Wednesday Open Thread

What's on your mind?

Comments

[Stephen Lathrop]

Is Harvard being properly pragmatic, or caving to Trump? I understand turning over legally required employment eligibility information. I do not yet understand what to make of a proposed $500 million settlement—except to suspect it will not buy Harvard safety from further demands, no matter what terms go into a contract.

[Lee Moore]

What I make of it is that $500 million is only a few million more than Judge Engoron’s shakedown of Trump. And Harvard has a yuugely larger endowment than Trump.

So if you want to get up some steam about $500 million shakedowns try this one - it’s been nearly a year since Trump’s appeal was heard and no decision yet.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Lee Moore, which point do you intend:

1. Trump's criminal convictions entitle him to shake down Harvard, or;
2. Whatabout, Whatabout, Whatabout.

[hobie]

I'm not bothered much. President Buttigeig will use all these new executive powers to crush any and all institutions that have discriminated against gay people and children. Balance will be restored, and the great thing about it is that all the hayseeds will be as happy about it as they are now, or else they risk looking hypocritical.

[damikesc]

President Transportation Secretary So Inept That People Knew Who the Transportation Secretary Was?

That guy?

Duffy is a MASSIVE improvement over that imbecile.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Blacks won't vote for ButtPlug.
No Dem can be elected POTUS without at least 70-80% of the Black vote.

[David Nieporent]

When I want to know what black people are thinking, the first person I turn to is Frederick Douglas, because he is an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more. But the second person I look to is Dr. Ed.

[Frank Drackman]

what's Booty-Judge going to be President of, NAMBLA??

[hobie]

Pete's gay, so he's a pedophile, eh?

[LexAquilia]

The data say what the data say.

Be an empiricist instead of a blind idealogue. It's a better way to live.

[not guilty]

Automatically conflating sexual orientation and pederasty is reprehensible.

[Lee Moore]

Er well

1. Pederasty means sexual relations between a man and a boy. You can be a homosexual without being a pederast, but not the other way round.

2. If you meant pedophile, then that is a type of sexual orientation.

[shawn_dude]

This simply isn't true. Straight men commit pederasty also. In ancient Greece, where pederasty was socially practiced, the adult men might also would have wives and children. The young boys used for sex were not necessarily romantic relationships nor were they seen as equal. And as the boys aged into men, they would leave that role and seek a wife.

[Lee Moore]

As and when straight men commit pederasty with boys, I think you will find that the activity is homosexual.

In those dark evil days when homosexual men were subject to the criminal law, they were not criminalised for having homosexual desires, but for homosexual acts. And if the occasional straight man got caught at it, the claim that he was just doing it for a bet would not have saved him from the court's wrath.

In any event I think you need to be very careful about denting the notion that homosexuality is, at least in part, a practice significantly influenced by social circumstances. It interferes with the theory that it is an immutable condition.

[LexAquilia]

1in6.org

1 in 6 boys is the victim of sexual assault.

What's the ratio of adult homosexuals to the rest of the population? Do you know?

[Frank Drackman]

ask his adopted children

[hobie]

Oh? Did someone see Pete molesting them? These are strong accusations to make unsubstantiated, Frankie.

[Mr. Bumble]

I guess you have no self awareness when complaining about unsubstantiated accusations.

[Lee Moore]

3. You just gave me a hook on which to hang my reminder of the ridiculous and nakedly political delay in the announcement of the appeal court's reversal of Judge Engoron's shakedown. Which may even be intended to wait out the retirement of one of the judges, so as to reverse the result.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

It's an interesting topic, but it certainly isn't a reply to the comment about Harvard's settlement. "Don't look there, look over here instead" seems to me the most common 'defense' for the Trump administration here.

[Lee Moore]

I appreciate your point of view.

My point of view is that Mr Lathrop's post exudes deep deep concern about the shaking down of Harvard, as to (a) the injustice of it and (b) as to the size of it. Not to mention (c) - the fear that there may be another shakedown coming.

My point is not that Mr Lathrop should not be exuding at least some concern, but that he lacks a sense of proportion, since the shakedown of Trump is at least ten times as unjust, not least because of the outrageous and nakedly political delay in the NY courts, and at least ten times as big, in terms of relative hit to total wealth. And of course the Engoron shakedown is not the only multimillion dollar shakedown the NY courts have imposed on the Orange One. Lathrop's fears of repeated shakedowns have already been made flesh in the Trump case.

In short, Mr Lathrop is straining at gnats and swallowing camels. That's seems to me a reasonable comment on his comment.

[Joe_dallas]

lathrop - Judge engoron heard the trump civil case, not a criminal case. Lee Moore's comment calling the case a shakedown is a reasonable assessment of the case. The NY fraud statute that got trump doesnt require a victim, doesnt require relience on the fraud, doesnt as I recall loss to be incurred by the victim, all key elements of fraud. Yet not required by the NY statutes?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Are you claiming that the NY fraud statute itself is a "shakedown"? It is what it is--and what it is is New York law.

Were NY elected officials supposed to ignore it?

[Joe_dallas]

A fraud statute that doesnt require relience, doesnt require a victim and doesnt require a loss, all of which are key elements of fraud should be enforced?

[David Nieporent]

It certainly shouldn't be applied differently to Trump than to everyone else.

[Mr. Bumble]

So Lucretia James should be prosecuted?

[David Nieporent]

For?

[Riva]

As someone once wrote, the law “certainly shouldn't be applied differently to Trump than to everyone else.” There are a variety of ways, both civil and criminally, that James could be held liable for abusing the powers of her office to maliciously target President Trump. And let’s add disbarment and removal from office to that list.

[Mr. Bumble]

" FBI opens formal criminal probe into New York AG Letitia James over alleged mortgage fraud"

[David Nieporent]

So… the FBI is opening an investigation, and you think this means she should be prosecuted? Also, not sure what that has to do with the discussion about Executive Law § 63(12).

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Common law fraud has certain elements, yes, but we're (and you're) talking about a particular New York State civil statute enacted by the state legislature to effect a different, fraud-related public purpose.

Are you denying that the NY State legislature has the police power to enact such an anti-fraud statute? On what grounds?

[Joe_dallas]

Tell us why NY should be enforcing a "fraud " statute that doesnt require relience on the fraud, where the victim suffers no loss and the two parties are both sophisticated financial individuals. Give us a logical coherent reason.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I don't see any need to second-guess the NY State legislature on this. I'm happy to assume they had good reason to enact that particular law. IIRC, it was not enacted to "get Trump" or any particular individual, but had been originally enacted in 1956:

"Jacob Javits, then the Attorney General of the State of New York (the position that Attorney General James now occupies), pushed for the bill, as did the Better Business Bureau of New York City. See Senate Bill Jacket, February 21, 1956. State Comptroller Arthur Levitt asked, “Why not grant the Attorney General authority to enjoin anyone from continuing in a business activity if such person has been guilty of frequent fraudulent dealings.” The preponderance of the evidence standard, the one used in almost all civil cases would apply. Comptroller Levitt noted: “In a suit for an injunction, there is no need to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt, as in a criminal case—a mere preponderance of evidence would be sufficient.” Id. In the subsequent six decades, the State has toughened the statute. In Laws of 1965, Chapter 666, the definitions of the words “fraud” and “fraudulent” were expanded to include “any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, false pretence [sic], false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions.” The statute casts a wide net."

Guess where I found that?

[Joe_dallas]

key elements of fraud includes a 1) victim, 2) A victim incurring a loss 3) relience on the fraud by the victim. All Three of those three key elements are missing.

so what was the fraudulent practices ? None of the elements exist

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You keep describing common law fraud... Yes, we are all aware of common law fraud. Including Judge Engoron, who wrote the following immediately before turning to the actual NY statute under which the NY AG sued the Trump Organization:

"Common law fraud (also known as “misrepresentation”) has five elements: (1) A material statement; (2) falsity; (3) knowledge of the falsity (“scienter”); (4) justifiable reliance; and (5) damages. See, e.g., Kerusa Co. LLC v W10Z/515 Real Estate Ltd. Partnership, 12 NY3d 236, 242 (2009) (“[T]he elements of common law fraud” are “a false representation . . . in relation to a material fact; scienter; reliance; and injury.”). Alleging the elements is easy; proving them is difficult. Is the statement one of fact or opinion? Material according to what standard? Knowledge demonstrated how? Justifiable subjectively or objectively? In mid-twentieth century New York, to judge by contemporary press reports and judicial opinions, fraudsters were having a field day."

"Along came Executive Law § 63(12), which began life as Laws of 1956, Chapter 592, “An act to amend the executive law, in relation to cancellation of registration of doing business under an assumed name or as partners for repeated fraudulent or illegal acts.”"

You do understand that it was Executive Law § 63(12) under which Trump was sued by the AG, not common law fraud, right?

[bernard11]

1. What does one have to do with the other?

2. Trump's fine was a result of an actual trial which found that he committed civil fraud. Harvard's settlement is based on nothing but anti-intellectual animus, and was imposed by one vicious fool.

3. Trump gets to appeal his.

[damikesc]

The appeal hearing was a year ago. They are slow-walking this.

Mamdani cannot kill that festering shithole NYC fast enough.

[bernard11]

You don't like NYC, don't go there.

Problem solved.

BTW, NYC has one of the lowest homicide rates of American cities, lower than that of most of the Confederate states.

[David Nieporent]

The appeal hearing was a year ago. They are slow-walking this.

Tell us more about your experience with the normal speed of the Appellate Division.

[Commenter_XY]

HU needs to stop the rampant anti-semitism and discrimination on their campus. The money is immaterial; a pittance for HU.

I think they will be doing far less gov't funded research for the next 42 months. It is the strings that will remain firmly attached (and easily yank-able) to HU that matter.

[bernard11]

I think they will be doing far less gov't funded research for the next 42 months. It is the strings that will remain firmly attached (and easily yank-able) to HU that matter.

Yes. Let's not have any of that nasty research that Trump and MAGA hate. Leave it to the Chinese, and send the researchers out to pick crops.

That's XY's opinion, anyway.

[damikesc]

If high-level researchers want to deal with China's over-arching control over them, they can knock themselves out.

I just do not want to hear a peep about "onerous regulations" on research in the USA ever again.

[bernard11]

China doesn't need to increase its research capabilities since we are decimating our own.

And there are other countries, some of whom are making efforts to attract US scientists.

[myself]

Still amused that this is the line coming from the administration that had someone giving a NAZI salute during the inauguration.

[damikesc]

Multiple Democrats have given that salute this year.

Just sayin'.

Hint: If you're too much of a moron to know what a Nazi salute is, then you do not REALLY need to broadcast it.

[myself]

“Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”

[Martinned]

Nathan Warren had an article in the Dagens Næringsliv on Monday proposing an original solution:

Norge bør kjøpe Harvard
(...)
Norge bør gripe denne historiske muligheten ved å bruke oljefondet til å kjøpe Harvard, bygge et toppmoderne campus i nærheten av Oslo, og relokalisere store deler av fakultetet og studentmassen hit. Harvard passer perfekt med Oljefondets mål om etisk investering som fremmer økonomisk bærekraft, miljøansvar og sosial tilhørighet.

https://www.dn.no/innlegg/harvard/harvard-university/usa/norge-bor-kjope-harvard/2-1-1850046

[Frank Drackman]

if you read that with a Muppet's "Swedish Chef" accent it's really funny

[Armchair]

$500 million isn't that much to Harvard. It's less than just a single year worth of federal research grants to Harvard. (Unclear if that's before or after the 60-70% overhead that gets tacked on).

Imagine the lawsuit goes on a year. Harvard would lose more in research funding than the cost of this fine.

Moreover, the temporary halt in grants is having a real effect on Harvard's faculty. If faculty leave Harvard (taking their grants with them) then that has major long term effects on Harvard. It's not like there aren't other major schools in the Boston area. Imagine...Professor X has a lab, with 2 million a year in federal research funding...but just can't access the funding (because of Harvard).

He can shut down the lab, kick out all the graduate students and postdocs, fire the technical staff...for as long as it takes Harvard to finish it's lawsuit. Could be years. OR he can take MIT's offer to move a couple miles, and restart everything within a day or two of moving. And other universities love hiring professors who bring millions in research funding with them.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

An offer they can't refuse, you mean?

[Armchair]

He "can" refuse it. Just might not make sense.

[Sarcastr0]

MIT doesn't have additional research money. They're getting cuts too, just not specifically targeted.
They're not going to be able to poach entire labs from Harvard.

And that doesn't count the 15% indirect which is another push making it's way through the courts.

You know who has money? Other countries. Many have upped their investments to poach America's top talent. While we cut our research budget drastically.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you're just making things up so you can feel good about Trump wrecking this country's research infrastructure.

[Don Nico]

An don't forget the multi-hundred million tax bill on the endowment earnings that Harvard will have to pay every year

[Armchair]

An don't forget the multi-hundred million tax bill on the endowment earnings.

Can't say I feel too bad about that. They can afford to pay the same rate that all the rest of us pay on investment earnings.

[Sarcastr0]

Those rates were negotiated.

Now they are to down drastically reduced.

‘Oh it’s fine actually’ you say in casual ignorance.

You are a useful idiot in the death of America’s research leadership.

[Joe_dallas]

Sarcastr0 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
"Those rates were negotiated."

Rates negotiated with who?
Congress and Congress?

[Don Nico]

"You know who has money? Other countries. "
Not really unless S_0 means China.

[Armchair]

Indeed. And China comes with other strings on its research people that many people react poorly to.

[Sarcastr0]

So let’s add more string of our own?

China brain drain is already enough of a concern there are a new laws about it every year.
This admin is making it a much worse problem, and not specific to China.

Talking to PIs, we are going to lose out to the UK and NZ which is ridiculous.

[Bob from Ohio]

Hysterics.

Sorry your meal ticket might be in jeopardy.

[Commenter_XY]

El Vibrador worried about an American brain drain. What a dumbass. LMAO.

El Vibrador's concern is belied by the millions of illegal aliens that came here to his American dystopia. And there are no shortage of 'top talent' foreign exchange students trying to get here.

Make a better argument, dum dum.

[Sarcastr0]

Well this sure is a desperate subject change.

Fundamental research bears fruit decades from now.

I made factual assertions, not vibese opinion. Says a lot you can’t tell the difference.

[bernard11]

And there are no shortage of 'top talent' foreign exchange students trying to get here.

And being deterred by visa problems created by Trump, and less grant money.

We are losing researchers, XY, and you don't give a FF as long as Trump likes it. Yeah, let's just destroy American dominance because MAGAt's, including their cult hero, hate universities.

You are a moron cheering on destructive policies because you're enchanted by Donald Trump.

It's worse than disgraceful.

[Joe_dallas]

bernard11 2 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
You are a moron cheering on destructive policies because you're enchanted by Donald Trump.

Bernard - Curious why you have no condemnation of the University's policy (unofficial as it may be - ) with the destructive policies / excess tolerance of the discrimination and anti-semitism. Selective outrage perhaps.

[bernard11]

Joe,

I don't like antisemitic policies and practices. I think Harvard has some guilt there, and deserves criticism. It also needs to change that.

But:

I think the problems, such as they are, are vastly overblown by the right in order to attack an institution the dislike, and have disliked for decades.

I also doubt the sincerity of much RW outrage over antisemitism, since the right has its own issues. It looks more like a convenient cudgel than genuine concern.

Finally, the punishments are not only wildly excessive - an indicator that they are based mostly on simple animus toward the university - but are destructive of our research power, and intend to please only the ignoramuses in Trump's base, of whom there are many.

One anecdote. I have a friend who recently completed a Ph.D. in physics at a quite prestigious foreign institution. Looking for a post-doc he rejected several US opportunities out of concern for visas, grants, etc., and chose to go top Oxford instead. Just one example, of course, but a loss, and one that has no doubt been duplicated many times, no matter the gloating by fools.

[Armchair]

You miss the point, as normal. MIT isn't giving the professors additional research funding. They're coming with their own research funding.

[jb]

Seems like you miss the point. MIT already has their own researchers and isn't going to have more total funding (in fact, there will be less). So the only way they could poach someone from Harvard would be to drop one of their own.

On the other hand, other countries can actually increase the total they spend on research and hire folks away from the US.

[Don Nico]

Are you talking about European countries that are spending many billions every year to build a EU army.
The only country with the spending flexibility that you refer to is China.
Moreover, academic salaries in almost all EU countries are much lower than academic salaries in US R1 universities.

[Armchair]

JB,

You're still not quite getting it. MIT doesn't give grants to its researchers. Researchers apply for those grants from the government. Let's use an example.

1) Professor X applies and obtains an $1 Million NIH Grant. He works at Harvard. Legally, Harvard has the grant, but it can only be used on Professor X's work.

2) Professor X changes institutions to MIT.

3) Harvard cannot use the Grant without Professor X. They need to either return it to the government, or apply to transfer the grant to MIT. They almost always do the latter.

4) The net effect is that when Professor X moves from Harvard to MIT, Professor X takes $1 Million worth of federal funding with him.

4)

[Sarcastr0]

"apply to transfer the grant to MIT" is not a thing. With some notable exceptions, you cannot mod a grant like you can a contract.

You are speaking from ignorance.

[bernard11]

You are speaking from ignorance.

Big effing surprise.

[bernard11]

And what about the graduate students and postdocs working on the project and funded by the grant.

Let's make life hard for them, why don't we, because we hate Harvard.

We don't need those careers, after all.

[Sarcastr0]

Did you discover a magical money tree? Because otherwise this is remarkably thoughtless.

[Don Nico]

It is not automatic that a PI can take a grant elsewhere. Please remember that the grant is a contract between the government and the university, not with the PI.

[Armchair]

It's not automatic. It's extremely common (nearly always) however that the University transfers the grants for the PI to another institution if the PI leaves. I don't believe the University can actually use the grant money if the PI leaves (please correct me if I'm wrong).

If Harvard was to start banning the transfer of grants for PIs that left, it would greatly damage Harvard's reputation.

And with "this" administration, if Harvard decided to do such a thing, the administration may rewrite the grant rules such to allow faculty to move with the grant.

[Don Nico]

The other impediments are that the "take the money elsewhere" does not move the research infrastructure and universities are not growing faculties at a rate that matters.

[Armchair]

I think you'll find for many institutions that if a major researcher wants to come there, without startup funds, but with multiple RO1s...the University will "find a way" to make lab space available.

[Don Nico]

It is not just space. You obviously do not know the general costs and specifics of research infrastructures in Biosciences, chemistry, and physics. And no one is moving without big startup funds.

[Armchair]

"And no one is moving without big startup funds."

Normally..no.

In a case where they literally can't access their grant money because of Harvard's antisemitism issues, and if they do move, they can again?

I think you'd be surprised.

[Martinned]

"because of..." what?

