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Arkes: Is Skrmetti "The Best That Conservative Jurisprudence Can Really Serve Up Now, A Concurring Opinion in Buck v Bell?"
The conservatives "thought they were constrained from speaking by a jurisprudence that bars them from invoking truths beyond the text of the Constitution."
In Civitas Outlook, I discussed how the Skrmetti majority refused to even acknowledge the right of the people to govern based on morality. Instead, the Court hid behind technical and legal formalisms. Hadley Arkes states the issue far better than I ever could. Here is a snippet:
The truth that dares not speak its name here is that this wide array of gender-affirming therapies and surgeries is simply predicated on a falsehood. And yet those are the words that the conservative justices apparently see themselves as barred from speaking. Something in conservative jurisprudence holds them back from appealing to the inescapable and objective truth that lies at the heart of these cases. But without it, what were these accomplished jurists able to explain here? What was their ground of justification in overriding the judgments of those parents who were absorbed in the grief and confusion that seized their children? . . . .
The only "instruction" that would be relevant, Justice Thomas, is the unyielding fact that the child is in a state of confusion: he is not occupying some body apart from his own; his sex was not "assigned" at birth but marked inescapably in the organs of reproduction, in the arrangement of his body. His sex is immutable and printed plainly upon him.
Those were the words that Chief Justice Roberts and five colleagues could not move themselves to speak. Or they thought they were constrained from speaking by a jurisprudence that bars them from invoking truths beyond the text of the Constitution—even on the question of what is a human being, the bearer of rights, and when does that "human person" begin? . . .
Without those points in place, the judgment of the Court simply dissolves into a chain of ipse dixits. Why was it not legitimate for the parents of stricken youngsters to order the procedures that might relieve their "gender dysphoria?" Answer: The legislature of Tennessee did not think it a legitimate medical remedy to choose—even though the children and the parents did not share that judgment and were willing to take their risks. One judgment had to prevail, and it was the judgment backed by the power of the State. To put a high finish on it, that "power" represented the authority of a people to govern itself through elected representatives. But when the people speak through their representatives, and override the judgments of parents about their children, they are still obliged to say something more than "we have brute the power to impose this judgment through brute enactment of the law."
Hadley closes by comparing Chief Justice Roberts's decision to Justice Holmes's majority decision in Buck v. Bell.
Unless the Court can explain the grounds that truly compelled its judgment in this case, conservative jurisprudence falls back, as it ever has, on nothing more, as Justice Holmes had it, than the power of the majority to rule and get its way.
Roberts is fond of citing Holmes's Lochner dissent. I don't think the Chief will appreciate the apt comparison to one of Holmes's other decisions that did not age so well.
We should recall that Holmes's grand opinion quickly drew the accolades of the academy and the educated class, quite as enthralled with the romance of euthanasia, as their latter-day counterparts have been about climate change. And all of the ingredients are now again in place: a "controversial medical" procedure, along with people with medical degrees more than eager to show just how they do it; and the case for it seems compelling enough to be enacted into law by those educated people, often with law degrees, who fill out the legislature. But might we not be forgiven for asking: Is this the best that conservative jurisprudence can really serve up now, a concurring opinion in Buck v Bell?
I think my piece, Arkes's piece, and some other emails I've received, reflect a growing awareness of the current Court's deficiency. Since Justice Scalia's passing, I think the Court has lost its way. The fixation on installing Justices who will overrule Chevron has neglected moral foundation that Justice Scalia brought to the Court. Well, Chevron is gone and Roe is overruled. What's next? I think the answer is letting the people govern themselves once again. I do not think it is necessary for the Justices to themselves judge based on any sense of natural law. Unlike Arkes, I do not consider myself a natural law theorist--though I am JWI-curious. Rather, it is enough for judges to be comfortable letting the people govern based on these principles--even when laws might offend modern sensibilities of individual autonomy. I'll admit my views on this topic have changed over the years. I was always persuaded by Scalia over Kennedy as a legal matter, but I didn't quite fully understand why till I read Skrmetti. Now, with the emptiness of Chief Justice Robert's decision, things seem far clearer.
The Court seems open to that end in the Establishment Clause context, such as in Kennedy v. Bremerton and Carson v. Maikin. But the Court is still living in Justice Kennedy's shadow with regard to the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses. Current discussions about overruling Obergefell miss the point. If the people wish to maintain same-sex marriage, they can make that choice. But, the Court should allow the people to make that choice. As Scalia wrote in Obergefell, the Court disregarded "the freedom [of the people] to govern themselves."
