The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Case Against Deporting Immigrants for "Pro-Terrorist" Speech [Updated]
It's both unjust and unconstitutional.

The Trump Administration has promised to deport immigrants and foreign students who engage in pro-"terrorist" speech related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Yesterday, ICE arrested Palestinian activist and former Columbia student Mahmoud Khalil, and plan to deport him. To put it mildly, I have little sympathy for recent anti-Israel campus protests. Nonetheless, deporting people for engaging in anti-Israel, pro-terrorist, or pro-Hamas speech is both unconstitutional and unjust. It also risks creating a dangerous slippery slope.
The First Amendment's protection for freedom of speech, like most constitutional rights, is not limited to US citizens. The text of the First Amendment is worded as a general limitation on government power, not a form of special protection for a particular group of people, such as US citizens or permanent residents. The Supreme Court held as much in a 1945 case, where they ruled that "Freedom of speech and of press is accorded aliens residing in this country."
A standard response to this view is the idea that, even if non-citizens have a right to free speech, they don't have a constitutional right to stay in the US. Thus, deporting them for their speech doesn't violate the Constitution. But, in virtually every other context, it is clear that depriving people of a right as punishment for their speech violates the First Amendment, even if the right they lose does not itself have constitutional status. For example, there is no constitutional right to get Social Security benefits. But a law that barred critics of the President from getting those benefits would obviously violate the First Amendment. The same logic applies in the immigration context.
Nonetheless, as Eugene Volokh notes, there is some ambiguity under current precedent about the issue of whether non-citizens can be deported for speech. That ambiguity should be resolved against deportation.
There is also, tragically, a long history of speech-based restrictions on immigration and entry into the US. The Trump Administration cites 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3), which bars "Any alien who … endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization."
Such laws, too, should be ruled unconstitutional. There is no immigration-restriction exception to the First Amendment.
In addition to legal issues, there are also good moral and policy reasons to oppose deportation for speech. If freedom of speech - including speech that promotes awful viewpoints - is a fundamental human right, there is no good reason to exempt migrants or foreign students from that principle.
I would argue that freedom of movement - including across international boundaries - is also a human right, one that should not be restricted based on arbitrary circumstances of parentage and place of birth. At the very least, migrants and students should not be deported for engaging in speech that is perfectly legal for native-born citizens. As a practical matter, native-born citizens with awful views pose a much greater threat to the future of US democracy than foreign students and recent immigrants, as the former have vastly greater political influence than the latter.
Finally, speech-based immigration restrictions create dangers similar to those of other forms of government suppression of speech. Conservatives who (rightly) don't trust government to define and suppress "misinformation" on social media should also distrust its efforts to police speech by immigrants. In both cases, there is a strong incentive to target speech that goes counter to the views of those in power, or those of current political majorities. There is no reason to trust government censors more when it comes to immigrant speech than elsewhere.
The concept of speech "espousing terrorist activity" or speech promoting "support" for a "terrorist organization" is easily susceptible to abuse. In the context of the Israel-Hamas War, it is not clear whether this means 1) only speech directly defending Hamas's terrorist attacks, or also includes 2) speech supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state (which is one of Hamas's objectives in the current conflict), and 3) speech attacking Israel's conduct of the war, including claims that Israeli forces are committing war crimes. Speech in categories 2 and 3 can be seen as "supporting" Hamas by helping it achieve its objectives, even if it doesn't directly endorse the group's terrorist actions.
Speech restrictions like this are also readily susceptible to discriminatory enforcement. For example, the Trump administration is targeting "Hamas sympathizers," but not supporters of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which has resulted in atrocities comparable to those of Hamas, but on a larger scale. Those who support or justify Russian atrocities are far more aligned with the Trump Administration than those who support Hamas, and the administration acts accordingly.
There are many conflicts around the world that involve terrorism and atrocities against civilians. The government should not be allowed to selectively target immigrants and foreign students who express awful opinions about these conflicts, depending on whether their views align with those of the administration in power.
Finally, it may be worth noting that Mahmoud Khalil, the apparent first target of the administration's new policy, is not an entirely sympathetic figure. His activities may not have been limited to peaceful protest and speech. Apparently, he acted as spokesman and negotiator for protestors who illegally occupied buildings and other university property at Columbia. Such behavior is reprehensible. Nonetheless, he has not been convicted of any crime or even charged with one. And, as a green card holder, he has strong procedural rights against deportation that the administration must respect. If Khalil has committed a crime, then by all means prosecute him. But don't deport him for mere speech and protest, and don't punish or detain him without due process.
In my view, immigrants who commit crimes should be subject to the same punishment as native-born citizens who violate the same laws. They should not be subject to the severe additional punishment of deportation, merely because of morally arbitrary circumstances of parentage and place of birth. I explained the logic of that position and addressed various objections here. Most readers may not agree. But, at the very least, migrants and foreign students should not be punished for engaging in activities that are perfectly legal for natives, and indeed constitutionally protected rights.
Regardless, the administration has made clear that they intend to deport "Hamas sympathizers" generally, not just those who have engaged in criminal activity. That's pretty obviously targeting constitutionally protected speech.
UPDATE: Steve Vladeck has a helpful analysis of the legal issues involved in the Khalil case.
