even your hot take self thinks are wrong and use hot takes you think are right to excuse this.
What a tangled and bitter way to live.
Fortunately, we do not live under the Bellmore Constitution.
This nihilism is just an excuse to be unprincipled. It’s a bad way to be.
But whether or not nothing matters in this country, why do you post stuff you later admit you don’t believe?
How many times have I pointed out to you that this is not true, and you're just Areamanning?
How many times have I pointed out to you, that much of the current federal government rests on interpretations of the Constitution which are just as crazy?
There is a difference that you don't seem to get between "pointing out" and "claiming."
The former generally implies that the thing pointed out is a fact, while the latter is just stating an opinion.
Despite what you think, your opinions are not facts.
Like a federal secret police force. Bellmore likes that.
The first problem with the indians not taxed argument is the illegal migrants are taxed and the government insists they should pay tax. See the blow up of the IRS sharing that info with ICE. Unless you can get passed that, we don't even need to start with them being indians.
I also think the Founders were probably aware of the incredibly obscure distinction between "Indians" and other non-citizens...
I SAID it was rickety, didn't I?
I also said that much of the modern federal government's activities are grounded in no less rickety constitutional arguments, so these sorts of serious logical and textual objections are hardly a guarantee as to how the Court will rule.
Much of the prior, and strongly textually grounded, understanding of the limits of federal power got shitcanned during FDR's time in office, and a substantial portion of what remained has since fallen.
Now, Trump is hardly FDR, in terms of popularity, or, frankly, ruthlessness. And he's not going to be replacing a majority of the Court with yes-men, either; Even if the Senate were cooperative, he's not got the time.
OTOH, the Court's habit of upholding textual limits on federal authority is almost extinguished at this point. So if he got Congress' backing in having the Census only count citizens and maybe green card holders, I think the odds might be pretty good he'd win.
I think he'd be on much stronger grounds saying he's just asking the Census department to gather information, NOT conducting the constitutionally mandated Census on this basis. Frankly, the prohibition on the Census asking about citizenship back in '20 stank on ice, it used to be a routine question.
I am going to write Ilya’s headlines for the next three plus years.
Trump’s Plan To ____________
Illegals Undocumented Migrants is Unconstitutional.I can write Ilya’s headlines for the next three plus years.
Trump’s Plan To ______________
IllegalsUndocumented Migrants Is Unconstitutional.That says more about Trump than it does Ilya.
In practice, most of Ilya the Lesser's headlines for the past ten years have been of the form "Trump's Plan to _____ is Unconstitutional".
This is what he does...
Plus other posts to carry out Marxist plans to destroy the American way of life.
That's because Trump's Plan to _____ is always unconstitutional.
Remember the good old days when GOP spoke about getting rid of all the socialism that brings them here? But instead refused to repeal a single communist institution since Wilson?
Returning to the foundations that built this country would be the best solution to innumerable problems expansive government has created. Instead, we continuously get GOPtards allowing themselves to be catfished by communists, and believe merely stating capitalist makes it so.
What are you talking about? The Grand Old Party of old is long gone; the Republican Party is completely controlled by MAGARINOs now.
This may be an opportunity for the right wing of the court to find against Trump so that they can present themselves as unbiased.
Most of the migrants from Latin America have at least some indigenous Indian blood.
I think you make a great case here. However, it seems to sit uneasily with Reynolds vs. Sims, the one-man one-vote case. If that is constitutionally commanded, then I have a hard time reconciling it with counting people who can't vote - I have an easier time reconciling it with children, since the census is every 10 years and they will age in. I have the same problem with counting felons, though.
Anyway, is there a tension here, or am I missing something? Thanks for any comments.
Reynolds v. Sims was the case that destroyed America. It basically decreed that a city of 5 million people should be allowed to cancel out the votes of 4,999,999 rural people, spread throughout the rest of the state.
Isn't that what democracy is? Five million yeas and 4,999,999 nays means the yeas have it.
