The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Court Splits 5-4 on Docket Number 666
Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett rule against Trump (again).
Trump's emergency application to stay his sentencing has the docket number 24A666. Sometimes, the truth is stranger than fiction.
The Court denied the application by a 5-4 vote. Justices Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh would have granted the application. Based on the math, we know that Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett voted to deny the application. In the past, I've described the current composition as a 3-3-3 Court on the shadow docket. But for the emergency docket, I think we now have a 5-4 court. I think Justice Kavanaugh has shifted a bit. This same-split arose in the razor wire case last year. Justice Barrett is opposed to granting emergency relief (unless the case comes from the Fifth Circuit), while Justice Kavanaugh recognizes the importance of emergency relief. Going forward, I think Roberts and Barrett will consistently vote against Trump on the emergency docket, even if they might rule for Trump on the merits docket.
To the majority's credit, there is a brief explanation why the stay was denied. Two reason are offered.
Application (24A666) for stay presented to Justice Sotomayor and by her referred to the Court is denied for, inter alia, the following reasons. First, the alleged evidentiary violations at President-Elect Trump's state-court trial can be addressed in the ordinary course on appeal. Second, the burden that sentencing will impose on the President-Elect's responsibilities is relatively insubstantial in light of the trial court's stated intent to impose a sentence of "unconditional discharge" after a brief virtual hearing. Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Kavanaugh would grant the application.
I think Barrett, the former evidence and federal courts professor, wrote the first point. It is short, to the point, and says all the things that Barrett thinks. Indeed, in Trump v. United States, Justice Barrett disagreed with the majority's ruling that the court could not admit "immune" actions as evidence in the trial. She would have allowed the admission of that evidence. Barrett seemed to think the trial court could weight the admissibility issues. Also, Barrett opposed the doctrine of immunity (which allows for interlocutory review), and instead said that immunity could be raised as a defense, and then be "addressed in the ordinary course on appeal." This sentence is ACB in a nutshell.
The second point is John Roberts at his core. He asks, what are the burdens? Trump has to sit through a "brief virtual hearing." He doesn't even have to pay attention! Judge Merchan will impose a sentence without any actual punishment. And what is the effect of those burdens? A "relatively insubstantial" impact on "the President-Elect's responsibilities." What are those responsibilities? And "relative" to what? Has there ever any experience in the history of the republic that is even remotely comparable? Roberts does not answer any of these questions. On the other side of the ledger, what are the benefits of allowing the sentencing to go forward? Roberts does not say. Nothing about the importance of finality, or letting justice be done, or anything like that. And that's the tell. Roberts sees no actual benefit to having Trump sentenced to no time. There is not a real balancing test because Roberts doesn't really balance the burdens against anything. He only says the burdens are not that bad, so suck it up. This is just make-weight to deny the application.
I know the Court felt compared to rush out some stuff about why the application was being denied. Critics demand an explanation on the "shadow" docket. But this explanation was quite unsatisfactory. I would have preferred a one sentence dismissal rather than trying to parse what are the "President-Elect's responsibilities" under the Constitution.
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Apparently absolute presidential immunity is the only species of immunity that doesn't get an interlocutory appeal. Even a patrolman denied qualified immunity gets an interlocutory appeal. The purpose of immunity is not only to spare someone punishment, but also the process. Never will the saying that "the process IS the punishment" be truer than in this case. A great comfort it will be when after years of appeals and untold thousands of dollars there will be a judicial declaration to the effect of, "You were immune all along and never should have been put through this." I am certain the New York courts will drag this out to make it as expensive and excruciating as possible. Because justice.
And what can be said about Roberts that has not been said a million times? He's an inept weaking. His judicial philosophy - if it can be called one - seems to be, "Try not to make waves," which, as often as not, has the opposite effect. I'm reminded of the final scene in Chinatown.
As little as possible.
1. I’m not aware of any form of immunity that allows an appeal directly to the Supreme Court when the trial court denies it.
2. A denial of qualified immunity isn’t always immediately appealable, it depends on the basis for the denial.
3. The immunity doctrine Trump is trying to invoke didn’t exist until after his trial was over, so it wasn’t actually possible for him to avoid the process.
4. That isn’t the final scene.
Conspicuously absent from the order was any discussion of the Supreme Court's jurisdiction or lack thereof to entertain the application in the first place.
Per Article III, § 2 of the Constitution, the appellate jurisdiction of SCOTUS is authorized by Congress and by Congress alone. No federal statute authorized this application to SCOTUS.
