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Pardons and Autopen Signatures: A 2024 Appellate Decision Says Pardons Don't Have to Be Signed (or Even Written) at All
[UPDATE: I note a contrary argument in an update at the end of this post.]
President Trump posted this on Truth Social:
The "Pardons" that Sleepy Joe Biden gave to the Unselect Committee of Political Thugs, and many others, are hereby declared VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT, because of the fact that they were done by Autopen. In other words, Joe Biden did not sign them but, more importantly, he did not know anything about them! The necessary Pardoning Documents were not explained to, or approved by, Biden. He knew nothing about them, and the people that did may have committed a crime. Therefore, those on the Unselect Committee, who destroyed and deleted ALL evidence obtained during their two year Witch Hunt of me, and many other innocent people, should fully understand that they are subject to investigation at the highest level. The fact is, they were probably responsible for the Documents that were signed on their behalf without the knowledge or consent of the Worst President in the History of our Country, Crooked Joe Biden!
Here's my tentative sense of the matter:
[1.] As I understand it, Presidential pardons need not be signed at all, see Rosemond v. Hudgins (4th Cir. 2024):
[A] writing is [not] required as part of the President's exercise of the clemency power. … The plain language of the Constitution imposes no such limit, broadly providing that the President "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." U.S. Const. art. II, § 2, cl. 2. The constitutional text is thus silent as to any particular form the President's clemency act must take to be effective….
No party here has provided any evidence that the English monarch was confined to exercising his clemency authority in 1787 by means of a written instrument, nor have we found any. Accordingly, no known historical basis exists for restricting the Constitution's grant of that authority to require a writing.
Based on this limited but textual and historical foundation, we readily determine that nothing in the Constitution restricts the President's exercise of the clemency power to commutations that have been rendered through a documented writing…. To be sure, as a practical matter, a writing—such as the clemency warrants President Trump signed for all other pardons and commutations granted throughout his presidency—will generally be the means of proving to a third party that the act has occurred… But such a clemency warrant or, indeed, any writing, is not required for the President to exercise this authority under the Constitution.
See also the Wheat Memorandum (apparently approved by the Attorney General John Sargent in the late 1920s), on which the Fourth Circuit relies. It thus follows that a pardon's bearing an autopen signature instead of a hand signature isn't a legal problem, since no signature (and, according to the Fourth Circuit, no writing) is constitutionally required.
[2.] When it comes to autopen signatures, the 2005 Nielsen Memorandum from President George W. Bush's Office of Legal Counsel opines that autopen signatures on bills are valid, even when they are affixed outside the President's presence (though an academic article argues for a presence requirement). But that Memorandum has to do with interpreting the express constitutional provision that the President may approve a bill by signing it: "Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated."
That requirement that doesn't appear in the text of the Pardon Clause, which simply says the President "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." If no signature and even no writing is required for the pardon, then an autopen signature is even more clearly not a problem.
[3.] Of course, something is required, and that something is presumably a statement by the President that he is pardoning someone. If (and this is a very big if) a President actually didn't make such a statement, and an assistant just affixed the President's signature to a document purporting to be a pardon without the President's authorization, then I don't see how that would be a valid pardon (at least unless it's somehow ratified by the relevant President). But that turns on a factual question about whether the President was actually involved in the creation of the pardons, not on a legal question about whether an autopen signature renders the pardon invalid.
UPDATE 3/18/2025, 3:13 pm: For a contrary view, see Andrew Ingram, Dresser Drawer Pardons: Presidential Pardons as Private Acts:
[Chief Justice] Marshall's approach to presidential pardons treated them as a kind of deed—a private act of grace—and insisted that they be understood in light of the English king's pardon power. On that view of the pardons clause, could a president issue a valid oral pardon? …
English authorities offer support for the position that a pardon must be in writing. Namely, Blackstone requires that pardons be issued under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom. Hawkins also habitually speaks of pardons from the king as pardons "under the Great Seal." This implies that pardons issued by the monarch must be in writing, elsewise there would be nothing to which he or she could affix the Great Seal.