UPDATE 2: At the Instapundit blog, Glenn Reynolds agrees we should not deport immigrants for speech, but says "I would dispute that we are deporting immigrants for 'speech' when it involved violent protests in which buildings were seized and occupied and people were violently assaulted and harassed." As noted above, the Trump Administration has made clear they do intend to target migrants for speech. Whether that is what happened in the Khalil case is not yet clear. But it is their general policy.
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Mahmoud Khalil and all his friends are welcome to show their love and support for Judeocidal terror groups like hamas from their home country.
There are MILLIONS of people globally who would love to be here in their place, who don't support Judeocidal terror groups and share our American values.
The law is the law (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)). If you don't like the law, ask Congress to change it.
“ The concept of speech "espousing terrorist activity" or speech promoting "support" a "terrorist organization" is easily susceptible to abuse.”
The OP is talking about speech.
The United States can and should restrict immigration to those who add value for us.
Some of the criteria are obvious - non criminal, reasonable education level for adults, etc
Others may be harder to specify clearly but are also important. One of those is not allowing in people with odious views who, as members of the polity, may move politics in the direction of their views. We have no need for (and immigration law specifically excludes) Nazis, Communists, and supporters of terrorist organizations.
This runs right into Prof. Somin's slippery slope argument.
Once you start talking viewpoint, you have the unfortunate situation of the government picking allowed viewpoints for incoming citizens.
I'm not going to be this guy's buddy (at least right yet - I know plenty of former activists who have mellowed and become pretty cool to hang with).
But we've worked hard on the boundaries of where we fence off speech restrictions; lets not start making exceptions.
Slippery slope and free speech! My point exactly!
...with arm twisting corporations to censor or "flag" statements by politicians as harrassing. Beginning of the slippery slope? Nope. That's roaring down the slippery slope on a slip-n-slide.
The beginning was banning it in that whole safe spaces movement, whatever that value may have had.
Then Sarcastr0 says the arm twisting never happened.
Then I point out the 2020 Democratic debate had a whole discussion unit on what to do about harrassment in social media, and they fell all over each other in threatening section 230.
Then Sarcastr0 says the social media companies did it voluntarily.
Then, I guess what's next? The social media company heads, having had that section 230 Sword of Damoclese removed from overhead, say sure as shit they were coerced.
Communists
'member when the US stood up to expansionist dictatorial empires on principle, thwarting them through a process called "containment"?
Um. No. See, e.g., Pinochet. We castigated those dictators who espoused communism and feed dictators who did not. Realpoitik.
That second is not at all obvious.
"The OP is talking about speech."
Lots of speech is criminal. For example, characterizing a payment as reimbursement for legal fees is speech, but that will apparently support conviction on 34 felony counts, at least in awful jurisdictions within the US.
Presumably you believe that "speech attacking Israel's conduct of the war, including claims that Israeli forces are committing war crimes." is not supportive of Hamas.
Khalil is a vile piece of work and I have no sympathy for him but Somin is right. He has free speech rights and any action to deport him should be based on actual criminal activity for which he has received due process.
Mahmoud Khalil filled out rather detailed State Department forms with intrusive security questions, among them, asking his political viewpoint and whether he supports designated terror groups.
If he answered deceptively in those forms, it is perjury. The forms say that.
He doesn't have the same rights as an American citizen. Mahmoud Khalil can cheer on hamas from his home country.
His name is Mahmoud Khalil. What more do you need to know? It is unfortunate that he was permitted to marry an American citizen.
Not being a bigot I’d of course need more. We get YMMV.
I live in UAE. There are plenty of reasonable Muslim Arabs here who think Hamas are a bunch of psychotic maniacs who need to be put up against a wall and shot. UAE government instantly shuts down any hint of support for Hamas in ways that would be absolutely illegal in the US. Some kids in my son's school found that out the hard way.
Most of these people are not pro Israel, but they recognize that Israel is not going away and that UAE and the GCC need Israeli tech and probably, long term, military support against Iran including a nuclear umbrella.
So no, just having an Arab name does not make someone a terrorist supporter.
Hamas are the homicidal lunatics that even other homicidal lunatics think are crazy. So it's hardly surprising that they're unpopular even in countries where 'reasonable' public opinion would be considered rabid antisemitism by Western standards.
Except he doesn’t.
A provision of his green card is that for the first 5 years he not be an asshole. In very specific ways.
He allegedly violated that agreement, to the material detriment of citizens.
Go read 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)
Then come back and tell us whether support for terrorism includes speech or is support:
to commit an act that the actor knows, or reasonably should know, affords material support, including a safe house, transportation, communications, funds, transfer of funds or other material financial benefit, false documentation or identification, weapons (including chemical, biological, or radiological weapons), explosives, or training-
(aa) for the commission of a terrorist activity;
(bb) to any individual who the actor knows, or reasonably should know, has committed or plans to commit a terrorist activity;
(cc) to a terrorist organization described in subclause (I) or (II) of clause (vi) or to any member of such an organization; or
(dd) to a terrorist organization described in clause (vi)(III), or to any member of such an organization,
As you say, "The law is the law (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)). If you don't like the law, ask Congress to change it."
8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)(vii) seems directly applicable:
"endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization"
See https://x.com/l3v1at4an/status/1879936799633732079?t=ikBpKu59ZphSmyMZubpLIA&s=19
Does anyone understand Arabic well enough to know if the description is accurate? If so it would seem to be more than enough justification to deport Khalil.
Leftist Bernard lies, because that's what Leftists do. Go to Gaza and fight with Hamas if you feel like being a Nazi.
