The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Potential Deportee Mohsen Madawi: I Like to Kill Jews [Allegation]
Whatever one thinks of the relevant legal and constitutional issues regarding the Trump administration's campaign to revoke visas from and deport students it deems antisemitic and supportive of terrorism, one should be clear on exactly what views and backgrounds some of these people have. You often won't find out from mainstream media sources.
A case in point is Columbia [edit: undergrad]* student Mohsen Madawi, who won a habeas petition yesterday. Judge Geoffrey Crawford bought the portrayal of Madawi's as a peace-loving conciliator hook, line, and sinker. This despite a rather significant detail buried in the opinion:
In its response, the Government directs the court's attention to an incident in summer 2015 when a gun shop owner told Windsor, Vermont police officers that Mr. Mahdawi had visited his store twice, expressing an interest in learning more about firearms and buying a sniper rifle and an automatic weapon and that he "had considerable firearm experience and used to build modified 9mm submachine guns to kill Jews while he was in Palestine." (Doc. 42-2.) The store owner stated that Mr. Mahdawi took photos of the store and its merchandise. (Id.) The store owner gave the police the name of a fellow gun enthusiast who stated that he had a similar conversation with Mr. Mahdawi at the "Precision Museum" in Windsor where the enthusiast served as a volunteer tour leader. During that conversation, Mr. Mahdawi allegedly told the gun enthusiast, "I like to kill Jews." (Id.)
Mahdawi denies the allegation, and his lawyers told the court that the FBI agent who investigated "was satisfied with his explanation and closed the investigation." The government acknowledged that the investigation ended without charges, but it was not "closed" in any official way.
Judge Crawford concludes:
The court has considered the allegations made by the gunsmith in 2015. If true, they are highly damaging to Mr. Mahdawi's chances of release and of having any future in the United States at all. In 2015, the FBI conducted a thorough investigation of the allegations and found no basis to act. Had the statements attributed to Mr. Mahdawi been true, they would have resulted in some official response. In a case of the dog that did not bark, the FBI concluded its investigation without taking action. That decision gives rise to a reasonable inference that the agency charged with the protection of the public from crime found no basis for proceeding against Mr. Mahdawi in any venue.
I don't know why the FBI did not refer Mahdawi's case to ICE, especially given the background of 9/11 in which suspicious statements by students who turned out to be hijackers were ignored, but I do know why the FBI didn't charge him criminally; even if the FBI had found the allegations to be 100% true, it's not a crime in the US to have participated in criminal activity in Israel. Nor is it a crime to muse about how one likes to kill Jews. So Judge Crawford has no basis for suggesting that the FBI's failure to charge Mahdawi amounts to a finding that the incidents never happened. (As an aside, my friend Ilya Somin seems to think that musing about killing Jews at a gun shop shouldn't make an alien deportable or even ineligible for an initial visa so long as the statement is deemed protected by the First Amendment for citizens. I think that's nuts.)
To my utter lack of surprise, the story on the case in the New York Times today makes no mention of Mahdawi's apparent history of wanting to kill Jews. The Times also gave Mahdawi a laudatory profile a while back, with the headline, "He Wanted Peace in the Middle East. ICE Wants to Deport Him." No mention that he wrote a poem circulated on Facebook in 2013 celebrating a terrorist responsible for the notorious Coastal massacre in Israel in 1978, which left 38 Israelis dead, including many children.
More recently, here he is on 60 Minutes, while stating he is not "justifying" Hamas's 10/7 massacre, he also notably declines an open invitation to criticize it, stating that he can empathize with the sentiments that in his view led to it: "To empathize is to understand the root cause and to not look at any event or situation in a vacuum. This is for me the path moving forward." Call me crazy, but I'm thinking that someone who is really the peace-loving humanitarian portrayed by the Times wouldn't hesitate to condemn the massacre, torture, rape, and kidnapping of thousands of innocents by a terrorist theocracy. I might especially be inclined to do so if I had been previously investigated by the FBI for talking about killing Jews while perusing weapons in a gun store.
And here he is at Columbia in November 2023, leading chants of "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free." I listened to the whole speech so you don't have to, and it also includes a couple of subtle antisemitic allusions. He tells his audience that their voices are more important that the "money" that Columbia is paying attention to. I would let that one pass, except that he later says that he and his audience are in "the belly of the beast, the Big Apple" but won't be silenced. Why is New York City the Belly of the Beast? Who is trying to silence them with their money? I think we know.
Mahdawi should have been deported in 2015, assuming the statements of the gun store owner were deemed credible. And for these purposes, talking about being involved in killing Jews and enjoying killing Jews is quite sufficient to me to justify deporting him now. As for the habeas petition, he doesn't strike me as an immediate threat nor as much of a flight risk, so I'm not sure why he was arrested to begin with, as opposed to just receiving notice that his lawful status was revoked.
- *Added: Contrary to my original post stating that he is a grad student, Mahdawi is an 34 year old undergraduate student at Columbia's School of General Studies. This is a program for "nontraditional," often foreign, students who generally would not have the credentials to get into Columbia College. This raises some interesting questions. He's been here since 2015 but is still pursuing an undergraduate degree? Even though he already has a Bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering from Birzeit University in the West Bank, and previously studied at Lehigh University? According to the Judge Crawford's decision, his permanent address is in Vermont. But he's pursuing a degree at Columbia in New York City? He was married to a US citizen for several years, but now is divorced. If he has employment, the judge didn't mention it in discussing why he's not a flight risk. How is he sustaining himself? Judge Crawford didn't seem to be interested in these questions, but they are certainly worth asking.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Lest we forget:
"Never again!".