I'll keep writing on this subject.
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“The truth that dares not speak its name here is that this wide array of gender-affirming therapies and surgeries is simply predicated on a falsehood.”
Is the idea that adopted children are the “sons” and “daughters” of the adopted parents predicated on a falsehood?
Um, yeah, if anybody were pretending that it meant biological children, it would be.
Like treating them equally to biological children in social and legal senses?
No, like treating them equally to biological children in terms of treating inherited diseases.
Right. The whole problem with this case was the attempt to use a legal framework in a context where it does not fit. There are basic biological differences between men and women. That may matter little when discussing, say, employment. But it matters a great deal when discussing medical treatment, particularly treatments related to gender. The notion that the law should treat administering testosterone to a male the same as to a female is absurd, since medically they are radically different.
The petitioner did not contest there are biological differences. They just thought those differences should be adjudicated under intermediate scrutiny.
The biological differences are huge and the difference in medical and mental health outcomes is huge. Should be based on rational basis.
Which even if you do, leads to the same result. These are radical medical treatments, that many authorities consider dangerous or ill-advised. The State has an interest in stopping them being administered to minors. As I said in the other thread, nothing in the law at issue prevents an adult from receiving the same treatments.
The same result however based on different reasoning could have a big impact on other cases.
Of course it does. I wrote that in the other thread. This was an easy case, because it involved medical procedures on minors. I would have decided it that way.
The majority's reasoning implies rational-basis review applies for the same prohibitions on adults.
Agreed. The EP clause cases based on sex were all of a type of invidious discriminations that centered around stereotypes against the sexes, like how men should be preferred over women in managing estates.
It is a square peg/round hole argument to extend that to basic biology in medical treatments. My doctor doesn't fail to give me birth control pills because he hates men or require that I have a prostate exam but not my wife because he favors women.
I don't think intermediate scrutiny is appropriate because the law doesn't even begin to raise the spidey senses that something invidious is going on because of sex.
the spidey senses
Maybe someone should tell the Justices that with great power comes great responsibility. 😉
No, that is a rational. The idea that an adopted son is a female in male body would be the falsehood.
It's genuinely wild to see Josh get so mad about Skrmetti—not because his team lost, but because they didn't win hard enough.
This! It's childish, frankly.
He wanted deliberate misgendering, wild accusations of “grooming,” and a footnote talking about “troons”
“deliberate misgendering”
We call that the “Kyle Duncan” around here
I don't really care about somebody's "gender". I'll refer to them by their sex, instead.
Because you are a jerk.
Because that's what "he" and "she" refer to: Sex, not "gender".
Trying to logic your way out of go-along-to-get-along common courtesies in interacting with other people is a trademark of jerks.
"Trying" is right. He and she do refer to gender. Always have, always will.
States regulate medical practice.
It's not for the SCOTUS to opine on the truth of gender.
It's not for the SCOTUS to opine on the truth of gender.
Exactly. SCOTUS is not a ministry of truth. It correctly ruled that the Tennessee law at issue did not violate the EPC. It did not, and has should not have done, anything else.
When I want to find out objective biological and medical truths or understand child psychology, I turn to an 86 year old political scientist who decided to convert to Catholicism from Judaism at age 70.
Appellate judges' role is not finding the truth. Factfinding is a process primarily reserved to the district judges. SCOTUS was asked to answer, two main legal questions: whether the law classifies on the basis of suspect class, and whether transgender status is a suspect class.
Now, if they did held it as using sex classification (or discriminating against transgender people), then they probably would remand to address the state interest issue. That one is more fact-intensive. Lower courts would have had to deal with intervening factual developments.
"Factfinding is a process primarily reserved to the district judges."
Primarily, but not exclusively: As the court of last resort, the Supreme court IS entitled to find that the lower courts got something factually wrong, though they're usually reluctant to do so unless it's really blatant and consequential.
Also Scalia was a well-known asshole who thought that the constitution didn’t prohibit the execution of innocent people. He also used Henry McCollum as an example of how capital defendants weren’t ever innocent anyway. Turns out he was innocent and Scalia never commented on being so over-the-top wrong, let alone apologize. It’s good he or someone similar isn’t the moral center of the court.