From Martinned to bernard, you just love calling people Nazis!
Anyone know where to find a copy of the habeas petition Khalil's lawyers have apparently filed?
Marty Lederman
@martylederman.bsky.social
His counsel have filed a habeas petition in SDNY that might provide further details, but the petition can't be downloaded.
M.K. v. Joyce, No. 1:25-cv-01935
His Counsel should be on the same deportation flight to Gaza(or maybe Damascus)
You are seriously damaged.
here are two of the filings in Khalil's case:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25556767-mahmoud-khalil-motion-to-compel-return/
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25556766-mahmoud-khalil-declaration-for-motion-to-compel/
Thank you.
Well-written motion, I hope it succeeds. That sure looks like someone at ICE knows they've already messed up.
It will be interesting to see the arrest warrant the ICE agents had. If they messed up and based the arrest on "we revoked his student visa", when he's actually a green card holder, that's not going to impress the court hearing the habeas petition.
if he obtained the green card fraudulently....
Here is a copy of the habeas petition
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25556782-mahmoud-khalil-habeas-petition/
Didn’t DB comment on of EV’s recent posts on this matter that this was just about student visa holders and not other classes of immigrants like legal permanent residents?
Things would have been a lot better if a certain Moe-hammad Atta and his 18 thieves had their asses kicked back to Germany in 2000, maybe 3,000 in New York would still be alive and hundreds of thousands of Veterans not fucked up for life (that’s a real medical term “FUFL” pronounced “Foofle”)
But a lot of you Fucks want to do the same Bullshit in You-Crane
1: if you haven’t personally participated in a Wah please STFU
2: see #1
And you don’t think there are Moe-hammed Atta Juniors, or even more? Funny how the only thing Arabs do well is fuck
Frank
Frankie 'Wounded Warrior' Drackman, America's neediest veteran. Speaking of stolen valor, Frankie, I hear your boy and fellow REMF Vance belittled the troops of Britain and France a few days ago
I'm sorry if Britain and France thought JD's description of "20 or 30,000 troops from some random Country that hasn't fought a war in 30 or 40 years" applies to them.
And speaking of Stealing Valor like Danang Dick, you're just showing you don't even know what a REMF is, (Danang Dick), not 2 peoples like me and JD who served on the frontlines in Kuwait and Iraq (in my case, the Front-Front lines, I've got the hearing loss to remember it)
Frank
“Funny how the only thing Arabs do well is fuck”
Claiming first hand knowledge?
Thank you. There are free speech and due process concerns here.
Mahmoud can exercise his free speech all he wants in Gaza, says a lot about Amurica that he’s even still alive.
I am very pro free speech.
But no country should allow a non citizen who declares they hope their legally declared enemy (such as a designated terror group) wins. That's logically absurd.
They can argue that they feel the enemy designation is incorrect. But you cannot allow non citizens to stay in your country who express they hope the country's enemies are victorious. That's insanity and I doubt one founding father would disagree.
"I am very pro free speech."
This opener always ends the same way.
Ignore everything before the "but."
I believe in free speech, but military officers may not use contemptuous words about the President.
I believe in free speech, but true threats may be punished.
I believe in free speech, but the government may enforce NDAs.
I believe in free speech, but the government can lock you up if you disclose classified information if the government gave you access to it through your government employment.
Guessing you’re a Florida fan, what’s up with your Foo-bawl, I get that Auburn wins a championship every 53 years (can’t wait for 2063!) but you’ve literally got your pick of every top HS player (thanks for Cam Newton BTW) and you haven’t won a natty since “W” was POTUS?
If anything, it seems logically absurd to be very pro-speech and want to expel people for opining about their hopes and dreams.
A fucking Terrorist whos hopes and dreams are to put me in an Oven? (I’m a Jew, I’ve already made reservations and paid in advance) I thought there was a problem with the Global Warming? You know how much CO2 this fucks exhaling into the NYC MSA?? He can do it in Gaza
When it's their hopes and dreams about going on a killing spree that won't end until everybody who'd not a member of their narrow sect is dead, I don't see the logical inconsistency.
Why wouldn't your argument lead to the conclusion that we should not allow a citizen to express their "hopes and dreams about going on a killing spree that won't end until everybody who'd not a member of their narrow sect is dead"?
Because, (And this is a point Somin is invincibly opposed to understanding.) Citizens and aliens are very different legally, and what are rights for citizens are just revokable privileges for aliens.
First, your policy argument isn’t limited, it’s just that it’s not allowed to go after citizens,
Second, calling them aliens doesn’t mean permanent residents don’t have rights including to speech and due process regarding their status.
You claim your authoritarianism is only about illegals but then here you are talking about residents. It’s so often thus with the nativist types.
Look, and I've said this before, I'm with Thomas on this: Incorporation by 'substantive' due process is bullshit. Incorporation was supposed to take place through the P&I clause, which is expressly limited to "citizens".
If you look at the Congressional debate over the 14th amendment, or just analyze the 14th amendment textually, there's no question about that. 'Substantive' due process is just a BS bit of sophistry the Court used to start selectively incorporating the Bill of Rights without overturning Slaughterhouse.
They should bite that bullet, and just overturn Slaughterhouse, and stop deliberately warping the Constitution to avoid admitting their institution did something very nasty in order to end Reconstruction.
The only constitutional rights non-citizens have in the US are to procedural due process and equal protection of the law.