Amen!
Longtobefree, have your forgotten the MAGA cult modification to that slogan?
More on his background.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1913184390877790477.html
The United States can raise this issue in further proceedings.
And the administration’s lawyers might want to take a different approach in the future. Instead of pressing the President’s absolute right to make decisions and emphasizing and doubling down on the speech aspects, as has been done up to this point, they might want to make a more mundane case and back it with greater preparation and evodence. For example, they could bring in the FBI agents who investigated and have them testify about what they found and why they didn’t bring charges.
And the government might want to emphasize that while committing terrorism in a foreign country is not a crime in the United States, it is most certainly not protected by the First Anendment, and it implicates foreign policy in a mundane, conventional way.
The administration here might in general want to focus on making a boring, mundane case within existing law rather than trying to make a splash arguing for controversial extensions to the law.
It also might want to improve its communications by emphasizing that it is attempting to deport Mahdawi not for his speech but strictly for his conduct.
I would like to mention one point in Mr. Mahdawi’s favor. The FBI’s actions were not limited to charging him with a crime. as Professor Bernstein notes could instead have contacted ICE to deny him a green card or attempt to deport him. But they didn’t. Why didn’t they?
It is at least plausible that they didn’t do anything because they didnmt find the gun shop owner’s allegations credible. Perhaps they had reasons for this. (This might explain why the government hasn’t had the FBI agents file an affidavit, as they might say this.) So this is not an open and shut case. Because as a green card holder Mr. Mahdawi gets a full judicial hearing on the government’s claims, Mr. Mahdawi might still win.
Yeah, but that would be hard work, something to which the Bondi Justice Department appears notably adverse. Have they presented a single well-prepared case yet?
The level of competence shown so far is not inspiring. Reliance on the Secretary of State's inherent powers would traditionally be a strong basis for the case, but it requires the judiciary to trust that the administration is trustworthy, and they haven't done a great job at that, to say the least.
That would require the judiciary not being partisan hacks and, yeah, they've shown they're exactly that in spades.
I don't think it's incompetence--the Administration is looking to put the judiciary in its place. Trump remembers what Chutkan did, what Sullivan did etc. etc. He also remembers the judge jamming him on removal etc. etc.
He's thumbing his nose at the judiciary, and it's deliberate.
Well that’s not a great strategy for getting the benefit of the doubt from the judicial branch, now, is it?
Oh, I think it is. Remember the expression, don't wrestle in the mud with a pig: "You'll get muddy, and the pig loves it." Well, there is a ton of law that says that the government gets certain litigation benefits. You gonna throw that away because the Executive, having made a mistake, sticks to its guns and refuses to correct the mistake because, legally, it does not have to. Who is being lawless then?
The administration is. They deported someone mistakenly without the proper due process.
That’s some pretty heavy stuff. Federal law enforcement, forced deportation, mistaken and without due process. You’d think that kind of thing might concern anyone who calls themselves a libertarian.
No they didn't. He had due process--he was deportable, just not to El Salvador. This whole thing would be solved (if we could trust that Judge Xinis would follow the rules) if Bukele sends him two feet across the border into Guatemala.
“The United States acknowl-
edges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding
order forbidding his removal to El Salvador, and that the
removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.”
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf
So what? No one disputes that. The issue is whether the government has to bring him back.
You disputed that he had been removed illegally. Again, the federal government forcibly removing someone from the country illegally should be concerning to anyone.
I've never disputed that the deportation to El Salvador was illegal .
"So what? No one disputes that. The issue is whether the government has to bring him back."
Uh, a unanimous Supreme Court has opined that "The [District Court] order properly requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador." Noem v. Abrego Garcia, 604 U. S. ____ (2025), https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf
President Trump has said to an ABC reporter that he can do that, but simply doesn't want to:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/29/us/politics/trump-abrego-garcia-deported.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20250430&instance_id=153596&nl=from-the-times®i_id=59209117&segment_id=197023&user_id=86ac9094018f7140c62a54a4e93c075f
SCOTUS deliberately used the word “facilitate” because they cannot “order” the Executive to do that. It may trigger a constitutional crisis because that order could be invalid coming from the Judiciary. The wording was to avoid that.
Isn't he the one they ordered not returned to Guatemala despite being from El Salvador? Family in Guatemala or the like.
He didn't get it anyway. What's he got to lose?
Usually, if you're in a hole, the best advice is to stop digging.
"The administration here might in general want to focus on making a boring, mundane case within existing law rather than trying to make a splash arguing for controversial extensions to the law."
I believe what's going on here is that, while they may think they can make a mundane case within existing law for deporting every single individual they want to deport, (They're probably wrong there!) there are so freaking many people in need of deportation that if they do that, they'll still be doing it 20 years from now. (And they're probably right about THAT.)
So that a policy of doing as you say amounts to, for most of the people here illegally, (Or who just shouldn't be here, even if they did get here legally.) a policy of letting them stay.
What really ought to happen is for Congress to enact new legislation that,
1. Streamlines the deportation process.
and,
2. Properly funds the process.
But Congress is proving to be an utter waste of skin. Here are the five, count 'em, five, laws they've enacted so far. They're averaging about one law a month.
I'm extremely unhappy with the manner in which Trump is proceeding to carry out his campaign promises, but at least he IS proceeding!
They're marching right towards a bloody midterm election, and I wonder if the leadership don't understand and want that. Being in the minority gets you almost as much graft, but the workload is much smaller.
