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What Is A "Liberty Interest" And Why Does The Due Process Clause Protect It?
Once again, Justice Thomas raises questions the other Justices simply do not wish to answer.
I continue to make my way through the final decisions of the term. Next up is Gutierrez v. Saenz. At first blush, this is the sort of case you might skip over. Can a convicted murderer sue the District Attorney under Section 1983 to force him to test potentially exonerating DNA evidence? This dispute turns, in part, on whether the District Attorney's refusal to test the DNA deprives the defendant of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. To be clear, the Defendant was afforded more than the process he was due at the criminal trial, through the appellate process, and through collateral review. The constitutional question presented here is whether the refusal to test the DNA violates the Due Process Clause.
The Fifth Circuit panel did not reach the merits. Rather, the panel found that the Defendant lacked standing to bring the Section 1983 claim. The Supreme Court, by a vote of 6-3, reversed the lower court. Justice Sotomayor's majority opinion found that the Defendant had standing to bring the claim.
Justice Barrett concurred in judgment. She thinks the lower court misapplied Reed v. Goertz, but wrote that the Court's analysis "muddies the waters of standing doctrine." I wish the Process Formalist would have written more than a paragraph to explain why. But this is all we got.
Justice Alito dissented, joined by Justices Thomas and Gorsuch. Justice Thomas wrote a solo dissent that was enlightening and thought provoking: what do "life, liberty, or property" mean in the Due Process Clause? In particular, he addresses a question I've long wondered: what exactly is a "liberty interest?" This opinion raises similar issues as Thomas's Medina concurrence, which challenges the breadth of Section 1983.
First, Thomas returns to the themes of his Obergefell dissent with the meaning of "liberty." At common law, "liberty" referred to a freedom from physical restraint. Thomas cites Magna Carta, Coke, Blackstone, and other foundational sources.
This conception of liberty, however, was expanded during the Lochner era:
The original meaning of "liberty" in the Fourteenth Amendment was likely far narrower than our precedents currently hold. The term originally appears to have referred only to freedom from physical restraint. But, in the Lochner era, the Court began to hold that "liberty" includes fundamental rights generally. See Lochner v. New York, 198 U. S. 45 (1905). This Court has since adhered to that broader meaning.
Does Justice Thomas think the Lochner-era precedents concerning "fundamental" rights are consistent with the original meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment? Thomas does not say so expressly. He does say that the meaning of "liberty" in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment were the same. And he criticizes the notion of substantive due process. But he doesn't mention the Privileges or Immunities Clause here. Then again Thomas also seems to accept the list or "pre-political" rights from Meyer v. Nebraska, at least as a matter of precedent.
This Court eventually repudiated Lochner's muscular version of substantive due process—at least for economic rights. See Ferguson v. Skrupa, 372 U. S. 726, 730 (1963); West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 U. S. 379 (1937). But, the Court continues to treat Meyer's definition of "liberty"as authoritative. E.g., Roth, 408 U. S., at 572. . . .
The understanding of liberty as a natural right persisted until well after the enactment of the Fourteenth Amendment. Even as this Court expanded the notion of "liberty" in the Lochner era, it remained faithful to the idea of liberty as "individual freedom from governmental action, not as a right to a particular governmental entitlement." Obergefell, 576 U. S., at 726 (THOMAS, J., dissenting). None of the liberties enumerated in Meyer, for instance, could be characterized as state-created benefits.
I am not sure that Thomas has clearly settled this issue. He is a bit cagey, which is unusual.
Second, Thomas is quite clear that the Supreme Court's Due Process precedents from the 1970s were entirely wrong:
Some decisions of this Court, while recognizing the general principle that the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments' Due Process Clauses should be read together, have left open the possibility "that questions may arise in which different constructions and applications of [the Clauses] may be proper." French v. Barber Asphalt Paving Co., 181 U. S. 324, 328 (1901). Even assuming that caveat is correct, however, reading "liberty" in the Fourteenth Amendment to mean fundamental rights generally, see infra this page and 8, would appear to render the Fourteenth Amendment so broad that it would destroy the general rule that the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments should be read coextensively. And, even if "liberty" in the Fourteenth Amendment were entirely decoupled from its meaning in the Fifth Amendment, I am aware of nothing showing that the term was understood to encompass government entitlements before the 1970s.