And I know current precedent isn't on my side in this. It's not on Somin's, either, when he goes on and on about the federal government not having any authority to control immigration, but that doesn't stop him, does it?
Somin wants to elevate every warm body in the world to the same status as a US citizen. I don't have to pretend to agree that's a constitutionally legitimate goal.
Look, you want more state authority to go after noncitizens. We all know that.
You can write a long soapbox buncha formalist nonsense if you want, but it's not required; we know what you want and what you are.
And you've abandoned formalism for Trumpism some time ago.
No, actually, and this is one of the points where I take issue with Somin's views, I think the state already HAS sufficient authority to go after non-citizens for things that citizens can do with impunity. They don't really need any more at this point, just the will to use it.
Because we're citizens, and actually have a RIGHT to be here. And they don't, so they actually have to be on their best behavior to stay.
"You can write a long soapbox buncha formalist nonsense if you want, but" you don't really care about arguments and logic when somebody disagrees, do you?
Yes, BrettLaw.
We all know.
Your personal confidence in a more authoritarian version of the Constitution is well established at this point.
The issue is not that your arguments are bad, it's that they are not arguments.
They are axioms you insist everyone share with you.
You call it logic, everyone else sees it as ipse dixit.
I also have axioms I start from. But I don't get mad when not everyone shares them; I meet people where they are. You deligitimize everyone who isn't where you are.
This isn't "Brettlaw" in this case, it's Supreme court precedent. On his better days Somin admits his immigration related constitutional views are not mainstream, and are unlikely to ever become mainstream. This is an instance of that: Per existing precedent, the federal government already has the authority to expel non-citizen Hamas supporters.
Maybe not if it's some trivial level of "support" like an "I (heart) Genocide" bumper sticker on your car, but Khalil isn't remotely an edge case.
P&I sure is not Supreme Court precedent.
Maybe not if it's some trivial level of "support" like an "I (heart) Genocide" bumper sticker on your car, but Khalil isn't remotely an edge case.
Says the guy arguing sit-ins are enough.
This has been a very revealing set of posts from you. I knew you were nativist, but you're openly supporting the idea that there are no substantive rights due to *permanent residents*.
That's profoundly illiberal.
I'm not asking whether the law does treat citizens versus aliens. I'm asking why they should be treated differently in this context.
Because we owe tolerance to our own that we do not owe to people who are only guests, would be the simplest answer.
Green cards are a sort of probationary status on the way to citizenship, and Khalil failed his probation.
Green cards are a sort of probationary status on the way to citizenship
I'm not sure that's right. Of course probation allows abridging rights so....
Khalil failed his probation.
And not a complete discarding of due process. I knew you would get there, Brett!
Why wouldn't your argument lead to the conclusion that we should not allow a "citizen who declares they hope their legally declared enemy (such as a designated terror group) wins."?
Immigrants and visa holders promise to be on their very best behavior before they are granted permission to enter the USA. Failure to fulfill that promise is ground for expulsion.
Is that the actual language of their oath?
Wasn’t that the case before the Alien and Sedition Act? and didn’t more than one Founder argue against them?
.
I'm reserving judgment until I know the specific acts he's accused of. I realize that's a radical position. I think it's foolish to say that particular speech or acts are protected or not without knowing what they are.
I do think the process puts the government in a bad light. It still isn't clear if his permanent residency had been revoked at the time of arrest, which would make it unlawful, and shuttling him around to play jurisdictional games is a sign that the government thinks it's acting illegally. It could pan out that the government is allowed to deport him but then has to send him (and his Hamas buddies) a bundle of money for bungling the arrest.
As far as I'm concerned, an arrest or conviction is not needed to revoke a green card. Reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed should be enough for deportation.
Do you know how low a standard "reasonable suspicion" is?
Been in law enforcement for decades, even as chief of police. So yes, I do know the standard of reasonable suspicion, and probable cause. For a visitor to our country, I'm good with reasonable suspicion for deportation.
Having a Green Card (officially known as a Permanent Resident Card allows you to live and work permanently in the United States. The steps you must take to apply for a Green Card will vary depending on your individual situation.
https://www.uscis.gov/green-card
A green card holder is a certain type of "visitor," and deporting (potentially after an extended time in lock-up) them because of reasonable suspicion is problematic.
I had to check the original. Yep, it's missing a closing parens.
Not sure what you think that proves about the answer to my question (he says, cynically). Reasonable suspicion means anything more than a pure hunch.
Is there a better argument against "Birth Right Citizenship"??
I'd give Khalil the same "Consideration" the PLO gave Leon Klinghoffer in 1985.
Leon who? (you fucks) only an Amurican WW2 Veteran, trying to enjoy a vacation cruise to Egypt (I know, "Egypt"?? it's got a strange allure for us Hebrews, I've been there (not by choice) my Mom went there (by choice), I think it's like how lost Dogs find their way home no matter how fucked up a home it was.
Italy caught Klinghoffers Executioners but them them go, you know, NATO Ally, bla bla bla,
So lets put Khalil on a Slow boat to Gaza, and chunk his Ass in the Mediterranean, on the same spot they murdered Klinghoffer(Note, I'm not saying to kill Khalil, just dump him in the water, Mediterranean's just a big lake, and if he saves his breath I think a man like Khalil can manage it)
Frank "how long can you tread water?"
Professor, you've gradually become a parody of yourself.
Brett coming out in favor of going after speech.