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69921962/president-and-fellows-of-harvard-college-v-us-department-of-health-and/?order_by=desc

[Sarcastr0]

This is utterly untrue. With a few exceptions grants are made to the institution not the PI.

So if a PI leaves the usual is to see if the grant can be switched to an equivalent PI at the same institution.

Otherwise you generally need to cancel the grant. You can’t recompute in mid performance, and grant mods are not a thing like contract mods are.

You made this whole thing up.

[David Nieporent]

Granted all of this (no pun intended), I thought the whole point was that the feds would be cancelling the grants. So nobody is switching them to another PI or another institution either.

[Sarcastr0]

I have Don blocked, so I'm can only speak to Armchair's fiction.

[Armchair]

Explains a lot, like how you seem to keep responding to the wrong thing. You're only reading 1/2 the conversation.

[Armchair]

David,

That...wasn't actually the point. The point was the feds would be freezing the grants as a way to put pressure on a discriminatory institution to change its discriminatory ways.

If the person who applied for and obtained the grant was no longer there, and applied for the grant to move with them...then the feds are happy. Because it was the institution that was the problem.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

The real point should be: Did Congress grant the Executive the power to use grant money that way? Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely have no idea. But it would be less than shocking if the Trump administration is overstepping it's legal authority - again.

[Armchair]

In general, while grants are made to the institution, it is FOR the PI's work. It does not get transferred to an "equivalent" PI if the PI leaves. In general, there is a process by which it is transferred to the new institution. Here are the forms.

https://www.cancer.gov/grants-training/manage-award/grant-transfer#:~:text=Transfer%20of%20a%20Grant,-NIH%20prior%20approval&text=A%20change%20of%20recipient%20organization,IC's%20Advisory%20Council%20or%20Board.

Or Here's the process

https://www.med.unc.edu/spo/spo-knows/from-relinquishing-to-receiving-the-journey-of-an-nih-grant-transfer/

Again...reasonably common. Common enough there's a general process for it. You just don't have a clue. Like normal

[Sarcastr0]

You aren't reading closely.
First, there's a lot of red tape. Second the institution losing the PI must acquiesce.
That's a reason why this is rare.

Second, it needs to be done during the PoP. If you're talking about small grants, and below you say you are, then that's going to be about 2 years. Good luck with that.

Third, plenty of grants are not under the NIH terms and conditions.

I don't work at NIH, but I've *never* seen a switch of institution happen for non-sole PI grants across institutions.
I've seen it pre-announcement, but never once the selections were announced.

[Don Nico]

Although S_0 can't read it, here I must again with him. Yes, there are funds, yes it has been done, but it is not frequent and it is not do without a large cost to the receiving university.

[ducksalad]

The real situation is something in between and won't help anyone score a point in this argument.

1. Legally virtually all grants and contracts are to the university.

2. A few programs (e.g. NSF Career Award) invariably have sole PIs and are intended to be transferable. The university is forbidden to give it to a new PI.

3. Others (e.g. NSF MRI, DoD research infrastructure) are absolutely tied to the university and the university is not only allowed but expected to find a new PI if the original one(s) leave.

4. Practically most grants, especially large important ones, have multiple PIs and therefore there's an immediate problem when one quits and others stay. It's a very common situation that I've seen a couple dozen times. Generally if the remaining PIs are willing to continue the grant stays with the university. Sometimes if it's an amicable departure the old university will try to subcontract part of it to the departing PIs new university, but that depends on a lot of things falling into place and everyone playing ball.

5. Super rare (at least prior to 2025) for the money to get clawed back to the agency. Everyone involved including the agency wants to avoid that.

[Armchair]

1. True.
2. True.
3. True....but these are pretty uncommon.

4. "Practically most grants have multiple PIs." No. Most of Harvard's grants are NIH grants. Those are publically available. https://reporter.nih.gov/ You can search by institution and fiscal year. Look it up.

You'll find most grants are single PI grants. Yes, some very large (>$1 Million a year grants) are multi-PI institutional-type grants. But most of the R01, R35s...tend to be single PI grants. Sometimes you'll get dual PI grants. These tend to run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year range, over multiple years. As single PI grants, these typically have the PI as critical personnel. Which means if the PI leaves...the critical personnel to handle the grant has left, and the money can't be spent. So it is common for these grants to move with the PI.

Yes, there's a process for it. But it's reasonably common. Keeping a single PI grant at the institute when the PI leaves is extremely uncommon, and generally considered a poor move. https://www.cancer.gov/grants-training/manage-award/grant-transfer

[Sarcastr0]

Research infrastructure grants are pretty uncommon?!

[bernard11]

How do you claim to know all this? Are you a university researcher, or do you work for grant-giving institution.

I think you are making shit up -not uncommon for you - or copying it from some other ignoramus.

[ducksalad]

I think you're very wrong on (3), but maybe it's my fault for using PI loosely. Most grants, including NIH grants, don't have a sole PI but they do have one person designated as "the PI", with several others listed in the weeds proposal as "co-PIs" or "senior personnel". There is one PI so the funding agency has one designated person as point of contact and supposedly in charge. But the co-PIs are listed in the proposal, are getting credit for the work, are at least ostensibly qualified to be in charge of research, and are all potential candidates to take over if the PI quits, dies, gets fired, sets the controls wrong on the time machine, etc.

It's literally something that happens maybe a dozen times a year at a big university. I've taken over for a departing PI on two different grants myself.

[Armchair]

As I mentioned...look it up.

Here's the FY 2024 Grants to Harvard University.

https://reporter.nih.gov/search/OIrI1M6R9E6sitjM5hjxdw/projects?fy=2024&org=HARVARD%20UNIVERSITY

The first one listed is a K99. That's a single PI grant (really, it's a training road to independence grant). It's not getting transferred to a different PI.
The second listed is a sole-PI RO1, with no other PIs listed. That's going to stick with the PI. If Arlotta moves, Harvard can't assign it to a different PI.
The third is a U01. That's a multi-center grant. That's more in line with what you're talking about.
The 4th is another R01 to Arlotta. Again, it's going to move with her. Or go back to the government.

If you want an example of these grants moving with an individual, take a look at Nobel Prize winner Carolyn Bertozzi. Historically, she moved from UC Berkeley to Stanford in 2015. Take a look at grant R01 GM059907. You'll notice it just transfers from Berkeley to Stanford as the year goes from 2014 to 2015. This really is how it generally works.

If you're talking about big, multi-center grants with major levels of control from the government side...sure, it tends to work like you say. But if you're talking about the types of grants that tend to run sole-PI labs...they tend to move with the PI. There's paperwork, sure to move them. But I've provided the evidence here.

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, an R0 would follow the investigator. That's something they're known for because it's not common!

I am also unable to reproduce your order of which grants programs appear when I click on your link.
I get 2 P30s: "Center Core Grants (P30) support shared resources and facilities for use by multiple investigators to enhance multidisciplinary approaches and collaborative research efforts focused on a common research problem or goal."

I'm not an NIH guy, but that looks like infrastructure.

Then a T32 training grant
And then another P30.

And you're doing a disservice by flyspecking and not looking at the total population of each grant type - that is ho you get useful information.
As it is, I have no idea if there's a bunch of infrastructure grants hiding due to some sorting issue.

And you're specific to NIH and generalizing about grants generally. Maybe like DoD of NIST gives out a ton of infrastructure grants to universities.

I don't know if you're using AI or what but you're failing some some basics of the practice. Like a just out of law school student starting practice and needing to learn the real ropes.

[Armchair]

Sarcastr0 Before: "So if a PI leaves the usual is to see if the grant can be switched to an equivalent PI at the same institution.
Otherwise you generally need to cancel the grant. You can’t recompute in mid performance, and grant mods are not a thing like contract mods are."

Sarcastr0 now: "Yes, an R0 would follow the investigator."

Just talking out both sides. You've said one true thing: "I have no idea". Which is the truth. Because you don't. And have provided no evidence to back up any of your broad assertions.

[Sarcastr0]

I said generally and I meant generally.
R0 is an exception. Most research funding agencies have 1 exception.

Grants are part of my job. I’m not alone in telling you you’re missing stuff.

[Armchair]

An I'm telling you, you're clueless. You do not know what you're talking about.

It's an R01. Not an R0. Common knowledge, for those who actually know what they're talking about. Or anyone who can Google. An R01 brings up the actual grants. And R0 brings up nothing.

I encourage everyone here to simply google R0 versus R01.

[Sarcastr0]

First, pedantry is obvious to everyone and will get you nowhere. I said NIH isn't my biz, but research grants are.

Second, you have had not just me but ducksalad, bernard, and jb telling you that your take differed in salient ways from their understanding.

Bottom line - your thesis is that Trump's targeted cuts aren't a big deal to the research enterprise.
No one actually conversant with that enterprise would say that. If you talked to any scientists, or any program managers, they will tell you what's going on is seismic.

I don't know if you did an AI dive or what, but your baseline thesis itself discredits your claim of personal expertise.

[Bwaaah]

Good argument, Armchair. With Sarc opening by saying you don't know what you're talking about, you successfully showed that he's weak even in his supposed core area of competence.

[Don Nico]

And yes, Standford would put out a very large amount of Stanford money to steal a Nobelist from UC Berkeley.
But these are not common. You're talking through your hat.

[M L]

I'm not up to speed on this - but, if the Trump administration is getting $500 million from Harvard and other settlements like this, they should channel those funds into "far right" advocacy organizations like Obama did with settlements going to far left organizations.

[Krayt]

Is Harvard being properly pragmatic, or caving to Trump?

It's all about the money, ever since the Dear Colleagues letter. Right down to current examples like this or Colbert.

Some clueless-oid earlier this year noted the caving of corporations to Trump was just them following their bottom line, not recognizing the other way was the same thing.

Just hire clever patter-iticians to bleat what good guys you are, then you get power, then your bank accounts skyrocket as business kowtows, uhhh, to your angelic righteousness getting in the way.

[Bwaaah]

"Dear Colleagues."

That cringe-worthy salutation, from many of the same people who purport to warn us about "authoritarianism," as if it can't hide behind a thin veil of egalitarianism among throngs of mid-level, institutionally privileged minions.

No air of coercion there, friend. None.

[Sarcastr0]

How ultrasensitive are you for 'dear colleagues' to set you off?

[Bwaaah]

Yeah, right. I'm standing atop a building, thinking of jumping to my death because of that phrase. (As if the people who use it aren't a bunch of feckless zombies.)

How entrenched are you in the "Dear Colleagues" culture that you don't find it offensive?

And how "ultrasensitive" are you to my incidental opinion that you feel a need to comment? You reveal yourself, Sarc, and in so doing, you personify the problem.

[Kazinski]

Josh Hawley has proposed 600$ tariff rebate checks:

"Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) has introduced legislation to provide $600 tariff rebates to almost all Americans and to their dependent children, a proposal that would give a family of four $2,400."

Its a terrible idea and I doubt it will get any traction whatsoever ever. It won't get a single Democratic vote, and the Freedom Caucus in the House won't vote for it, nor will deficit hawks like Mike Lee or Rand Paul in the Senate.

And it probably won't qualify for reconciliation anyway.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5425288-hawley-tariff-rebates/

Hawley probably knows that but it sems he is competing with Cory Booker for futile attention seeking gestures thinking about the 2028 primaries.

[Commenter_XY]

Josh Hawley has the charisma of a week old, wet dishrag. Concur on futility.

[Frank Drackman]

and "45/47" had 34 Felony Convictions! No way he's getting erected

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

“Like President Trump proposed, my legislation would allow hard-working Americans to benefit from the wealth that Trump’s tariffs are returning to this country,” he said.

Wealth he is seeking to re-distribute from more-tariff paying Americans to less-tariff paying Americans, apparently.

Or, like Trump, does Genius Josh also think US import tariffs are paid by ferriners?

[Poxigah146]

No, tariffs are paid by the manufacturers, out of profits.

[jb]

LOL

[Stephen Lathrop]

ObviouslyNotSpam — Why assume progressive redistribution? It is perfectly possible—likely, I suppose—that the folks getting Hawley's sleight-of-hand refund would just be getting back a fraction of the money they lost personally to the tariffs. A Trumpian version of digging holes and filling them up, to improve the economy.

Except that Trump wants stuff like that in place to dupe ordinary people into approving massive confiscations from the poor to pay to the rich. Trump counts on ordinary Americans to stay suckers, who remain ill-informed about how the pieces of big bad extortion bills fit together.

And meanwhile, lawless tariffs give Trump power to extort personal wealth from supine foreign governments. If their own exporters lose export revenue because Americans can less-afford imports, that hurts foreign government officials. Some of them will be eager to avoid getting hurt politically by bribing Trump with money and property deals from their own nation's public resources. That can even be presented publicly to foreign exporters, as good pro-active policy to ameliorate losses Trump will otherwise impose upon them.

See, all you need is complete disregard for separation of powers— plus Supreme Court granted criminal impunity—to make the word, "tariff," the most beautiful thing ever.

[Lee Moore]

Or, like Trump, does Genius Josh also think US import tariffs are paid by ferriners?

Well they are - to some extent. Tariffs are paid by importers, who may or may not be furriners as the case may be. As to who bears the tax, that's a tricky question depending on all sorts of things. not excluding various elasticities.

But some of the tariff will be borne by :

US domestic consumers
US importers and distributors of foreign goods
Foreign producers of the foreign goods
Suppliers of said foreign producers including employees

and so on

On average you would expect some of the tariff to be borne by furriners, and some to be borne by Americans. While you would expect pretty much all of the revenues to accrue to Americans, give or take a bit of USAID style spendathons by the Dems (some of which will be circling back to Americans, by way of commish.)

However, who bears the cost of the tariff is less than half the question at issue, because there is more to life than taxes - like utility foregone by having economically efficient choices disrupted, reduced consumer surpluses and so on.

In short there's no simple answer. Other than - obviously - low taxes are better than high taxes.

[bernard11]

All that is true enough, but deceptive. In fact, tariffs are predominantly borne by American companies and consumers.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Overwhelmingly, in fact. All "US importers" are persons or companies based in the US, which is what makes them all "Americans", subject to US taxes (regardless of their possibly foreign parentage).

All of Trump's beautiful tariffs are therefore paid by "Americans". Such Americans may be able to pass the tariff tax on to others, possibly even to others who are not Americans (e.g., if they can somehow successfully require those non-Americans to lower the prices of the imported goods by more or less the same amount as the new Trump tariffs), but they will mainly be passing the new tax burden on to other Americans.

[Poxigah146]

So what? It's a good thing to be borne by big public companies who have already seen their profits skyrocket in recent years.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

The point being, of course, that far from the new import taxes being "paid by foreigners", they are in fact paid by Americans and others already participating in the US economy, and do not bring new money into the United States from abroad.

Trump's tariffs essentially rob Peter to pay Paul--not Pedro, Pierre or Petrus.

[Poxigah146]

The "Americans" it's paid by are the top 1%.

[ThePublius]

"Overwhelmingly, in fact. All "US importers" are persons or companies based in the US, which is what makes them all "Americans", subject to US taxes (regardless of their possibly foreign parentage)."

That is utter nonsense. You're redefining "Americans" to suit your narrative.

[Sarcastr0]

MAGA populism is unpopular untethered from Trump.

"This is not going to the Biden voters. This is going to Trump blue collar voters."

Terrible. No rambling to hide its naked contempt for Americans.

The GOP brand in generic ballots remains strong somehow, but this non transferability of the cult of personality is a bind.

[Commenter_XY]

More vibes, huh?

[Sarcastr0]

Oh, that quote? It's a direct quote from Hawley. I see how you'd think it was fiction. It's not.

https://www.rawstory.com/josh-hawley-2673782305/

Unlike your cheerleading, I do bring receipts.

[Commenter_XY]

Dumbass, I am the guy who said Hawley has the charisma of a week old wet dishrag.

Nobody gives a shit what Hawley actually thinks.

[Sarcastr0]

So you might say Hawley is an example of “ MAGA populism is unpopular untethered from Trump.”

[LexAquilia]

Remember when Biden went out there to address the nation with the White House colored red with armed Marines standing behind him menacingly while he declared 70M Americans a threat to democracy?

Everyone here does but Sarcastr0.

[Moderation4ever]

AN obviously better proposal would be for Congress to take back its responsibilities for tariffs and to eliminate most if not all of them.

[LexAquilia]

Reciprocal tariffs should never be eliminated.

[Moderation4ever]

Reciprocal tariffs should not exist. Countries should have agreement to promote the most open trade.

[Kazinski]

A humongous 8.7 earthquake hit Kamchatka peninsula in Russia yesterday. The Earthquake was a subduction earthquake where the Pacific plate is diving under the Okhotsk plate. The Ocean crust is mostly Basalt and Gabbro, and the Continents are lighter rock like Granite and sedimentary rocks, that float on the heavier oceanic crust when they meet.

That should be a big warning for the Pacific NW where the Juan De Fuca plate is being subsumed by the North American plate, and could possibly generate an earthquake that large.

It is worth noting though that Kamchatka is the most Volcanically active place on earth. I haven't actually been there but I did get a good look with my own eyes once when I flew over it about 10 years ago flying from Seattle to Shanghai. I saw one or two volcanoes smoking, but no actual erruptions. Although they did have 4 volcanoes all erupting at the same time.

That's a lot more activity than the Pacific NW that had St Helens in 1980, and Mt Lassen erupt around 1910.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Possibly, shorter time intervals portend less violent eruptions. Mt. St. Helens was a big eruption only in context of a short time-frame. Mt. Mazama has not done much for thousands of years, but its most recent major eruption made what St. Helens did look trivial. Not that it seemed trivial if you lived in Portland, as I did at the time.

[Kazinski]

I think for earthquakes and volcanos near subjecting plates like Kamchatka and Java the biggest factor is how fast the subducting plate is moving.

The North Pacific plate is moving about 3x (as much as 4" A year) as fast as the Juan De Fuca plate, and the Australian plate is moving under the Sunda plate a lot faster too. That's a lot of energy and its got to go somewhere.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Kazinski — You also get eruptions—from small and nearly-continuous, to gigantic—from stable hot spots, over which the plates move while the hot spots remain. The Hawaiian chain and Yellowstone example those kinds of phenomena. Both have left long trails like wakes of now-cooled previous eruptive outpourings across the interiors of moving plates. Yellowstone has an ancient history of gigantic eruptions at long intervals as well. It might be mistaken to suppose those are done with. If another were to occur, the American plains region at least would be geologically transformed.

[Commenter_XY]

Emil Bove confirmed to 3rd Circuit last evening. How (if at all) does the balance of that circuit change?

[Kazinski]

According to Wikipedia its a 2-3-5-3 split (W Bush-Obama-Trump-Biden), so pretty even with the 2 Bush judges holding the balance of power if the go en banc.