Third, Thomas provides a useful summary of the meaning of "property" in the Due Process Clause.
Scholars generally agree that the term "property" in theDue Process Clauses originally referred only to those interests traditionally recognized as property at common law. Property at common law did not include entitlements to government benefits. See 2 Blackstone 16–19, 384–399; J. Kent, Commentaries on American Law 324–330, 613–614 (W. Browneed. 1894) (Kent). And, consistent with their general view of civil liberties, Americans at the founding and in the early Republic viewed property—like liberty—as a natural, prepolitical right. See, e.g., Virginia Declaration of Rights, §I,in Finkelman 154; Calder v. Bull, 3 Dall. 386, 388–389 (1798) (opinion of Chase, J.); H. Baldwin, A General View of the Origin and Nature of the Constitution and Government of the United States 136 (1837); Kent 203.
But the modern Supreme Court has deviated from this meaning in modern times. And Justice Thomas blames Charles Reich--who was Justice Alito's Constitutional Law professor.
In the 1960s, Professor Charles Reich of the Yale Law School published two articles proposing a radical reinterpretation of the concept of property. See Individual Rights and Social Welfare: The Emerging Legal Issues, 74 Yale L. J. 1245 (1965) (Individual Rights); The New Property, 73 Yale L. J. 733 (1964) (The New Property). Taking direct aim at the Framers' understanding, Reich argued that "[p]roperty is not a natural right but a deliberate construction by society" that could be redefined to meet contemporary social needs.
And Justice Thomas explains how the Supreme Court followed Reich in Goldberg v. Kelly, a decision that had no grounding in the text or history of the Constitution.
This Court embraced Reich's vision in 1970, holding that "welfare benefits" are property under the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause because they "are a matter of statutory entitlement for persons qualified to receive them." Goldberg, 397 U. S., at 261–262. The Court dismissed any distinction between "a 'privilege' and . . . a 'right,'" and did not attempt to ground its conclusion in thetext or history of the Due Process Clause. Id
Fourth, Thomas turns to the origin of the term "liberty interest."
As with property, the Court's redefinition of "liberty" was a conscious break with the past. The Court rejected the inquiry of "whether [a] parolee's liberty is a 'right' or a 'privilege'" as "hardly useful any longer." Morrissey v. Brewer, 408 U. S. 471, 482 (1972) (emphasis added). It expressly repudiated its earlier case law holding that probation, as "an 'act of grace,'" triggers no due process protections. See Gagnon v. Scarpelli, 411 U. S. 778, 782, n. 4 (1973) (quoting Escoe, 295 U. S., at 492). And, seemingly to obfuscate the awkwardness of referring to a government-created entitlement as "liberty," the Court began to speak instead of "liberty interests." Kenosha v. Bruno, 412 U. S. 507, 515 (1973) (internal quotation marks omitted). Although it is now standard terminology in due process litigation, the phrase did not appear in the United States Reports before Goldberg.
It seems "liberty interest" is some sort of constitutional chimera between liberty and property. Go figure.
Fifth, Justice Thomas returns to the case at hand. The defendant has invoked Osborne to justify his Section 1983 suit. But Section 1983 can only be invoked if there is an actual violation of a constitutional right. And if the defendant's claim turns on Goldberg v. Kelly, the claim must fail:
Osborne thus cannot support Gutierrez's asserted "liberty interest." We may, consistent with the judicial power, defer to earlier decisions that "apply traditional tools of construction and arrive at different," but reasonable, "interpretations of legal texts." Gamble, 587 U. S., at 721 (THOMAS, J., concurring). But, Osborne rests on nothing more than Goldberg's abandonment of the Due Process Clause's original meaning.
I don't think people value how much Justice Thomas does. No one else on the Court can do these sorts of deep dives into doctrines that make little sense. I hope the Court thinks twice before it expands any precedent based in Goldberg v. Kelly.
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That’s ok, Justice Thomas has plenty of rich friends who know how to express their appreciation.