How this libertarian keeps taking the authoritarian side every time is a marvel of our age.
Yes, he takes the Marxist anti-American position every time.
You don’t seem to know what the Marxist, or for that matter, American positions are.
Marx spoke of immigration in ways that echo Steve Bannon (“Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labor market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class. And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians”).
Meanwhile, the plaque at the Statue of Liberty used to speak to the position of America.
You mean the poem that refers to people like Mahmoud Khalil as "wretched refuse"?
That says
Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
And if the wretched refuse cause too much trouble, send them back to the land of the wretched refuse.
It's "Muddled Asses yearning to eat for free"
The poem on the Statute of Liberty was never approved by any body representing the American people nor intended to reflect any official position of the nation.
Do you think Antifa snuck onto Liberty Island in the middle of the night and installed the plaque without anyone knowing?
Given that Antifa are basically Stalinists, it's within the realm of possibility.
The free speech issue is a straw man in this case.
He appears to have aided and participated in criminal behavior ... for which he should be tried and then, if appropriate, deported.
Read the OP. It talks to this exact point.
No ... i don't see that. Free speech seems to be a big part of the article.
Also, he says silly things like "migrants and foreign students should not be punished for engaging in activities that are perfectly legal for natives, and indeed constitutionally protected rights."
Migrants and foreign students cannot (and should not) vote, run for political office, or expect to stay in the country as long as they wish - all examples of constitutionally protected rights for natives.
“ His activities may not have been limited to peaceful protest and speech. Apparently, he acted as spokesman and negotiator for protestors who illegally occupied buildings and other university property at Columbia. Such behavior is reprehensible. Nonetheless, he has not been convicted of any crime or even charged with one. And, as a green card holder, he has strong procedural rights against deportation that the administration must respect. If Khalil has committed a crime, then by all means prosecute him. But don't deport him for mere speech and protest, and don't punish or detain him without due process.”
Passive resistance is not inherently reprehensible (not sure if you are implying that), though it is illegal.
You're forcing the powers that be to use police to take you away under the eye of the people. With MLK and Gandhi, this was brutal. The goal was to not resist, so the people as a whole, who think themselves moral and good, will not like it and effect changes. You rely on the society being inherently good.
Good luck standing up for Hamas convincing The People.
As a side note, this scenario is a top What If subject, would Gandhi's passive resistence had worked vs. the Nazis? That and George Washington's trial had he failed.
And it's utter bollocks. The law does not require that a crime was committed, only that the person "endorsed or espoused terrorist activity" or "persuades others" etc.
Agreed.
And as far as I am concerned, merely wearing a shirt that says "I love Hamas" would do it.
Do you think that the particular provision of the law you cite is constitutonal?
It's the law.
Do you think that the particular provision of the law you cite is constitutional?
Professor Somin is conveniently forgetting the Supreme Court cases that are directly on point against him.
In the 1952 case Hariades v. Shannessey, the Supreme Court upheld deporting an alien for Communist Party membership against a First Amendment challenge. As the opinion says, the power to deport aliens, inherent in every sovereign state, is so committed to the political branches by our Constitution as to be largely immune from judicial inquiry.
It's Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, and Eugene noted the decision rested on the conclusion that membership in the Communist Party was unprotected for citizens.
I love this genre of people digging up cases that aren't good law, hoping that nobody will notice. (I saw someone on Twitter citing a 1A case from like 1905, triumphantly pointing out that certain speech wasn’t protected. Like, um, do you think there might have been some developments in 1A law in the last 120 years?)
But the portion holding that aliens are guests subject to US hospitality and can be deported for essentially any reason remains good law. Any statement about cotizens was dicta.
While the Bill of Rights protects aliens present in the US from criminal punishment, deportation is not in any way a criminal punishment.
That is, I disagree with Professor Volokh about the conclusion resting in any way on membership in the Communist party being prohibitable to citizens.
The conclusion rests on the entirely independent ground, also decided by the same case, that deportation is analogous to withdrawal of hospitality by a host; permission to remain in the US is a matter of grace entrusted entirely to the political branches. As such, remaining in the US does not represent a life, liberty, or property interest that an alien has any constitutional right to, and moreover, deportation decisions are, so far as the constitution is concerned (as distinct from jurisdiction and rights conferred by statute), essentially unreviewable by courts.
Well, then you should re-read the opinion. The petitioners raised several lines of attack against their deportation, and one of those lines was indeed that their activities (specifically, joining the Communist Party) were protected by the 1A. The Court rejected this on the grounds that advocacy of violence wasn't, because Dennis. But Dennis is not good law after Brandenburg.
1952 was not exactly a high point in the history of American respect for free speech.
Chisholm v. Georgia, 1793. Sovereignty rests with the people, not the state or the Feds. 11th Amendment didn't change that.
When Prof. Somin says "most readers may not agree," wouldn't it be more forthright (i) to acknowledge that many or most of the Conspirators may not agree and (ii) to engage with their argument? In particular, since some people have been deported for their political views, Bernstein argues that equality requires that opponents of Israel must also be deported for their views. It seems like the Conspirators generally love to hate those outside the Guild, but never engage with their peers.
Somin never engages with the opposing argument.
If you mean he doesn't ordinarily participate in the back-and-forth of reader comments that is certainly his prerogative, isn't it?
If you mean in the course of his OPs he doesn't give what you think is adequate time and attention to rebuttal argument, I disagree.
