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N.H. Court Rejects Attempt to Impose Hate Crime Liability on Neo-Nazis for Hanging "Keep New England White" Sign on Overpass
The right result, I think, but I don't think the court's reasoning is quite right.
From yesterday's N.H. Supreme Court decision in Attorney General v. Hood:
[According to the State's complaints,] a group of approximately ten people associated with NSC [National Socialist Club]-131, an unincorporated association that describes itself, in part, as a "pro-white, street-oriented fraternity dedicated to raising authentic resistance to the enemies of [its] people in the New England area," gathered on a highway overpass in Portsmouth. The group hung banners, one of which read "KEEP NEW ENGLAND WHITE," from the overpass.
Shortly thereafter, officers from the Portsmouth Police Department responded to the scene and informed Hood, whom they identified as the group's leader, that the group was violating a Portsmouth municipal ordinance that prohibited hanging banners from the overpass without a permit. Hood then instructed his associates to remove the banners from the overpass, although some individuals continued to display the banners by hand. The officers interacted with the group on the overpass for approximately twenty to twenty-five minutes before the group departed. NSC-131 subsequently took credit for the episode on social media.
The State filed complaints against the defendants seeking civil penalties and injunctive relief for their alleged violation of RSA 354-B:1. The State alleged that Hood and Cullinan violated and/or conspired to violate the Act when they led or aided a group of individuals to trespass upon the property of the State of New Hampshire and the City of Portsmouth by hanging banners reading "Keep New England White" from the overpass without a permit because their conduct was "motivated by race and interfered with the lawful activities of others." The State alleged that NSC-131 violated the Act when its members developed and executed a plan to commit the aforementioned act….
N.H. Stats. 354-B:1 provides,
All persons have the right to engage in lawful activities and to exercise and enjoy the rights secured by the [constitutions and laws] without being subject to actual or threatened physical force or violence against them or any other person or by actual or threatened damage to or trespass on property when such actual or threatened conduct is motivated by race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity, or disability….
It shall be unlawful for any person to interfere or attempt to interfere with the rights secured by this chapter.
The court concluded that the state's interpretation of the Act as applying to defendants violated the New Hampshire Constitution's free speech provision:
[T]he State alleged that the defendants "trespassed upon the property of the State of New Hampshire and the City of Portsmouth when [they and other individuals] displayed banners reading 'Keep New England White' from the overpass without a permit." In objecting to Hood's motion to dismiss, the State argued that "[t]he defendant displayed a banner upon the fencing—causing a thing to enter upon land in possession of another, without any prior authorization from city or state authorities." Because the State alleged that the defendants intentionally invaded the property of another, and because "[t]he State, no less than a private owner of property, has power to preserve the property under its control for the use to which it is lawfully dedicated," we conclude that the State's complaints sufficiently alleged a civil trespass.
Nonetheless, we must next determine whether the State's proposed construction of the Act, applying the aforementioned definition of trespass, violates the defendants' constitutional rights to free speech…
Government property generally falls into three categories — traditional public forums, designated public forums, and limited public forums. Here, the trial court correctly reasoned that because "application of the Civil Rights Act requires no consideration of the relevant forum or the nature of the underlying regulations as to that forum," it applies "with equal force in traditional public fora as it does in limited or nonpublic fora." We agree with the trial court's assessment and proceed to the regulation at issue.
Government regulation of speech is content-based if a law applies to a particular type of speech because of the topic discussed or the idea or message expressed. The State argues that the Act "does not become a content or viewpoint-based action because the State relies upon a defendant's speech." Rather, it maintains that "[c]onsidering an actor's motivation to assess whether that remedy may be warranted has no impact on the person's right to freedom of speech, even when proof of motivation relies upon evidence of the person's speech, because a person's motivation has always been a proper consideration." We disagree.
The Act prohibits threatened and actual conduct only when "motivated by race, color, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity, or disability." Thus, we agree with the trial court's assessment that "[b]ecause the Civil Rights Act's additional sanctions apply only where a speaker is 'motivated by race' or another protected characteristic, it is 'content-based' in that it 'applies to … particular speech because of the topic discussed or the idea or message expressed.'"
