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Crime and Terrorism are Poor Rationales for Immigration Restrictions
The risk of migrant terrorism is low, immigrants generally have lower crime rates than natives, and migration restrictions are both unjust and less effective than other strategies for reducing violence.

Dramatic recent incidents have heightened calls to impose severe restrictions on immigration in order to curb crime and terrorism. By all means we should punish violent criminals and terrorists, whatever their background. But crime and terrorism risk are bad rationales for immigration restrictions. I covered the terrorism angle in some detail in a 2022 article for the Verfassungsblog website. Virtually everything I said then still applies. To briefly summarize: 1) the risk is low, 2) restricting liberty of large numbers of people because of the wrongdoing of a small minority is deeply unjust, 3) migration restrictions cause great harm, and 4) there much better ways to reduce the risk of violence.
Here's an excerpt:
In both Europe and the United States, fears of terrorism and violence have been exploited by anti-immigrant nationalist political movements….
The risks of terrorism by migrants are low and can potentially be mitigated further by "keyhole" solutions that address the problem by means less draconian than the complete exclusion of migrants.
The risk that an American will be killed by an immigrant terrorist in a given year is so infinitesimal that it is actually several times lower than the risk that he or she will be killed by a lightning strike during the same timeframe.1) Over a 40 year period, the number of Americans killed by terrorist entrants from any of the five majority-Muslim countries covered by Donald Trump's 2017 "travel ban" order was zero. The risk in European countries was comparably low,2) also in the same general ballpark as common everyday dangers. Even if these risks were to increase several-fold as a result of expanded immigration, they would still be extremely small…
There are some ways in which migration restrictions can actually increase terrorism risks and undermine efforts to combat terrorist organizations. First, they may feed into the propaganda of terrorist groups, claiming that the West is hostile to Muslims, Arabs, or other groups targeted for migration restrictions. Second, allowing migrants from areas controlled by terrorist groups or hostile anti-Western regimes to come to the West reduces the amount of people and resources under those entities' control, thereby weakening them….
Even if migration increases terrorism risks only slightly, it might be argued that is still enough to justify restricting it, at least in the case of migrants from nations that may seem to pose relatively higher risks. After all, even one terrorist attack is one too many. But this analysis implicitly assumes that migration restrictions have few or no costs….
In reality, barring migration has enormous costs, for both migrants and destination countries. The cost to the former is obvious. Barring or severely restricting migration from nations with repressive governments and powerful terrorist movements inevitably consigns hundreds of thousands of people to lives of oppression and poverty, and sometimes even to death.
There are also large costs to destination countries. Among other things, immigrants – including those from poor and oppressed nations – make disproportionate contributions to scientific innovation, and are also disproportionately likely to become entrepreneurs….
Restricting migration to prevent small increases in terrorism is also unjust for reasons that go beyond consequentialist considerations. Imagine that migrants from Nation A have higher terrorism rates than natives Nation B, but the vast majority of residents of both are not terrorists. Perhaps 1 in 100,000 migrants from A is a terrorist, which is true of only 1 in 1 million residents of B…. Still, barring all or most migration from A into B means imposing severe restrictions on the liberty of many thousands of people merely because they happened to be born to the wrong parents, in the wrong place.
We readily see the injustice of such measures in the domestic context. I live in the state of Virginia, which borders on West Virginia, a significantly poorer state with a much higher crime rate than our own. But virtually everyone agrees that it would be unjust to bar migration from West Virginia to Virginia, merely because migrants from the former may be more likely to commit violent crimes than native-born residents of the latter.
Similarly, in the US, young black males, on average, have higher crime rates than members of many other ethnic groups. White males, in turn, are disproportionately likely to become domestic terrorists…. It does not follow, however, that we would be justified in imposing severe restrictions on the freedom of movement of either black males or white males as a group. In both cases, it would be deeply unjust to restrict the freedom of large numbers of people merely because they happen to be members of the same racial or ethnic group as others who have committed various crimes and misdeeds. The same point applies to potential immigrant groups singled out for exclusion merely because others born in the same place have a disproportionate propensity to commit acts of terrorism…..
What is true of terrorism is also true of crime. In the US, migrants - including illegal ones - actually have much lower crime rates than native-born citizens. Moreover, as noted in my Verfassungbslog article, there are much better ways to reduce the risk of terrorism and violent crime, generally:
The case for terrorism-based immigration restrictions is further weakened by the availability of alternative ways to reduce the danger. Because terrorism risks from migration are already so low, it may be very difficult to reduce them still further. However, tapping the vast new wealth created by immigration can potentially pay for extensive new security and counterterrorism operations, if necessary. In Chapter 6 of Free to Move, I describe how shifting the resources currently devoted to enforcing American immigration restrictions could easily pay for many thousands of additional police officers. Social science research indicates that increasing the number of cops on the streets can significantly reduce violent and property crime, whether perpetrated by immigrants or natives, thereby greatly improving public safety…. If necessary, we can also use some of the funds saved on immigration enforcement and wealth generated by increased migration to finance additional counter-terrorism operations.
In the Verfassungblog article, and elsewhere, I have also noted ways in which migration restrictions actually increase crime and terrorism, such as by creating a black market that organized crime will almost inevitably exploit.