The analogy to deeds also supports a requirement that pardons be written down. Blackstone says that "a deed is a writing sealed and delivered by the parties." Deeds are "instrument[s]" executed by private parties and must be prepared in writing and signed (or sealed) in order to be effective. Making a deed is supposed to be "the most solemn and authentic act that man can possibl[y] perform, with relation to the disposal of his property." It stands to reason that if the president issues a pardon, this deed must be executed with the requisite solemnity, and, at minimum, be made in writing.
On the other hand, the Court has unequivocally held that the "pardoning power is an enumerated power of the Constitution and that its limitations, if any, must be found in the Constitution itself." Significantly, English requirements like the use of the Great Seal were not carried over into the language of the Constitution itself. The text of the Constitution's pardons clause says nothing about the Great Seal of the United States, and no authority insists that pardon documents must have the Seal. Likewise, the nonbinding regulations devised by the Department of Justice to guide the pardon process make no mention of the Great Seal or of certification by the Secretary of State. These facts leave some room to argue that oral pardons are valid. Nonetheless, while not without plausibility, this position makes the weaker side of the argument.
Faced with an oral pardon, the courts would likely hold it invalid. Whether a defendant provided video evidence, audio recording, or witness testimony, the courts would likely decline to honor it. The courts would surely be aware of the risk of perjury when witness testimony is used to prove a pardon, especially after the death of a former president. They also would not want to tempt an unscrupulous, living ex-president to perjure himself or herself about oral pardons that never occurred. With these considerations in the back of their minds, the courts would likely seize on the English authorities that imply pardons must be put down in writing, as all other deeds must be set down on paper….
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Right, basically what I posted on the open thread.
"something is required, and that something is presumably a statement by the President that he is pardoning someone."
This raises some interesting issues. Does the statement need to be public, and if not does it need to be published to a certain number of people?
Suppose that tomorrow Biden gives a press conference saying that while he was president, he privately pardoned Alexander Vindman. Vindman comes up and says yes, this happened, I witnessed it. Pardon?
Worse, if you're allowing the autopen absent some confirmation then it could be Vindman declaring Biden pardoned him with Biden having no recollection and we're supposed to just accept it. But I guess if you're so far gone you can't sign your name...
we're supposed to just accept it
Yeah, no. That's not how court proceedings work.
Maybe I'm being an ogre here but is it too much to ask that the President of the Unites States of America not be so physically and mentally decrepit he can't muster the energy to flop his shriveled hand on a piece of paper and make the necessary motions to inscribe his name on it while knowing where he is and what he's doing?
Am I going crazy and this is a actually a completely unreasonable expectation for the 'Leader of the Free World' and 'The most qualified man to be President'? The way Eugene and the Democrats are acting toward the concept that a President should be able to sign his own name you'd think we were demanding Biden swim the English Channel.
In fairness, how many things do you think the President is asked to sign in a day? How many times can you sign your name in a row before cramps set in? (From personal experience, my limit was 50 to 100 depending in part on how well hydrated I was that day.)
The autopen is a concerning risk for abuse and fraud but fully-manual signatures are almost certainly not a reality anymore.
Ok, fine. But are these well documented outside of a possibly sketchy autopen signature? I don't care if it's a rubber stamp of Popeye as long as there's side documentation of that process and the president's approval.
Obama supposedly was the first autopen user on legislation and even he didn't rely on it as much as Biden may have. How many pieces of legislation cross the Presidents desk every day?
"fully-manual signatures are almost certainly not a reality anymore"
PKI-enabled digital signatures are a thing, and could probably be assembled in a batch. "Mr President, these are the 174 items you ordered us to prepare for your signature today, as briefed this morning. Please press your thumb here, type in your PIN."
The Constitution says the President must sign a bill for it to become law.
Yes, and ...? There's nothing in the Constitution that says it must specifically be a wet-ink signature and cannot be an electronic signature.
I think Aubrey's proposal is currently impractical but not impossible. (re: impractical - look at the IRS' or NASA's decades of computer upgrade failures. why would we expect the White House's tech staff to be any less incompetent, especially in an effort that would also require extensive collaboration with congressional tech (do they even have a single tech staff)?)
It. Does. Not. Say. Any. Such. Thing.
Article 1, Section 7 - "Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, ..."
