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Some Family And Immigration Law Questions About Birthright Citizenship
One virtue of birthright citizenship is simplicity. A child born in the United State is a citizen, and the government does not need to make any inquiries about either parent.
But let's assume, for argument's sake, that the Constitution does not provide for birthright citizenship in all cases. A host of questions would be raised that do not have simple answers.
First, let's start with a question under current law. The example that everyone seems to agree with is that the child of an ambassador is not a birthright citizen. The answer is a simple no, right? Not so fast. What happens if an ambassador has a child with a U.S. citizen? Would that child then be a citizen? In other words, does the "exception" to birthright citizenship only apply if both the father and mother were part of a diplomatic mission from abroad?
During debates over the Fourteenth Amendment, the status of diplomats was often discussed. But I suspect it was assumed that an ambassador would be married, if at all, to a woman from his home country. Many states had prohibitions on miscegenation, which would further restrict the ability of some ambassadors to marry American women. Certainly diplomats have fathered children with American women over the years. Were those kids citizens at birth? A child born to an unmarried couple would generally be considered illegitimate, or a bastard. Would a bastard receive birthright citizenship if his mother was a citizen and his father was an ambassador?
Second, moving away from the ambassador example, how would citizenship work if one parent was a citizen and the second parent was not a citizen. Morales-Santana held that Congress could not apply one set of rules when the mother was a citizen and another set of rules when the father was a citizen. Such disparate treatment, Justice Ginsburg found, violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fifth Amendment (even if such a provision of the Constitution actually existed.) But my question is a bit different. In the absence of any statutory implementing legislation, how would the Citizenship Clause apply to a child with one parent who is a citizen and one parent who is not a citizen? I don't think there is a clean answer. I suspect people in the 1860s would have presumed that a person who was not a citizen would marry someone who was of the same status but I am confident there were exceptions.
Third, assuming that the Fourteenth Amendment does not grant birthright citizenship, what would happen to the child of an illegal alien who was granted some form of statutory lawful presence, such as DACA? Would that statutory grant of temporary protection overcome the presumption against birthright citizenship for the child of an otherwise removable person?
Fourth, would the child of a person seeking asylum be eligible for birthright citizenship? Scholars who argue against birthright citizenship focus on concepts like loyalty and allegiance. But a person seeking asylum is affirmatively rejecting an allegiance to his home nation. Indeed, the asylum applicant fears that if he returns to his home country, he would be subject to persecution. Would a claim of asylum provide the requisite allegiance to justify birthright citizenship.
Fifth, how would birthright citizenship interact with surrogacy? Is citizenship determined based on the status of the mother who carries the child to term? Or the woman who donated the egg? The man who donated the sperm? And so on. I'm sure other countries that lack birthright citizenship have considered these questions.
These questions bring me back to the early days of the DAPA litigation. In December 2014, I wrote:
In the run-up to NFIB v. Sebelius, health care lawyers suddenly had to become experts in constitutional law, and constitutional lawyers had to become experts in health care law. My sense (from personal experience) is that with rare exception, neither group fully succeeded. There is a similar dynamic now with the immigration executive action. Immigration lawyers are being asked to opine on the scope of the President's duty to take care that the laws are faithfully executed, and constitutional lawyers are being asked to weigh in on the complicated immigration code. At this point, there is still quite a gap between the two.
I don't profess to be an expert on immigration law, but I have written extensively about the intricacies of the INA over the years--something that not all constitutional law scholars have bothered to learn. That background has helped me see current debates over birthright citizenship a bit more cleanly.
Yet, I find that many scholars writing on the constitutional issues underlying birthright citizenship have not fully considered the technical issues of immigration law. Conversely, scholars of immigration law have not fully considered all of the competing arguments based on constitutional law. People just assume that the side they agree with is obviously correct. I still think the correct answer is that the Fourteenth Amendment provides birthright citizenship, but I freely acknowledge there are some competing arguments and complexities.