[hobie]

W's judges are from the before times, so they're practically liberal here and now

[Kazinski]

It depends, for instance Roberts and Alito are both W's picks, and not all that similar in outlook and temperament.

[tylertusta]

W's circuit picks were from a time where there still were "state" circuit seats that included blue slips. That doesn't necessarily make W's picks liberal or conservative, just that a small number of Senators had outsized influence in which nominees would be permitted to make it to a floor vote.

[SRG2]

GOP senators showing themselves to be a bunch of cowards, afraid of offending their daddy and his hordes of screaming morons.

[Joe_dallas]

SRG2 29 minutes ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
"GOP senators showing themselves to be a bunch of cowards, afraid of offending their daddy and his hordes of screaming morons."

As opposed to Dem senators who vote lockstop with their dear leader?

[Krayt]

"Well, Rs judges apply motivated reasoning!«

As opposed to...?

"Well, our guys are the good guys who rule the right way!"

As opposed to...?

Well, we feel we're the good people!

As opposed to...?

This all gets so tiring.

[ducksalad]

Who do you think is the current dear leader?

[David Nieporent]

As opposed to Dem senators who vote lockstop with their dear leader?

Yes. (Indeed, note that this seat was open for Trump to fill because some Democrats wouldn't support Biden's nominee.) Also, who on earth do you think the Democratic "dear leader" would be?

[Bob from Ohio]

"lso, who on earth do you think the Democratic "dear leader" would be?"

Whomever the Democratic president making the nominations is.

You guys act like no Senate ever rubber stamped 99% of their party's nominations before.

[John F. Carr]

...by a 50-49 vote. I thought McConnell might have voted no, but he went along with Trump this time.

[Poxigah146]

I don't particularly like Bove, but the fact that it infuriates the Democrats makes it a win in my book.

[hobie]

I see that the Great Pumpkin and MTG have given you hayseeds your new marching orders: acknowledge the humanity of Gazans (or at least their children). I'm sure that must be galling. So today let's see you rubes discussing how to get them kiddos fed without using them as mass target practice.

[Commenter_XY]

Want to feed the poor gazans, who eagerly and fully support hamas?

Help Israel kill every hamas member in gaza.

[hobie]

Sort of like: 'Hand over the Hamas or the kid gets it!' Almost sounds like you boys have your own hostage situation. I thought you didn't like that kind of stuff.

[Kazinski]

How did the allies handle Germany after WW2?

Look up "Denazification" (https://www.google.com/search?q=denazification&oq=Denazification&).

De-Hamas-izing seems a reasonable goal. Do you think we would have just let bygones be bygones if Goebbels and Goring were still at large and running even a very depleted Nazi party in Germany, even after they were thoroughly beaten?

[Michael P]

More recently, there was de-Ba'ath-ification in Iraq and Syria after their respective repressive regimes fell.

[Martinned]

Gee, that was a great success. No wonder Iraq and Syria have been so peaceful and well-governed ever since!

[Michael P]

Martinned probably really is shocked that shithole countries remain shithole countries. ("Shithole" being convenient shorthand for high corruption, low capability to deliver public services, and no trajectory of positive economic development.)

[hobie]

Too bad we don't characterize shithole states as well.

[Krayt]

Or cities.

[Michael P]

We can and do. They're places like New Jersey, New York (especially the city) and California, which burned down hundreds of thousands of homes and now wants to redistribute land after refusing to approve rebuilding those homes.

[Martinned]

LOL. Most people who had leading positions in the Nazi regime died peacefully in their beds, often after having served the post-war government in prestigious positions.

Ernst Von Weizsäcker, the father of the later German president Richard Von Weizsäcker, was Ribbentropp's number 2 in the Nazi foreign ministry. He stood trial in Nuremberg, served 3 years and 3 months in prison, and was buried in his SS uniform when he died in 1951.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_von_Weizs%C3%A4cker#Postwar

Or Heinz Guderian, the famous commander of the German tank corps in the Battle of Dunkirk, who served as the Chief of the General Staff of the German Army High Command from July 1944 to March 1945. He was protected by the Americans until his release from internment in 1948 (the Soviets wanted his head on a pike for his war crimes during the invasion of their country). He consulted with the West-German defence ministry and died peacefully in his bed in 1954.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian#Later_life_and_death

There was no meaningful denazification.

[Michael P]

What political office or other position of influence over German society did either of your examples hold before they died?

Your best examples are a guy who was compassionately released from prison just months before he died, and a guy who testified against other Nazis in exchange for six years of post-internment life. Do you think the only "meaningful denazification" involves lining them up against a wall to be shot?

[Joe_dallas]

Martineed - Do you think the german transition to a peacefull prosperous country would have happened so quickly if the Allies had killed all the Nazi's

[bernard11]

How about not letting a bunch of them escape to Argentina, sometimes with the help of the US and the Vatican.

How much good do you claim Eichmann and Mengele, for example, did Germany from South America?

So yeah, a lot of them should have been lined up and shot, certainly SS members and Wehrmacht generals. War criminals and mass murderers to a man.

[David Nieporent]

Argentina

Argentina? How about America? In light of the recent passing of Tom Lehrer, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Wernher von Braun and Operation Paperclip.

[Bob from Ohio]

"There was no meaningful denazification."

Yes, we shamefully let many actual war criminals get little or no punishment. Fortunately, Germany has been trying 95 year old typists to make up for it!

Our mistake was our over-legalization. We should have just shot every SS officer and Wehrmacht general for starters.

[bernard11]

We agree.

[Martinned]

Our mistake was our over-legalization. We should have just shot every SS officer and Wehrmacht general for starters.

Given your views, that may not be a precedent you'd want to set.

The way to end Nazi shit is to stop doing Nazi shit. And part of not doing Nazi shit is not summarily executing people.

[bernard11]

They certainly were entitled to trials, and if they could refute the evidence that they were accomplices to mass murder or murderers and war criminals themselves then they could go free.

Tough to refute, even having killed lots of witnesses.

What, Martinned, do you think would have been appropriate punishment?

[Josh R]

De-Hamas-izing sounds great. But first, the war has to end. And it appears there is no prospect of Israel winning the war without violating international humanitarian law (which it probably has already done with only moderate effect on Hamas and the suffering of civilians).

But, let's imagine the war ends. Any plan for De-Hamas-izing better involve a lasting political solution to both Gaza and the West Bank. As of now, Netanyahu and his coalition partners Smotrich and BenGvir have only annexation and ethic cleansing in mind. That's a recipe for Israel to be a well-justified pariah state.

[damikesc]

The Jordanians living in Gaza have proven thoroughly incapable of self-governance. It is why the entire Arab world loathes them also.

[Commenter_XY]

What you see in gaza is a whole of society effort; gazan society is sick. They preach Judeocide from cradle to grave, and tell you gladly (every night on Al-Jazeera) they want to kill every Jew on the planet.

Talk to the Judeocidal gazan parents about their deliberately starving their own children for a sick cause (Judeocide) and a Judeocidal terror group (hamas).

[Sarcastr0]

“ deliberately starving their own children”

Listen to yourself.

[Commenter_XY]

What do you call it, dumbass? Honorable resistance?

The gazans made their choice; Judeocide. They fully supported hamas in their attack on Israel 10/7/2023. They fully support them now. So yes, dumbass, they are deliberately starving their own children. This war can end today with the release of hostages.

The conflict will ultimately end when palestinians love their children more than they love Judeocide.

You and hobie (Arthur) and martinned are all made for each other.

[Sarcastr0]

Feel free to live in your fantasy world.

[Josh R]

Israel has so far been unable to defeat Hamas. Should any means be available to Israel even if it violates international humanitarian law? What should the post-war political status of Gaza be?

[Mr. Bumble]

"What should the post-war political status of Gaza be?"
A French/English protectorate.

[damikesc]

Well, Gaza is about to be rewarded by numerous states for...violating international humanitarian law.

Israel should do the same.

[David Nieporent]

They fully supported hamas in their attack on Israel 10/7/2023.

[Citation needed.]

They fully support them now.

[Citation needed.]

[Martinned]

Never mind that, I'm disgusted by the notion that two million people deserve to be starved to death because they have the wrong opinion. (Or because their parents do, because the Israelis are starving babies too.)

[damikesc]

The opinion of "kill all Jews" should not be rewarded. But progressives seem to desperately want to do so.

[Joe_dallas]

The Gaza population is not being starved to death. Its a complete fabrication. Its astonishing that you not only believe it, but repeat the falsehood

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/gaza-starvation-photos-tell-a-thousand-lies-palestine-israel-aid-1d689cc8

[Martinned]

I'd be happy to withdraw my comment as soon as independent journalism is once again possible in Gaza to verify relevant facts. So far, Israel didn't even allow people to film from a plane that flew over Gaza, and they certainly aren't letting journalists into Gaza. I wonder why that is?

[Joe_dallas]

martin - your statement , like most every statement you have made regarding the israeli hamas war is completely false

You are not even trying to be honest and objective

[hobie]

Although I have no kids of my own, I now live surrounded by black children. I have noticed that around nine or younger, these little kids are the most curious, sweetest and most trusting things. They don't know yet that they are supposed to hate my white ass. But that will eventually come. Until then I consider them innocents. Your beef with the parents of Gaza shouldn't extend to their starving children. See if you can try and compartmentalize your hate.

[Commenter_XY]

Feel free to live in your fantasy world. Back here on planet Earth, we have a very sick society, gaza, whose desire to kill Jews outweighs their desire to feed their own children.

The best thing that could happen to the gazan people is to leave behind their Judeocidal beliefs. And of course, release the hostages.

[damikesc]

The Jordanians who live in Gaza could simply decide to love their children more than they hate Jews. But they won't.

[Commenter_XY]

That is correct. They won't. So they will be defeated, and then exiled back to the shithole known as Jordan. Or Uganda.

[Martinned]

Or Madagascar

[hobie]

Howsabout while we're deprogramming the adults, we slip them kids some food, eh?

[Frank Drackman]

I'm sure you'd "slip" them something but it wouldn't be food. Do you dress up like a Clown and perform at children's parties??

[damikesc]

Seems really odd how Hamas members are NOT starving.

Weird.

[Martinned]

Cite

[damikesc]

I guess SEEING them is not enough for you, eh?

[Martinned]

@damikesc: As far as I know neither of us is in Gaza right now. I'm certainly not. So no, I haven't seen any Hamas members for a while.

[Michael P]

UNRWA and Hamas start teaching Gazans to hate in elementary school. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sjxi7lflgl

[Martinned]

Leaving to one side that bullshit anti-UN propaganda:

Your idea is that the Palestinians would greet the Israelis who starve them, shoot at them, and steal their land with hugs and cuddles if it wasn't for the evil Hamas?

[damikesc]

Israelis are the only ones who have ever tried to take care of them.

Israel should show them what their fears are actually like. Israel should put them under siege. Cut off their power. Cut off their water. Seal their borders from aid. Let the UN try and break it, which they cannot.

[Martinned]

Israel should put them under siege. Cut off their power. Cut off their water. Seal their borders from aid.

You must be joking. That's literally what Israel has been doing for a year and a half now.

[Joe_dallas]

matinned - you keep repeating the falsehood of Israeli's starving the gaza population. Its pure BS.

[Brett Bellmore]

"and tell you gladly (every night on Al-Jazeera) they want to kill every Jew on the planet."

That's a common mistake. Actually they want to kill everyone on the planet who's not a member of their own sect of Islam, the Jews are just at the top of the list.

[hobie]

Sounds like the modus operandi of many religions and their followers. So why do we single out Palestinians for their bigotry?

[Frank Drackman]

"We're" not, the Israelis are, and funny how none of this was happening on October 6, 2023

[Mr. Bumble]

Other than Islam, what religions might you be talking about?

[Michael P]

He's probably talking about his own religion, leftism.

[Commenter_XY]

I cannot disagree with that = Actually they want to kill everyone on the planet who's not a member of their own sect of Islam, the Jews are just at the top of the list.

I figure Arthur-hobie and El Vibrador get waxed by hamas/gazans, after me. Screw that.

[Sarcastr0]

'Hamas/Gazans' is straight rationalizing extermination of everyone in Gaza.
I know you're beyond shame, but I still want to call it out.

[hobie]

I don't think anyone else here has displayed such a steep decline into MAGA madness than XY. Most of the crazies came and stayed crazy. And most of the semi-rationals came and stayed semi-rational. But XY...wow

[David Nieporent]

What you see in gaza

You've spent a lot of time there lately?

tell you gladly (every night on Al-Jazeera)

You watch Al-Jazeera every night?

deliberately starving their own children

You mean, they have food, and they're just refusing to let their kids eat it? That sounds pretty awful, yeah. Do you have some evidence for that?

[not guilty]

XY, does your tribe's concern about genocide extend only to that of your own kind?

[Commenter_XY]

Nope. NG, every living human being is created in the image of our Living God. All of them. The gazans made their choice (at the ballot box, to boot). The testimony of the released Israeli (and other) hostages speaks for itself.

This is a war hamas initiated on 10/7/23 with broad support in gaza (which remains today). In every war, there is a winner and a loser. It is pretty easy to identify the losers here.

[Riva]

Tribe? I bet you're just itching to write "Zionist"

[Joe_dallas]

not guilty 20 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
XY, does your tribe's concern about genocide extend only to that of your own kind?"

NG - do you have no shame for repeating a lie. There is no genocide happening in Gaza. Its complete BS. Why repeat pure BS?

[Martinned]

Wishful thinking is a powerful drug...

[Joe_dallas]

Dishonesty dominates leftists beliefs

[Martinned]

Don't worry. Tomorrow Trump will talk to Netanyahu or someone like that and forget all about the Palestinians.

Also troubling: He said they looked pretty hungry "on TV" (meaning Fox News, presumably). Is that really the only way the president gets information about Gaza? You'd think that he would have better information than that.

[hobie]

Clearly Fox needs to further curate the diet they feed Trump and the rubes. It's starting to hotwire their repressed compassion gene.

[Swede425]

Nobody's "compassion gene" extends to those who want them dead.
That's your retardation gene.

[Kazinski]

David Bernstein points out we had the Japanese beat at the end of WW2 also, but we still nuked them until they formally surrendered, because while there was no chance they could beat us, they were still dangerous.

Usually you when you lose a war you surrender to make it stop and get fed.

[Martinned]

...and then we changed the laws of war (and peace). When will you people stop talking about World War II? You might as well say that your ancestors murdered all the indigenous Americans, and that it is therefore OK for the Israelis to murder all the Palestinians. Sometimes we conclude that something we did was wrong, and we make laws to forbid it going forwards.

https://www.icrc.org/en/law-and-policy/geneva-conventions-and-their-commentaries

[Michael P]

So when are you going to admit that you have been wrong?

[hobie]

Martin, you being from Europe means your right wingers have different objectives than ours. Ours are fixated with the past because their ultimate end game - though it will never, ever be admitted to - is the return of slavery: the ultimate power over 'the others'. So as an institution you have to do certain things to bring it about: romanticize it (back up with them monuments!); make it forgotten (teaching about it in schools hurts white MAGA kids right in their little holsters!); make 'history and tradition' your judicial standard. And when America is finally on life support, you just slip that syringe of slavery into the catheter and it will almost seem like bliss

[damikesc]

"their ultimate end game - though it will never, ever be admitted to - is the return of slavery"

...must be why conservatives here support illegal immigration for cheap labor with zero protections.

Oh wait...

American Democrats have never forgiven Republicans for taking away their slaves. Never will, either.

[hobie]

All the slavery-loving dems went to the Right in the sixties. I guess you never read about that or people failed to mention it to you.

Or are you rewriting history?

[ThePublius]

"All the slavery-loving dems went to the Right in the sixties."

That's a bullshit narrative concocted by contemporary Dems.

Today's Dems make the same arguments for illegal immigrants that they previously did for slavery. They haven't changed.

[hobie]

History rewrite it is!

[Kazinski]

For every Strom Thurmond that switched to the GOP, there were 3 George Wallaces, Lester Maddoxes, and Robert Byrds, who stayed in the Democratic party.

[damikesc]

Conservatives are saying we need illegals to mow our lawns, etc?

Really?

You're going with that?

[damikesc]

"All the slavery-loving dems went to the Right in the sixties. I guess you never read about that or people failed to mention it to you."

Do you know how many segregationists left the DNC for the GOP?

I do. But I will guarantee you do not.

[Krayt]

Martin, you being from Europe means your right wingers have different objectives than ours. Ours are fixated with the past because their ultimate end game - though it will never, ever be admitted to - is the return of slavery

Quit disasterbating on /pol/.

[Bob from Ohio]

"our ancestors murdered all the indigenous Americans"

Why would we say that? Its not true. Stop getting your history from Hollywood.

[Martinned]

Sure, Jan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

[hobie]

I've noticed a trend with you MAGA. As long as it is a disfavored group like Californians or Gazans or gays, 'let 'em suffer 'cause they deserve it' (I think it was Jesus that said that, but don't quote me) is de rigueur.

[damikesc]

Name a single time where conservatives said "Well, they deserved it" --- unlike the Left with basically every natural disaster that hits a red state. CA got fucked over by their government who are quite happy to seize their land for pennies on the dollar. All criticisms of the CA fire is solely on the government's utterly inept performance. HI fire? Criticism on how nothing is being done to help them rebuild. Nobody is saying "Well, those CA voters deserved it" because nobody feels they do.

NC citizens, however, were passed over by FEMA if they supported Trump. Girls are killed in a massive flood and Dems claim they deserved it because their parents voted for people they dislike.

[bernard11]

You are a liar.

[Commenter_XY]

Guess this never happened, huh?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5183424-fema-fires-three-more-people-connected-to-directive-to-skip-homes-with-trump-signs/

[Joe_dallas]

bernard11 15 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
"You are a liar."

Bernard - his statement is factually correct. Further you are most likely aware his statement is factually correct.

[Krayt]

Name a single time where conservatives said "Well, they deserved it"

Many years ago, Pat Robertson announced some hurricane that devastated a southern state was God's punishment for allowing gay marriage or something, and a list of general irreligious lawlessness.

He was far from the only one who talked like that.

Then he claimed his 80 year old ass could leg press 2000 lbs.

[Sarcastr0]

This isn’t WW2. And offering Hiroshima as a positive exemplar for Israel is kind of wild.

[Frank Drackman]

Because it doesn't fit your narrow world view, expand your mind Fidel

[Don Nico]

And yet at least eight countries keep building their stockpiles of nuclear weapons.

[Frank Drackman]

While I don't want a Nuke-ular armed Ear-Ron, the fact that France has had Nukes for 60+ years scares me, they're basically a Colony of Ear-Ron as it is.

[Martinned]

After Trump's decision to bomb Iran, they'd be crazy not to. Nothing short of a nuke makes you safe from random US bombing.