He was also a homophobe, to the point of hysteria.
"Also Scalia was a well-known asshole who thought that the constitution didn’t prohibit the execution of innocent people."
The government doesn't HAVE direct access to a person's guilt or innocence, it has procedures for determining the same. And those procedures are, inevitably, less than 100% accurate, so unless you're going to give up on punishing people at all, you need to accept that you're sometimes going to be punishing innocent people. And if you're going to have a death penalty, some of THOSE people will be innocent, too.
Doesn't basically every state, in addition to the federal government, have a pardon and/or clemency process, generally routed through the executive branch? Isn't that the proper resort when the entire judicial process has run its course, and you still think the outcome unjust?
In Davis' case, the Georgia board of pardons and paroles is where you should direct your ire, if indeed ire is justified. Reading the wikipedia page, your certainty that Davis wasn't guilty seems unjustified.
“Reading the wikipedia page, your certainty that Davis wasn't guilty seems unjustified.”
….what? Where did I say any of this.
Yeah, I didn't even notice that I'd searched for McCollum, and the increasingly worthless Google had directed me to Davis. My bad.
My memory is getting increasingly spotty. Damn, getting old is hell.
Not exactly accurate regarding Scalia’s view of due process if you’re suggesting that he believed someone could be executed without a fair trial and appellate review. Scalia was brilliant. Too bad we don’t have the technology to clone him.
His view was that it didn’t matter if someone was actually innocent and had evidence demonstrating that, it would be constitutional to execute them as long as they had a trial and appeal. Courts were under no obligation to ever consider it no matter the circumstances. And it turns out there were circumstances where people were actually innocent despite being tried and convicted.
Also Scalia once defended torture by using the fictional tv show 24 as an example. Thinking television is real life isn’t the sign of a brilliant person.
Scalia really needed a PR person for that opinion. His point was that courts don't perpetually continue to judge guilt or innocence. You have a jury trial and after that punishment may be imposed.
If something slipped through the cracks and an injustice was being done, that's what executive clemency was for, not a 9th habeas corpus petition back to SCOTUS.
His point was that the petitioner was looking in the wrong place for relief. Yes, it sounded pretty cold hearted, but the guy was committed to making sure that courts stayed in their proper lane.
I got some blowback in a comment a few weeks back by stating the obvious: not every injustice has a judicial remedy.
That really upset some people. You summarize well here Scalia articulating that principle. It's the opposite of the rule of law for courts to violate law and precedent, outside their authority or jurisdiction, to undo what any particular judge considers unjust. LTG thoroughly misrepresents that law yet typifies everything wrong with "liberal" jurisprudence. It should be indisputable that appellate courts like SCOTUS do not continuously rejudge criminal convictions. Not their superpower. Not even if one tries tries reaching for equity.
He also gutted the Second Amendment by ruling that the one area it doesn't apply is militias.
It wasn't gutting. That would be the gun grabbers who think that a well-regulated militia means they can regulate the militia out of existence. That is what gutting looks like. The militia preceded any American state, and was based on the premise of an armed citizenry. Subsequent creation of the "national guard" with state supplied weapons does not mean the state can forbid privately owned weapons. Because THAT is still also the militia.
I dunno, the fact that Scalia made it ok to prohibit militia-appropriate arms from militias seems like a gutting to me. A handgun militia? Lol.
I think the point was that Scalia said that clearly useful militia weapons like the M-16 could be banned but that weapons that are not particularly useful for militia service like Dick Heller's .22 revolver are protected is usual to say the least.
And this is after he concludes that the militia purpose informs what types of weapons people can own for self defense.
I agree that it is a poorly reasoned opinion on that front.
I'm confused by the analogy to Buck.
Is the argument that rational-basis deference to the majority on medical treatments is wrong because you end with Buck? So, heightened scrutiny is required in both cases? And, a moral argument suffices?
Is there no difference in a law which bans a treatment versus one that requires it?
Me too. Although Buck certainly has not aged well, its rationale is clear: Feeble minded people should not be allowed to reproduce. It wasn't a morals law nor did it say we passed the law because we can.
It said that we have a legitimate interest in not having the next generation of imbeciles. I mean, you can disagree with it, but it wasn't a secret why they ruled they way they did.
