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Can A Federal Court Force The President To Negotiate With A Foreign Leader To Obtain Return of Alien?
Noem v. Garcia comes to the Supreme Court.
Earlier today, Solicitor General Sauer filed his first emergency application with the Supreme Court. This case concerns the District Court's order to return an alien who was deported to a prison in El Salvador. The statement lays out the stakes:
On Friday afternoon, a federal district judge in Maryland ordered unprecedented relief: dictating to the United States that it must not only negotiate with a foreign country to return an enemy alien on foreign soil, but also succeed by 11:59 p.m. tonight. Complicating the negotiations further, the alien is no ordinary individual, but rather a member of a designated foreign terrorist organization, MS-13, that the government has determined engages in "terrorist activity" or "terrorism"—or "retains the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism"—that "threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States." The order compels the government to allow Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia to enter the United States on demand, or suffer the judicial consequences.
At a superficial level, I understand the district court's order. The judge found that Garcia was unlawfully deported, and therefore sought the return of the alien. Isn't this simply the sort of injunction that courts issue to the executive branch all the time? Not quite. Here, obtaining the return of the alien would require the President to successfully negotiate the release of the alien from a foreign leader. Even if the President makes this request, the foreign leader is under no obligation to comply. I am seriously doubtful this is the sort of power that the judiciary has.
The SG makes this argument quite forcefully:
Even amidst a deluge of unlawful injunctions, this order is remarkable. Even respondents did not ask the district court to force the United States to persuade El Salvador to release Abrego Garcia—a native of El Salvador detained in El Salvador— on a judicially mandated clock. For good reason: the Constitution charges the President, not federal district courts, with the conduct of foreign diplomacy and protecting the Nation against foreign terrorists, including by effectuating their removal. And this order sets the United States up for failure. The United States cannot guarantee success in sensitive international negotiations in advance, least of all when a court imposes an absurdly compressed, mandatory deadline that vastly complicates the give-and-take of foreign-relations negotiations. The United States does not control the sovereign nation of El Salvador, nor can it compel El Salvador to follow a federal judge's bidding. The Constitution vests the President with control over foreign negotiations so that the United States speaks with one voice, not so that the President's central Article II prerogatives can give way to district-court diplomacy. If this precedent stands, other district courts could order the United States to successfully negotiate the return of other removed aliens anywhere in the world by close of business. Under that logic, district courts would effectively have extraterritorial jurisdiction over the United States' diplomatic relations with the whole world.
The government concedes that Gacia's removal was in error, but maintains that the Supreme Court should recognize the sovereignty of a co-equal branch of government.
But, while the United States concedes that removal to El Salvador was an administrative error, see App., infra, 60a, that does not license district courts to seize control over foreign relations, treat the Executive Branch as a subordinate diplomat, and demand that the United States let a member of a foreign terrorist organization into America tonight.
Judges have ordered planes to be turned around and negotiations to be had with foreign leaders. I realize that Trump is breaking many norms, but judges are streamrolling through norms as well.
What does Chief Justice Roberts do here? The John Roberts of 2005, who vigorously ruled in favor of the Bush Administration with regard to Guantanamo Bay, would grant this application in a heartbeat. But the John Roberts of 2025 has been changed by decades of compromise.
I think the most likely outcome is that Roberts follows the lead of Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson on the Fourth Circuit: deny the application, but "clarify" that the District Court can only require the President to "facilitate" the return of the alien. Here is what Wilkinson wrote:
I would deny the request for a stay of the district court's order pending appeal. We deal here with what I hope is the extraordinary circumstance of the government conceding that it made an error in deporting the plaintiff to a foreign country for which he was not eligible for removal. In this situation, I think it legitimate for the district court to require that the government "facilitate" the plaintiff's return to the United States so that he may assert the rights that all apparently agree are due him under law. It is fair to read the district court's order as one requiring that the government facilitate Abrego Garcia's release, rather than demand it. The former seems within the trial court's lawful powers in this circumstance; the latter would be an intrusion on core executive powers that goes too far.
Like in the USAID case, the Court would ostensibly deny relief, but still offer instructions to the lower court--yet another advisory opinion.
I still remain confounded that the best the Bush Administration had to replace Rehnquist was Roberts, Wilkinson, or Luttig. Our bench is so much deeper today.