Unlike you, who has no friends, of any income level, I think it’s the BO, I’ve got a 4 Letter word for you,
“S-O-A-P”
Use it, Live it, Love it
Whether Thomas has any rich friends I irrelevant to the question about whether liberty interest is protected by the due process clause. Ad hominem gonna ad hominem I guess.
My first reaction was, what a cheapskate that DA is! It's a murder conviction, and he's gonna skimp on a DNA test? He'd rather spend who knows how much pushing this all the way to the Supreme Court rather than run a DNA test?
Grok says DNA tests cost from $2000 up to $50,000. That's more than I expected, but I stand by my gripe. The DA is a cheapskate.
But I wonder if there's a bunch of face-saving and posturing going on here too. I wouldn't be surprised if his primary objection is not wanting to set a precedent and worrying that some DNA test some day might actually undo some erroneous conviction.
And the other side too. I bet there's plenty of do-gooders who would gladly pay for a DNA test if they really believed he was innocent; but I also bet there's plenty of anti-death penalty people who just want to make death penalties as expensive and hard as possible, and would rather spend their money causing legal trouble than pay for a DNA test which would probably fail because they think he really is guilty.
Of course, if I cared, I'd wade through transcripts and court documents, but I don't care that much.
FWIW I doubt $50,000 is close to typical.
My heuristic is that if the cost of fighting a DNA test is an order of magnitude greater than the cost of the test itself, the prosecution think there's a real chance that the convict is innocent.
I get the impression, too, that prosecutors feel no obligation to abide by the original theory of the case that led to the conviction - hence they will argue an alternative theory either in anticipation of, or subsequent to an apparently favourable (to the convict) DNA test.
A further point that Blackman overlooks - Thomas is fundamentally opposed to releasing people convicted of murder, and their guilt is secondary. Hence he will make whatever argument he can throw against a wall in order to keep a convict insider, regardless of innocence. Almost all his arguments are driven by motivated reasoning - which is very far from the deeply-thought-out and reasoned opinions that Blackman seems to think they are.
Do you guys ever get tired of making this lazy argument? Federal appeals courts are not error correcting courts. That's judicial usurpation. But I get it, you guys think every injustice should have a legal remedy, no matter what the law actually says.
Maybe you're right about federal courts in some way or another. But what is the history of this DNA test? Did it start with a local court which said NO and escalate up the chain of courts? Are you being just as knee jerk in ignoring that as this DA?
It's a damn murder conviction. Shouldn't the courts at least give a hoot or two about getting it right?
I don't see why an appeals court shouldn't order a DNA test.
Leaving the (highly non-trivial - it's a murder conviction, for Pete's sake) moral issues aside, how is this different from the prosecutor withholding possibly exculpatory evidence.
Of course, we don't know that the DNA test is exculpatory, but that's only because the prosecutor won't do it.
I haven't read the full opinion, but from my understanding there is no argument that the Petitioner is for real innocent. He claims he was only present and materially assisting but was not the one that physically killed the victim.
Under TX law, this makes no difference so a DNA test, even if it shows an absence of his DNA, would not change the outcome of the case.
You didn't even have to read the whole case, it's alluded to in the first paragraph, and stated outright in the second. The DNA test outcome would have no bearing on the case, no matter how it came out it wouldn't establish his innocence.
In most cases, DNA evidence can't demonstrate innocence, it can only prove or fail to prove guilt. This wasn't one of the exceptions.
Or, it may be that the evidence at trial so clearly establishes guilt that a DNA test is no more than a forlorn hope and an unnecessary burden on a tight budget.
So if fighting the DNA text costs more than the test itself and there's a tight budget, they should definitely test, right?
Or they are taking a stand right here. They don't want a precedent where certainly every death row inmate but every prisoner in the TX penal system with all sorts of time on their hands and free access to the courts can poke the system in the eye with a sharp stick by demanding DNA tests where the results won't matter.
The budget apparently isn't too tight to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court.
About 25 years ago I was involved in a commercial DNA testing lab.
Most of the business was paternity testing for state governments, but there was some forensic work as well.
IIRC, the cost of a forensic test was something like $500, plus travel costs, if needed, to testify.