Trump is due to receive an unconditional discharge.
The average defendant would be quite satisfied with that but not Trump. He and his lawyers (for reasons of "justice"?) drag everything out as "excruciating" (and stupid) as possible.
Trying "not to make waves" is not exactly a horrible result. It can be done badly, yes, but the Roberts Courts was quite satisfactory until the Trump years. Perhaps, Roberts himself is not the only issue.
"Put through" what? This is pure hackery even if your understanding of the law were correct, which it is. The "process" is over; the only thing Trump is being "put through" by a denial of a stay by SCOTUS is a 30-minute zoom appearance.
Eh, if what he is being put through is that inconsequential, then it would have been no big deal to cancel it.
You remind me of the kid selling newspapers on my ship who wanted to keep the nickel change. "It's just a nickel!" Yeah, kid, if a nickel is so meaningless, then lower your price by a nickel and give me ten cents change.
Trump conceded he is not immune for the conduct he was prosecuted for. Instead, he argued for interlocutory appeal because he claims some of the evidence should be struck under Trump v. United States. In a 180 degree turn from your claim. that's a position for interlocutory appeal that applies only to the president.
I don't see what Donald Trump will gain by appealing the jury verdict and Justice Merchan's sentencing order to the appellate courts of New York. The conduct alleged in the indictment is not official acts to which immunity even arguable attaches. If Trump's complaint is jury instructions or the admission of evidence relating to immune conduct, the remedy would be an appellate court ordering a new trial, which could take place only after Trump leaves office as president.
Such a retrial could result in a sentence of confinement, provided that the records for the harsher sentence affirmatively appear on the record and are based upon objective information concerning identifiable conduct on the part of the defendant occurring after the time of the original sentencing proceeding. North Carolina v. Pearce, 395 U.S. 711, 726 (1969). Why should Trump want to risk that?
I would think it's obvious. Either
(a) He wins, in which case he gets to taunt his enemies (and he's also no longer a convicted felon, which is always a good thing).
(b) He loses, and he gets to raise money from his cult followers by ranting about lawfare and mistreatment and such.
There is no chance that NY is going to try this case again in 2029.
The presidential immunity recognized in Trump v. United States is not directly at issue. Trump conceded that such immunity did not apply to his conduct in that trial. Rather, it is evidentiary issues related to such immunity, and evidentiary issues are never immediately appealable as of right. Trump also argued for an extension of immunity from criminal prosecution for president-elects, but that is an immunity that has never been recognized before. So there is no reason that he should get to immediately appeal that as of right.
Roberts doesn't want to make waves lest he hurt his legacy, and Barrett doesn't want her adopted niglet to be spared preferential treatment.
Second, the burden that sentencing will impose on the President-Elect's responsibilities is relatively insubstantial in light of the trial court's stated intent to impose a sentence of "unconditional discharge" after a brief virtual hearing.
I find this one a bit odd. It would be perfectly understandable if the trial court was actually constrained from imposing a sentence other than "unconditional discharge" but since it's only a "stated intent" it is not, in any legal sense, a done deal.
So if, hypothetically, Judge Merchan were to change his mind and sentence Trump to, say, 60 days inside - where would the Supreme Court be ? It's not that I actually expect Judge M to change his mind, it's that it's difficult to see any kind of bright line that informs SCOTUS in concluding that the burden on the President elect will be relatively insubstantial.
What if, say, Judge M had said nothing about hs stated intent, but all sorts of commentators had said that they expected a sentence of "unconditional discharge" ? Is SCOTUS supposed to be weighing the probabilities here ? It seems a very insubstantial reed on which to balance an actual court decision.
The Barrett answer seems more solid.
I was struck by that thought yesterday too: it would have been hilarious if Merchan said, "Psych! Gotcha!"
Trump would take it to SCOTUS roughly 15 minutes after the sentencing hearing ended, and SCOTUS would take roughly 5 minutes to issue an emergency stay. (The vote for which would probably be 9-0; even if the liberal judges hate Trump, they hate being lied to more.)
This was my concern, presuming Merchan was being sincere. As a legal matter, it seemed somewhat irrelevant.
That said, if he had gone back on his word, and if SCOTUS could issue a emergency stay/reversal after the fact, then this seems the correct legal decision.