Where, precisely, is Roger wrong, David?
You need to keep reading :
"If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law."
It becomes law even if not signed, unless the adjournment happens in the meantime (i.e. a pocket veto)
So you and David are seriously arguing that the answer to the autopen problem is to 'pocket approve' all bills and not sign any of them?
That's supposed to be an exception clause to force the president to either affirmatively sign or veto bills. Without it, the president could pocket-veto anything indefinitely.
1) There is no "autopen problem" to solve.
2) Roger S (the S apparently stands for "Judenrein") claimed that the Constitution requires the President's signature to become law. I was pointing out that, in fact, it does not.
So the President and his entire staff are incapable of separating legally significant pieces from merely ceremonial or personal? That's your defense? If you go there why even have a President when Mr Autopen holds the real authority.
Whether they can sort documents is irrelevant. You are assuming that all those "merely ceremonial or personal" signings could be moved to the autopen, missing the point that those ceremonial ones are mostly done in-person in front of a camera for their political value - objectives which cannot be accomplished via the autopen.
The authority is not and never was in the pen. The authority is in the presidential approval. That approval was traditionally documented via a wet-ink pen but that may no longer be viable given the size of government. I would prefer we shink government back to where manual processes are feasible but until that happens, exploring options is the responsible path.
That's not to say the autopen is a perfect solution. The potential for abuse is real. But simply insisting on manual processes and hand-waving away the 'size of government' problem doesn't help.
Another interesting hypothetical is Vindman says 'I was privately pardoned by Biden' after Biden dies and can no longer support or refute the claim. The answer in that case would pretty obviously be 'burden of proof on the person claiming the pardon.' Why does the burden invert when the question is whether the chief executive was involved in the pardon or whether it was fraudulently processed by subordinates? Does the question hinge entirely on the 25th amendment and formal statement (or lack thereof) of presidential infirmity?
Assuming it's a plenary power open and obvious to all, there should be no doubt.
"Uhhh, he thought me pardoned, told me it was real, but died with no other evidence than what I say."
This is not open and obvious to all. It's not that far from approving amendments. If you need to go to court, you've failed in the process of being open and obvious to all, a necessity for The People to have confidence that they are not being scammed by weasels.
Where I wonder, was this carefree standard when it came to declassification? Certain of the legal intelligentsia were almost to the point of requiring the president to go through a formal committee and review process before anything could be considered as declassified. The same with security clearances. But those restraints only apply to Republican presidents I guess. Democrats? Anything goes.
Huh, it's almost like pardons and declassification have different legal rules and sources of those rules. Weird.
Seems like EV's interpretation invites a world of trouble. Much simpler to require a manual signature, or at least a mark applied by the President himself.
Then let Congress make a law to require that.
1. I'd have no problem with that, as a matter of common sense. But...
2. Do you think that would be constitutional (since it would be a limitation on any President's pardon power, and therefore a limitation not specified in the Constitution)?
Congress has no power here. As we saw with questions about can a president be a felon, or serve while in prison, and the answer was, the qualigivation to be president are in the Constitution and if it's not there, there's no disqualification
So Trump will order the DOJ to prosecute those Biden pardoned. What will they do? Another wave of resignations?
I imagine that the first thing they would do is investigate whether or not the people purportedly pardoned were, in fact, pardoned.
Only Trump sycophants in the DOJ will take this seriously and they won't find anything. It's just more of Bannon's flood the zone with shit.
I would imagine that the burden is on the person claiming to be pardoned, no?
I will mark you down as a Trump sycophant.
Just don't mark me down late for dinner. Do you have an argument?
He'll argue with anyone about anything, but not in a format inviting actual argument.
There is nothing to argue. It's flooding the zone with shit.
Josh R 8 hours ago
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"There is nothing to argue. It's flooding the zone with shit."
Josh - We agree - you should stop flooding the zone with shit.
No, and I know you know that. Once it's entered into evidence, the burden would be on the state to show that it's invalid.
Fair enough. If the government can show it was signed by an autopen, why wouldn't that rebut the presumption of validity?
Why would it?
