The Volokh Conspiracy
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Calling for the Views of the President-Elect
[This post is co-authored by Will Baude and Richard Re and cross-posted at Re's Judicata.]
When a new presidential administration begins, the executive branch often changes position on some cases pending before the Supreme Court. But why wait till inauguration day to hear the views of the incoming administration?
The TikTok litigation casts this question in stark relief. The statute effectively banning TikTok goes into effect on January 19, the day before President-Elect Donald Trump is slated to begin his second presidential term. Recognizing that deadline, the justices have crafted an expedited briefing schedule with oral argument on January 10.
The Biden administration will of course litigate the case. But Trump has made public statements indicating that he may be more supportive of TikTok. In this situation, it might make sense for Trump to appear as an amicus. As the imminent president, he would hardly be a run-of-the mill friend of the court.
New administrations generally try not to change the executive's litigation position too much or too often, since doing so can undermine the Solicitor General's long-term credibility and draw attention to the political nature of the new position. Yet these changes do happen. And when they do, the new administration's views are often informative. The justices can be receptive to them.
For similar reasons, the justices might especially want to know the President-Elect's views on the TikTok case. For example, they might want to know how banning TikTok would interact with Trump's planned domestic and foreign policy plans. They might want to know whether and how the new administration will enforce the law starting January 20. Or they might simply be curious about what a different, new administration thinks about the question presented.
Of course, Amicus Trump would lack the formal trappings of office. For instance, he would not yet have taken his (second) oath of office or be fully in touch with the Nation's national security system. Yet even with those limitations there is significant room for judicial interest in the views of the future executive branch.
In the past, presidents-elect have generally avoided trying to openly disrupt the policies of their lame-duck predecessors before inauguration day. But that norm may already be fraying, as evidenced by Trump's stated views, and the logic behind it might be undermined in a time of sharp political polarization. If any incoming president would buck this norm, thereby creating a new one, it is Donald Trump.
It is even possible to imagine that the justices would invite Trump's views, essentially calling for the views of the president-elect (CVPE). Such a move would also have some appeal in cases like US v. Skrmetti, where the Biden administration's position is almost surely not the one that the Trump administration will or would adopt, and where the new administration's position might affect the viability of the case.
The appeal of a CVPE is at its apex in the Tiktok litigation, which involves a decision almost on the eve of a dramatic turnover in the Executive Branch.
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" . . . since doing so can undermine the Solicitor General's long-term credibility . . . "
Of course, in this case there is no credibility to undermine.
I’m confused. Didn’t Trump try to shut down Tik-Tok when he was President? Why would he support it now?
Trump switched positions earlier this year after meeting with a major investor, who then spent a lot money trying to get him reelected.
He flip-flopped on crypto for similar reasons.
To the extent that Tik-Tok has any association with China, this obstacle was apparently overcome after lobbying by that same major investor, and other tech bros.
Trump may say he wants to move manufacturing back to the US, but the bible, sneakers, and other merch that he was hawking during the campaign was mostly made in China. So, Trump is totally cool with China even beyond Tik-Tok.
Turns out Trump may not be much different than other recent republican presidents. They all got into office for broad reasons (often populist), but then just ultimately actually do only upper bracket tax cuts. The difference this time is that in addition to the upper bracket tax cuts, co-President Musk may also be able to pull off some amount of austerity. A complete bait and switch from the promises made.
In regard to the topic of this piece, yes Trump should tell his boys at scotus that he is cool with Tik-Tok now, and that the justices should stand down and provide whatever ruling that will leave Tik-Tok alone.
Because he had a TikTok account during the campaign which was very successful and is credited with his rise in support among young people.
The problem with this is that there's no preclusive effect to what he says prior to taking office. He can change positions on January 20th and, because he begins acting in a new capacity, cannot be held to his old ones in any regard. Indeed, the entity of Trump acting in his capacity as President does not currently exist at all as a person. Trump, acting in his personal capacity, does not speak for that legal person. There can be no finding of capriciousness, no estoppel, nor even a word of complaint from the courts.
It's even possible he dies before taking office and Vance takes a different position - should Vance also file an amicus? How far down the line of succession should that go?