Update: Chief Justice Roberts granted a temporary administrative stay, and called on the Respondent to file a brief tomorrow (Tuesday):
Order entered by The Chief Justice: Upon consideration of the application of counsel for the applicants, it is ordered that the April 4, 2025 order of the United States District Court for the District of Maryland, case No. 8:25-cv-951, is hereby stayed pending further order of The Chief Justice or of the Court. It is further ordered that a response to the application be filed on or before Tuesday, April 8th, 2025, by 5 p.m. (EDT).
Almost immediately, Respondents filed their response. They were ready to go.
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There is one more thing here -- "diplomacy" includes warfare.
Can a judge order the POTUS to send the Marines into El Salvador?
Can a judge order Congress to declare war on El Salvador?
In theory, that is what the judge ordered.
In theory, the US can set up gas chambers in North Korea, release them to NK custody as an "oopsie" administrative error, gas all the jews, and claim the courts can't do anything about it. And our piece of trash constitution says this is all perfectly fine, nothing to see here.
What exactly would you propose as a fix for our piece of trash constitution -- allow the courts to send in the Marines, move carriers around, launch a few nuclear missiles?
Do you have any actual, you know, practical, realistic suggestions?
I think a judge can order Trump to obey the law. You disagree?
What does that mean in this case?
Does the deported individual have a valid visa?
Is the deported individual a US citizen?
What law allowed a non US citizen with neither a passport or a valid visa to remain in the US?
It might have been refugee law. You need neither citizenship nor a valid visa to apply for refugee protection.
could be - but highly unlikely to be true, nor has there been any evidence (credible evidence) that he was seeking asylum or refugee status
also worth noting is the vast majority seeking refugee status or asylum are dubious
To "obey the law" would be to not have deported him to El Salvador
Since I judge can't order time travel, no he can't order that.
He also can't order Trump to carry out negotiations with the gov't of El Salvador to get them to release Garcia.
So the judge is sh!t out of luck
"The government concedes that Gacia's removal was in error, but maintains that the Supreme Court should recognize the sovereignty of a co-equal branch of government."
Lmao, Blackman all but endorsing the Kafka argument the government is advancing. Man who is here legally gets accidentally shipped off to a third world camp, government turns around to say they can't order another sovereign to ship him back due to "muh separation of powers" that only happened because the government wrongfully deported him in the first place.
They can't order another sovereign to ship him back due to the fact that the they don't have any authority over that other sovereign. That is, in fact, what "sovereign" means. That's not Kafkaesque unless you consider reality itself to be Kafkaesque.
Wow! What a neat weird trick for the US government to just deport anyone they want without reprisal.
Hopefully they don't see your post to get this idea.
If El Salvador refuses, what can the judge do next?
Order in the B-52s.
Why not -- judicial dictators can do as they please.
US citizens can't be deported.
Why not?
So if a US citizen were deported, it would be an error?
Maybe it was a joke about Americans being on the larger side? ("Yo momma so fat, the Trump administration couldn't accidentally deport her!") Certainly they weren't arguing that the justice system is infallible.
So if federal agents send you to an El Salvadorian prison before there can be any US judicial or administrative process on whether you are eligible for removal what legal remedy would you have under the Trump (and your) argument that a court can’t compel the President or his subordinates to do anything to get you back?
I would also love to hear the answer to this question.
I think the US government, with the exception of some members of the judiciary branch, already knows it can't just order other governments to do things.
Does it? That will come as a relief to the rest of the world.
Not every transgression by the government has a remedy that judges can order. Federal agents occasionally accidentally kill people. Judges can't order the government to bring them back to life.
So is the remedy damages?
Even damages are available only if the government has previously waived its sovereign immunity. Sometimes the only remedy is during the next cycle at the ballot box.
That’s not a remedy for anyone wrongfully sent to prison in a foreign country though.
Obviously sovereign immunity is dumb, but that’s another discussion.
I don't see a separation of powers problem with damages, although damages against the federal government are often unavailable when I think they should be.
I'm not sure the remedy for someone wrongfully deported who doesn't have the right to be here in the first place should be to be brought back, though.
You're begging the question. At minimum he's entitled to the process that would determine whether he has the right to be here in the first place.
Any comments on the district court and 4th cir talking about El Salvador being a paid contractor to hold US detainees? (they reference the 6million fee and holding them for 1yr subject to US discretion)
And the order doesn't order El Salvador to do anything. It orders the US Govt, who is paying for his CECOT prison stay, to retrieve him. Remember, this guy has no criminal record in El Salvador and isn't being held because of something he did in El Salvador or violation of their laws. So absent the US contract, El Salvador wouldn't be detaining him at all.