In the past, maybe. But there appears to be evidence that someone in the WH was autosigning documents without the express knowing consent of President Biden. At least one bill was signed that Biden believed was something else, and certain classes of people got pardons that he had said earlier he wouldn’t pardon. Oh, and he was apparently on the beach in DE(?) for one autosigned pardon.
Why would there be a presumption of validity (or regularity) with Biden? With anyone else in the WH (ok, maybe not with Woodrow Wilson towards the end of his term), maybe. Just too much evidence has come out suggesting that the WH under Joe Biden pretty much ran itself, without much, if any, direction from him.
Moreover, not only the WH, but pretty much every office of a member of Congress has long had an autopen, and the bulk of the signatures using them are not individually authorized. They are essentially on form responses to requests or other communications from outside - often from constituents. Apparently, rare is the member of Congress who insists on signing all of his responses. And note that the WH is probably worse in this regard, due to the volume of communications they receive and respond to. So, why should there be any presumption of validity (or regularity) with autosigned documents?
In any case, if there is such a presumption, it has to be rebuttable. Just as the signature on a will is presumed to be valid, and indicating informed consent, that presumption is rebuttable, and is rebutted with some regularity in the case of the elderly. And that is why wills very often have witnesses to their signings. And I would suggest that the presumption of validity (or regularity) wouldn’t be that strong with autosigning, and in this case, when rebutted, the burden of going forward would then fall on the party asserting the validity of the document (I.e. the pardon here).
About as much as Trump declassifying documents by just thinking about it. Remember that defense? Are the same people now arguing Biden cannot pardon someone just by thinking it?? Speaking it? Auto pen signing it?
Trump is just an idiot and very unprofessional as the quote in the OP makes clear. He is also massively lying. Unless you can explain how hundreds and hundreds of documents and exhibits entered into the congressional record during a massive televised days long hearing no longer exist and were 'erased.'
Look how erased they are! https://www.govinfo.gov/collection/january-6th-committee-final-report?path=/GPO/January%206th%20Committee%20Final%20Report%20and%20Supporting%20Materials%20Collection
It wasn’t by thinking about declassifying the documents, but rather, by implication, by ordering them shipped to his MAL residence.
Good. The more the better.
The Truth Social post isn't a model of clarity, but the meat of the claim seems to be that "He knew nothing about them..."
As the post says, big if true. If not, presumably someone will testify that they were directed by Biden to use the autopen to sign particular pardons.
It is kind of problematic if you have people who are not the President testifying with no physical evidence that they were directed to perform major Presidential acts such as signing bills or signing pardons.
The autopen isn't the real issue; the issue is how many of President Biden's purported official actions, including his pardons, were done without his authorization or knowledge. Virtually every single official document bearing President Biden's signature bears the identical autopen signature. (One notable exception is the one in which he announces his exit from the Presidential election race. One can almost imagine the Godfather-like scene in which he signed it.)
It is clear for that much, if not all, of his presidency, Joe Biden was non compos mentis, and many parties were either too stupid to notice or actively hid this from the public. It is one of the greatest scandals in American history.
I greatly doubt President Trump isn't going to try to indict any of the January 6 Committee. He's just throwing a small scare into them and reminding the American people that they committed crimes (as implied by their apparent needs to be pardoned for... something(?))
If Trump were AG, he would indict them. Rectifying his BS grievances is part of his DNA. And yes, it's BS that they committed crimes.
But indict them for what? An indictment must actually state a violation of some statute. I don't think Biden (or whoever was manning the autopen that day) did these officials any favors with all the pardons, which implicitly suggest, at least in the public mind, that crimes were committed that necessitated pardons.
The minions have to figure that out in order to please King Baby-man.
And yet the only stories we have of a President petulantly screaming at his AG for more and quicker indictments of his political opponent is of Joe Biden, though, in his defense, that could have just been a symptom of his dementia.
The fuck?
FD Wolf has long since jumped the shark. No one takes his posts seriously any more. Not even FD himself. You shouldn't either.
Oh, sure. That's just a new one for the MAGA mythopea.
It is clear!
"It is clear "
Totally! It's similarly clear that FD Wolf is a child molester.
Awaiting the inevitable Blackman post arguing that Biden’s pardons are void. I’ll be very surprised if he defends them or stays silent.