I also noted, in the article, there is some evidence that migration sometimes leads to acts of terrorism by anti-immigrant right-wingers. The recent awful attack in Magdeburg, Germay may have been example of this phenomenon, as the perpetrator - though himself a migrant from Saudi Arabia - was anti-Muslim activist and a supporter of the neo-fascist anti-immigrant AFD party. When such things happen, the right approach is to crack down on terrorists, not give in to them. As in the case of hostage deals, yielding to terrorists incentivizes more terrorism. Governments can target terrorists - whether their ideology be right, left, or radical Islamist - without in the process punishing innocent people whose only sin is fleeing poverty and oppression.
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Yes, immigrants have lower crime rates than natives, if "natives" includes blacks and 2nd and 3rd generation dark skinned Hispanics, and if "immigrants" includes educated East and South Asians.
They don't have lower crime rates if you compare Guatemalans, Somalis, and Haitians to native white Americans, even in the lowest decile of income.
agreed -
Selective use of data will yield the results advocates want.
Joe_dallas agreeing with the Klan's take on the matter.
He’s an expert on so many things, why not Klanology?
You're even worse than David.
Yeah Don, defend racism and pretend like you aren't just as big a piece of shit as the racist himself.
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Don't you have a dude to be barebacking?
and the Late Senator Robert KKK Bird
Such a lame response. It's not even a clever snark
The proper comparison is not Immigrants to native born Americans, but illegal immigrants to legal immigrants.
Nobody is saying we don't need or shouldn't have any immigration, the debate is whether the immigration should be only be allowed by law.
We have about 1 million legal immigrants a year admitted to the US, that number could be doubled or tripled with much fewer impacts, and greater benefit than allowing 2 million illegal immigrants a year, which the Biden administration has not only allowed but encouraged.
Talk to Trump's new Imperator of Immigration, Stephen Miller, about that. He has lots of plans to reduce legal immigration, which he seems to detest under any circumstances.
No, he probably detests legal immigration in the form of "family reunification," "asylum," and "diversity visas," which nearly guarantee getting low quality immigrants.
Lots of people are saying we don't need and shouldn't have any immigration.
Note that every time Prof. Somin suggests relaxing restrictions on immigration — which would of course mean that the people coming in would be allowed by law — we get snark about how if you just make bank robbery legal, then there wouldn't be as much crime.
Somin doesn't want to "relax" restrictions on immigration, he wants to end them completely.
Please show where he wrote that he favored no restrictions on immigration.
It's a reasonable deduction given his persistance in insisting the federal government has no constitutional power to regulate immigration. A claim nobody would make if it weren't that they didn't want immigration regulated.
I disagree. People do take positions on constitutional interpretation that are at times different than their favored policy outcomes. At least they do if they are making constitutional arguments in good faith.
I also do not remember him making that argument, but I'll take your word for it.
Yes, this has been pointed out to Somin many times. His use of statistics on this issue is dishonest.
Like lumping all migrants together, legal and illegal, and then claiming the “migrant” crime rate is lower than native born citizens. What about just illegals? (If there is even an accurate measure). But even assuming that it is lower among illegals alone ( which of course is only a guess), who the f cares? A single illegal committing crimes is too much. Ask the family of the woman burned to death in NY.
I am curious, Riva. Which Native American tribe(s) are you descended from?
The United States of America because my parents were US citizens.
You would be one of those Idiots that uses "Native Amurican" not even realizing how stupid you sound. "Amurican" is what everyone else in the World calls Citizens of the US (and "Yankee" which pisses Southerners off to no end, want to see an Ass Kicking? have some greasy Eye-talian dudes call a group of Marines from West Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, or Boston "Yankees" )
I was born in Atlanta GA, home of Delta Airlines, CNN, and Coca-Cola (2 out of 3 ain't bad (HT Meatloaf), which makes me a "Native Amurican", my mom was born in Dresden Germany, which makes her a "Native German"*. The term you're using is partially correct, as the Correct Term, is "Amurican Indians" (don't believe me? it's the "Bureau of Indian Affairs" not the "Bureau of Native Amurican Affairs" and Amurican Indians can also be Native Amuricans so they're that
Want to see some real Indians? go to an Indian Reservation (only during the day, and go well armed if you want to get out alive, just like it was 1876) in North or South Dakota,
and whatever you do, don't stop, even for the Tribal Po-Po, do like Clark Griswald
"See all the Blight Kids?"
Frank Drackman, Native Amurican
* Naturalized Citizen since 1965
PPS: for you Numbskulls, I say "Amurican" in tribute to Chris Matthews, because that's the way he said it before he got "Cancelled"
Where do you get that there are "native white Americans," Roger? The history of this continent is markedly to the contrary.
Look at the idiot who thinks humans evolved in North America!
Look at the idiot who thinks humans evolved.
Native White Americans are still the majority in the USA.
Natives didn’t fly the planes into the towers
Ilya, the Paul Krugman of VC and immigration.
Lol. I don't even read his stuff anymore. I see "Ilya" and "immigration" and I already know that it's a love letter to unrestrained invasion.
Does VC publish anything remotely interesting anymore?
You should demand a refund from Prof. Volokh.
Somin is now the worst. Bernstein used to be the most disliked, but now it is Somin.