I wasn't clear in my comment. I should have said, "Is the argument that rational-basis deference to the majority on medical treatments is wrong because you end with a plausible concurrence in Buck?" That is, Skrmetti provides an alternative justification for Buck.
I'm still not buying it because you need not give deference for a mandated procedure even if you do for a banned one.
As Scalia wrote in Obergefell, the Court disregarded "the freedom [of the people] to govern themselves."
Did he know about the opinions regarding handguns, violent video games, and guns near schools?
This pablum, to be fair, is not just cited by JB. Others toss it around when they mean "except what the Constitution - and not just always in clearly explicit terms - doesn't allow them to do."
He could also be openly contemptuous of state decisions to govern themselves in ways he simply didn’t like. If you read his Atkins dissent it’s pretty apparent that he’s appalled that there developed a consensus among states that executing the intellectually disabled was a bad thing.
Part of the way the people govern themselves is by actually writing some of their decisions into the Constitution. The Court disregards their freedom of self-government just as much by ignoring what the people HAVE put into the Constitution, as by pretending that the Constitution mandates things the people didn't put into it.
"the right of the people to govern based on morality"
This is exactly what we don't want. More government telling people how to run their lives based on the opinions (commonly religious) of those in power.
"One person's rights end where another's begins" needs to be the foundation of our laws.
I'd love that, but I'm still an anarchist at heart, and that would leave no room for government.
I'm sure we disagree on many things, but I'm glad there are libertarians (or even anarchists) like you in the comment section. personally, I'm left libertarian. we probably have polar opposite views of morality, but we can both agree it's none of the government's business.
The thing is, "One person's rights end where another's begins" is itself a view of morality. Morality is unavoidable once you utter "ought" instead of "is".
Exactly right. All laws are expressions of morality at some level.
When people say they don't like morality-based legislation, that doesn't mean they want immoral or amoral legislation. It just means that they don't want morality to be the only motivation.
Legislation that's about morality and nothing else is nanny-state overreach.
they are still obliged to say something more
They did. They said that in their opinion, the treatment was unsafe. Government often prohibits people from choosing unsafe behaviors like driving around without a seatbelt.
Seems like Josh and Arkes are admitting what the rest of us already know: that explanation is a pretext for the real one, animus.
Calling bigotry "morality" is the bigot's most favored rhetoric.
If we are taking bets put me down for one that there will be no more decisions that rely on an "animus" rationale without a Justice Kennedy writing an opinion.
It really was his own invention and if applied generally it makes no sense. I mean, I certainly have animus towards child molesters but that doesn't make those law suspect because of that.
Barrett mentioned in her concurrence that she wouldn't consider "animus" to be "rational."
The other place animus shows up is in religious liberty cases, and the conservatives love finding animus in that context.
I think animus is still alive on the court.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means (in this context, as used by Justice Barrett).
Do go on.
*> I mean, I certainly have animus towards child molesters but that doesn't make those law suspect because of that.*
the State has a legitimate interest in protecting children from sexual abuse, so CSEM laws have a rational basis. forbidding sex offenders from working in childcare roles has the same basis. a hypothetical law that forbids sex offenders from collecting Medicaid would be pure malice, and wouldn't survive RBT. it's not absolute.
Calling having a lick of common sense "bigotry" is the left's go-to these days. All you're doing is depriving the accusation of any force.
Conflating bigotry with "common sense" is another of the bigots' favorite defenses.
When, if ever, will we allow people autonomy over their own bodies?
"JWI-curious"?
I believe he means James Wilson Institute-curious, the organization that Arkes is part of and that supports natural law theories. But I’m not ruling out the possibility he’s referring to the Jewish Women’s International.
The Founders abominated homosexual behavior. IT is perverted and sick and a cancer in society. Always it gets back to Lincoln's observation about the evil of his time, the slavers : They don't want us to say it is legal, no, they want us to say it is a social good !!!
At first I was unconvinced by your argument, which boils down to "I don't like it." But I was ultimately persuaded by your three exclamation points.
The Founders abominated homosexual behavior.
1. You have no idea what the Founders, or any individual among them, thought about homosexual behavior.
2. The Founders' (no doubt varied) thoughts on the matter have no relevance to any related issue today.
3. What do you estimate the probability that at least one, probably more, of the 39 delegates who signed the Constitution was, or had a close relative or friend who was, homosexual?
