Monday Open Thread

What's on your mind?

Comments

[Dr. Ed 2]

Floride --- It's not just the loons who oppose it now.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20250528-why-some-countries-dont-fluoridate-their-water?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

It IS toxic, like arsenic, it also leaches into water from rocks.
And we know more about low level toxicity than we did 70 years ago.

[not guilty]

Floride? Is that the name of JJ's mother on Good Times?

[Stephen Lathrop]

On America's southern east coast, it is a pervasive environmental contaminant, and a human affliction. It accounts for Florida Man.

[Voize of Reazon]

DY-NO-MITE!!

[Riva]

Nice racist twist to your trolling NG, if you’re going for the ignorant racist troll look, coupled with a touch of spelling Nazi.

[not guilty]

What on earth do you claim is racist here, Riva?

[Riva]

You latch on to a typo with an attempted reference to a black television character but mock the character’s name with the misspelling.

Next time, you’ll have to figure out the meaning of your trolling comments all by yourself. I’m done with you today.

[not guilty]

Begging the question much, Riva?

My sarcasm was directed to Dr. Ed 2, who deigned to comment about a topic that he can't even spell correctly. If I had referred to Barney Fyfe or Gomer Pile, would you call those misspellings anti-white racism?

[Riva]

He didn't mock the black character. You did.

[not guilty]

I didn't mock anyone other than Dr. Ed 2, Riva.

[Frank Drackman]

You could be a Case Report, and Poster Boy!

[Martinned]

It IS toxic

So is water, if you drink enough of it.

[grb]

As any diver will tell you, oxygen is brutally toxic if ya breath enough of it.

[Moderation4ever]

I don't think that fluoride should be a big issue. About 15% of Americans use well water that only has natural levels fluoride. Large numbers of Americans today also drink bottled water which may or may not have added fluoride. You likely can select a a water that does or doesn't have fluoride. Finally there are plenty of toothpastes and rinses with fluoride on the market.

What I would like to see as an issue is getting more dental care for young children especially low income kids. So, maybe the country can reduce added fluoride to the water supply and instead use the money to broaden children's dental care.

[Brett Bellmore]

I don't know, I'd say there's at least as much evidence for fluoride being a big deal as for iodine. It's certainly possible to get too much during critical developmental periods, and end up with a modestly reduced IQ. And though the recommended concentration in drinking water is below the level at which research starts to see that effect, it's not very far below it.

I think your tradeoff is probably reasonable; Flouride makes more sense as a topical treatment than just being routinely dumped into our water.

[Sarcastr0]

We don't know anything like this yet.

We have one study, which by it's own terms is not enough to make policy from even if it were confirmed.

Should we get cracking at confirming/extending the results? Absolutely!
But drawing conclusions, much less policy implications, is nowhere near ready.

Sure, idiot neo-Brichers are all over this, but they're no more here for reason or truth than they were when they called Eisenhower a communist sympathizer.

[Dr. Ed 2]

You have the option of using non-iodized salt and this is essential for some cooking practices.

I can assure you that your car's radiator doesn't want it...

[Dr. Ed 2]

Canada went bilingual to appease Quebec.

Quebec said "bleep you" and went French Only -- even though the Canadian supreme court said it violated something, Quebec did it anyway.

MacDonalds can not have the word "hamburgers" on its signs, and menus must be in French only.

Now they've gone further:
https://thewalrus.ca/bill-21-quebec/?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

[Martinned]

Yes, isn't nativism terrible?

[Moderation4ever]

If you are ever visiting Quebec I recommend taking in the Changing of the Guard ceremony at the fort in the old city. It is a ceremony with all the hallmarks of the British pomp. The most interesting thing about the ceremony is while it is British in its nature, the commands are all in French.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I recommend winter carnival...

[ducksalad]

Vacationed in Quebec for five days in January 2024. Ate out at least twice a day. Most every menu I saw had both French and English on it. If there's really a French-only law they're not enforcing it very carefully.

(They might be enforcing it selectively against big US chains; the KFCs were labeled PFK. But I never thought to go all the way there to eat at McDonalds or KFC, so maybe they've got legal menus.)

Hard to tell on the hijabs because it was well below freezing and all the women had their heads covered anyway.

[Moderation4ever]

The tourist part of Quebec are bilingual. My wife and I stayed in the old city where everything is bilingual. Across the street is Quebec's Parliament building. Every sign on and in the building is in French and only French.

[Krayt]

A different language nation follows Trump's lead of one official language only, god damn!

Trump will probably say something like, "Good for them! Quebec first for Quebeccers! French first for Frenchies!"

At that moment, you will insta-flip and be in support of it, instead of offended.

[Noscitur a sociis]

MacDonalds

Jesus Christ.

can not have the word "hamburgers" on its signs, and menus must be in French only.

Since the French word for hamburger is “hamburger”, this seems fairly unlikely. But I’ll withhold judgment until reading your dissertation.

[kramartini]

Royale avec fromage...

[Noscitur a sociis]

Looks to me like they do actually call it a “quart de livre”.

[grb]

Noscitur a sociis : "Since the French word for hamburger is “hamburger”, this seems fairly unlikely."

Shades of George W. Bush's comment to Tony Blair: "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur"

(To be fair, there's some evidence this story is apocryphal)

[Kazinski]

No Florine is not like Arsenic, because its not a heavy metal. Its actually a lot more like chlorine at least chemicaly, which isn't actually benign, since its a poisonous gas. But some people claim sodium cloride is benign, others claim its use should be regulated.

Floride can be much more reactive and dangerous than Chloride, for instance Hydrofluoric acid is many levels more dangerous than hydrocrhloric acid.

So maybe sodiomfloride is no more dangerous than sodiumchloride, which is plausible, since both inhibit bacteria growth, but something must make sodiumfloride more reactive other wise they would just put more tablesalt in our water and toothpaste.

My mind is open on the question, but maybe its been diseased by more than 60 years of floridization.

[Kazinski]

Whoops,that should have been posted above.

Make it so.

[Frank Drackman]

It’s “Fluorine/ide” and “Sodium” looks like it doesn’t help with spelling

[Kazinski]

Yeah, but: "Fluoride is an inorganic, monatomic anion of fluorine", having an extra electron does alter its chemical properties, but doesn't make it a different element.

[Armchair]

Changing the chemical properties is kinda a big deal if you're talking about how something chemically interacts.

[hobie]

Haven't we been shoving floride into our mouths day and evening for 70 years? In that time the only negative population effects I can see are a rise in conspiracism, racism and insurrectionism. Mutations in children though? I don't think so...Kennedy and his entire visage notwithstanding.

[Kazinski]

I am not sure that helps you Hobie.

Iodine increases IQ by 15 points Iodine deficient populations.

Fluoride is in the same chemical group as iodine with 7 electrons in the outer shell, I'm not sure its impossible to have the opposite effect.

So here we have group 17, the Halogens which includes chlorine and iodine, but is headed by Florine which is the most reactive non-metal element.

To recap:
Sodium Chloride is necessary for life but kills millions every year.
Sodium Iodide, can raise your IQ 15 points or more (too late for you Hobie)
And Sodium Floride which does nothing more than inhibit tooth decay, and absolutely nothing else, although that's never been studied.

Excuse me for wanting to know more, although I admit the above is all I know.

[Armchair]

The short answer, it's complicated.

The long answer is, the human body has evolved through millions of years to take advantage of certain elements and elemental anions and cations at certain concentration ranges. Outside of those ranges leads to detrimental effects. Far outside of those ranges can lead to deadly effects.

The various cations and anions cannot fully substitute for one another. They have distinct properties.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Medically. Sodium and Potassium come to mind, you need both.

[hobie]

Well, we should let the scientists in charge handle the minutia

[Kazinski]

No, we can let the scientists educate us about the minutia so we can make our own informed decisions.

[Brett Bellmore]

"In that time the only negative population effects I can see are a rise in conspiracism, racism and insurrectionism."

That's a pretty ironic complaint, in as much as the negative effect seen from excessive fluoride during childhood is a reduction in IQ. Strong teeth and weak minds...

[Dr. Ed 2]

My point was that (a) both naturally occur in drinking water, leaching out of the rocks the water flows through, in a similar manner. And that (b) the action level for both is relatively low.

But then why is the ocean salty? That salt had to come from somewhere...

[not guilty]

President Trump has reportedly reshared a post falsely saying former President Joe Biden was "executed in 2020," among other incorrect allegations.

The false claims, made by another user on Truth Social and reposted by Trump on May 31, also included that "clones doubles & robotic engineered soulless mindless entities" have since substituted for the ex-commander-in-chief. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/01/trump-false-biden-claim-social-media/83977684007/ The post reads, “There is no #JoeBiden - executed in 2020. #Biden clones doubles & robotic engineered soulless mindless entities are what you see. Democrats dont know the difference.”

Is the "robot" perchance named Billy Shears? (Google it.)

It is nothing short of astonishing that the MAGA cult claims this buffoon as its hero.

[Kazinski]

'Elected', 'Executed' whatever.

I have a lot worse spellcheck fuchups in every thread so I am not going to throw stones.

[Bwaaah]

I think he's just trying to drive home the point that the 2020 execution was stolen.

[DrCoke]

It was stolen?

Delicious pun for the season!

[santamonica811]

One would think that if you were gonna pull off the biggest deception in human political history; you'd at least sub in someone who is not more more senile than the original. You'd think that this logical point would, at the very least, give pause to the usual MAGA conspiracy idiots. Nope. Somehow, they make it all fit into their world view.

Trump simply can't help himself. Of course he would be better off keeping quiet. But his own senility, and his own mental illnesses/fragility make him incapable of using common sense. Republicans currently in power all need a time out, just like Democrats in power 2 years ago all needed a time out back then. We are living in crazy times, there are lots of people pointing out that the various emperors (past and present) are not/were not wearing any clothes . . . and no one seems to care. It's actually sort of remarkable, in a horrifying, inescapable, unavoidable-car-crash-sort-of-way.

[Kazinski]

There are few out there more senile than the original.

My mother is 96, and I'd stack her up against Biden anyday. Not that she's not slipping, her Worldle percentage is only around 50%, before her stroke last August it was 90%.

But she hasn't gotten lost in her closet yet.

She did tell me a month or so ago she approved of Trump's proposal to be able to deport American citizens.

I was pretty surprised, knowing her politics, but then she delivered her punchline: then we can deport Trump.

[Mr. Bumble]

Explains where you got it from.
Blessings on your Mom.

[tylertusta]

I was pretty surprised, knowing her politics, but then she delivered her punchline: then we can deport Trump.

She's a treasure. Glad she's still around.

[Voize of Reazon]

There is tremendous variability in mental acuity with age.
Bruce Willis is in serious decline at 70,
but William Shatner is 94 and he's very active. A few weeks ago he was happily trolling MAGA on X.

[Mr. Bumble]

Because as always and in everything; one size doe NOT fit all.

[bye]

Not sure what you mean to say.
That she holds view she probably held 30 years ago says nothing about Biden, he was stupid even at the Bork and Clarence Thomas hearings.
The comparison with Trump though fails, because all it says is that like Biden she would compromise legality to get rid of an enemy.

Biden was never like your premise demands, a sharp, unlazy , well-spoken guy. NEVER

[bye]

Guess you don't ever watch the famous Biden-and-his-brilliant-cast-of-characters

This is just 22 seconds, one of the stupidest things I've heard in my life !!!!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/liL2VXYNyus

[Sarcastr0]

Neato whattaboutism.

Here's what you are deflecting from:

"“There is no #JoeBiden – executed in 2020. #Biden clones doubles & robotic engineered soulless mindless entities are what you see. #Democrats don’t know the difference.”

[bye]

I love St Monica but I most reprove this ridiculous comment

Biden and deception. Maybe proof he is one of the stupidest public figures in the past couple hundred years. The following would suggest he was stupid not avoid this happening and more stupid not to notice it when it did happen

===============
Biden apparently did not know that he had signed an executive order pausing the export of liquified natural gas (LNG) in an early 2024 meeting.

“Because if Joe Biden had no idea he banned natural gas … Look, I’m no Biden fan at all in any sense of the word — I loathe the man. But that guy has been in politics for 60 years because he is a savvy politician. A competent Biden would have never banned the sale of natural gas trying to win the state of Pennsylvania,” the Power the Future founder told Boyle. “Even Biden would have been like, ‘We’re not going to ban natural gas. I’m trying to win the damn state of Pennsylvania for the election.’ That’s how bad of a decision it was, and that’s how out of the loop Biden was.”

[Harvey Mosley]

I thought we couldn't diagnose someone a) unless we are a psychiatrist and b) had a chance to examine the person in person. Did that change because the party affiliation changed with the new office holder?

[bye]

Diagnosis is WHY you are as you are ...but that you are as you are is available to all with eyes. Biden is stupid and lazy , even close friends have said as much and he can't speak

Okay, this is Australia, this is how Biden looks to those furthest from us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWykK5WjxjU

[Bwaaah]

That professional, in-person evaluation is a method for diagnosing someone. At the same time, requiring that method while preventing its implementation is a technique for avoiding accountability, as here.

In theory, you're trying to assure accurate mental health evaluation. In reality, you're stonewalling American voters.

[Michael P]

Is the first part satire? It seems to be a set-up for the finale. The closing sentence understates the core problem: Democrats would deny all the evidence of such an event and insist it was a conspiracy theory.

[Sarcastr0]

Big satirist, that Trump.

[hobie]

Trump's just mad that he's only finding out now that he could have easily substituted Vance with an advanced, inflatable sex doll.

[grb]

Nah. If Trump was to get an inflatable sex doll, it almost certainly would be of Putin.

(and even then, the doll would be his Daddy)

[tylertusta]

Anyone up for some covfefe?

[bye]

Tyler likes high wisdom delivered with correct pronunciation , as in Kamala's :

"It's time for us to do what we have been doing, and that time is every day" - US Vice President Kamala Harris.

So goddam incompetent it makes one wonder why you prefer her.
But I don't waste my life on imponderables

[tylertusta]

Sorry, friend, but I'm a conservative. I would have low-crawled over broken glass to avoid voting for her.

[Moderation4ever]

I think it is nice to see that President Trump doesn't let himself get bogged doing doing his actual Presidential work. He kind of reminds me of the guy at work that spends most of his day on the internet rather than actually doing work.

[Mr. Bumble]

You've described SarcastrO, or Il Douche as I prefer to call him.

[bye]

Bill Gates ( and this is not a compliment) would mock you as being stupidly unaware of what you actually said : Bill Gates said, “I choose a lazy person to do a hard job, because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.”

But your view of the Presidency and what it requires has some of the caveman about it

“ Most presidents place faith in action; the modern presidency is perpetual motion. Coolidge made virtue of inaction. “Give administration a chance to catch up with legislation,” he told his colleagues in the Massachusetts Senate. “It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones,” he wrote to his father as early as 1910. Congress always says, “Do.” Coolidge replied, “Do not do,” or, at least, “Do less.” Whereas other presidents made themselves omnipresent, Coolidge held back. At the time, and subsequently, many have deemed the Coolidge method laziness. Upon examination, however, the inaction reflects strength. In politics as in business, it is often harder, after all, not to do, to delegate, than to do. Coolidge is our great refrainer.”
― Amity Shlaes, Coolidge

You want the Jimmy Carter approach but re-read what she said.

In politics as in business, it is often harder, after all, not to do, to delegate, than to do.

[Moderation4ever]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I doubt Bill Gates would ever hire Trump for anything. I doubt that Elon Musk would either.

As for your premise that doing nothing is good, that would be true if President Trump were doing nothing. Rather he is doing stupid things without taking the time to think about what he is doing.

[bye]

But that Gates would not hire him changes nothing about what Gate said, It only shows he dislikes Trump. Take a Logic or Rhetoric course.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Wow! It sounds like Trump actually believes that Biden was executed in 2020 and replaced with robots and clones.

That would be pretty bad!

Either that, or it's a troll. I wonder which it is.

[Malika the Maiz]

A troll by a POTUS would also be pretty bad (puerile and petty), right?

[TwelveInchPianist]

You mean like this?

[Frank Drackman]

He just got Parkinsonian Joes Execution date wrong, it was July 20, 2024

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I re-watched Desperately Seeking Susan recently.

The film is particularly about a certain vibe. It is also charming to see a variety of young actors early in their careers.

Madonna insisted on being involved in a variety of subpar films, including apparently (I have not seen them) those she directed. OTOH, she had good performances that fit with her personality and strengths. Performers should know their limitations.

The DVD had a commentary track with various women involved with the film behind the scenes, including the director. It also added the original ending, which was silly.

[Frank Drackman]

Roseanne was a slice of Pie, wasn’t she?

[SRG2]

Afaic it's all about the buoyancy of Rosanna Arquette's breasts

[Kazinski]

Ukraine had a huge win this weekend wiping out by most accounts a third of Russia's strategic bomber fleet.

Absolutely brilliant operation, and I couldn't be happier for Ukraine, and I hope this has the desired effect in bringing Russia to the table for meaningful peace talks.

However I can't help but worry about what effect will have on global strategic stability. Imagine how secure we we suddenly feel if say a second rate adversary like North Korea sudden wiped out a third of our B52s and B2's.

It would definitely give us a higher state of alert and make us more likely to react in a crises, and I worry about that. Of course Russia has more to worry about, like similar attacks on refineries and gas and oil export facilities and tankers.

Congratulations to Ukraine, and I hope this results in a faster road to peace rather than escalation.

[Commenter_XY]

As military operations go, it was audacious. Ivan just lost some very important planes, and global capabilities.

[Mr. Bumble]

Poking a bear with a stick can be dangerous. How will Putin react?
If this were North Korea the anti-aircraft guns would be blazing. Not at the drones but at those who failed to prevent it.
Can Putin afford to sack (or worse) those who failed to prevent the attack?

[apedad]

I wonder how much power Putin has left.

The UKR war is simply going to drag on and loyalty doesn't last forever.

[Martinned]

Poking a bear with a stick can be dangerous. How will Putin react?

For now he's reacting by doing a lot more checks of trucks, at every border crossing all the way to Vladivostok. That won't make the war effort any easier.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Russia is SO corrupt tat this won't work.

[Martinned]

Yes, isn't corruption terrible?

[Bob from Ohio]

"Poking a bear with a stick can be dangerous."

Its a war. Russia is already using cruise missiles and drones for terror purposes, killing civilians for zero military gain.

[tylertusta]

I highly doubt that Russia will start executing leaders for their failures in preventing the attack. If they did start offing leaders for incompetence, they'd quickly run out of officers.

No, they'll find some people to take the blame and then ship them off to Siberia for a decade or so until they're sufficiently "rehabilitated."

[bernard11]

Poking a bear with a stick can be dangerous.

Yeah. Zelensky better be careful. If he pisses Putin off too much Putin might invade.

You remind me of the old joke about the two revolutionaries facing a czarist firing squad. The captain asks if they have any last words and one shouts, "Long live the revolution!," and the other leans over and says to him, "Keep quiet, you fool. Don't make them angry."

[Dr. Ed 2]

Is that what UKE is hoping he will do?