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We get it. Not a day goes by that JD Vance isn't on TV somewhere flogging the Great Replacement Theory, and you want to get in on that, "just by asking questions".
But let's assume, for argument's sake, that the Constitution does not provide for birthright citizenship in all cases. A host of questions would be raised that do not have simple answers.
I wondered if maybe Blackman's point in that quoted sentence was that birthright citizenship makes the answers to those questions much simpler, and for that reason, we should accept birthright citizenship.
Read in conjunction with his final paragraph, I think the answer is clearly that He thinks we should accept territorial birthright citizenship.
His use of "birthright citizenship" is a bit unclear.
There are actually two different forms of birthright citizenship. Jus sanguinis (blood/parentage) and jus soli (territorial, where the birth occurred).
The vast majority of North and South American nations (including the US) use both. Europe, Asia and Africa mostly use jus sanguinis exclusively.
However Blackman appears to be using "birthright citizenship" to refer exclusively to jus soli. His meaning is clear, but this usage is technically wrong.
Right, which is a practical argument, not a constitutional argument. The simple question is "what does the constitution require?" It's irrelevant if the answer makes things more difficult. In fact, that is the whole of the reason of the Bill of Rights?
But I still don't think this is a hard problem. Child of US Citizen? Citizen. Child of no US Citizen, no Citizen.
"But I still don't think this is a hard problem. Child of US Citizen? Citizen. Child of no US Citizen, no Citizen."
The explicit intent of the citizenship clause of 14A was to change the second half of that.
For a sane and sober explanation of Great Replacement Theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDQYLcB3h8
“But let's assume, for argument's sake, that the Constitution does not provide for birthright citizenship in all cases. A host of questions would be raised that do not have simple answers.”
O.K. But it does. So in fact the answers are simple. And people who say otherwise shouldn’t be listened to.
Strange post.
But it
(“DOESN’T”)
See, my “Capital letters, Quotated, In Parantheses (HT A Guthrie)
“Trumps” (get it?)
Your lame ass Italics,
Since you seem a little Dull, I’ll draw you a Diaphragm,
Gratuitous Assertions can be just as Gratuitously rejected
Frank
That’s
(“Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur and Petitio Principii”)
If I’m going to go all Latin Mid-Evil on your Ass
Frank
"O.K. But it does. So in fact the answers are simple."
In fact, the answers are not always simple even reading the 14A citizenship clause as broadly as possible. No mater what interpretation you use, there will be complicated edge cases.
Consider his hypothetical presented by Blackman, of a foreign diplomat having a child with a US citizen. Does 14A's citizenship clause apply in this case or not?
What if it's a diplomat having a child in the US where the other parent is neither a US citizen nor part of any diplomatic mission? Does the diplomat parent mean the 14A citizenship clause does not apply? Does the non-diplomat parent mean that it does apply?
Note: I favor the traditional broad reading of the 14A citizenship clause.
When a child with one parent being a diplomat actually gets born, and when it becomes an issue, we can talk about it. But we know what Josh’s real agenda is here.
Perhaps you should read his last paragraph over.
" I still think the correct answer is that the Fourteenth Amendment provides birthright citizenship"
Those are Blackman's words.
He is not supporting the Trump admin's position on this issue. His agenda seems to not be what you think it is.
Okay but it _doesn't_. So in fact the answers are simple. And people who say otherwise shouldn’t be listened to.
Strange comment.
Other countries don't have birthright citizenship.
What do THEY do???
Some do, some don't. Many countries don't have it as part of their constitutions. The US does.
Says you
SRG2 -- you concede that some countries don't have it.
What do they do????
Nothing.. A baby born there of noncitizens is is not a citizen. Simple. We could have that in the US, but for the 14th amendment.
Right, it's actually not hard ha.
"Concede" is an odd word to use here.
Many countries go on the nationality of parents. Others go on the basis of place of birth, It can get messy.
Some countries, like Britain, have layers of nationality. I was born in Gibraltar, so am British by birth, and any kids I might have, if they were not born in Britain or Gibraltar, would be British by descent. One of my brothers, who has an American wife, was born in Germany, and so is British only by descent, meaning that his children are not British as they were not born in the UK or Gibraltar.