Also, Biden should argue he can pardon people just by thinking it.
That presumes there is thinking going on there.
And in this case, the pardonee would have to prove Biden thought it.
Biden can just say it. That works for Trump.
Biden can just say it.
Only with a teleprompter. And even then, it's 50/50.
Enough to wreck the GOP repeatedly in legislative showdowns, and in the State of the Union.
There’s going to be some long form reporting on Biden’s mental state. Before that happens, perhaps rely on evidence not partisan wishcasting.
I don't see much thinking going on in Trump's brain. It's just all reflexive striking out at his perceived enemies.
Reptilian, you might almost say.
As I said on the Monday Open Thread, what matters is that the president approved the pardon, not how the ink got to the paper. He could train his dog to sign his name, and that would suffice.
Was Biden aware of all of these pardons? I have my doubts. But we will likely never know. Until someone on the pardon list is prosecuted and raises the pardon as a defense, it's all theater.
Unless Biden is as senile as some claim, why not just have call his own press conference tomorrow and ratify the pardons and his authorization to use the auto pen? Put it to rest.
Because there is nothing to put to rest and would give credibility to Trump's bizarre ranting on social media. Better to let Trump's dumb post linger like a stale fart on a long car ride.
Biden may still not know what was done in his name. He is not the President anymore, and cannot authorize anything.
Would it be legally appropriate for Congress to subpoena Biden and Trump and have them verify under oath that every use of their signature by autopen had their approval?
Legally? Sure. Congress can do whatever the fuck it wants. I see no legal reason why it can't subpoena a past President. It would be bullshit theater, of course. But you weren't asking about that...you were only asking about the legal ability.
I assume the House or the Senate would launch some official investigation of blah, blah, blah; it would be voted on; after passage, a committee would be formed, and subpoenas would come from that investigative body.
No. What would be the authority for such a subpoena? The Constitution has been interpreted to give Congress broad subpoena powers, but they still must be in service of some legislative agenda. As these are constitutional questions, Congress can't legislate.
I think it would have to be in an impeachment proceeding. If so, yes they'd absolutely have authority.
Congress can pass amendment resolutions. They should be able to investigate the question of the pardon process because it may have the legislative agenda of whether to amend the pardon power. And it should have the authority to issue the appropriate subpoenas. While no court would agree with me, because courts hate Congress, I think they could subpoena both Trump (even as sitting president) Biden.
It’s also why I never bought the idea that Congress can’t subpoena judges. When Roberts gave that letter saying he wouldn’t talk to Congress about ethics stuff because of “separations of powers” (even though Congress has broad legislative authority over the courts). A Congress committed to its institutional role would subpoena him and say it’s considering an amendment to the constitution repealing Article III and then dare him to point to the part of the constitution that says they couldn’t pass that amendment.
Mike Johnson has already told the story of Biden not knowing he signed an executive order. Is it really beyond believable that a bunch of last-minute pardons were issued without his knowledge? it not only seems possible, but likely, especially the sweeping pardons that were floated to be under consideration by staff and the DOJ but not Biden himself.
Also, Biden was adamant that he would not pardon Hunter and yet that happened. What if Biden was actually sincere that he would not pardon Hunter under any circumstances? The only way it happens is without Joe's knowledge.
Unfortunately, he's not likely to hold a press conference tomorrow and admit he has no knowledge of these signatures...but we should at least demand he answer on the record.
Yes, Speaker Johnson has told a bunch of lies in his whorish devotion to Trump. And, if one chooses to believe everything Johnson says, then (a) One will believe the worst about Biden, and (b) one is an unmitigated fool.
(I think most people think that Biden--at the time--was absolutely sincere about not pardoning his son . . . but that subsequent events changed his mind. Honest people can differ about whether or not Biden was justified in later changing his mind and giving the pardon. But not too many people I know think that Biden was lying at the time, when he gave that full-throated, "No way, no how!")
It's believable, I suppose. The reporting on Biden's administration and his aging has yet to come out.
But no one has provided any evidence; everyone is just talking shit.