How far down the line of succession should that go?
I would stop at the Secretary of Agriculture.
Many years ago, the National Lampoon ran an illustrated story in which Claude Brinegar, then Secretary of Transportation (then the junior cabinet position) plotted to reach the Oval Office. A riff on Kind Hearts and Coronets.
The buck stops with Kiefer Southerland.
We know that Trump changes position based on 1) who spoke to him last, 2) the possibility of profiting from the new position (probably the case here), or 3) what he saw on TV this morning.
I don't think that's entirely fair: (1) and (3) are the same thing from Trump's perspective.
At this point, I suspect Solicitors General can swear by their long-term credibility every bit as truthfully as Touchstone’s knight swore upon his honor in Shakespeare’s As You Like It.
I am unclear how Trump's views on TikTok or this law have any bearing on the question before the Court of whether the law violates TikTok's First Amendment rights.
The D.C. Circuit held that the law satisfied strict scrutiny in light of the importance of government’s interests implicated. So if the president doesn’t actually think there’s an important interest, that would undermine that position. I guess. I don’t know, I also don’t find this post all that compelling.
I don't find SCOTUS taking this case all that compelling. DC Circuit's analysis was perfectly fine and should have been the last word on the matter.
"(W)here an incoming administration reverses a previous administration's interpretation of statute simply because a new sheriff is in town, courts should verify if the statute bears such a fluid construction."
Prof. Josh Blackman, December 2016
There’s a constitutional order in this country. For the time being, unfortunately, the Biden shell is still the president and speaks for the executive, well in theory if not in the confused reality of whatever passes through the big guy’s mind these days.
I tend to thing that "one President a time" is a fortunate rule regardless of the specifics.
In seems to me like the potential for mischief in this approach far outweighs any possible benefits. If the court really thinks the new administration's position might be relevant, the better answer is to quietly stay the law and find an excuse to delay argument until the new administration is formally in place.
Kinda sheds a little light on Rule of Law vs Rule of Men.
Rulen of democracy. I'm no supporter of unrestricted, parliamentarian vox populi vox dei, but the creation of laws, and foreign policy, things The People assigned to their created government, are exactly what democracy is for.
Some things can be fast to unwind, like policy, others slow, like laws, though perhaps faster in practice as apparently just refusing to implement laws is a thing now. Do they even need to use the cover lie that finite resources are better spent elsewhere anymore?
The Rule of Law is supposed to typify objective understandable written laws, as opposed to subjective variable spur-of-the-moment Rule of Men.
Almost by definition, changing the interpretation of laws when the politicos change is Rule of Men, not Law.
"The Rule of Law is supposed to typify objective understandable written laws"
Except no existing human language is up to the task of laws with zero ambiguity. There will always be room for interpretation.
So this idealized conception of "the rule of law" is an impossibility.
And what does that have to do with laws so flexible that a change in political leadership reverses their meaning?
The Rule of Law is a fig leaf meant to allow the delusional to pretend the naughty bits don't exist.
Technically, we don't have a President-Elect yet, just a presumptive President-Elect. To the extent that soliciting the views of the President-Elect is a sensible concept, then you'd have to wait until January 6 when the electoral votes are counted/certified and there is a President-Elect. At which point its two weeks, if the changeover is relevant then they can just delay the proceedings for that long.
Exactly what I was going to say.
Under the law and the Constitution, Trump has the same status as I do: Zip, Nada. The Supreme Court may as well ask for the views of Vandalia.
The EC voted a few days back. Is this an official president elect now? Or do we have to wait for the "ceremomonial, purely ceremonial, I assure you" counting and acceptance by Congress?
It's not ceremonial. That's why Harris, as Vice-President, can reject all of Trump's Electoral College votes and declare herself president-elect, right? Right???
During her time announcing the tally, she should have next to her a big poster of the Jan. 6 rioters breaking through that door. She won't have to refer to it. It will shame every Republican in the chamber.
If the Republicans had any spine, they'd play recordings of the Capitol Police opening doors for them and escorting them around the building.
Muted.
It's a wonder you don't mute yourself.
As noted, he is not the president-elect until the electoral count is finalized. Then, he is not in office until January 20th.