People are arguing about the political question, of the taint of being a convicted felon. Trump has no special right not to have that happen, just because he's president-elect. Absent any further state criminal sanction, the conviction being entered does not impair his constitutional responsibilities.
It's frankly disturbing that people who claim they don't like judges acting politically are bothered that ACB isn't being a team player here. The team issue is political, not legal. The regular path of appeal now opens up to Trump. If Team Trump wanted more time in advance of inauguration day to start the appeal, they should have demanded an earlier sentencing date.
"they don't like judges acting politically are bothered that ACB isn't being a team player here"
Not being a "team player" is just a ratification of the lawfare waged against Trump and an invitation to more of the same.
I’m gonna start telling clients to file to run for various offices as republicans. Then every time they do something illegal I can use the lawfare excuse and get them out of trouble.
That would be relevant if Trump did anything illegal, but it's very clear that he did not, a corrupt DA, judge, and ignorant Democratic jury notwithstanding.
Yeah exactly. My client didn’t do any thing wrong, there was a corrupt DA, judge, and ignorant Democratic jury!!! Now you’re getting it.
What else did you read on the back of your Trump cereal box this morning?
You people are truly the dumbest Americans. Ever.
The only surprise here is that he typed "Democratic" instead of Democrat.
The question before the Supreme Court, just now when ACB went against her team thereby upsetting a bunch of partisans, did not involve Trump's guilt or innocence.
It was whether he was entitled to a federal stay of his sentencing hearing, so that he could appeal the legal issues related to the jury verdict without the verdict being entered onto the record. With the judge releasing from any future penalty, there was no irreparable harm to stay. No supremacy clause conflict of a state judge potentially asserting authority over a sitting president.
Ratification of lawfare isn't a thing to be avoided. Lawfare is often legal, even if it's contrived like it is here.
I don't know all the particulars about NY state law here, but I absolutely agree that making a federal campaign law violation, never charged or convicted in federal court, one of several possible secondary crimes to elevate a state felony, violated Trump's right to due process. No state has jurisdiction to enforce a federal criminal law like that.
That question was not what was before the Supreme Court just now, for ACB to be disloyal to her side. There is no obligation on ACB to make an incorrect judicial ruling to satisfy some partisan political agenda.
To get emergency relief, you have to make a showing of substantial likelihood of irreparable harm. So if it appears more likely than not that Trump will be sentenced to "unconditional discharge," then that is a valid basis to deny emergency relief because it prevents Trump from making the requisite showing. The standard doesn't require certainty that no irreparable harm will occur.
I'm unclear on how people are turning themselves into a pretzel about this.
This trial isn't about presidential conduct.
This trial doesn't contemplate incarcerating a sitting president.
IF at some future date, the court were to impose a sentence on Trump while he is in office, then there would be something actionable.
I'm not sure why the court couldn't sentence him to prison, but suspend the sentence until after he leaves office. Aside from that being hilariously disproportionate to prior cases.
Because he'd never leave office?
You guys don't ever want to let go of your stolen election derangement.
Trump can't decide not to leave office. His continued occupation of the White House does not make him still president. Whether it's noon on January 20, 2017, or noon on January 20, 2029, after both dates Trump ceased/ceases to be president.
A president doesn't leave office. The office leaves him.
History is littered with people who couldn't decide not to leave office, but nonetheless decided not to leave office.
Much of that history is under systems that have no concept of the rule of law.
Name one instance in American history, where the term of office is defined as a fixed term like federal elective offices. (I am not talking about any state office where there is precedent to serve until a successor is qualified.) We are not the Weimar Republic. We do not have mobs proclaim presidents from the steps of the US Capitol.
If no person had qualified as president by noon of January 20, 2017, Nancy Pelosi would have become Acting President, assuming she accepted the office. There are no scenarios where Trump remaining in the White House would he have continued being president. No matter how deranged you are by Trump's continuance on the public stage. You can't blame me, I never voted for the guy.
I was surprised to see even four votes to block sentencing.
Trump literally had six votes to let him shoot someone on Fifth Avenue. Why are you surprised that he has four to avoid getting sentenced for a crime he's already been found to have committed?
Shut up and fuck off, lying Nazi scum.
Congratulations! Now, you're a grey waste of space.
The sentence was an unconditional discharge. He, in effect, got away with it with a sentence of a strong talking to.
A 5-4 split if anything draws attention to the whole thing more than some might like.