[Don Nico]

Some very smart comments to the NYT report included the suggestion that UKR attack Russia ICBM sites.

I guess those folks never watch Dr. Strangelove

[Dr. Ed 2]

Don -- they actually proposed that in Khrushchev's era and he killed it.

[bye]

I would guess that Putin will be assassinated. It is the perfect excuse.

[santamonica811]

And replaced with a clone? Trump wants to know.

[Riva]

Isn’t WWIII going to be such fun? Tactical nuclear weapons are especially hilarious. I think Ukraine and it European allies should be more even more audacious.

[Don Nico]

That is why only 1 week ago
EU nation gave their permission for Ukraine to launch strike deep inside Russia.

[Martinned]

To make things worse, did you hear that America's stealth bombers aren't actually invisible?

[Armchair]

They are to radar...and that's what matters.

[Martinned]

Has someone explained that to the President yet?

[Longtobefree]

Radar, infrared, sound; all three were reduced as far as possible.
But time marches on, and even though math is hard, (and racist) the truth is out there.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Remember wave theory?
I've always wondered if constructive and destructive interference could be used to have the radar return come from somewhere other than where it did.

[Kazinski]

Well there is little question about whether their original mission is still viable, no they are not going to drop bombs directly over their targets.

But can they launch a score of cruise or hypersonic missiles thousands of miles from their targets?

Same with the Russian bombers.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Not with some of the Russian bombers.

[Armchair]

It's actually a pretty worrying type of operation, if you think about the implications.

These drones weren't launched from Ukraine. They were loaded into trucks with retractable roofs, driven across Russia, then the roofs were retracted and the drones were allowed to take off. Irkutsk is more than 3000 miles from Ukraine.

We've got to ask a question, if Ukraine could pull this off in Russia, why couldn't some other foreign power (or terrorist organization) pull this off in the United States? This isn't exactly high-tech. Many of these drones are off-the-shelf.

[tylertusta]

The US military is investing in anti-drone defenses to protect US military installations.

But that (along with intelligence forewarning of an upcoming attack), has to be married with strict border controls, including the removal of as much of the mass migrations we suffered under Biden and Obama.n.

[Armchair]

So those are military installations. But what about civilian installations? These drones could potentially just as easily take down a power grid or a civilian airport.

[tylertusta]

Right now, the solution to those problems is redundancy, repairs, and retaliation.

Like it or not, US civilian infrastructure is not critical military assets that could change the outcome of a war in the short-term.

In the long-term, the infrastructure would rebuild and interior forces would be inspecting everything moving around.

[Armchair]

I'm less worried about critical military assets, and more worried about terrorists using a bunch of drones to take down airliners or aircraft on the ground at major airport.

[tylertusta]

A major metro airport being subject to that kind of drone attack would be horrifying, and I don't think there's any feasible solution at present.

[David Nieporent]

But that (along with intelligence forewarning of an upcoming attack), has to be married with strict border controls, including the removal of as much of the mass migrations we suffered under Biden and Obama.

When all you have is a hammer — hating immigrants — everything looks like a nail. No matter how illogical.

[tylertusta]

It's a happy marriage as far as I'm concerned: closing the border and reversing the migrant wave is both a social good and also a military necessity.

What's illogical is that the open borders types insist that we continue to allow unfettered access into the country by any and all comers- which would naturally include saboteurs.

[David Nieporent]

Does Russia have "open borders"? Did that stop this attack on Russia? Did "migrants" have anything to do with the attacks? How does sneaking across the border to wash dishes threaten attacks?

[tylertusta]

Does Russia have "open borders"?

Based on English-speaking reporting, they're very lax in letting people in from most former USSR member states.

Their migrant population is apparently enough of a problem for them that they recently changed the law to allow them to deport foreigners at a faster pace.

Left unsaid is most reporting is the corruption problem that Russia faces. Some money goes a long way in getting officials to look the other way, as Ukraine has shown before with the kamikaze attack on the Crimean bridge in 2022. The Russians claimed that the explosives were imported through Georgia FWIW.

Did that stop this attack on Russia?

Huh?

Did "migrants" have anything to do with the attacks?

It certainly wasn't the Russians who blew up their own planes.

How does sneaking across the border to wash dishes threaten attacks?

It's better to be a small group hiding among millions of people claiming refugee status than it is to be a small group among a thousand.

As the Biden regime's mismanagement showed, the system was so overwhelmed that asylum claims were only evaluated ten years or more after they entered the country!

Ten years is a loooong time to plan and then conduct sabotage operations.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-courts-wait-54bb5f7c18c4c37c6ca7f28231ff0edf

[bye]

Biden will know -- at least on his deathbed -- that the only way Tren de Aragua and MS-13 got in is because the border was the SAFEST way to get in . The irony of it. Such a stupid man Biden has always been

[David Nieporent]

Did you change handles because your prior ones were banned or just because you weren't getting enough attention and hoped to evade block lists with a new username?

[Life of Brian]

Block lists are based on the ID # of the user, not their current handle.

I would have imagined that someone with such an unbelievable pedigree would understand basic stuff like that.

[Magister]

I'm pretty sure that "changing handles" in this context would mean creating a new user with a new ID #. A banned user would have to do that, because bans are presumably not based on the handle. (Just changing the name might fool commenters who have not blocked the user into replying, which would maybe prompt someone to unblock them to find out what the reply was to.)

[Life of Brian]

That's a valiant attempt at a charitable interpretation, but it doesn't really fit the facts on the ground here since Mr. Esq. directed his snippy inquiry to an account with a rather old ID #.

[Sarcastr0]

What are you so mad about? I don’t get it.

[Magister]

Furious that the rest of the world isn't looking up ID#'s, I suppose. It could be an old ID, recycled with a different name in order not to get blocked as quickly by those who remember the previous name; the most repellent posters probably need a number of accounts even if they don't get banned.

[Life of Brian]

Furious that the rest of the world isn't looking up ID#'s, I suppose.

Nah, just people who make haughty accusations about supposed new accounts without even bothering to do a shred of due diligence first. Particularly someone who spent most of yesterday lashing out at others about their supposed ignorance.

Guessing he got his ass handed to him on a platter IRL yesterday and needed to do something to try to patch up his fragile sense of superiority. Real-world stuff like kicking puppies is a bit too risky these days.

It could be an old ID, recycled with a different name in order not to get blocked as quickly by those who remember the previous name

Again, if someone had blocked the old ID under the prior name, that ID would remain blocked regardless of any subsequent name changes. I'm afraid you're not going to be able to salvage this one for David.

[Magister]

If banned, the user would be a different one, whether new or old, and that was the first case listed (having never been banned, I don't know if the same handle could be used with a different email address; I would guess not, or we wouldn't see handles ending in 2).

I still doubt that anyone else is looking at ID #'s, and it would be astonishing if David Nieporent has been tracking ID #'s against handles in order to identify a mere change in handle.

Also, note that a lot of muting is informal; I skip over a number of names that have proven not worth reading or replying to, without actually blocking them, and a change in handle alone would sucker me into reading them again. If there is a source for that history, it would be much more useful to say how to find it rather than trying for another tiresome quibble laden gotcha; criticizing someone for not even looking at ID #s is pretty different from criticizing people who haven't read a linked legal document at a legal blog.

[Life of Brian]

Also, note that a lot of muting is informal

Right, sorta like how I often find myself soft-muting poster 1079762 because of his tendency to just spray out screenfuls of text with marginal attachment to the issue at hand.

[Magister]

I feel very ignored with these multiple replies.

people who make haughty accusations

Maybe look in the mirror? Life of Brian most frequently makes some grand pronouncement and then quibbles furiously when it's rebutted; it's sadly predictable and generally worthless, as it's most often about some long ago quibble that didn't go well for him.

[Life of Brian]

See above, hopefully with more careful reading and/or better comprehension. It's never too late!

[Magister]

Tell yourself that while looking in the mirror.

For those who are curious, my first encounter with the quibbler was when Arthur Kirkland observed that commenters wished death in various graphic forms on people like Kirkland, and Life of Brian insisted it didn't happen; I promptly provided examples and got some ferocious quibbling.

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, the does love the pedantry.

Lately though he's been more styling as an out-and-out MAGA moral void.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning
I'd hammer in the evening all over this land
I'd hammer out danger, I'd hammer out a warning
I'd hammer out love between my brothers and my sisters
All over this land, ooh

It's hammer of injustice, yeah.

[Moderation4ever]

What even more worrying to me is that the Congress wants to give billions for a new fighter jet program. Congress is planning for a war that was outdated long ago and ignoring how war is fought today.

[tylertusta]

There are quite a few conclusions you can reach from Ukraine's drone attack, but "fighter jets are obsolete" is not one of them.

The biggest takeaway you should get is that exposed aircraft parked on the ramp can be destroyed from the air, which was already known after the Japanese attacks on the air bases on Oahu on December 7th, 1941.

What should be done is that we should build more hardened aircraft shelters. Concrete is cheap, plentiful, and adequate to protect against commercial-size drones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_aircraft_shelter

[TwelveInchPianist]

In any event, we know very little about what happened, and the details we do know are likely to be loaded with disinformation. I'm sure there's much more to the story that we don't know about.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Forget truck, try ship.

You could launch these from a lobster boat, and a 20-30 mile circle from where a lobster (or rich guy toy) boat could be without being noticed. Heck, a 2-3 mile circle...

[hobie]

"The White House said it was not informed ahead of time about the strikes"

[Krayt]

[Frank Drackman]

Not like Roosh-a doesn't have hundreds of Nuke-ular armed ICBM's that unlike the Bombers, aren't sitting out in the open.

[hobie]

Don't be afraid Frankie, America's real servicewomen will protect you from them mean Russians

[Frank Drackman]

With what? Their Neo-Vaginas?

[Krayt]

Well, yes, if you wanna go down that silly tack. How well do "neovaginas" do in places like Russia? They will gladly defend the US against hellholes like that.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Frank, did you see how their blueprints recently wound up on the internet?

[Commenter_XY]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/several-wounded-in-firebomb-attack-on-rally-for-israeli-hostages-in-colorado/

Illegal aliens remain a problem for this country. They need to leave.

So does antisemitism. Need more visa revocations and deportations.

[Kazinski]

Well his tourist visa had already expired, more than a year ago.

I kind of disagree with you, we need better visa vetting, and then we don't have to worry about revoking them.

I was pretty vocal about being upset about my 16 year old sister in law not being approved for a tourist visa to visit her mother and sister because she didn't earn enough money, or own any real estate. How many 16 year olds would qualify for that?

But my wife's other 2 sisters are coming on tourist visas in June, I'd be pretty upset if their visas were revoked, it might cost me a trip to Vegas.

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, yes, with better visa vetting we'd need to revoke fewer visas, but I doubt the vetting could ever get low enough to drive the necessary revocation rate to zero.

[Moderation4ever]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Better visa vetting would be far better step than some of the silly things being done now.

[Brett Bellmore]

I think we could do both better visa vetting, AND revocation of visas for cause.

I don't think much of what's going on right now is actually silly. Quite a bit of it is legally obnoxious, but I sort of understand the objective: Since Congress does not seem inclined to adequately fund immigration enforcement, (Too many of the members were lying when they ran on accomplishing it.) he's trying to create an atmosphere of fear among illegal immigrants and undesirable legal ones, to encourage self-deportation.

It's rather like the drug war in that regard; Substituting over the top penalties for certainty of being caught.

My understanding this as a tactic doesn't represent approval. Trump should be pushing a LOT harder on Congress to give him the resources he needs to accomplish the needed deportations in a legally legitimate manner.

[bernard11]

he's trying to create an atmosphere of fear among illegal immigrants and undesirable legal ones, to encourage self-deportation.

Who is more likely to become fearful - the terrorist on a mission or the innocent farm laborer/construction worker?

[Brett Bellmore]

Granted, the guilty of illegally immigrating (among other things) farm laborer/construction worker, but let's drain the sea the terrorist on a mission swims in.

[Sarcastr0]

Brett, I work with international students. They're all living in fear.

It's an awful thing to put on humans, and we're causing it with our harsh and arbitrary enforcement.
Muslim? Live in fear
Latino? Live infear.
Liked something making fun of Trump on twitter 5 years ago? Live in fear.

It's shameful what we're putting these people through.

It's already wrecked our place in the global competition for talent. That'll take at least a decade to get back.

But you're not in this for utility. You've shown again and again you're in this to get off on binding an outgroup you have some real animus towards.

[Bob from Ohio]

Planes leave the US every day. They can go back home. Then they won't live in fear.

[Kazinski]

"Latino? Live infear."

I hope you aren't using a racist stereotype of conflating Latinos with illegal aliens.

Because I don't see it and the town I live in is over 40% Hispanic.

This is what I see:

According to an InsiderAdvantage poll of 1,000 likely voters, 59.6 percent of Hispanics approve of Trump's job performance while 40.4 percent disapprove.

The poll was conducted between May 17 and 19 and had a margin of error of 3.09 percent.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-approval-rating-hispanic-voters-poll-2077324

[Sarcastr0]

No, Kaz, international students aren't going to be likely voters.

The administration is going after people with names like these people, who are afraid of having their visa yanked and being deported.

This performative 'atmosphere of fear' bullshit turns out to have a ton of collateral damage.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Screw "talent."
let's start educating our own.

[Commenter_XY]

It's already wrecked our place in the global competition for talent. That'll take at least a decade to get back.

Complete and utter tripe. There are many millions of people globally who will gladly replace those students. And they're perfectly capable, as well. The action is happening here b/c that is where the money is going.

[bernard11]

here are many millions of people globally who will gladly replace those students. And they're perfectly capable, as well.

Nobody's coming here if they can't get a research grant, and it's not like the schools have open admissions. Yeah, we're losing talent - a lot of it. It's almost as if Trump wants to destroy one of our most valuable institutions - our research capabilities.

Don't defend it with blind assertions which spring from your blind cultishness rather than facts.

The man is on a mission to destroy things he doesn't like - democracy, due process, higher education, etc.

And you cheer.

[Kazinski]

There is all the money the administration asked for in the reconciliation bill, for more detention, and ICE officers.

They are planning to ramp up to hit a million deportations a year.

[Stephen Lathrop]

So due process for 2,800 per day? No due process at all? What is that supposed to look like? And why plan to fall so short of Trump's election promises?

[tylertusta]

You should be happy that they're going to get more process than you wanted to give Trump.

[bernard11]

I think impeachment proceedings provide adequate due process, especially when the jury is heavily biased in the defendant's favor.

[Poxigah146]

It's well known in immigrant circles that those who overstay visas will never suffer any enforcement, unless they happen to get caught doing something else.

That is the problem.

[Sarcastr0]

Part of my work is J-1 Visa Waivers. And you're fully incorrect.

Not that anyone thought you were in touch with "immigrant circles."

[Kazinski]

I'm sure it depends on whether your visa has a path to a green card or whether its a tourist visa and you have no hope of getting a green card. If your visa comes with a work permit and a path to citizenship there is a lot of incentive to comply.

If your choices are go home now or go home when you are caught then there maybe different incentives.

[Sarcastr0]

There was a factual statement made: "It's well known in immigrant circles that those who overstay visas will never suffer any enforcement."

I have met a number of counterexamples.

I disagree with you in your implications that people on tourist visas are incentivized to overstay. No one likes to be caught and deported.

We are treating immigrants - all immigrants - substantially worse under Trump, just in terms of the expectations and atmosphere we're setting.
Make all the excuses you want, it just shows who counts in your book.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Americans count.

[bernard11]

Why would you be upset about that?

[AmosArch]

Is Somin clearing out his schedule to take Mr. Soliman on as a client?

[tylertusta]

Prof. Somin would have to compete against the army of left-wing lawyers climbing over each other trying to represent Mr. Soliman.

[Malika the Maiz]

Pretty sure Somin has said he’s for vetting for national security reasons.

[Noscitur a sociis]

When?

[Sarcastr0]

Says a lot when you need to make shit up to hate someone as much as you wanna.

[hobie]

At least the past week or so has given you insurrectionists a couple of actual examples of antisemitic hatred and violence. Compare and contrast with opeds against war and see if you can get your bigotries more correct

[tylertusta]

I fear that we've reached a threshold where the nutjobs are going to start doing copycat attacks.

[Brett Bellmore]

Actual examples of antisemitic hatred and violence have not been in short supply for some time now, hobie.

[Sarcastr0]

Whoosh.

[Brett Bellmore]

You want to explain what you think went over my head, maybe?

Hobie's remark that, "At least the past week or so has given you insurrectionists a couple of actual examples of antisemitic hatred and violence." would seem to imply that such attacks and hatred had been in short supply prior to the last week.

I've seen a high frequency of anti-semitic hatred and violence for several years now, especially from 10.7.23 onward.

[hobie]

Well, you folks have once again overplayed your hand and gone hyperbolic. Legitimate protest or calls for peace are all now terroristic antisemitism. So you hayseeds need to be constantly reminded by the adults that there is a vast difference between the two...even if you no longer have the capacity to understand the difference

[Kazinski]

I don't think its hyperbolic to believe them when they say they want to globalize the intifada.

Even if you can say with a straight face it doesn't mean targeting Jews, it certainly seems to encompass targeting supporters of Israel.

[hobie]

Referring to my comment below about Trump denigrating American Jews. I just came back from a drive and listened to one of the many, faceless AM right wingers. He was also passively-aggressively putting down the Jews saying, 'For the majority of American Jews, the New York Times is their Torrah. If they cannot embrace conservatism, they will end up being hunted down."

Denying the American Jewry of their Jewishness is right out of the Third Reich playbook. You boys have been using the childish, 'I'm not racist, YOU'RE racist.' for decades. It's always amusing to me to see how it varies from year to year. This year it's antisemitism. But you hayseeds seem to be unable to help yourselves in suppressing your own, very deep antisemitism

[Sarcastr0]

hobie pointed to actual terrible and tragic acts as what antisemitic hatred and violence looks like.

You and Brett just went back to calling speech terrorism.

It's kind of amazing, actually.

[hobie]

Agreed. From Trump telling American Jews that they weren't really Jewish unless they voted for him, to the killing of those two young Israelis; the Jewish people have been historically abused by any and all...as much for hatred as for political or personal gain.

[bye]

You aren't in line with much Jewish thought eg Commentary Magazine, that say that most Jews vote against their own interests.

Similarly that was why several Black leaders called Trump our first Black President. Remember?

[bernard11]

most Jews vote against their own interests.

Utter horseshit.

Not to mention that no one appointed Commonwealth Magazine to determine what my interests, or those of any other Jew, are.

[Malika the Maiz]

I agree antisemitism has to go. Goodbye Leo Terrell, Trump administrative official in charge of…combatting antisemitism!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/17/leo-terrell-trump-neo-nazi-tweet

[Don Nico]

C_XY,
What say you about our MIT 2025 class president?
She is now whining that she dd not get "due process."

[Commenter_XY]

Kornbluth needs to retire and gracefully leave the stage.

The MIT class president knew the rules and chose to break them; accept the consequences, which are quite lenient considering the shithole territory she aligns with and how they would deal with something like that.