Content-based restrictions must be narrowly tailored to serve a compelling government interest. The State asserts that the requirement that a trespass be unprivileged or otherwise unlawful functions as a limitation sufficient to prevent its construction of the Act from being unconstitutionally overbroad. We are not persuaded. The trial court determined, and we agree, that although "prohibiting or discouraging interference with the lawful rights of others by way of bias-motivated conduct (including actual trespass) is a compelling government interest," the State's construction of the Act "is overly broad and not narrowly tailored to that end because, so construed, the Civil Rights Act applies in numerous circumstances which have no relation to this interest."
The following example used by the trial court illustrates this point.
For example, a person's disability rights protest at Veteran's Park in Manchester continuing after 11 p.m. may violate the [ordinance imposing a curfew] at issue in [State v. Bailey (N.H. 2014)], even if the protestor held a good faith belief that the regulation began at midnight or that there was no such curfew. Under the broader construction of the Civil Rights Act, the protestor will have violated [the Act] through their unprivileged presence on public property motivated by 'disability,' provided the protestor sufficiently 'interferes' with the lawful rights of others in doing so. Likewise, if the person were 'motivated by … sex' to be in Veteran's Park after 11 p.m. for reasons unrelated to any political protest, the person similarly will have violated the Civil Rights Act even if they were unaware of the curfew, provided there is a sufficient showing of 'interference.'
Although regulation of the defendants' banners may serve the compelling government interests of preventing interference or attempted interference with the rights secured by the Act, this example demonstrates that it is not narrowly tailored to do so. The overbreadth of the State's construction of the Act creates an unacceptable risk of a chill on speech protected by … our State Constitution….
Our conclusion is supported by considering the vagueness concerns raised by the trial court. As the trial court explained, "reading the trespass provision to include good faith, negligent trespass would fail to provide people of ordinary intelligence a reasonable opportunity to understand what conduct the Civil Rights Act prohibits." Furthermore, "[t]he absence of a 'knowing' mental state would charge the public with maintaining an actual, encyclopedic knowledge of a potentially limitless number of existing and future regulations governing all types of public fora on all government property before engaging in otherwise protected speech." We agree that such an expectation of citizens who enter public property is not reasonable.
The court held that the statute should instead be interpreted more narrowly:
We hold that, to state a claim for a violation of the Act predicated upon actual trespass on property, the State must establish that the actor, with knowledge that he or she is not licensed or privileged to do so, enters land in the possession of another or causes a thing or a third person to do so, and that the trespass was "motivated by race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity, or disability." …
And the court held that, as so interpreted, the law didn't cover defendants:
The complaint against Hood alleged that he was not wearing a mask, "stepped forward and spoke with the officers," and identified himself as the group's leader. NSC-131 allegedly "took credit for the display of the banners" on its social media profiles. Furthermore, the group removed the banners from the overpass fence when they were apprised that they were trespassing on public property, and "[s]ome of [NSC-131's] members stood on the overpass and continued to display the banners by hand." Even when construing all reasonable inferences in the light most favorable to the State, we are not persuaded that the complaints sufficiently allege that the defendants knowingly trespassed.
This is an interesting analysis, but I'm not sure how it deals with the court's content discrimination objection: After all, under this analysis, the "disability rights protest … continuing after 11 p.m." that violates the park's nighttime closing rules may violate Rev. Stats. 354-B:1, so long as the protesters know that they are violating the rules, because it was "motivated by disability"—but, say, an anti-COVID-lockdown protest or environmentalist protest wouldn't be covered, because it wasn't "motivated by race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity, or disability." What compelling interest would support that sort of content discrimination (and likely viewpoint discrimination)?
And beyond this, it's hard to see how even a knowingly ordinance-violating hanging of the banners here would interfere with persons' "right to engage in lawful activities and to exercise and enjoy [their] rights … without being subject to … trespass on property when such … conduct is motivated by race, color, [etc.]" However upsetting "Keep New England White" might have been to non-white residents, and even if the hanging of the banner was a trespass, they weren't made "subject to" the trespass in the normal sense of the phrase, I think: If you trespass on my property, that might make me "subject to" the trespass, but not if you trespass on the city's property.