On some level, it's not too surprising. Kavanaugh thinks everyone was glad with the pardoning of Nixon. Gorsuch thought "the ages" were more important than Trump's crimes. If we do anything about presidential crimes, we might threaten the power of the presidency. Alito and Thomas are obvious.
Probably because this conviction, unlike shooting someone on Fifth Avenue, is contrived lawfare. Ultimately legal (the prosecution anyway, not the jury instructions or the verdict, likely to be overturned on appeal as defective) but definitely political and a demolition of norms.
From some of the same people lamenting that Trump destroys norms. No, you guys are not the heroes here.
I cannot understand how people can even pretend that the presidential immunity case was about personal behavior.
Are people that genuinely stupid?
I would like to have seen one of the dissenting justices explaining their decision to stay the hearing. I mean, it would have boiled down to "because Trump", but it would have been amusing to see how they phrased it, given that there are no honest justifications for the stay.
Are all the other responses here as dishonest as you say? I don't see you refuting any of them. Brave words which only show up here aren't so brave. Your only other comment calls Josh a coward for not stating his opinion. Now let's hear your brave words refuting all those other dishonest comments.
I'm not going to go down the list and refute each and every one. If A says the earth is flat, B says it's saddle-shaped and C says it's a torus, noting that it is in fact an oblate spheroid suffices to refute in general. It's simple. Issues of evidence are handled on appeal as with any other case and defendant, and having to attend - by video - a brief hearing on this Friday, while Trump is still not president yet imposes no genuine burden - and fwiw for any other defendant but Trump specifically the appeal would be literally laughed out of court.
Trump attempted to bypass a completely regular and legitimate court proceeding. And Josh is a coward because the legal point is so easy and obvious but to say so would be going against his default pro-Trump stance.
I think it is time for Trump to start playing hardball.
By doing what?
By doing the same that Letitia James campaigned on to Judge Merchan.
What are you going to charge him with?
Impersonating a judge?
I'm sure they can find something or get creative with the interpretation of the law.
You know, just like they did to him.
Doubt. Lol. I mean it certainly won’t be related to this case. You’re gonna have to hope he likes to drink and drive.
He is a NYC political official. Easy to fine stuff about such creatures. Show me the man etc.
I hope he realizes the next dude offering him a bribe is an FBI informant.
“I hope he realizes the next dude offering him a bribe is an FBI informant.”
He’s a state trial court judge so he’s probably pretty dumb and would fall for this. But it’s going to be difficult to sustain the conviction given where SCOTUS is going with anti-corruption law.
Trump is actual OK with this decision.
“They called for an appeal. So, I read it, and I thought it was a fair decision, actually,” Trump said at a prescheduled event at Mar-a-Lago minutes after the court issued its ruling Thursday evening.
“So I’ll do my little thing tomorrow. They can have fun with their political opponent,” he continued.
Trump’s comments were notable for not lambasting the five justices who sided against him — the court’s three liberals as well as Justice Amy Coney Barrett, whom Trump appointed, and Chief Justice John Roberts — given Trump’s frequent attacks on judges who rule against him.
In a separate Truth Social post, Trump wrote that “I appreciate the time and effort” by the Supreme Court for “trying to remedy the great injustice done to me.”
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5078243-trump-declines-to-criticize-supreme-court-after-justices-greenlight-sentencing/
And Prof. Blackman seems to have missed "appeal" meaning since (according to Trump), this is a hidden message that once the appeals hit the SC, everything will be wiped away.
He's going to be in office a few days & it's an unconditional discharge. He can handwave it. Anyway, I wouldn't take anything he says at face value. He is liable to whine about it some other time.
He whined about his verdict etc. in his statement at the sentencing via video.
He read it.
Ha ha ha ha ha...
Until he’s sworn he’s a private citizen, and the remedy for every other person is to move to stay execution of the sentence pending appeal after it’s imposed. Whole lot of people have errors, even structural ones, in their criminal trials and they still need to get sentenced then request a stay of the sentence actually imposed.
Funny thing about populist leaders and their most ardent supporters, nothing irks them more than when they get treated like regular people.
"Nothing irks them more than when they get treated like regular people."
The NY AG and Manhattan DA campaigned on sticking it to Trump. Is that how "regular people" are treated? What about being charged with a crime that depends on three entirely novel legal theories in order to work? "Just doing business! Nobody is above the law!" The absolute mendacity in your framing of this situation is shameful.
The NY AG and Manhattan DA campaigned on sticking it to Trump. Is that how "regular people" are treated?