Why does where the voters live matter?
People. You are failing to look at who you're responding to. He doesn't care where they live; he cares what they look like.
"Reynolds v. Sims was the case that destroyed America. It basically decreed that a city of 5 million people should be allowed to cancel out the votes of 4,999,999 rural people, spread throughout the rest of the state."
How so? Each voter would vote for his/her own representative. Per Wikipedia, each House member represents an average of 761,169 people following the 2020 United States census. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_congressional_districts The 9,999,999 people that you hypothesize would be represented by 13 House members.
The state legislature could apportion those 13 seats in a variety of different ways, including creating a few districts composed entirely of residents of the city of 5 million people and carving up the remainder into adjacent rural majority districts. (A/k/a packing and cracking.)
For example, since the days of Andrew Jackson, the City of Nashville and its environs traditionally constituted the heart of a single Congressional district, sometimes called "the Hermitage district." Metropolitan Nashville and Davidson County has historically voted Democratic. In this century, the surrounding areas of Middle Tennessee have turned quite Republican in their voting habits. Following the 2020 census, Republicans in the General Assembly divided Davidson County among three House districts, including one district that extends from the Kentucky border to the Alabama border.
"The Constitution requires apportionment to be based on a count of all "persons," excluding only "Indians not taxed.""
And how many people coming to the U.S. illegally are at least partly Indian? If they are working in the cash pay economy, are they paying taxes?
Not taxed doesn't mean illegally not paying tax. It means not subject to paying tax. It's a verb. And the answer to your question must be at least some given Trump got into a big fight about letting the IRS share their tax data with ICE.
You mean like Ka$h Patel?
Since the first census in 1790, Congress has never applied the autistic hyper-literal interpretation of the highlighted phrase that Somin would attach to it. No sensible person would argue that the Constitution requires any human being, by virtue of his mere physical presence in a state on a given day, be he a soldier of an invading army or someone temporarily visiting from another state or country, must be counted and allocated to that state for apportionment purposes.
Historically, with the exceptions of 1900 and 1970, Americans stationed overseas, either in a civilian or military capacity, were not counted in the Census for apportionment purposes. Before the 1990 Census, several bills were introduced in Congress to change this, but none passed. So, the Secretary of Commerce decided to do so himself, allocating overseas personnel to their states of usual residence. As a result, Massachusetts lost one House seat and sued the federal government. Franklin v. Massachusetts, 505 U.S. 788 (1992).
The Court ruled in favor of the federal government, writing:
Id. at 804 (citations omitted) (emphasis added).
The word First Congress used in the Enumeration Act was "inhabitant", and that has been the understanding given to "person" in the Enumeration Clause ever since. In Franklin, the Court acknowledged that the Congress had some discretion to define "inhabitant" and had given that discretion to the Executive, who could count overseas personnel or not count them. The President, via the discretion delegated to him by Congress, can choose to count (or not count) individuals illegally in this country.
The case of Kaplan v. Tod, 267 U.S. 228 (1925), is illustrative. Kaplan had been born in Russia. In July 1914, at the age of 13, she was brought to the United States by her mother to join her father who was already here. Upon her entry, she was determined to be feebleminded, declared inadmissible, and ordered deported. Before that order could be executed, World War I erupted, and deportations were halted. She was sent to Ellis Island, where she stayed until June 1915, when she was released to the custody of an immigrant aid organization, who sent her to live with her father. Her father became a naturalized citizen in December 1920. The law at the time provided that the minor children of naturalized citizens became citizens themselves, provided the minor had been "dwelling in the United States" for five years. A deportation warrant was issued for Kaplan in 1923.
The question before the Court was whether Kaplan had been "dwelling in the United States" for five years when her father became a citizen. A unanimous Court, per Justice Holmes, held that she had not and upheld the deportation order. Though she had certainly been living in the United States with her father for more than five years in 1920, she was still subject to the deportation order of 1914, so, functionally, it was as if she were still being detained at the port of entry.