That’s actually a compliment. You don’t understand it as such. But perhaps if I point it out, Somin will take it as such, at least from me.
The author makes a strong argument, but he does not persuade.
The Left seems to always ignore so many facets of this complex problem. Sure, we could mitigate some of the cost of integrating migrants into our society - but no matter how you spin the issue it is American Tax Dollars being spent on immigrants while Americans (who actually pay those taxes) have many issues that require tax dollars to solve; health insurance, homelessness, inflation, mental health crisis and obesity, to name a few. America must stop spending resources on people from other countries (at least) until we have our own house in order.
The author also suggests that migrant crime is so rare that it isn’t statistically significant. I suggest he speak to the families and friends of people who’ve been victimized by illegal aliens. Additionally, because illegal migrants don’t reliably report being the victim of crime, we have no idea how much migrant crime is happening.
The author also suggests it is unfair to punish an entire group of people for the crimes committed by a few members of that group. Well, the Left wants to outlaw certain firearms because a tiny percentage of gun owners use them illegally. Somehow punishing whole groups of Americans for the actions of a few is fine, but not illegal immigrants.
No, Sir, You are wrong about this issue. All countries need to have secure borders and immigration laws which are enforced without exception.
What America ACTUALLY needs is a political body that has the will to write legislation to address the problems that both you and I see clearly. What we DO NOT need is for politicians to continue to find creative, tricky, and morally questionable ways to skirt existing laws.
Mace
Why, will that change the data?
You're right, speaking to Floyd George's fambily doesn't change that he was a woman beating drug addict who's doing more for the world by being dead (not beating up women, contributing to the Global Warming that's not happening, helping to fertilize the soil) than he ever did alive.
Here's some "Data" which I know, is "Anecdotal"
The suspect involved in the fire is 33 year-old undocumented migrant Sebastian Zapeta.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesperson Jeff Carter told Newsweek: "Sebastian Zapeta-Calil, 33, is an unlawfully present Guatemalan citizen who entered the United States without admission by an immigration official. U.S. Border Patrol in Sonoita, Arizona, encountered Zapeta June 1, 2018, and served him with an order of expedited removal and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) removed Zapeta from the U.S. to Guatemala June 7, 2018.
What fire your asking? the one that killed a woman in New York, who they still haven't been able to identify.
Frank
It won't change lying with statistics.
It changes the way one interprets the flawed “data” crazy Dave, you monumental f’ing imbecile.
Your solution to "flawed" data is to surround it with anecdotes? That checks out.
“The author also suggests it is unfair to punish an entire group of people for the crimes committed by a few members of that group. Well, the Left wants to outlaw certain firearms because a tiny percentage of gun owners use them illegally. Somehow punishing whole groups of Americans for the actions of a few is fine, but not illegal immigrants.”
This is a tu quoque, and, given Somin is not part of “the Left” (he’s a long time member of the Federalist Society), a weird one to give in response here.
For many on the new right, "left" and "right" are defined in terms of Trumpian orthodoxy, not on the basis of genuine political or economic classifications. Hence someone in favour of light immigration restrictions, free markets and free trade, etc. will be called by new rightists as a "leftist" because these positions are antithetical to Trump's.
I tried to point this out two decades ago, long before Trump or even being on VC, with the definition of conservative as thinking there's value in established tradition, and liberal seeks large breaks with it.
A kibitzer said, "Wrong!" and then gave kitchen sink lists, trying to define them in terms of whatever the hell a "conservative" or "liberal" held as party positions, some of which were 180 degrees opposite to the above definition, of course. This is circular reasoning, like the study "proving" boys preferred to play with "boys' toys", and girls with "girls' toys", where said lists of toys were assembled by what they traditionally played with.
In today's context, Trump's use of protectionism for working man jobs is a feature of the far left, of Bernie, and Cesar Chavez.
Why he does it is not in question. Populism works. But it's not conservative.
"I tried to point this out two decades ago, long before Trump or even being on VC, with the definition of conservative as thinking there's value in established tradition, and liberal seeks large breaks with it."
Oh, come on. This is like saying that the right and the left were, and so must always be defined by which side of the room they sit on. The very words are "right" and "left", after all!
'Conservatives' could not be so defined past the moment the left won their first victory or else they'd transform into their own foes' champions on every front they lost.
Perhaps different names would be more appropriate, but don't confuse the name with the thing named.
And someone who has been a Republican for 20, 30, or 40 years will be called a "RINO" if they are not pro-Trump. Chip Roy, one of the most conservative members of Congress, was recently blasted by Trump as a "RINO" because he didn't support Trump's version of the spending bill. Liz Cheney, of course, despite not only being a lifelong Republican and serving in GOP leadership, is routinely called a RINO.
Liz Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris, and actively campaigned against the Republican Party. Not even a RINO. She is an ex-Republican.
She's a Republican who puts country over party. But she was called a RINO from the moment she publicly took on Trump over his coup attempt, years before she endorsed Harris.
That's right, she was a Republican in name only, at the time that she still claimed to be a Republican, but was preparing to endorse Democrats.
The copy-n-paste would be less obvious, Mace, if you'd insert blank lines between your paragraphs. More readable too.