I wouldn't see a separation of powers problem with courts ordering the government not to cancel any contracts they have to detain this individual, to the extent permitted by the contract.
So if I remember the district court proceedings correctly; the plaintiff attorney didn't ask the Court to order El Salvador to do anything. It asked the Court to order the US GOVT to not fund his further detention in EL Salvador. Which the practical effect would be, El Salvador not having a reason to detain him separately from the US Govt's contract, would either release him OR make arrangements with the US to retrieve him.
Given that the contract itself is not public record; we don't know if its 6million for 1yr's detention of however many we send or if there is a set fee per prisoner for 1yr (subject to US requests for extensions per Bukele himself). It may be impossible to segregate the fee's of one detainee and the US DOJ will likely say the contract is a state secret...since they can't admit a mistake and would rather obstruct the court's and lose credibility than seek a reasonable accommodation. This DOJ is obstinate and keeps whining about the Court's treating them unfairly while at the same time, sending DOJ lawyers to argue cases who are unable to answer simple questions from the Courts.
On what grounds was this person detained? I don't know your honor. Why was the previous order preventing removal to EL Salvador ignored? I don't know your honor. I am trying to find that out. Once you realized there was a mistake, what steps did you take to correct it? I am sorry your honor, I don't have an answer for you. I am trying to find out. Repeat the same sequence ad nauseum for a 1hr hearing. Nobody knows nothing and there is nothing they can do now. We've tried nothing and are all out of ideas.
Imagine my shock when the fed district court judge's are unhappy with these games given the constitutional implications being litigated and the DOJ's attitude of "we don't care."
If only there were some financial arrangement that we had made with this sovereign that might persuade them to cooperate.
LoganMankins 24 minutes ago
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Mute User
" Man who is here legally gets accidentally shipped off to a third world camp,"
Was that person a legal alien with a valid visa?
Was that person a US citizen?
Whoops, forgot courts can intrude on another branch of government if it turns on if the accidental deportation was of a US citizen.
I'm sure the THT of the constitution backs this claim fully.
Sorry - copied the wrong part of your statement -
LoganMankins 2 hours ago
"Man who is here legally gets accidentally shipped off to a third world camp, "
The questions I asked -
Was that person a legal alien with a valid visa?
Was that person a US citizen?
Of course not. He was a gang banger that made up some bullshit about being abused in a prison back at home because of what he did there, in his gang.
He's not a "Maryland father." He's a Salvadorian thug gang banger squatting in America. Or at least he was. HAHAHAH
Not kind, or gentle, the truth seldom is.
If this is true, why hasn't the federal government presented any of this evidence in court?
Not only ship them off, but have anyone executed in another country at any time, for any reason, and claim "administrative error" when it sends them there illegally. Blackman says constitution allows it and courts have no authority to intervene.
For a libertarian, Volokh is an affront. And so it naturally has a home at Reason. H.L. Mencken wouldn't be invited to write for Reason, and given how it has become, neither would have of the most principled and muscular libertarians. For all intents and purposes, there is no "libertarian movement" if there ever was one.
To be fair, it does say 'often libertarian', not 'always libertarian'. 😉
I think the SG's argument gets ahead of itself. The order is to return Abrego Garcia to the United States. How to do so is up to the government, and hardly a foregone conclusion that it's either a problem or requires any negotiations at all. Given that his detention is pursuant to a paid agreement, the first step is to just ask.
At this point, the government has neither asserted that it asked or that El Salvador refused. The government has not explained the terms by which El Salvador has taken and holds prisoners at the behest of America.
Only after the government can proffer evidence that it has sought the return and its request/demand has been refused does the government reach the issue raised by the SG, about what the government is obliged to do next to comply with the order.
At that point, the Catch-22 situation the government created comes into play, but we're not there yet.
"The order is to return Abrego Garcia to the United States. "
How would the Executive effect this order without engaging in what is the Executive's clear Constitutional prerogative under Article II? For the court to even make the order is an intrusion on those specifically-enumerated powers.
What enumerated power are you referring to?
Wrong article.
You do understand that you don't have to be obnoxiously sarcastic all the time, don't you?
Just catch him making an error, and he'll flee the thread like a coward.
What is sarcastic about my question?