Congress has the discretion to declare illegal aliens to be "inhabitants" or not. It has delegated that discretion to the President, who is exercising it.
Indeed, the strongest argument in Trump's favor would be that the Census should be counting people as residents of their legal residence, not merely where they happen to be when the census encounters them. And that illegal aliens' legal residence is their home country.
Apportionment is a different question.
"The President, via the discretion delegated to him by Congress, can choose to count (or not count) individuals illegally in this country."
The holding in the cited case was about the government's determination of certain persons' appropriate "place of residence", not whether persons inarguably "in residence" could be disregarded for statistical (or, as in the instant case, blatantly political) purposes. Illegal aliens are obviously "residents"--that's why MAGAts want them deported.
"Inarguably in residence" is just begging the question, ONS. Whether the legal residence of an illegal alien is the country they came from, or the country they're illegally present in, is very much arguable.
I think for this argument to prevail, Trump would need Congress to pass a law stating outright that for all legal purposes, the legal residence of aliens present in the country who are not resident legal aliens will be their country of origin.
Will he get it? Probably not, Republican congresses are typically a waste of skin.
You may want to look into personal jurisdiction, which relies on residency.
If, as Somin &c. claim, the Constitution requires the counting of illegal aliens, then any such law passed by Congress would be unconstitutional. As the law stands now, the Secretary of Commerce conducts the Census "in such form and content as he may determine." Congress used to pass a law before each Census, but it was always a time-consuming and contentious affair, so, in 1929, it essentially told the Executive, "Here, you do it from now on."
Well, I think that Somin and company are wrong, but you need the law to properly tee up the case.
I am clairvoyant, so let me explain how this will go.
1. Trump will formally issue the order.
2. Democratic activists will immediately rush to sue.
3. A federal judge will enjoin the census bureau.
4. MAGA will rant and rave about lawfare and activist judges and Article II and whatever.
5. Trump will do an emergency appeal to SCOTUS.
6. SCOTUS will issue a shadow docket ruling staying the injunction on the grounds that it is premature, because merely designing or even conducting a census of lawful residents does not violate anyone's rights. There will be vigorous dissents from Sotomayor and/or Jackson, saying, in essence, "C'mon; we all know what's going on here."
7. They will do an incredibly half-assed job because planning for a census takes a lot more than a few months.
8. It won't matter to red states because this isn't an effort to do something legal or effective; it's just about performatively expressing bigotry while providing a fig leaf for the GOP to try to seize more power.
"because merely designing or even conducting a census of lawful residents does not violate anyone's rights."
Which is absolutely true, and is in fact the relevant legal question. You can't just insist that the administration not even obtain perfectly lawful information, just because you think they'll use it illegally.
Of course, this is lawful information Democrats don't want public, because if the public ever understood just how much counting illegal immigrants was skewing our politics, it might become politically impossible to continue.
Of course!
Of course, this is lawful information Democrats don't want public, because if the public ever understood just how much counting illegal immigrants was skewing our politics, it might become politically impossible to continue.
Above, Josh R. says:
Pew found that excluding the unlawfully present would remove one representative in CA, TX and FL while adding one to MN, OH and AL. Sounds like a push to me.
Have you read the study he links? Do you have some criticisms (other than that you don't like the result and would like to see the head of Pew fired)?
Having ICE conduct the census or ordering the census takers to cooperate and report to ICE will keep the counting constitutional and get rid of illegal aliens.
Hypocrites like Somin have lost their credibility with Americans. After turning a blind eye to the massive, institutionalized invasion of the United States by twenty million illegal aliens Ilya is fool enough to claim he is a champion of the law.
Seriously, I don't understand the half-assed lying. If you're going to fabricate a number, why not say 50 million, or 100 million, or 300 million?