It is possible for someone to be stateless at birth, when their country of birth doesn't have birth citizenship and their parents have a nationality status that doesn't transmit their nationality to their child.
Look up jus soli and jus sanguinis for more exciting information.
All countries have birthright citizenship in some form.
Birthright citizenship takes two forms, one of which Blackman ignores.
The first is Jus Sanguinis. Citizenship is inherited from the parents at birth. I am not aware of any nations that do not use Jus Sanguinis. Yes the US uses it too. There are some exceptions, but generally, children born abroad to US citizen parents are automatically US citizens.
The second is Jus Soli. This is the territorial birthright citizenship mandated in the US by 14A. The vast majority of countries in the Americas use some form of Jus Soli. Only a handful of countries out side of the Americas use it.
Don't have a proud nation?
Contra Trump, other countries do have birthright citizenship.
Compared to the flagrant Trump-sycophancy that usually characterizes Blackman's posts here, this article is surprisingly normal. The sycophant position would be to argue against birthright citizenship since that's obviously Trump's position.
Blackman is right that all these little edge cases (ambassadors having children with citizens, etc.) need to be resolved, but that's what courts are for. I very much doubt the framers of the 14th amendment thought too much about details like ambassadors having children out of wedlock with American citizens. Their main concern was to ensure that the freed slaves were citizens (and so, as Ilya Somin has pointed out, any interpretation that would NOT have granted the slaves citizenship must be rejected). While they did consider other implications, it would be unreasonable to think that they covered ALL of them, especially those that, by the standards of the time, would have been immoral, or which didn't even exist at the time, such as surrogacy.
One of the things I find annoying about Constitutional discussions is that people (particularly legal scholars of a textualist bent) often try to interpret the Constitution as if it were a precise and rigorous logical statement like a computer program. That may be an ideal to which legislators should aspire, but they rarely if ever achieve it. The intent behind a law, to the extent that it can be known through contemporaneous documentation, always needs to be given serious consideration in resolving any ambiguities or when applying the law to a case that may not have been explicitly considered at the time, or may not even have existed at the time.
1867 was in the midst of a wave of immigration from Ireland.
I'm damn sure that the 14th Amendment was not intended to permit these Irish immigrants to bypass the immigration protocol by dropping an anchor baby.
Well... I think all of those babies became citizens at birth. If there is evidence to the contrary, please provide it.
Again: "anchor baby" isn't a thing; it's just some rhetoric some racist talk radio callers came up with. And it doesn't "bypass" anything at all. But the 14th amendment absolutely was intended to make the children of those Irish immigrants citizens; the people who wrote it expressly said so.
I suppose one could point out that (unlike those coming in today) the Irish were white and English speaking. Some people would actually consider that a valid distinction.
Just in passing, I read a few days ago an article about the potato famine and its effects. One mentioned was that Irish emigrants were concentrated among the poorest, and that those tended disproportionately to be Gaelic speakers. With the result that the potato famine left Ireland a more Anglophone nation than it had been previously.
I thought that was notable and interesting, because I had not encountered any suggestion that Irish immigrants to America tended to be anything but English speakers.
Surprising to me. I was under the impression that by the time of the famine Gaelic was a dying language, with attempts to revive it later in the century.
See this article
https://nyirishhistory.us/article/the-hidden-gaeltacht-in-old-new-york-nineteenth-century-preaching-in-the-irish-language/
on Gaelic in NYC. It starts with an 1851 survey of Ireland showing only 5% of the population being monoglot Gaelic.
Well . . . they learned English quick enough in New York. And most of them seemed to be bilingual off the boat.
I have traces of a Maine Penobscot Bay accent and can do the rest if I need to. Someone from Ireland said it sounded like Gaelic.
But have you never heard of "Irish Catholic Need Not Apply"?
.
You’re confusing the offspring of lawful permanent residents with anchor babies. That’s because you’re an ignorant troll crazy Dave.