I came here to make this point also. The order puts the Government in the position of needing to offer evidence, or at least explanations about what is and is not possible. Based on public reporting, the US appears to control the contract with El Salvador to accept deportees for a fee. That implies the US retains some ability to un-deport people. If that is not the case, then the US Government can explain that to the court, together with assertions that it "tried" to negotiate the protected person's release but failed. This is an exercise in fleshing out the record before appeal.
"tried" to negotiate"
The point is that the court cannot make the executive negotiate at all.
Why not? The court can make the government do whatever the law already requires the government to do.
There is public reporting that the US sent female detainees to CECOT but...CECOT is a male only detention facility. How the US fucked that simple thing up, is anyone's guess. Which most likely meant the US went and retrieved them since they were the one's who brought them. BY MISTAKE.
So we already know that if a detainee is sent to CECOT is sent there by mistake, there is a way to retrieve them. It might be hard for this administration to accommodate simple orders because of the overwhelming amount of stupidity of the people involved, but not impossible. They just want make a stink and repeat "foreign designated MS13 terrorist' 15,000 times in a brief in the hopes that it convinces themselves they are not immoral fascists carrying out insane orders from an insane president while arguing for granting said insane president non-reviewable unlimited power. Or what Pam Bondi calls, "zealous advocacy on behalf of your client."
Just tell the females to identify as male (if they weren't already).
Problem solved.
Based, as far as I know, solely on an unsworn* declaration chock-full of demonstrable, grossly incorrect factual claims (e.g., claimed she was peeking at the watches of guards to know when flights took off, but the times were all off by bizarrely different amounts, claimed her flight returned half a day earlier than it did based on public flight tracking, etc.).
* Yes, I know the attorney channeling it swore it was what the person told her. That's of course completely different than the actual witness swearing her story is correct.
Not just the public reporting but that is how the Chief Executive himself described the deal.
It's already the case that when a court orders something and a party makes a good-faith effort to comply with the order but cannot effectuate the desired outcome in time, they file a status report with the court indicating their progress and the incomplete compliance and the court figures out a process to follow up.
Right? Like, if a court orders me to pay you $100,000, and I don't have $100,000, I can pay you what I do have, submit a payment plan for future payments, etc. and the judge will ultimately have to evaluate whether or not that's good faith compliance that is nevertheless incomplete, or whether actually I have a bank account with $1,000,000 right now and I'm just not complying.
So what exactly differs here? Wilkinson's reading is the most natural reading of the order + guidance for what happens when the government inevitably does not successfully comply in time for the deadline; they are required to take steps towards the order and document those steps to show compliance, but they are not micromanaged in the exact tools they use.
I notice that although Wilkinson's concurrence also admits it's very clear the government is not taking any steps towards following the order, even steps that clearly don't infringe on any foreign policy prerogative, you didn't note that... hmm...
Harvie WIlkinson wants to split the baby. Um, no. An El Salvadoran citizen is in El Salvador. Deported in error or not, the courts simply don't have the power to order the government to admit an alien.
This is something to break the judiciary over.
Of course the Courts have the power to order the government to admit an alien-- that's the entire asylum system.
But more to the point, the Courts absolutely have the power to order the government to make the attempt. Right now, the government hasn't even made the attempt.
Nope. Guy has to be here first.
The Courts do not have the power to compel the Executive to negotiate for a particular outcome with a foreign sovereign.
Think of how ridiculous that is?
A judge could force Trump to negotiate certain outcomes in the Paris Accord?
The fact that a court can order thing X, doesn't mean that they can order completely unrelated thing Y that has no similarity in any way beyond, I guess, the party being ordered, I agree.
They are similar by this key phrase:
"the power to compel the Executive to negotiate for a particular outcome with a foreign sovereign"
A judge trying to force Trump to negotiate the successful release of the suspected M-13 terrorist with the nation of El Salvador.
A judge trying to force Trump to negotiate a 40% carbon tax in the Paris Accord.
While I do not necessarily disagree that the court lacks the ability to order the executive to carry this order out. The fact that we are in this situation, an administrative error, is the executive's fault. To blame it on the courts, " I realize that Trump is breaking many norms, but judges are streamrolling through norms as well," is beyond the pale. Unless, of course, you have no problem with this type of action.
The courts are demanding that the Administration follow their view of the law. (Look, for example, at that megalomaniac Boasberg.) If the courts blow off the law, how can they expect others to follow it.
When the Executive itself has admitted it made a mistake, it is hardly a conflict over a view of the law.
Yes. That's correct. Because it is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.