A government exists ( or should anyway) in part to protect it's citizens. One way it protects it's citizens is to create an orderly way for people from other nations to immigrate there. And by orderly that means deciding who and how many may immigrate. Part of deciding who may immigrate is calculating the risk that those applying to immigrate may pose to it's citizens and to calculate that risk the possibility of crime and terrorism must be included and part of that calculation will include the region they are from.
Somin denies all of this. He wants open borders. He says you are immoral, if you object to terrorists and criminals moving into your neighborhood.
He says you are immoral, if you object to terrorists and criminals moving into your neighborhood.
So you think that letting white right-wing males move into your neighbourhood is immoral. Understood.
If they are terrorists and criminals, they belong in prison.
It is not true that Whites are likely murderers. Blacks commit murders at a much higher rate than Whites, no matter how you measure it.
but they mostly murder other Blacks, so there's that.
And whites are likely terrorists - they commit acts of terror at a much higher rate than blacks.
Yes, we're better with technology, sorry.
No. If you look at murders with multiple victims, Blacks do it at a higher rate.
Supporting facts?
This source says: "Blacks are about fifteen to twenty times more likely per capita than the rest of the population to carry out mass shootings."
https://www.unz.com/isteve/my-new-taki-column-straight-shooters-blacks-are-15-20-times-more-likely-to-be-mass-shooters/
If you count terrorists, it is a little trickier. Mangione is being charged with terrorism for the healthcare CEO murder, although it seems like just a simple murder to me.
How are you defining terror?
Agreed. And yet Trumpkins call them "political prisoners" if they are incarcerated.
behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt, but they couldn’t get in because of the wall and razor wire MEGAns erected and Herod captured them. Thus endeth this New Testament.
Well put.
Why the sudden hate on Megans?
If he really was Hey-Zeus he could have walked on the water right around the barriers, or heck, just ascend over them, or some other miracle shit.
Except that both Judea was a Roman province and Egypt was a Roman protectorate so immigration between the two countries was pretty open those days.
Was that your first clue that the comment was not historically accurate?
Great bit of Christmas blasphemy
First, they were fleeing from one part of the Roman Empire to another, not from one *country* to another.
Next, America does indeed have, in general, a solemn treaty obligation (1967 amendments to the 1951 refugee treaty) to protect certain defined rights of refugees, but to be a refugee you first have to have a "well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion" in the country you fled from.
Most migrants to the U. S. don't have a well founded fear of racial/religious/etc. persecution. Please note that *saying* you have a well-founded fear etc. doesn't mean you *do.* There's nothing in these treaties to imply that simply uttering the magic word "refugee" makes you a refugee. That would be silly. You need evidence.
For real refugees, it's illegal to send them back if their "life or freedom would be threatened" because of their religion, politics, race, etc. This is the famous Article 33 prohibition against expulsion ("refoulment").
But did you know that Art. 33 has a limitation? "The benefit of the present provision may not, however, be claimed by a refugee whom there are reasonable grounds for regarding as a danger to the security of the country in which he is, or who, having been convicted by a final judgement of a particularly serious crime, constitutes a danger to the community of that country."
So keep these things in mind before rushing to the defense of anyone who merely *claims* to be a refugee but hasn't proven his claim, or who is an economic migrant instead of a refugee, or who despite being a real refugee, is a serious danger to America based on his behavior.
Oh, hogwash!
Only if immigrants are an entirely voluntary group who want to be here and work for their future.
Not when the government provides free housing and food and cash to the lazy and criminals.
Not when government flies in refugees by the bucketload who have little choice in where they are settled and are disgusted by the society they end up in.
How many do we need to take in to deport this fool -- it's worth it!!!
I hear Pooty Poot Putin is extending the draft age to 65 and applies to anyone born in Mother Roosha no matter where they defected to
Look, if you are in favour of stringent immigration restrictions as a matter of principle, that's all you need to say. You don't need to justify your principles by resorting to misrepresenting or outright lying about data which show that the apparently pragmatic arguments you advance to support your principles are bullshit,
Somin is the one misrepresenting data here. He has never even updated his ranting points to address the dozens of times people have pointed out dishonest claims in his prior posts.
Nobody has done any such thing; they've just ranted and raved racistly. (Brett has at least tried to contend with the data, citing a CIS argument claiming that it's wrong, but he has repeatedly ignored the fact that this argument has itself been refuted.)
Not surprising is that the study that Somin was using to show that illegals committed crimes at a lower rate than the native born was for the period of 2013–22, four years under Trump. One reason that the statistics might not be accurate is that over the last 4 years (only two included in the study) there was no reason for illegals not to break the law. We routinely now see known criminals (and terrorists) being admitted, then readmitted to this country. Before that, and esp under Trump, jay walking got illegal immigrants deported. So, there was a significant incentive to keep their heads down, and not come to the attention of the police. Not anymore. So, Somin is using a study that compares apples to oranges.
And the first and second generation immigrants commit crimes at a higher rate. Somin does not include them.
There's a pretty simple reason for that generational change in crime rates: non-citizens are subject to getting deported if they commit crimes... not that Ilya the Lesser would ever admit that as a possibly good thing.
...of course the offspring of an illegal alien who dropped the baby on US soil doesn't count as an illegal due to the stupid concept of "birth right citizenship".