Yeah actually prosecutors run on “sticking it to criminals” and “being tough on crime” and highlight and put resources into cases that involve regular people that attract a high profile all the time. The result? A lot of regular people have their lives ruined and rights abused.
“What about being charged with a crime that depends on three entirely novel legal theories in order to work?”
HAHAHAHA someone doesn’t do criminal practice lol. Prosecutors have dumb theories literally all the fucking time.
“The absolute mendacity in your framing of this situation is shameful.”
You think it’s mendacious because you’ve probably never represented a criminal defendant, prosecuted a case, or been involved with the criminal legal system at all. I’m not mendacious, you just don’t know the system.
Eh, no. IANAL but even I know that if prosecutors had dumb theories literally all the fucking time, they wouldn't get any convictions or stay in office long.
He said "novel" theories, not dumb.
They campaigned on sticking it to Trump, specifically, not generic criminals. According to your novel dumb theory, bills of attainder are no such thing.
Oh for three.
“I know that if prosecutors had dumb theories literally all the fucking time, they wouldn't get any convictions or stay in office long.”
Actually you don’t know this. Because you’re not a lawyer who deals with prosecutors. And they get convictions on dumb theories all the time and then they become judges.
“ He said "novel" theories, not dumb.”
Novel theories can be smart and correct. But are routinely dumb and applied to regular people.
“They campaigned on sticking it to Trump, specifically, not generic criminals. According to your novel dumb theory, bills of attainder are no such thing.”
1) it’s not a bill of attainder because that’s a prohibition on legislative punishment 2) if anything it’s a violation of the professional conduct rules 3) the results are the same and regular people don’t have a way to fight back as well as Trump when they’re part of a prosecutors campaign against “criminals.”
“Oh for three.”
Ending with misspelling a number. Fantastic.
You said all, and literally. Both words have meanings which do not change just because a lawyer wants to pound the table.
Your other rebuttals are even dumber, err, noveler.
And your "1) it's" is not properly capitalized. So there.
Yeah that’s what I thought: a guy who doesn’t know shit getting schooled about the real world.
When do AGs and DAs campaign on prosecuting and individual private citizen? You're still being deeply disingenuous.
Sure. That’s a violation of the rules of professional responsibility. Something that prosecutors do when they’re prosecuting other people all the time!
And you’re being deeply ignorant if you don’t realize Trump is getting special treatment in his favor all the time.
As I understand it, Bragg said while campaigning for his job -- this is liable to be what is done if the position is elective -- is that he would do his job, including against big names. Or something along that line. People seem to be saying he made it all about Trump. I don't know of much evidence he did that.
I don't find this somehow nefarious. Some will campaign in problematic ways. For instance, maybe they will rant about "illegals" or something. But, some Manhattan AG saying he was going to prosecute, no matter the person? Not exactly an issue.
Surely the "tough on crime" rhetoric etc. can be taken too far but that isn't really what people are upset about here. They think Trump was somehow unfairly targeted.
If some person was running for prosecutor of Hazzard County & said "I'm going to apply the law equally, even if deep pockets, even Boss Hogg were in the dock," I would also not find it problematic.
Like I said below you can take their claims at face value and he’s still being treated better than literally every other defendant or potential defendant.
They did not.
That having been said, I look forward to MAGA defending all the immigrants Trump wants to deport by saying, "It's so unfair, because Trump campaigned on sticking it to them."
There were no novel legal theories.
The thing to me is that you can take a ton of claims by Trump supporters about the Trump prosecutions at face value…and he’d still be getting some of the most favorable treatment of any defendant ever.
Using a federal offense, uncharged by any federal prosecutor, as one of the options for a jury to find as a fact, in order to elevate a state misdemeanor to a felony after the state law statute of limitations was amended to allow for that, is the very definition of a novel legal theory.
Funny thing about populist leaders and their most ardent supporters, nothing irks them more than when they get treated like regular people.
If he were treated like regular people, we wouldn't even be here, as there wouldn't have been innumerable initiatives to git 'im.
If he were treated like regular people he would have been indicted years ago for various real estate frauds. He’s never been treated like a regular person and getting into Republican politics just accelerated that trend.
"Various real estate frauds"
Is this the part where we pretend telling the tax man and lendor different estimates for property value shocks the conscience?
Lie, lie, lie.