Cool, blabbering about how it’s John Robert’s fault! The Trump administration just sent some dude to a El Salvadoran torture prison and won’t fix their error. What if it was a civilian? Still no authority here? Cool, so I guess none of the constitutional rights mean anything and no one can do anything about it. That is what you think the constitution says?
But apparently censoring stuff on Facebook is a crime against humanity (and it was wrong!) but sending people to prison camps by mistake is totally fine. Right?
It’s all morally repellent and disgusting, and honestly if this is how “conservatives” are now I regret that I was ever associated with it.
Dude is an alien, and but-for a BS order, dude would have been deported a long time ago. You want him released from the prison, go ask El Salvador.
He is being held in an El Salvador prison owing to US government agreement. In your opinion he deserved to be deported, but that is not the same as saying he should also be imprisoned. He has been deprived of liberty by the Federal government without due process of law, and you support the Executive's resistance to correcting its mistake.
I assume the "BS order" you refer to is the 2019 immigration court order preventing his deportation to El Salvador. What information leads you to conclude it was "BS"? After all, the first Trump administration didn't appeal it, nor did it send him anywhere else. Instead, it released him from custody. He's been out six years, apparently without engaging in any MS-13 activities, or at least none the government cares to articulate.
Exactly. That there is even an argument about this is ridiculous.
Apparently, even if Trump admits error he won't lift a finger to correct it. Why does it need a court order? Any half-decent human being would have already been talking to El Salvador, but these assholes just want to make stupid excuses about why they can't.
Does the phone on Trump's desk not work?
He's an El Salvadoran--the mistake was due to violating a BS court order, nothing substantive.
Why is the court order not to deport to el Salvador BS but the even more tentative court finding that he had not rebutted for purposes of a bond hearing the alleged MS13 membership sacrosanct?
"already been talking to El Salvador"
Why? All they did was send an El Salvadorian citizen back to El Salvador.
Illegally.
So? Bernard made a moral argument. A bad one but not a legal argument..
Don’t send people to where they can be tortured and killed isn’t actually a bad moral argument.
It isn't a bad moral argument if you aren't a nihilist. Nobody ever accused Bob of not being a nihilist, so get off his back.
"Here, obtaining the return of the alien would require the President to successfully negotiate the release of the alien from a foreign leader. Even if the President makes this request, the foreign leader is under no obligation to comply."
As the Fourth Circuit concurrences pointed out, there is robust evidence from the White House's own comments and actions that El Salvador is holding these people at our request and indeed we are paying them to do that. That unusual circumstance supports the district court's order here.
It also does not seem plausible that the President's Article II powers have to be construed as so absolute that they must be read to destroy constitutional democracy. If the President can rendition anyone to a torture camp in another country without a remedy, that's the ball game.
How does any of that pass the "so what" test? Now the judiciary gets to peer through into negotiations? What's next, an order forcing Trump to bring back the AEA deported criminals?
Trump should send an amicus brief: "On the return of the El Salvadoran who came to the USA illegally. Not just no, but fuck no. See U.S. Const. art. II."
And when he does this to someone legally here? Is that the same answer?
What if they’re a citizen but a federal prisoner? Is that the same answer?
What if they’re simply charged with a crime but sent there for holding pending trial (which never seems to happen because they’re not in the country anymore). Same answer?
What if they confuse someone who isn’t any of those things with one of the category above? Same answer?
What if they simply don’t like a guy? Same answer?
What if President AOC does it to you? Same answer?
Also, the court doesn't seem to realize that Trump could tell his subordinates that only he is allowed to enter into discussions with E; Salvador on this issue. And then he just doesn't. What the fuck is a court gonna do then?
Well, maybe he should have to do that!
Issue a writ of mandamus to compel him.
I can’t help thinking of the Trump administration’s efforts to resume federal executions in 2020. There, they made a concerted effort to find people who were unquestionably guilty of incredibly heinous murders and had been given every opportunity to fully litigate their cases. As a result 1. they successfully carried out the executions they’d planned and 2. the people who tried to obstruct them ended up looking rather foolish.
It seems like it would have been wiser to make extra sure that all of these deportations were clearly justifiable before going ahead with them. Even if that meant fewer people on the first flights, it’s hard to imagine how that wouldn’t have fared better in the long run.
Yes, but I think they are going to stick it hard to the likes of Judge Boasberg. His efforts to hold the Trump Admin in contempt for violating an oral statement are going to look ridiculous. Here's a guy who seems to have engineered his taking of the case. He turned this into a class action immediately and has intimated that the failure to wait until he ruled on the legality of the deportations is "bad faith."