At some point make an attempt to educate yourself before posting to keep from confirming your status as an idiot.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-undocumented-immigrant-population-roughly-double-current-estimate#:~:text=The%20research%20found%20that%20the%20number%20of,most%20prominent%20current%20estimate%20of%2011.3%20million.
The number of undocumented immigrants in the United States is roughly twice as high as commonly believed, according to new research from MIT Sloan and Yale professors. The research found that the number of undocumented immigrants living in the country is about 22.1 million, nearly twice the most prominent current estimate of 11.3 million.
Why do you hate the Constitution?
At this point it is hard to contemplate what unconstitutional EO Trump imght sign that the cultists would not approve of.
One thing I've been thinking about - universal injections.
Lets say a coalition of Blue states sue to mandate their illegal populations are included in any appropriations count. I don''t think complete relief for the states would require a universal injunction under the SCOTUS's test. It doesn't hurt California for Texas to have its population cut down after all and since its a snapshot the 'people move about' argument from the Birthright case doesn't apply either.
So state level block. Such an injunction would put the Red states in a really bad position. They want illegals removed because they think, on average, they come out ahead in the re-appropriation. But if the Blue states keep their illegals in the count and the Red states lose theirs, the situation switches completely around.
No, vaccine mandates are a different topic.
Oops! I meant injunctions there.
If the Chinese communist military ever lands on our shores, Ilya will be agitating for their soldiers to be counted as well. What a disgrace.
We certainly shouldn't count people here temporarily. Does France count the number of visitors to Paris in its census? Of course not. We likewise should only count the people actually residing here.
Now, someone living here without permission is a special case. If they were known, they could legitimately be deported, and thus would not be counted. It's hard to argue that successfully skirting immigration enforcement somehow qualifies one to be counted the same as a permanent resident.
It's not just foreign diplomats and tourists who are excluded. We also exclude foreign military personel temporarily stationed in the US, and some other people on temporary sorts of visas. The problem of course is that the distinction between where someone is temporarily versus indefinitely doesn't matter from a textual perspective - neither the constitution nor any statute suggests this distinction. It is one the census bureau just made up. And it does not align with how citizens or legal permanent residents are counted. Citizens and legal permanent residents are counted wherever they physically happen to be on census day, regardless of how temporary or permanent that is. At college out of state? You get counted at your college. Happen to be vacationing in Mexico on that day? You don't get counted anywhere. Imprisoned? Military and stationed away from your family? You get counted where you are, not where your home is. So why should we care how temporary or permanent a foreigner is? If it is legitimate for the executive branch (of which the census bureau is a part) to exclude foreigners with certain legal status like diplomats, tourists, military personel, etc, then it must be all the more legitimate for the executive branch to exclude foreigners with no legal status at all. If the census bureau can do it, then the president, to whom the census bureau reports, can surely order them to do it.
I am not clear why you think that.
The last time I filled out a census form, it very specifically asked me where I physically was on the census day, not where I lived or something. This is the standard way the census is conducted.
Even if a new census were to not count undocumented aliens, it is not at all clear that this would help the Republicans.
Based on Pew Foundation estimates, shows that states with the highest numbers of undocumented aliens are California, Texas, and Florida. In percentage terms, the highest percentage of population being undocumented are in Texas, 5.1 %, Florida 5%, New Jersey 4.9%, then California at 4.5%. New York is much lower at 3.3%
Based on the above, a new census would likely cost representatives in Florida and Texas slightly more than anywhere else
So, Trumpies, like always, be careful what you wish for. It might not turn out quite like you imagined.
"Why Trump's Plan to Exclude Undocumented Migrants From Census Count Determining Apportionment of Congressional Seats is Unconstitutional", because Ilya says so.
No, because the Constitution says so. If the Founders had meant citizens, not persons, it would have said so. Further, history and tradition supports Ilya's reading.
It’s not to exclude aliens (legal or illegal) from the count, but from the apportionment.
Do you posit that illegal aliens do not "[count among] the whole number of persons in each State" for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment. § 2?