[Frank Drackman]

His name is Moe-hammed, and he’s from Egypt, sound familiar?

[Krayt]

This is the right wing version of gun control. Shooting occurs, left wing says, "See? Gun control now!"

[NvEric]

Plaintiffs of the 'Tariff case' don't have standing, so how could a judge issue anything ?

[Mr. Bumble]

Which "tariff" case? I think there are two currently.

[Kazinski]

Its not hard to find a plaintiff, either an importer that directly pays the tariff, or a consumer that could reasonably expected to pay part of the tariff would suffice.

If standing is the only thing on your side then its likely the losing side, like Biden trying to defend student loan forgiveness.

[hobie]

The plaintiff in the tariff case that was just put on hold is a <i.Jewish wine importer. See where I can go with this one?

[bye]

No connection though. Under no legal contention is tuition anything but a usurpation of Congress's role (so said Pelosi) and an impairment of contract (see video of Sen Warren with that famous father https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbX47IiT2Yw .

Tariffs have such a long use by Presidentst that I can only marvel that you don't know
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/tariffs-in-american-history/

[Drewski]

You know what? If you want Pelosi and Warren to be sources of positive law in this country, with broad powers over constitutional interpretation, then I'm game. It's a good compromise: Trump gets his tariff power but is disqualified from holding public office and probably spends the rest of his life in prison.

[bye]

Never said source of positive law. you said that.
I said what they said ant the is all

[Armchair]

" a consumer that could reasonably expected to pay part of the tariff would suffice."

Not sure that grants standing. The importer, sure. But the consumer is paying the importers who is paying the tariff? Seems to be too far away.

[bernard11]

Why is it too far away? I see no reason.

And if you think a consumer is too far away what about a manufacturer who may import millions of dollars worth of component parts?

And if the government imposes some sort of illegal per item tax on grocery stores, why are customers "too far away" to challenge it?

[Brett Bellmore]

Actually, Amazon has a program for direct ordering from foreign sellers, where, yeah, you will personally get hit with the tariff. So I don't think finding somebody with standing is any problem.

[Armchair]

It's a matter of direct harm versus indirect harm and standing.

If the manufacturer directly pays the import tariffs, they have standing.

If the manufacturer by contrast pays an importer, and the importer pays the tariffs, the manufacturer doesn't have standing. The importer does.

If the manufacturer directly pays the tariffs, then increases the costs of the final good slightly, the consumer of the good doesn't have standing to sue for the original tariffs

The second-degree attenuation of harms (when the first party can sue) is problematic. If Joe pays Steve rent, then Steve uses that rent to pay Electric Corp, that's normal. If Joe doesn't pay Steve, Steve can sue Joe. If Steve doesn't pay Electric Corp, EC can sue Steve. But having Electric Corp sue Joe when Joe may not have even ever dealt with Electric Corp leads to all sorts of confusion.

[Poxigah146]

How much did we hear from progressives during the student loan forgiveness debacle that "Not every constitutional wrong can be remedied in the courts?"

[Sarcastr0]

Standing was a legit issue under current law.

And I, at least, thought that was a problem:
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/03/08/federal-district-court-rules-red-states-lack-standing-to-challenge-legality-of-immigration-parole-program-for-migrants-from-four-latin-american-countries/?comments=true#comment-10479914

I don't see the same issue in this case, however. Being required to pay a tax passed via abuse of process has injury, causality, and redressability.

[ducksalad]

They were wrong when they did it, and you are wrong when you do it.

[Riva]

And, thanks to the gross irresponsibility of the federal courts, China is taking full advantage and reneging on its earlier agreement. Other countries could follow suit, with resulting negative consequences on the market and potentially the economy. Why didn’t we think of this earlier? The democrats old lawfare was just too limited in scope. Why just target your political opponent when you can wreck the whole country? The judicial coup is almost as much fun as playing games with nuclear powers.

[Malika the Maiz]

Negative consequences on the economy like negative GDP growth? Riva-bot’s programmers need to update with current events!

[Mr. Bumble]

So,, GDP is the only and ultimate barometer of the economy?

[bernard11]

No. But it's a good one.

I mean, not too long ago you guys would talk about nothing but the inflation rate, so don't start with how complex it all is.

[Mr. Bumble]

But it is complex.

[David Nieporent]

reneging on its earlier agreement.

I guess it's true: bots do hallucinate!

[Kazinski]

Actually Bessent talks about that issue in his CBS interview, he thinks it should be ironed out when Xi and Trump talk.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/scott-bessent-confident-u-s-china-trade-details-will-be-ironed-out-when-trump-xi-talk/

[Riva]

I guess it's true. Lying assholes lie. And probably do other things. Alone in the dark. Keep it off zoom crazy Dave. Or don't, I don't really give a shit frankly.

[Frank Drackman]

Poor Kill-more Garcia’s, no DemoKKKrat Politicians have visited him for weeks, he can’t even get Sloppy Seconds from the (Very Wrong) Reverend Sharpton

[Michael P]

The Biden Administration was fully aware of the toxic, carcinogenic cloud that the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio caused. And knowingly minimized the response to it.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2025/06/01/new-emails-show-biden-officials-downplayed-cancer-concerns-from-toxic-train-derailment-in-ohio-n2657944

[bye]

I wouldn't even say 'knowingly' maybe history's most incapable puppet was 'lost in the closet'

[hobie]

Looks like Ohio's Republican-run public utilities and railroad commissions need to do a better job of maintaining the tracks in the state and to reporting to the citizens the nature of the chemicals spilled at the crash site...or is that someone else's duties?

[tylertusta]

And Biden missed an opportunity to go there when it counted, show that he cared, and rub the Ohio GOP's faces in the problem. He had the bully pulpit and squandered the chance.

Bush 43 faced similar criticism after Hurricane Katrina as you may recall.

[Malika the Maiz]

I agree with this one. Biden should have made an appearance.

[hobie]

The more apt administration official to be sent would be Pete. And he indeed showed up

[tylertusta]

Would Democrats have let Bush get away with sending DHS Secretary Chertoff?

(They did not).

[hobie]

If we're talking Katrina, then didn't Bush at least do a drive-by helicopter viewing before heading to the ranch?

[tylertusta]

Bush was already on vacation. After the hurricane, he cut short his vacation and flew back to DC to manage the crisis from there. While on the way back, Air Force One flew over the disaster area and that was when he saw the extent. A photographer took a picture of him looking at the devastation and Democrats painted him as aloof and uncaring.

An unfair criticism, to be sure, but politics sometimes is about playing dirty.

Biden's handlers knew what was at stake given what happened to Bush. The lesson they should have learned is that optics is just as important as substance. The President can do very on the scene of a disaster little besides holding a shovel for a photo-op, but even that matters.

[bernard11]

he cut short his vacation and flew back to DC to manage the crisis from there.

Oh sure. I can just see him on the phone in the Oval Office asking about conditions in the French Quarter, or the Garden District and making sure adequate supplies are reaching people. (Well, maybe the Garden District.)

[tylertusta]

Due to the criticism his administration was facing, Bush flew back out to the region a couple of days after arriving in DC so he could be in photo-ops and press conferences. Unfortunately for Republicans, the damage to his image was already done.

[Sarcastr0]

Good podcast:
https://slate.com/podcasts/whistlestop/2017/10/president-lyndon-johnson-responded-to-hurricane-betsy-and-began-a-new-tradition

"On Sept. 10, 1965, President Johnson established a new norm of being "disaster responder in chief.""

[bernard11]

But "photo-ops and press conferences" were not what he needed to be doing. Bad advice.

Sure, he wasn't going to get a shovel and start cleaning things up, but going to the neighborhoods and talking to the residents about their problems, maybe even having someone take notes, would have helped him, I think.

[tylertusta]

I consider those photo ops. Meeting with people- and being seen meeting with them- was what Bush did.

[bernard11]

Maybe he shouldn't treat those conversations as just photo ops, and try to learn a thing or two.

[bye]

Yet Trump went to Louisiana after terrible hurricane while Hillary partied with Cher and Barbara Streisand. But Hillary didn't give Oprah a million dollars, because Oprah actually supported Hillary (OUCH !!! that hurts, OUCH !!~!)

[Malika the Maiz]

Of course Mikie P didn’t post the source in the Town Hall “article” so you don’t see the shocking revelations are of this nature:

“The occurrence of a cancer-cluster in EP [East Palestine] is not zero,” FEMA recovery leader James McPherson wrote in a March 29, 2024, email to other public health officials — a little more than a year after the crash.”

https://nypost.com/2025/05/31/us-news/biden-admin-admitted-chances-of-cancer-affecting-ohio-residents-after-train-crash-was-not-zero/

[Sarcastr0]

This isn't a smoking gun by any stretch. It's just the usual melodrama some folks on here just eat up with sppon.
And there's no sign of a coverup...but yeah the response always looked weak to me and I hope any cover-up is revealed, and any intentionally underplayed response is brought to light.

Separately, the Trump admin is hampering broadly and fully dismantling some parts of the CDC and EPA, so if you infer a failed federal response here, I got very bad news for you about the future.

[Malika the Maiz]

“President Trump has nominated 30-year-old conservative lawyer Paul Ingrassia, to lead the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, a government ethics office, despite Ingrassia's ties to multiple antisemitic extremists.”

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/30/nx-s1-5417902/trump-ingrassia-antisemitism-ethics

[hobie]

Michael P and Townhall will get right on this!

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm always a little suspicious of "ties", though the term is slightly less ambiguous than "has been linked to", (Which is kind of self-confirming; Just by using it you make it true...)

In this case the "antisemitic conspiracy theories lifted right out of the neo-Nazi playbook" seem rather lightweight to me. Liberals could hardly safely open their mouths if you flipped that script and noticed every time they said something communists had said.

And even following the links, I missed the "ties", which certainly has to mean more than "said something a neo-nazi somewhere once agreed with".

[Sarcastr0]

Ingrassia has not only assisted in Tate's legal defense, but also praised him as an "extraordinary man" and "the embodiment of the ancient ideal of excellence," who has been unjustly targeted by "the global elites."
---
In June 2024, Ingrassia appeared in the crowd at an impromptu rally for Holocaust denier and white nationalist Nick Fuentes...At the Fuentes rally, supporters chanted "down with Israel," and Fuentes told the crowd, "calling Donald Trump a racist only makes me like him more."
---
Shortly after Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing approximately 1,200 people, Ingrassia posted, "I think we could all admit at this stage that Israel/Palestine, much like Ukraine before it, and BLM before that, and covid/vaccine before that, was yet another psyop."
----
Leo Terrell, the leader of the Trump administration's antisemitism task force, praised Ingrassia's nomination to lead the Office of Special Counsel....Terrell himself has faced criticism for sharing a social media post by a prominent white supremacist that said, "Trump has the ability to revoke someone's Jew card."

[Armchair]

Using that logic, you're a raging antisemite based on some of the stuff you've said here.

[Sarcastr0]

If you have nothing substantive to add, you can just not post.

[Armchair]

It just points out the logical inconsistencies here. You've said many worse things about the Israelis and Jews here. But have claimed you're "not an antisemite".

So, either you're a raging antisemite, or your logic here is inconsistent to the point of being disregarded.

[Michael P]

Don't complain about people using the exact same tactics that you used just above.

[Sarcastr0]

My post was quotes from the linked article.

[Michael P]

If you have nothing substantive to add, you can just not post.

[Sarcastr0]

It was a substantive rejoinder to Brett Bellmore's skepticism and claims he'd read the article.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

That's one way to reduce the number of comments by a significant percentage.

[Kazinski]

I admired Muhammad Ali too, even if I thought he was a racist draft dodger.

[Malika the Maiz]

And Kaz admires Farrakhan and David Duke as such sharp dressers!

[Kazinski]

Sharp dressing isn't something I give much thought to.

[bernard11]

I knew a lot of racist draft dodgers. Most were whiter than Ali, and had shakier stories than his.

Leaving all that aside, though, you should find and watch "When We Were Kings," a documentary about the championship fight between Ali and George Foreman in Zaire - the "Rumble in the Jungle."

Great documentary.

[bernard11]

who has been unjustly targeted by "the global elites."

He left out "rootless cosmopolitans" and "international bankers." Guy needs a refresher.

[hobie]

If the man had only cosigned an oped denouncing war in Gaza or dined with Nick Fuentes, then we'd have something to discuss. If not, nothing to see here

[Riva]

Yeah, “ties to multiple antisemitic extremists.” That’s almost believable. Wait, my error. Forgot the almost. Not believable at all. Just a plain lie.

But the real stupidity about this lie, is that democrats are the ones with ties to antisemitic extremists. The projection is strong with you today young creepy troll.

[Malika the Maiz]

Riva-boy’s programmers need to do an update re anti-semitism!

Ingrassia has not only assisted in Tate's legal defense, but also praised him as an "extraordinary man" and "the embodiment of the ancient ideal of excellence," who has been unjustly targeted by "the global elites."
---
In June 2024, Ingrassia appeared in the crowd at an impromptu rally for Holocaust denier and white nationalist Nick Fuentes...At the Fuentes rally, supporters chanted "down with Israel," and Fuentes told the crowd, "calling Donald Trump a racist only makes me like him more."
---
Shortly after Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing approximately 1,200 people, Ingrassia posted, "I think we could all admit at this stage that Israel/Palestine, much like Ukraine before it, and BLM before that, and covid/vaccine before that, was yet another psyop."

[Riva]

Here's the thing, being a little creepy troll liar, I don't actually trust you to accurately relate anything. Sure, you can parrot trolling insults like any other dumb animal but besides that, not really trustworthy. Or maybe not even parrot too well. Now it's "riva-boy"? You better clear that up with the other creepy trolls before using that again, unless you're going for a racist twist. Who knows? Trolls do lack all class.

And, just as an aside, if he truly made that remark, it doesn't strike me as necessarily supportive of the Hamas animals. Without more context it could have been meant to be critical of the democrat Hamas supporting propaganda that promoted the Hamas animals as heroes. And maybe you missed it but supporters of the Hamas animals are key Democrat allies.

[Malika the Maiz]

“Without more context it could have been meant to be critical of the democrat Hamas supporting propaganda that promoted the Hamas animals as heroes.”

Bots can make jokes now? But not click on links I guess.

[Riva]

It's not "riva-boy" any more? Make up your little creepy troll mind. But, in essence creepy little parrot troll, you're trying to attack him by painting him as allied with democrat supporters. Nicely stupid. Well done.

[Malika the Maiz]

I don’t accept that laughably naive explanation you do, but it’s your programming I guess.

[Frank Drackman]

Everybody funny, except you.

[Drewski]

Man, my first thought was that it's a surprisingly good choice, an anti-climate-change activist but competent administrator - but, no, I was thinking of a different Paul Ingrassia who was old and is now dead.

This might have a silver lining. Clips of Ingrassia calling the October 7 Hamas attack a "psyop" could erode Tump's support from conservative Jews. MAGA as a movement will turn on Jews sooner or later; it's good that they're putting up red flags in advance.

[Joe_dallas]

Its a report from NPR - which has a very poor track record for honest reporting

[Sarcastr0]

Has NPR printed fabricated events and quotes before? The usual charges of bias are about lack of coverage or leaving out context. You're accusing them of full-on fabulism. Any backup, or just don't wanna believe?

Also, always curious what sources you do accept as credible, since your takes are always so idiosyncratic.

[Joe_dallas]

yes
They definitely fabricated facts and it is done frequently

Week long expose on the impossibility of a covid lab leak

Harsh criticism of the "biased "judge ruling against the prosecution in the kyle rittenhouse trial without a single mention of the multiple instances of prosecution misconduct through out the trial

Week long expose during the first trump impeachment on the impropriety of investigation of political opponent without a single mention of the corruption involved in the bursima affiliation.

Just to name a few
Fox as bad as you want to criticize is vastly more honest than NPR

[Sarcastr0]

Look up what fabulism is.

It's not printing quotes from, people who Joe_dallas disagrees with.

It's fully making things up. Which is what you accuses NPR of doing so you can disbelieve that Trump appointed a dude who loves him some antisemites.

[Joe_dallas]

As I pointed out NPR makes shit up-
You just lack sufficient basic knowledge to be able recognize the blatant dishonesty
It shows with your comments about Brett.

It also shows your distaste for honesty

[Malika the Maiz]

First, reporting on X without mentioning Z is not making something up. Secondly, even if your examples hold water NPR reports on dozens of stories 24/7 365 days of the year, of course some might be in error. I mean, three in years would be great (consider you can get three wrong in a single post)!

[Joe_dallas]

Malika the Maiz 21 minutes ago
"First, reporting on X without mentioning Z is not making something up."

Omitting significant key elements on purpose which changes the story - is lying.

Sorry if you are incapable of grasping any concept of honesty.

[Joe_dallas]

I omitted how many times NPR advanced the theme " He is sharp as a tack"

They like the rest of the media knew they were lying

[David Nieporent]

I omitted how many times NPR advanced the theme " He is sharp as a tack"

You did omit that before. And you still did now. You don't provide any evidence that they did so even once, let alone the number of times they supposedly did that.

They like the rest of the media knew they were lying

You also omit any evidence in support of this claim!

[Joe_dallas]

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1230297978/biden-defended-his-mental-acuity-in-this-evenings-press-conference

[Joe_dallas]

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197961568

DN can only get caught lying - no longer capable of being honest
Just another left wing hack

[David Nieporent]

So I encourage everyone to read the two links bookkeeper_joe posted, to see that he may be functionally illiterate rather than a liar (though, as always, both is a likely possibility). Neither one remotely reflect NPR "advancing" any "theme" about Biden being "sharp as a tack."

[Joe_dallas]

DN - the opening paragraph
Try not to be embarrassed as you get caught lying.
Honesty is hard for a leftists

February 8, 20248:37 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
Mara Liasson 2010
Mara Liasson

3-Minute Listen
Transcript
President Biden gave a fiery defense of his mental acuity at the White House on Thursday after the Justice Department delivered a report that described him as an "elderly man with a poor memory."

[bernard11]

Joe Dallas,

You're accusing others of dishonesty? Did you read the clip you just posted?

Liasson did not say anything about Biden's mental acuity. Rather she said that Biden defended it after the Hur report came out.

Further, your other link betrays you as well. Liasson largely repeated the above, and then she and Shapiro mentioned several cases where Biden mixed up the names of world leaders, and said that Big majorities of both parties - voters in both parties think the president is too old, and they worry about his mental acuity. Doesn't sound too coverupish to me.

Maybe you're not a liar but just have very poor reading comprehension. Which is it, I wonder.

[Joe_dallas]

Bernard - perhaps you should read what the article stated and what the article omitted.

By the time of the debate, including the weeks and months prior to the debate, it was well known that biden mental capacities were in the tank.

NPR omitted any serious comments on his mental decline - ie NPR continued their participation of the cover up. Significant ommissions.

[Commenter_XY]

You and bernard11 will never live down your consistent lies about The Cauliflower's cognition. Never.

[bernard11]

You and bernard11 will never live down your consistent lies about The Cauliflower's cognition. Never.

