The Volokh Conspiracy
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Instant Analysis of the TikTok Oral Argument
A few moments ago, the Supreme Court wrapped oral argument in the TikTok case. It stretched nearly three hours, but could have easily been finished in one.
I do not think the Court can settle this matter one way or another in the next nine days. There are simply too many issues. Let me start with perhaps the most relevant question asked at the end: Justice Alito asked whether the Court could grant an administrative stay, that did not turn on the likelihood of success on the merits. That is precisely what I proposed last week. Solicitor General Prelogar groused, but would not say the Court lacked the power to issue such an administrative stay. And that's all Alito needed to hear.
A few members asked about President Trump's brief. I know that elites widely ridiculed it, but Sauer's submission was effective for precisely the reason I suggested: it gives the Court an out to not have to decide this case that could set a sweeping precedent. And that ties in directly with the purpose of the administrative stay.
On the merits, there are four votes clearly in support of the government. Chief Justice Roberts is squarely in support of the law. He asked many questions about the ability of China to inspect data on American devices. I told you this threat was on his mind in the year-end report. Justice Kavanaugh also asked several question along similar lines about national security. Justice Thomas did not see at all how TikTok has any speech interest here. And Justice Alito did now show any inclination that TikTok could prevail.
Justice Gorsuch was wearing his libertarian hat today, and was really worried about the precedent that could be set. He also asked a lot of factual questions, which suggests he would be uncomfortable allowing the law to go into effect. Justice Barrett seemed convinced there is some First Amendment interest at play, but couldn't settle on the appropriate standard of scrutiny. She kept saying "Let's assume I agree with you the First Amendment applies, what is the right test…" When ACB asks the lawyer to assume something, that means it is what she thinks. I think Barrett is finding the right way to rule against TikTok but isn't sure.
Justice Kagan seemed a bit fluid. I've written before that her primary goal is to influence Justice Barrett. At one point, Justice Kagan tried to suggest what Justice Barrett was thinking, then stopped herself, and told us what she is thinking. I think she forgot which role she was playing.
Justice Sotomayor seemed squarely in support of TikTok, but wasn't quite sure how to cobble together a majority. And Justice Jackson was a bit all over the place.
Anyway, bottom line, I think the Court issues some sort of administrative stay (really an administrative injunction). All of the professors who scoffed at my proposal and said it was not proper, or inconsistent with the All Writs Act, will have to respond accordingly. Then let's see what kind of deal Trump can work out. Maybe China can trade TikTok for the Panama Canal.
Update: Shortly after I published this post, I stepped into the FedSoc faculty forum. About the last 15 minutes of the video involves discussion of the TikTok case. I offered some comments from the microphone:
Update 2: Here is the colloquy between Justice Alito and SG Prelogar about an administrative stay:
JUSTICE ALITO: At one point Mr. Francisco suggested that what we might want to do and what he would regard as certainly preferable to a decision affirming on the merits was –is to issue an injunction pending, I guess, consideration of what we now regard as the –as the cert petition that was filed here.
What do you think of that suggestion?
GENERAL PRELOGAR: So I think this Court doesn't have any basis to enter a temporary injunction, unless it thinks Petitioners are likely to succeed on the merits of the First Amendment claim. And to be honest, you know, I –I would –I think that there is no argument to be made that you should find that likelihood of success. This is an act of Congress. This isn't some unilateral action by the executive branch, but it actually was action in parallel between the Executive and Congress where Congress took action to close up a loophole in some of our laws. The Executive had tried to force divestiture of TikTok under the Trump administration, but that had gotten tied up in litigation about those authorities. So Congress came in and provided additional authority based on a substantial record, including with respect to the data harm. And I don't see any basis for this Court to displace the deadline that Congress set without finding that actually there is a potential First Amendment problem here.
JUSTICE ALITO: Do –do you think we have the authority to issue an administrative stay as we have done in –in other cases or do you think that the January 20 deadline prohibits us from doing that?
GENERAL PRELOGAR: I don't think this Court has a formal basis to not issue an administrative stay, if it believed that that was necessary to assist in the Court's own consideration of the case. And I would obviously defer to the Court and whether it has a sufficient time to resolve the case, but we are here ready to submit the case today. And I think it is in the interest of Congress's work and our national security to resolve the case and allow the statute to take effect.
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This.
Fucking.
Guy.
“I know that elites widely ridiculed it, but Sauer’s submission was effective for precisely the reason I suggested: it gives the Court an out to not have to decide this case that could set a sweeping precedent.”
Everyone who understands even the basics of jurisprudence ridiculed it. Notably absent from the list of critics was one Josh ‘Waterboy’ Blackman.
There are multiple possibilities here. I think you mean JB, but I could be wrong.