"Lawful permanent resident" is a recent legal category that has nothing to do with the constitution. "Anchor baby" isn't a thing at all.
I agree it's a normal post raising questions that ought to be considered by people who want to restrict citizenship. A little thought now can prevent a lot of litigation later.
The question is "Who cares?"
Citizenship from birth is conferred by statute. Said statute has been interpreted very broadly by the country, and not just the State Department. People have become officers in the military, required to register for the draft, prosecuted for crimes only citizens can commit, summonsed as jurors and - quintessentially for our purposes - registered to vote. Every branch of the federal government and every state have adhered to an expansive reading of the law. It is hard to imagine a legal issue being more purely liquidated than this.
It is possible to argue that the constitutional question is not as well settled. However, if the constitution has been incorrectly liquidated, there is a strong argument that it should be reinterpreted rather than amended. But if a statute has been liquidated incorrectly, the proper approach is to pass a new statute.
Every categorization has borderline cases. Both claiming the categorization system is worthless because it has borderline cases, and using the borderline cases as either a source of endless fascination or as a sort of intelligence test to see if one is smart enough to get them “right,” are equally fallacious examples of rhetoric and faux-logic displacing genuine logic.
How to resolve the borderline cases is often arbitrary. Their existence is simply no big deal, a perfectly ordinary part of life. They can often be regarded as random. Flipping a coin is often as good a method of resolving them - as smart a method - as any. Displays of intellectual virtuosity in arguing either way are often simply wasted.
So of course each of the exception categories gives rise to borderline cases. Each and every one. For example, if a baby is born on the gangplank of a foreign-flagged ship in port, is it born on the ship or on American land? What if half the baby is over water and half over land? Such cases aren’t very difficult to think of. They do not invalidate the categories in any way. Nor do complicated arguments about how to resolve them benefit anyone, except the lawyers of the litigants in borderline cases..
An excellent point. And, since your approach resolves 99.999999% of cases, it makes no one in the talk radio world happy. 🙂
No simple answers? Are there always simple answers to 1st amendment questions. Be a lot easier if the government could just censor and suppress all that nasty "hate" speech and "misinformation." Ok there might be some further questions to be answered in practice. So what?
And, just curious, how many foreign ambassadors are married to US citizens? Do any have children? If the answer is zero, get new frigging hypothetical.
Birthright citizenship means that citizenship is conferred upon birth, as opposed to naturalization, which happens after birth. Two main options for birthright citizenship: citizenship is conferred upon being born either (i) in the territory of the country (ius soli) or (ii) to citizen parents (ius sanguinis).
I have no doubts to say that every country in the world recognizes some form of birthright citizenship, either under ius soli, ius sanguinis, or both. Every country recognizes naturalization as well.
In the case of the United States, it is obvious that the Fourteenth Amendment deals with birthright citizenship (based on territory; ius soli) and naturalization.
If, as Blackman invites to assume for the sake of the argument, the Fourteenth Amendment did not grant birthright citizenship, then birthright citizenship (both for being born in the country or for being born to citizen parents) would depend on statutory law. So, the answer to all his 5 questions should be referred to statutory law.
For question 5, I think Blackman misses the point entirely: the carrier, the egg donor, or the sperm donor are not the child's parent. Therefore, their legal status, from a ius sanguinis perspective, is totally irrelevant.
"The example that everyone seems to agree with is that the child of an ambassador is not a birthright citizen. The answer is a simple no, right? Not so fast. What happens if an ambassador has a child with a U.S. citizen? Would that child then be a citizen?"
The simple answer is that it depends on whether or not the child has diplomatic immunity.