100%. The process is biased in favor of immigration, as the procedure to get someone removed is 100 times more difficult than it is for them to come illegally, claim asylum, and be released into the U.S.
Right.
The requirements to illegally enter the United States and get tons of benefits is zero, whereas to deport these interlopers, well that takes a 10 years.
That system fake and gay and broken on purpose.
good point -
Of course the process of deporting that bad ones would have a lot easier if the biden adminstration had not for all practical purposes, invited the massive influx.
For a long time illegals were coming into the country so much faster than they were being deported, that the wait time for a hearing kept going up every year, last I heard was up to about 6 years.
Six years is crazy.
Sure is, maybe 6 minutes tops
Current backlog for a hearing, as of today, is 636 days. You're a lying sack of shit, as always.
Still too freaking long, given that nearly all of the asylum claims are bullshit.
Are we talking about deporting illegal immigrants or green card holders who have publicly supported Hamas? The latter was the topic originally under discussion, and I doubt that there are more than a few dozen such people, which should be within the institutional capacity of the Justice Department. Of course, even the rather simple distinction drawn in the preceding sentence may be beyond Pam Bondi's analytic capacity: the Amlaw 100 and the T14 don't do a lot of recruiting from Stetson University.
The problem with Congress is the 60 vote requirement in the Senate. With the hyper partisan atmosphere, neither side can get anything remotely controversial passed.
What used to be a rarely used tool for very important issues to senators has now become a logjam. If Congress is to be a part of the government, it must have the ability to act.
Or, here’s a crazy idea: some enterprising citizens start the process to amend the Constitution to spell out executive powers for deporting and admitting migrants. Right now that’s given to Congress who, as you point out, is useless. I give the odds of Congress enacting meaningful legislation at about the same as me winning the next Powerball. Not zero but not worth me buying a ticket.
Unfortunately, in a major mistake, the founders routed all means of constitutional amendment through Congress. As long as Congress refuses to act, there's no way for the public to get the ball rolling.
Doesn't matter how many states demand a constitutional convention, if Congress refuses to admit that enough have.
Maybe the very first amendment out of the Convention, if we manage to get one, should be to Article V, to require a new constitutional convention every 10 years or so, regardless of what Congress wants.
Huh? The Constitution provides expressly for a new constitutional convention upon application by two-thirds of the states (actually a lower number than the three-quarters required to ratify an amendment passed by Congress). Go to it! The people are with you! Erwin Chemerinsky (Berkeley Law dean) will join you in calling for a new convention.
I believe what's going on here is mainly politics/optics: They want to make the biggest headline splash. "Venezuelan gangs are invading and the courts won't let me remove them!" Eventually, the courts may stop them, or not; they are no worse off than if they'd used another means. Either way, Trump wins the argument, and Democrats and the courts get blamed for standing up for criminals and antisemitic troublemakers vs regular Americans. Later, he'll move on to conventional means, if he has to.
Judges appointed by Democratic presidents who are part of the "resistance" will never find in favor of the Trump administration, no matter what the government's lawyers do. Stop pretending otherwise.
Oh, stop whining. Lots of people have been deported under all kinds of administrations and involving many different judges in the past decades. By his own admission Trump is trying something different and of course there’s going to be some judicial scrutiny.
But the courts have to stay in their lanes. I get it that Judge Xinis is pissed that Kilmar isn't back in the USA. But she has no right to whine or enter abusive discovery orders. The government is not obligated to lift a finger to get Bukele to release this turd. So it's the judge that is being lawless, and lawlessness in a judge is not a good look.
We all know that Bukele will do what he is asked to do. Trump isn't asking.
No right at all!
He doesn't have to personally ask. We sent a request in a diplomatic note [according to NYT] and it got turned down.
Its all over but the judge's whining.
I’m saying she certainly has a right to whine (though likely no remedy) given the concession that Trump could easily do more to facilitate his return and is willfully not doing so.
But Trump isn't legally required to do so--so the judge acting because Trump wont do so is a problem.
That’s silly. The administration may get away with this because there may be no remedy but the judge can certainly note (whine) about what they did here (which was violate the law).
She can whine, but the abusive orders and tone are BS.
That's the problem with the order. It says he has to facilitate, not do everything in his power to facilitate. The judiciary cannot micromanage the executive that way. It seems that posters are arguing that he can be forced to make a phone call, but not release nuclear weapons. So how far does the judicial power control the executive between the two extremes? Could they mandate a prisoner swap?
Or, should it just be recognized that foreign policy is not within the judicial bailiwick?
Yes, the left told us that not every wrong has a remedy, when they were claiming that no one had standing to challenge the student loan cancellation.
This very well may be a "wrong" to someone who has no standing to challenge it.
Turns out that it's the job of the courts to decide what the government is obligated to do.
"The government is not obligated to lift a finger to get Bukele to release this turd."
Wrong, rloquitur. A unanimous Supreme Court has opined that "The [District Court] order properly requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador." Noem v. Abrego Garcia, 604 U. S. ____ (2025), https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf
Judge Xinis's April 4 order, as modified by her on April 10 within hours of the SCOTUS ruling, remains in force -- no matter how often you repeat the Big Lie that it is not.
There is nothing abusive about Judge Xinis's discovery orders. She issued a one week stay of her earlier order. That stay expired yesterday at 5:00 p.m., so the judge has issued a revised schedule: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.107.0_1.pdf
This order provides that by no later than Wednesday, May 7, 2025, Plaintiffs may move for leave of court to conduct up to two depositions of individuals with knowledge and authority to testify regarding the matters identified at ECF No. 79. President Trump's acknowledgement during his ABC interview that he could get Abrego Garcia back with a phone call gives the Plaintiffs a good faith basis to seek leave to depose the President.