(1) When Alito started to talk about silencing “Joe,” it felt a bit personal, even if it was just a hypo.
(2) SG Prelogar is very good & talks very fast.
(3) The general assumption seems to be that TikTok and company clearly will lose though the oral argument suggests some reason to be concerned. The justices seemed to start to agree somewhat during the SG questioning. Not saying this will change the result.
(4) I’m sure all the professors will do that, JB.
TikTok Kanal has a certain Je ne sais pas ring to it.
Modest correction to an otherwise agreeable post – it’s je ne sais quoi
Shit. I mean, Merde.
Le mot de Cambronne!
There is a reasonable remedy that would allow the incoming President to decide this matter: Congress could pass a bill extending the time limit.
I do find it questionable that courts can issue injunctions that would not remedy the alleged violations. President Trump lacks any authority to repeal the Act. And neither side requested that relief.
If only there was a blogger on VC who was an expert on the First Amendment…
I didn’t hear any mention of the recent Chinese hacks of AT&T and Verizon. China sees itself as our adversary, and they’re exploiting whatever information they can get access to in preparation for a potential conflict.
Of course, our First Amendment rights wouldn’t disappear if we were at war with China either, but cutting off China’s access to TikTok’s data under those circumstances would surely fall within the appropriate powers of government.
I’m not convinced that the First Amendment obligates the U.S. government to carry water for our obvious adversaries in preparation for a conflict. Can someone explain why TikTok’s collection of information would be any more unacceptable if we were officially at war with China than it is now?
Do we need to wait until China is firing missiles at us before the First Amendment allows the Commander-in-chief to be prudent?
Do you think the US government isn’t hacking away around the world, even in its “allies” systems?
The question isn’t whether banning TikTok is fair to our adversaries. The question is whether the First Amendment stands in the way of our ability to defend ourselves. I maintain that if government has any legitimate purpose at all, it is only to protect our rights. Insofar as forcing the sale of TikTok is done in harmony with both the First Amendment and the government’s obligation to protect our rights from foreign adversaries, forcing the sale of TikTok is what should be done.
And that’s regardless of whether we hack other countries, too.
P.S. Does the term “tu quoque” mean anything to you?
AT&T and Verizon are telecom companies whose customers expect them to respect their privacy. TikTok sells chatter by people who are seeking attention, who don’t want privacy.
Again, the question is whether the data TikTok generates can be exploited by the Chinese government and used against us in a conflict with the United States, and the answer is yes.
The point of bringing up the hack of AT&T and Verizon is that China is actively seeking to use our data against us in a potential conflict.
The suggestion that TikTok’s data might be useful to the Chinese government is not speculative. The Chinese government is actively seeking exactly this kind of data, and the reason they want it is not to help us.
In all likelihood, the Chinese probably have much of our personal data (credit, financial, personal, social, etc) already from data thefts within the last 5 years.
If you stop smoking, it doesn’t completely eliminate the risk of lung cancer, but if you want to avoid lung cancer, you should probably stop smoking anyway.
When the Court observes that it lacks the power to compel executive (in)action for no reason whatsoever, will Josh Blackman show contrition?
No.
The tone of this piece (I won’t comment on the content) is unbelievable coming from a legal scholar.
But totally believable coming from Josh Blackman.
This was so cold I got hypothermia just from reading it.
Do you perchance have a newsletter?
I suppose Alito really is this stupid, but presumably the other justices will point out to him that there’s nothing to stay.
“Solicitor General Prelogar groused, but would not say the Court lacked the power to issue such an administrative stay.”
I think everybody understands that it’s generally not prudent to tell the Supreme court that they lack the power to do something they seem to have not already decided not to do.
Assume the law goes into effect and there is no administrative stay. How….
Do you shut down an app like TikTok overnight across the USA; or,
compel the TikTok sale in a day?
Have we ever turned off an app of this many US users before in our history?
The app itself need not be “turned off”. As I understand it, the law only prohibits entities such as the App Store and Google Play from hosting it. That effectively prevents new downloads and updates of the app, but those versions of the app already in use will stay operational, and users can continue to use them. (It also means the app cannot be patched to close any security vulnerabilities which come to light…brilliant, Congress.)
My prediction is that TikTok is not going anywhere. I don’t know what the actual price will be, but all ByteDance has to do is throw some token amount in Trump’s direction and there will be no enforcement of the ban.
This is not legal analysis (IANAL), but I don’t think the court case will matter one way or another in the long run.
This case is all a waste of everybody’s time.
Now that we know what Trump wants, the TikTok reprieve will simply be thrown into the “one big bill” Trump wants Congress to pass ASAP, the ban will vanish immediately and the Play and App stores can again host the TikTok app.