His "future plans" will be determined by discussions with other people who are not in office yet. The whole thing seems rather theoretical. Plus, realistically, we know his plans are far from consistent and above board.
The value of an amicus here is far from clear but amicus of limited value are a dime a dozen these days so if he wants to toss one in, I guess it's okay. I think the justices would be wary of it though.
As noted, he is not the president-elect until the electoral count is finalized. Then, he is not in office until January 20th.
A House committee report regarding what would become the 20th Amendment said that the terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect", as used in Section 3 of that amendment, apply to the period between the Electoral College voting and noon on January 20 (this is assuming the EC vote results in a winner for each office). Based on that report, Trump is President-elect and Vance is Vice President-elect.
I'm more sympathetic to legislative history than Scalia and company but that is far from conclusive. Nonetheless, this report states that its conclusion is the majority opinion:
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44648
I am sympathetic to the minority opinion. The 12A sets forth a process for counting the electoral votes. They should be provisional until then. Nonetheless, "president-elect" and "vice-president-elect" are not like the earth's minerals with some natural exact meaning. Whatever the commonly understood meanings are would be the logical approach.
The minority opinion would mean Section 3 of the 20th Amendment would apply only to a two-week period between the electoral vote count and Inauguration Day. The majority opinion applies to a more meaningful amount of time (a month between the electors voting and Inauguration Day) and by the time of the 20th Amendment's adoption (January 23, 1933) the electoral vote count had long since become a formality. Nonetheless, Section 3 should have been clearer.
The minority opinion would mean Section 3 of the 20th Amendment would apply only to a two-week period between the electoral vote count and Inauguration Day.
The provision addresses a period "until" someone is qualified.
So, it would not just apply to that limited period. The show Veep had a subplot where a vice president-elect was acting president for her whole four-year term.
It is unclear why there is much more value in counting things from mid-December instead of early January. It is a few weeks. The president-elect is still going to only be in power on January 20th.
The electoral count is only a formality until something strange happens. We saw that 1/6/21. It could have again. For instance, if it turns out the president-elect is disqualified for some reason.
Strange things come up. That is partially why I think it makes sense to set it after Congress formally counts the vote. But, if the language is understood to be broader, and the public uses "president-elect" sometimes from Election Day, I'm fine with being corrected.
Musk owns a competititor platform. As a de factor advisor, this presents the appearance of a conflict of interest. May even be a reason they rushed arguments rather than granting a stay.
Nice! Musk is a competitor and so will get Tik Tok cancelled, another billionaire funded Trump and expanded him to the yoots on Tik Tok, so he'll save it!
Wheeeeee!
'de facto advisor' - nice term you invented there.
Conflicts if interest are for government officials, not private citizens.
Just for the record, the name of the private effort is "department of government efficiency', NOT 'Government Department of Efficiency'.
It is totally outside the federal government, which is why the left is losing their collective mind, as there is no bureaucratic maneuver they can pull to stifle the truths on X.
"Conflicts if interest are for government officials, not private citizens."
Interesting point. I've read a number of articles written under the premise that Muskaswamy is too ignorant of and unskilled with real government practices (what Ltbf calls The Deep State to have any meaningful impact. Here's the headline of such a piece from George Will in WaPo:
For an old guy with a lot of experience, George seems a real sucker for the long con. He should listen to Ltbf, who better understands both that the Department of Government Efficiency is not a federal Department—meaning Muskamaswamy holds no government position at all—and that their stated goal of cutting costs and reducing the size of government has zero credibility.
Elon depends on government largesse for the bulk of his reliable corporate cash income. Money-sink Xitter has devolved into the world's largest nazi crustpunk stripper joint and, for all its meme-stock-style market cap, Tesla isn't all that profitable.
On track by the end of the decade to become the largest Federal services contractor, what Elon wants is to shift the largest possible percentage of the $2trillion$ in government spending he says he and Vivek are targeting, from all those inefficient, nonresponsive, wasteful government agencies and contractors, to his and his fellow oligarchs' supremely efficient, oh so responsive, and definitely non-wasteful private-sector companies. And then go to Mars.