I don't think it's that. New third world immigrants tend to be more humble and appreciate their new lives, assuming we don't just open the borders willy nilly.
Their children, seeing how native white Americans have it better, get bitter and resentful.
People don't judge their situation in absolute terms, but by comparing to everyone else.
Jaywalking has never gotten anyone deported, and we do not in fact routinely see known criminals and terrorists being admitted and readmitted. (Here, by the way, is a list of all of the Americans killed by terrorists who have sneaked across the southern border: .)
"Americans killed by terrorists who have sneaked across the southern border"
I seem to recall that some of the 9/11 terrorists were illegal aliens, not because of sneaking in by the southern border, but because they'd overstayed their visas.
IF Crime and Terrorism aren't good reasons to restrict immigration, what *would* be?!?
There are many other good reasons. Overcrowding. Using resources. Increasing housing and other costs. Having undesirable views, habits, and customs. Taking American jobs. Being a nuisance.
Somin is an undesirable immigrant. He is not a criminal or a terrorist, but he is making the USA a worse place.
Things that aren't imaginary.
Yes, burning someone alive on a NYC subway is neither a crime or source of terror. Just another day.
How much of the hatred toward (brown) immigrants is driven by the need to have a disfavored group to look down on? Then-Senator Lyndon Johnson knew how powerful a motivator that was. His press secretary Bill Moyers has written:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/11/13/what-a-real-president-was-like/d483c1be-d0da-43b7-bde6-04e10106ff6c/
Senator Lyndon Johnson did not say 'colored man'. 🙂
Agree about the motivation.
I would not be surprised if Bill Moyers cleaned up LBJ's language. But I like to cite sources, and that is the quotation that the Washington Post attributed to Moyers.
At the time Moyers described (1960), referring to a colored person was considered polite. It has since become an anachronism. Curiously, "person of color" has not. That has long puzzled me.
How about how the “One Drop” rule, originated by White Peoples to deny peoples privileges is now used by peoples of color (and 1/1024 peoples of Color like Senator Poke-a-Hondas) to gain priviliges
I love to hate on LBJ's racism, but every DuckDuckGo search result I saw for "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best" has "colored man" following, so I think that's what he actually said in this case.
There is no way that that's what he actually said. Stenographers always like to clean things up for public consumption.
I'll go with Bumble here—I'm not sure your sources are worth a bucket of warm piss.
...which in several versions was changed to "warm spit".
Left unsaid, because I'm pretty sure most people here are aware of that VP John Nance Garner statement, describing his judgement of his own position.
Is my confidence in the commentariat misplaced?
LBJ was 100% right about that.
How many Coloreds and Lowest White Men did he sentence to get killed in Vietnam?
About 5,500 to 7500. Another myth that black men made up the majority of Vietnam casualties.
Was it even that many? Like today, the guys doing the actual fighting (i.e. not driving/fixing a truck, cooking food, typing on a computer) are predominantly White guys from Texas, Arkansas, South Boston, Queens, (OK, anywhere, one of the biggest "Red Neck" Marines I know is from San Fran Sissy Co) with High Screw-el Ed-jew-ma-cations, but they can skin a Buck, run a Trotline, give Moe-hammad a brand new asshole in his forehead.
Related: https://open.substack.com/pub/betonit/p/open-borders-and-adverse-selection
What really surprises me about that is that Kaplan says he hasn't heard the adverse selection argument before. Is he as bad at listening as Somin is?
Let me interpret what Ilya is saying : Because I am me, I don't care that I force you to accept criminals and terrorists. I am more important than you.
Right, Ilya.
It's easy for Somin to pontificate from Whitelandia.
How many Amuricans are killed by Illegal Aliens that aren't in the US? Wasn't there an ICE or DEA Agent shot and killed on US soil by a sniper in May-He-Co?? Shit, I can't even get into Canada without a passport, but Sleepy Joe let any Moe-hammad, Omar, or Abdulla just dance across and gave them free airfare and lodging.
Frank
Assuming, that as usual, Ilya is conflating illegal immigration (aka criminal border crossing) with legal immigration, 100% of the illegal immigrants are criminals.
Ilya is one who would claim theft is down because the government stops prosecuting theft.
Somin is the most repetitive blogger in the history of blogging. This is yet another post in which he says, "Here is a slightly different version of an article I've posted a thousand times, complete with the same arguments." Somin uses the favorite rhetorical devices of leftists, such as when an argument is refuted, just repeat it, only louder.
Not all migrants are created equal, a rather obvious proposition that Somin can't quite get his head around. Here, again arguing like a leftist, he pretends our only options are open borders or zero immigration. He is being intellectually dishonest when he attacks "severe restrictions" on immigration because he opposes ALL restrictions. Should the United States prohibit an alien with convictions for rape and murder in his country from entering the country? If you're thinking, "Everybody can agree on that," you'd be wrong about "everybody", because Somin would roll out the red carpet for him.
Many months ago, he posted a discussion he had with some British individuals, all immigration enthusiasts. (I imagine I may have been the only commenter here to listen to it). Even all of them were willing to accept at least modest restrictions. Except for Somin, of course. Somin's position on immigration is, frankly, a lunatic fringe position.
Not only is Somin repetitive, but he posts opinions that are extreme, anti-American, and contrary to the data he cites. He claims to have a moral position, when it would be harmful to a great many people.