Blackman wrote an essay on "What Skrmetti Should Have Said", and a couple of hours later he decides that Skrmetti should have said something else.
"the court should allow the people to make that choice."
I'm assuming Professor Blackman comes to the same conclusion for a lot of other issues such as Obamacare individual mandates, Obamacare birth control mandates, gun control laws, campaign finance limits, property condemnation ...
Uh oh.
I'll keep writing on this subject.
Promise or threat?
"But when the people speak through their representatives, and override the judgments of parents about their children, they are still obliged to say something more than "we have brute the power to impose this judgment through brute enactment of the law.""
I disagree. We the people are allowed to structure our society how we see fit and allow and disallow what we deem appropriate. Courts are not super-legislatures who should sit in judgment regarding the wisdom of every law that is passed.
That is generally true when suspect classes are not involved so I do feel like it was a cheat for the majority not to go where Barrett, Thomas, and Alito went and address that question to which I think the answer is clearly no that transgenderism is not a protected class.
How do you reconcile this viewpoint with Meyer v. Nebraska, from the famously left-wing 1920's court, that prohibited the state from not allowing German instruction for children against a parent's wishes?
And do you agree that the state can impose vaccination requirements on children despite their parents' wishes? Just curious...
the unyielding fact that the child is in a state of confusion... His sex is immutable and printed plainly upon him.
I don't get this argument. The "state of confusion" has a medically accepted treatment. Tennessee is withholding that treatment from patients who need it and whose parents want them to have it. Nobody is denying that she was born with a penis, least of all her. Her flagrant penis is the whole point, if you think about it.
"The "state of confusion" has a medically accepted treatment."
Right, and anemia used to have a medically accepted treatment: Bleeding.
You'd like to think the practice of medicine was more scientifically grounded today, but it's actually increasingly political, and psychiatry is probably the most political branch of medicine of all.
The state of Tennessee has decided they're not humoring the medical profession on this one, and rightfully so.
That's the argument Tennessee was making (whether or not you buy it).
Arkes was making some sort of different, nonsensical argument.
A law based on a purely moral judgment, without more, would violate the equal protection clause because it would discriminate against against a non-suspect class without a rational basis. If "you're not allowed to do X because we've simply decreed that doing X is bad" is not an arbitrary use of power, then I don't know what is. There has to be some justification in terms of the law's tangible costs and benefits, not just the emotional feelings people get from knowing other people are engaging in behavior you disapprove of. There is a point at which the power of the people to govern themselves yields to the power of a person to govern himself or herself.
What the freak are you talking about? A great deal of the legal code is based on nothing more than purely moral judgment.
I mean, as a goal to aspire to, that's fine. As a description of our actual legal system, it's fantasy.
Like what?
That's a serious question?
Even laws against robbery are implementing a moral judgment concerning property rights.
What you describe might be a wonderful society to base a rule of law upon but it is nowhere close to being the one we have. The law has historically allowed majorities to prohibit certain activities based upon nothing but their moral preferences.
Adultery, fornication, sodomy, Sabbath breaking, cockfighting, prostitution, bestiality, drug use, incest, etc. etc.
Most of those are terrible examples (they have a rational victim or have already been found unconstitutionally irrational).
Probably the best examples are the animal-cruelty ones. Is preventing animal cruelty rational or a purely moral issue? I think the best answer is that it's rational, on the basis that we too are animals, so it's rational to believe that animals have some analogous interests worth protecting.
It seems that in this context if the law suits your moral beliefs then it is rational. If not, irrational.
"on the basis that we too are animals" How is that anything other than a moral belief?
Uh, that is a statement of biology, not a moral belief.
CARING if there's a rational victim is a moral judgment!
I think maybe you're just somehow overlooking the is/ought problem in moral philosophy. The moment you move from saying, "You'll do this because I want you to, and I have the power to punish you if you don't!" to justifying the law on some basis, you're engaged in moral reasoning. You can call it a rational basis, but without morality, rationality doesn't get you to "ought".
First of all, just because something has a moral dimension doesn't make it irrational, so your examples like robbery being immoral are stupid.
In other words, moral philosophy is largely rational, silly. Didn't you ever go to college? The intro philosophy course is typically Logic 101!