Boasberg is a piece of shit. I hope he chokes on a piece of matzah on Saturday.
What is your evidence that Boasberg is Jewish?
Well, that’s kind of the point. It was inevitable that this policy was going to be challenged, and reasonably likely that the challengers were going to be able to get it in front of a judge who wouldn’t look at it very favorably. Since it was completely the administration’s choice when and how to start executing the policy, there’s no real excuse for this kind of misstep.
Why do you assume this was a misstep? I mean— I get why DOJ is saying that publicly. To me, this looks like purposeful boundary testing and indeed I expect more of this kind of thing going forward.
The blithe confidence that is exhibited around here in the idea that this power, once arrogated, will remained cabined is puzzling to me. History indicates otherwise. As Tom Homan put it— “families can be deported together.”
"Why do you assume this was a misstep?"
His inclusion probably was but I doubt Trump, Noem, Bondi and Homan care now. It serves the larger purpose, "we will f**k you up if you enter illegally".
WTF is wrong with you?
Shooting illegal immigrants on sight sends the same "message." Would that be OK?
Come to think of it, I'm afraid I know your answer.
"Even if that meant fewer people on the first flights, it’s hard to imagine how that wouldn’t have fared better in the long run."
They wanted a "shock and awe" splash. "See what happens if you come here illegally, you get to go to a maximum security facility in a third world country."
the people who tried to obstruct them ended up looking rather foolish
Judge David Tatel in his autobiography discusses why he found one challenge to have been based on serious grounds.
You might find his analysis wrong but not sure how "rather foolish" it is. And that is just one. Multiple other judges, and three justices, and other legal and non-legal observers, found multiple challenges convincing.
The conservative justices did find the challenges obstructionist though how compelling that is -- including their final order skipping over a normal appellate review in the final days of the Trump Administration that basically only had the purpose of making sure they could execute a few more people -- open to some debate.
Your bottom line is more accurate -- they could have taken the time, but Estragon's reply is reasonably convincing.
You are correct about how judges responded. And because the administration had anticipated those challenges and gotten ahead of them before acting, most sensible people were able to see them for the bad faith, results-driven obstructionism that they were. Including, of course, a majority of the Supreme Court, meaning that the policy got implemented successfully.
I don't think you're cynical enough. While I'm not going to suggest that they deliberately flouted a court order, I don't think they cared whether they did. The goal here was to set up a confrontation to get a ruling that the president could do whatever he wanted.
Was it OK for a court to tell the Biden administration to go negotiate a "Remain in Mexico" policy?
According to numerous press reports the US is paying El Salvador to incarcerate these people. Given that it does not seem like much of a stretch to think that the US can get them released. Once they are released it is just a matter of a plane ticket.
You don't think that the President of El Salvador isn't gonna read between the lines?
Police handed custody of Abrego Garcia over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) for deportation proceedings.[4] In those proceedings, the government claimed that he was a member of the MS-13 criminal gang because "he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie" and a confidential informant claimed that he was active with an MS-13 group based in New York.[4] An immigration judge determined that the informant's claim[7] was sufficient evidence for denying Abrego Garcia’s bond request,[5] and another judge upheld that ruling, saying the claim that Abrego Garcia in MS-13 wasn't clearly wrong.[5] He has consistently denied any connection to MS-13.[8] While awaiting resolution to his deportation proceedings, Garcia married his girlfriend in June 2019, and they had a child together later that year.[4] His wife also had two children from an earlier relationship, and all three children have special needs.[4] Abrego Garcia and his family live in Maryland.[6]
Even if you assume the facts are the most favorable to Garcia, he produced a low quality, special needs child that will need tons of taxpayer support. He's not someone America needs nor wants.
I mean, the same can be said about what your parents did to the country when they inflicted you on us. I'd rather live next to MS-13 than to you.
Let me get this straight. The first argument was 'deportations are entirely lawful, nothing to see here.' That was incorrect, as the government concedes. Now the argument is 'we unlawfully screwed this guy over, and there is nothing you can do about it'. What exactly is the remedy, other than status quo ante?
Assume a court cannot get it done, should not the government be compelled to fix this?
Congress could pass laws embargoing or otherwise penalizing the Salvadoran government if it doesn't release the guy and give him a plane ticket. Congress could impeach the President.