The Nielsen Memo has a reference to "M. Edward Whelan III," (Ed Whelan). The longer memo takes thirty pages. Seems a bit much.
Amazing.
* This was a nice thoughtful post.
* The comments started out on track, by both sides, with good thoughtful arguments.
* And then the anti-Trump crowd roared in with insults and derailed the comments.
My only real wonder about this whole kerfuffle was how many would ignore the actual core question of whether Biden was aware of what he was purportedly signing. I expected TDS from both sides right from the start.
And about the pardons themselves, my only legal wonder is how anyone can be pardoned for incidents which have never been public, investigated, charged, tried, or convicted. Ford's pardon of Nixon always seemed flaky to me for the same reason, but at least it was somewhat narrow, unlike "Everything since 2014". That seems like an actual legal question, but IANAL and there's too much TDS going on in the comments to ever get any good discussion going.
You raise a good point. The validity of "general pardons", those that purport to pardon any and all unspecified crimes of a party, has never been addressed by a court, so it is an open question, but there is at least some historical and legal precedent to suggest they may not be valid. At the time of the Founding, and for several centuries prior, the King of Great Britain did not have such a power, for the very good reason of preventing the King from inadvertently pardoning some crime of which he was not aware. One American case that touched upon this subject was Stetler's Case, 22 Fed. Cas. 1314 (C.C.E.D. Pa. 1852) (No. 13,380), which involved a pardon from President Filmore:
One of the contentions in the case was that this was an invalid general pardon because, while the particulars of the offense were listed in the preamble, they were not listed in the actual body of the pardon. To this, the court said:
Id. at 1315 (citation omitted).
Thanks! That's an interesting way to do things.
As far as I know, the argument that a pardon does not have to be in writing contradicts 237 years of practice where it appears that every single pardon ever granted to anyone has, in fact, been in writing.
Given what appears to be a 200-year unbroken executive branch practice and silence in the text of the Constitution, I think the much better interpretation is that a writing is required in any situation in which that is feasible.
Mr. Volokh argues that the alternative is just a matter of evidence. But a matter of evidence is a big deal. A President may end up dead, incompetent to testify, or lack credibility due to memory when the issue of a verbal pardon came up.
There is also no reason to tolerate an autopen for legislation or pardons, absent a severe physical disability that prevents the President from physically signing.
The OLC opinion endorsing an autopen contradicts hundreds of years of previous practice, as it acknowledges:
"In reaching our conclusion, we recognize that from the Founding to the present day, the President has always signed bills by personally affixing his signature to them." (Bold added.)
The failure of Biden to sign these pardons creates the potential for the present controversy. As the OLC opinion makes clear, signing aside, the President is still the one that must actually make the decision. The decision itself cannot be delegated.
A signature by the President is evidence of his having made a decision that survives memory, disability, or death. The OLC memo was an unnecessary innovation which not only contradicts all previous practice, but has probably contributed to the current mischief.
And for no good reason.
The decision itself cannot be delegated. That is the key point. The President signs a lot of documents, but probably most of them can be delegated. Eg, letters to constituents can be delegated. But he cannot delegate approving Congress laws and issuing pardons.
You are mixing together bills and pardons, which are distinct concepts, and also mixing together personal preferences with law, which are also distinct concepts.
If a pardon isn’t written, then what do you bring into court to get charges dismissed? It’s a proof problem, and a written, signed, pardon goes a long way in establishing the pertinent fact that a pardon had been issued.
The pardon power of the POTUS is absolute. I don't see how Congress or SCOTUS could change that; they can't. Only way to change that is via Constitutional amendment.
Was Pres Biden mentally cognizant of the thousands of pardons and the reasoning. No, it is clear he was not. So what. What actually happened here?
A bunch of people got a one-time 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card. Is the Republic threatened by this?
I think the Republic would suffer a lot more screwing around with the pardon power of the POTUS then quibble over his pardons.
Maybe next time not actively cover up the fact the POTUS is cognitively deficient. That was the 'original sin' here. And people should be held accountable for that covering up, it endangered us all.
That's the real problem all right. Trump alludes to it, but I doubt it could ever be proven, and no remedy is possible. You can't undo four years worth of Presidency. If you tried to start with undoing the pardons, someone's going to complaint about his last executive orders, then the previous ones, most recent bill signings, and so on. The Supreme Court won't touch it.