Great. They've made their ruling. Now let them enforce it.
I would like to mention one point in Mr. Mahdawi’s favor. The FBI’s actions were not limited to charging him with a crime. as Professor Bernstein notes could instead have contacted ICE to deny him a green card or attempt to deport him. But they didn’t. Why didn’t they?
Who was POTUS in 2015? You have your answer.
The guy who deported more people in total than Trump to date?
The same guy who refused to send Ukraine Javelin missiles.
Yup, another egoist in the White House as usual
Who was FBI director? There is your answer as well. These were the same people that falsified evidence just to investigate and further the impeachment of POTUS
It's BS that the judge let him go.
Whom are you referring to that any judge has let go, rloquitur? Which judge, and which detainee?
Lets be clear - this is not a first amendment case. Anyone arguing otherwise is hugely distorting the facts.
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2025/05/01/abrego-garcia-case-keeps-getting-worse-for-dems-13-n3802318
Some more on Kilmar. Ha ha.
I’m not sure why you people don’t get that the concern in that case is not about what a creep or good guy the fellow is but rather about the lack of due process by the federal government. Rights are often applied for creeps. You’re acting like a caricature of Wilhot’s law.
He got his due process though.
In 9-0 opinion SCOTUS begged to differ.
I propose that any commentator using the term "due process" in this context must write a 1,000 word essay explaining what they mean and how it applies to this situation.
It seems to just be a talisman that when chanted is a gotcha to Trump and his supporters. As you said, he got a tremendous amount of process, more than what was due for an illegal alien gangbanger.
Due process means that the government must (like the rest of us) obey court orders. Even ill-advised ones until reversed on appeal. As Edward Coke said, “The king is under God and the law.”
You think the government making a bureaucratic SNAFU is a constitutional violation and a willful disobedience? People all across the country deal with government mistakes. It isn't a constitutional crisis.
No, that is insanity.
Judges are not more powerful than the legislature or executive. They should not be treated as such.
It is imperative that the President fiercely defend his constitutional rights from encroachment from the Court or from Congress.
He has also given Roberts more than sufficient time to reign in the judiciary, so it is time to just ignore them.
Wvattorney originally asked for a definition of due process, which was supplied. Now you're saying you're opposed to due process, which is a tenable position, but not what the Founding Fathers (who definitely read Edward Coke) wrote.
The government made a mistake. The question is then what does it have to do to remedy it. It is not required to lift a finger to get Bukele to do jack. Any contrary idea is just lawlessness masquerading as a commitment to due process.
The government illegally removed him. Interestingly this lawlessness doesn’t bother you.
"The government illegally removed him. Interestingly this lawlessness doesn’t bother you."
The government legally removed him. They unfortunately sent him to the one place they shouldn't have. A plane trip from El Salvador to Antarctica solves the legal issue.
I parked legally! I just unfortunately parked where I wasn't allowed to!
That is the question, what the government must do to remedy its mistake. It is a legal question. Questions of that nature are commonly answered by the courts. Which part of the foregoing, wholly conventional wisdom are you disputing?
And when the illegal alien ignores the court you cunts demand they need a whole do-over for them to ignore again instead of enforcing the existing orders. Fuck off with that dishonest BS.
He had due process. He was deportable. They just screwed up and sent him to the wrong country. The question then becomes--does the government have to correct that issue. (I think, actually, it's as simple as Bukele dumping him right over the border into Guatemala, but then your side would STILL want him to come back, and you know the judge would order it.
I, for one, relish the political fight because I think the federal judiciary needs to be taken down a peg. I love that Trump is humiliating them--maybe they should have thought of that when they were screwing over Michael Flynn (who admittedly is a scumbag). Trump is loaded for bear. Good for him.
“I, for one, relish the political fight because I think the federal judiciary needs to be taken down a peg.”
Yeah, I remember you felt this way when those TX judges stopped so many of Biden’s policies!
The FinCEN reporting stay was bullshit.
Rloquitur: "Officer, why are you towing my car and issuing me a $500 ticket? The sign says people are allowed to park on this street."
Officer: "Not where you did, in front of the fire hydrant. That's illegal."
Rloquitur: "Oh, so just because I screwed up and parked in the wrong spot, what's the big deal?"
So give me credit for honesty. We all know that Bukele will do what he is asked to do. Trump isn't asking.
So Trump is violating the spirit of the law. Yay, right?
You do not have to follow the spirit of the law. Just the actual words.
You, above: "Judges are not more powerful than the legislature or executive. They should not be treated as such."
So seems like you don't think the Trump doesn't even need to follow the words of the law. Or at least can suffer no consequences for failing to follow it.
What law says he needs to bring him back? Just like you could cite no law requiring homeowners to acquiesce to a squatter.
They broke the law with the removal.
What law says you need to follow court orders?
Or what law says you can't just send people to foreign prisons without a hearing?
Or what law says once a person is overseas, they've got no recourse in US courts but what the President wishes to bestow?
Has the court ordered Trump to bring him back? Has the court ordered Trump to do anything?
Orders by the court in a case that attaches a cabinet official just fail if the Prezzy don't wanna?
How magisterial!
Is this a stupidly-phased way of trying to argue that orders to cabinet officials bind the President?
"concern in that case is not about what a creep or good guy the fellow is but rather about the lack of due process"
Spare us the fake virtual. The concern is that Trump did it so you oppose it.