[David Nieporent]

That's bad military history. While the Japanese defeat looked inevitable by August 1945, by no means did we "have them beat" at that time. To actually beat them w/o the bombs would've involved a massive invasion or a blockade, either of which would've led to far more deaths.

[Mr. Bumble]

...on both sides.

[Bob from Ohio]

"looked inevitable" and "have them beat" are just two ways to say the same thing

[Krayt]

Cue the scene in Patton where he's standing in some commandeered room, talking to other generals, who are glibly enjoying the inevitable status of the war. Patton will take it seriously, as he "knows we can still lose."

They look around, but none dare declare him wrong.

[Riva]

I think you may find, when you learn to think (thinking is important), that the problems in this area of the ME actually stem from the Islamic regimes’ failure to recognize Israel. And you forgot to add “from the river to the sea.”

[hobie]

And you forgot to add “from the river to the sea.”

Probably because I don't give a shit about Hamas, Gaza or Israel.

[Riva]

You’re sure up for the cause apparently though. Or is this Mamdani style rebranding for you?

[Frank Drackman]

Like we don't give a shit about your beautiful black neighbors

[hobie]

I don't give a shit about them either. Them, Gazans, Israelis, you, me...all of us...savages

[Bwaaah]

You're swinging too wide. He only likes the prepubescent ones.

[hobie]

True

[Don Nico]

Hobie,
From the river to the sea, that land is ISRAEL.

[hobie]

Because the book the Israelis wrote themselves says so?

[Don Nico]

Because those are the facts on the ground. Judea and Sameria were part of Jordan, not part of a mythic Palestinian state.

[hobie]

So everyone's preferred books aside, historically it all belongs to Jordan?

[Riva]

No little stooge, your knowledge of history is as poor as your understanding of the Bible. Judea and Samaria, always historically part of Israel, were seized by Jordan when Arab nations attacked Israel in 1948. Israel regained its land in the Six Day war in 1967. But antisemitism is apparently a strong motivator for you to comment, notwithstanding your phenomenally ignorance. you have a lot of company on the left these days.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Nico — Wait a minute. Is that how ancient genetic lines get national identities, dating to recent political transformations?

[Don Nico]

Stephen,
I have no idea about ancient genetic lines. That is my brother's department.
But Judea and Samaria are ancient Israel. Modern Israel has as good a claim on it as anyone; in fact, I'd say a better claim.

[Martinned]

Given that they stole it from other people, Israel has no claim on it whatsoever.

[Martinned]

And to add: Until recently Israel quite sensibly didn't *want* to make any claim on the occupied Palestinian territories. If that land were part of Israel, Israel would have to explain why the people who live their don't get to vote in Israeli elections.

#Apartheid

[Joe_dallas]

Martinned 4 hours ago
Flag Comment
"#Apartheid"

Another delusional & ill informed comment from Martinned

There is no apartheid in Israel. On the flip side, there is considerable variations of apartheid in arab countries, especially in Gaza.

[Martinned]

There are Bantustans for the Palestinians, and Arabs with Israeli citizenship are discriminated against in countless ways. What else would you call that?

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel

[Joe_dallas]

martin - you digging a deeper hole

The article undercuts your claim,
while you ignore the extensive apartheid existing in the arab countries and in gaza

[Martinned]

More antisemites:

Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

It sounds inconceivable. But it’s the truth.

Israel is taking deliberate, coordinated action to destroy the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

https://x.com/btselem/status/1949787167628382251

Adi Ben Nun, a lecturer in the Department of Geography and head of the Geographic Mapping System Unit at the Hebrew University, stated that satellite imagery analysis from Gaza indicates that approximately 70% of the buildings in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged to the point of being uninhabitable.

An estimate published in the Haaretz daily placed the number of destroyed buildings in Gaza at 160,000. Ben Nun noted that the actual extent of the destruction could be even greater due to satellite limitations.

According to him, around 89% of the buildings in Rafah have been partially or completely destroyed. In the Khan Yunis area, about 63% of buildings have been destroyed. The same percentage applies to the northern part of the Strip.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/411751

[hobie]

I guess the idea is to not just make them stateless, but also to make them completely homeless to the point that it doesn't really matter if they live in a pile of rubble in Syria or in Gaza. Then queue up the boxcars.

[Riva]

A lot of antisemitic projection there, sport, for someone who doesn’t “give a shit about Hamas, Gaza, or Israel.” Someone is not being honest. As noted above, shades of Mamdani.

[Frank Drackman]

I don't give a shit

[hobie]

At least that's an honest statement. You're improving, Frankie!

[Riva]

Weird, reading your warped comments, one would have the impression that Israel wasn’t the victim of an attack by parties committed to the furthering the cause of “from the river to the sea.”

Just to confirm, do you do any side work for the Hamas ministry of health or is your support gratuitous antisemitism like the AP and BBC?

[hobie]

Martin and I aren't the ones cynically exploiting Israel and the Jews as a pretext to their biblical annihilation so that Jeebus can return and kick ass. The sooner you Riva and your MAGAs can admit the real reason for your bizarre, theocratic infatuation with Israel, the sooner we can get you the help you need

[damikesc]

Yup, nobody can support the only democracy in a region that has been attacked repeatedly for decades for any reason outside of an atheist's absurd theories.

[hobie]

Let's just say that MAGA's antipathy towards all segments of humanity save white, repub-voting American's (remember Trump humiliated American Jews that wouldn't vote for him), makes your slobbering devotion to Israel somewhat dubious

[damikesc]

Is the sky blue in your alternate universe?

I will not do the work to make the vapid idiocy you typed into a point to refute it.

You, like progressives, are inordinately fond of slaves. You should look into yourself on that one.

[David Nieporent]

Yup, nobody can support the only democracy in a region that has been attacked repeatedly for decades for any reason outside of an atheist's absurd theories.

Yes, the people who support Putin and admire Orban have a great respect for democracy.

[damikesc]

Supporting Putin? So, you lie in the first few words. Why should anybody take you seriously if you lie with such reckless abandon?

[Riva]

Still with the Russia obsession, even after the collusion fraud has been thoroughly exposed? You remind of the last Confederate soldiers still fighting in Texas after the end of the Civil War. You just can't give up the cause.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Exemplified by US Ambassador Mike Huckabee's reported belief that "“the Rapture will come,” sucking up all evangelicals to heaven to watch Israel be invaded by the world’s armies, culminating in Armageddon and Christ’s return."

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Believing that is not any crazier than believing that Israel's current actions in Gaza will make Israelis safer in the long run.

[Commenter_XY]

The war can end today: hamas needs to release the hostages.

[hobie]

"The famine can end today: hamas needs to release the hostages."

There, fixed that for you. One day, XY, your fever will break and you will be ashamed...if you even have the capacity to feel shame anymore

[damikesc]

Kinds funny how Hamas members aren't starving.

Must be a coincidence.

Just like how Kim Jong-Un being fat in a country with a starvation problem is also purely a coincidence.

[hobie]

Hamas doesn't just terrorize Jews, they also terrorize the rest of Gaza. They take what they want

[Mr. Bumble]

...and so should be eliminated.

[hobie]

I agree. But holding a knife to the throats of Gaza's children doesn't seem like a good way to do it

[Mr. Bumble]

It is Hamas who is holding the knife.

[damikesc]

Israel sending in troops to protect convoys leads to clowns like you bitching.

[Commenter_XY]

Sorry Arthur hobie....The war ends when hamas releases the hostages.

I am not at all sorry when hamas members and their supporters are killed. In fact, we need to kill more of them faster.

[Josh R]

Netanyahu's stated war goal is the removal of Hamas being in power and capable of attacking Israel. That doesn't end with the release of the hostages, so the war has to continue.

[Bob from Ohio]

Its politically untenable to continue it on the current scale if Hamas releases the hostages.

[Josh R]

Then Netanyahu is unable to remove Hamas?

[Bob from Ohio]

Other methods remain.

[Josh R]

Such as?

[Bob from Ohio]

Kill the fat Hamas leaders in Qatar for one thing.

[David Nieporent]

You think Netanyahu would stop the war if they did? (To be clear, Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally; using them as bargaining chips would be wrong even if it were effective, which it isn't.)

[damikesc]

"would be wrong"?

Cannot simply say "is wrong"?

[David Nieporent]

I'm sorry you're unfamiliar with English grammar. I posed a hypothetical situation — "even if it were effective" — so the correct mood is the subjunctive. "Is wrong" would be appropriate for the indicative mood, a situation that actually existed.

[Martinned]

It's difficult to imagine a more straightforward way to guarantee that all of Gaza will be ethnically cleansed and/or killed than releasing the hostages. What else is holding the Israelis back? Trump?

[Armchair]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

[Martinned]

Wait, who do you think were the good guys in the Battle of Stalingrad?

[Don Nico]

"the Haaretz daily" = the center of Netanyahu Derangement Syndrome.

destroyed buildings is hardly proof of genocide.

[Bob from Ohio]

Haaretz exists solely to give Jew haters talking points.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Doesn't that make you an antisemite?

[Martinned]

Oh yes. Don Nico, Bob, the editors of Haaretz, you, me, everyone's an antisemite!

[Joe_dallas]

completely inane response from obvi

[Joe_dallas]

Martinned 1 day ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
"More antisemites:"

"Israel is committing genocide in Gaza."

"It sounds inconceivable. But it’s the truth."

Martinned - your aforementioned comments are absolute Bull $--- and are based on a complete derangement from reality.

[Martinned]

Even Netanyahu is an antisemite:

"We are destroying more and more homes, they have nowhere to return to. The only inevitable outcome will be the desire of Gazans to emigrate outside of the Gaza Strip," Netanyahu stated.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-853568

In fact, it looks like a large majority of Israelis wants to commit ethnic cleansing, which (I gather from commenters here) makes them antisemites because they accuse Israel of war crimes. (No, I don't know how that makes sense either.)

The survey conducted by Professor Tamir Sorek of Pennsylvania State University, published here in Haaretz together with Professor Shay Hazkani, examined what the authors called "eliminatory" attitudes among Jewish Israelis and their theological roots.

Within days I began receiving anguished inquiries about the results. Friends, colleagues, peace activists, journalists and strangers wrote in from Australia to Uruguay to down the block, asking if it could possibly be true that 82 percent of Israeli Jews support "the transfer (expulsion) of residents of the Gaza Strip to other countries?" No less than 54 percent of Jewish respondents were "very" supportive.

Other findings were grim: A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries." And when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed.

https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/poll-show-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans

[Martinned]

The links to Haaretz in that article don't seem to work, but here it is:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-03/ty-article/.premium/a-grim-poll-shows-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans-its-brutal-and-true/00000197-3640-d9f1-abb7-7e742b300000

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-05-28/ty-article-magazine/.premium/yes-to-transfer-82-of-jewish-israelis-back-expelling-gazans/00000197-12a4-df22-a9d7-9ef6af930000

[LexAquilia]

Jews are the only ones allowed to commit genocide. You see? After the Holocaust...

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I don't know if Israel's actions constitute "genocide", given the flexibility inherent in the definition of that term, but they do seem to fall squarely within the definition of "ethnic cleansing". Israel doesn't even seem to dispute it.

I was recently surprised to learn that there is an even worse "definition" currently in vogue: the IHRA "working definition" of antisemitism, which reads:

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

That's not even a "definition"! Antisemitism is a "certain perception", which is not defined using any "certain" terms, but which only "may" be expressed as hatred towards Jews. So, whatever that "certain perception" is, it could possibly be expressed in ways which do not include "hatred towards Jews". Well, thanks a lot for that crystal clear guidance, IHRA...

The second part of the "definition" uses the (as yet not really defined) term "antisemitism" to further define "antisemitism", which, as any student of informal logic should know, is a no-no. Not that avoiding self-referencing would have helped much, because that part of the "definition" rather unhelpfully declares that instances of antisemitism are those which are "directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities", which somehow manages to be both overly broad and overly obvious at the same time.

[Stephen Lathrop]

ObviouslyNotSpam — Have you been unaware that the definition you mention is the one the Trump administration has been demanding be imposed on U.S. universities?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

It's not something I follow closely, no. I just ran across it this morning in the context of reading about faculty objections at one US university which had adopted the IHRA "definition".

I can't say I'm surprised to learn that the Trump Administration has been pushing for a thoroughly incoherent definition of "antisemitism". That would just be par for the course...

[Joe_dallas]

ObviouslyNotSpam 10 hours ago
"I don't know if Israel's actions constitute "genocide", given the flexibility inherent in the definition of that term, but they do seem to fall squarely within the definition of "ethnic cleansing". Israel doesn't even seem to dispute it."

There is absolutely no genocide or ethnic cleansing going on in the current Israeli/hamas war.

[Sarcastr0]

You an expert?

[Joe_dallas]

WTF - Quite a few have expertise is spotting the deranged beliefs spewing from leftists. not surprising that you would embrace the delusions.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"We are destroying more and more homes, they have nowhere to return to. The only inevitable outcome will be the desire of Gazans to emigrate outside of the Gaza Strip," Netanyahu stated.

That is, unequivocally, "ethnic cleansing". They don't even dispute it.

[Joe_dallas]

Obviousnot spam

your claim of "That is, unequivocally, "ethnic cleansing". They don't even dispute it."

Is obviously complete BS.

[Sarcastr0]

Specify, don't just contradict.

Is the quote wrong? Is the definition of ethnic cleansing wrong? Some other issue?

What is the argument behind your negation?

[Joe_dallas]

Your retort is plain stupid

If you are unable Read and understand his statement, how are your to respond intelligently to my response

[Armchair]

Martinned,

A question for you.

Your neighbor Joe has decided to rape your daughter.
Do you support moving him and his family physically away from you and your house? Yes or no?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

What a bizarre, contrived "question". Do you need help?

[LexAquilia]

The blacks do that to us Whites all the time. Can we take the same tactic?

[not guilty]

What are you talking about that blacks do to whites all the time?

And what is the basis for your claim?

[LexAquilia]

Crime stats. Are you not aware of the black on White crime statistics?

[Bob from Ohio]

"war crimes"

Talk to the Czechs who expelled all the Studenten Germans.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Why?

[Martinned]

Are you under the impression that I think the post-war ethnic cleansing of ethnic Germans in Central and Eastern Europe was or is OK?

[David Nieporent]

Wouldn't know; you never talk about it. Which is kind of the point. Nor do you discuss the millions (on both sides) killed or ethnically cleansed in the Partition of India.

[Mr. Bumble]

If ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

[hobie]

All this tariff stuff is really starting to make sense. As it stands, a US car maker will currently be paying a 50% tariff on steel and a 30% tariff on foreign parts. But if they just have their cars made entirely in Japan or the EU, then all they have to pay is a 15% tariff. 4D chess baby!

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

But MAGApatriots will only buy the American-made cars anyway, because it is their patriotic duty to pay higher import tariffs. That actually seems appropriate.

[Commenter_XY]

Screw that....Detroit needs to build a better, more reliable product. American cars crap out after 100K-125K miles, even with maintenance.

I'll gladly pay the tariff for Toyota or Honda; they last 250K miles with regular maintenance.

[Mr. Bumble]

Most Toyotas and Hondas sold in the US are made in America.

[hobie]

Except the Orange Genius has now made car making in the US too expensive

[ThePublius]

Carmakers disagree:

European automakers are making substantial investments in the United States, driven by a combination of factors including market demand, tariffs, and the push towards electric vehicles (EVs).

Key players and their investments
Volkswagen Group: The Volkswagen Group, which includes brands like VW, Audi, and Porsche, is investing billions in the North American market. This includes $10 billion at its Chattanooga, Tennessee plant, $5 billion in a joint venture with Rivian, and $5 billion in its Scout Motors subsidiary. In a bid to potentially avoid tariffs, there are discussions about Audi and Porsche possibly shifting some production into the US, according to reports in German business newspaper Handelsblatt.
Mercedes-Benz: Mercedes-Benz is strengthening its US manufacturing footprint with over $10 billion in cumulative investments in the country. They plan to localize the production of a new "core segment" vehicle at their Tuscaloosa, Alabama plant by 2027, building on their existing production of SUVs like the GLE and GLS at the same facility. Mercedes-Benz has also invested $1 billion in the expansion of its Alabama plant to produce electric vehicle models and build a battery plant.
BMW Group: BMW has invested nearly $13.3 billion in its Spartanburg, South Carolina plant since 1992. This includes a $1.7 billion investment announced in 2022 to prepare the plant for EV assembly and to build a high-voltage battery assembly plant in Woodruff, SC. The Spartanburg plant is a major exporter, with about 60% of its vehicles shipped to 120 markets worldwide, according to http://www.bmwgroup-werke.com.
Stellantis: Stellantis, encompassing brands like Chrysler, Jeep, and Ram, is investing over $406 million in three Michigan facilities to support its multi-energy strategy. The Sterling Heights Assembly Plant (SHAP) is set to become the company's first US plant to build a fully electric vehicle. Stellantis has also announced a joint venture with Samsung SDI for an EV battery facility in Indiana, with a second factory planned for early 2027.
Volvo Cars: Volvo has invested over $1 billion in its Charleston, South Carolina plant, which produces the EX90 and Polestar 3 SUV and recently announced the addition of the XC60. This reflects Volvo's long-term commitment to the US and its focus on the US market for its SUV models, according to AInvest.

Reasons for investment
Tariff mitigation: Faced with US tariffs on imported vehicles and parts, European automakers are establishing local production facilities to reduce costs and maintain competitiveness.
EV transition: The shift towards electric vehicles is driving investments in US manufacturing, including battery production facilities and EV assembly lines. The Inflation Reduction Act in the US is also playing a role in attracting investment in EV battery production.
Supply chain resilience: Localizing production helps reduce reliance on cross-border logistics and enhances supply chain resilience, especially in the context of trade uncertainties and geopolitical tensions.
Market demand: The strong demand for certain vehicle segments, particularly SUVs, in the US market is also a key factor driving these investments.
These investments represent a strategic shift by European automakers to strengthen their presence and competitiveness in the US market, particularly in the evolving landscape of electric vehicles and trade relations.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Foreign carmakers have long invested heavily into US factories, mainly as a result of previous rounds of US protectionism. Not sure why this round would be expected to have a different result?

At least they will be on the same footing as domestic manufacturers: paying more for imported raw materials and components.

[Stephen Lathrop]

When. foreign manufacturers look to locate production in the U.S. on account of tariffs, the reason is not to afford Americans relief from taxes. The reason is to take advantage of outsized profit opportunities created when tariffs suppressed price-restrictive competition from abroad. That means American consumer losses to tariff taxation will be augmented by higher prices for domestic manufacturers taking bigger profits.

[David Nieporent]

Not sure whic-generated slop you're quoting here, but virtually all of those plans were announced before Trump was elected.

[David Nieporent]

Woah; that got corrupted. Meant to say, "Not sure which AI-generated slop you're quoting here, but virtually all of those plans were announced before Trump was elected."