Since I was a very far cry from being a White House insider I can hardly be accused of lying about internal goings on there. I doubt DN was an insider either. So here you are, Mr. Pious, blatantly violating the Ninth Commandment.

Further, since you are an avid Trump cultist I doubt you even have a good idea of what "lying" is. You obviously think it's bad, but never peep about your cult hero's endless stream of it.

If we are going to discuss comments that can't be lived down, you have a long list, Mr. Oopsie.

[David Nieporent]

DN - the opening paragraph
Try not to be embarrassed as you get caught lying.

Are you literally retarded? The opening paragraph does not so much as express an opinion on Biden's mental condition.

[David Nieporent]

By the time of the debate, including the weeks and months prior to the debate, it was well known that biden mental capacities were in the tank.

By the time of the debate, it was well known that bookkeeper_joe was a lying POS. Remember, he falsely claims that Biden was senile in 2020, even though Biden was obviously not senile in 2020 and in fact cleaned Trump's clock in two debates. So badly that MAGA invented a fake drug that Biden must have taken to cure dementia. He then retook it, according to MAGA, in early 2024, when he gave a strong performance at the SOTU, embarrassing bookkeeper_joe once again.

bookkeeper_joe is so stupid and impervious to logic and evidence that he both claims that the media covered it up and that everyone knew it.

[Joe_dallas]

David Nieporent 19 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
I omitted how many times NPR advanced the theme " He is sharp as a tack"

You did omit that before. And you still did now. You don't provide any evidence that they did so even once, let alone the number of times they supposedly did that.

They like the rest of the media knew they were lying

'You also omit any evidence in support of this claim!'

D - leftist liar - N

who is unaware of the multitude of stories exposing the coverup!

[Joe_dallas]

Dishonest Dave N

Ethically compromised
Repeating discredited leftists talking points.

Tell us why there are now so many stories coming out about the coverup?
Did you miss the story of biden getting lost in the closet?

[bernard11]

Joe_dallas,

perhaps you should read what the article stated and what the article omitted.

I did read what the article - which is actually a transcript - stated, and no one from NPR said anything about Biden being "sharp as a tack."

It mostly discussed Hur's comment, Biden's reaction, and the likey political consequences.

I don't know how to read what the transcript omitted. Was there an earlier one somewhere that NPR is hiding? Or is the stuff you're talking about a product of your Trump-addled brain?

[Brett Bellmore]

NPR advances false narratives, and they'll gladly give liars a soapbox if they like the lie, but they are generally careful not to directly attribute to people words they didn't actually say, as opposed to just taking things wildly out of context or discussing things as though something had been said.

In that regard they're a step above a lot of media outlets. They're careful propagandists.

[Sarcastr0]

they'll gladly give liars a soapbox if they like the lie
That is well below Joe_dallas' charge, but is still pretty hyperbolic.

Your accusation meets the recklessness standard for actual malice.

That doesn't sound careful. I'm skeptical that this is more than vibes.

Now, I don't take NPR as a sole source; they're biased for sure. But you're going well into more hyperbolic realms.

[Joe_dallas]

NPR flat lies - frequently
Sorry if you lack the capacity to grasp honesty

[bernard11]

Pot, kettle.

[TwelveInchPianist]

President Trump on Monday declined to condemn the actions of the 17-year-old suspect in the shooting of three protesters against police brutality in Kenosha, Wis., claiming, without evidence, that it appeared the gunman was acting in self-defense.

No evidence other than the video.

[Joe_dallas]

Twelve
correct - another example of NPR's consistent dishonesty.

[bernard11]

Link(s)?

[bernard11]

Again, link(s)?

[David Nieporent]

As I pointed out NPR makes shit up-

You did not in fact "point out" this. You asserted it. Continuing your historically unbroken streak of never actually giving any specifics in support of any of your claims.

You just lack sufficient basic knowledge

You're. A. Bookkeeper.

[Joe_dallas]

Numerous others have provided factually correct examples

Unlike DN - I am not an active participate in the multitude of deceptions perpetrated by leftists.

[Joe_dallas]

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/12/nx-s1-5003136/biden-trump-debate-preparation

[bernard11]

Numerous others have provided factually correct examples

Have they now? And what about you? Given the numerous examples available, why haven't you cited some, or at least quoted those "numerous others."

Do you think that news media that consistently present falsehoods should be ignored, not considered reliable sources of information?

If so, I have some unfortunate news.

[Frank Drackman]

And everything they reported on the Duke Lacrosse case

[bye]

Rolling Stone should get the dis-credit on this

The Curious Provisions of the Rolling Stone Settlement

Minding The Campus
https://www.mindingthecampus.org › 2017/06/16 › the...
Jun 16, 2017 — Rolling Stone magazine recently settled a defamation lawsuit over their falsely reported article about a gang rape at UVA's Phi Kappa Psi fraternity.

Duke came first and whoever was to blame is not the issue, Rolling Stone thought rape cases sell copy and went with it, totally unethically . They opened the door

[David Nieporent]

Also, always curious what sources you do accept as credible, since your takes are always so idiosyncratic.

Well, there was a former health care industry execeutive with no medical/science background who blogged about COVID that bookkeeper_joe relied on for all his pandemic knowledge.

[Joe_dallas]

Repetitively wrong DN

[Joe_dallas]

According to DN -
zoom learning did not hurt kids education

according to DN - The vax effectiveness did not wane.

According to DN - everything the CDC posted about masking was correct.

DN - did you get anything right with covid?

[David Nieporent]

Literally everything bookkeeper_joe wrote here is a fabrication. As is the case 100% of the time, he cites no evidence in support of his claims, because he has none.

[Joe_dallas]

DN - you made those statements multiple times

[David Nieporent]

A multiple of zero.

[Malika the Maiz]

I’m certainly glad we don’t have to worry about the cognitive capacity of an elderly President anymore!

“The US president misspoke when saying tariffs are "misunderstood" in business. He cited Mattel, which is famous for making Barbie dolls, as an example of a country thinking about counter-tariffs.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cn4q950zxgqo

[Moderation4ever]

As I have noted Joe Biden is in the rear view mirror and the President we should be watching is Donald Trump. What do his aids know that they are not telling us. May that he spends more on screen time than the average American teenager and that his reading comprehension is below that of an average fourth grader.

[bye]

Biden the lawyer was bottom 10 of his law class (Syracuse !!)
following a really poor undergraduate performance
For his bachelor's degree, he graduated 566th out of 688 students.bottom 18%

HE is dumb and lazy. Any question of that? At least Trump had a real job, not 50 years mooing in the DC pastures

[hobie]

I mean, the man clearly doesn't seem to be aware that he's pardoning militia members that produced political violence on his behalf, political cronies, Wall Street titans, and mega donors. What do his handlers know, and when did they know it?!

[apedad]

Trump persecution of WilmerHale ruled unconstitutional

WASHINGTON (CN) — A federal judge on Tuesday struck down President Donald Trump’s executive order targeting the law firm WilmerHale, the latest legal blow to the president’s efforts to cow the legal profession into representing issues he favors.

Senior U.S. District Judge Richard Leon found Trump’s March 27 order — directing agency heads to review WilmerHale attorneys’ security clearances, government contracts with the firm and attorney access to government buildings — “must be struck down in its entirety as unconstitutional.”

Leon had previously granted WilmerHale’s motion for a temporary restraining order blocking the sections ordering review of government contracts tied to the firm and limiting attorney access to government buildings.

https://www.courthousenews.com/trump-persecution-of-wilmerhale-ruled-unconstitutional/

Pissing off lawyers is not a good strategy.

[Estragon]

I remain amused to no end that the Paul Weiss capitulation features so prominently in these decisions. The Paul Weiss capitulation that certain doofus commentators around here lavishly praised as a savvy and wise business decision!

I’ll also note that while we are still waiting on the Sussman Godfrey decision, the Administration has yet to appeal any of the three other decisions. Perhaps someone with more legal training than Steven Miller finally woke up to the potential legal exposure here?

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.278290/gov.uscourts.dcd.278290.133.1.pdf

[David Nieporent]

By far Trump's strongest position is on the security clearances. Not because his stripping of those clearances was reasonable or ethical, but because there's some caselaw suggesting that the president's power to strip them is not reviewable by the courts.

I would not have been surprised if Trump decided to appeal only that aspect of the decisions. But if he were going to do even that, I would've expected a rush to the circuit court and then SCOTUS for an emergency stay of that aspect. And that didn't happen. And when one waits to ask for emergency relief, that in itself is grounds to deny it. So maybe (slightly) saner/more competent heads prevailed.

[Estragon]

Oh I completely agree. But even where Trump’s position would seem the strongest— the security clearances— the Paul Weiss back-and-forth has done the government no favors:

“And if any doubt remains as to the sincerity of the invocation of national security, take a look at the Paul Weiss saga. Paul Weiss’s executive order imposed the same tailored process on its employees’ security clearances. See First Paul Weiss E.O. § 2. What it took to escape that process—denouncing a former partner, changing client selection and hiring practices, and pledging pro bono work to the President’s liking—had not even a glancing relationship to national security.”

[Malika the Maiz]

I’m sure JB will be all over this!

“The U.S. Marshals Service investigated 373 separate threats to judges in the first five months of 2025, compared with 509 probes all of last year, according to agency data that U.S. District Judge Esther Salas of New Jersey shared with The Washington Post. The threats targeted 277 judges, some of whom were threatened more than once, compared with 379 judges threatened in all of 2024.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/05/30/judges-courthouses-threats-security-trump/

[Riva]

Poland must be quite a disappointment to many of you little creeps. Oh what to do? Hey maybe some Polish court or other European Union authority can cancel the election result? Or better yet jail the winner? Sometimes you just have to destroy democracy to save it…or something.

[tylertusta]

Democracy only counts when left-wingers win. I thought you understood this rule.

[Malika the Maiz]

Maybe the Poles that voted the other way should storm the capital and demand the votes be thrown out?

[tylertusta]

Wasn't Poland's last color revolution just two years ago?

How quickly people forget.

[Malika the Maiz]

I must say I don’t keep up with Poland much, good thing my comment wasn’t really about that.

[Kazinski]

I guess I forgot.

Poland had parliamentary elections in 2023, the pro-EU party won, but the holdover conservative president had veto power to frustrate their agenda.

I would hardly call that a color revolution.

Now another conservative has been elected President maintaining control of the veto.

[tylertusta]

Color revolutions don't necessarily have to involve deposing the sitting government outside of the electoral process.

Poland is actually another good example of this. In 1988, domestic opposition to communism used protests and strikes to bring the government to the table, which by 1989 resulted in the legalization of non-communist political parties and free elections that swept the communists out of power shortly afterwards.

[Riva]

Well first someone would have had to steal the election. Then plant a copious number of government assets in a large crowd and get some Ray Epskys to urge people to go into whatever passes for their Capitol. Much easier to just employ the legal system and have judges invalidate the democratic process. They have some experience with that and some good examples to follow here.

[Sarcastr0]

Funny, the ones talking about breaking the law and political violence if they don't get there way all seem to be MAGA.

[tylertusta]

"Seem"

[Sarcastr0]

You saying a lot of them are false flags?

[tylertusta]

I'm saying that for someone who routinely points out weasel words and demands proof, you don't follow your own exacting standards.

Also, you need to kick your straw man habit.

[Sarcastr0]

Seem was for rhetoric - I'm asserting that MAGA people, both on this very website and leaders like Stephen Miller, advocate for defying court orders, and threaten violence if they don't get their way.

[bye]

But in Rhetoric class that move would be mocked. It shows shallowness of thought and needless provocation. If you don't mean 'seems' you should not say it.

[Michael P]

Gaslight0 is Very Concerned about the MAGA types who call out lefties who break the law and commit political violence. Recently, MAGAts have complained about the guy who tried to burn elderly Jews to death in Boulder CO, or the women in multiple states who have shot up Teslas or Tesla dealerships for reasons like supposedly standing up for their country. Gaslight0 thinks that such criticisms cannot be allowed to stand.

[Sarcastr0]

Your lack of actual concern for these events is evident in your immediate deployment solely to try and win an argument on the Internet.

I do hope you have other hobbies.

[Michael P]

Sad. Gaslight0 only has two tricks in his bag: straw men and personal attacks against people who disagree with him. He never engage on the substance.

[Sarcastr0]

I've never seen you share an anecdote for any reason other than to claim the left at large is at fault.

If you want to show otherwise, go for it. Otherwise, I've rolled in the mud with you too much.

[hobie]

Instead of closing the border and expelling terrorists like the guy in Boulder, Sleepy Joe instead is concentrating on publicity stunts with oped cosigners and Venezuelans with knuckle tattoos. I say Sleepy Joe because to you Hillbillies he's still doing all this from the grave. If I told you Trump was actually doing it, you wouldn't believe me

[Sarcastr0]

“Miller said, ‘Why aren’t you at Home Depot? Why aren’t you at 7-Eleven?'” ... ‘What do you mean you’re going after criminals?’

Single source [everyone else is just reposting the Examiner's reporting], but seems an admission against interest:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/3425297/stephen-miller-eviscerated-ice-officials-deportation-numbers/

[Frank Drackman]

It’s “their” jeez, you just got spell-checked by a marginally literate troll!

[bye]

If one is spell-checked by a marginally literate troll you are actually insulting the one corrected and not the corrector !!!
Think about that.

[bernard11]

Not only talking about breaking the law and committing politicl violence, but actually doing those things.

[Armchair]

Here's a quandry for you all.

Let's say that I'm a good minded entrepreneur. I'd grown up in a rural area of Arkansas, gone off to make my fortune (say in mining), but then wanted to return home. And I noticed a gap in certain services. There was no local theater, no real local medical practice, and no real legal offices. And I wanted to fix that, through good entrepreneurship.

So, I take my capital that I've earned, and I use it to build a theater. I bring in actors and production individuals. I pay them all a salary, and collect the proceeds to keep the entire practice running. Completely legal, not a problem.

And then I take my capital that I've earned, and I use it to build a clinic. I bring in doctors and nurses, pay them a salary, collect the proceeds and use it to keep the entire business running. Completely legal, not a problem.

And then I take my capital that I've earned, and I use it to build a legal office. I bring in the lawyers, pay them a salary and then...then they say "Oh, we're forbidden from "sharing" any of the legal revenue we earn with you. If you were a lawyer, it would be different, even if you didn't do anything with the cases. So, then the business fails, and the legal services desert continues.

So, here's the question for you all

1. Is this "we can't share legal fees with non-lawyers" clause a form of restricting business/regulatory burden that ends up hurting people (for example the legal desert example above), and it should be made illegal?

Or

2. Should other businesses adopt this model if it is of benefit.? IE, only doctors are allowed to share fees with other doctors from medical expenses.

[Brett Bellmore]

Law practice is a labor guild that survives only because it's particular area of labor has to do with what's allowed to survive. No, of course this sort of rule shouldn't survive.

Don't expect lawyers to let it go away, though.

[Armchair]

What type of case would be necessary to make sure it went away then? What would be an ideal situation to expose the "injustice" and make the rule illegal?

[Brett Bellmore]

I don't think "cases" can do it, when everybody involved in deciding if it happens is a guild member. It would require legislation, not litigation.

[not guilty]

"What type of case would be necessary to make sure it went away then? What would be an ideal situation to expose the 'injustice' and make the rule illegal?"

Authority to regulate the practice of law in each state lies with and inheres in the state's court of last resort. This includes adoption and/or modification of rules of professional conduct, which can be amended or repealed by such courts of last resort. Other than my own state, I know about any state's particular mechanism for doing so.

The Supreme Court of Tennessee opined in Barger v. Brock, 535 S.W.2d 337, 342 (Tenn. 1976):

This Court welcomes the continuing criticisms of its Rules. They never become final, and are always subject to change. We solicit advice and suggestions from the Bench and Bar for their improvement. When any individual deems any Rule of Court to be objectionable from any standpoint, it is his privilege to petition the Court for its elimination or modification.

"Any individual" there would include non-lawyers as well. Although I haven't researched the matter, I surmise that other states have similar mechanisms.

[Brett Bellmore]

Right, non-lawyers can suggest that it go away, can ask that it go away, even demand that it go away, but it's not going away unless either the lawyers themselves feel like making it go away, or the legislatures, (Themselves heavy in lawyers.) order it to go away.

[Armchair]

It's that whole self interest thing going on.

[Ska]

It was illegal for non-CPAs to be called partners in CPA firms in NY state. The law was changed a little more than a year ago. We had attorneys with equity interests who used the title Principal, and that was kosher. Lobbying helped change the law so that as long as the majority of a firm's partners were CPAs you could have non-CPAs use the partner title - but equity and income sharing was always allowed.

While the hypothetical sounds foolish at first glance, it's more relevant than ever now considering PE firms are willing to buy large, non-majority interests in firms. And if you were a 65 year old partner in a small firm with no succession plan, you'd be happy to hear them out.

[Kazinski]

I'd say you need better lawyers and accountants.

They have models out there of legal services insurance, co-ops, partnerships etc, If you are financing the lawyers you should be able to find a way to encumber their revenue stream.

[Poxigah146]

Arizona is the only state that allows direct sharing, if I remember correctly.

Everything you're referring to is more or a lending arrangement.

[Armchair]

you would think that, but look at the evidence.

You've got plenty of theaters run/owned by non-actors
You've got plenty of hospitals run/owned by non-doctors

How many firms that do legal services have a non-lawyer owning or running them?

[not guilty]

Armchair, you may have heard the maxim, the man who pays the fiddler calls the tune.

Your hypothetical legal clinic would subordinate legal professionals who are bound by rules of professional ethics to the interests of an employer who need not govern his conduct by (and is free to thumb his nose at) rules governing professional conduct.

[Armchair]

Sounds like you come down on point 2 then...

Make the argument why Doctors shouldn't benefit from a similar arrangement to Lawyers. Why Doctors shouldn't "share fees" with the interests of employers who aren't necessarily governed by the Hippocratic oath.

Or alternatively, support such a position for doctors.

[Michael P]

Doctors have a stronger case for that kind of rule than lawyers, and lots of professions have at least as strong a case as lawyers do: teachers, architects, any field that has Professional Engineers (or the equivalent in other countries), and so on. They somehow manage to get by with codes of ethics that don't require membership in a guild just to fund the business.

[not guilty]

Not my circus; not my monkeys.

[Armchair]

Of course....why answer a difficult question when you can avoid it instead. Typical.

[not guilty]

No, I don't regard myself as qualified to opine on how medical doctors should structure their practices. There may be ethical and/or economic concerns that I haven't absorbed. And unlike too many other commenters here, I don't choose to fly by the seat of my pants in an area I am unfamiliar with.

[bye]

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/v2/D4D12AQG-1qSsZ8idPg/article-cover_image-shrink_720_1280/article-cover_image-shrink_720_1280/0/1721208334710?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=0ZqrCJ6qzJADifHHrP3wtPoWUSSPrH6QLPf5HqY4WW0

[David Nieporent]

Is this "we can't share legal fees with non-lawyers"

I don't know Arkansas law, but many states have laws similar to this restricting the ownership of medical practices by non-doctors.