No doubt it's more today, but $50,000 sounds absurd unless there are a lot of complications. Two thousand sounds more in the ballpark.
And there is another aspect to the cost business. An investigation and trial is expensive too. If it's a case where the DNA might establish innocence, then surely a lot of money might be saved by doing one early in the case.
Why does everyone focus on the $50K upper end when Grok said they start at $2000? Seems obvious to me that there can be a lot of reasons for it to vary.
You're probably talking $50K if you do a complete sequence on somebody's genome, which there is basically never any reason to do for non-research reasons. Normal DNA testing just looks at a sample of locations on the genes, which depending on why you're doing the test.
Now, I will say that I've read that fingerprints have turned out to not be nearly so unique as claimed unless you're very thorough about getting the entire print for each finger, and I would not be remotely shocked if the same were true with the limited sample DNA tests. We keep seeing cases where the certainty of forensic tests gets exaggerated. (Bite analysis, bullet matching.)
But, in this case, the outcome of the test is legally irrelevant. It is perfectly understandable that the DA would think it worth spending some serious bucks to establish that he doesn't have to perform legally irrelevant tests, because if he gave up on that point, he'd face major ongoing expenses.
The Divided Argument podcast goes pretty deep into this case including the history of liberty interests and the back and forth of when they attach.
It all starts about 20 minutes in.
https://dividedargument.com/episodes/schrodingers-innocence-right
The Court took a terrible wrong turn at the Slaughter-House Cases (1873) and has kept right on down that wrong road for 150+ years. It's probably way too late to turn back now.
But then what would nihilists point to when they're excusing their support for lawlessness?
Did you mean to reply to another post? Perhaps one on another website in another one of your open tabs? I honestly haven't the slightest inkling what that means. I don't know any nihilists. Are they in the habit of citing the Slaughter-House Cases in defense of lawlessness? I must admit I don't see the connection. Perhaps you should address your question to one of them. I imagine you know one or two, and, if not, you can probably easily find a few on Bluesky.
I find myself as puzzled as F.D.; What possible relevance did your comment have?
As with the Slaughter House cases, here we have a similar situation of over thinking the problem with legal gymnastics instead of doing what's right.
There wasn't any over-thinking in the Slaughterhouse cases, the Court outright deliberately spiked a constitutional amendment they didn't like, by giving it an 'interpretation' that largely rendered it moot.
The odd part of the whole discussion of a "liberty interest" seems like an argument in an alternate universe.
The 14A does protect liberty by saying that it can only be deprived after due process of law. So even if one understands something to be a liberty interest, it seems clear that it can be taken from you so long as due process of law is given.
Yes, I know the doctrine of substantive due process but that seems wholly made up and contrary to what is rather plain text.
Well, it is. It's just some BS they came up with to start incorporating the Bill of Rights selectively, without having to overturn Slaugherhouse and revive the P&I clause.
Which I guess they didn't want to do because Slaughterhouse was a economic liberty case, overturning it would be, (Gasp!) "Lochnerism".
And it might also have been because 'substantive due process' made it easier to just make things up as they went along, because P&I had inconveniently been largely specified during Congressional debates, so overturning Slaughterhouse would commit them to immediate incorporation of amendments 1-8.
Really, why they didn't just overturn Slaugherhouse when they finally got sick of tolerating Jim Crow is an interesting topic, but not one that reflects well on the Court.
You would have to dust off 150 year old books and try to define what those privileges or immunities of citizenship are. Sure, the first eight amendments in the BOR is a good start, but what else? Anything? The right to operate a slaughterhouse in Louisiana?
How do you go about defining them in a principled way?
But that's the thing about actually being principled: You do it anyway.
You'd go back to the Congressional debate, and see what the authors of the Amendment thought they were. If you take them seriously, the inquiry becomes unavoidable, because, as Howard said, " [I]t is a fact well worthy of attention that the course of decision of our courts and the present settled doctrine is, that all these immunities, privileges, rights, thus guaranteed by the Constitution or recognized by it are secured to the citizen solely as a citizen of the United States and as a party in their courts. They do not operate in the slightest degree as a restraint or prohibition upon State legislation...