[Mr. Bumble]

Cue Carly Simon: "Anticipation".

[bernard11]

Wow. Did you research and write that by yourself?

[M L]

Or they can buy plentiful domestic steel and parts, and pay nothing!

I'd guess the cost of raw steel is less than 1-2% of the price on the car by the way.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Actually, it's more like 50-60%.

Maybe don't just "guess"?

[mulched]

Average cost of a new car is about $48,000 and contains an average 1000 pounds of iron or steel, worth about $6000. A 25% tariff would be about $1500, which isn't nothing but is only a 3% bump in the cost of the vehicle, even assuming it was all imported.

65% is the content by weight, not by cost.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

If you google the cost of raw materials and parts in making automobiles, the online sources tend to agree that these together make up about 50% of the selling price. That does include more than just "raw steel", but cars are not only made of raw steel, and Trump's tariffs affect much more than raw steel. Cars are increasingly made using imported aluminum, parts and components--all of which are affected by Trump's tariffs.

You have chosen to do your own calculations based on average weight and the market price of steel. Unfortunately, this analysis ignores the cost (and increased cost, after the tariffs) of other inputs, such as aluminum and any imported parts and components, so I don't think it is very useful.

However, if the Trump tariffs add up to 3% to the price of a car--looking at steel alone--the Trump tariffs will probably add at least 10% to the overall price of each vehicle if you include the increased cost of other raw materials, parts and components. Which will ultimately be paid by American consumers and contribute to inflation in the US. Win-win!

[M L]

So my "guess" was much, much closer to being correct, than your botched claim as to what it "actually" is was!

Got it!

Anyway, just did a search and google said this: "The price of raw steel for manufacturers is highly variable, but generally ranges from $700 to $1,800 per ton." Quite a bit lower than mulched's figure.

[Michael P]

Noted antisemite cites propaganda coverage and paywalled opinion pieces without admitting that approximately 100% of so-called Palestinians want to kill every Jew in the world. Comment spam presumably continues at 11.

For example, the UN and Hamas are the ones blocking non-Hamas members from getting food aid.

[Martinned]

the UN and Hamas are the ones blocking non-Hamas members from getting food aid.

Cite?

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/dozens-palestinians-killed-us-israel-backed-food-distribution-sites

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QheOoKFNpL8

[Michael P]

The UN is my source.

[The UN says] looting in Gaza by armed Palestinians are crippling their ability to collect this aid from Kerem Shalom.

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/15/nx-s1-5035998/gaza-israel-food-aid-piling-up-not-reaching-those-in-need

It was also widely acknowledged from the leftist media until it became inconvenient to do so.

Earlier in the war, Hamas relied on taxes imposed on commercial shipments and the seizure of humanitarian goods, according to Gazans and current and former Israeli and foreign officials. According to a Gazan who has worked at the border, plainclothes Hamas personnel routinely took inventory of goods at the Rafah crossing, until it closed last year, and at the Kerem Shalom crossing, though it was under IDF control. They also surveyed warehouses and markets. Most of the Palestinians interviewed for this story spoke either on the condition of anonymity or that only their first name be used, for fear of reprisal by Hamas.

[...]

Hamas profited “especially off the aid that had cost them nothing but whose prices they hike up,” said a Gazan contractor who has worked at Gaza’s border crossings during the war.

Over nearly two years, he said, he saw Hamas routinely collect 20,000 shekels (about $6,000) from local merchants, threatening to confiscate their trucks if they did not pay. He recalled that civil servants for the Hamas-led government said several times that they would kill him or call him a collaborator with Israel if he did not cooperate with their demands to divert aid. He said he refused. But he added that he knew at least two aid truck drivers who he said were killed by Hamas for refusing to pay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/07/21/hamas-gaza-war-financial-crisis/

[Martinned]

That doesn't say anything about the UN blocking anything, which was exactly the surprising part of your claim.

[Commenter_XY]

The UN efforts, being what they were, were feeble. They just suck.

The gazans support hamas. They can go hungry while hamas feasts on stolen humanitarian aid in the tunnels.

There is no role for hamas in gaza, going forward.

[Michael P]

There's no real functional difference. In those areas, UN programs are largely staffed by Hamas members and carry out Hamas work.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

So you would admit that "blocking non-Hamas members from getting food aid" isn't a UN policy, and cannot fairly be attributed to the United Nations itself? Right?

[Michael P]

The UN is legion, it contains multitudes. It includes and supports people who are blocking this food aid. If the UN wasn't so desperate to employ Hamas members, the UN might adopt policies and practices that actually help get aid to ordinary Gazans.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Is that a yes or a no?

[Michael P]

Was it a UN policy that blue-helmet peacekeepers should rape children? The General Assembly doesn't need to pass a resolution for something the be fairly attributed to the UN.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Yes, I see that dishonesty has become a way of life for you. Bless.

[Michael P]

"Is that a yes or a no?", to coin a phrase.

[Sarcastr0]

So it was a statement that wasn’t actually true, but you believe it to be functionally true.

[hobie]

Aren't the IDF the ones 'crippling' food seekers with bullets. I seem to remember reading something about that.

Also, over the weekend I saw a video of Gazans in rafts floating in the surf trying to gather fish, and then getting blown to pieces with artillery fire. I guess I didn't see that as well.

[damikesc]

Well, Pallywood is a thing.

Virtually nothing the Jordanians living in Gaza state is real.

[hobie]

Looked real to me. Bombing fishermen in the surf kinda gives real life to 'from the river to the sea', don't you think?

[damikesc]

You mean propaganda looks real? Well, never heard that one before.

I loved the footage from years ago when "Palestinians" were carrying a "dead body" until they thought they were out of the camera shot --- where the "dead body" got up and walked off.

[Martinned]

If only there were independent journalists in Gaza. I wonder why there hardly are any?

The Associated Press, AFP, BBC News and Reuters on Thursday issued this joint statement about journalists in Gaza:

We are desperately concerned for our journalists in Gaza, who are increasingly unable to feed themselves and their families. For many months, these independent journalists have been the world’s eyes and ears on the ground in Gaza. They are now facing the same dire circumstances as those they are covering.  

Journalists endure many deprivations and hardships in warzones. We are deeply alarmed that the threat of starvation is now one of them.

We once again urge the Israeli authorities to allow journalists in and out of Gaza. It is essential that adequate food supplies reach the people there.

https://www.ap.org/the-definitive-source/announcements/joint-statement-on-gaza-from-afp-ap-bbc-reuters/

[Frank Drackman]

The Egyptians are serious about people violating their territorial waters

[Mr. Bumble]

...and their land. That's why there is a "wall" on the Egyptian/Gaza border.

[Don Nico]

Rather simple Martin, the UN refuses to let the IDF manage the distribution of the many pallets of food lyoing in the sun.

[hobie]

Because the IDF keeps massacring the ones that show up

[Mr. Bumble]

Didn't your parents teach you that lying is wrong?

[ThePublius]

That's more bullshit. You certainly are flinging the poop today!

[hobie]

Israeli forces have killed over 1,000 aid-seekers in Gaza since May, the U.N. says
https://www.npr.org/2025/07/23/nx-s1-5477365/israel-gaza-aid-casualties

Israeli tanks kill 59 people in Gaza crowd trying to get food aid, medics say
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-tanks-kill-59-people-gaza-crowd-trying-get-food-aid-medics-say-2025-06-18/

'It's a Killing Field': IDF Soldiers Ordered to Shoot Deliberately at Unarmed Gazans Waiting for Humanitarian Aid
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000

[Mr. Bumble]

You forgot this one about the starving child. Oh wait it was another hoax.
Collier reports that the deformed child has cerebral palsy. Collier observes: “The published images in all the various news broadcasts and publications have either been deliberately cropped to remove the image of the healthy brother, blurred him into obscurity, or the journalists have only chosen to use photos in which the brother is not visible at all.”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2025/07/same-as-it-ever-was.php

[Bob from Ohio]

Where are the Doctors without Borders videos showing this?

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Not aware of videos, but Doctors Without Borders are pretty clear in their opinion as to what is happening in Gaza:

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/msf-staff-and-patients-are-wasting-away-mass-starvation-spreads-across-gaza

[ThePublius]

That is total bullshit. There are tons of food aid in Gaza, it's just that the UNRWA refuses to distribute it, and refuses to cooperate with GHF.

[Martinned]

For today's non-crisis reading I can recommend this blog post by Cambridge professor Mark Elliott about the recent UK Supreme Court judgment in Shvidler v Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs.

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2025/07/29/the-supreme-courts-judgment-in-shvidler-lord-leggatts-liversidge-v-anderson-moment/

(In fact, I can recommend the blog in general. Mark Elliott is one of the UK's leading experts on constitutional and administrative law, and his blog posts are always extremely thoughtful.)

The question is what the UK/English courts should do with the proportionality test that they have to apply under the European Convention for Human Rights and the UK Human Rights Act. Should they apply a degree of deference to the executive when it comes to certain factual questions that go into the test? And how should the appellate courts review the way the court below has applied the proportionality test?

The majority did apply a fair bit of deference in reviewing a decision to impose sanctions on an individual and a company because of their involvement with the Russian regime. (Which was challenged as an interference with the right to property.) Or at least, the dissent argued that the majority was (too) deferential.

Prof. Elliott thinks the dissent wasn't entirely fair, but nonetheless compared it to the most famous dissent in British history, Lord Atkin's dissent in Liversidge v. Anderson during World War II.

[LexAquilia]

Q: "When did Donald Trump flirt with you?"
A: "He didn't. That's what's inaccurate."
Q. "Did you ever see Donald Trump at Jeffrey's house?"
A. "Not that I can remember."
Q. "On his island?"
A. "No, not that I can remember."
Q. "In New Mexico?"
A. "No, not that I can remember."
Q. "In New York?"
A. "Not that I can remember."

Excerpts from Maxwell's testimony.

Blue-Anons like Loki most hurt. lmao suckers.

[Martinned]

Wait until Trump pardons her. Then her testimony will really blow your mind!

[Frank Drackman]

Will she tell us how to make Crack like Hunter did?

[Moderation4ever]

All this makes sense. Trump didn't flirt with her because she was too old. She also has dark hair and Trump runs blond. As for here memory it seems about as good as most people in a large amount of trouble. Maybe some of the pictures with Trump, Epstein and her will jog her memory.

[LexAquilia]

In NY you don't need much of any memories at all to civilly convict Trump of sexual assault/rape and extract half a billion dollars in damages.

Maybe if the Dems were smart they would somehow figure out how to get this in front of one of those NY judges?

[Moderation4ever]

Better than any memory is to have Trump's own deposition. That is a sure fire winner for your case.

[hobie]

They should have shown her the pictures of her and Trump

[jb]

So I guess Trump has nothing to worry about if he just releases the files, then? Seems like it would put an end to all this unfair speculation.

[LexAquilia]

Why do you think the Senate Democrats blocked the release of all the Epstein files?

[JD85]

Why do you think Senate Democrats blocked the file release?

Republicans blocked the most recent request, and actively left the capital to avoid a vote. The Republicans have the House, Senate and Presidency. The Democrats could do NOTHING to stop them from releasing the files if they wanted to.

President Trump could order the release tomorrow. Why are you blaming other people for his actions?

[LexAquilia]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jeff-charles/2025/07/24/senate-democrats-block-resolution-to-release-epstein-files-n2660891

Senate Democrats Just Showed They Were Never Serious About Releasing Epstein Files

---

That's weird.

[Malika the Maiz]

Lex is full of it as usual.

https://www.kosu.org/local-news/2025-07-24/oklahoma-sen-mullin-blocks-epstein-file-release-from-doj-proposes-limited-court-document-unsealing

[David Nieporent]

Ah. So my second possibility — fooled by Mullin — is the answer. This is (a) a non-binding resolution; it wouldn't release anything; and (b) uses the Trump dodge of focusing on the things that can't legally be released — the grand jury material — rather than the things that can — whatever the DOJ has in its possession.

[JD85]

The link you provide is a motion for the courts to release their files (e.g. grand jury files, since trial files are all public as is). It does not require the release of all the files the FBI has. And the FBI has tens of thousands of documents. Pam Bondi has said there is a list.

There is NOTHING stopping the administration from releasing those files if they want to. I don't know why you think the president and his officials need someone else's permission.

Additionally, the Senate Democrats don't hold control over any committee, they don't chair any committee, and they don't have the votes to stop anything. Republicans could pass a motion asking the court (which is all that the motion would do, ask the court nicely) to release the files all on their own. They could even pass a law requiring the release of the files by the courts.

But that isn't what they did.

[David Nieporent]

Why do you think the Senate Democrats blocked the release of all the Epstein files?

They didn't. You completely fabricated this, or were too stupid to realize you were being fooled by Mullin.

[damikesc]

Releasing videos of kiddie porn (the Dems want "EVERYTHING" released with no exceptions) seems like a poor idea.

But you seem gung ho for it.

[David Nieporent]

At no point have the Democrats said that they want everything released with no exceptions. Why are you just lying?

[Life of Brian]

At no point have the Democrats said that they want everything released with no exceptions.

I suppose there's at least a possibility of that being correct as long as you specifically carve out Chuckie Schumer's latest publicity stunt.

He even helpfully close-captioned the video, so you can see where he said "we are requesting all the documents in the Epstein case" without even having to turn your sound up.

Oh, and I guess you'd also have to make an exception for where the Senate Democrats said: "We’re invoking a rare Senate power to compel release of the full Epstein files."

And so on.

[David Nieporent]

I suppose there's at least a possibility of that being correct as long as you specifically carve out Chuckie Schumer's latest publicity stunt.

He even helpfully close-captioned the video, so you can see where he said "we are requesting all the documents in the Epstein case" without even having to turn your sound up.

Do you see the word "release" in that close-captioning?

[Life of Brian]

He does in fact use the word "release" elsewhere when discussing his latest One Cool Trick (which I'm sure you know if you've looked at all). But it's not clear why that really matterrs since the word "release" explicitly appears in the post from the Senate Democrats (which Chuckie approvingly reposted) that you somehow managed to crop out of your quote.

IOW, do you have a point, or are you just squirming?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Do you want the Epstein files released or not?

[David Nieporent]

Maxwell has never testified; WTF are you talking about?

[Riva]

I know some here want to rant with humorless stupidity against the Sydney Sweeney ad campaign. Don’t resist, let it out.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

What would your handlers like you to say about it? Don't keep us in suspense!

[Malika the Maiz]

It’s funny to see the Right get all riled up at the caricatures in their head.

[Armchair]

https://babylonbee.com/news/american-eagle-apologizes-replaces-sydney-sweeney-with-fat-transgender-double-amputee-of-color

[Michael P]

She is easy on the eyes, but I have never been a big fan of heavy reliance on hair product and makeup. And "my genes are blue" hardly makes sense as a punchline; "my jeans are blue" just makes it a sudden but homophonous change in topic.

But I'm not going to speculate on whether her knees are sharp.

[Sarcastr0]

I see the right is hoping to make this a fight...not sure many on the left care.

[Riva]

There's that projection again. You really need a new schtick. The woke left lost its mind here, not anyone on the right.

[LexAquilia]

They don't call him The Great Gaslightr0 for nothing.

[Michael P]

Nobody calls him "The Great" anything.

[Riva]

May I recommend instead, "little communist girl that never smiled"?

[Sarcastr0]

No it’s bait. And the liberals here are not as reflexive as you.

[LexAquilia]

Go read the headlines you fucking boob.

[Malika the Maiz]

It wrote this just minutes before!

Riva 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
I know some here want to rant with humorless stupidity against the Sydney Sweeney ad campaign. Don’t resist, let it out.

And it wonders why we call it a bot!

[Riva]

Thanks, yes, I know I invited humorless stupidity but I didn't actually mean f'ing embarrassing, abysmal imbecility. So we won't need you here today. Maybe next time.

[TwelveInchPianist]

The Atlantic: "Even her figure has become a cultural stand-in for the idea, pushed by conservative commentators, that Americans should be free to love boobs."

MSNBC: "Sydney Sweeney's ad shows an unbridled cultural shift toward whiteness..."

[Malika the Maiz]

That Atlantic quote is from a paywalled article which I doubt you’ve read.

[TwelveInchPianist]

You are correct! The quote's hilarious by itself.

[Malika the Maiz]

And of course you don’t know if the Atlantic author agreed with it or not, but hey this is the same mental giant that thinks “MSNBC and the Atlantic define teh Left!” in a discussion where literally none of our left wingers are repeating the caricatures you guys seem to so desperately need on this.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Wow. You're being very defensive about this.

[Malika the Maiz]

About your silly generalization? Nah, takes little effort to note that.

[TwelveInchPianist]

About my two hilarious quotes.

[Malika the Maiz]

Used in your silly generalization and with no context, yes.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Lol. What silly generalization?

[Riva]

He's probably envious because she has bigger and more appealing breasts than him.

[Bob from Ohio]

WaPo "American Eagle’s provocative new denim campaign featuring actress Sydney Sweeney leans into retro sexiness — and it’s sparking debate about eugenics and “wokeness.”

[Frank Drackman]

It was some Lefty Poof on PMS-NBC who started it

[LexAquilia]

My favorite thing about the Sydney Sweeney ad is that just about every ad prior shows a black and brown men preferring White women, but as soon as White women's beauty is put front and center, it's OMG dat's raycist!

lmao, obvious White women are seen as the ideal by the Left. Otherwise all those ads wouldn't be showing White women as the preferred choice.

[Mr. Bumble]

Thankfully, the executive at American Eagle who suggested Dylan Mulvaney for the add campaign was ignored (that person is now receiving electro-convulise therapy) and instead we got Sweeney.
As a tribute to Artie here is the new Stones video featuring Sydney:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mEC54eTuGw&t=13s

[Malika the Maiz]

This is more incoherent than usual, did the new Medicaid work requirement get your meds cut off?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Yeah, the good place just got even harder to get into.

Now there's a gorgeous blond, and if you even think about having sex with her, it means you hate Jews!

And she's really good!

[Bob from Ohio]

"it means you hate Jews!"

You've missed the "Jew is CEO of American Eagle" portion of this kerfuffle.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I have never heard of "American Eagle", but it sounds like some sort of shameless MAGA-stroking brand, designed to con the marks out of their hard-earned by appealing to their confused sense of patriotism. Some clueless relative of mine apparently got on some RW mailing lists and now my email domain is plagued with this kind of brainless, shallow appeal to American faux-patriotism and consumerism.

(I only wear Levi's, of course.)

[Bunny495]

Well I only wear Brioni jeans (and suits as well).

But American Eagle was started in 1977 well before time travel allowed MAGA to head back to the 1970s.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Imported Italian designer clothing? Very MAGA, lol...

I said the brand name sounded like it was a MAGA-esque rip-off, not that it was. I grew up in the US and had never heard of it before this week. Maybe if I had lived on the East Coast and shopped more in mall stores I would have, but I never would have bought jeans from them.