"A court can't order the Executive to negotiate successfully with a foreign government" doesn't mean there's no way to fix this.
The executive branch caused the problem. It is the responsibility of the executive branch to fix it. Or at least try to fix it.
The illegal alien who violated our laws caused the problem.
It doesn't seem hard at all to me. The Trump administration has to ask el Salvador to return him. Given that he is presently only being held in el Salvador's CECOT at our request and paid for by us - seems unlikely that they would refuse a good faith request to return him.
Should they do so (or should the Trump admin "ask" but backchannel communicate they would prefer el Salvador refuse - which sadly seems quite plausible) that would still be helpful and have consequences going forward. To wit, if our agreement with el Salvador does not permit us to seek return of people we turn over to them then it seems that Government's position in the Alien Enemy Act cases that those deportees should contest habeas claims from el Salvador is fatally undermined. Likewise the Government's position in this appeal that has assurances that el Salvador will not violate the convention against torture against the people the U.S. turns over is fatally undermined if it concedes it has not control over the deportees at all once turned over. In sum - if the DOJ confirms we can't effectively ask el Salvador for anyone to come back (even if we concede that we made a mistake in sending them) that would present a very large problem for the legality of turning people over to CECOT at all.
"seems unlikely that they would refuse a good faith request to return him."
The acting Asst. Secy of state for Latin America can send a letter I guess asking for it.
Trump can call up the president and say "just joking". Then what?
As I said in the original comment once that happens I think you have very solid evidence that people sent to el Salvador are no longer in any U.S. control - which is contrary to the position DOJ is taking in the Alien Enemies Act case.
Once the DOJ establishes it has no control over people it sends to CECOT it would make a strong case that you can't send people there (deport to el Salvador yes, deport specifically to U.S. paid for detention no). What authority does the U.S. have to request people be detained that it has no control over?
I would then expect litigation to enjoin the Trump administration from sending any more people to CECOT (or any foreign prisons)
Its also a moral outrage and should be grounds for impeachment, but I agree that won't happen so merely thinking of the plausible consequences.
You're right. It isn't a hard question at all, legally. SCOTUS gets all the easy legal questions to resolve.
Geez your honor, El Salvador said hell no. Sorry about that. We promise to do better the next 1,294,274 times we deport an illegal alien back to their home country, this year.
How is El Salvador going to know which person to sends back?
Unless they are injecting them with ID chips or something, how do they identify individuals in that big cage?
There's a technology called "fingerprints." Ever heard of it?
There may be a dumber objection to the complying with the order, but I’m having trouble thinking of one.
Yes, but I have faith that Dr. Ed will surpass his own past efforts.
Be careful what you ask for, Abrego may leave the Salvadoran Prison the same way Jamal Khashoggi "Left" the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul, in pieces.
Frank "Bring me the head of Abrego Garcia"
It is very concerning that the response to concerns that the Government is illegally detaining people is to threaten that the Government should murder them instead
The logical conclusion of Trumpism.
Roberts has ordered an administrative stay.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/040725zr_9ol1.pdf
I-ANAL, but doesn't that mean Abrego gets to continue to enjoy the luxury of Hotel Casa del El Salvador?
Like the Red Sox Fans still call Bucky (redacted) Dent,
"John (redacted) Roberts!"
Frank "Umm, Senor Garcia, actually you can't check out any time you like"
That's nice.
What's one more day in CECOT, after all?
Just another day = What's one more day in CECOT, after all?
Just wondering; what is the status of the legislation to restrict district court rulings to the district itself?
Why would you do that? Parties often act across the country or even the world.
The restriction should be that orders can only relate to the parties before the Court.
The status is currently "Performative," meaning Trump doesn't mind noise being made, but does not not want meaningful progress (think, I don't need you to investigate, just to announce the investigation. My folks will take it from there.)
Why? Because nationwide injunctions are far too valuable a tool to foreclose the possibility of future use. That is, as long as the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals exists to uphold Texas/Louisiana single-Judge District Court decision.
This is nonsense. There isn’t any negotiation involved here. We are paying the El Salvadorans to keep these people locked up. We can jolly well pay them to release them.
Maybe the administration can pay them yet more to pretend to not want to go along in order to further a Keystone Kops style charade for the benefit of the judiciary. But charades aside, the El Salvadorans are keeping these prisoners not because they themselves want to but as part of a simple for-profit commercial transaction. They can release them for the same reasons.