Sure, it's his prerogative, but he also doesn't seriously engage with opposing viewpoints in general. For instance, he'll talk about the 10th amendment in terms of non-commandeering, but I have never seen him seriously come to grips with the 10th amendment status of immigration control as a power reserved to the states, if it was not delegated to the federal government.
Did you say you are a Columbia undergrad presently, so we should assume you are more informed as to the relevant fact there than the ordinary bear (or lion)?
Did Khalil have a leadership role in the "encampment" (love that term of art) and as such participate in the planning and execution of Hamilton Hall, which should have been criminally prosecuted? (D'ya think Columbia is feeling $400M poorer for not enforcing reasonable rules rather than allowing the protesters to have their way?)
Bernstein "argue[d] that equality requires that opponents of Israel must also be deported for their views"? Please quote his exact words, because I think it highly improbable that he said anything too close to what you understood. (BTW, are you someone who aspires to law school? If so, do work on your reading comprehension. Columbia was at one time known for its rigorous core curriculum of Western Civ, but your thinking here is rather sloppy, while at the same time being pretentious.
Finally, if by "Conspirators" you mean the VC principles, they are remarkably qualified legal scholars; if by "those outside the Guild," you mean non-lawyers like yourself, you ought not feel "hated" by them or anyone else here, just respected in proportion to the quality of your contributions.
I am actually a Columbia post-bacc, but I am on the main campus taking basically undergraduate courses, so I know what is going on as well as does the usual apathetic college student. I already have a law degree (from Berkeley) and a biglaw partnership (before I retired) so your advice comes too late.
Well with that legal background (what sort of law did you practice?) I would expect you to take more care in your representation of what others have actually said. For example, can you point to where "Bernstein (has) argue(d) that equality requires that opponents of Israel must also be deported for their views." I don't think you can, because I don't think DB, or any of the other VC, would make take so foolish a position based on "equality". But please show me to be wrong, if you can.
You count yourself well-informed as to the relevant doings at Columbia (or only as well-informed as the "usual apathetic college student)? Can you tell us if Khalil was one of those who broke into Hamilton Hall and held that custodian "hostage" until the NYPD were called in and staged the anti-terrorism operation that brought that phase of the "protests" to an end? My guess would be that Khalil was well-aware the he is not himself a US citizen, though his wife is, would elect to remain offshore and let others expose themselves to the possible legal consequences of that action. If, however, he was among those who did break in, I think the case for deportation becomes a very much stronger one.
If you don't know whether Khalil was among those who broke in to Hamilton Hall, I would suggest that you may no be truly well-informed about his case and the issues it implicates.
Are you well-informed about the case of Khymani James, in particular whether he has been expelled or not for advocating the murder of "Zionists"? How about the case of Shai Davidai, who Columbia suspended on account of his zealous championing of the "Zionist" perspective there. (As Columbia contemplates the potential loss of $400,000,000.00 in federal funds, I wonder if they will reconsider their actions in Davidai's case. But if Columbia feels earnestly believes they and their administrators have been righteous all long, then let's hope they stand up for that righteousness.
"unjust" - probably.
"risk of a slippery slope" - undoubtedly.
"unconstitutional" - unclear at best.
Not every bad policy is unconstitutional. Not even every bad policy about speech.
If Trump had one ounce of balls, he'd announce on national TV that if any Biden or Obama judge dares to issue any injunction on anything involving his administration, the military will be dispatched to kidnap the judges from their homes in the middle of the night and will be disappeared.
That Hitler guy sure had balls! Definitely someone to emulate.
Any member of the military would know that not only would obeying such an order violate their oath, which is an oath of loyalty the Constitution and not to Mr. trump personally, as soon as the Trump administration is over and constitutional government returned, they would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of fhe law for kidnapping a federal judge. And if the death penalty is available, I would support pursuing it for any member of the military who abetted such behavior.
Roger Taney wrote in his diary that he fully expected Lincoln to have him thrown in prison. How is that different from this?
He was wrong?
Did he write that?
Well, it didn't happen.
The military took an oath to fight all enemies, foreign and domestic. Democrats and liberal judges are domestic enemies.
DixieTune plays the Fascist Funk!
Wait, Ilya is taking a stand AGAINST deporting someone? No way!
In my state, years ago, many property owners were aggrieved by Department of Natural Resources' (DNR) rules about conserving wetlands. It was fairly common to see large signs protesting wetlands protections using the acronym DNR, spelled out as "Damn Near Russia". A lot of what Trump and Musk are doing could be described the same way. I reckon that the USA will soon be renamed as an SSR--a Soviet Socialist Republic--with a new constitution written by the billionaires club and proofread by Putin.
“His activities may not have been limited to peaceful protest and speech. Apparently, he acted as spokesman and negotiator for protestors who illegally occupied buildings and other university property at Columbia. Such behavior is reprehensible."
I'm not going to toss out the word "reprehensible" here without there being more than he acted as a spokesman and negotiator for protests who illegally occupied buildings, which various types of protests have done as civil disobedience over our history.
If you are a Green card holder, how close or far from US citizenship are you? Are there any hurdles you will have to clear, or if you simply keep your nose clean (no legal offenses), are you in all likelihood going to be naturalized? Suppose you are mentally unstable (e.g., schizophrenic and chronically hospitalized, incapable of supporting yourself, etc.), might that bar you from being granted citizenship? Who, if anyone, will determine if you should be granted citizenship?