Absolutely not. You may not be fazed by federal law enforcement mistakenly forcing someone out of the country without due process but it’s the kind of thing that concerns me whoever is in charge when it happens.
Heck, it would be fine with me if he came back, got a brief hearing that found he’s deportable and then they flew him right back. But I’m the kind of guy who cares that the Feds play by the rules. I get YMMV.
He's deportable already. Just went to wrong country. If Bukele sends him to Guatemala, case closed.
Maybe he’s deportable but the way the administration did this in violation of the law.
From the final deportation order:
"The Respondent’s application for asylum is time-barred without exception. However, he has established past persecution based on a protected ground, and the presumption of a well-founded fear of future persecution. DHS has not shown there are changed circumstances in Guatemala that would result in the Respondent’s life not being threatened, or that internal relocation is possible and reasonable under the circumstances. Therefore, the Respondent’s application for withholding under the Act is granted. Finally, his CAT claim fails because he has not shown that he would suffer torture.”"
Note the country named.
“The United States acknowl-
edges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding
order forbidding his removal to El Salvador, and that the
removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.”
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf
And there should be consequences for that. But why should the guy be brought back? If you’re unlawfully seized while burglarizing someone’s house, they don’t order you to be put back in the guy’s house.
We read your other comments on other issues. So we know you are lying about your motives.
Its the same for everyone else on your side here.
Where else have I shown no concern for the federal government doing something like this? Put up or shut up.
Queenie, you reflexively hate everything Trump does, so you hate this.
So, having nothing you shift the goalposts back.
My comments are consistent. You moved the posts.
No, your initial comment was I just don’t like it because Trump did it. Then you said I wasn’t really against federal lawlessness. When I asked to produce any comment of mine approving of lawlessness like this you went back to your original goalposts.
You just don’t like being called out cheering illegal acts by the federal government.
Garcia's wife's has child[ern] with prior ex. Reports are that the wife's ex provided information that Garcia was gang member as part of custody dispute with garcia's wife.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/abrego-garcia-accused-by-wifes-ex
Well, that definitely checks out. Not like he could have an ulterior motive or anything.
I agree that lots of crap gets thrown around in custody disputes. However, the Ex's allegation lines up with quite a few other known facts. Far too many things are coming up in Garcia's history to dismiss as simply an unfounded allegation in a custody dispute.
...or not.
"Not like he could have an ulterior motive or anything."
Garcia and wife had no ulterior motive or anything when they denied it, I guess.
Always good watching Leftists like you defend murderous gangbanger scum. Really reveals who you are.
Old news, and all it is is a naked accusation. Which obviously the court didn't believe, since she retained custody.
https://x.com/JennieSTaer/status/1917342573456166953
"In 2015, the FBI conducted a thorough investigation of the allegations and found no basis to act."
Hmmm. Who was President in 2015?
The FBI was run by the same guy who was running guns to the cartels. An utter crook.
"To empathize is to understand the root cause and to not look at any event or situation in a vacuum. This is for me the path moving forward."
If we want to find a way forward, are we not supposed to say things like this? I too want some people on the other side to acknowledge things, and they repeatedly find it very hard to do so. People will say things we hate. The people involved not just being saints can be acknowledged on that front.
We also are told about his "subtle" antisemitism. There is a lot of subtle and not so subtle hate on each side.
As noted in a comment, the evidence to the earlier incident can be interpreted in multiple ways. We are told this:
Mahdawi denies the allegation, and his lawyers told the court that the FBI agent who investigated "was satisfied with his explanation and closed the investigation." The government acknowledged that the investigation ended without charges, but it was not "closed" in any official way.
The FBI agent who investigated was satisfied with his explanation even if it was not officially closed as an investigation. Are we supposed to assume the FBI (even during the Obama Administration) is too woke? If we are going to try to find things investigated but not carried to its conclusion, we can find a lot of things against people who are mistreated in some way.
But if acts are the concern, it is quite possible to find certain people, following due process, are deportable.
He should be on the next plane.
"If we want to find a way forward, are we not supposed to say things like this?" Yes, we are not supposed to say things like this when the question is, what do you think of the October 7 massacre, unless you first make it clear that you condemn the massacre. Being able to condemn it is basically a minimum requirement for being a civilized member of society.
I'd like to live in a world where the innocent aren't obligated to apologize for other people's violence in order to receive basic human empathy.
Bernstein doesn't care about innocence. He admits there is no evidence the kid said he likes to kill Jews. But he's furious the news won't report on this unsubstantiated event.
“Kid”?
He’s a fucking grown man, and too big of a Pussy to fight Jews who have their own guns, I saw the comments he made to the President as a direct threat, certainly more threatening than anything Thomas Crooks said, here’s hoping the Secret Service turns his head into a Canoe before he follows through on his threats
I admitted no such thing, I think the evidence from the gun store owner is extremely credible. And while Madawi is a perpetual student, it's rather unusual to refer to a 34 year old as a "kid."
Of course you admitted it. The FBI didn't find it credible enough to move forward, but you did? On what basis? Were you there? In reality you find it credible only because you wish it was true. You clearly don't care about innocence if a mere accusation in he-said-she-said is enough to you conclude deportation is justified. Do you know how easy it would be to get political opponents deported by going around accusing aliens of saying things they didn't?
I expect better from someone claiming to be a lawyer.
I have a question. Are you still teaching Evidence?
Shorter David Bernstein:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-kBVggFrs
Other threads have presented First Amendment absolutism: the same First Amendment rights that apply to a citizen apply to an alien in the US, or even an alien abroad seeking a visa.