[Armchair]

Interesting. Can you cite any of these states or laws?

Here's my example. There are a number of for-profit hospital chains that are publicly traded. IE HCA Healthcare or Community Health Systems. They have hospitals or clinics in many states. https://www.chs.net/serving-communities/locations/ or

https://hcahealthcare.com/locations/

Being publicly traded, at least some of their owners are not doctors.

But that of course doesn't cover all the states (it's only 2 chains), so I was curious about these laws that you cite.

[David Nieporent]

NJ is certainly one. As is NY. It's called the Corporate Practice of Medicine doctrine. (I am not going to try to explain it in a short blog comment, but if you google that term, you can learn more than you want to know.) In states that have that doctrine, doctors cannot actually be employees of the hospital corporations.

[Armchair]

It's an interesting concept, the Corporate Practice of Medicine doctrine. Here's a description out of Texas

https://www.texmed.org/CPMwhitepaper/

But it doesn't appear to bar publicly traded hospitals, as Texas has a number of them.

(New York is different, it specifically bans for profit hospitals).

[Social Justice is neither]

Depends on the goals. You could loan them restricted funds to recruit and retain to earn back a modest sum and keep local services available. Now you wouldn't be able to cash in on lucrative risky ventures like class actions or invalidating executive compensation but serving a community should be something you could structure.

[bye]

Non-lawyer , medical, expenses even --- all terms that will bring in an avalanche of wangling.
Is a Paralegal a lawyer or not
Medical , what about the guys repairing your x-ray machine.
Expenses...lunch, dinner, travel, just professional consultation , what?

Don't adopr or reject the model, it's just ambulance chasers hoping by your adoption or rejection to get some more paid trouble-making money.

[Martinned]

Why do populists always insist on naming everything the opposite of what it actually is? Why not at least name it something boring? The OPM's version of “merit hiring plan” now prioritises loyalty to Trump over actual, you know, merits.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/30/trump-administration-patriotic-americans-federal-workforce-00376752

all federal job vacancy announcements starting at the GS-5 pay grade or above will require short essay responses to questions about their commitment to the Constitution, how they plan to improve government efficiency, how they plan to advance Trump’s executive orders and policy priorities, and about their work ethic.

So yes, they first spent four months getting rid of as many competent civil servants as possible, and now they're going to recruit Trump toadies to replace them.

[Martinned]

O, and people will also have to pay to apply for a government job.

To build a pipeline of potential executive leaders, the memo says, OPM will provide an 80-hour intensive “fee-based aspiring executive development program” that’s “grounded in the Constitution, laws, and Founding ideals of our government, and will provide training on President Trump’s Executive Orders.”

[TwelveInchPianist]

How's that "loyalty to Trump"? He's the current President, and part of their job would be to advance his executive orders and policy priorities.

[Malika the Maiz]

Back to the awesomely efficient, totally non-swamp days of spoils and patronage government employment! Tammany Hall, here we come!

Of course you want accountability to elected officials but you also want to hire in a merits based way, professionals, experts, people with experience, so that government tasks, many of which are politically neutral and matters of technical know how, get done in a way that, I dunno, executes the laws faithfully (when the legislature passes a law, for clean water or good roads, etc., they want…clean water and good roads).

[Ted Chen]

I agree with everything you wrote in the 2nd paragraph. The issue is though that too much of the Federal bureaucracy doesn't operate that way anymore. They are more focused on enacting their individual (or organizations) prefered policies. It's agency capture of one type of another.

Did you know that when the Pendleton Civil Service Reform was enacted only about 10% of the Federal employees was covered? I don't know the percentage now, but my understanding is that only the political appointees are not covered. That could mean 90%+ of the Federal employees are covered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform_Act

My idea would be to seprate the Federal employees that are "do'ers" (for lack of a better word) versus those that are setting policy (ie managers). The "do'ers" would need to listen to the managers completely (assuming the instructions are legal). The do'ers would get civil service protections because their role would be just executing policy.

For the policy setters, they would get no civil service protections. They have the role to debate policy and recommendations to the political appointees, so their role is political.

Though I worry about corruption, I think this new civil service structure would address concerns from Republicans, while keeping the best professionals, experts, and people with experience to keep the Federal government running as smooth as possible.

[Brett Bellmore]

Right. A major theme of his administration is making the bureaucracy more responsive to the elected government. Instead of being responsive to the priorities of the Democratic party regardless of who occupies the Oval office or controls Congress.

[Martinned]

I can see how facts having a well-known liberal bias might be a problem for people who prioritise loyalty to the Great Leader over competent evidence-based policy making. But that doesn't mean it isn't a disaster for the country.

[Brett Bellmore]

"The facts having a well known liberal bias" is what confirmation bias looks like from the inside. You'd realize that if you engaged in a bit of introspection.

[Social Justice is neither]

Shoving his head up his own ass is as Introspective as he gets.

[Martinned]

Who is paying for those tariffs again?

[Mr. Bumble]

People who have decided that they really want the product?

[Martinned]

Yes. It turns out that no amount of right-wing populist cheap talk can overturn the laws of tax incidence.

[bye]

Biases may cause fallacies, but don't necessarily. And fallacies may be caused by biases, but not necessarily

[bye]

In Epistemology , no fact is self-interpreting.

The body of naïve realism is an “already out there now real,” where these terms have their meaning fixed solely by elements within sense experience and so without the intervention of intelligent and reasonable questions and answers. It is the object of the immediacy of sense, i.e., of a relation prior to and independent of questions and answers.] Hence the world of naïve realism should be characterized as a-problematic. In opposition to this conception of an object, Insight holds that a material being, like any being, is the objective of our intentionality.

[bye]

Pollicy making relies most basically and importantly on PRINCIPLES.
Else you don't even know what facts you need

Facts are not self-interpreting.

[Sarcastr0]

Instead of being responsive to the priorities of the Democratic party regardless of who occupies the Oval office or controls Congress.

MAGA has decided it hates America's institutions. That doesn't mean all the non-MAGA people working at them are Democrat zealots.

A stupid 'what's your favorite EO' is a flex more than anything else.
If you hate diversity statements (and I'm no fan) you shouldn't like this bullshit.

[Krayt]

It's expected the president's lieutenants push his policies. The only question is is GS-5 the appropriate level?

GS-3 or GS-4: typically internships, student jobs or lower level administrative work.
GS-5 to GS-7: mostly entry-level and administrative positions.
GS-8 to GS-12: mostly mid-level technical and first level supervisory positions.
GS-13 to GS-15: Top-level technical and supervisory positions.

So, no.

[David Nieporent]

When they get their jobs they have to take an oath. That oath is to the constitution, not to the president or his policies.

[Martinned]

That's not a lot of comfort if only Trump toadies get jobs in the first place.

[Michael P]

Part of doing a job well is following direction from superiors.

Now do the "Affordable Care Act"that drove up healthcare costs and the "Inflation Reduction Act" that increased inflation.

[Martinned]

Now do the "Affordable Care Act"that drove up healthcare costs and the "Inflation Reduction Act" that increased inflation.

Certainly the Inflation Reduction Act is high on my list of BS names of laws that wouldn't be allowed in any respectable country.

[Sarcastr0]

Part of doing a job well is following direction from superiors.

Yeah, these questions go well beyond that.

A grants officer does not need to have a favorite Trump executive order to make sure the paperwork is properly filled out and timely signed in order.

This is MAGA demanding slavish loyalty just as a dominance thing. You see it in civil servants, and Harvard, and immigrants, and everything they can.

That's authoritarianism-as-culture.

[Commenter_XY]

You mean, like the ironically named Inflation Reduction Act?

[Martinned]

Meanwhile, it turns out that having a president who "doesn't read" is a problem:

One idea that has been discussed is to transform the PDB so it mirrors a Fox News broadcast, according to four of the people with direct knowledge of the discussions. Under that concept as it has been discussed, the national intelligence director’s office could hire a Fox News producer to produce it and one of the network’s personalities to present it; Trump, an avid Fox News viewer, could then watch the broadcast PDB whenever he wanted.

A new PDB could include not only graphics and pictures but also maps with animated representations of exploding bombs, similar to a video game, another one of the people with knowledge of the discussions said.

“The problem with Trump is that he doesn’t read,” said another person with direct knowledge of the PDB discussions. “He’s on broadcast all the time.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbard-considering-ways-revamp-trumps-intelligence-briefing-rcna209805

[Malika the Maiz]

Just go straight to puppet shows for the dotard.

[apedad]

Meh, not a big issue.

The problem isn't how information is fed to the president - it's what's being fed to him.

[Martinned]

Well, if the "how" involves people who work for Fox News, that seems like a pretty big problem.

[Malika the Maiz]

Remember, every accusation is a confession with these people. They howl about media bias and collaboration with administrations and then Trump staffs his administration with dozens of Fox News folks.

[Sarcastr0]

That level of inability to focus evinces a shitty executive function.

Though yeah, we already knew that.

[Moderation4ever]

The problem is that a President that can not read, that is functionally illiterate, is more dependent on what is feed to him. The illiterate person can not go back to the source document, report or news article, and verify the information for themselves.

[Bob from Ohio]

"can not read, that is functionally illiterate"

Preferring visual is not proof he "can not read, that is functionally illiterate". Its just a different style of learning.

[Malika the Maiz]

A picture book style!

[SRG2]

Just like someone wio cannot perform simple calculations and uses a calculator instead is not functionally innumerate, they just have a different style of doing arithmetic. Gottit

[Bob from Ohio]

Its so common there is even a wikipedia entry on visual learning.

You just hate Trump.

[SRG2]

Not "just" And regardless of how you attempt to play it, being unable to read at a basic level or if you can, being unable to comprehend what you're reading, is by definition functional illiteracy. Nor can all information be effectively represented visually

[Bob from Ohio]

He doesn't want to read all that policy stuff, its not that he cannot..

Like Churchill.

“This paper, by its very length, defends itself from ever being read.”
― Winston S. Churchill

[Moderation4ever]

Quoting Churchill is interesting but Churchill could read and did.

[SRG2]

Comparing Churchill's intellectual capacities with Trump's is like comparing the charms of Monica Bellucci with those of Roseanne Barr,

Plus Churchill got a Nobel literature prize back in the days when that meant something - and you don't get that without being able to read.

Your defence of Trump is getting increasingly stupid, nay baroque,

[Moderation4ever]

The problem is there is no indication that in Donald Trump's case it is preferred. There is no real indication that Donald Trump can read enough to not be functionally illiterate. I would say that much of the evidence is circumstantial, but it his almost complete reliance on audit/visual media does make a compelling case.

[Mr. Bumble]

Says someone who is functionally a moron.

[Moderation4ever]

I have noted this type of response before and find it interesting. Rather than prove I am wrong about President Trump's functionally illiteracy, or accept the President is illiterate and say it does not matter. You attack me because I ask the question.

Some what like President Trump who when he cannot answer a question attacks the person asking the question. Is that a MAGA thing?

[bye]

Wow do you not know Politics I have heard several high-ups say that you don't have time to read in high office, if you don't have it already, you don't have it.
So Biden once quoted De Civitate Dei, you KNOW KNOW KNOW he never read it, 1100 pages in the Penguin addition.

[bye]

ARe you on Biden again

[David Nieporent]

The problem isn't how information is fed to the president - it's what's being fed to him.

Yes, the latter is a bigger deal, but the former is a big one, too. Notwithstanding the old saying about pictures and 1000 words, you can convey a lot more information and nuance with words than with videos of things blowing up

[Armchair]

"Notwithstanding the old saying about pictures and 1000 words,"

The old saying is true. You can convey much more information with a picture than with words. Much...Much...more.

There's a reason all the wanted posters have a picture rather than a description.

[bye]

Okay but the saying itself is in words and would not work as a picture. Let's not get self-contradictory, posting like Armchair a bunch of words about how pictures are better 🙂

[bye]

another person who is presumed to read ? Why presume that.
Jimmy Carter quoted William James, and the award-winningly stupid Biden qouted (once) St Augustine's De Civitate Dei.

[Malika the Maiz]

The trans athlete tying for first in the girl’s track and field event and the sauna case in California has me thinking about how the sports and shared private areas, two of the toughest issues imho about how trans people can have their dignity respected while protecting the experience of girls and women in these areas can be solved. Now, a lot of commenters here aren’t interested in respecting the dignity of trans persons (I’m betting there’s an overlap of folks that don’t care about women’s sports too), I’m not interested in those views. I’ll post another comment below for you guys, go nuts! But for the people here who do respect that what are some possible solutions?

[Moderation4ever]

There is no doubt that trans athletes creates problems, one of which is an opportunity to dump on trans people. A real problem is that addressing the problem is mostly done by dumping on trans people. I would say that first things is that agencies that regulate a sport should be where decisions are made and not in the government. The agencies or group governing the sports should be looking at there sport and deciding how much it is affected by the athletes biological sex. Running and swimming at a competitive level need to be addressed. Is curling really affected? I don't know but I leave it to the curling governing body to decide.

I would also say that for non completive sport programs and in particular where there are both sexes on teams that trans issues should not be a concern.

[Don Nico]

Certainly is not an problem for Contract Bridge

[Michael P]

I'm not sure what would be worse: people who never learned why we have dedicated restrooms, divisions of sports, etc. for women, or people who think "transgender identity" suddenly makes those reasons obsolete.

[Sarcastr0]

Moderation4ever had a thoughtful post, I feel.

[Don Nico]

Ideally, the governing bodies of the sport in question should have the more competent agency.
Unfortunately, such bodies cannot be relied on to make prudent decisions as the scandal in Olympic women's boxing shows

[Malika the Maiz]

That’s one example and was a complicated set of facts.

[Joe_dallas]

The facts were not complicated in the olympic womens boxing.

Though obviously too complicated for you to understand

[Joe_dallas]

report today
From 3 Wire Sports:

Unless someone manipulates the evidence, the result is going to be crystal clear, déjà vu all over again, because in chromosome tests given amid the International Boxing Association’s [IBA] 2022 and 2023 world championships, the boxer’s DNA showed XY markers with “male” karyotypes. The IOC [International Olympic Committee] knew this. And still it permitted Khelif, and Yu Ting Lin of Chinese Taipei, whose tests turned up the same markers, to compete in Paris. Lin also won gold.

3 Wire Sports remains the only journalistic outlet to have seen these 2022 and 2023 tests

[bernard11]

Don't be too hasty, Don.

It is not now a problem, but could become one quite easily. At the national and international levels bridge has events which are restricted to women, and others that are restricted to "mixed" pairs or teams, where each pair must consist of one male and one female.

Now what happens when a transsexual female wants to enter one of these events? It seems easy enough to say "no problem," since bridge is not a physical competition (not entirely true, but not important here, I think.) But the fact is that the top ranks of the game are very much dominated by male players. Why that is is much discussed, but social forces are clearly at work in addition to any biological/neurological/psychological factors that may be involved.

So suppose a transsexual player who is maybe a bit below the top level overall starts playing in women's events and doing exceptionally well. Same problem, but even more complex, because the sources of the differences may be more complex than strength and speed.

[Don Nico]

Thanks for the reply and correction.
I should have remembered what my philosophy professor taught me. "You never have to make things up. No Matter how preposterous,you can always find some people who do it.
For me I don't see any reason for Men's and Women's category in contract bridge.

[bernard11]

I don't see any reason for Men's and Women's category in contract bridge.

The reasons are historical, political, social and, I suppose, economic. In any event, they are quite complex and I wouldn't try to explain it all (even if I fully understood it) in a blog comment.

If your notion is that the point is to determine who is the best player, then you have a point. But bear in mind, first, that bridge is a partnership/team game, and that the formation of teams and partnerships is itself fraught. And that is just the start of the complications.

[Gasman]

"Certainly is not an problem for Contract Bridge"

Two words: Women's chess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_World_Chess_Championship

[Don Nico]

" Women's chess. "
More foolishness that assumes that women need a separate league to winner a title.

[ducksalad]

I would say that first things is that agencies that regulate a sport should be where decisions are made and not in the government.

I agree with this, especially with regards to the federal government. It's not one of their legitimate functions and we shouldn't have sports rules and winners changing because the election results shifted by 2 or 3%.

The more extensive solution is to get state-funded schools and universities out of competitive organized sports. (Competitive meaning at the level where anyone cares about who wins.) Doesn't mean the sports go away, just organized as intramurals outside the school system.

For sports just intended to get students some physical activity and social interaction, do elementary school type co-ed stuff that's non-contact, the team only lasts for that one game, no championships or tournaments, and most importantly doesn't need locker rooms and uniforms. Sunday picnic sports, basically.

[Malika the Maiz]

I do think European style clubs and academies would be a good idea in general but I’m not sure it solves this problem.

[Martinned]

The Scottish and English FA also adopted transphobic policies recently, so no.

[Mr. Bumble]

There is no fear involved, except for the fear that allowing men to compete against women is harmful to an honest competition and the women involved.

[Martinned]

No. Men were not allowed in women's football before either. Now they made rules that ban certain women from competing in women's football, for reasons that have no foundation other than TERF hysteria.

I mean, it's not even right-wing populism like in the US, because the English and Scottish FAs are hardly run by Nigel Farage. It's left-wing transphobia the way JK Rowling and others have been pushing it for the better part of a decade.

[Don Nico]

"Competitive meaning at the level where anyone cares about who wins"
You really demean the intensity of feeling about the range of levels of amateur sports, especially with respect to below Division 1 competition.

What is wrong with "fair means fair/" The question is similar to "what part of 'no' don't you understand?"

[ducksalad]

This is exactly what I mean.

When someone decides to perform some "intensity of feeling" there isn't going to be a solution, and I'm not willing to give a government-backed victory to whoever emotes the hardest, claims the greatest victimhood, or enlists the most politicians on their side.

The conservatives, the trans activists, and the helicopter parents for both sides can go do their culture war in their own spaces (and I recommend the plural strongly) without the aid of the taxpayers and the police.

PS So sorry you felt demeaned.

[Don Nico]

You really fail reading comprehension.
The people you demean are the players, parents and friends/fans of those folks whose athletic activities you think that no one cares about.

[ducksalad]

Where did I say no one cares? Read carefully yourself before you jump on others. I said sports that people care about should be sponsored outside government funded schools.

Not sure how you could change that into a judgment about how many people care or how much people care, much less demeaning them.

Now, if someone thinks the most important thing about sports is that it be regulated by the government and everyone else be forced to play sports the way the way they like it, then I'm fine with demeaning that belief.

[Don Nico]

You said,"Competitive meaning at the level where anyone cares about who wins.."with the clear meaning that non- Div-1 and pro-sports are all that people car about.
Don't try to gaslight your way out of your callousness.

[Brett Bellmore]

" A real problem is that addressing the problem is mostly done by dumping on trans people."

It's basically impossible to rationally address the problem without "dumping on trans people", at least as trans people and their advocates define it. The problems all stem from guys pretending to be girls, and the pretense being treated seriously. (Girls who pretend to be guys are equally unreasonable, but cause fewer actual problems, at least for other people.)

All the rational solutions involve treating guys as guys regardless of whether they proclaim they are girls.