Now the statute might make more sense, and might be constitutional, if it were interpreted to include the italicized added text below:
All persons have the right to engage in lawful activities and to exercise and enjoy the rights secured by the United States and New Hampshire Constitutions and the laws of the United States and New Hampshire without being subject to actual or threatened physical force or violence against them or any other person or by actual or threatened damage to or trespass on property when such actual or threatened conduct is motivated by those persons' race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity, or disability.
This would basically be a law that forbids force, violence, or trespass targeting people because of those people's attributes, rather than because of the topic of a trespasser's speech (as in the disability rights protest). The Court has generally upheld such laws in Wisconsin v. Mitchell (1993), on the theory that they target not speech but the decision to select a crime victim based on the victim's attribute (much as, say, employment or public accommodations laws target decisions to treat someone worse because of their attributes).
If the law were read this way, it wouldn't apply to a disability rights protest that trespasses in a city park, whether or not the protesters knew they were trespassing, because they weren't trespassing in a way that was motivated by the victim's (the city's) disability. It would likewise not apply to a racist protest that trespasses on a city overpass—even knowingly trespasses—because the trespassers wouldn't be motivated by the victim's (the city's) race. On the other hand, the law would apply to someone protesting on a person's front lawn, or hanging a sign on the person's property, if the person was selected because he was disabled or black.
Alternatively, if the court believes that it can't read new words into a statute this way, and it thinks that the law therefore would cover knowingly trespassing disability rights protests in a city park—but wouldn't cover knowingly trespassing protests on other topics—then the law would have to be struck down as unconstitutional. But it seems to me that reading a knowing trespass requirement into the law just doesn't solve the First Amendment problem.
Bradford R. Stanton and William E. Gens (Gens & Stanton, P.C.) represent defendants. The ACLU of New Hampshire also filed a friend-of-the-court brief in support of defendants, which I think is generally consistent with the views I lay out above; an excerpt:
[The state's] interpretation of the Act would allow law enforcement officials to impose heightened "bias-motivated offense" penalties on anyone who trespasses while engaged in speech about race, religion, gender, or any other protected characteristic. In practice, that would mean that law enforcement officials have the power to impose heightened penalties any time someone commits even an inadvertent trespass while engaged in speech that the officials find offensive—whether the speech is by Black Lives Matter activists condemning racism by white people, pro-Palestine activists protesting the war in Gaza, or pro-Israel proponents counterprotesting. Neither the First Amendment nor the Act's legislative history support such a dramatic expansion of the Act's scope….
[T]his Court should hold RSA 354-B:1 does not apply to trespasses on public property motivated by the desire to express a message related to protected characteristics where there is no evidence of discriminatory targeting. Alternatively, this Court should hold that RSA 354-B:1 is unconstitutional applied to the facts alleged in the Complaints.
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Socialists are race-ist, big surprise.
How about just an ordinance which says that to protect public safety, no one gets to display signs of any kind, regardless of content, from highway overpasses?
Seems reasonable.
Only as long as they do it for everybody, consistently. High school students like to do it to celebrate homecoming games or graduation, for instance.
And in small towns people do it to welcome a soldier home.
Not just small towns -- I saw it done a lot with plastic cups spelling welcomes out in the chain link fences on bridges over Interstate highways.
Don’t you mean “To protect the Children!”?
(a) Because some people want to do that, and the law reflects this state of affairs? I don't know why you think you get a say on local New Hampshire ordinances. Probably the local politicians have a better idea of what their constituents want than you do! This isn't an issue of such paramount or national importance that anyone outside the immediate geographic area needs to have an opinion.
(b) This isn't about overpasses. It's about the interaction of public trespass generally and a particular NH civil rights law. The judge used an example involving a public park to illustrate this pretty clearly. You've zeroed in on the least important part of the conversation.
While they are up there trying to divert the attention of drivers, idiots drop things on high-speed highways by accident. A law to prevent that disadvantages no one, and might keep a piece of hardware from coming through my windshield at 70 mph.
Man, you're REALLY going to have a cow once you cotton on to these new-fangled distractive driving deal delivery devices known as "billboards."
The Massachusetts division of the Federal Highway Administration did have a cow over distracting billboards about 25 years ago. More recently the New York division made a rare threat to revoke highway aid over New York's official but illegal roadside self-promotion signs. There is legislation and regulation on billboard placement and distraction level. Most of it doesn't make the news.