Screening non-citizens who wish entry into the country is a normal function or a government. It is a reasonable way of limiting entry to people that we want to come in. It is fair to exclude people who have no immediate way to support themselves. It is fair to exclude people with mental health conditions. It is fair to exclude people with criminal records.
The story of the 33 year old Guatamalan man who lit a New York subway passenger afire and watched her burn shows one kind of person we want to keep out.
It is also fair to exclude Russian Marxists who are fundamentally opposed to the American way of life.
The Democrats threw a fit during Trump's first term about enforcing the "public charge" disqualifier.
They don't think it's fair to exclude people who can't support themselves, as they want permanent voting blocs.
What "kind of person" is that?
“According to recent UN data, approximately 117.3 million people worldwide are currently considered forcibly displaced due to persecution, conflict, and violence, which could be interpreted as being subject to life-threatening oppression…”
If 11 million illegal immigrants is a net positive to the US economy, just think how well we’d be doing if we could increase that by 10-fold!
All this sniveling weasel does is lie. No, Somin, West Virginia does not have a higher crime rate than Virginia.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/301549/us-crimes-committed-state/
WV is the 6th safest state in the country.
VA is 19th.
Somin is incapable of telling the truth. He’s a pathetic, lying, worthless, shell of a man with no ability to reason or engage in a critical thought.
Here though, he purposefully lied about WV to make an absurd point about global immigration.
I’ll be sending a complaint for academic dishonesty to Somin’s employers.
A Christmas Miracle!
The Rev. is back!
IIRC, the middle initial of the Rev. Kirkland that many commenters loved to hate was L. The content posted by "Rеv. Arthur I. Kirkland" is not reminiscent of the former commenter. I suspect we have a poseur.
A clever ruse? Time will tell. Open thread starts in 7 hours.
He is Risen!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see you back Arthur, Merry Christmas
That isn't him, which you'd realize if you bothered to pay attention to what you read.
Viriginia has more crime than West Virginia?
Almost like there's some basic difference between the 2 States, lets see, West Virginia is colder? more mountainous? Land Locked? I'll come to the answer eventually...
Professor Somin is welcome to make policy arguments in favor of more liberal immigration policies.
That said, I find myself wondering if one of the core theories of pragmatic conservativism - that change has to come in moderate increments because too much change coming all at once from all sides can cause a society to break apart and people to turn to demagogues - may have something of a point given the events we’ve witnessed over the last decade or so.
We may wish it weren’t so. We may wish societies as well as individuals could be a tabula rasa to be reformulated as we wish, according to whatever new values and with whatever new members we wish to impose. But it may well not be so. We’ve done a lot of wishful thinking over the last few decades because we’ve felt safe and took our safety for granted.
Decent argument, ReaderY.
My own pessimist’s Grand Theory of What The Fuck Happened™ is that it started with a truly epoch-shifting societal change wrought by internet the over the last couple decades: Instant, population-wide, interactive connectivity to reinforcement of mass prejudices.
This compares to the last such epoch-shift in information access: Johannes Gutenberg’s mid-13th century invention of the movable-type printing press...
• ...used by Martin Luther to mass-produce his 14th-century common-language Bibles,
• prompting an explosion of societal literacy, and
• a parallel expansion of demand and supply in the marketplace of ideas.
Obsessives of radically outlying views (common in this commentariat) once found little daily face-to-face support, depending on things like chain-mail letters forwarding mimeographed monthly conspiracist newsletters. Now, however, algorithms target and frictionlessly feed such unbound-from-reality obsessives, authoritative-feeling reinforcement—plus instant persistent links to a vastly greater population filtered for like-mindedness.
Starting as a crank few in absolute numbers, they began a matrix-enabled connection and perception of themselves as base-normal, and the rest of us living in what had for centuries been the normal world, as outliers.
The internet’s ubiquity and social media’s algorithmic stickiness led a larger number of receptive people with preexisting gut-level prejudices to suddenly cast off shame in a community of like-minded shamelessness. Thus, an electoral plurality of American citizens became citizens of a shameless MAGAnistan seeking revenge for problems less real than imagined. And thus, for the first time in centuries, the long arc of history globally begins a long-term bend away from justice.
It took centuries for global society to work through the Gutenberg/Luther impact (eventually reaching such positives as The Enlightenment). Perhaps our global adaptation to the internet won't take as long.
…but perhaps it will.
Gutenberg's invention was in the 15th century, not the 13th, and Luther was in the 16th, not the 14th. And Trump voters are not seeking revenge for imaginary problems. Just a return to normalcy, and away from the radical policies of open borders.
You and Mister Ed, so consistently sure of yourselves and so consistently, and so easily, demonstrably, wrong (I mean, a 30-second search on "what years are in the 15th century" would have identified your error.
So, Are you one of those who always move the century the wrong way, or did you just never learn that the 1900s ≠ the 19th century?
We're in the last week of 2024. Now think carefully...are we living in the 20th century, or the 21st?
And, thanks for the outstanding example of a citizen of a shameless MAGAnistan, algorithmically targeted with unbound-from-reality, authoritative-feeling reinforcement of preexisting prejudices, leading you to seek revenge for problems less real than imagined.