And you'll call that dumping on them.

[Sarcastr0]

Rational isn't a magic word. It does not render ipse-dixit logic anything more than bare assertion.

Your argument could as easily apply to any other bigotry as well:
-Jews and their mania for filthy lucre.
-Blacks and their uppity delusions they're fit for mental work.
-Women and their thinking they can control their emotions and act like men.

[Don Nico]

"Rational isn't a magic word. "
True, it is magical only when you use it.
Your denial of Brett's comment is just a full-blown ipse dixit

[bernard11]

Well, Don, I don't think so.

Brett has long insisted that transsexuals are mentally ill by definition. Talk about ipse dixit. Despite his talk about all those biology courses he took he has no qualifications, either by training or experience, to pass medical judgments on people he has never met or talked. In fact, I doubt he has spent much time talking to mental health specialists about the subject. The guy is a fan of conversion therapy, for Pete's sake.

And then he proposes to declare what is or is not a "rational solution," as if he were the only one entitled to decide rationality. (Just as he is the only one who understands the Constitution.)

What is "rational," after all, is not absolute, but depends on one's objectives, and how one views tradeoffs. To declare something "the only rational solution" because you like the outcome is not serious.

[Don Nico]

"transsexuals are mentally ill by definition. Talk about ipse dixit."
Not ipse dixit, typical of the way the DSM has changed over the years, not because of new medical science, but because of changing societal beliefs.

I agree that contradictory prudential courses can both be rational.

[Social Justice is neither]

Doesn't help that the advocates lump together people with mental issues, kinksters and actual predators of some degree as if they're all the same.

[Sarcastr0]

Nah, I think that's you lot.

Gays are all pedophiles is a well known playbook, and it's not from the gay rights advocates.

Same play, different target, same group.

[Malika the Maiz]

I agree there are some sports it might not matter, but it’s the ones that it does that are problematic.

Maybe something like a league just for trans people or classes based on something like testosterone levels?

[Don Nico]

Thank you for giving Sarc an example of "rational."

[TwelveInchPianist]

" classes based on something like testosterone levels?"

You mean you have to have irreparable surgery in order to have dignity?

[Brett Bellmore]

How about Y chromosome levels?

[Martinned]

What does that have to do with anything? And since when is that something that anybody checks?

[David Nieporent]

Maybe something like a league just for trans people or classes based on something like testosterone levels?

Those sound like ideas that work better on paper than in real life, and aren't really going to satisfy people.

Obviously there already can be leagues for trans people, but that's not satisfactory to trans activists who want inclusion in mainstream sport. (Plus, there aren't enough trans athletes for that.)

As for testosterone levels, besides being a PITA to administer for lower levels of sport, I'm not really sure what the conception is. Biological men of a certain t level have to compete in men's sports rather than women's? Again, that's not going to satisfy people.

[TwelveInchPianist]

" that's not satisfactory to trans activists who want inclusion in mainstream sport."

To be clear, what they want it to have their ideation affirmed. They want the rest of the world to see them as girls, but they're not.

[Commenter_XY]

Why not keep this simple?

Men compete with men. Women compete with women. Never the twain shall be confused.

[Martinned]

It sounds like you're confused already.

[Don Nico]

Most of the thorny issues would disappear if there were just to categories: Women's for biological women at birth and Open for anyone of any gender identity.
It's the "pick on someone your own size" principle.

[bye]

Trans are generally perverted folk. This is in the literature.

44% of trans-identified individuals report ‘serious psychological distress,' one-third experienced homelessness

But notice what I'm not saying: I am not assessing blame, I am not counseling any action in particular, I am not saying that a trans person is or is not really trans --- I am saying they are one of the sickest social cohorts we know of.

You speak of problems but you are just covering your asss. They don't create problems. They are problems. Not one person I know who would let Dylan Mulvaney within a mile of their children

[Don Nico]

It is not fair to pick on perverts. You have your own and I have mine, just like everyone else.

[Josh R]

On sports, I concur with the conclusion to leave the government out of it (no requirement to include or exclude trans women). The governing bodies can tradeoff the harm done to trans women versus the harm done to the integrity of women's sports. In some cases, out right bans should apply. In others outright inclusion. And in yet others, testosterone reduction might suffice for inclusion.

On shared private areas, my rule would be 1) where open nudity occurs, only post-op trans people can be included and 2) where open nudity does not occur (e.g., a private stall in a sex-segregated bathroom), trans people should be included. In the former case, the trans person should be accommodated with private facilities rather than being required to use the facility corresponding to their sex.

[Noscitur a sociis]

On sports, I concur with the conclusion to leave the government out of it (no requirement to include or exclude trans women).

Do you feel the same way about leaving the government out of women’s sports altogether? If not, why?

[Josh R]

At first blush, I think it is OK for the government to require women access to sports to alleviate a harm. Unlike with trans women being included in women's sports, there isn't a tradeoff between competing harms.

[bye]

But government has no first warrant to even get their nose in it.
And you can't say that there is something perverted or discriminatory in having biological females in female sports.

There is no harm and sports were not meant to be a way to alleviate harm. What is wrong with you ???

[Don Nico]

Why?
1) Because people will litigate real and imagined torts.
2) Because the Congress has enacted civil rights laws.
So, at some level the government is always as involved.

[Martinned]

the harm done to the integrity of women's sports

Which harm might that be?

There are different answers possible for this question, and they have different implications for who should and should not be able to compete in women's sports.

[Mr. Bumble]

"...and they have different implications for who should and should not be able to compete in women's sports."
You mean like women!

[Martinned]

Given that you don't seem to know what a woman is, that doesn't seem to resolve the issue.

[Mr. Bumble]

You're confusing me with PBJ. I know very much what a women is you tosspot wanker.
(they're the one's that can get knocked up)

[Martinned]

So my mother isn't a woman? That will be news to her.

[Josh R]

The harm done to cis women who can't compete with trans women n many sports.

[Martinned]

Most of those cis women also can't compete with most other cis women. No amount of training would allow my sister to score in the WNBA or beat Katie Ledecky at swimming. So what do you propose to do about that?

[Mr. Bumble]

Handicap as they do in horse racing.

[Martinned]

If that's an acceptable solution to you, why wouldn't it work for any advantage that trans women may or may not have?

[Josh R]

Only elite women can score in the WNBA and your sister is not elite. In contrast, there are scads of non-elite men who can score in the WNBA because of a systemic advantage associated with being male.

Denying a group of people access because of an inherent advantage of being a member of the group is far different than denying an individual access because of one's individual talents. Only the former is needed to keep the "W" in WNBA.

[Martinned]

If a man was able to score in the WNBA, he'd be an "elite" WNBA player by definition under your framework. There's nothing systemic about that, because I'm over 6ft tall and I don't fancy my chances of scoring in the WNBA either.

The advantages you're talking about aren't systemic, they are "being tall" and "being good at sports". If those are advantages we're meant to control for, explain to me why we don't yank Caitlin Clark's eligibility too.

[Josh R]

If the advantages of men over women are not systemic, why aren't men allowed in the WNBA?

[Martinned]

That was basically the question I started with. I think the answer is that women are a culturally relevant group. (See also: women's chess.) Back when everyone was still unapologetically racist, black people were also a culturally relevant group who had their own baseball league (and other sports leagues). None of that was every about systemic differences between groups, at least not in any carefully reasoned way.

If that's your diagnosis, the conclusion is that an individual should be able to play women's sports if they are a woman for cultural purposes, i.e. if society treats them as a woman. We don't block people from the WNBA for being too tall.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"how trans people can have their dignity respected"

On what planet does respecting someone's dignity require others to falsely affirm that they're something they are not?

[not guilty]

"On what planet does respecting someone's dignity require others to falsely affirm that they're something they are not?"

Are you positing that transgender persons are in fact not transgender, Twelveinchpeckerchecker?

[TwelveInchPianist]

I am positing that men with gender dysphoria aren't women.

[Mr. Bumble]

...and never will be, no matter how they're sliced and diced and pumped up with female hormones.

[not guilty]

I didn't ask about gender dysphoria, which is different from gender identity. The two may or may not coincide.

Are you claiming that transgender persons (with or without gender dysphoria) are in fact cisgender persons?

[TwelveInchPianist]

I am asserting that men are not women, and human dignity doesn't require people to claim that they are. Do you have a counter-argument?

[Josh R]

You are assuming your conclusion that "woman" refers to sex rather than gender identity.

[Commenter_XY]

You're making the case that it is a mental illness, not biology.

[Josh R]

You're making the case that it is a mental illness, not biology.

What is the "it" you refer to?

[TwelveInchPianist]

No I'm not.

[Josh R]

I am positing that men with gender dysphoria aren't women.

In this sentence your use of both "men" and "women" refer to sex. What if instead in this sentence, "men" refers to sex but "women" refers to gender identity?

[TwelveInchPianist]

I use men and women to refer to sex, I don't find gender identity to be a useful concept.

There's a reason transgender people don't like to be referred to as "men who identify as women" or even "biological males who identify as women."

[Josh R]

I don't find gender identity to be a useful concept

That 's a good example of what Malika said about "a lot of commenters here aren’t interested in respecting the dignity of trans persons." You were supposed to comment in Malika's other post below. This part was for people who respect the dignity of trans persons.

[TwelveInchPianist]

As I said upthread, and no one has been able to answer, respecting the dignity of trans person doesn't require affirming that they are something that they are not.

[Don Nico]

Look, the fact that a person has a mental illness of any sort is no reason not to respect their dignity.
However, I am afraid the the "respect my dignity" chant is actually just another way of saying "I want my way, so buzz off."

[Josh R]

Respecting the dignity of a trans person requires acknowledging that gender identity is a real trait and thus being trans is not a mental illness (the mental illness is gender dysphoria).

Of course you are entitled to your opinions that gender identity doesn't exist and that the trans person is delusional, but Malika asked for those opinions to go in the other post. She wanted this post to focus on the arguments for or against trans women participating in women's sports assuming you respect the dignity of trans women.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"gender identity is a real trait and thus being trans is not a mental illness"

I'm not sure what you mean by "gender identity" here. I identify as a man because I am one, I have an XY body, dick, balls, etc, and I have always experienced having those traits, as well as being perceived by society as such.

No woman has a remotely similar trait. A trans "man" has the experience of living in an XX body with all the accoutrements.
Whatever you want to call the ideation in her mind where she would feel more comfortable with XY parts, it has nothing in common with the traits that I have that make me a man. There's no reason, logical or dignity-related, to place us in the same category.

Now, a woman may experience some of what a man experiences by taking hormones, changing her appearance, etc. But that doesn't make her a man any more than changing a white person's appearance makes him black.

But the point is that there is no "trait" shared between normal people and people of the opposite sex with gender dysphoria that places them in the same category.

[bye]

Dylan Mulvaney is a sick disturbed psycho . Call him trans but also sick

[bye]

THey don't deserve their dignity respected and nothing says girls have to accede to perverts.
The solution is the same as with gays, expect that the overwhelming majority of people (incl historicaly) have the concept of "perversion" and no accomadation budges that.
THis is a pervert
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSL-f8Jo1otva8jZtRk04j-Ul0QP5Zqxb-jQ&s

[bye]

What dignity? You are born a male and you butcher yourself, adopt a cheesy psycho smile and then demand respect !!!!

I remember all you guys screaming with delight when Biden took these two into the higher realms

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/sam-brinton-comp.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1200

UTTER DISGRACE

[Malika the Maiz]

As said, for those that don’t, here you go: trans people are sick and bad and need to be cured and/or marginalized. Go nuts!

[Poxigah146]

No one ever said they're bad. We did say they're sick, and that their delusions should not be humored by society.

[hobie]

So far in the past year, Trump has labeled as mentally ill and delusional: Kamala, Joe, the congressional librarian, the National Archivist, the lady attendant at Arlington that wouldn't let Trump campaign amongst the graves...basically anyone that has tried to stop him breaking the law.

So comes now the rubes who, like Hitler did the Jews, take a vulnerable, politically advantageous group, and label them as crazy and discriminate against them and make laws against them. And this is any way different from the antisemitism that you rubes suddenly cannot abide? Your 'concerns' and labels seem capricious and hollow and overly used

[Don Nico]

I'll agree with you that Ms. Harris is not mentally ill. She is functionally stupid, but that is a different diagnosis.

[bye]

oops, another logic error.
It doesn't follow at all that if you are someone who tried to stop him from breaking the law that you thereby can't be mentally ill or delusional

So Trump criticized the trans pervert that didn't sound the tornado alarm in St Louis. He/she is a full on pervert psycho

This is the MAN known as St. Louis City Emergency Management Agency commissioner, Sarah Russell

Would you let your children near this man ?
https://dallasexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Sarah-Russell-Commissioner-of-the-St.-Louis-City-Emergency-Management-Agency-CEMA-Image-by-Sarah-RussellLinkedIn-1000x563.jpg

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/66f18d2d65e9d05b04bc4a5e/676d736a220a0548293b0ee9_Sarah%20Russell.jpeg

[Joe_dallas]

Poxigah146 1 hour ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
"No one ever said they're bad. We did say they're sick, and that their delusions should not be humored by society."

Agreed
The activists are the ones accusing the sane people who are trying to put an end to the evil perpetrated on those suffering the mental illness as the ones hating on the trans. In reality, Its the adults embracing the evil that hate the trans - permanently preventing any chance for the afflicted to return to normalcy.

[Malika the Maiz]

Calling people insane is a common form of bigotry. As I noted below we indulge and treat with respect people with all kinds of mental issues.

[Joe_dallas]

Malika the Maiz 36 minutes ago
"Calling people insane is a common form of bigotry. "

Again - you are making shit up -
Neither I nor anyone else made that statement or even implied such.

that is about the 10th time today you just made shit up.

[bye]

NOT if they are insane. Otherwise you are just plain lying
IN-Sane means not sane and you can't tell me everyone is sane.

HOw about this woman
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c057l60y1r3o
Texas mother accused of helping son plan school shooting
15 May 2025

Check her out and get back to me

[Frank Drackman]

Always have to make it about yourself, don't you?

[Malika the Maiz]

This undercuts your rent routine, sad writer of the Frank Fakeman persona. Maybe write the character with some self-awareness?

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, yeah. They are sick, and if they could be cured that would be nice. And a fair number of bad men pretend to be "trans" to get into places they shouldn't be, for reasons of varying awfulness.

Like I said, all the solutions involve "dumping on" trans people, as construed by them and their allies, because the essence of the problem is that they're demanding that everybody else humor their delusions and/or lies.

[Sarcastr0]

You think they should be denied federal policymaking jobs not for any actual evidence of inability to perform said job, just your own prejudice.

I don't care how you rationalize it, that's Jim Crow level bigotry.

[Joe_dallas]

Are trying to claim individuals suffering a mental illness are not functionally impaired, at least partially?

Are you that detached from any comprehension of reality?

How much evidence do you need?

[Malika the Maiz]

Some would say a person who thinks they are an expert in anything but often can’t write basic sentences and got caught as a sock-puppet here might be mentally impaired.

But more importantly, do you think, say, people that are suffering from Aspergers and taking ketamine for clinical depression should hold important government jobs?

[Joe_dallas]

Who brought up Aspergers?

You simply made shit up so you can debate a topic with yourself - nice argument between Malika and Maiz

[Malika the Maiz]

I’m talking about Musk, ya goof.

[Joe_dallas]

malika - continue your argument with maiz

[Estragon]

This is a funny response from a sock-puppeteer IMO

[Joe_dallas]

let me know he makes an intelligent comment

[Estragon]

LOL!

[Don Nico]

Where did you read that in Brett's comment. You do it so frequently. Just make shit up and then criticize your hallucination.
Are you really an AI chatbot?

[Malika the Maiz]

Did you mean to post that to my reply to Brett below?

[Don Nico]

No, it was a reply to Sarc.
The order in which posts get posted makes for problems on occasion.

[bye]

The only honest thing you said is "you don't care"
Here's 2 hugely qualified (by your standards) folks who should not be in federal jobs, NEVER

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0kF1wa772IJ9fAVpAibHLRXIPnXhQtSgcTA&s

[bye]

Those people that died in the STL tornado, they died because this sick twisted man/woman did not do His/her job. I must attribute that to being a sick and self-centered lazy slackard

THis is Sarah Russell, trans
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZm2T6McsKy6pQt3HU9k2whUrZw51EGAlYIw&s

CEMA Commissioner Sarah Russell, who goes by "They/Them" pronouns, is on paid leave after she failed to activate the St. Louis tornado sirens for the storm that five people died in.

https://img.hoodline.com/2025/5/st-louis-cema-head-placed-on-leave-amid-probe-into-tornado-siren-failure-and-death-threats-1.webp?max-h=442&w=760&fit=crop&crop=faces,center

[Malika the Maiz]

1. It’s always interesting to see someone who admits to Aspergers talk about people being sick. A lot of people think people with that “sickness” are incurable, social misfits that make everyone around them uncomfortable. You’d think you’d have some empathy for trans people.

2. We “humor” people all the time. People try to ignore the weird or cold behavior of autistic people, they treat an adopted kid as the actual child of their adopted parents, we call people born Piyush “Bobby” or someone named “ Willard” Mitt. This is not to speak of conspiracy theorists (a club you’re a member of) that have so many delusions.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"We “humor” people all the time."

And we decline to humor people all the time. So what?

We humor some people, so we should humor everyone? Terrible argument.

[Frank Drackman]

Cutting off a man’s Dick and Balls and prescribing him Estrogen doesn’t make him a woman, he’s just a man with his Dick and Balls cut off and Bitch Tits

[Malika the Maiz]

Cutting off a man’s Dick and Balls and prescribing him Estrogen doesn’t make him a woman, he’s just the father of the sad weirdo that performs the Frank Fakeman persona.

[Swede425]

I don't know that they can be "cured".
I do know that their mental illness shouldn't be catered to.
Doing so was never going to be anything other than a disaster and, in fact, has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.
Forcing others to play pretend because of the their feelings was stupid from the get-go.
Reasonable, intelligent people understood this from the beginning.
But here we are.

[not guilty]

I am not a mental health professional, so I am not qualified to diagnose mental illness. That having been said, I do wonder whether the peckercheckers' obsession with other people's genitalia evinces mental illness on their part.

[TwelveInchPianist]

So women who want to play women's sports are crazy?

That's right up there with your women who gain weight as they age are liars take.

[Noscitur a sociis]

As opposed to an obsession with the size of female attorneys’ breasts?

[bye]

I would go further and wonder about people who post often about things like that --- YES : YOU !!!!!

[Krayt]

Problems with trans in sports aren't because "men pretend to be women". It's because of the physical nature vs. asserting social equivalence propriety takes precidence over the physical.

Many who support trans rights, as an aspect of freedom, feel womens' sports are a bridge too far.

[Swede425]

LOL!
There is no such thing as a "bridge too far" with that crowd.
Own an LGBQTXYZABCBBQ+ flag? It was outdated the week after you got it. And always will be.