The State Department = Who, if anyone, will determine if you should be granted citizenship?
Once you have a green card you need to live continuously in the US for five years (three if married to a citizen). You can't get in trouble and can't leave the country without a waiver. After this you have to pass an English and civics exam. This is administered by a confirmed USCIS officer, who makes the final determination.
For details on "not getting in trouble" see the USCIS Policy Manual 12F (Good Moral Character): https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f
As to mental disorders, if an applicant has a disorder (mental or physical) that has led to harmful behavior that could recur, they're inadmissible. This happens much earlier in the process. This can be anything from violent schizophrenia to DUI. If they develop a disorder while holding a green card this does not make them removable, but associated behavior may do so.
Indeed. The notion that a green-card holder has the same rights as a citizen is bunk. They can be deported for far less than this agitator did.
Right, my wife was a green card holder for several years. You have to play the straight and narrow while you're here on one, and almost all green card holders do exactly that.
How rigorous is the review of the Green card holder's time time before final naturalization action? For example, the individual is never gainfully employed but succeeds as a cult leader? Character references required? Anything more than doesn't commit any crime?
Typically applicants have reference letters sent to USCIS (or to their attorney). The officer will check for signs of forgery or fraud. They'll often try to set up interviews with close associates like romantic or business partners, but otherwise usually work from the file if they aren't suspicious.
Officers look independently for criminal activity. They'll review bank records, travel documents, employment records, etc. for signs of unusual activity. A lot of this is with an eye for human trafficking (either as perpetrator or victim), something USCIS is particularly well-suited to spot.
A long time ago, I had a job looking at applications and verifying the licenses of lawyers that signed them. A lot of the small details get checked by clerks and these days I assume computers. (I also looked at whether applicants checked the "did you crime?" boxes, and a couple of times flagged files from applicants that claimed to have indeed committed genocide.)
"a couple of times flagged files from applicants that claimed to have indeed committed genocide"?!?!
Where did those individuals hail from? Did they amplify on those admissions, e.g., they were following orders, or it was in the service of the Fatherland, or those who were murdered deserved it, etc?
My wife worked for the federal commission charged with looking into Holocaust assets. In the course of going through documents, a receipt tumbled out which was for Zyklon gas. That was a sufficiently unsettling experience that she quit work for the rest of the day.
A nation must put up barriers to keep itself intact, and put aside the alienation. I can't pretend some stranger is a long awaited friend.
Frank
Indeed
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact."
This seems at odd with your current high-horse contempt for Europe's position on the paradox of tolerance as applied to political speech.
Yes, that is a slogan.
How much it refutes this discussion is another matter.
I don't remember pro-Russian agitators occupying buildings, disrupting schooling, attacking people, harassing Jews, etc. Maybe they were and the media was keeping it a secret? Regardless, it's not the speech that is the problem, it's the actions.
Most folks here are open to that idea, and we shall see as things are duly adjudicated.
But sit-ins have a pretty long tradition in American protest; they've been an 'arrest and jail overnight' thing. If we jump it up to deportable, that still look mighty viewpoint based.
If he did more, on his head be it.
Under the law, it is deportable.
'Hey, it's not illegal' is the last refuge of the immoral.
Simin himself conceded that a statute authorizes this thing.
And it seems it can only be ruled unconstitutional if Harisiades is overruled by SCOTUS.
'Hey, it's not illegal' is the last refuge of the immoral.
How rigorous is the review of the Green card holder's time time before final naturalization action? For example, the individual is never gainfully employed but succeeds as a cult leader? Character references required? Anything more than doesn't commit any crime?
Sit-ins have a moderately long tradition in American protest, I suppose, but it's a tradition of Americans being engaged in them.
Foreign enrollment in US colleges (Yes, apologies for all the tracking cruft, it's a FB photo, they're pretty good at blocking links with all the tracking taken out.)
The sitdowns were a 60's thing, back when virtually all college students in America WERE Americans. We don't actually have a long tradition of sit-down protest by foreign students, let alone the sort of violent protests which are actually involved here.
We also don't have a long traditions of sit-ins at Columbia by students named Mahmoud Khalil.
Your inability to see noncitizens as fully human beings continues to say a lot about what kind of libertarian you are.
I don't think this alien sees Jews as fully human. He cannot disassociate himself from the actions of the protesters since he participated in them. They have videos etc.
https://twitchy.com/samj/2025/03/11/ryan-mauro-thread-mahmoud-khalil-n2409654
This guy needs to go. Next plane.
He cannot disassociate himself from the actions of the protesters since he participated in them.
Due process doesn't include guilt by association.
Even Brett admits there are substantive due process rights for permanent residents.
It does include guilt by participation, and terroristic threats, though, which is what rloquitur alleged and linked to evidence of.
Here's the thing - we get to figure that out via due process.
You have said as much.
So quit trying to convict him via some link to twitchy.com.
Sarcastr0, you accused rloquitur of engaging in guilt by association, when he was actually accusing Khalil of being personally guilty, not merely associated with guilty people.
"He cannot disassociate himself from the actions of the protesters since he participated in them" is literally guilt by association.
Just like Gotham City needed an Enema(HT Joker) this Country needs a Cover Charge, a Dress Code, and Rules of Behavior
Frank “No Shitites, no Sunnis, no Sharia”
And the latest free-speech ruling from Europe.
Belgian author acquitted over antisemitic column, Jewish groups condemn ruling
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-845620
Among other things, the author wrote: “I get so furious that I want to ram a sharp knife through the throat of every Jew I meet.”