Which is nuts, IMO. "I like to kill Jews" is protected by the First Amendment for a citizen. So is "Blacks are inferior, we should reinstitute slavery for them." So is "Hitler was right, we should abolish the Constitution and adopt Nazism as the governing law of the US." So is "democracy is bunk, we should impose Sharia law in the US."
All of that must be legally tolerated for citizens. It should not be for foreigners seeking to enter or stay in the US.
Amen.
Sure, who needs free expression of ideas anyway?
Perhaps it’s not under the letter of the law but it could be seen as against the spirit of it.
Thank you....makes 100% sense.
As always, that's means you must be willing to live with deporting foreigners who advocate reasonable viewpoints such as support for a two-state solution, or opposition to it, at the whims of the Secretary of State.
For the umpteenth time, we have Freedom of Speech not because "I like to kill Jews" is worthy of protection, but rather we do not trust the government to draw the line between worthy and unworthy speech.
Your position cedes the power to the government to draw that line as applied to deportations (precedent has already ceded it on admission).
No, look, we have to accept that, were it something that was politically popular in the US, an administration could get away with deporting aliens for expressing support for apple pie, motherhood, and continuing to hold regular democratic elections. If it were politically popular. As a formal matter, that's life with a representative form of government; If the public happen to hold really terrible views, the government gets to adopt really horrible discretionary policies.
I'm quite happy that what's politically popular is deporting aliens who want to kill Jews. And a representative government can do THAT, too.
This is distinct from what the government can do in regards to citizens, because citizens have a huge collection of rights against the government that aliens do not have, starting with the right to actually be in the country.
We should hold ourselves to a higher bar than what we could get away with.
For those who Brett supports, everything.
For everyone else, the law.
Exactly, no real free speech advocate would claim Chinese censorship is good just because it's the law over there. But Brett isn't a real free speech advocate.
I want no complaints about freedom of speech from you when a Democratic president kicks out aliens who advocate for tariffs or ending military aid to Ukraine.
"Your position cedes the power to the government to draw that line as applied to deportations (precedent has already ceded it on admission)."
You might like your guests crapping in your house but I wouldn't tolerate it. Same with our country.
I just don't care about your slippery slope.
"you must be willing to live with"
No. Please do not constitutionalize and judicialize every last thing.
Don't constitutionalize free speech?
The point I was trying to make is, logically, if you take a position that something is not against the constitution, that doesn't mean you must be willing to live with it.
I won't make traffic jams unconstitutional, but I can exhort my county or state to improve roads, or change my own living situation. I won't say every dumb or bad law Congress passes is unconstitutional, but I can vote and tell my representatives what I think. I won't say a public school providing pornographic materials to children is unconstitutional, but I can vote for school board members that will stop it, or remove my kids from the school.
But free speech is the issue under discussion, not traffic jams.
No, free speech for aliens is the issue under discussion, not free speech in general.
And we're not even talking about punishment, just revocation of a privilege. That's the thing that has to be remembered: If you're not a citizen, living in this country is a privilege.
I've visited other countries, and I've always kept my pie-hole shut concerning their politics while I was there. I kept in mind that I was a guest, that it wasn't MY country.
You're a citizen of El Salvador, and you want to petition your government for redress of grievances? Have at it: Your government is in El Salvador, not here.
As noted below, ML's argument is not so limited.
But yes, you have made it abundantly clear your worldview is hostile to free speech as a principle, and indeed liberty generally.
You like to use the word libertarian or talk about the paradox of tolerance.
But you are loud and proud with a policy preferences built around protecting the ingroup and binding the outgroup. Ingroup = citizen, well-off, white, male, straight, etc. etc.
Your argument (trust the majority) does not depend on whether the speech is uttered by citizens or aliens. It therefore must be the case that advocacy of killing Jews ought not be protected for citizens. Is there any line you would draw on speech where the majority cannot get its way?
I only meant to object to the idea that I must be "willing to live with" something whenever I don't have a federal judge to whip out like a pistol and fix it for me or defend against it. This language (and your argument is "trust the judges") absolutizes everything into a constitutional and federal judicial issue. Government by Judiciary, as Berger put it, or oligarchy as Jefferson put it.
To the particular issue at hand, as we have discussed before, I think the United States, if it is going to continue bringing in millions and millions of immigrants to grow the economy/labor supply/social security/tax base or whatever reason, should make some attempt to select for those who support freedom and limited self-government. Not to mention those who aren't homicidal or have criminal records, who will be productive and add value, etc. That's not going to be particularly controversial among most Americans, though some may disagree. There's no perfect way to do this and of course it could be done poorly. And yes it entails that that we favor certain viewpoints and that decisions aren't made without regard to expressed viewpoints.
I mean . . . is the oath of allegiance, required for becoming a citizen last I checked - is that illegal compelled speech? Or the citizenship test?
Speaking of majorities in general, the best way to guard against tyranny of the majority is to have many localized majorities each making their own decisions, and avoid as much as possible setting up an overarching majority with the power to bulldoze and subsume the diversity of local beliefs, cultures, and practices.
the best way to guard against tyranny of the majority is to have many localized majorities each making their own decisions
But see Jim Crow.
Ain't no algorithmic bests in this biz.
Is that the law or bored lawyer’s fantasy of what the law should be?
I love how many on the right have been criticizing (correctly) censorship overseas, particularly in Europe, for supposedly racist speech. But if free speech doesn't matter for foreigners why get upset with European censorship? Completely hypocritical. If free speech is a universal principle that should be defended everywhere then it applies to aliens and citizens alike.