This is the part where I point out that Trump is generally known as a scammy real estate guy and if he wasn’t as rich and powerful and connected as he was prior to entering politics he probably would have been indicted for something.
(Possibly could have been charged for Trump University too)
"generally known"
Ironclad evidence!
Trump reminds me of a lot of criminal defendants in terms of his general character. Had he been even slightly less well born or slightly less successful in the 80s but kept the same character, he would have ended up in ClubFed. Also character wise it’s interesting that one of his favorite type of people to pardon or commute sentences for was people with corruption or fraud charges. Conrad Black, Milken, Blagojovich, Kilpatrick, Nolan, DeBartolo, Kerik, Duncan Hunter, Chris Collins, Chuck Kushner, etc. Almost like he has a personal affinity for fraud and corruption.
"Almost like he has a personal affinity for fraud and corruption."
Maybe enduring nearly a decade of baseless lawfare has made him empathetic to others who got fucked by the government.
1) I’m not sure how he could have experienced a decade of baseless lawfare in the years of 2017-2020. Especially considering he never was charged with anything until 2023. (If you mean suits against his admin…wait til I tell you about other presidents).
2) which of these people got fucked by the government?
3) now you’re admitting he’s actually not that different from other criminal defendants which has been my point all along. He’s actually not a special victim.
4) You’re also implying he didn’t have empathy before it happened to him which is not a great way to defend someone’s character!
No, but his presidency was hampered by bullshit nationwide injunctions based on the Administrative Procedures Act, whereas no other president's actions were constantly ruled arbitrary and capricious, and no, it wasn't because he did anything any of the others didn't do.
Sure, whatever, dude. Your team lost the Super Bowl because the refs were biased against you.
David, you can't be as idiotic as you are letting on.
I didn't see anything in the reasoning that I disagree with.
What is the actual impact?
People call him a convicted felon?
They've already been doing that ( a little early, to some people's regret) but it's not like he's not used to it.
The Democrats/MSM (I know) will get their 15 minutes and he'll come up with some sort of "punishment" for them, and the cycle repeats.
In 99.999999999999999999999% of all cases, a defendant trying to appeal their conviction or sentence before they are sentenced would have that appeal denied, because the usual appeals process is to be convicted, be sentenced, and then appeal that conviction or sentence. If private citizen Trump was launching this appeal, there would be zero consideration as to emergency relief, just if private citizen Bloomberg or whatever was.
The proposed difference here is that either the act of being sentenced or the sentence itself is likely to interfere not with the _president_ (who enjoys no state immunity), but with the _presidency_. And that's actually a pretty reasonable grounds for appeal.
So it's pretty logical -- and indeed correct -- that those denying emergency relief spend a sentence articulating why no reason for emergency relief exists. It doesn't exist because the presidency is not going to be in any way impacted or interrupted by the ordinary procedure. And that's what the denial says.
If he wants to appeal the charges because they're a snowjob by Lying Liberal Loser Democrats From New Loser City and The Lovely Lisa Page or whatever then he can do that after sentencing like every other aggrieved defendant.
Yes, it would be better to have a reversal on the merits.
Team Trump wants what's not really possible. An appeal where they win on the merits, but without going through the necessary intermediate step of having the conviction entered at the sentencing stage.
That pretty much never happens for any other defendant. There is no legal reason why being president-elect should create an exception. Especially when the judge (yes, gaming the system for rather transparent political reasons) decides to use his discretion considering that Trump is president-elect, to sentence him to an unconditional discharge. To avoid any federal supremacy clause conflict.
The prosecution was rigged as with no other defendant. The jury verdict was 8 months ago. It is wrong for about ten reasons, and would be reversed on appeal, if heard on the merits. So the judge just sat on it for 8 months, until a week before Trump moves into the White House. There is no purpose to the judge's behavior, except as a personal desire to smear Trump.
“The prosecution was rigged as with no other defendant.”
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/top-texas-court-tosses-capital-conviction-because-prosecutor-was-also-clerking-for-the-judge
“No other defendant.” LOL. LMAO.
How exactly can a prosecution be "rigged"? A prosecutor targeting a particular individual is a political offense, not a legal one. It's not something that cause a conviction to be overturned on appeal. Even if Bragg was coordinating with the White House or other partisans/legal experts, it's not legal grounds to overturn the conviction. The reason we often elect prosecutors is because the decision whether to prosecute is inherently political. See all the Soros DA's.