[bye]

But it is a bridge too far because they are men who pretend to be women. No women's sports if you are not REALLY A WOMAN

YOu are getting into the habit of writing turgid convoluted "mock-intellectual" crap

[Poxigah146]

People ask why conservatives say that Kavanagh and Barrett are disappointments and ultimately liberal judges? SCOTUS denying cert on the "assault weapons ban" and "high capacity" magazine cases today shows why.

[Sarcastr0]

Kind of a boring whinge, but there is a nugget of interesting conversation...
The right has a much more exacting test than the left for when a Justice is Impure.
Ginsberg sided in favor of the death penalty in plenty of opinions.
Breyer, known as more a pragmatist than a zealot, was even more permissive in his reading of the 4A.
Kagan's love of stare decisis puts her in the conservative camp sometimes.

Part of that is probably because the Court's been nominally conservative since Burger was chief, so the stakes are higher when you expect to win and have victory snatched away. By contrast, on the left it just makes a 5-4 loss become 6-3.

But recently this has gotten even more pointed. Scalia would not be tolerated by the MAGA of today.
Unlike the left fringe, MAGA represents the fringe becoming the rug on the right. The left fringe has purity tests aplenty, they just don't matter.

[bye]

You miss the whole point

What of Sotomayor ?
“We have hospitals that are almost at full capacity with people severely ill on ventilators. We have over 100,000 children, which we’ve never had before, in — in serious condition and many on ventilators,” said Sotomayor

But U.S. Department of Health & Human Services says there were about 4,700 children

She is liberal because she lies and is lazy. Let's get to the root

[dwb68]

Snopes and Ocean State (ar15 ban cases) denied.

Kavanaugh respects the denial in Snopes, but calls the decision clearly wrong. Says there is a First Circuit case soon to be before them.

[Poxigah146]

Yes, they're happy to let the states, with the help of the lower courts, abuse the right for years. The 2nd Amendment is a second-class right. Not even really a right, but a privilege.

[wvattorney13]

In the next term or two says Kavanaugh. What is a couple of years when a fundamental right is at stake? Too bad the gun owners were not illegal aliens--then they would get speedy rulings.

[David Nieporent]

If Maryland tried to irreversibly send to a foreign concentration camp anyone who had a disapproved weapon, then the gun owners would get speedy rulings too.

[Sarcastr0]

"Per our daily data tracking public favorability toward China and the United States in 41 countries, China’s global standing has now eclipsed that of the United States. This is a first since our tracking began, and includes many of America’s most important economic and military partners, in a clear blow to U.S. soft power.
...
At the beginning of 2025, 29 out of 41 countries held more favorable views of the United States than China. But as of April 30, only 13 countries favored the United States. And many countries that were staunchly pro-China at the beginning of the year have become even more so.
...
If there is a silver lining for Washington, it’s that America’s global standing has recently begun to rebound, coinciding with the Trump administration’s 90-day reciprocal tariff pause. This suggests that views of the United States remain mutable. But other foreign policy moves besides tariffs that could sustain longer-term harm to America’s reputation remain in play."

https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/us-china-global-standing-competition

Silver lining or no, this feels to me like we're needlessly turning the corner on the American century.

[Bob from Ohio]

Oh dear, our standing is going down!

Nobody who prefers the Chines dictatorship is worth caring about.

[David Nieporent]

Trump: "We're finally respected in the world again."
Bob: "Fuck yeah!"
People who care about the truth: "The U.S. standing in the world is actually dropping rapidly."
Bob: "Who cares?"

[Bob from Ohio]

Except I never said the first thing you attribute to me.

Please tell me why ignorant people who prefer China should be a concern? As bad as you think Trump is, Xi [and the CCP] is 100 times worse. Hate to sound like Somin but foot voting says this poll is just wrong.

Anyways, "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both."

[ducksalad]

Niccolo's ranking:

1. Feared and loved
2. Feared
3. Loved
4. Neither feared nor loved

We're moving into 4, irrelevancy. Not necessarily an entirely bad thing.

[David Nieporent]

Please tell me why ignorant people who prefer China should be a concern?

Because — despite what Trump thinks — having allies matters. How the U.S. is seen around the world affects how strong our alliances are. You may personally not care about Ukraine, but the U.S. was able to construct a coalition against Russia in 2022 because people respect the U.S. and fear Russia.

As bad as you think Trump is, Xi [and the CCP] is 100 times worse. Hate to sound like Somin but foot voting says this poll is just wrong.

The poll is not saying that China is a better place to live than the U.S. That would indeed be wrong.

[ThePublius]

China an ally? Ha, ha.

"Patel sounds alarm as Chinese nationals charged with smuggling 'agroterrorism agent' into US: 'direct threat'
Chinese researchers accused of smuggling 'potential agroterrorism weapon' into US to study at University of Michigan lab"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/patel-chinese-nationals-charged-smuggling-known-agroterrorism-agent-into-us-direct-threat

China is at war with us, and has been for decades.

[Sarcastr0]

1. No, that's not what war looks like.

2. No one was talking about China as a US ally. I guess you just wanted a place to fit in this new story you found browsing FOX News.

3. The anti-China nationalism MAGA is stoking will get us into a real-life war.

4. "two Chinese nationals who were charged Tuesday with allegedly smuggling a "dangerous biological pathogen" into the U.S. to study at the University of Michigan laboratory demonstrates a serious national security threat to America's food supply" doesn't sound like an act of war.

4. "scientific literature classifies as a "potential agroterrorism weapon" is sure is some weaseling, eh? Almost like there's no crime or reg to back up this table-pounding.

5. 'Electronics contained information like loyalty pledges to the CCP' is true for just about every Chinese national. Based on how many of them have become productive US citizens over the decades, it doesn't mean much.

China does a ton of malign things, and vetting to minimize risk is important. But these statements are weaselly as fuck. Smells like like throwing the book at people to get a story, not a story that requires strong measures.

[ThePublius]

?
"David Nieporent 1 day ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Please tell me why ignorant people who prefer China should be a concern?

Because — despite what Trump thinks — having allies matters. "

[Magister]

That's not talking about having China as an ally; the comment gave an example of the US having allies to form a coalition against Russia when it invaded Ukraine. Similarly, it would be good to have allies to support us in opposing China when it does bad stuff.

[David Nieporent]

Thank you for not deliberately misunderstanding the obvious, unlike ThePublius. The entire point of the discussion is the international view of China vs. the U.S., not the relationship between China and the U.S.

[tylertusta]

That article is certainly a take, for sure. I can't help but imagine that Jason McMann was clutching pearls while he dictated this article to an intern as he fretted about how Europe doesn't like us anymore.

I do not say that lightly: any article about this topic that only looks at a five year trend is trying to deliberately obfuscate things.

One need only look back beyond that five-year window to see see that favorability waxes and wanes based upon world events. US 'standing' among the world is not- and has never been- an indicator other than whether foreigners like US policy at the moment.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116350/position-world.aspx

Unfortunately, Gallup's polling pre-2000 is spotty, but the US in the 70's was in a tougher spot with many foreigners, and that was in the middle of the Cold War, where support shifted towards the USSR.

[Sarcastr0]

1. Imaginary ad hominem
2. Accusation of deceptive practices via using a 5-year trend.
2a. Argument is that there's a standard volatility from before 2020 that this doesn't capture.
3. Ipse dixit that standing isn't driven by US policy.
4. Cite to a poll whose last data comes from back in February.

Morning Consult doesn't cite the tariffs, but in them we have a pretty evident driver, and observe the expected effect. Arguing that this is just standard statistical noise needs to grapple with the facts on the ground.

[tylertusta]

Imaginary ad hominem

I made a personal attack, not an ad hominem, An ad hominem is a logical fallacy where instead of attacking the substance of the agrument, it instead attacks the person making the argument.

In this case, I did not base my conclusion off of McMann himself, but rather that he deliberately reduced his data set to achieve his conclusion. That's the substance, not the person.

That I imagined him clutching pearls is an opinion that flows from the conclusion of his slipshod work.

This is an ad hominem: "This article is wrong because it was written by McMann, who is a stinky communist."

This is not: "This article is wrong as historical data shows it is wrong. Also, McMann is a stinky communist."

2. Accusation of deceptive practices via using a 5-year trend.
2a. Argument is that there's a standard volatility from before 2020 that this doesn't capture.

Yes, that this a summary of my argument.

3. Ipse dixit that standing isn't driven by US policy.

You misstated my point 3. I said it was only a reflection of US policy.

Can you guess what happened in the 2000's that would have changed foreigners' approval to the United States as demonstrated in the Gallup polls?

4. Cite to a poll whose last data comes from back in February.

My assertion that historical data from prior to five years ago supports the notion that American standing in the world is not static and changes over time based on what is going on in the world. My supporting data- from Gallup- data demonstrates that prior to five years ago this was the case. That the polling hasn't been updated since February doesn't change the polling from before five years ago, which was my point.

Overall, your points 3 and 4 are a subtle straw man which sought to alter my point 2 and 2a. Not bad, but still disappointing.

I give your effort a 6/10, mostly for the underhanded nature of how you tried to twist things.

[Sarcastr0]

Can you guess what happened in the 2000's that would have changed foreigners' approval to the United States as demonstrated in the Gallup polls?

Wouldn't 9-11 be an outlier event that it'd be good practice to leave out of any kind of baseline analysis?

Your 1 argument is that this is just noise, because our standing has risen and fallen before.
I don't think that's a very good argument, given both the inclusion of China's trend and the evident cause staring us in the face. This doesn't look like noise.

If you want to argue 'there's been causes in the past for our reputation to change, so this doesn't matter' that's a really sanguine take to the point that nothing matters.

[bye]

You idiot that would make The Holocaust an outlier.
IDIOT

[Michael P]

Anecdotes strike Paris again, Muslim victims of Islamophobia presumably the hardest hit.

https://x.com/IsraMum/status/1929098447669359074

[tylertusta]

These must be more of the fiery but mostly peaceful protests that I've heard so much about.

[Hugh]

86 47. Impeach and convict him, but first toss all his quisling Senate lackeys like Joni Ernst out on their electoral butts. 86 47.

[hobie]

We are all going to lose our senate seats eventually

[santamonica811]

heh

[Michael P]

Brexit seems to have succeeded, at least in economic terms: https://x.com/ben_j_todd/status/1929178023942570382

[tylertusta]

Inconceivable!

[grb]

Michael P : "Brexit seems to have succeeded, at least in economic terms"

Two Points :

1. You have to be desperate for ANY sign of Brexit success to find the slightest evidence of it in the linked chart.

2. But those who actually have to live with Brexit are not so eager to be fooled. Per survey after survey, people in UK think Brexit was a massive blunder. The numbers typically run close to 60% calling it a mistake.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I think John Oliver's segment on trans athletes was overall good. It's available on YouTube.

There is simply not a "problem" to worry about in most cases.

In a few cases, professional sports institutions can reasonably determine the question. There are currently male and female sports teams, even with heightened scrutiny on the federal level & multiple states having ERAs with a higher test than that.

The federal government is going in some fashion going to get involved, including with federal funding rules. Title IX was not a mistake as applied to sports. It's a question of degree.

[So private groups won't have total carte blanche. Still, overall, the government probably should tread lightly.]

The Trump Administration and various state governments have shown irrational animus (legally and otherwise) on the question.

[tylertusta]

Thanks for the pointer to John Oliver on this. I'll listen to it later.

The Trump Administration and various state governments have shown irrational animus (legally and otherwise) on the question.

Nothing irrational about it. It's good politics in the demographics that don't watch John Oliver.

You may recall last year's campaign ad from Trump: "Kamala is for they/them, Trump is for you".

[JoeFromtheBronx]

It is "good politics" to have various types of unconstitutional and/or otherwise bad policies. So, that won't settle the question of legality and good policy.

[tylertusta]

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it.

But you cannot deny that however despicable you feel that this policy is, a plurality of the nation voted to elect Trump because of his stance on it.

[Sarcastr0]

A plurality of the nation is not a mandate.

And even if it were, populism does not make unconstitutional policies legit or moral.
You cant hide behind 'it's good politics.'

Well, you can try, but then you're posting like a sociopath.

[tylertusta]

Does your sense of superiority translate into policy outcomes at the Federal level?

What is the conversion rate for exchanging Noble Defeat into something tangible?

As I said, you don't have to like what Trump is doing to acknowledge that it did help land him back into the White House.

[Magister]

Obviously tylertusta has a big head start in the race to the bottom.

[tylertusta]

So, rather than shutting up about transgender stuff for a couple of months, you'd rather just let Trump win?

How does Trump winning advance any of your goals?

[bye]

A plurality of the nation is a mandate or nothing is a mandate by numbers.
And your addiction to abstract nouns that you get to define "populism" just makes you look stupid.

And a sociopath (another self-definition) has no telltale posting pattern.

In Rhetoric class you would be soundly mocked.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I don't know how much the 2024 elections turned on this issue, but I'm not denying it has some political value for Trump.

That wasn't all that mattered when racism was a political winner during Jim Crow & it is not now.

[tylertusta]

I'll ask you what I asked Sarc: What is the value of your sense of superiority, and can it be exchanged for currency at a nominal rate?

Purity may be cold comfort, but in politics it's sometimes better to win than to lose the right way. For years Democrats had to hold their nose on gay marriage until they were in a place to afford to come out of the closet on the issue.

There are other examples of this, too.

One that I'm particularly fond of Woodrow Wilson's "He Kept Us Out Of War" slogan from his 1916 reelection campaign. The war in Europe dominated the 1916 election, with Wilson appealing to isolationists and deliberately keeping down spending on the US military.

Republicans wanted to intervene on behalf of the Entente as the Germans were attacking US merchant shipping and committing atrocities in Belgium. They wanted the US military to be built up so it could fight the Germans.

Six months after Wilson's reelection, the nation declared war on the Central Powers anyways. It turned out that the Republicans were right all along, and Wilson's foot dragging on preparedness kept the US military from being able to make a worthwhile contribution until mid-to-late 1918.

[Sarcastr0]

Saying principles are a good thing for humans to have is not being superior.

Victory justifies the means is no way to be.

That is all.

[tylertusta]

Politics is the art of the possible, not the pure.

Principled nobility may feel noble, but here it inflicted a second Trump administration on us. Democrats need to grow up (again).

And it's not like Democrats had to become anti-trans. All they had to do was shut up about it and not let Biden impose regulations on transgenders in sports.

Democrats know full well how to talk out of both sides of their mouths on an issue, but they chose the dumbest stuff to not use this useful skill on.

[Sarcastr0]

You exclude the middle so you can argue shitty nihilism.

You won’t go to jail for being an awful person, but it might cause some social problems.

[tylertusta]

It's pragmatism, not nihilism.

Tell me, in your opinion, do you think we have more or less social problems than we would have had with a Harris administration instead of Trump?

[Bob from Ohio]

"simply not a "problem" to worry about in most cases. "

Some of the girls who lose to a boy feel differently. There is a cost to object though, so many don't.

[Social Justice is neither]

Be sure to comfort the women who lose out on life changing opportunities or are permanently harmed in service if your virtue signal that it's all worth it, to you...not them, they don't matter.

[bye]

Okay, pure bullshit :"Title IX was not a mistake as applied to sports. It's a question of degree."
BUT YOU ARE EITHER A MAN OR A WOMAN

There can't be a question of degree in the application of law to what has no question of degree.
Is this you committing argument of the Beard fallacy.

Logical Form:

X is one extreme, and Y is another extreme.

There is no definable point where X becomes Y.

Therefore, there is no difference between X and Y

[tylertusta]

Edward Blum argues that the DOJ's use of the False Claims Act can undermine universities' efforts to maintain even surreptitious DEI programs:

The False Claims Act allows private individuals to bring suit on behalf of the U.S. The Justice Department, recognizing that it can’t unearth all discrimination, has expressly invited such suits. The private plaintiffs receive a portion of the penalties or damages won in the lawsuit—and that can mean real money.

There's blood in the water and the DOJ pointed it out.

https://archive.ph/2Dph6

[LexAquilia]

A bipartisan group of more than 130 retired judges filed a brief Friday urging a federal court to drop charges against Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan, saying her arrest undermines "centuries of precedent on judicial immunity."

source

Centuries of precedent on judicial immunity? I don't believe that's true. Is there really centuries of precedent that judges can break the law in their courtrooms?

[Mr. Bumble]

Because judges are special people.

[not guilty]

The proposed amicus brief is here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.111896/gov.uscourts.wied.111896.25.1.pdf

I am unpersuaded that state court judges are absolutely immune from federal criminal prosecution arising out of performance of their judicial duties in the same manner that they are immune from civil liability for damages pursuant to 42 U.S.C. § 1983. While I can understand the defense here raising the issue in order to preserve it for appellate review in the event of a conviction, the claim appears to be foreclosed by existing Supreme Court decisions.

SCOTUS opined in Dennis v. Sparks, 449 U.S. 24, 31 (1980), that "judicial immunity was not designed to insulate the judiciary from all aspects of public accountability. Judges are immune from 1983 damages actions, but they are subject to criminal prosecutions as are other citizens." In O'Shea v. Littleton, 414 U.S. 488, 503 (1974), the Court opined:

Whatever may be the case with respect to civil liability generally, see Pierson v. Ray, 386 U.S. 547 (1967), or civil liability for willful corruption, see Alzua v. Johnson, 231 U.S. 106, 231 U.S. 110-111 (1913); Bradley v. Fisher, 13 Wall. 335, 80 U.S. 347, 80 U.S. 350, 80 U.S. 354 (1872), we have never held that the performance of the duties of judicial, legislative, or executive officers, requires or contemplates the immunization of otherwise criminal deprivations of constitutional rights. Cf. Ex parte Virginia, 100 U.S. 339 (1880). On the contrary, the judicially fashioned doctrine of official immunity does not reach "so far as to immunize criminal conduct proscribed by an Act of Congress. . . ." Gravel v. United States, 408 U.S. 606, 408 U.S. 627 (1972).

[not guilty]

The case involving Judge Dugan does raise issues under the Tenth Amendment and under the fair warning requirement of the Fifth Amendment Due Process clause that should warrant dismissal of the indictment or, in the alternative, judgment of acquittal at the close of proof at trial.

The Tenth Amendment mandates that "[t]he powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'' As the Supreme Court opined in Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898, 919 (1997), "The Framers' experience under the Articles of Confederation had persuaded them that using the States as the instruments of federal governance was both ineffectual and provocative of federal-state conflict." The Court there elaborated:

This separation of the two spheres is one of the Constitution's structural protections of liberty. "Just as the separation and independence of the coordinate branches of the Federal Government serve to prevent the accumulation of excessive power in anyone branch, a healthy balance of power between the States and the Federal Government will reduce the risk of tyranny and abuse from either front." Gregory [v. Ashcroft, 501 U. S. 452, 458 (1991).]

520 U.S. at 921. The Printz Court "made clear that the Federal Government may not compel the States to implement, by legislation or executive action, federal regulatory programs." Id., at 925.