Regulators compete with business interests over the roadside environment and neither has won a complete victory.
Some places ban billboards entirely -- four states according to https://www.scenic.org/why-scenic-conservation/billboards-and-sign-control/billboard-facts-by-state/size-limits-by-state/, and some localities in other states -- so regulators have arguably won complete victories in those places.
I see the four states are Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, and Vermont, so without taking the time to dig into it I'd suspect those prohibitions are driven by aesthetics rather than safety -- and also probably enjoy comfortable margins of support from the residents for the same reason.
Is "might" a good reason to silence disfavored speech?
You might have a point if pols didn't stand around for decades, then only applying it once irritants appear.
And yet, those state-approved highway signs on overpasses that denote upcoming exits don't pose your alleged safety risk? Why not? They "divert the attention of drivers."
You pulled the old "safety" excuse out of your ass. That's a go-to excuse for statists, NIMBYs, and overzealous issue advocates of all colors.
I don't recall state approved highway signs on overpasses that denote upcoming exits. In my experience, the only signs the state puts on overpasses say what clearance to expect. The ones to announce the exits seem to be located in advance of the overpasses.
But leave that aside. Drivers generally become familiar with permanent information signs, and thus most drivers do not get distracted all at once. Not so when a crowd suddenly appears to festoon the overpass with whatever message it wants to push.
Drivers new to an area, and looking for signage, are often notably distracted, veering in their lanes, unexpectedly changing speeds, and otherwise less than optimally in control. It helps a lot if only a few drivers can be expected to do that at any given place and time.
When I mentioned this topic, I had no expectation to turn up partisan valence. But it looks like there is some. Interesting.
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
etc, etc, etc
Am I to believe that those are surprising images to Stephen Lathrop? To him, those are unfamiliar types of signs?
Quickly, he morphs his unconsidered policy (that he would purport to have imposed upon all others), ready to bob and weave, weave and bob. Gone is the "no signs on overpasses." New rule: Only familiar signs are sufficiently safe, and therefore, permitted, on overpasses.
An "EXXON" sign would be familiar, and portend the kind of things drivers want to know on a highway. But I don't think that's what SL is envisioning. Time for another bob, another weave, another stroke of policy brilliance.
"I don't recall state approved highway signs on overpasses that denote upcoming exits."
Yes, up in T2R5
Along parts of Route 128 (I-95) in Massachusetts, there are a lot because there really isn't any other place to put them.
" might keep a piece of hardware from coming through my windshield at 70 mph."
Like a manhole cover?
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/family-caitlin-clavette-lawsuit-wrongful-death-massdot-manhole-cover-death/
Let's shred the Constitution...
You mean, like the one referred to below?
"Shortly thereafter, officers from the Portsmouth Police Department responded to the scene and informed Hood, whom they identified as the group's leader, that the group was violating a Portsmouth municipal ordinance that prohibited hanging banners from the overpass without a permit."...
Yet without that law it was fro a long time never a problem. Evil always finds a way around that crap.
I mean whats wrong with wanting to preserve an ethnic group?
If a black activist said 'Preserve blacks'. And some white guy said 'I don't care if the black race disappears' and in another instance a white guy said 'Preserve whites' and someone else said 'I don't care if the white race disappears'. Why in the first instance is the first guy a hero and the second guy a villain while in the second instance the first guy is a villain and the second guy a hero?
It fits the political agenda of the Party that's in charge. "Black Lives Matter" is heroic, "White Lives Matter" is racist.
There's a very different valance in "preserve whites[/blacks]" than in "keep New England white[/black]". The latter implies efforts to preserve local dominance by one race, rather than just lives of individuals of that race. So I think most people would not say that either "preserve whites[/blacks]" speaker would commonly be viewed as a villain, and both "keep New England white[/black]" speakers would be regarded as objectionable.
What Pichael said (for once!) but also, there's no white race. Talking about whites is necessarily exclusionary. It's like talking about people of color, rather than Blacks specifically.
Something like "Keep Little Italy Italian" would be way less problematic. People identify as Italian. No one identifies as white. I mean yes, we check the "white / caucasian" box, but it doesn't mean anything affirmative, it just means we're not a minority. That's what I mean by inherently exclusionary.