All "designer jeans" are inferior to Levi's, and always will be.

[ThePublius]

Wrangler jeans are the best. I would never buy Levis anyway, as they are anti-gun.

[DaveM]

Like most, I had no idea who Sydney Sweeney even was before this brouhaha. So I went looking for some interviews and appearances, and was pleasantly surprised. In one interview, she was describing working with a costume designer on one of her streaming shows. She had a command of the details, and showed a genuine interest in the process. She sounded intelligent and excited to be helping to create her character.

If she stays clear of politics and remains unaffected by all the criticism, I have high hopes she'll develop into a gifted actress.

[Malika the Maiz]

Sun rises, GOP showers its favored group with welfare.

“Under the new law, more than $60 billion in additional funding will be funneled toward agricultural subsidy programs, with large farms, particularly those in the South, poised to reap the most benefits.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/30/us/trump-tax-policy-bill-farmers.html

[Frank Drackman]

Queenie wants the Darkies to keep totin' dat barge, lifttin' dat bale

[Malika the Maiz]

Shouldn’t you be crying about the black baby holocaust weepie like usual? Fake character, fake edgelord!

[Frank Drackman]

Queenie a hollorin' bout the back rent, she ain't gonna get the front rent, she ain't gonna get none of it!

[damikesc]

Farms don't produce anything useful, unlike green energy. Amirite?

[Malika the Maiz]

If you think they’re providing something useful get a job and buy it, stop using government to take money from people like me and give it to them, statist slaver.

[JD85]

Subsidies for healthcare (medicaid) are bad. Subsidies to feed poor kids lunch are bad. Subsidies for farms are good.

For reasons. Get with the program.

[Bob from Ohio]

Poor people vote for Dems, farmers vote GOP.

Politics dude.

[Malika the Maiz]

Bob has no principles, example number a thousand.

[Bob from Ohio]

Is my explanation wrong?

[Poxigah146]

Maybe if poor kids didn't get subsidies, parents would stop having kids they can't afford?

[Malika the Maiz]

DID TRUMP JUST CONFESS HE LEARNED ABOUT VIRGINIA GIUFFRE BEFORE JEFFREY EPSTEIN RECRUITED SOMEONE ELSE AT MAR-A-LAGO? (all caps in original)

Update: In a Gaggle today, Trump did just confess this is about Giuffre and others.

Reporter 1: I’m just curious. Were some of the workers that were taken from you — were some of them young women?

Trump: Were some of them?

Reporter 1: Were some of them young women?

Trump: Well, I don’t wanna say, but everyone knows the people that were taken. It was, the concept of taking people that work for me is bad. But that story’s been pretty well out there. And the answer is, yes, they were.

[inaudible]

Trump: In the spa. People that work in the spa. I have a great spa, one of the best spas in the world at Mar-a-Lago. And people were taken out of the spa. Hired. By him. In other words, gone. And um, other people would come and complain. This guy is taking people from the spa. I didn’t know that. And then when I heard about it I told him, I said, listen, we don’t want you taking our people, whether they were spa or not spa. I don’t want him taking people. And he was fine and then not too long after that he did it again and I said Out of here.

Reporter 2: Mr. President, did one of those stolen persons, did that include Virginia Giuffre?

Trump: Uh, I don’t know. I think she worked at the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people, yeah. He stole her. And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know. None whatsoever.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2025/07/29/did-trump-just-confess-he-learned-about-virginia-giuffre-before-jeffrey-epstein-recruited-someone-else-at-mar-a-lago/

[loki13]

I have to admit, I was shocked when Trump first admitted that the reason (he claims) for the falling out with Epstein was because Epstein was ... poaching his employees?

I was like .... either that's a really callous thing to say (because of all the reasons to have a falling out with your bestie who is a monster, you were squabbling about some employees) or .... are you saying that you actually knew Epstein was recruiting underage girls from your place? Because it's well-known that he did.

And the issue wasn't that .... they were underage. Of course that's not the issue with Trump! After all, that's why he loved the Miss Teen USA. The problem was that Esptein was taking ... Trump's teen girls.

Again, how is any of this a surprise?

[Sarcastr0]

Still am not convinced this moves the needle, but I am amused Trump's defenses have become like, 'I'm no longer a fan of Epstein after we went together to a party at Bill Cosby's and he was very rude to me.'

[Frank Drackman]

He sounds like Kramer trying to tell a story he sold to Peterman

[Estragon]

It would be extremely amusing to monitor Susie Wiles’ blood pressure readings while Trump is providing these Epstein explanations

[Josh R]

It isn't a surprise, and as such don't expect any more fallout for Trump than he got for grab them by the pussy.

The only electoral danger for the GOP is the hardcore MAGA base sits out 2026 because Trump broke his promise and sided with the deep state in not releasing the Epstein files. It's all about batshit crazy conspiracy theories, not the substance of Trump's transgressions.

[Kazinski]

But Epstein didn't meet Virginia Giuffre at Mar-a-Lago, it was Ghislaine Maxwell that met her there, and recruited her for Epstein.

And Virginia Giuffre herself said Trump never did anything inappropriate or even flirted with her.

[Kazinski]

One other detail about how teenaged Virginia Giuffre came to be working for Trump and Mar-a-Lago in the first place, her father was a maintenance manager there, and got her the job.

[Frank Drackman]

How much rent is "45/47" paying for that Condo in your Head?

[Malika the Maiz]

Says the character who’s rushed to defend him a half dozen times in this sub thread alone! Every accusation applies to sad internet buskers in the Trump Cult too.

[Frank Drackman]

Queenie, I've lost track of how many "Conspirators" admire my Genius, my turn of a phrase (and if you guys could see my well turned ankle, hey now!) the "Alternative" (OK, some say "Perverted") view I give as the member of a Truly Aggrieved Minority Group (Peoples of Southpawness) There are Black, Hispanic, and Asian Catchers, Third Basemen, Second Basemen, Shortstops, how many Lefties????
You, OTOH, "Malika" (the Homo formerly known as "Queenie") are about as welcome as Pancreatic Cancer, as John Wayne Gacy at a Kiddies Pool Party, Lorena Bobbit at a Testicular Cancer Support Group, Charles Manson at a Sharon Tate Film Festival*, Meir Kahane at Terror-Anne Noon prayers, Adolph Eichman at the Holocaust Museum, I'd say you're the proverbial Turd in the Punchbowl, but you're not that popular.
In other words, nobody likes you and your mom dresses you funny

Frank

* Besides "Valley of the Dolls" Sharon was in "Barabas" and 2 Episodes of "Mr. Ed", get that content anywhere else!

[Malika the Maiz]

Trump loves the poorly educated, of course some tribal MAGAns like your third grade level schtick writing.

[Riva]

Who? Could you get more absurdly irrelevant in this exploitive Epstein distraction obsession? Yeah, probably, if the Russian collusion fraud is any example.

[Malika the Maiz]

Riva bot programmed to deflect from Epstein mess

[hobie]

Sounds like Trump was using underage girls in his spa.

[Frank Drackman]

you have alot of experience with that?
OK, I know it wouldn't be with girls, I meant the "Underage" part

[hobie]

When I was a teenager I had sex with other teenagers. Does that count?

[Mr. Bumble]

No, having sex with your own teenage hand doesn't count.

[Malika the Maiz]

Remember, Bumble is the guy who famously showed he doesn’t know how blow jobs work (he talked about Bill Clinton on his knees getting a blow job).

[Mr. Bumble]

I don't think that's what I said (at least intentionally) so why don't you go back in your troll file and bring up the comment?

[Malika the Maiz]

Oh you said it, one of your many Bumbles (and I pointed it out many times).

[Mr. Bumble]

Yes, you have said it many times. Now bring up the comment or shut up.

[Malika the Maiz]

You said it, it was like a year ago I’m not digging it up, but you said it. If you don’t remember your Alzheimer’s is getting worse.

[Mr. Bumble]

You said I said it. I don't remember it but since you seem to and bring it up often, find the original comment or drop it.

[Malika the Maiz]

I guess I’d try to forget saying something so sad/stupid too I did.

[TwelveInchPianist]

I guess if he wants a blowjob he gets in whatever position your mom tells him to.

[Malika the Maiz]

Ah, Bumble’s defender and fellow incel jumps in to defend him!

[TwelveInchPianist]

Incel? I'm on my knees getting a blowjob from your mom as we type!

[Malika the Maiz]

Like I said, an incel wouldn’t know how that works (and I guess your mom has restrictions on your internet access).

[Mr. Bumble]

Queenie, please enlighten us and post your educational video on the proper way to give a blow job.

[Malika the Maiz]

Unlike you I know the guy is not on their knees during one (it doesn’t make sense to link to a video for you, the library won’t let you watch that on their computer).

[TwelveInchPianist]

So some dude convinced you that if he was on his knees while you were sucking his dick, you weren't really giving him a blowjob, you were getting a blowjob from him??

Wow, talk about gullible.

Was it Bill Clinton? That sounds like the kind of thing Bill Clinton would say.

[Malika the Maiz]

Nice attempt to get out of your jam but he was talking about Monica and Bill. Monica’s a little on the heavy side for my tastes but she’d be a dream girl for an incel like you, definitely not it a dude.

[TwelveInchPianist]

QA's buddy: Let's give each other blowjobs. We'll take turns so it'll be fair.

First you get on your knees and suck my dick, and then I'll get on my knees and you suck my dick. Sound good?

QA: OK, as long as we both get blowjobs!

[Frank Drackman]

did any have a pulse?

[Malika the Maiz]

I like how the Frank Fakeman character performed here by some disordered loser has to dim his edgelord act to pathetically rush to defend his Orange Daddy so much. Guess his own dad leaving played some part in that!

[Frank Drackman]

I'm gonna take that BP Fastball where I make the expected joke about the scandalously high Black illegitimacy rate (Definition of Mass Confusion? "Father's Day" in the Ghetto), oh I just did?
How about this one,
"What do you call a Black Family where the Husband and Wife are married??"
"Fictional"
I've got a million of em,
Working on some new material,
"What color is a Black Guy after an Enema??"
"What do Travon Martin and Martin Luther King Jr have in common?"
"How did Floyd George say "I can't breathe" if he wasn't breathing?"
Frank "Appearing Live at Kellerman's this weekend, opening for Bob Newhart and Lenny Bruce"

[Malika the Maiz]

The dad of the Frank Fakeman character performed character sadly busked here leaving really did a number on him.

[Frank Drackman]

Do your fingers work your Dads (redacted) as fast as they do the keyboard?
Face it Queenie, in a Battle of Wits with me, you're Michael Spinks vs Mike Tyson, Eddie Gaedel vs the Big Unit, an Internet Troll version of the 1962 Mets, the Coyote vs the Roadrunner, Elmer Fudd hunting for Wabbits, Trig Palin vs Steven Hawkins,
I'd continue but it's be redundant (like your chins)

Frank

[Malika the Maiz]

So much wit in a person who performs a character that writes like a third grader on a legal blog!

[Mr. Bumble]

"What do you call a Black Family where the Husband and Wife are married??"

The Cosby Show?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Referring to the pesky timeline, 18-19 year-old Virginia Giuffre was "recruited" out of Mar-a-Lago in 2000, and was "associated" with Epstein until sometime in 2002 (reportedly).

Epstein's infamous 50th birthday book was created for his birthday in January 2003.

Which suggests that (if the letter purportedly to have been contributed by Trump is genuine) Trump knew all about Epstein's "stealing" of teenagers from his spa for several years before allegedly "kicking him out" of Mar-a-Lago in ca. 2004--and in particular he knew about it in 2003, when he allegedly wrote about their shared "secrets"...

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Also in 2002, of course, was this revealing Trump quote: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Giuffre was allegedly "stolen" from him in the summer of 2000, and yet he was still singing Epstein's praises two years later...

[JD85]

I think this shows more that he knew Epstein was recruiting from Mar-a-Lago. I don't think this shows that he specifically new about Virginia Giuffre.

Still mildly surprising that he admitted he knew Epstein was actively recruiting young girls at Mar-a-Lago.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Apart from him saying so?

"Pressed about whether any of the employees he referred to were young women, Mr Trump said many of them worked in the spa at Mar-a-Lago.

"The answer is yes, they were in the spa," he said. "I told him, I said, 'Listen, we don't want you taking our people, whether it was spa or not spa.' ... And he was fine. And then not too long after that, he did it again."

Asked if Ms Giuffre was one of the employees poached by Epstein, the US president replied: "I think she worked at the spa... I think so. I think that was one of the people. He stole her, and by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know, none whatsoever.""

[Moderation4ever]

A reading of the history of Israel show that their invasion of Lebanon in the 1980s was a disaster. Mostly because Israel end up losing the support both inside and outside of Israel for the effort. I think that the Gaza invasion is reaching the same point. The Netanyahu government needs to figure out what to do and what to do quickly because they are now losing the public face of the war.

[Michael P]

You blame Israel for "the Gaza invasion" on October 7. Typical.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Er, Gaza was not "invaded" on October 7, 2023.

Israel did not begin ground operations in Gaza until October 13, 2023.

[Michael P]

It's really not a better look for you to pretend this conflict escalated suddenly on 13 October 2023.

[Malika the Maiz]

Mikie P doesn’t like it when you point out the obvious mistakes he writes.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

No, I think he must perversely enjoy it. What else could explain both his casual truthiness and ritual doubling down when caught?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

In fact, I "pretended" nothing of the sort.

The Gaza war obviously began with Hamas' murderous incursion into Israel on October 7, 2023. I also recall several days when public opinion throughout the world was in solidarity with Israel (apart from the usual antisemitic suspects and the loony left).

Sadly, it was not to last. And we all know why.

[Michael P]

Yes. You people do not allow Jews to defend themselves from genocidal Arab colonizers. You people in fact act to keep the those genocidal colonizers in power.

[Martinned]

In what way does Israel need defending against Muhammad Zakariya Ayyoub al-Matouq?

[Michael P]

It doesn't, you dishonest fuck. That's why Israel arranged for him and his mother to travel to Italy in June so he could be treated for his congenital diseases. Even though his father died "while looking for food" (coincidentally, I am sure) on the day and at the place of a Hamas-IDF firefight.

[Mr. Bumble]

Wrong child. Mohammed (subject of NYT story) has cerebral palsy. The child flown to Italy (Osama al-Raqab) has cystic fibrosis.
In either event they were not starving.

[Michael P]

Ah. So Mohammedned demands wars be totally free of side effects, especially those caused by the putative government of the victims.

[apedad]

"You people in fact act to keep the those genocidal colonizers in power."

We're talking about Israel supporters now, right?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"You people"?

No, I simply maintain that there are no "special rules" for Israel which do not apply to every other country in the world. The same rules that say Putin may not ethnically cleanse Ukraine of Ukrainians and "Ukraine-ness" apply equally to Israel, Hamas and the United States in resolving their own problems.

[Moderation4ever]

No, I don't blame them for anything, I think the time as come for the Israeli government to end the conflict and start dealing with the post war.

[Don Nico]

Israel's government is blocked from doing what is necessary by the power of the Israel's AG and the IDF AG, neither of who can be fired by the government.

[damikesc]

What they need to do is occupy Gaza and slaughter all opposition.

Giving them Gaza was a failed experiment in Israel giving land for peace.

[Malika the Maiz]

Keyboard tough guy holds human life to be cheap, in other news trouble in the Middle East!

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

So is the objection to calling this "genocide" simply that "Gazans" are not a "people" or an ethnic group?

[Bob from Ohio]

"Gazans" are not a "people" or an ethnic group"

There is no "genocide" of any sort but this statement is just objectively true.

They are just run of the mill Arabs.

[Malika the Maiz]

Who lived in Palestine for the past few centuries.

[Frank Drackman]

Oh, newcomers, thanks!

[Malika the Maiz]

Not as new as all those Ashkenazi Jews from Europe that moved there relatively recently.

[Bob from Ohio]

"past few centuries"

ok. Still Arabs.

Invaders. Settler colonists if you will.

[Malika the Maiz]

That were settled there for longer than Europeans have in the US.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"slaughter all opposition"...

[hobie]

Trump: Jeffrey stole one of my underage girls from Mar a Lago.
Also Trump: I didn't get the privilege of going to Jeffrey's island.

If Trump don't stop talking about Epstein he's liable to convict himself.

[Moderation4ever]

Trump does seem to be digging himself a hole. I think he relys on the fact that his supporter will rationalize Trump behavior away.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Trump relies on his Supreme Court supporters to immunize him. Neither Trump, nor anyone he talks with on the job, can get questioned about whether Trump has done anything criminal. If there are any loopholes left, Trump relies on his Supreme Court buddies to fix them.

At this point the crisis in American constitutionalism is at least as much about Supreme Court abuses as about Trump abuses.

[hobie]

Also Trump: All my sexual assaults were committed as Minority Report style pre-crime so that I would have something to lie about during official statements in the first July of my second presidency. Presidential Immunity!

Harlan Thomas: Confirmed!

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I figure Virginia Guiffre was 17 or 18 when she worked at the Mar-a-Lago "spa", based on her birth date (August 1983) and the time she is alleged to have met Maxwell at Mar-a-Lago (summer of 2000). So she may not have been "underage", but she was definitely vulnerable.

[LexAquilia]

Why is RTTL (Return to the Land) being investigated in Arkansas, but Freedom Georgia isn't?

https://www.returntotheland.org/
https://www.freedomgeorgia.com/

They're the exact same, except the race is different. Why are Whites the only identity group that's forbidden from any sort of affinity based relationships?

[hobie]

Good grief, man! You're even whatabouting your own statements!

[LexAquilia]

I am asking for some sunlight into the thinking of the Democrats.

They hate one, while propping up the other one.

Why? It makes no sense.

[Malika the Maiz]

“I am asking for some sunlight into the thinking of the Democrats.”

The Democrats running Georgia and Arkansas?

[LexAquilia]

The Democrats raging against one while propping up the other.

Idiot.

[Malika the Maiz]

You asked about investigations ya goof, who is in charge in those states?

[hobie]

Just finished watching a report on how the tech billionaire Marc Andreesen (who JD Vance characterized as 'our guy') is bankrolling the build of a white Christian nationalist town in Jackson county Tennessee as a bulwark against the eventual collapse of society. Neegroes and Jews are specifically prohibited. Ah, MAGA: antisemitic to the core. No wonder y'all keep shrieking 'antisemisim' these days. It's like our Frankie here constantly accusing everyone else of being homosexual.

[LexAquilia]

Uh, hobie. If they're trying to be a bulwark against social collapse you HAVE to exclude the subversive Jews and the rapey "Neegroes". At least they aren't making exceptions for the darkies by allowing them to do menial slave tasks like the Democrats always seem to do.