Yes, we need lots more of that in the US. Open borders, anyone?
This sucks, but it's speech.
You don't seem consistent.
You wrote above (but there were too many comments to slip in another), ""He cannot disassociate himself from the actions of the protesters since he participated in them" is literally guilt by association. "Guilt by association" is usually rejected because it
suggests passivity rather than actual participation in impermissible conduct, isn't that so? If Khalil participated in the actions of the protestors," why wouldn't said actions count for or against him? And if it was a fact that he participated in the seizure of Hamilton Hall, would that be relevant so the case for or against deporting him? It seems to me it would be very relevant to it. Indeed, Judge Furman might want to hold an evidentiary hearing to get at such facts.
OK -- deport Ilya and Khalil can stay -- deal?
Since "The First Amendment's protection for freedom of speech, like most constitutional rights, is not limited to US citizens." Why isn't the US government going after First Amendment violations in every country? Or every Constitutional violation that happens in other countries, since Constitutional rights apply to all people, and not just US citizens?
I am struggling mightily to figure out why someone would post something both that stupid and irrelevant to the discussion.
You're struggling, most likely, because you fail to comprehend such simple questions based on statements made directly in the article. I recommend you learn comprehension ability before commenting further, it will greatly decrease your confusion and incompetence.
The post does two things that we find sketchy.
First, it conflates "immigrants" with everyone who happens to be in the country who is not a citizen. Green card holders are permanent residents. Visa holders and those who just waltz across the border are not.
Second, it equates immigration with the right to travel. Does everyone have a right to enter any country they chose? Does the right to travel encompass temporary entry or permanent entry or both?
If the right to travel is fundamental, then where's the argument to do away with passports, visas, and all government-issued identification?
A helpful summary of the issues raised by Khalil: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgzQZTgRPbGCFspZMCqJbrBsjfGbZ
Dr Somin, you make a good point about the right to freedom of speech applying to all, not just citizens.
But perhaps the right to freedom of assembly (unfortunately) doesn't?
The First Amendment states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
So, it seems that the right of peaceful assembly is reserved for "the people" which, as I understand, the Scotus has narrowly interpreted to mean: the voting class. I.e. adult citizens minus felons.
So perhaps the US government cannot deport someone based on an opinion expressed in a FaceBook or X post, for example. But CAN deport them for participating in a protest.
Also for giving material support to Hamas. Like if they could prove that they gave even ONE CENT to Hamas. One could make it illegal for US citizens to support Hamas too and throw US citizens in jail for supporting Hamas. But that raises questions: there are many charities that provide humanitarian aid for the Palestinian people. If someone were to donate to such a charity and some of their money unknowingly ended up in the hands of Hamas, would this be considered material support? What if they asked at the time of the donation and the people taking the donation assured it was for humanitarian causes only? But it wasn't. Or what if it was but some of those humanitarian causes involved medical treatment for injured Hamas terrorists/soldiers?
Also, I noticed this the first amendment only seems to bind Congress. Congress can make no law... but can the President make an executive action restricting Freedom of Speech? As I understand, the President can do whatever he wants with executive actions unless it violates laws passed by Congress.
Likewise with ex post facto laws. Let's say someone protested in favour of Black Lives Matter, which was perfectly accepted under Biden. Could Trump make an executive order as soon as he comes into power to deport him for the protests that he participated in under Biden? That's totally Ex Post Facto. The constitution forbids Congress from passing Ex Post Facto laws. But he's not Congress, he's the President! Can the President make Ex Post Facto Exective Orders?
No, he is not being deported for his speech, but for his actions that cause harm to this country.
Again, Illlllllya is on the wrong side of this issue. Just another liberal pretending to be a libertarian.
Deporting besides being Justice is pure charity to almost all involved
CITY JOURNAL is often called the finest journal of contemporary affairs and they have nary a doubt
Mahmoud Khalil Doesn’t Deserve to Be in the U.S.
The former Columbia University student has been a ringleader of anti-Semitic activity and pro-Hamas demonstrations.
https://www.city-journal.org/article/mahmoud-khalil-arrest-columbia-deport-hamas
It is both just and constitutional.
Look at the other conservative mags
NATIONAL REVIEW
The relevant subsection ((a)(4)(C)) provides:
In general, an alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable.
This ground for deportation should work. It will not be without controversy.
AMERICAN SPECTATOR
"The debate over the arrest and detention of Mahmoud Khalil is really about the fate of Western civilization."
CITY JOURNAL
Mahmoud Khalil Doesn’t Deserve to Be in the U.S.
The former Columbia University student has been a ringleader of anti-Semitic activity and pro-Hamas demonstrations.
REASON looks real bad among non-extremist conservatives because you can find nothing wrong with him but plenty wrong with the President, police, normal people
Doesn't the very explosion of these cases tell you anything !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Judicial Coup: Radical Leftist Judges Wage All-Out War Against President Trump and the Nation — 129 Legal Challenges Filed in Two Months, MORE THAN ALL US PRESIDENTS COMBINED!
Your argument is a form of diplomatic immunity for terrorists who can pose as plain folk just giving an opinion. We know Soros hires rioters and yet I don't see you allowing them to be deported --- or him and his ilk for that matter.
I can't find anybody in my daily doings who agrees with you.
Most people just hate the guy,what he does, and the effect he has on society.