"Keep Baltimore for People of Color" would be similarly exclusionary since it implies keeping whites out, not celebrating some specific identity. Historically Black Colleges and Black Lives Matter are celebratory, but Historically Non-White Colleges and Non-White Lives Matter would be horrifically exclusionary.
To summarize, if you're going to do whataboutism, the converse of white isn't Black, it's people of color. And the converse of Black isn't white, it's Scandinavian or Dutch or Scottish or Armenian. Even Yankee would work. "Keep New England Yankee" is not at all the problem that "Keep New England White" is.
Now there is some hate speech. You hate White people so much that you want to define them out of existence.
Checking the White/Caucasian box does just mean not being a minority. It does not even mean that, as Whites are a minority in California, and only about 10% of the world population.
The above article is about people who identify as White. Why would you say that nobody does? Millions do. I do not know why you are even saying something so ridiculous, except to advance some woke agenda of blaming Whites for their existence.
When I had this conversation with Dr. Ed, he revealed that really he identifies as New England Yankee. That's certainly something to be proud of.
What about being white are you actually proud of, Roger?
Only producing 95% of modern Civilization (I’ll give George Washington Carver and his Peanut Butter and the Chinks with their General Tso’s Chicken, oh and gunpowder)
Frank
Yeah, but looking at it from that perspective, they were also mostly all Christians. So sorry, man with ugly penis.
If white is not a race/group than black is even less so. All Nonsubsaharan african groups are more closely related to each other than to blacks and blacks to each other. Panafricanism is an fairly recent invention for Africans who mostly saw each other in terms of much smaller groups and tribes and ironically originated in antiblack racism from outside European and Arab groups who wished to differentiate themselves from blacks.
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Something like "Keep Little Italy Italian" would be way less problematic. People identify as Italian. No one identifies as white. I mean yes, we check the "white / caucasian" box, but it doesn't mean anything affirmative, it just means we're not a minority. That's what I mean by inherently exclusionary.
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except even that is called racist. You're not allowed to say x country for x natives (where x is a finer grained designation) in Europe without risking severe oftentimes legal/institutional censure much greater than America even though Europe is the homeland of these groups
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"Keep Baltimore for People of Color" would be similarly exclusionary since it implies keeping whites out, not celebrating some specific identity.
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except they do use POC in a way that excludes whites and its not considered racist.
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Historically Black Colleges and Black Lives Matter are celebratory, but Historically Non-White Colleges and Non-White Lives Matter would be horrifically exclusionary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Again genetically, historically, and in pretty much all solid quantifiable factors, black is far less of a single race/ethnic group than white. So why is the former identified as one but you're not allowed to do so for whites?
That's right, Whites are more of an identifiable group than Blacks. I tried googling for why anyone would try to deny Whiteness, and I found Black academics who make their career bashing Whites, and Marxist Jews also pushing Leftist ideological extremes.
It doesn't have anything to do with how closely related people are. People in the US identify as Black based on a shared history in this country. Some people might actually identify as Somalian or something rather than (or in addition to) African-American-style Black.
None of this is black and white lol.
But yeah there's no shared white culture. There's Italian food, not white food. There's Southern food, and New England clam chowder. There's Scandinavian food, and Irish Stew and Scotch Eggs. There are Quakers and Mormons, Armenians and Ukranians. None of those groups have any shared culture at all. Nothing that identifies them with each other.
So no. If you say you identify as white it really just means you're being defensive and angry, like people who identify as atheists. There's nothing actually substantive about being white or atheist, it's just a way to signal that you're not one of them.
Whites also have a shared history in the USA. I happen to enjoy White food, music, sports, art, science, math, government, literature, movies, culture, etc. If you don't, that's fine, but why denigrate those who do?
Your analogy to atheists being defensive and angry is just weird. Atheists are not defensive and angry. If you define atheists as those not believing in God, then they don't have much else in common. If you look at atheists who attend atheist organization meetings, then they have a few more things in common.
Whites are not defined as people lacking something. Racially they are one of the three major races of the Earth. All three races exist.
I said people who identify as atheists (and white) are defensive and angry. Obviously there are people who are atheists (and white), and they probably would even describe themselves that way. But there's nothing there to identify with.