To be fair to Josh (I'm throwing up a little in my mouth as I type those words), it's quite as clear-cut as that. I can see a logical argument for giving that unicorn of a child the best of both worlds. From German-ambassador mom, the diplomatic immunity. From American father, the American birthright citizenship. Perhaps at age 18 (or 21) forcing that child to make a choice re citizenship. But for that one-in-one-hundred-million child? Nah, I'd cut him/her a break...even knowing it will certainly be the plot-line for a Law & Order episode some day. 🙂
I'd think you'd also have to look at the provisions of Sec 1401 (particularly 1401(e) and (g)) of the INA. To the extent that a child of a "mixed marriage" in this contract does not have birthright citizenship by virtue of being born in the US, it does not make sense that he would be worse off tan if he were born outside the US.
I thought the same, but I’m not sure it ends up being a helpful question. The problem is that article 37 of The Hague Convention in Diplomatic Relations (which, to my knowledge, is consistent with customary international law since time immemorial) says that “[t]he members of the family of a diplomatic agent forming part of his household shall, *if they are not nationals of the receiving State,* enjoy the privileges and immunities specified [in the articles describing the substance of diplomatic immunity].” So in the hypo where Ambassador A marries American Spouse S, it’s clear that S does not have immunity. But then when they have Child C, you end up with circularity between public international law (C is entitled to immunity iff C is not a citizen under local law) and the Fourteenth Amendment (C is a citizen iff C is not entitled to immunity under international law).
There’s a District Court case from 1942 (In re Thenault, 47 F. Supp. 952, D.D.C.) that finessed the issue by treating C’s birth as though it occurred “outside the United States” by virtue of A’s foreign jurisdiction. As a result, under the naturalization statute, C was entitled to citizenship through S.
That analysis seems unsatisfactory. To start with, the INA’s “in/outside the United States” language is otherwise always given a strict territorial interpretation. (Born on an Air Canada flight above Alaska on your way from Tokyo to Toronto? You win. Born to non-citizens on a United flight above the Gulf between Miami and Houston? You lose.) And it also relegates constitutional interpretation to the whims of Congress. And what if S had not accrued enough physical presence to convey citizenship outside the United States?
The policy argument seems strong to me that C should not be any *worse* off for being born to A and S within the USA, and compared to a hypothetical birth in A’s country. And yet I could also imagine canons in favor of international comity (yes to immunity, no to citizenship) or against statelessness (yes to citizenship if A would not convey his own citizenship to S).
I think I’d come out with a straightforward constitutional interpretation that the Fourteenth Amendment should be interpreted in favor of citizenship due to the framers’ generally pro-expansiveness views. So, unless international law *requires* the United States to withhold citizenship and grant immunity, we should grant citizenship.
The situation of an illegitimate child seems more straightforward. Such a child is not “part of [the diplomat’s] household” and is therefore not entitled to immunity. This is consistent with what must surely be the historical practice of granting citizenship to the progeny of unwed mothers in Washington, without further inquiry into whether the child might be some diplomat’s bastard.
I have long said that, while an examination of the ratification debates alone indicates that the ratifiers did not constitutionalize so-called birthright citizenship, the desire to have a bright line rule and avoid complexities motivates some to argue for birthright citizenship.
There's a distinction between children of Blue List and White List diplomats. The former are high list diplomats accredited by their countries to the US, the latter a miinisterial employees or functionaries. Children of Blue List diplomats born in the US do not receive birthright citizenship; children of While List diplomats do. I know this because I handled a criminal case more than 30 years ago in which a child of a Blue List diplomat applied for a US passport and claimed US citizenship. He was prosecuted for passport fraud. His assertion of citizenship I characterized as a statement of opinion, not fact, as he, a young man could not be expected to know that he was ineligible for US citizenship. Everything else on his passport application was true. The government dismissed the case.
In general i am a little perplexed about why governments prosecute a broader range of cases in which a person fills out a form truthfully but incorrectly, either due to mistaken assumption or bad advice, to access a benefit. The only harm done is that they are correctly denied the benefit. Does the state have an interest in recouping administrative time cost? Maybe, but why would this be a criminal scenario?
We've seen it a number of times in the last decade when ex-cons register to vote, erring in their interpretations of the needlessly complicated and parochial laws governing this process, are denied registration and prosecuted for their error.