Commenter_XY 2 hours ago
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"Was Pres Biden mentally cognizant of the thousands of pardons and the reasoning. No, it is clear he was not. So what. What actually happened here?"
Cxy - I agree with your point - Biden very likely was barely cognizant of any of his actions. Lacking mental capacity would likely void any actions under applicable state law. That creates the question of: A - how does lack of capacity affect his actions as president, do the general rules of capacity to engage in a contract play a part in determining his actions as president.
B- Getting a person declared incompetent or lacking capacity under applicable state law is nearly impossible, especially after the fact for prior actions.
So the pardon power of the President is absolute and available for use by the cabinet, staff , family and friends? That is what you're really arguing for because if the President is not aware of what he's signing then it is not his will or desire being carried out but that of those around him.
Seriously, how hard is it to have video evidence these days.
No, that is a bad summary. What he's saying is that in reality, in a pragmatic sense, nothing can be done about this. It cannot be proven and no correction is possible.
Somewhat disagree. The fact of a pardon has to be established, in order for it to be effective. I see it being in two parts here.
First and foremost, there is a presumption of validity/regularity. A hand signed written pardon probably has a decent presumption of validity. But the presumption is rebuttable. Anyone in the WH could have used an autopen to sign those pardons. Is there evidence that the autopen was utilized in the Biden WH without the knowing consent of President Biden? There appears to have been. Pardons autosigned while he was out of the WH? Again, probably yes. Very possibly sufficient to rebut that presumption of regularity/validity.
If that is the case, then the burden of moving forward would presumably fall on the party attempting to assert the pardon. Which means that they would probably need some (scintella?) of evidence, above and beyond an autosigned pardon to proceed. A sworn statement by the person ordering the autosigning of the pardon that he had discussed the pardon with Biden, and he had knowingly consented to it, might be sufficient.
fwiw - there are reports that there was signing by an unauthorized aide. Granted, those reports are potentionally sketchy, though a few doj staff are pushing it, so more likely to have some validity than simply an statment from trump
I think if the question got into court the burden of proof would be on the person claiming Biden did not approve the pardon or was too "out of it" to know what he was doing. If everything appears to be in order the system likes to assume things are in order. If the document looks like a pardon and walks like a pardon and quacks like a pardon... prove to me that it isn't a pardon.
The presumption of regularity does allow some frauds to go undetected. Back in the 19th century the Supreme Court explicitly accepted this risk in the context of the enrolled bill rule.
I'm not sure that the burden of proof would be on the person claiming that Biden did not approve the pardon. If a "pardoned" person is prosecuted, he would presumably invoke the pardon to block the prosecution. But this would be in a court. You can't just assert things in court, otherwise everyone could claim to have been pardoned by the President and the proceedings would have to come to a halt while the prosecution gathered evidence to prove that no pardon had been issued.
I'm not sure why a claim of having been pardoned would not be treated as an affirmative defense subject to the normal rule that a person claiming an affirmative defense bears the burden of proof. How would a pardoned person, in the ordinary course of things, prove that he was pardoned? Presumably, he would have received a document indicating that he had been pardoned, and he would bring that to court as proof. If the document can be authenticated by the usual means (such as through authentication of the signature, or otherwise, consistent with the Federal Rules of Evidence), that would ordinarily be enough. But a document signed by an Auto-Pen is somewhat different. Wouldn't there have to be some competent evidence that the Auto-Pen signature was in fact approved by the President. It should be enough that someone with first-hand knowledge of the process (not necessarily the president) testifies on the basis of first-hand knowledge that the president authorized that pardon to issue in his name. Why wouldn't it require at least that?
Typically, a signed pardon would be more than sufficient to establish the pardon. There is a (rebuttable) presumption of regularity/accuracy. But it is possible that that presumption could be rebutted by evidence that some documents autosigned with Biden’s signature lacked his informed consent. In that case, I expect that the burden of going forward would then be on the party attempting to assert the pardon.
Pundit, "But a President can not pardon himself."
Trump, "Pardon me. I disagree."