If the judge delaying sentencing so long was a legal violation, why didn't Trump's lawyers act before now? Spoiler alert: it's not. Like I keep saying on there, the objections from people like you a political and violations of norms, not any legal violation. You guys think that your political preferences have legal standing. Mostly they do not.
The merits against the criminal case and verdict were not before the SCOTUS with this appeal. Stop talking like they were, you sound dumb. Only whether the sentencing hearing should be stayed. The normal procedure is that the defendant can't begin appealing the merits until after sentencing. Trump didn't meet the threshold for the exceptions to that. That's all, nothing else.
You will note Josh's cowardly refusal to declare his own opinion about whether a stay should be granted. Presumably he knows that the majority were right, but he doesn't want to find against Trump. Better to stay shtum.
Nice mind reading.
A logical deduction from months of Josh's posts.
Question for a lawyer here. Will the sentencing today end the gag order?
Mostly just curious, but the potential Truth posts could keep us entertained for days.
I think so. Once the entry is finalized the trial court lacks jurisdiction over the person of Trump. I don’t think a gag order is the kind of collateral matter it could continue to have jurisdiction over. I also don’t think that the court of appeals* would impose one. Most of the justifications, like witness intimidation, have evaporated. And clearly an interminable order has grave first amendment problems so, yes I think it is done.
*yeah yeah you nerds I know it’s the Supreme Court of the State of New York, Appellate Division, First Judicial Department
Why couldn’t it be made a sentencing condition?
Good point. I mean I guess it’s an “unconditional discharge” but I suppose it could. (First amendment issues aside) Interesting question of whether that places him on some kind of inactive supervision? Where they’d have to have a violation hearing if he violates it?
A) While sentencing conditions are allowed, that doesn't seem like a constitutional one. This order was justified only to protect the integrity of the trial. Once it's over, that justification goes away.
B) An unconditional discharge, as the name implies, has no sentencing conditions.
The outcome here seems rather straightforward. If Mr. Trump will be neither fined nor imprisoned, he fails the irreparable harm prong rather badly. So regardless of what one thinks about the other requirements for a stay, this essential requirement just isn’t met, and therefore a stay just isn’t available.
Frankly, if I were New York, I would appeal a sentence that doesn’t impose any meaningful penalty at all. There isn’t even time served. He’s been on bail the whole time.
I also think a stay pending appeal is extremely justifiable…but only AFTER the sentence is actually imposed. (In fact I think it would be justifiable on a lot of non-presidential, “it’s trump” grounds).
But there's nothing to stay, now!
No, she did not. She only opposed applying the doctrine of immunity to evidence presented at trial. To the contrary, in Trump v. United States she explicitly supported Trump's right to interlocutory appeal when he claims immunity for his conduct.
Should there be for the unusual right of interlocutory appeal?
Right; Josh — B, not R — is such a bad lawyer. He manages to get Barrett's ruling exactly backwards. What she said was that she doesn't exactly think this issue should be characterized as immunity, but she's okay with that framing with the understanding that it means he gets interlocutory appeals.
IF the case against Trump is based on his violating the FEDERAL campaign finance law, what happens if he pardons himself for that?
Hence no more felony, NY no longer has the Federal offense.
The conviction was based on whether he intended to commit a federal crime c. 2015. A later pardon for the substantive crime does not erase any intent to commit it.
"The conviction was based on whether he intended to commit a federal crime c. 2015. A later pardon for the substantive crime does not erase any intent to commit it."
No, the case was based (in part) on whether Trump, at the time he falsified records, (mostly in 2017 and 2018,) intended to conceal a violation of New York Election Law section 17-152, conspiracy to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means.
The case against Trump is not based on his violating the federal campaign finance law,so nothing "happens" if he pardons himself for that.
But even if it were, that's not how it works. A pardon does not retroactively erase a conviction. Let's suppose you were convicted years ago for a felony in state court, and then you're later arrested for and convicted of being a felon-in-possession. If you arrange for the governor to grant you a pardon for the original felony, that doesn't erase the felony and make you no longer guilty of having been a felon-in-possesion.
The state should never be allowed to prosecute based on a predicate federal felony which is not being prosecuted.
Good news: They didn't.
Um, there is no "predicate federal felony" element of the statute. Also, Michael Cohen was prosecuted.
Someone still ignoring the particular due process violation of the way a state prosecutor tried to use an alleged violation of federal law, which the judge didn't even require the jury to specifically identify it as such to justify the felony conviction.
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