Over the next decade, Trump will encounter huge debt-load problems that Elon could take care of with pocket change—and just put Elon into a great position outside of government with their pesky auditors & IGs to point out to Trump and his sycophantic Congressional appropriator-vassals, just where and when to—oh so profitably (oops, I mean efficiently)—steer those funds to the oh so deserving private-sector Ubermenschen.
Long to be free holds a lot of irony for someone who so much wants the U.S. to become Muskaswamy's private Putin-esque oligarchy.
"since doing so can . . . draw attention to the political nature of the new position"
Of course, if the old position was based on politics, then changing might be de-politicizing the issue.
The Solicitor General can ask for Trump's opinion if she wants it. Otherwise it's Biden's fight.
This brings up a side issue I've thought about for a while. I don't think the SG should say they represent the United States. They should say they represent the respective Administration. Or maybe a hybrid of "We represent the United States by and through Joe Biden [or whoever], the current President of the United States." It would make things a lot more honest.
The reality is that the current SG isn't going to take a position that goes against the politics of the Biden Administration, and the same was true when Trump was president, and will be true again when he takes over. In fact, that's been true for a long time now. There's nothing any more special about asking for the views of "the United States" than there is about asking for the views of a political party or candidate for office. They simply aren't going to take a legal position that doesn't align with their political position, and it's disingenuous to claim otherwise.
This seems like much ado about nothing; Trump can already file an amicus brief if he wants — a couple of years ago, SCOTUS eliminated the requirement that the parties consent to the filing of such documents — and SCOTUS can give it as much or as little due attention as it merits.
There's nothing any more special about asking for the views of "the United States" than there is about asking for the views of a political party or candidate for office.
To the extent that particular bit of cynicism is accurate, as a practical matter, the nation needs new law to correct it. Among other things, perhaps without meaning to do it, you have just set to zero the significance of oaths of office.
An originalist view of American constitutionalism, at least, depends on a notion that the nation is ruled ultimately by the jointly sovereign People, not by the government, even less by a political party. There is actually quite a bit in the Constitution which is reliant on both the notion of oaths which mean something, and the notion of a continuously active sovereign which wields power greater than government's.
Without that latter one, your ability to vindicate personal rights would be at the mercy of a logical contradiction. How can it be good that the government is the party most likely to violate your rights, but also the only party you can turn to if you need to vindicate them. That is not the way the founders intended you to understand that question. More to the point, it is not the way the founders intended folks in office to understand that question.
Yes, it is. Even accepting the legal fiction of a joint popular sovereign, your conception is wrong. The people have delegated their power to the government via the constitution. As long as it remains in effect, the only party you can turn to is indeed the government. The people may retain a natural right of revolution if the government becomes destructive of its ends, but that is what such is: an extralegal right to overthrow the government, vindicable only by force.
SL, I agree with your sentiment while at the same time, we have to accept govt's role.
" . . . but also the only party you can turn to if you need to vindicate them."
I mean, we can't have 300+ million police or prosecutors or judges.
Oh heavens no! Can't let victims prosecute criminals. And private police might actually care about finding the right culprits and not violate civil rights the way government police do, since they couldn't depend on fellow government employees making up absolute and qualified immunity out of thin air.
apedad — The citizenship responsibility of the people of the United States is twofold. Individually, they act as subjects of government, and in that capacity must as you say accept the government's role. It is only during joint actions that the People can legitimately wield sovereign power, and thus reverse the arrow of authority, to empower, constrain, or compel government.
But there is no reason to suppose such joint actors endowed with sovereign power must always comprise the People as a whole, or even a majority of them, or even many of them. I understand that last insistence surprises many, so it deserves further explanation.
It would stand on its head the notion of sovereign power to insist that the nation's sovereign itself does not always remain at liberty to act at pleasure. Action at pleasure remains the defining characteristic of sovereignty.
Note also that no educated and thoughtful person asserts that the American government is empowered to act at pleasure. All know the Constitution forbids it. Thus, at a point where clarity is indispensable, to insist that the Constitution which the jointly sovereign People authored at pleasure to constrain their government, constrains also the sovereign People themselves, creates instead an unresolvable paradox.
If you suppose that is far-fetched, or seems too theoretical, that too is mistaken. Precedent to the contrary is an everyday occurrence. I will say more about that below.