If you're going through life as a proud atheist, what does that mean? It means you're defining yourself in terms of someone else. "My core belief is that whatever your core belief is is wrong" isn't really a coherent worldview... unless you're an inflamed asshole maybe. Get your own beliefs, atheist, don't define yourself as against someone else. Maybe you're a humanist. Maybe you're an observationalist. But you can't reasonably be just an atheist.
Identifying yourself as white has the same problems. Let's look at your examples. As far as I can tell, you're proud of American and Western culture. That's fine, but then just say that. The thing is, American and Western cultures aren't white-only. By using the term "white" to mean "American and Western culture," you're just being racist, trying to exclude other races that identify just as much with American and Western culture as you do. Haven't you seen Hamilton?
When I think of people identifying as atheist, I think of people like Richard Dawkins. His core belief is not just that everyone else is wrong. He has his own set of beliefs, and is not particularly defensive or angry.
I do not get why you think it is okay to have all these other groups, such as American, Swedish, Mormon, Black, but not White. Sure, defining a group might be seen as excluding those not in the group, but you could say that about any group. If I said I liked Western culture, you might complain that I am excluding Chinese contributions.
Western culture means something. You can point to things about Western culture that you identify with.
"White" has no such meaning. I asked you what you identified with and you said {among other things} "white art." What white art? What makes it uniquely white? You haven't been able to answer that.
Like I said, Dr. Ed revealed that he identified with New England history and culture, which yes is predominately white. But to call it "white" would be way too broad...
the vast majority of white people have no connection to New England. Yankee is a more accurate term.
What's yours?
Randal, "White" is an identity and nothing else, much like (small 'l') liberal means holding the values of the Western Christian Liberal Enlightenment -- and this includes the Jewish state of Israel.
With 250 years of people quietly changing their names and marrying into the White WASP culture, it's "White" only in identity. There is a lot of Spanish blood (from pirates), a lot of Black blood, a lot of Indian blood -- it's an identity and not race.
OTOH, freckles are a decidedly Irish trait -- and Blacks with freckles didn't get their freckles from Africa...
Randal, are you Black or Jewish? They are the only ones with this sort of hostility to White culture.
There's no such thing as white culture. You have yet to name a single aspect of white culture. That's the proof.
I can't have any hostility to something that doesn't exist.
Your perception of hostility is the only reason you're so driven to hang on to being "White." As I said, it's defensiveness and anger, nothing more.
Randal is curiously a splitter when it comes to white culture but a lumper when it comes to everyone else's culture.
It isn't curious at all. I'm making an observation. No one has named a single aspect of "White culture." What reason do I have to believe it exists?
I know lots of things about Black culture (in America). I'm white, but I don't feel like I have any cultural leanings which are generally shared by white people across the country but not anyone else. Do you? What?
The closest thing I can think of is the book "Stuff White People Like" that came out a few years ago. It's pretty funny, with a long list of things like "Living by the Water." But I don't feel like they add up to a culture. How white-specific is liking water, really?
So what cultural leanings are shared by Black people but no one else?
I guess your argument is that some non-whites have adopted White culture so it is not White culture anymore. Did Chinese food stop being Chinese culture when White people started eating it?
So what cultural leanings are shared by Black people but no one else?
In America, Blacks have a relatively unique history of being slaves and being victims of Jim Crow and other race-based oppression, which resulted in distinct cultural developments that persist to this day, such as blues and soul food. In other words, you can trace Black culture to specifically racial origins.
Did Chinese food stop being Chinese culture when White people started eating it?
Of course not. Chinese culture comes, as you may know, from China, which has a long national history and culture of its own. Again, there's a very obvious reason that it's understood to be Chinese in origin.
I guess your argument is that some non-whites have adopted White culture so it is not White culture anymore.
No, that's not the argument. The argument is that the things you want to attribute to "White culture" have nothing to do with race. They don't trace back to a shared experience based on race like Black culture in America does. To the extent they trace back to a national culture, it's American culture, not "White culture."
This is just you being racist, trying to somehow claim America and Western culture for white people, even though the culture has no racial basis. It's pretty gross.
99% of American and Western culture was created by White people, for White people. That is just a historical fact, even if you think it is gross.