You're totally wrong about rationality not getting to "ought." All "ought" requires is the vindication of a "rational" interest, which is exactly what courts
The courts generally look for tradeoffs between legitimate interests as the indicator that a law is rational. A property interest counts as legitimate, so banning robbery is rational. Cruelty for its own sake isn't legitimate.
An interest is legitimate, generally, if it's either an aspect of a well-established right (this is where moral philosophy gets incorporated) or is a material or concrete benefit. Purely emotional interests (that aren't related to rights) don't cut it.
I don't think something having a moral dimension makes it irrational. You can morally reason rationally OR irrationally, moral reasoning is orthogonal to rationality. Morality picks the destination, rationality charts a course to get there. If you pick a destination and then chart a course away from it, that's irrational, but if the course would actually get you there, that's rational.
"You're totally wrong about rationality not getting to "ought.""
Take a good dose of Hume and you might get over that mistake.
The "legitimate" in your "legitimate interest" is where the courts are importing morality. They have no basis independent of morality for determining if an interest is "legitimate".
They have no basis independent of morality for determining if an interest is "legitimate".
Sure they do. The Constitution, for example, is a basis for understanding rights. So is common law.
You might say that the Constitution and common law themselves have no basis, and that's where you can argue Hume vs Locke vs Thomas Aquinas or whatever, but that's irrelevant here. The Constitution and common law are a sufficient basis for the courts' rationality analysis.
What I describe IS the rule under the US Constitution if you accept the premise that the equal protection clause requires, at minimum, a rational basis for every law. Rational basis scrutiny is not the same thing as no scrutiny. There needs to be a better justification of a law than "the thing it proscribes is bad, m'kay." I'm not saying rational basis scrutiny is hard to pass, it just requires more of a justification than claiming a moral axiom is the revealed truth. For example, you could justify a law against Sabbath breaking on the rational basis that citizens are more productive if they have a day off and it would be more orderly if everyone did it on the same day, but you couldn't just rely on the assertion that God handed tablets to Moses on the mountain top.
"There needs to be a better justification of a law than "the thing it proscribes is bad, m'kay.""
Nah, that's actually the ultimate basis of law, when it's not, "Submit or be punished! Up to you."
Rape is bad, m'kay. Somebody says, "So what?", how do you answer them? With another assertion they can say "So what?" to? You've got either "Do as I say or be punished, make your choice.", or morality, there is no third justification for the law.
I understand your argument that, at bottom, there is always some axiom that has to be accepted without proof before you can rationalize anything. There does not need to be a complete absence of value judgments in order to pass rational basis scrutiny. Rather, the ultimate value judgment must be articulable in terms of the government's interests. If I am recalling law school correctly, the test is something along the lines of "rationally related to a legitimate government interest." Using your example of rape, a law prohibiting rape would be rationally related to the government's interests in protecting life, liberty, and property (especially liberty). There is a value judgment there, but its an allowable one under the applicable test. What I don't think the government could get away with is saying that rape should be illegal simply because we looked at the stars and the constellations told us that rape is bad. The bottom line axiom has to relate to the functions of government in a free society.
Your view would lead to absurd results. State A could pass a law against Sabbath breaking and if they said the correct thing the law would be upheld. Then State B could pass the exact same law but if they said the wrong thing the law would be struck down.
And who are the "they" saying the wrong thing? If one legislator says something stupid the whole law is struck down. Must every law be argued effectively by the Attorney General lest the state be divested of power to pass it? Must it suit a judge's fancy that the law is suitably based on rationality instead of morality? As we've seen, there really isn't a dime's worth of difference--every moral law can be rationalized and vice versa.
What is to stop the whole thing into turning into a judicial referendum on the law?
You mean like in Cakeshop?
> The only "instruction" that would be relevant, Justice Thomas, is the unyielding fact that the child is in a state of confusion: he is not occupying some body apart from his own; his sex was not "assigned" at birth but marked inescapably in the organs of reproduction, in the arrangement of his body. His sex is immutable and printed plainly upon him.
trans people are no more "confused" about our sex than gay people are "confused" about the sex of their partner. I know I was born male. I know from tests that I have XY chromosomes. I transitioned because the masculine physical characteristics of my body made me miserable. that's what gender dysphoria is.
take the disgust and revulsion you feel when you see a visibly trans person. hold onto that feeling, and imagine you found yourself in a body like that. imagine what it would feel like to find yourself with large breasts and beard hair. it's gross! you'd feel gross! that's what having a totally male body felt like, for me, *before* I transitioned. it's not a perfect analogy, but it's the closest you can come to the feeling of what dysphoria is like.