I still remain confounded that the best the Bush Administration had to replace Rehnquist was Roberts, Wilkinson, or Luttig. Our bench is so much deeper today.
Such a petty little person.
The legal discussion is suitable for this blog, but we can also remember that sometimes it shouldn't come to that.
If the United States wrongly sent a person to a dangerous prison, it has the moral duty, even beyond the legal duty, to try to get the person out of there. Lawyers often tell their clients that going to court is a bad choice for them to make, even if in the long run they might win. The principle applies, morally, here.
Formatting and signature bloc on the CJUS order a bit different than the usual shadow-docket sans-serif printout, no?
T.D.
Let’s say that admin legal theories are correct. The president can revoke birthright citizenship by decree. He can order that any non-citizen resident (which recently denaturalized people would presumably be) physically removed and without due process. He can send them to a foreign country and is under no legal obligation to get them back. He is paramount in his command of the executive branch and the military and can be convicted of no crime for official acts.
Why couldn’t he round people up on the theory their birthright citizenship doesn’t exist and send them to a client state and have US agents or military in those countries facilitate their extermination?
Or more bluntly: would a Holocaust-scale mass murder directed by the President actually be illegal in anyway under the theories the Trump admin is proposing and that Blackman others are endorsing?
Remember that the Holocaust was not illegal -- the Nuremberg laws authorized it.
I don’t think the administration has actually asserted that. The EO says it “shall apply only to persons who are born within the United States after 30 days from the date of this order.”
The theory is that the executive can declare that the fourteenth amendment doesn’t guarantee birthright citizenship. If that’s the case, there’s no reason it can’t work both proactively or retroactively.
Hitler in fact used a similar method. The Nuremberg laws stripped Jews of citizenship, making them legally aliens. At the outset of World War II, they were duly proclaimed enemy aliens under laws similar to our own. The Nazis took care to build their death camps in territory that was German-occupied but not legally part of Germany. They were then duly registered and deported as legally deportable enemy aliens. Everything was done according to law.
Birthright citizenship is the first step in preventing such a chain of events as applied to citizens. I think the current application of the US Alien Enemies Act is bogus because there simply isn’t any war going on or any of the other events statutorily justifying invoking the Act. But in a real war, it might in fact be possible.
At common law, upon declaration of war enemy aliens automatically became outlaws and could legally be robbed or worse by any citizen. The Alien Enemies Act was in some respects for the enemy aliens’ protection. But our Constitution permits very harsh treatment of Aliens if the President and Congress agree on it. I suspect a holocaust-style scenario could be possible.
I notice the majority finessed the question of whether alleged enemy aliens have a constitutional as distinct from merely a statutory right to contest deportation. It quoted from the government’s brief saying the right is constitutional when noting the government had conceded they had a hearing right. But the Court never itself said the right is constitutional.
To rule for Trump would give him the ability to send anyone, including citizens, to prisons in other countries and nothing could be done as long as they get them out of the US quick enough.
That is pure fascism.
The majority did say that the Administration had to give seized alleged enemy aliens notice of their right to judicial review and a reasonable amount of time to pursue it before deporting them.
Dumb leftist idealists refuse to accept that a mistake can exist that the government can't fix. Next we'll have these Caligula-wannabe district court judges ordering the government to reanimate executed prisoners.
But of course the government perfectly well can fix it. It’s just pretending it can’t
No, it's just refusing to do so because no judge has the power to order what this one ordered.
And because they don't want to, because this wasn't a "mistake", it was a deliberate action to remind the judiciary, esp Roberts and ACB, that they have NO power without the gov't's consent, and if they keep on allowing judges to violate the law (District Courts taking contact cases that only the Federal Courts of Claims have jurisdiction over, DC Courts taking cases that LoBue says must go to the court that has habeas authority), the Trump Admin will simply stop granting them consent.
And the message was received
Oh, and the judge who ruled that Garcia couldnt' be deported back to El Salvador did so on the claimed grounds that he faced gang violence if he went back.
The President of El Salvador fixed that problem, so the order is no longer valid.
Bye bye, Garcia
How do you think the President of El Salvador solved that problem?
Almost immediately, Respondents filed their response. They were ready to go.
Too bad they have such a garbage order to defend.
What they asked the judge for, "please tell the US gov't they can't pay El Salvador anything extra to hold Garcia", MIGHT ahve been within the judge's power.
But the judge was a power mad thug, and so issued an order "bring him back, period", that is not within her power.
Sucks to be them