It is true that Blacks identify with their race much more than Whites. But that is not because Whites are racist.
It doesn't matter that American and Western culture was created by white people (to the extent that's even true). A Black guy invented the Super Soaker, does that mean Super Soakers are part of Black culture? No, there's no racial valence there. Same with all your "White culture" stuff. There's nothing white about any of it. You're just racist.
Name something actually white and you win. You haven't been able to.
None of this is black and white lol.
This is literally is about being black and about being white.
except they do use POC in a way that excludes whites and its not considered racist.
This is an interesting point that deserves a separate reply.
I don't usually see POC used that way. To the extent that it is, let's call it out!
Although white is the inverse of POC, they're not symmetric. At least in this country, "white" means part of the in group and "person of color" means part of the out group. It's like "straight" and "queer" but for race.
In general -- not always but that's a different story -- the out group wants to become part of the in group. That's how you get people like Pete Buttigieg, who's gay but doesn't consider himself queer, or Enrique Tarrio, the Afro-Cuban leader of the white-supremacist Proud Boys.
So most of the conversations about POC really center around the disparity between white and non-white, and what non-white people can do to become part of the in group. That's a conversation that can be had without necessarily being racist.
Buttigieg wouldn't have taken paternity leave if he'd wanted to fit in, and Proud Boys are more alt-Right neo-fascist anti-feminists than anything else.
I have enough problems with them without falsely accusing them of being White Supremacists per se.
How about "Keep Massachusetts WASP."
I mean, WASP is pretty outdated, but if we give it its sort of early-mid 20th century meaning, Keep Massachusetts WASP is roughly equivalent to something like Keep Harlem Black. I'm not a fan of that kind of tribalism, but I don't think either is hateful or racist the way Keep New England White is.
I thought about using that as a hypo in my earlier comment, and decided to skip it. I think "keep New England WASP" is morally objectionable because it endorses dominance by an even narrower group than "keep New England white". In contrast, "keep New England Protestant" is much less obvious to me, largely because (a) people can convert religion, notwithstanding its protected-class status under US laws, and (b) there's less history _in the US_ of strife over that, notwithstanding various European wars and other strife like Irish/UK conflicts.
Dominance, or character? The difficult balance with a melting pot is to make it hot enough to break down cultural barriers but not so hot that the cultures themselves burn away. I like the example of General Tso's Chicken. which is both canonically American but clearly Chinese.
So as long as there is some actual culture to point to, which I'm willing to stipulate there is with WASP (especially mid-century), then I think there's a fair reading of "Keep New England WASP" which -- similar to "Keep New England Yankee" -- isn't about excluding people but rather is about preserving a place's cultural heritage.
Of course, as you point out, it's a generous reading. There are less-fraught ways of putting that sentiment.
Maybe they were environmentally conscious skinheads protesting global warming and early thaws.
Content-neutral laws would not differentiate.
1. How do they determine motivation without listening to the content?
2. The purpose of speech is to have an effect on others, to change behavior. Making people feel bad over immutable characteristics is not out of alignment with that.
This gets back to attempts to declare some speech worthless in the Marketplace of Ideas, and therefore bannable.
The value in the First Amendment is not the value in every last idiot's gurbling. It's in denying neo-dictators one of their best clubs in their golf bag of tyrant tools.
Freedom of speech must be fought on distasteful grounds, before it encroaches on the most protected: political speech. As we saw in 2016+, said thugs will immediately move to censor political speech using adjectives like "harrassing" and "dangerous". There is no slippery slope. It's an immediate step.
As some may recall, SCOTUS said that the "live free or die" on the NH license plate may be removed. What if it was replaced with
"Keep New Hampshire White"?
OR, cut off with tin snips and replaced with that on a sticker affixed to the underlying auto?
I don't like hate speech laws in general. At least limit them as suggested near the end of the post so that the victim of the crime must be a human being with a protected status.
In my experience, white racists have not been exposed to ordinary blacks: by that I mean hard-working, church-going, job-holding, not hostile, etc. That is why you find that in the military, blacks and whites tend to integrate. At least that was true before the DEI onslaught. Black and white kids play together from an early age and get to know each other as individuals, rather than as representatives of their race.