And, in that you are part of a 21st century American electoral plurality that really believes we have open borders (one of the simplest of your fantasies), a demonstration of the problem that shifts my chosen optimism-by-policy about America's future, closer to my natural pessimism-by-nature.
That was a great takedown of Roger S. Too bad he was right and you were wrong. 1401 to 1500 were the years of the 15th century. That means that the years 1501 to 1600 were the years of the 16th century.
This is why we live in the 21st century right now.
It’s been argued that there was an intermediate techtonic shift, and the advent of earlier forms of instant mass electronic communication like radio and film in the early 20th century permitted extremist movements like Nazism and Stalinism to engage in propaganda on an unprecentedly mass scale. According to this theory, intellectuals and other elites used to slower and less viscerally impactful forms of communications were caught by surprise, unable to successfully exploit or resist the impact of the new technologies.
Yes, I started out with that conventional wisdom as my past epoch-shift. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that as information providers...
• Point-to-point telephone and radio just gave us faster messengers.
• Movies didn't fundamentally change the story-telling model of books.
• Mass-audience broadcast radio and television expanded on but didn’t fundamentally change the model overnight print had established.
Their global societal impact of all of those (especially quickly produced current-events film) was certainly substantial, but I think not Gutenberg/Luther-epochal (of which the "explosion of literacy" may have been the biggest part). Others may think differently of course.
Our primary difference seems to be in your "too much change coming all at once" and my "Instant, population-wide, interactive connectivity to reinforcement of mass prejudices," as the primary factor in "WTF Happened?" That is, your factor is events precipitating change, while my factor is a new false perception of events.
• We've always had events.
• Our country and world are far better off now than has often been the case in the past.
• We've always had the people I describe (born and raised in rural Idaho, I know them well and can confirm Florida Man has nothing on Idaho Man).
I always assumed they were perhaps a loud 10-15% of society. But it turns out they've likely always been more like 30-40%. It's the internet's instant connectivity/reinforcing feedback spiral that brought them together, and their echosphere out not as a majority, but enough of a plurality to make a voting difference in the electoral system our founders gave us.
As I said, I hope this eventually works itself out in a way that it doesn't take centuries to get back to something like another Age of Reason. But I'm not optimistic about it.
On Christmas day, 87 comments when most posts aren't hitting double digits. Nothing like Somin on Immigration to bring out out the mob of usual suspects.
Well, Il Douche was noticeably absent (so far).
Hey, you and I made it! Merry Christmas!
...and Happy Boxing Day!
"Dramatic recent incidents have heightened calls to impose severe restrictions on immigration in order to curb crime and terrorism."
I call BS: Relatively few people think that properly vetted legal immigrants are a crime and terrorism threat. Will you never stop conflating legal and illegal immigrants?
It's as stupid as claiming that people who want to crack down on squatters are hostile to homeowners.
To Somin, anything less than open borders is a severe restriction.
As always, Brett pretends that anti-immigration people are anti-illegal immigration, when in fact they just hate immigrants. (Or at the very least non-European immigrants.)
Illegal immigrants do not become desirable just because someone like Pres. Biden tries to legalize them. So yes, the anti-immigration people are usually against some of the legal immigration.
QED.
You are right more often than you are wrong.
This is not one of those times. I am anti-illegal immigration. I am not anti immigration. I won't speak for him but I would bet Brett is also anti-illegal immigration and not anti immigration.
Absolutely; I'm actually married to a legal immigrant.
Of course, the open borders fanatics will claim that, if you just oppose illegal immigration, everything would be OK if we just got rid of our immigration laws, so that nobody would be an illegal immigrant.
Which solves the problem of illegal immigration the way banks could solve the problem of bank robbery by simply handing money voluntarily to anybody who asked for it.
We have immigration laws for a reason. Living in America is a scarce good. Enough people want to live here that if that weren't rationed somehow, the country would be ruined.
As I often say to Somin, while the Constitution didn't enact Spencer's Social Statistics, neither did it enact Rawls A Theory of Justice. Our government isn't obligated to operate according to the principles of universal utilitarianism. And, indeed, what are the first words of the Constitution?
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Ourselves, and our posterity. Not the whole of humanity.
Governments, if their very existence is to be defensible, must operate for the benefit of their citizenry, not the world in general. To be taxed and ordered about for your own good is bad enough, to have it done to you for the benefit of others? Inexcusable.
Accordingly, immigration policy, like all government policies, should aim at maximizing the benefit to existing citizens, with the welfare of others as only a side constraint. To that end, I advocate a cream skimming immigration policy: We should admit to the US, in numbers we can easily cope with, only those people whose admission maximally advances the welfare of people already lawfully living under the US government.
That will, generally, be already English literate, well educated, and law abiding people, who have compatible cultural values.
That somebody who fails to meet these criteria would benefit from coming here is irrelevant. Our government exists for our own benefit, not theirs. Or else it has no justification for existing at all.
The automatic response to this, by the way, is that I'm a racist who only wants immigration by white Europeans. Well, of course it's automatic, does the left have ANY arguments that don't boil down to accusing somebody of bigotry, usually without any evidence?
No, I'd be happy to admit, again in manageable numbers, anybody who met the above criteria, be they albino or black, Aleut or Asian, Zulu or pygmy. I care about the content of somebody's head, not the melanin content of their skin.