I decided, a decade ago, to use medicine to alter my body so it would feel less gross. I'm happier now. I'm much less happy than I would have been if I could have started HRT before puberty, since the effects would have been much stronger, but I'm in a survivable place now.
the issue isn't confusion. the issue is how to treat gender dysphoria. the question of "biological reality" doesn't enter into it - I am extremely aware of biological reality, since it's what I seek to change. the questions are:
1. what treatment for gender dysphoria has the best patient outcomes? does conversion therapy work? how well does HRT work? how transient is gender dysphoria in childhood? what's regret and long-term satisfaction like? these are highly politicized but intrinsically scientific questions with objective answers.
2. does moral opprobrium justify prohibiting transition? does the State have the right to ban HRT, if the existence of trans people offends the people on moral or religious grounds? that's the political question. Romer says no. even if the Court overrules Romer and finds that the State can, Thomas has no business imposing his own moral views from the bench.
Well put. In essence, Thomas (and Blackman) have begged the question does gender identity exist as a trait?
More to the point of trans rights, for you to gain your rights, you will have to convince the public that gender identity is a trait, and to do that will require the utmost visibility of trans people. That's how the sea change in gay rights occurred between DOMA and the acceptance of marriage equality in only 2 decades. Harvey Milk was right: coming out, not voting, was the way to win your rights.
Up until that point, gay rights opponents were able to use wedge issues like the military and children (they will be recruited) to divide support. It reminded me of how partial-birth abortion was used against abortion rights (it failed!). For trans rights, it's sports and safe spaces.
Your problem is there is likely an order-of-magnitude fewer trans people than gay people. That makes your case a tougher row to hoe.
Does racial identity exist as a trait? Vocational identity? The various other kinds of identity that judges have from time to time opposed, even thought it their business to eradicate? It’s not clear to me that federal judges are equipped, let alone authorized, to decide such things.
No to both racial and vocational identity. Gender identity stands alone because 100+K Americans have gender dysphoria for which gender-affirming care is the most successful treatment (the answers to the first set of questions notorious poses are the key).
I don't think that there is any dispute that it is a "trait." Certainly the prior poster and I, both biological males, have a completely different idea about how our bodies fit into this world.
The question is whether it is a *protected trait such that it must be recognized in law. I'm not sure what "rights" you are referring to as the prior poster and I can both vote, serve on juries, own guns, etc.
The poster seems to be asking for something more than that. And the issue that comes to the forefront is a demand that OTHERS view the poster according to wishes that others might not share. That is not privacy and those are not "rights." You don't have a right to demand an opinion of others.
> The poster seems to be asking for something more than that. And the issue that comes to the forefront is a demand that OTHERS view the poster according to wishes that others might not share. That is not privacy and those are not "rights." You don't have a right to demand an opinion of others.
nothing I wrote seeks to compel you, or the State, or the Justices, to see me as a woman. I'm not demanding any opinion of you. I'm writing about access to HRT.
In addition to access to gender-affirming care, trans rights ask for non-discrimination. To get there, it will require the public to voluntarily accept that gender identity is a trait such that being trans is worthy of respect (e.g., it's Ms. McBride, not Mr. McBride).
So you agree with me in that it is forcing others to accept certain things---not a simple request that one be left alone. The public is "required" to "voluntarily" accept certain things. Shades of Orwell there.
He said it required accepting that being trans is a trait, which you already said was indisputably true. So where's the beef?
But those are linked. In order for the people of the state of TN to recognize HRT as a legitimate medical practice, they must agree that some biological men need treatment to be viewed as a woman.
No, they only need to agree that some biological men have a medical condition. Treatment decisions can be left up to doctors, patients, and parents.
But liberals also act on feelings of disgust and revulsion. A claim that someone or something makes someone uncomfortable is simply an expression of disgust and revulsion. Absent physical violence, when people feel harassed, they are just feeling disgusted and revolted by the person or what they believe the person stands for. Moreover, exactly like conservatives, they use these feelings of disgust and revulsion for virtue-signaling purposes. By expressing disgust and revulsion towards something that goes against their ideology, they are displaying status and seeking approval within their group. Consider, for example the way things like wearing Confederate symbols are treated in liberal circles.