Just as the People acting jointly as a whole can empower or constrain government officials, or bodies of government, to act with regard to designated government powers, so can the People acting as a whole empower subsets of their own number, to act with regard to designated sovereign powers. In either case, the principle is alike, and proceeds from the same source: the People's designees get power to act, but only under constraint of schemes of government created at pleasure by the jointly sovereign People acting as a whole. Such designees may not stray beyond those boundaries.
No power of government, nor anything else, can deprive the jointly sovereign People of their right to designate and empower actors to do the People's will. To insist otherwise opens a contest for the People's sovereignty.
Thus, a federal grand jury examples a properly authorized tribune of the sovereign People, exercising the designated sovereign power to punish, or to withhold punishment. The grand jury is not part of any branch of government, nor under the control of any branch.
Indictments handed down by federal grand juries should accordingly get deference from government officials and office holders. Courts ought not to claim any power to dismiss federal grand jury indictments out of hand, nor to block indictments which proceed from grand jury members acting on their own information and initiative. Nor can there be any power to require a government prosecutor to constrain a grand jury's initiative, or to legitimize its actions. A federal grand jury exercises legitimate sovereign power on its own.
Those principles are historical as well as theoretical. To this day they are memorialized in an instruction book presented by the government to every federal grand jury member upon commencement of service.
My intent with the discussion above has been to explain that federal grand juries example sovereign power, continuously active, exercised independently by small subsets of the sovereign People, according to and limited by a long-standing scheme of government, created by the jointly sovereign People acting as a whole, more than two centuries ago, and continuously in use since.
More generally, the principle of continuously active sovereign power was built into this nation's Constitution by its authors. Constitutionally required oaths for office holders example another such instance. There are more. Those who insist that the sovereign's legitimate power was delegated away at the outset, and ever since government has been effectively sovereign, continue in error. Widespread reliance on that error has become dangerous to the public life of the nation. It may even threaten the survival of American constitutionalism.
How except by present exercise of sovereign power could a government running outside its Constitutional constraints be reined in? Who would be foolish enough to suppose in such a case that government power would suffice?
They do not. The oaths officeholders take are to the constitution, not the "sovereign" people.
Lame circumvention, Nieporent, nothing more. There is no point to your distinction, unless you mean it literally. Which is to say faithless oaths get sworn to a lifeless document, powerless to approve, disapprove, or respond at all to enforce effectual performance which its text demands.
Your advocacy sets forth a rationalization to nullify oath requirements altogether. Franklin's famous warning was not, "A republic, if the Constitution can keep it."
Without effectual oaths, the Constitution is transformed into nothing more useful than a rusty fire alarm box on a utility pole. The impeachment power—which has seldom in history accomplished its intended objective, and no longer suggests even deterrent power—is that alarm box, at once the extreme case, and a forlorn hope.
Short of impeachment, without enforceable oaths the entire remaining body of the Constitution stands open to abuse with impunity. Government of enumerated powers, the Bill of Rights, separation of powers, rule of law, the power of the purse, and everything else all get the same ineffectual defense—government officers, appointees, and their cronies can swear smirking hypocrisy, then ignore every constraint, unless opponents command political power sufficient to impeach them, win convictions by supermajority votes, and throw them out of government. Is that really how you suppose the founders intended the Constitution to deliver reliable governance?
Whatever governance consequences emerge from today's chaos, the political peril the present case threatens is too great. The nation's dithering incapacity to respond has shown the danger to assume no power greater than government's is on call to constrain frontal challenges to American constitutionalism.
The remedy for oathbreaking is impeachment.
The remedy for oathbreaking is impeachment.
Nieporent — Which is to say, no practical remedy at all for flagrant, opportunistic Constitutional disregard. In fact, doing what you advocate already gutted American Constitutionalism to the point where impeachment itself became a political near-impossibility.
So you get spectacles like the one playing out in Washington right now, where everyone in Congress, and in an outgoing administration, and in an incoming administration, and in the American plutocracy, is trying to figure out how to play the angles when it looks like there is no Constitution at all.
If you want to take up arms and overthrow the government, go ahead and try. Otherwise, the remedy is impeachment.