I'm a non-citizen resident (legal) and i have to keep quadruple checking every government document i fill out so that i don't accidentally assert myself incorrectly. Once i got called to jury duty and freaked out that my appearance in the database of possible jurors suggests someone thinks i am a citizen.
"ex-cons register to vote, erring in their interpretations" -- yeah. In one case, the defendant argued that they tried to register as a way to find out if they're eligible or not. The judge likened that to presenting a false ID to see if it'll get accepted, but the analogy is absurd. It's unreasonable to claim you don't know your real name. It's not unreasonable to claim you don't know you eligibility to vote, as determined by arcane rules.
But the registration form doesn't simply ask, "Are you eligible to vote?" It asks a series of questions that would be well within the knowledge of the applicant in a yes/no format to be answered under penalty of perjury or false swearing. Not much different than a firearms background check.
It is rather disingenuous for one to say that he didn't remember being convicted of a felony.
Bright lines have value for decision making
Yet where the line is drawn is more important. ILLEGAL ALIENS make the law murkier by EVADING THE LAW
Children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens are not "evading the law". There is no law against being born illegally.
He should try to have most posts like this.
What if two aliens (the kind from outer space), neither of who are diplomats, flew their aircraft to the United States from a galaxy far far away, and had a child. Would that child be a USC? Yes.
What if this particular type of alien needed three parents to produce a child, also none of the three being diplomats, and they came to the U.S. and had a baby. Would that child be a USC? Yes.
Josh loves to plant seeds.
"virtue of birthright citizenship is simplicity... the government does not need to make any inquiries about either parent" -- conversely, if parents' citizenship matters, then so does grandparents' (needed to determine parents' citizenship), great-greatparents', and so on, all the way up to Mayflower. And the point isn't just simplicity for "the government" -- it's finality and security for individuals. If proof of U.S. birth does not prove citizenship, questioning and revoking citizenship would be much simpler. Officials could use the threat to punish or silence critics. They could use the current deport-first-worry-later tactics that'll get citizens stranded outside the U.S. for years. Putting people's security in their citizenship at the whim of officials is a much worse harm than birth tourism or anchor babies.
Why the Mayflower?
They weren't US citizens.
I would use either:
7/4/1776 (DOI)
3/1/1781 (Articles of Confederation ratified)
6/21/1788 (Constitution ratified)
"In other words, does the "exception" to birthright citizenship only apply if both the father and mother were part of a diplomatic mission from abroad?"
My thought on this is no. As long as the mother is also a foreign national and not a permanent resident alien, it wouldn't matter if she was officially part of the diplomatic mission or not.
It doesn't have to be so difficult. It could be a simple burden shifting regime. There could be a rebuttable presumption that a child born in the country is a citizen unless the government comes forward with some evidence suggesting non-citizen parents. Then the burden would shift to the child to prove citizenship of parents.
We could make it excessively complicated in an attempt to convince judges to throw their hands up and say to heck with it all, just do birthright citizenship, but it doesn't have to be that way.
Keep in mind that even under the current regime we still have the issue with children of diplomats and determining citizenship. That doesn't turn the whole process into a disaster.
"Certainly diplomats have fathered children with American women over the years."
Mary Wallace, sister of Vice President Henry Wallace, was married to Carl Bruggmann, Swiss Ambassador to the US during WW II. They had children, though those children were not born in the US AFAICT.
"I suspect people in the 1860s would have presumed that a person who was not a citizen would marry someone who was of the same status but I am confident there were exceptions."
Jérôme Bonaparte, Napoleon's youngest brother, came to the US in 1803. He married Baltimore socialite Elizabeth Patterson. Their son Jérôme was born in London, as the Emperor excluded his inconvenient in-law from France. (He later annulled the marriage.) The younger Jérôme returned to the US with his mother. His son Charles was US Attorney General under Teddy Roosevelt.
Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes was the son of British immigrant David Hughes and American Mary Connelly Hughes, but David did not naturalize till after Charles was born. When he ran for President in 1916, the claim was made that Charles was not a citizen at birth.