"free speech" is not a universal human right, it is a right under national laws where applicable.
There could be a thousand reasons for not referring him to ICE (like its easier to watch him here than over there). But also, we've seen that the FBI is incompetent. So its 50-50. Either way, it doesn't matter. Bye.
"we've seen that the FBI is incompetent"
Famous But Incompetent
Look, expressing an interst in killing Jews is free speech. If you are a brown person.
Or if you are any other sort of person.
I guess interest in killing or deporting brown people is also free speech.
And killing peoples who’ve said they like killing you is self defense in my book
Maybe a minor detail, but the statement above isn't correct. The previous Times piece does mention the Facebook poem:
"[The Canary Mission] claims"
"[bad group] claims" so you can dismiss it
This guy hold the nearly 100%Palestinian ideology that no Jews belong in Palestine. The DOJ should find a legal way to get him of an American campus.
I’d be fine with him at Auburn, buried under 6 feet of Alabama clay
Anyone who "likes to kill" people, of any ethnicity or none in particular, shouldn't be granted immigration privileges here. Any granted should be immediately revoked.
Same for anyone who is a communist. You are free to be a communist and advocate for communism without punishment, especially if you are are a citizen. But the U.S. is also free to select among would be immigrants. Not being able to immigrate is not a punishment.
Cool! So the next Democrat in office can deport conservative immigrants because they supported MAGA. Oh, we could deport members of conservative religions, too. If the First Amendment doesn't apply, then it it all doesn't apply, amirite?!
If you could point me to a serious political party or politicians who advocate deporting people for holding mainstream political views then I might start to get concerned. Until then I will file this under false equivalence and slippery slope.
Democrats deporting people? They don't deport dangerous criminals, let alone people wearing MAGA hats. It would be politically and financially impossible for either side to have such a policy and no will by anyone to do it. It is self-policing.
Within the bounds of whatever laws Congress has passed or may pass in the future, sure. They can deport illegal immigrants for any or no reason, the reason doesn't matter. I assume they can revoke student visas and such as well, these visas shouldn't even be getting granted in the first place, at least not in such absurd amounts. It's just another gravy train handout to universities and another backdoor for open borders nuts. O-1 visas are good though.
There's no getting around the fact that politicians might do dumb or bad things. Judges aren't any better. The solution is not to make every dumb or bad thing unconstitutional. That's completely untenable.
Your terms are acceptable. Because I believe what I believe about this regardless of the political position being advocated for or against.
I will relish exposing Democrat hypocrisy of this future administration, having staked out its current position about deporting immigrants for their speech. Just reinforcing the BLM riots/Portland courthouse/Seattle CHAZ contradiction with January 6. I know, I know, they will again claim it's (D)ifferent. It's only fascism when the other guys do it.
If you simply remove illegals from the Census, Democrats would be on board deporting them en masse.
Democrats are already more enthusiastic than Republicans about deporting immigrants based on the deportations from the Obama, Biden and two Trump terms. Or more competent at it in any case.
While we're at it, though, the census thing doesn't really help Democrats:
https://www.thirdway.org/memo/is-illegal-immigration-really-a-democratic-plot-to-sway-congressional-apportionment
Those prior Obama (and perhaps Biden) numbers are somewhat bogus, because the Obama administration started counting those turned away at/near the border as deportations. Trump's shock and awe has been so successful in the short run, his numbers won't get similarly goosed by throwing back the non-existent border crossers. It remains to be seen how successful the administration is over 4 years, or if they waste their time on appearances and fighting to establish new legal precedents.
To his credit, Obama was the first to put kids in cages.
Agree with much of what Professor Bernstein has written, especially his criticism of Somin's position, but want to highlight his last bit, which was almost an afterthought (because it was not germane to his primary points)...
I too do not understand the arrest of Mahdawi, so his habeas petition has merit. The legal process always matters. So the judge was probably correct here, as his deportation does not seem imminent.
Ah, I can kind of understand the decision to arrest somebody who you know has expressed a desire to murder people. You really do NOT want them to decide, while free and awaiting their deportation, "Welp, I guess it's now or never!".
The problem is the amount of time that has elapsed since 2015, without any apparent bad behavior in the meantime which might justify immediate detention.
Like Professor Bernstein says, "he doesn't strike me as an immediate threat nor as much of a flight risk." As this is an Article III court involving a US person, the due process requirements are higher. If the government wants to make a case, have at it. But then they have to make a case. That's a separate question from whether his green card can be revoked, which I believe his prior behavior could justify. I'm just going to hold the liberals to their standard here that speech is violence. Of course they only mean that about speech they don't like. Oh well.
Moe-hammed Atta didn’t seem like an “imminent danger” until he was. Whatever happened to the “Moose-lum Ban”?
Then there's no reason why the administration shouldn't expedite revoking his green card. All the due process rules still apply. Arguing that he's a sleeper agent about to activate, without evidence, is not due process.
>>In 2015, the FBI conducted a thorough investigation of the allegations and found no basis to act.
"baloney" is the clear response to either "thorough" or "no basis to act" or both.
I am a politically conservative Jew. I am also a First Amendment/Free Speech maximalist. These cases are challenging for me.
Aliens coming here on visas do not have the same First Amendment rights as citizens. The US has a responsibility and a Constitutional duty to screen potential visitors when deciding to grant them visas. I believe it is appropriate for the State Department Visa Office (whatever it is actually named) to inquire about whether the applicant supports violence against the US or US allies. I believe it is appropriate for the Visa Office to deny visas to such aliens. I believe it is appropriate for the Visa Office to investigate aliens who have already been granted visas and are in the US if such aliens who have has made such statements.