The anti-commandeering doctrine logically extends to state judicial officials as well. The Milwaukee County Circuit Court is an agency of the State of Wisconsin. The court's jurisdiction is conferred by Article VII, Section 8 of the Wisconsin Constitution and is quite broad:

Except as otherwise provided by law, the circuit court shall have original jurisdiction in all matters civil and criminal within this state and such appellate jurisdiction in the circuit as the legislature may prescribe by law. The circuit court may issue all writs necessary in aid of its jurisdiction.

“[A]ny law that commandeers the legislative processes [and agencies] of the States by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal regulatory program is beyond the inherent limitations on federal power within our dual system. [Citations omitted.] In other words, a conclusion that a detainer issued by a federal agency is an order that state and local agencies are compelled to follow, is inconsistent with the anti-commandeering principle of the Tenth Amendment.” Galarza v. Szalczyk, 745 F.3d 634, 643 (3rd Cir. 2014) (alteration in original).

[A Japanese Student]

Anti-commandering doctrine does not apply to state judiciary, at least for judicial acts and ancillary matters. Haaland v. Brackeen, 599 U.S. 255 (2023)

[not guilty]

Thank you for the citation, but I do not read Brackeen to stand for that broad proposition.

Certainly, as the Brackeen Court recognized, state courts are bound by federal law regarding their adjudicative responsibilities. U.S. Const. Art. VI, cl. 2; Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898, 907 (1997). Justice Bear It's opinion of the Court in Brackeen states: "Congress may impose ancillary recordkeeping requirements related to state-court proceedings without violating the Tenth Amendment. Such requirements do not offload the Federal Government’s responsibilities onto the States, nor do they put state legislatures and executives “under the direct control of Congress.” 599 U.S. 255, ___, 143 S.Ct. 1609 (2023).

Judge Dugan was not exercising adjudicative responsibilities or ancillary recordkeeping duties in regard to Eduardo Flores-Ruiz.

[kramartini]

Would appellate review of immunity be pre-trial or post-trial? Trump's was pre-trial...

[not guilty]

A trial court order granting immunity and dismissing the indictment would be appealable as of right by the government pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 3731. An order denying immunity could be appealed by the defendant prior to trial under the "collateral order" doctrine of Cohen v. Beneficial Industrial Loan Corp., 337 U.S. 541 (1949). If the defendant elects not to appeal prior to trial, it could also be appealed posttrial in the event of a conviction.

[not guilty]

The Fifth Amendment provides that "No person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Judge Dugan lacked fair warning that the conduct she is accused of violated the charged criminal statutes. As the amicus brief under discussion here states:

In the instant prosecution, the coercion arises from the alleged exercise by a Wisconsin circuit court judge of matters occurring in and outside her courtroom. The conduct charged in the indictment is alleged to have all taken place in, outside, or near a state courtroom, in courthouse operating at the state’s own expense, for the purpose of administering state cases, and to be carried out by a state judicial officer who was, at the time, administering a proceeding arising under state law. The charged conduct was squarely within a sphere long recognized by courts to be judicial prerogative—in particular, deemed a necessary aspect of judicial administration that preserves access to justice and protects the dignity and decorum of the courthouse.

SCOTUS has recognized that in a state court criminal proceeding “the courtroom and courthouse premises are subject to the control of the court” Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333, 358 (1966). No precedent that I am aware of would have put the judge on notice that her conduct could subject her to federal criminal prosecution.

As Justice Holmes opined in McBoyle v. United States, 283 U.S. 25, 27 (1931), "Although it is not likely that a criminal will carefully consider the text of the law before he murders or steals, it is reasonable that a fair warning should be given to the world, in language that the common world will understand, of what the law intends to do if a certain line is passed. To make the warning fair, so far as possible, the line should be clear."

In another case involving a state court judge charged criminally by the federal government, Justice Souter discussed the constitutional fair warning requirement:

There are three related manifestations of the fair warning requirement. First, the vagueness doctrine bars enforcement of a statute which either forbids or requires the doing of an act in terms so vague that men of common intelligence must necessarily guess at its meaning and differ as to its application. . . . Second, as a sort of junior version of the vagueness doctrine, . . . the canon of strict construction of criminal statutes, or rule of lenity, ensures fair warning by so resolving ambiguity in a criminal statute as to apply it only to conduct clearly covered. . . . Third, although clarity at the requisite level may be supplied by judicial gloss on an otherwise uncertain statute, . . . due process bars courts from applying a novel construction of a criminal statute to conduct that neither the statute nor any prior judicial decision has fairly disclosed to be within its scope[.] . . . In each of these guises, the touchstone is whether the statute, either standing alone or as construed, made it reasonably clear at the relevant time that the defendant's conduct was criminal.

United States v. Lanier, 520 U.S. 259, 266-267 (1997) (citations and internal quotation marks omitted).

[Mr. Bumble]

Seriously?

[Commenter_XY]

NG, appreciated the multi-part post on this. And the callout to Justice Souter (recently deceased).

[bye]

Judge Dugan knew it was wrong, at least.

[not guilty]

bye, what judicial decision(s) gave Judge Dugan fair warning that her conduct violated the charged statutes?

[Brett Bellmore]

The fair notice is that Judge Dugan was attempting to obstruct enforcement of a federal law, and would have known that attempting to obstruct enforcement of a federal law is a crime.

She didn't have to assist in its enforcement in any way, but the fact is, she took affirmative steps to try to prevent its enforcement, and that crossed a line.

[not guilty]

"The fair notice is that Judge Dugan was attempting to obstruct enforcement of a federal law, and would have known that attempting to obstruct enforcement of a federal law is a crime."

Brett, did you read Lanier? Or, as usual, is ipse dixit all you have to offer?

Charging 18 U.S.C. § 1071 is simply unsupported by the facts here. Concealment of the subject of an arrest warrant is insufficient; the crime requires as an essential element concealment "so as to prevent his discovery and arrest." Since federal agents did in fact arrest Eduardo Flores-Ruiz, Judge Dugan is stone cold innocent of the charge alleged in Count One.

Some statutes, standing alone, may provide fair warning of what conduct is criminalized thereby. Here, however, 18 U.S.C. § 1505 is not such a statute. Compare, United States v. Poindexter, 951 F.2d 369, 379 (D.C. Cir. 1991), cert. denied, 506 U.S. 1021 (1992) (later superseded by statute). "[D]ue process bars courts from applying a novel construction of a criminal statute to conduct that neither the statute nor any prior judicial decision has fairly disclosed to be within its scope[.]" Lanier, 520 U.S. at 266. Application of § 1505 to Judge Dugan's conduct alleged in Count Two would offend the fair warning component of the Fifth Amendment Due Process clause.

If you don't have such a prior judicial decision, Brett, man up and say so.

[not guilty]

Still waiting, Brett.

[not guilty]

Still waiting, bye. What judicial decision(s) gave Judge Dugan fair warning that her conduct violated the charged statutes?

If you have none, there is no shame in admitting that.

[bye]

We wouldn't accept this from anybody else, would we.

A judge has a higher responsibility not a lower or equal.
After all they assume this by having 130 of them try to overawe by sheer force of numinous awe ????

[Sarcastr0]

Pause on a buncha tariffs on China extended to August 31.
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/Press/Releases/2025/Federal%20Register%20Notice%20Extending%20Exclusions%2005312025.pdf

TACO.

[ThePublius]

I guess you don't play poker, or bargain much. Trade negotiations are like poker. Sometimes you "see," sometimes you raise, sometimes you bluff, sometimes you fold. There are many hands. The deck gets shuffled. The only important part is how you end up at the end of the night.

Trump is making tremendous positive impacts with his bargaining, and the economy, by several measures, is better than it has been in years, only since he took office; and that's only after 134 days.

There's no "chickening out." That's irrational anti-Trump B.S.

[Sarcastr0]

Trust the Art of the Deal.

Tremendous impacts! Several measures!

This might be the height of cultist posting I’ve seen.

[ThePublius]

"This might be the height of cultist posting I’ve seen."

I could say the exact same thing about your comment. The numbers and the economy don't lie.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Botanical garden at University of Michigan vandalized for Palestine.

Trump can't get higher ed off the public tit fast enough.

[grb]

Odds and ends from the White House clown-show:

1. Trump either believes Joe Biden is a clone copy or is like a pimply-faced child-like troll. Take your pick.

2. He reversed direction on tariff threats another three or four times but - hey - that's what TACOs do!

3. White House & Congressional GOPers were all over the Sunday shows frantically lying their asses off about Medicaid cuts. As if even the most dupish gullible MAGA-types won't notice when they go into effect. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) tried a different tactic, telling her constituents "Well, we all are going to die." when asked about the deep cuts. That didn't seem to work either.

4. RFK Jr released a "MAHA Report" riddled with errors, lies, and AI-generated gibberish. While trying to correct the mess, he added more errors still.

5. The NYT reported Musk's ketamine use is so regular he displays side effects seen with chronic abusers. Our junior-president also took Ecstasy and psychedelic mushrooms. He traveled with a daily medication box that held about 20 pills including ones with the markings of Adderall, according to a photo of the box and people who have seen it. Maybe that explains why every DOGE report was worthless trash, filled with lies, miscounts, and crude errors.

6. Trump told a crowd "We had the greatest election victory, they say, in 129 years…" And it's possible some "they" in Trump's rotted-out worm-ridden atrophied brain said that. People suffering from advanced cognitive decay often believe strange imaginary things are real.

7. Trump withdrew the nomination of Jared Isaacman to lead NASA. Apparently this was a malicious shiv in Musk's back as he was pushed out the door. Now the bulldozing of NASA into rubble can continue apace! Apparently Trump won't be satisfied until the U.S. space program is wreckage equal to his buddy Putin's. Hell, since America is no longer the leader of the Free World, why bother being the leading space program?

8. Before, during, and after WWII, the U.S. benefited from scientists fleeing Europe. But now the shoes on the other foot and countries around the world are spreading their arms to welcome scientists fleeing from us. Trump has gutted scientific research, attacked leading universities, and targeted foreign students for harassment & deportation. After all, given we've abandoned leadership of the Free World and are shutting-down most of our space program, why not destroy US. preeminence in the other sciences as well?

In just a few months, the United States is already well on its way to becoming another banana republic. I hear they typically like grand military parades too....

[Mr. Bumble]

A little late in the day, but thank you for your daily rant.

[grb]

Very much predictable, but thank you for another irrelevant comment.

[Mr. Bumble]

...as relevant as your rants, but you're welcome.

[ducksalad]

On Item 8, someone ought to inform Trump about a program China is now pushing. They're trying hard to claw back young Chinese immigrant scientists and engineers who are working as faculty at US universities by offering them prestigious faculty jobs back there. Where I work we already lost two. I know the MAGAs here think that's double good: get rid of a legal immigrant, and downsize a university at the same time.

But my hope is Trump is thinking at an even lower level, and just instinctively opposes anything China does. He hears they want their scientists back, he instructs Miller and Rubio to take steps to prevent it.

[grb]

It's entirely possible. Rudy Giuliani and his two low-grade thug henchmen, Fruman & Parnas, were regularly in Ukraine well over a year before the '20 election - looking to buy Biden dirt. While in-country, they picked-up a side job from an Ukrainian oligarch tired of U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch's hectoring focus on corruption. He wanted her gone.

And it was easily done. All they had to do was tell DJT that Yovanovitch said meanie things about him. Trump immediately flew into a rage and she was quickly ousted. That's how simple it was to manipulate someone who's both deeply stupid and crippled by emotional insecurity. It's child's play because you're dealing with someone who has the maturity of a small child.

[Brett Bellmore]

7. Trump’s NASA budget cuts and rejection of Jared Isaacman for NASA administrator signal a very bright future for American space

"Both Isaacman’s withdrawal and Trump’s cuts to NASA’s budget however signal a much more fundamental shift that we all should celebrate. NASA — and the government — is simply becoming irrelevant to the future of space exploration."

[Martinned]

The biggest peacetime self-inflicted wound in a country's ability to conduct scientific research since 1930s Germany and the collapse of the Soviet-Union.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, I tend to agree with him: Space is migrating from being a government activity to being a private sector activity that the government sometimes does, too. And that's a good thing, because when space was dominated by government, if politicians lost interest, it stagnated. And all sorts of critical design decisions were being made for political, not technical reasons, as we saw with the Shuttle.

With primarily private sector space, the conquest of space will continue even if our political class lose interest.

[Martinned]

Sure, because the private sector is famously good at fundamental research, an activity that doesn't involve any externalities whatsoever.

With primarily private sector space, the conquest of space will continue even if our political class lose interest.

So Trump is the solution for the problem of Trump?

[Sarcastr0]

Libertarian-brained.

This is petty revenge and we are nowhere near to a self organizing market in space.

And if course all the basic research will be gone.

Celebrating the feast we are making of our seed corn is beyond ignorant; it’s utopian.

[Brett Bellmore]

You expect libertarians to reason on a basis of libertarianism being wrong?

"This is petty revenge and we are nowhere near to a self organizing market in space."

You are way behind the times on what's going on with space.

[Sarcastr0]

I expect you to live in the real world.

Foolish, I know.

[bye]

On flouride in water , both sides are wrong.
There is the medical experience known as Hormesis

There is a new theory of how toxins work called hormesis, which says that a toxin is a compound which is bad for you in excess but may well often be good for you in very small quantities, because it may well stimulate some defensive mechanism in the cells

In this week’s episode of Emily Unleashed, Dr. Edward Calabrese discusses his research on hormesis and the flawed origins of the linear no-threshold (LNT) model, which has shaped regulatory policies on radiation, chemical exposure, and cancer risk for decades. The LNT model assumes that even the smallest doses of radiation or carcinogens can cause harm, with no safe level of exposure. Dr. Calabrese argues that this model is based on a flawed understanding of biology, particularly the failure to consider the body’s ability to repair damage from low-dose exposures.

[ducksalad]

but may well often be good for you

Or in some cases even necessary for good health.

You'd think the LNT model would've been immediately discredited by simple everyday examples like plain water or salt, which both have a minimum required amount and a fatal dose.

[bye]

well it's most enlightening application is that some poisons are beneficial in minute doses. POISONS

The term hormesis refers to a fascinating phenomenon: a favorable biological reaction to low doses of chemical toxins, radiation, or some other form of stress. It was first scientifically noted by German pharmacologist Hugo Schulz in 1887, who found that disinfectants – which, in large doses, kill yeast – actually stimulate yeast growth when administered in small doses.

[SRG2]

It's not new. And it is evident with, e.g. Vitamin A, cruciferous vegetables, potassium, etc. LNT is an example of what I have called the monotonic fallacy.

[bye]

But the point was being made in terms of beneficial poisons.

[Brett Bellmore]

We'd actually had a long term low dose radiation study going on, that was about to wrap up and publish it's findings during the Obama administration. Word is that they were going to conclusively confirm that radiation was subject to hormesis, and that the radiation exposure standards driving nuclear regulations were totally irrational, maybe even harmful.

He killed the study just in time to keep the report from being issued.

Inconvenient Low Dose Radiation Science Axed Under Obama Administration

[Sarcastr0]

I don't see anything about "just in time to keep the report from being issued."

Funding decisions often get rid of good works. If Congress supported it, and there was a paper being held up, it could have just appropriated Congressionally directed funds to go to that. Or if it's investigation found anything, it could have acted.

This also seems odd from someone so sanguine about Trump's cuts to basic research.

Research programs I like get killed every year.

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, but then you look at the guy who got fired because, when Congressmen asked him about the results of the research, he had the gall to answer them. THAT is results suppression, not saving money.

[apedad]

Gee, if Congress only had a way to gather info independently of the Executive....

[Sarcastr0]

Not your original focus, which was on the timing.

That story blew up so here is another one.

No that is not results suppression.
You think that was the one way to get research results out there?
It looks like infighting.

You want to believe so you do. Indistinguishable from the cars that run on water dispersed by the auto industry nuts.

[Brett Bellmore]

That story didn't blow up. In fact, they did shut it down just before the report was to be issued, and then fired the guy for answering question about his work.

Yes, that's suppression.

[Sarcastr0]

You haven’t established this. And when called on this you switched to new goalposts.

Now you are just pose dixiting.

[ThePublius]

"Now you are just pose dixiting."

Google AI:

""Pose dixiting" is not a recognized English phrase. It seems to be a misunderstanding or a misspelling. "Pose" refers to assuming a particular attitude or stance, often for an artistic purpose or to impress others. "Dixiting" is not a standard word and likely a typo. It's possible you meant to say "dixie-ing," which would imply a southern American accent or way of speaking, or "dixie-ting," which doesn't appear to have a known meaning."

[Mr. Bumble]

It is because he is a douche.
someone who is more than a jerk, tends to think he's top notch, does stuff that is pretty brainless, thinks he is so much better than he really is, and is normally pretty good at ticking people off in an immature way.

[Magister]

While I would like Sarcastr0 to post more carefully to avoid confusing typos, this isn't hard to understand; "ipse" almost certainly got auto-corrected to "pose" (although Sarcastr0 might have originally typed "opse"; in that case, "oopsie dixiting" would have been a more amusing if less likely auto-correction).

[grb]

From the quote : " ...shift that we all should celebrate."

Let's take one example : The Nancy Roman Space Telescope was intended to be the third premium space observatory after the Hubble & Webb telescope. Trump proposes killing the project even though Nancy Roman is 95% finished and waiting on a ride to space. The project is headed out of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland which is where the agency's Climate research occurs. Space experts believe the space telescope was just collateral damage from Trump's desire to sabotage Goddard.

After all, Trump's budget kills off missions active in space right now, including two Orbiting Carbon Observatories, one a standalone spacecraft & the other mounted on ISS. Both missions carry a spectrometer that spies on wavelengths of light absorbed by carbon dioxide molecules, providing an ability to map atmospheric carbon abundance around the planet.

The budget also ends Earth-facing instruments on the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which monitors space weather and records snapshots of the planet’s surface. It kills the space station’s Sage III instrument, which measures ozone, water vapor, and other gases in the atmosphere. It terminates the Terra, Aqua, and Aura satellites, each of which has operated for more than 2 decades, providing unprecedented insight into Earth’s climate.

Of course, Trump's budget also ends the Juno mission orbiting Jupiter. It ends New Horizons, which imaged Pluto and is now entering the Kuiper belt. It terminates OSIRIS-APEX mission, which reuses the spacecraft that returned asteroid samples to Earth to visit the asteroid Apophis. And it kills off several spacecraft orbiting Mars now, including Mars Odyssey and Maven, and pulls the agency’s funding for Mars Express, another orbiter operated by the European Space Agency.

The plan also kills nearly every major science mission the agency has yet to build. It ends development of the Atmosphere Observing System, a series of satellites meant to study the formation of clouds and storms. It terminates the Surface Biology and Geology mission, which divides reflected light into 400 wavelength channels across the visible and infrared. While these measurements are used to study methane & carbon dioxide emissions, they can also be used to prospect for critical minerals and track forest and farm health. And it kills the two planned satellites for Venus. So there's nothing to "celebrate" here. Nobody except NASA can conduct this scale of research. If NASA is "irrelevant" to Trump, Brett, or MAGAS-types looking to put eggheads in their place, that’s true for the science too.

[grb]

(the comments program is still moving responses about in a squirrely fashion)