You may prefer liberals’ sense of disgust to conservatives’. But as a matter of pure anthropology, psychology, and sociology, the feelings are the same, and they perform the same psychological and social functions.
In general, absent physical violence, the question of whether A is harassing B or whether B has irrational animosity towards A cannot be determined other than by ones ideological orientation. Sometimes, in order to have an orderly society that doesn’t devolve into conflict and violence, and in order to get the next generation to follow paths the previous one thinks beneficial, calls have to be made. But all such calls are tentative. Courts should respect them and not try to substitute their own. But they also need to understand that these calls are not absolute and will sometimes need to evolve over time.
This is the stupidest thing you've ever written. If A is denying medical treatment to B, A is harassing B. Simple.
You're portraying (and I hope I'm not being too reductionist) your position as "I was born male, but I wish my body were different; I'm much happier with having female physical characteristics than male ones."
That's very different than, e.g., Chase Strangio [AFAB]'s position, which is, "I am a man. Therefore, whatever physical characteristics I have are by definition male characteristics."
(I'm not making any point about how this affects the Skrmetti case; I'm just addressing a specific point.)
It is absolutely not the province of courts to inject their own notions of supposed “inescable objective truth” into decision making, whether it’s the supposed objective truth that black people are inherently inferior to white people, the objective truth that a fetus is simply a part of a woman’s body, or this new supposed objective truth.
Rather, judges should act humbly, refrain from assuming that the world really is as they happen to perceive it, and let legislative processes decide difficult social questions not provided for in the Constitution.
I have long argued that states have the right to legislate morality. But while I do so because the constitution permits it, I have some affinity for thereasons the ancient Skeptics gave. We don’t actually for sure know who’s wrong and who’s right in these matters; one generation’s sure truths sometimes become a future generation’s falsehoods. This is why free speech is so important: the minority gets a chance to persuade the majority that they are wrong. But it also means we go with the majority because, if they are wrong, at least the people are accountable to themselves for their own mistakes.
Courts are not all-knowing philosopher-kings entitled to force their own views of morality on the people. Courts’ views of morality are no better than anyone else’s.
The fact that we believe and feel very strongly that something is true does not make it true. This is a fundamental fallacy many people suffer from.
Professor Blackman’s endorsement of judicial activism to force conservative moral ideology on the public is as wrongheaded as liberal judicial activism to force liberal moral ideology. The people have to work these things out for themselves as best they can.
Professor Blackman’s endorsement of judicial activism to force conservative moral ideology on the public is as wrongheaded as liberal judicial activism to force liberal moral ideology. The people have to work these things out for themselves as best they can.
Where do you see in his argument that courts should be the ones enforcing morality? He is arguing that legislatures can do so, and should not be interfered with by the courts.
Disagree. Professor Blackman is clearly quoting an opinion that sharply criticizes the Justices for upholding the law on the lame and namby-pamby ground that it is within the power of the legislature, not for what the opinion considers the correct reason, “the truth that dare not speak its name,” that the law is true, good, and right.
Hadley Arkes is criticizing the Justices for lamely letting legislatures determine and impose their own sense of morality. Instead, he is calling on them to invoke “truths beyond the text of the constitution” and uphold the law because it reflects absolute, true, real morality, which is another way of saying Hadley Arkes’ sense of it.
Thank you for this, Prof. Blackman. I love Hadley Arkes. I did not know he was still active (or even still alive, to be honest). As noted, he is mostly known as an advocate for natural law principles in jurisprudence. Like Blackman, I am not a true believer in Arkes' judicial philosophy, but have always enjoyed his work and have found it very thought-provoking. (Arkes himself is not an attorney.)
Years ago, I read Arkes' The Return of George Sutherland: Restoring a Jurisprudence of Natural Rights (1994). Justice Sutherland was the intellectual leader of the Four Horsemen on the Court, and the only one of them still generally well regarded in the legal community (for whatever that's worth). I find most modern libertarians, in general, to be rather shallow thinkers, with little, if any, grounded philosophy. They parrot Sutherland's judicial opinions, but don't really understand it, namely its deep roots in natural law. (Justice Homes' positivist legal philosophy, with which I am more aligned, is the antithesis of this).
When leftist rail against "originalism" and "textualism", they don't seem to realize what "winning" the argument will lead to: a conservative "living constitutionalism".