There needs to be procedures in place for these types of investigations. But an alien in this country on a visa or a green card does not have all of the protections that a citizen has.
If it's constitutional to deport Pro-Palestine supporters, it is also constitutional to deport Pro-Israel supporters. But if and when the shoe is on the other foot I guarantee Bernstein will do a full flip-flop and pretend he believes in free speech again.
I will enjoy the intra-Democrat civil war that might result. Maybe that succeeds in finally causing more Jewish Americans to flee the Democrat party by exposing the growing tide of its antisemitism amongst its youngest adherents.
Yes, it would be constitutional to deport pro-Israel supporters, but the USA has sided with Israel. Only the pro-Hamas supporters are anti-American.
Right, and because Bernstein has no principles he will do a full 180 when they deport anyone from his side.
There is a specific statute barring supporters of terrorism from entering the US, and Hamas is a US designated terrorist group, making deporting Hamas supporters actually *required* under US immigration law. If there was a similar law regarding Israel supporters, it would be perfectly legal to deport aliens who supported Israel, though of course I would oppose the law and seek its repeal.
Good. So we have you on record as admitting you never believed in free speech in the first place. At least you are consistent in saying the First Amendment wouldn't protect pro-Israel supporters from deportation either.
However, there is a problem with what you said about the statute. There is no law baring advocates of a designated terrorist group. That is just a flat out lie. The law bars the advocacy of any terrorism, regardless of who commits it. So pro-Israel supporters are just as deportable as pro-hamas supporters since both sides are engaged in terrorism.
In fact, there's a lot of deportable speech out there. Under the statute terrorism is so broad it includes virtually any act of war - the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Ukraine defending it's territory, assassinating Putin or the heads of Hezbollah. It's disingenuous to say this doesn't apply to the pro-Israel side.
That's ridiculous. Stating a belief that existing US law is valid and constitutional is not admitting one never believed in free speech in the first place.
Because your analysis would also apply to those who supported disqualifying Trump under Section 3 of the 14A, viewing his ellipse speech as evidence unprotected by the First Amendment, because 14A3 superseded 1A by amending the Constitution.
Wanting to deport people because they disagree with you about Israel is not a free speech position. Bernstein is a clown if he continues to go around advocating for these deportations and says with a straight face he's a free speech defender.
'admitting you never believed in free speech in the first place.'
That is quite a dishonest distortion of what DB wrote, "admitting you never believed in free speech in the first place."
If you're that dishonest I see nothing worth reading in your post.
"The US was obligated to admit aliens on 9/12/2011 who showed up at the border wearing Osama bin Laden t-shirts" is hardly the only position one can have and still be pro-free speech, and indeed while it is a pro-free speech position, it's also an insane one.
"while it is a pro-free speech position, it's also an insane one"
-David Bernstein
Let that sink in. Being pro-free speech is "insane" according to DB. Coming from the guy who has been claiming for year to be a free speech defender. There is no limit to his depravity.
You're a mind reader as well as dishonest.
See below.
Well, the pro-Putin ones are, too. Which is going to be pretty awkward at the next RNC.
You call pro-Putin anyone who opposes massive spending on weapons for Ukraine.
So acc. to you, "I like to Kill Jews" is the same as "Pro-Palestine supporters."
These guys are not even pretending anymore.
It seems that you love to find excuses to defend the people who want to kill Jews.
David Bernstein said, "I like to kill Jews." Time to deport David Bernstein.
The opinion is curious. First, even if the allegations were true, there was nothing criminally he could have been charged with. Second, the fact that in 2015 a Democratic administration chose not to proceed with deportation proceedings is not usual. It speaks nothing to what the administration now wants to do after finding more information that in conjunction with the prior acts supports a removal action.
It is almost like an adverse possession theory of immigration. Since Obama/Biden let them in, they now have a right to remain. That makes no sense. It is a one-way ratchet where Democrats can do things that Republicans can never undo.
That was my reaction to the opinion as well, and I'm not sure why the judge was opining on all that rather than just ruling on whether he can stay in custody pending deportation proceedings. At the end, he seems to fancy himself standing up to Trumpian hysteria and that seems to lead to him downplaying the actual case before him.
Well, "I like to kill Jews!" has 112 posts and counting.
I don't know if it's good it's still controversial, or bad it's still controversial.
Do...do you think the discussion here is "Liking to kill Jews - y/n?"
No sympathy. American Jews have spent the last 100 years, starting with advocating against the National Origins Act in 1924, trying to impose open borders against an unwilling American people. Now these third worlders are trying to bite the Jewish hands that fed them. These fools thought the nonsense "For we were all slaves in the land of Egypt" that they learned on one of the three days a year that they practice Judaism was a good roadmap for immigration policy.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
Also Russian Jews, like Ilya Somin. He has another post today favoring forcing foreigners on Americans.
"assuming the statements of the gun store owner were deemed credible." What standard would the learned professor propose for deeming credibility? I would hope it might involve testimony under penalties of perjury, cross-examination, etc. I think it's something called due process.
Bernstein doesn't believe in due process. He determines credibility based on feels.
"musing about killing Jews" is protected by the First Amendment for good reason -- because the only way to have free speech is to keep exceptions to a few enumerated categories, and the statement does not fit into any existing ones (it's not an incitement to imminent lawless action or a true threat). And this reasoning does not depend on speakers' citizenship.