In addition, newspapers and tv don’t present any of the professional, well-educated black conservatives. Many have heard of Clarence Thomas but only as a target for attacks on his decisions, beliefs, humanity. Some may have heard of Thomas Sowell. The Wall Street Journal regularly publishes Jason Reilly, but what about other black conservatives such as Glenn Loury? Or Roland Fryer, Harvard economist who conducted and published research, at great cost to himself, showing that young black men were not targeted for execution by police? Or Robert Woodson whose foundation produces curricula for public schools that showcases successful black entrepreneurs and inventors. Bet that curricula is in only a few schools, if any. So no blacks are shown as overcoming slavery and Jim Crow, only as victims or with their hands out.
What's the solution? Conscription--no exceptions?
Or course in any positive statement the law restricts 2 conclusions
1) you cannot jump from the statement to an intention behind the statement.
2) you can't take a positive statement as promotion of a negative.
SO, to the first, the desire to keep somewhere white can't be taken as being a hate statement. Even the judges --- esp the judges --- want to not live in mixed racial neighborhoods.
and to the second, you can't take " I want all white" as meaning "I am against blacks" , simply because it wouldn't work if the statement were "I want all Black neighborhood" --- how can that be racist if said by a Black. It IS what most Blacks want.
In some recent state redistricting the rationale of the court was that Black voters wanted to be in Black districts.
I have tended to think that First Amendment standards for speech directed to and affecting traffic can be lower than general First Amendment standards. I think in determining which interests are compelling, courts can sometimes take into account a context unknown to the common law or the Framers, in this case the fact that people who are going at speeds many times the maximum speed possible in the 18th Century tend to cause accidents and significant injury or death if they get distracted or enraged.
I think, however, that to pass the necessary heightened scrutiny a properly drafted law has to explicitly address and be narrowly tailored to the actual state interest, traffic safety, and not anything else, and hence it must be otherwise content-neutral.
On the one hand, this means that the state can indeed punish “hate speech” but not more innocuous speech, even otherwise similar signs with more innocuous messages, because (if it can prove it) “hate speech” tends to distract and disturb drivers and lead to accidents, while innocuous speech doesn’t. On the other hand, it cannot use the interest as a loophole to target “hate speech” as such. It can only target speech disruptive to traffic, with “hate speech” covered only if (and only because) the state proves it has this effect. This means this particular law would clearly be unconstitutional under my proposal.
This qualifier imposes significant limitations. Narrow tailoring means that the scope of the exception depends, not just on the presence of public property or a public highway, but on the actual presence of heavy traffic to be disrupted. What can be prohibited at rush hour on a high-speed or bumper-to-bumper main highway is different from what can be prohibited on a residential street with a low speed limit.
When I think of people identifying as atheist, I think of people like Richard Dawkins. His core belief is not just that everyone else is wrong. He has his own set of beliefs, and is not particularly defensive or angry.
Just a side-comment on this gem from above that cracked me up.
Have you ever seen Richard Dawkins, Roger? He doesn't strike you as defensive and angry? Maybe his British accent and disposition are throwing you off. 🙂
His book is called The God Delusion... how much more explicitly could he be signalling that "you're all wrong" is his core premise?
Yes, I have seen Dawkins in videos giving speeches and interviews, and he does not seem defensive or angry. Opinionated, maybe, but his opinions are not particularly extreme. He has been kicked out of a couple of atheist organizations for being too moderate. Maybe those organizations are run by angry and intolerant leaders. But lots of political organizations have their peculiar views. Atheism is not that different.
But lots of political organizations have their peculiar views. Atheism is not that different.
Lots of political organizations are based on defensiveness and anger. See also: MAGA.
Depends on your view, I guess. In the last political campaign, I saw the Trump side as sending a mostly positive message. I saw the Harris side as mostly talking about how much they hate Trump.
A positive message of what? Hatred towards immigrants? That's positive in your mind?
Trump does not hate immigrants. He is married to an immigrant. One of his top advisers is an immigrant.
He also thinks they eat cats.
But you are wrong, find his MEAN attack on Aayan Hirsi Ali's conversion to Jesus from being the longtime most famouse female atheist in the world. If I were her brother I be tempted to knuckle the bastard