[Malika the Maiz]

“rapey "Neegroes"

In 2019 there were about 17,000 arrests for rape (about 27% were black) in the US and about 41 million black Americans.

[ThePublius]

In 2023, the Black population in the United States was estimated to be 14.4% of the total population. But were arrested for rape at almost double that rate. So, what's your point?

[hobie]

I say let both live as they please.

[Frank Drackman]

Thats very White of you

[ThePublius]

I think the expression is "mighty white."

[John F. Carr]

Tales from the New England Culture Wars.

The First Circuit held that a school district was not liable for a secret gender transition. There was no official School Board policy on the use of chest binders, for example. Evasively supporting teachers after the fact was not enough to sustain a lawsuit.

Lavigne's allegations fail to plausibly show that
either the Board had a policy of withholding or that the Board later ratified the individual defendants' decisions to withhold information from Lavigne.

The court left to a footnote the observation that circuit precedent allows schools to keep secrets from parents.

https://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/sites/ca1/files/opnfiles/24-1509P-01A.pdf

That's a win for team blue. In a win for team red, an arbitrator ordered reinstatement of a school counselor who had been fired for not being sufficiently rainbow for the Pioneer Valley. She was accused of misgendering, for example. The school superintendent spins the loss as a procedural failure, failure to present evidence during arbitration. The Boston Globe reporter talked to several people who wanted her to be employed in a role where she won't have any student interaction. A non-counseling counselor.

This happened next door to the school district that terminated a job offer after the applicant used the word "ladies" to refer to the womynx on the school committee. A lawsuit over that incident is pending.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/07/29/metro/amherst-middle-school-counselor-reinstated-transgender/

[John F. Carr]

Massachusetts spends $3,870 per family per week to provide emergency shelter for what used to be called homeless families. By state law children and pregnant women can't be left on the street. They have to be housed. The law got a lot more expensive in the last few years and state officials started weighing the value of slogans ("no human being is illegal!") against hard dollars (it can cost $100 or more per night to house those totally legal human beings in a motel room).

The program cost is $200,000 per family per year. That's twice the maximum income that qualifies a family for "affordable" housing. (Not to be confused with public housing.) That's five times the cost of putting a family in a motel room, which is a common practice.

The $3,870 figure "represents total expenses for EA shelter program costs from last full month that has had nearly all bills paid, divided by number of families in the program as of the last report from that month, prorated to weekly basis." (Quoting from a state report.)

https://www.bostonherald.com/2025/07/29/mass-emergency-shelter-spending-over-940m-for-fy25-latest-state-data-shows/

[Malika the Maiz]

“The program cost is $200,000 per family per year.”

That’s nuts.

[hobie]

I can't tell if he's against the housing or the costs. Owing to MAGA's obliteration of America's safety net this year, I'm guessing the housing. 'Cause even if the housing cost nothing, it still galls the hayseed that someone somewhere is getting free help.

[Mr. Bumble]

Nothing is "free".

[Malika the Maiz]

200,000 is far too much, it indicates government inefficiency, rightly angers taxpayers and could well incentivize homelessness.

[JD85]

Yeah for $200K you should be able to house 6 families minimum, and realistically 8 - 10.

The requirement should be adjusted to provide for housing anywhere in MA, not specifically in a city of their choosing. Lots of rental units available that aren't in Boston or the Boston area.

[hobie]

Ship 'em to Cleveland. For $200,000 you could buy about five, perfectly serviceable houses and just straight up give the houses to the five families. And no further monies needed for the five families next year 'cause they would already be permanently housed. The catch? They'll be surrounded by neegroes. But between living among neegroes or a bunch of white Christian nationalists...who do you think is safer?

[ThePublius]

"But between living among neegroes or a bunch of white Christian nationalists...who do you think is safer?"

Answer: white Christian nationalists

What do I win?

[hobie]

You win the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross

[Bob from Ohio]

"it indicates government inefficiency,"

Kickbacks and bribes

[hobie]

So you don't like people in government accepting kickbacks, eh?

[Jmaie]

"“The program cost is $200,000 per family per year.”

That’s nuts."

Seattle in "only" spending $38,000 for every homeless person in the city. They are relatively spendthrift. On the other hand, if you're spending $38,000 per person, and the number of homeless continuously increases, one could be forgiven for thinking that they're doing it wrong...

[ReaderY]

Until perhaps a decade ago, the phrase “states rights” was nothing more than a euphemism for racial segregation in liberal circles. It was accepted as a given that states were backwards and parochial at best, actively evil at worst, and that the federal government was always good and right better. The more power the federal government had and the less states had, the better off the left believed itself to be.

What’s been remarkable in the last few years is deep-blue states like California not only actively asserting state policies directly contrary to federal ones, but usingly increasingly aggressive forms of states’ rights arguments and legal strategies to justify enforcing their policies and minimizing the federal government’s ability to effectively enforce its.

Indeed, thinking seems to have out-and out flipped on this issue as on so many others. The MAGA right increasingly favors centralized government including federal supremacy. And the idea of states as distinct sovereigns with rights is increasingly becoming a left thing.

The switch is by no means complete. There are still traditionalists in both parties with the old views. But it seems to be gaining momentum.

[tylertusta]

I don't see it as remarkable at all. Democrats have proven to be fair-weather federalists that are very willing to use any tool on the toolbox to achieve their preferred policy outcomes. That the right are also shown to be hypocrites on this issue shouldn't surprise us either.

[hobie]

If you cared to notice, states rights absolutism shifts depending on who is in the White House

[JasonT20]

The switch is by no means complete. There are still traditionalists in both parties with the old views. But it seems to be gaining momentum.

There is no switching. Ask any conservative whether "states rights" still matters on issues of abortion, public education, and so on.

Democrats are catching on that state governments are an important check on abuse of power from the federal government against individual rights. But that doesn't negate the continuing appeal to "states' rights" whenever a conservative state government wants to be the one abusing individual rights.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Now that the Republicans (50-49) confirmed their Trump defense attorney and "F the courts" judge to the court of appeals, what will happen to the criminal contempt that is being held up by an administrative stay in which Bove is implicated?

https://www.justsecurity.org/116777/bove-criminal-contempt-boasberg/

Republicans could have gotten any number of other options, including those that Josh Blackman would endorse heartily, but they had to have this one. They did their Trump genuflecting like the good Trump Congress they are. So it goes.

[tylertusta]

If the contempt charge is allowed to proceed and if then convicted, I expect Bove to either resign or be impeached/removed.

But I don't expect the contempt charge to ever be allowed to go forward regardless of how mad Judge Boasberg is.

[Bob from Ohio]

"I expect Bove to either resign or be impeached/removed."

US attorney will just nolo it. The court appointed prosecutor thing won't fly.

If needed, pre trial pardon. You still cannot get 67 votes because the prosecution is blatantly political.

[not guilty]

"US attorney will just nolo it."
Uh, nolo contendere is a plea to a criminal charge. Nolle prosequi is a disposition of a case, but I don't think I have seen that in federal court. Dismissal on the government's motion requires leave of court per Fed.R.Crim.P. 48(a).

[Commenter_XY]

Doesn't the Nolle prosequi disposition come with strings attached? Meaning, the prosecution gets another bit at the apple, in the future.

[David Nieporent]

That depends whether the dismissal is with or without prejudice. And whether jeopardy has attached.

[tylertusta]

I agree that I don't think that Bove would ever be prosecuted mainly because I think that SCOTUS will step in before it ever came to that.

However, in a situation where Bove is convicted in a criminal trial, Republicans in Congress would face a potentially catastrophic dilemma. I think that Republicans will want to sidestep that by quietly pushing Bove out. If Bove doesn't go quietly them Republicans will choose the lesser of two evils and remove Bove.

[JasonT20]

If the contempt charge is allowed to proceed and if then convicted, I expect Bove to either resign or be impeached/removed.

Why would he resign? He certainly wouldn't be impeached. Both he and all of the Trump loyalists will just say what Bob just did - It was all political persecution.

Trump has spent the last decade refusing to acknowledge any guilt on anything, and his supporters love him for it. That's exactly what appeals to some of them: nothing is ever Trump's fault, any accusation of misbehavior proves that the ones making the accusation are bad people, and those enemies must be punished for daring to make those accusations.

Trump makes them believe that what works for him will work for them in their lives. They want that exact same freedom from responsibility and power to punish anyone that threatens their belief in their own superiority.

[tylertusta]

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but you're missing a very important point: Bove's biggest weakness is that he's not Trump. He's expendable. Just ask Matt Gaetz how Trump rewarded his loyalty once the chips were down.

If convicted in a criminal trial the shitstorm in Congress may well push a majority to impeach even with a Republican House. Trump doesn't want that just like the razor thin GOP House majority wants it.

There are enough Republican Senators to force a trial in the Senate should it come to that, and the rest of the Republican Senators don't want that, either. The message to Trump and Bove from them will be "There's still time to replace him, because if we don't do it now then Democrats will replace him in a few years."

[Keldonric]

I found the claim interesting just because of how absolute it is, so I asked ChatGPT — figured Mr. Trump must have admitted at least one clear governing mistake. But unless something’s been missed, he really might be the only president, going all the way back to Washington, who never has. That’s kind of wild.

[Magnus Pilatus, MBA, MD, JD, PhDx2]

No one gives a rip what that Democrat hack Boasburg says.

Hes just yet another Democrat tyrant in a black robe.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I used to watch the British detective show, Grantchester, though I stopped after a few seasons. I started again. They have a new reverend helping the local Detective Inspector.

It is just blithely shown that the reverend and DI work together like the reverend is an official part of the police department. He's there during interrogations and so forth. No justification needed.

It's an enjoyable lark of a show. Takes place in the 1950s, though it is not always overly strict about keeping to 1950s norms.

[ducksalad]

Meh. Too many detective shows on PBS.

Throwing in anachronisms is also a thing. Perhaps it started with acting quotas that required them to do stuff like put a few Chinese churchgoers in late 1500's Stratford-on-Avon and have the Austen family's physician be a black guy. If you're going to do that no need to be strict about the rest of it. My only real problem with it is that it makes maintaining suspension-of-disbelief a bit harder, can't ever really forget that it's actors and a script.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Seems to be too many detective shows overall. I watch them sparingly. You can spend all day with murder, if you wish.

I am not aware of the examples given, but there are many examples of historical dramas that are loose with the facts. They might have some general "look" that appears accurate, while anyone with historical knowledge would point out many problems.

Sometimes, like with this popular show, people suspend disbelief. After all, people do that when watching current day dramas.

[Martinned]

Yes, terrible.

https://sellymanormuseum.org.uk/news/2023-10-02/black-tudors-free-men-and-women-in-england

[Kazinski]

2nd Quarter GDP came out and it hit 3% in the first estimate.

Analysts were expecting 2.4, so it was a pretty good beat of expectations. It also will take a lot of pressure off the Fed to lower interest rates.

It's hard to describe 3% growth as anything other than good news but I suppose people.can try.

https://www.bea.gov/news/2025/gross-domestic-product-2nd-quarter-2025-advance-estimate

[Mr. Bumble]

...and in Sydney Sweeney economic news:
BREAKING - American Eagle's Stock - $AEO has SURGED over 24% since Sydney Sweeney's Jean Ad's

[Malika the Maiz]

During Biden’s economy, huh?

https://apnews.com/article/trump-economy-biden-tariffs-a268e2c155019a462eaa951aa20c7fcd

[tylertusta]

We should not be surprised when a President takes credit for anything good his predecessor achieved while blaming the predecessor for any problems that currently exist.

[Malika the Maiz]

It’s a good thing he didn’t say he’d make it better on day one of his administration then!

[ThePublius]

You're ridiculous.

[Malika the Maiz]

You mean Trump? He’s the one done said it.

[hobie]

I remember having to listing to goddamn Paul Harvey at work throughout W's two terms. Every day he had to highlight some economic miracle happening in the US economy. Every...single...day. Guess what happened the first day of Obama's presidency? Go on...guess.

That's kinda the vibe I'm getting from you Kazinski. Now then, if you were crowing in 2021-2024 about us getting inflation down from 9 to 3, and I somehow missed it, then I stand corrected

[Kazinski]

Powell did do a good job getting inflation down, and I have given him credit, although he was late to respond in the first place, and probably started cutting too early.

I am not going to give Biden credit when he is the one that caused inflation to spike in the first place.

And of course Biden kept spending money as fast as he could manage, but he was hamstrung by a GOP Congress that wouldn't pass anymore huge spending bills.

[tylertusta]

Biden's and other national Democrats' response to inflation was to pretend it didn't exist. Then their solution to inflation was to immediately spend even more money on Green New Deal policy priorities.

...which underscores their lack of seriousness when they approached the problem.

No wonder Trump won!

[Bob from Ohio]

"pretend it didn't exist"

Transitory!

[Sarcastr0]

Powell seems to not agree with all that hard work you're doing on the economy:

"Increased tariffs are pushing up prices in some categories of goods. Near-term measures of inflation expectations have moved up on balance over the course of this year on news about tariffs."

[Kazinski]

Here is a snippet from today's BEA GDP report:

"The price index for gross domestic purchases increased 1.9 percent in the second quarter*, compared with an increase of 3.4 percent in the first quarter. The personal consumption expenditures (PCE) price index increased 2.1 percent, compared with an increase of 3.7 percent. Excluding food and energy prices, the PCE price index increased 2.5 percent, compared with an increase of 3.5"percent.".

So to recap:
prices on Gross Domestic purchases down 1.5% to 1.9%* in second quarter.
Prices on Personal Consumption Expenditures inflation down 1.6% to 2.1%* in the 2nd qtr.
And core PCE inflation is down 1% to 2.5%* in the 2nd qtr

* "seasonally adjusted annual rates"

[Sarcastr0]

Wow why would Powell lie like that?

[Poxigah146]

Yeah, Powell did a good job getting inflation down after stealing 30% of the value of the dollar in only a few years.

[Martinned]

Sure. It's not like running persistent budget deficits had anything to do with anything.

[Poxigah146]

It actually didn't. Monetizing the debt is a much different situation than borrowing the existing money stock.

[John 4]

Did you already stop the inflation tracking posts?

[John F. Carr]

Another case about consecutive life sentences. Nineteen year old Jairin Perez murdered two people. In 2002 he was sentenced to two concurrent terms of life without parole. Twenty years later the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruled that 19 year old murderers were entitled to a parole hearing after 15 years. In effect, they were to be sentenced for second degree murder, for which the sentence is 15 to life, despite being convicted of first degree murder. This constitutional rule is retroactive. Perez is one of many prisoners seeking resentencing.

The prosecutor wants him resentenced to consecutive life terms. That much is allowed. When part of a sentence is found to be illegal the entire sentencing package is open to reconsideration as long as the total sentence does not increase.

But he is still parole eligible if sentenced to consecutive life terms. He served 20 years of each 15 to life sentence, not 20 years of one 30 year to life sentence.

Perez v. Commonwealth, SJC-13731, https://www.mass.gov/doc/perez-v-commonwealth-sjc-g13731/download

[BrotherMovesOn]

I haven't the exact details on the proposal, other than one of the 11 PM news channels brief coverage, and even quickie Internet content seems sort of confusing but it looks to me like Beacon Hill is making an genuine effort to get the bar advocates back to work. Whether they agree is TBD.
I'm not nearly an expert on the issue. But wages are wages; not incredibly difficult to understand.
I'm aquatinted with a couple and they are not driving BMWs. Or even new cars. Haven't heard their views recently. But I'm sure they realize this can't go on.
MA paid/pays 65 for district court cases.
Maine pays 130! Maine?!!!!!!

[John F. Carr]

They are offering a $10 per hour pay raise with another $10 to follow. I think it's not enough to end the work stoppage.

[Poxigah146]

Democrats are just disgusting, pro criminal, evil people.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Twenty years later the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruled that 19 year old murderers were entitled to a parole hearing after 15 years."

Life without parole doesn't make really make sense from a decision-making perspective. Why bind yourself today to a decision to grant parole in 30 years when you'll be in a much better position to make the decision in 30 years or whenever?

The reason we have life without parole is to counter the pro death-penalty argument that if we don't execute people, a bunch of softies will let them out of jail eventually. Whether that's a good argument is debatable, but decisions like this by the SJC show that it doesn't work in practice.

[Magister]

Requiring a parole hearing after N years does not bind anyone to grant parole; at that time, the parole hearing will be better positioned to evaluate whether parole should be granted.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

You guys act like no Senate ever rubber-stamped 99% of their party's nominations before.

This suggests that a few should not be rubber-stamped.

Emil Bove was one such blatant case that deserved not to be rubber-stamped.

I think Trump has nominated more than the traditional fair share of bad picks overall, judicial and non-judicial.

But, even aside from that, a few blatant cases stand out. That is what people are particularly upset about.

[Bob from Ohio]

"This suggests that a few should not be rubber-stamped. "

"a few" but Bove is well qualified. Ask the left leaning ABA

An unreliable accusation by a disgruntled ex-employee isn't much.

You and the rest here don't like him because he was Trump's lawyer.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

People have spelled out why this specific Trump lawyer [which all by itself is something of a red flag, yes] is such a problem. It isn't based solely on one allegation.

The reply implies that I am right. There is a small subset of nominees that are not rubber-stamped. Rightly so.

And, this specific one leaves a lot to be desired.

[Bob from Ohio]

"this specific one leaves a lot to be desired"

He dared to represent Donald Trump, yes.

[David Nieporent]

I do think it should be inherently disqualifying for any president to appoint his personal lawyer to the bench.

[ThePublius]

How about a president appointing his brother Attorney General?

[SRG2]

JFK should not have done that. Next.

[Mr. Bumble]

Probably wound up getting him killed.

[Frank Drackman]

RFK too

[David Nieporent]

1) LOL at being so desperate for a whatabout that you reached back 65 years.
2) That's not as bad as putting him on the bench.
3) But it was still inappropriate. Which was recognized, which is why they passed a law in 1967 to forbid it. (Unofficially known as the "Bobby Kennedy law," in fact.)

[David Nieporent]

The accusations were confirmed by documentary evidence. And there was also his corrupt quid pro quo with Eric Adams.

[Kazinski]

Powell is talking now about the Fed meeting, you don't even really have to listen to him to know its going to be a while until they start lowering rates, just look at the market indexes, they all took a dive straight down as soon as he started talking.

[Martinned]

Time to put him on a plane to El Salvador.

[John F. Carr]

The First Circuit rejected a claim that the major questions doctrine protected a bitcoin exchange. Is bitcoin "funds"? The court decided clearly yes. So it was clearly subject to FinCEN regulation. So the defendant could be convicted of running an unlicensed money transmitting business, on top of other financial crimes.

https://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/sites/ca1/files/opnfiles/23-1839P-01A.pdf

(The defendant tried to avoid accepting drug money. He was convicted of accepting drug money. The judge set aside the guilty verdict on that charge. The government did not appeal. I don't know who was legally correct.)