In fact, from a biological perspective, I think we'd benefit from some hybrid vigor. We should aim to be a nation of healthy mutts, if we were to have any aims in that regard. (Which we shouldn't, as a nation.)
A 'libertarian' who thinks that the government can figure out what admissions "maximally advances the welfare of people" in the U.S. You presumably would not say that we should only admit raw materials "whose admission maximally advances the welfare of people already lawfully living under the US government." You presumably would not say that we should only admit parts or manufactured goods "whose admission maximally advances the welfare of people already lawfully living under the US government."
Or rather, you would laugh at the idea that some people in Washington can determine the right quantity and type of imports that are best for the whole country. That's, like, what communist countries do.
I’ve generally made three main points in commenting on Mr. Somin’s immigration posts:
1. The Constitution very clearly lets the Federal government do whatever it wants regarding immigration. I don’t think Professor Somin’s constitutional arguments have merit.
2. As a policy matter, this country has had a long history of open immigration. Immigration has been open for most of this country’s history, and founders of our country from George Washington through Abraham Lincoln all thought it good policy. The idea that people seeking to enter our society are enemy invaders, or that people who support open or more liberal immigration are somehow committing treason against our country, not only has no foundation or merit, but goes against the foundational idea of constitutional Republics, that important policy matters are to be resolved by reasoned debate among people who regard each other as members of the same society, a common shared community, who merely disagree on a few things. Favoring liberal immigration is a legitimate policy position with a long history in this country, to be discussed with reasoned debate. People who regard those who disagree with them on policy matters like immigration as enemies of the country are the ones who are betraying our Republic’s foundational core.
3. All that said, I am personally somewhere in between Professor Somin’s completely open immigration and the people who would turn this country into a fortress and a police state in order to get rid of all the immigrants, and all their political opponents with them.
And of course that’s the real import of the “treason” rhetoric. All this talk about political opponents being traitors to the country, about a supposed war to the death between supposed real, pure and pure-bloodes Americans and a long list of supposed foreigneers and enemies and people of inferior blood, lays the foundations for eventually stripping political enemies of citizenship and deporting them along with the other “foreigners.” Or throwing them into concentration camps or simply shooting them.
We think we have a constitution capable of preventing these things. But people in the Weimar Republic thought they had a constitution too.
Like the Weimar constitution, our Constitution has loopholes that can be exploited. As one very simple route, a sufficiently controlled Congress can suspend the writ of habeas corpus and/or expand the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has managed to aggregate enough power to itself to make itself a vulnerability. Control it, and essentially anything goes.
As the Weimar Republic example shows, the overthrow of constitutional republics starts with words, with rhetoric demonizing political opponents and getting people used to the idea of their being treated as enemies. Words eventually lead to action.
"this country has had a long history of open immigration" -- Not true. Neither Washington nor Lincoln thought that it was good policy to let anyone immigrate to the USA.
-- Abraham Lincoln, 1861.
— George Washington, 1783
Interesting quotes, but they refer to White Europeans. Lincoln wanted to sent the Negroes to Africa. “I should not know what to do as to the existing institution [of slavery]. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land.” When Washington was President, he only allow White Christians to become citizens.
This last claim is made up on the Dr. Ed scale of made up facts. (It's doubly wrong, because of course the president plays no role in deciding who becomes citizens.)
We had an open borders policy, in effect, at a time when our population density was very low, and getting here was extremely difficult, and that difficulty itself amounted to a filter at our border.
Neither is true anymore. International travel is now cheaper than at any time in history, and our population density, when you only count inhabitable land, not deserts and parks, is plenty high enough for negative externalities to be appearing.
The author makes claims not supported by facts in evidence. For example, "The risks of immigrant terrorism is low." This broad and vague statement treats a large varied group with an all encompassing stereotype. Rates of terrorism by non-citizens in the United States, immigrants, is not uniform across ethnic, racial, or religious groups.
According to the Cato Institutes Terrorism and Immigration
A Risk Analysis, 1975–2022
August 22, 2023 • Policy Analysis No. 958
By Alex Nowrasteh
There were 219 foreign-born terrorists who planned, attempted, or carried out attacks on U.S. soil from 1975 through 2022. Of those, 67 percent were Islamists, 16 percent were foreign nationalists, 6 percent were right-wing extremists, 5 percent were non-Islamic religious terrorists, 4 percent were left-wing extremists, and the rest were separatists, adherents of other or unknown ideologies, or targeted worshippers of specific religions.
I'm sure that's true, but it does not in fact refute anything Prof. Somin said, let alone the specific comment you singled out.
Somin wants to let in all immigrants, and he is trying to portray them all as low risk. He is wrong. Immigrants are a big source of crime in the USA.
He does not want to let in all immigrants, and he is not trying to portray "them all" as low risk. And you are wrong. Immigrants are not a big source of crime in the USA. Right wing racist nepo-babies, on the other hand…
Yes. Somin specifically said "the risk of migrant terrorism is low." He bases the article's entire argument on this vague, ineffective premise. It is as if the September 11, 2001 attacks that killed three thousand people were just three terrorist attacks no different from any other three. The professor's argument borders on one of blind ideology.