The drafters of the Fourteenth Amendment. § 1 knew how to say "person(s)" when they meant it and "citizens" when they meant that (e.g., "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"). Do you claim that they somehow lacked the perspicacity to make any such intended distinction regarding § 2?
As a Middle Tennessee preacher from my youth was fond of saying, that doesn't make good sense. It doesn't even make good nonsense.
I think that most here are hung up on Article I enumeration. It says that everyone is counted. Fine. But that isn’t the end of the story. The 14th Amdt (amendng Art. I as necessary) says (essentially) that for apportionment purposes, these counts are to be reduced proportionally by the number in that state who are not allowed, by statute, to vote. This means disenfranchised felons, but also aliens (legal and illegal). And the latter is because federal statutory law prevents aliens from voting in federal elections.
Article I § 2 ¶ 2
“ Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct.”
Amdt XIV § 2
“Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.”
18 U.S. Code § 611 - Voting by aliens
(a) It shall be unlawful for any alien to vote in any election held solely or in part for the purpose of electing a candidate for the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner, unless—
(1) the election is held partly for some other purpose;
(2) aliens are authorized to vote for such other purpose under a State constitution or statute or a local ordinance; and
(3) voting for such other purpose is conducted independently of voting for a candidate for such Federal offices, in such a manner that an alien has the opportunity to vote for such other purpose, but not an opportunity to vote for a candidate for any one or more of such Federal offices.
(b) Any person who violates this section shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than one year, or both.”
Aliens (including illegals) can’t legally vote in elections for federal office under 18 USC § 611. 14th Amdt requires reduction of counts, corresponding to the number in a state who cannot vote, in determining apportionment. Illegals cannot legally vote, so essentially cannot be counted for apportionment (essentially, because the formula is a bit more complex).
"is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States"
As I read this, apportionment is only reduced if the people ineligible to vote are US citizens. The people Trump wants to exclude are not.
“or in any way abridged, ”
Under what construction does abridged apply to a different set of people from denied?
aliens (legal and illegal) are not citizens of the United State, as required in the 'being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States' bit. So you're barking up the wrong tree.
It means exactly neither of those things.
The 14th amendment says "But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."
IOW, it means black people: if you don't let them vote, you don't get to count them for representation.
Does the Census currently count tourists who happen to be in the US or on a merchant or cruise ship docked at a US port at the "magic moment" that the enumeration is supposed to reflect?
What about foreign diplomats on US soil?
What about leaders (or the country's equivalent of Vice President) of foreign countries who happen to be in the US at the "magic moment" because they are attending the funeral of a sitting (until they died) US President?
What about if Mexico in a Putinesque move were to launch an attack on the US to reclaim parts of what is now the US but that Mexico controlled at one point? Suppose they were successful for at least a while that happened to correspond to the Census "magic moment". Would the members of the Mexican army/navy/coast guard/whatever who were on US soil at that moment be counted just as a natural born citizen of the US would be?
In all cases these individuals were "people" and, per the argument presented, should be counted in the census.
Were such possibilities discussed/written about in the founding era with respect to the enumeration requirements?
It is hard for me to accept that the intent of the Founders language or the writers of 14th Amendment was such that they would have agreed that any State could allow very large numbers of temporary residents to inhabit their State for the purpose of affecting apportionment.
This would mean a state like Georgia could have invited 100’s of thousands of persons, say foreign soldiers, to visit Georgia temporarily in order to affect apportionment. It is impossible to think that the Founders language was intended to allow this.
Soldiers are a bad example because the Federal government could stop such soldiers which, you know, it's army. But if we consider a general case of 'invite thousands of non citizen foreigners'... I think they meant exactly that. There was no Founder era Federal immigration control remember. If a state wanted people to move in, they could. More tellingly, slave states could *literally buy people* from a foreign country as slaves who then counted for three-fifths of a person and not only was this legal, the Federal government was categorically banned for outlawing such international purchases before 1808.