The great object of the first section of this amendment is, therefore, to restrain the power of the States and compel them at all times to respect these great fundamental guarantee"
So, it's an inquiry that the courts can't avoid, because they encounter it every time they consider whether a federal action violates rights or not, even without considering the 14th amendment, which only sought to impose on the states those rights the federal government was already bound to respect.
In your opinion how would applying the PorI clause make a difference versus an originalist application of substantive due process?
The only thing I can see is that it would only apply to citizens. Would there be some rights that are afforded under PorI that skips over substantive due process or vice versa?
Well, of course, there is no such thing as an originalist application of substantive due process, as the very concept of 'substantive' due process is contrary to originalism.
But, aside from the fact that the P&I clause clearly does reserve P&I for citizens, while non-citizens only get due process and equal protection, I'd say the biggest difference is that we actually DO have some historical basis for identifying the rights that are P&I, while 'substantive' due process, being a somewhat modern oxymoron, arrived as a blank check for the Court.
Having read more of the opinion, this decision is terrible. At trial, his attorney knew about this piece of evidence but realized that it would make no difference in the outcome.
Therefore the attorney made a strategic choice not to have the evidence tested so he could argue that the State had failed to prove that he was the primary attacker. If he had it tested and it showed his client's DNA was present, the client was toast. He made the argument, it failed, and his client got sentenced to death.
Now, the Petitioner wants to take that eminently reasonable and IMHO good trial strategy and get the benefit of the "road not taken." In most habeas cases this gets you a quick denial. This case, along with Glossip will really be a boon to prisoners who want to endlessly litigate their sentences.
I guess time will tell if this is good for only death sentences or if it carries over to all criminal sentences.
The term "liberty" is vague and open-ended & in our national context, has been so since July 4, 1776.
The term in the 14A is similar, unclear & the multiple protections of Section One should not be applied in an overly formalist way. Privileges or immunities, due process, and equal protection overlap, and multiple SCOTUS opinions show how many disputes can be interpreted using multiple approaches.
(On that front, see Prof. Segall's piece today at Dorf on Law.)
"Liberty" has procedural and substantive aspects. Volokh Conspiracy contributors have discussed this, including how it was so understood at least back to before the 14A was ratified.
Liberty, especially in the modern regulatory state, will also involve governmental benefits. Due process of law involves providing them following certain procedural safeguards.
All of this would be true if The Slaughterhouse Cases were decided differently, as partially suggested by some discussions by the dissenters. The opinion very well might have resulted in putting more burden on the Due Process Clause, though not only that.
The specific claim in this case is a narrower matter than the wider questions posed by this blog post.
"Liberty, especially in the modern regulatory state, will also involve governmental benefits."
That is really a strained interpretation. I know we differ on most things, but would you concede that you are REALLY stretching to get to that? I mean, liberty is freedom, a "leave me alone"---not an entitlement to a benefit. That's just plain language.
"liberty is freedom"
"Freedom" has many aspects and merely "leave me alone" without more is not the only way it has been understood and applied.
For instance, the Four Freedoms of FDR, support or oppose them, is not merely about "leaving me alone."
I also said that it would "involve" benefits. For instance, if the government provides Medicaid (a benefit) but only to Catholics, that would be constitutionally problematic. The unconstitutional conditions principle has been in place for quite some time.
I will, however, go further. The Declaration of Independence speaks of the government being created to secure our liberties. Realistically, this will involve certain governmental benefits.
Public education is one example. The education of future adult citizens is fundamental to good citizenship, including to ensure informed jurors. Juries are fundamental to liberty in our system.
Some people support alternatives to public education. They too regularly support governmental aid (benefits), including voucher programs. They agree that education is essential to good citizenship and the promotion of liberty.
Justice Thomas’s historical analysis of “liberty” and “property” under the Due Process Clause is fascinating and really challenges how modern doctrines evolved, especially since Goldberg v. Kelly. It’s a reminder of how much legal meaning can shift over time. On a practical note, if you need accurate banking info for transactions, here’s the HSBC IBAN number for the UK: https://routingnumbers.uk/iban-code-for-hsbc-in-the-united-kingdom.