A 2021 statute expanded the scope of FinCEN's authority to more clearly include bitcoin by adding "value that substitutes for currency" to the list of money-like things to be regulated. So this case is only of historical effect.

[M L]

As I recall that seems a bit different than how the government characterizes bitcoin for tax purposes.

[hobie]

Well, congratulations Hayseeds. You did it. I hope you're happy. Last Wednesday of the month I transport my old ladies to the food bank. And oh my god, it has been devastated. The only things they had were lettuce, carrots, canned black beans, canned garbonzos, white rice sack, for some reason a ton of bagels, canned spaghetti sauce and frozen turkey lunch meat slices. My ladies didn't say a word but I could see in their eyes they were resigned...I would say, maybe, exhausted. Cutting off the food banks and other little petty torments may make you think you're sticking to whomever. Gleefully using hunger as a weapon on the people you think aren't really human like Gazans and black ladies. But you have no idea what you've caused for real people. Fuck all of you.

[M L]

I'm not aware of what you're referring to. But I'm aware of food banks which run on voluntary charity (as opposed to thuggish coercion and theft/taxes) doing quite well and flourishing.

[hobie]

Trump cut off Department of Ag contributions to all food banks...which is roughly 80% of their supply

[Bwaaah]

Show me a hungry person, and I'll show you a problem that has nothing to do with government food program funding.

Your view is like a dumb, decades old cartoon.

[Martinned]

Indeed. They're all lazy and should get a job.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/1jc9oft/dont_you_all_have_jobs_jd_vance_mocks_americans/

[Bwaaah]

Martinned: "They're all lazy and should get a job."

Nope. That's not a significant cause of people in the U.S. living hungry. Try again, as if reality matters to you, if by chance it does.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Have you ever volunteered in a Food Bank, and talked to the people who need assistance? You've got a lot of nerve lecturing someone on reality. Whatever the cause is that put them in the position of needing assistance, the Trump Administration has just made it much more difficult to help them.

And what, pray tell, is the "real cause" of hunger that you feel is being addressed by this administration?

[Mr. Bumble]

So when did you volunteer?
Are you doing so now?

[Bwaaah]

I did not assert that there is a "real cause" of hunger. (That's your straw man.) There are many real causes of hunger. But Martinned's attribution of laziness and joblessness as significant causes of hunger, in the U.S., is wrong.

In the U.S., mental illness (including drug addiction) and irresponsible parents are the major causes of hunger, from my observations. (Infirmity, particularly in elderly people without supporting social networks, is also a significant cause.) Note that I am not talking about "food insecurity," poor nutrition, or occasionally coming up short of food on a day (which is usually due to changes in a person's food aid routine). Very few of the people who avail themselves of food programs have a significant problem with hunger. Their challenge is to identify sources of food aid, which are pretty widely available in most areas of the U.S.

What do you think are the major causes of hunger in the U.S.?

[David Nieporent]

But Martinned's attribution of laziness and joblessness as significant causes of hunger, in the U.S., is wrong.

JFC, are you really incapable of understanding irony?

[Mr. Bumble]

More likely sarc.

[Bwaaah]

That wasn't irony. That was Martinned's attempt to dismiss me as a person whose beliefs are based in false assertions. Toward that end, he fabricated and attributed to me a straw man argument. (Alpheus followed up with a similarly non-responsive tack.)

Are you really incapable of understanding my serious but slightly ironic response to a dumb, purely tactical argument?

[Magister]

I think it was equating your clueless vileness with that of JD Vance; i can see why someone who faced that would bluster.

the major causes of hunger, from my observations

Oh no! Bwaah did his own research! Martinned must be feeling pretty foolish, after offering only links and ironic statements.

[hobie]

Straight up poverty is the cause. Next you will attack the cause of their poverty. Are they having naughty sex or laying around all day. Some are for sure. But my ladies are neither. They're just old and poor.

[M L]

The cause of hunger is biology . . . . . What did you think it was?

If you were to ask: What is the cause of poverty?

Answer: Nothing. It is the default state. The real question is, What causes prosperity?

[Magnus Pilatus, MBA, MD, JD, PhDx2]

You mean they didnt have Little Debbie's, Fritos, Hot Pockets and Coca-Cola?

What's this world coming to if the US government won't subsidize you eating bad-for-you goy slop?!?!?!

I want my factory food thats no better than livestock feed, dammit! And I want it to be free! Its my right to have shitty, cancer causing food to be paid for by other people! Not fruits, vegetables and other whole foods!!!

Won't someone please think of Big Foods profits?!?!

[hobie]

You fucking idiot. There are no chips or candy or soda at food banks. It's all staples. If you'd bother to volunteer instead of making shit up, you'd see for yourself

[Mr. Bumble]

Maybe they'd be OK if they didn't sell their SNAP benefits for smokes, booze and lottery tickets.

[hobie]

People like you exist

[Mr. Bumble]

Sounds like a government run grocery store.

[ThePublius]

I have an idea. Why don't you drive them to a supermarket and pay for their groceries? You can afford it, can't you?

[hobie]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to supplement all of them for August.

[ThePublius]

That's very kind of you.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"I transport my old ladies to the food bank."

Maybe if you stuck to one you'd be able to keep her fed.

[Paladin_44]

That's just plain insensitive to the needs of others. I suppose it gives you pleasure to be so crass.

[Sarcastr0]

He;s another who didn't used to be like this.

[M L]

hobie walked right into that one. It was totally legit, you humorless scold.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"That's not funny!"

[M L]

.

[Magnus Pilatus, MBA, MD, JD, PhDx2]

https://x.com/Real_RobN/status/1944433774512734708

Video proof of Arizona Democrats stealing an election. Still won't change any minds. The Left is impervious to anything not dictated to them by their mind masters.

[David Nieporent]

LOL.

[M L]

True if big. What should be the punishment for overthrowing the government

[hobie]

Yeah, what should that be?

[LexAquilia]

Hopefully we found out soon with the Obama/Clinton Cabal.

[hobie]

Dude, I pray you guys keep bringing up election stealing

[ThePublius]

"Pelosi: Newsom’s Right, 2026 Election ‘Is Being Rigged’"

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2025/07/30/pelosi-newsoms-right-2026-is-being-rigged/

[Sarcastr0]

Lets sample some posts by @Real_RobN. He sure does uncover some very dramatic stories!

236.6K Followers

Some of his bangers:
1. "The New York Times should be designated as a terrorist organization."

2. "BREAKING:
Holy Sh*t,
FBI Director Kash Patel just discovered thousands of Crossfire Hurricane documents stuffed into burn bags and hidden inside a secret room in an FBI facility."

3. And here it is:
TREASON IN BLACK AND WHITE
Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton received a classified memo summarizing the explosive report exposing how John Brennan fabricated the Trump–Russia intelligence.
But instead of briefing the sitting President of the United States, Bolton locked it in an NSC safe — and as a loyal and obedient traitor believed the fabricated garbage."

4. "Lindsey Graham congratulating Adam Schiff for attempting to overthrow the sitting President of the United States:
“Good job. You’re very well spoken,” — said after Trump’s impeachment.
He, his wife John Cornyn, and his mistress Tom Cotton are conspiring to prevent DNIGabbard from releasing more evidence linking them to the plot to overthrow the duly elected President of the United States."

[bernard11]

Our demented President is calling for the arrest of Beyonce for something that didn't happen.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Shocked!

[hobie]

"Canada to Recognize Palestinian State at the U.N. General Assembly"

We're so weak now internationally that even these poodles of ours are doing what they've chafed about for decades. Europe just punked us on a trade deal where they pay nothing and the American consumer instead pays 15%

And the thing about Europe - because I lived there for 10 years - they don't buy any of our products, especially cars. The grocery stores are also empty of American products except maybe French's mustard and Aunt Jamimah. So all these shenanigans just result in a 15% tax on Americans. It doesn't affect Europe whatsoever

[Josh R]

Americans buying less European products will hurt Europe. As I see it, the only thing Europe got in return for agreeing to 15% was not having 30%.

[JasonT20]

We're so weak now internationally that even these poodles of ours are doing what they've chafed about for decades. Europe just punked us on a trade deal where they pay nothing and the American consumer instead pays 15%

Yup. That's what happens when the President is a clown, who can't think his way out of a paper bag, and he just makes up policy based on his own ignorant misconceptions and prejudices. The rest of the world see us as a joke, and they no longer care what we think. They just figure that they'll have to work to manipulate Trump's perception of what they are doing rather than deal with U.S. power that is focused toward a coherent policy.

[hobie]

I mean, these European negotiators are all trained, degreed economists and they're absolutely schooling Trump. But he's too dumb to realize it and it is embarrassing.

[Martinned]

I don't know that that's right. I think it's a matter of two parties at the negotiating table having different priorities. That's always good for making negotiations productive, because it allows for positive-sum negotiations. Trump wants big numbers that he can talk about on Truth Social, and the EU wants lower actual trade barriers than whatever crazy he would do otherwise. So they both got what they wanted.

[Josh R]

The EU wanted Biden-level tariffs. Instead, they got 15%.

[Bwaaah]

Hobie: "even these poodles of ours"

Canada and Europe are "our poodles?"

You're bad at hiding the horrible person you are, too busy calling it out in others you think are different. You're a hayseed from the left, but a hayseed all the same.

[Sarcastr0]

So mad on behalf of Canada!

You seem happy to shit on Europe as a tyranny. Suddenly you are very concerned.

[Bwaaah]

Sarc: "You seem happy to shit on Europe as a tyranny."

You made that up. You just make shit up. To whom are you even talking?

[Martinned]

Another antisemite:

“I cannot defend the indefensible. Israel’s actions in the conduct of the war in Gaza, especially its failure to address the unimaginable humanitarian crisis now unfolding, is an affront to human decency. What appears to be a deliberately-induced famine among a civilian population—including tens of thousands of starving children—can never be an acceptable military strategy.

“While clearly justified in responding to the horrific attack by Hamas on innocent Israeli citizens, that tragic event cannot in turn justify the enormous toll on Palestinian civilians caused by Israel’s relentless bombing campaign and its indifference to the current plight of those trapped in what’s left of Gaza.

“I in no way accept or condone the actions of Hamas, but recent events have placed a moral burden on Israel to ameliorate the current crisis, a burden it has thus far totally failed to meet.

“For these reasons, I am through supporting the actions of the current Israeli government and will advocate—and vote—for an end to any United States support whatsoever until there is a demonstrable change in the direction of Israeli policy. My litmus test will be simple: no aid of any kind as long as there are starving children in Gaza due to the action or inaction of the Israeli government.”

https://www.king.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/king-releases-statement-amid-growing-nutrition-crisis-in-gaza

(The statement is from Monday, but I forgot to mention it until now.)

[John F. Carr]

Senator King is as woke as Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was similarly critical of Israel on Monday.

[ThePublius]

Gaza Starvation Photos Tell a Thousand Lies
Hamas propaganda exploits seriously ill children, and Western media go along.
By Eitan Fischberger
July 30, 2025 2:23 pm ET

"Over the weekend, I embedded with the Israel Defense Forces in Gaza, where I saw the enormous quantities of humanitarian aid the United Nations has been refusing to distribute. What struck me most were the thousands upon thousands of pounds of baby food, baking under the Middle Eastern sun—jar after jar of mashed carrots, pureed potatoes and fruit blends."

"Since Oct. 7, 2023, Israel has coordinated and facilitated the entry into Gaza of more than 1.86 million tons of humanitarian assistance, more than 78% of which has been food. The population of Gaza is about 2.1 million. The only comparable effort in modern history is the Berlin Airlift of 1948-49, during which the Allies delivered 2.3 million tons of supplies to 2.5 million West Berliners over 15 months. Even then, the aid was going to an allied population. “There is no historical precedent for a military providing the level of direct aid to an enemy population that Israel has provided to Gaza,” writes John Spencer of the Modern War Institute at West Point."

Read the whole thing:
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/gaza-starvation-photos-tell-a-thousand-lies-palestine-israel-aid-1d689cc8?st=gVuBg1&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[Martinned]

Tap, tap...

Article 55 - Food and medical supplies for the population
To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.

The Occupying Power may not requisition foodstuffs, articles or medical supplies available in the occupied territory, except for use by the occupation forces and administration personnel, and then only if the requirements of the civilian population have been taken into account. Subject to the provisions of other international Conventions, the Occupying Power shall make arrangements to ensure that fair value is paid for any requisitioned goods.

The Protecting Power shall, at any time, be at liberty to verify the state of the food and medical supplies in occupied territories, except where temporary restrictions are made necessary by imperative military requirements.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-55?activeTab=

[ThePublius]

Another pointless post by Martinned. Occupying Power? How about power at war?

Hamas need only release the hostages and surrender to end this, as has been noted numerous times.

BTW, did you read the linked article?

[ReaderY]

The basic problem with your argument is that Israel isnmt an occupying power here. It is meeely beseiging Gaza, a standard and well-recognized military taxtic. The occupying power here is Hamas. It meets the definition perfectly. It is a Power with a military. It has defacto military control over Gaza, but no de jure right to it. That means its military presence in Gaza constitutes an occupation.

Why not direct your concern to its proper object and demand that Hamas, the occupying power, comply with its international obligations? Unless and until Israel defeats Hamas and actually re-occupies Gaza, it has no Occupying Power obligations. Hamas, who now occupies Gaza, has them.

Hamas doesn’t even have to surrender. It just has to stop doing things like “requisitioning foodstuffs.” You know, what the article you quoted says. It does stuff exactly like that. And then it and its shills try to bullshit-blame Israel for merely conducting an ordinary seige as militaries have long done in war.

An occupying power that violates Article 55 wholesale and tries to blame the enemy beseiging it for its own behavior has a level of chutzpah comparable to the Hitler shills who, noting that Hitler had duly stripped citizenship from Jews and then duly declared them enemy aliens when war broke out, argued that rounding them off and sending them off to camps was entirely within Germany’s rights as an enemy combatant, and under international law Germany had no responsibility for what happened to them once they left Germany’s borders.

After all, Auschwitz was part of Poland, and Germany’s de facto control over the territory was no more recognized by International law than Hamas’ curreent de facto control over Gaza. If Israel is responsible for everything Hamas does in Gaza, then Poland is responsible for what Germany did at Auschwitz.

[ThePublius]

Well said, thank you.

[tylertusta]

From the recently declassified Durham Appendix, Clinton campaign officials discuss their Trump-Russia plan that they had been working on for months:

From: Leonard Benardo
Sent: July 27, 2016

Hi,

HRC approved Julia's idea about Trump and Russian hackers hampering U.S. elections. That should distract people from her own missing email, especially if the affair goes to the Olympic level. The point is making the Russian play a U.S. domestic issue. Say something like critical infrastructure threat for the election to feel menace since both POTUS and VPOTUS have acknowledged the fact that IC would speed up searching for evidence that is regrettably still unavailable.

However there seems to be signs GRU penetration (cyrlic, 2.0 VPN elite VPN, Felix Edmundovich). They appear hardly skilled, "incompetent bumbling idiots" as smb [somebody] called them. In absence of direct evidence, Crowdstrike and ThreatConnect will supply the media, and GRU will hopefully carry on to give more facts.

Notably, after being shown the emails, all of the people in the Clinton campaign that Durham had interviewed were suddenly struck by a bout of collective amnesia.

Link to release:

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/newly-declassified-appendix-to-durham-report-sheds-additional-light-on-clinton-campaign-plan-to-falsely-tie-trump-to-russia-and-fbis-failure-to-investigate

[Bwaaah]

Of course, the essence of the counter-argument is that the FBI's investigation had NOTHING to do with that. But then, what difference would a behind-the-scenes FBI investigation make? ("We don't discuss ongoing investigations.")

Not only did Democrats succeed at breathing life into the Trump-Is-A-Russian-Stooge campaign, but all these years later, they're still successfully working the That-Was-Never-Disproven campaign.

Sleazy politicos needfully play partisans like fiddles, and partisans gladly serve themselves up to be played. Trump's a dick, amirite?

[jay.tee]

Trump is a d!ck, but that’s completely beside the point.

The most important outcome is to ensure it never happens again - neither party should be able to weaponize the IC, universities (GATech), the press, etc. to influence elections and hobble administrations. Unfortunately, I have very little hope the press will stop colluding with Democrats.

It’s really disappointing Democrats continue to put their energy into Russia conspiracies instead of working to implement reforms and preventing it from happening again (or even being done to them).

[Kazinski]

"and GRU will hopefully carry on to give more facts."

So the Democrats and Soros Open Society (Bernardo is Senior VP of OS) were actually hoping for Russian spy agency assistance in the plot?

[tylertusta]

That's the implication. Keep in mind that while these were evidently composite emails, Durham found enough to believe that they were still accurate.

[Bwaaah]

Formally speaking, any talk that includes the name "Soros" is a "conspiracy theory" (of the right wing persuasion) and can be dismissed as such regardless of the facts.

On the other hand, any theory of Trump's collusion with Russia is "well known," and formally speaking, is not a "conspiracy theory."

This is to say that your point falls on the deaf ears of people who don't believe in conspiracy theories.

As DMN would say, "That's a lie. That never happened."

[Magister]

Come back when even a Republican controlled Senate Intelligence Committee reports that George Soros has done anything questionable. It is reported that right wing billionaires contributed to Trump far more than Soros is worth.

[Brett Bellmore]

Looks like they're concerned that, as things stand, Israel may outright win.

Trump to Canada: Palestinian Recognition Could Cost Trade Ties

[Sarcastr0]

Who is ‘they?’

[Magister]

Based on past Bellmore comments? The Illuminati, the 39 Steps or the Manchurian Candidate, probably.

[Mr. Bumble]

Hey Brett, where you been? Your remora (Il Douche) misses trolling you.

[ThePublius]

English language competency and truck driving.

Should the U.S. require that CDL holders, i.e., bus and truck drivers, be able to speak and read (and understand) English?

I'm conflicted, as I've driven rental cars in France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Czech Republic, The Netherlands, etc., and I speak only English.

Wondering what you guys think. Is a passenger car different than a truck or bus, in this regard?

[Mr. Bumble]

" Is a passenger car different than a truck or bus, in this regard?"
Absolutely! Your regular drivers license will not allow you to drive a commercial vehicle in the US.

[ThePublius]

What's the best frozen dinner? I mean complete dinner: protein, starch, veg, maybe even dessert. I'm interested in brand, e.g., Hungry Man, Stouffer's, Lean Cuisine, etc., and also, what dish: turkey, meatloaf, chicken, lasagna, etc.

Thanks.

[BrotherMovesOn]

+ 1 to Magister
Hobie you're wasting your time debating Bwaaah.

[BrotherMovesOn]

Marie Callender's chicken pot pies are quite good.