"There is no point to your distinction"
Any vets want to chime in?
My military-adjacent sense is that the vets I know are pretty serious about the 'to the constitution' part; they aren't swearing fealty to the commander in chief, or your 'sovereign people', whatever that means. They are swearing to support and defend the Constitution, and IMHE take that oath pretty seriously.
Absaroka, the jointly sovereign People wrote the oath requirements into the Constitution. There is no daylight between the People and the Constitution they authored, except for the fact that the Constitution is inanimate, and thus incapable to judge whether a particular oath has been complied with or violated.
To exclude loyalty to the jointly sovereign People as an oath requirement is pointless, unless your aim is to thwart enforcement of the Constitution, or to install a rival sovereign in place of the People.
With respect to your vet friends, they are not the ones empowered to judge to whom they swear the oath, or whether they fulfill it. The oath was required of them by their sovereign, as a condition to be accepted into the sovereign's service. So the sovereign decides those questions. That is the way sovereignty works.
This is not about distrusting the career military—more the opposite. You have no need to bristle defensively. I have no doubt your vet friends honor their oaths either to a person, or nearly so.
An observation from one who in 1975 took his first lawfully binding oath to the U.S. Constitution:
Not every day do you see a 15-word line with more content than the 695 words preceding it.
An example along entertainingly similar lines (but briefer), from a framed commission in the Royal Canadian Navy. My roommate hung it on the otherwise-barren walls of our shared quarters in Haight-Ashbury, in 1967:
To all those to whom these presents may come, greetings. Know ye that the honorable Martin A. Bartlett III, having earned the especial faith and trust of her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II of England, has been appointed by her a Second Leftenant in Her Majesty's Royal Canadian Navy. Disobey him at your peril.
Bartlett, a lanky-but-imposing figure then in his mid-20s, owned a mattress on the floor, a small kitchen table, two rudimentary kitchen chairs, a small closet of clothes, a viola da gamba, and that situationally ironic commission. Plus, of course, a considerable stash of hash and LSD.
In the Bay Area, Bartlett studied musicology with Darius Milhaud, and jammed recreationally with our near-neighbors, The Grateful Dead. They had yet to release their first recording.
I met Bartlett when I responded to his bulletin board note:
Roommate wanted—preferably calm—to share sunny quarters at 815 Clayton Street.
"Calm," sounded particularly good to me. I had arrived in the Haight only a few hours previous, but my mind had already boggled at the spectacle.
Bartlett later became a professor of musicology in British Columbia, at Simon Fraser University. I number him among the most creative intellects I ever met. He died young, of AIDS.
Entertaining, well-told story. Love the little details ("a viola da gamba" !!). I might file off the serial numbers, repaint it, and borrow it sometime. And I deeply empathize with the preferably calm sentiment.
Not sure of the point though. Is that I would be a more quirkily interesting person if I didn't take my 1975 oath to the Constitution seriously? Or perhaps played the viola de gamba? (Again, not just viola, but de gamba![chef's kiss]).
Guess my musicological quirk will have to remain being a nearly lifelong chorister, beginning in 1961 as a seven-year-old sweet soprano with the Scottsdale Boys Choir, continuing through last weekend when my current choral grouped kicked off our winter concert series including a string quartet accompanying Gabriel Fauré's Cantique de Jean Racine (Fauré treats his basses very well) with only the standard viola & cello—neither fretfully de-gamba'd unfortunately.
NOw you say it : and where the new administration's position might affect the viability of the case.
Yet in the matter of Hunter's pardon you were silent. ISn't it likely that in several major things Biden said (lied -- because he did what he said he would not do) that the illegality is in the fact that the trial was conducted under the promise , the stated promise, that the President would not pardon.,
If law means anything the Biden record on the pardon , on tuition forgiveness, on Israel --- all call for invalidating results that depended on the trustworthiness of the President. Seems clear to me that the pardon must be unconstitional because the same President who said he would not pardon, did pardon.
This makes Brett's method of constitutional interpretation look coherent.
Nieporent, you have coined a 2-way truism. Your own comment is indeed incoherent, as it literally claims to be. And it does make Brett's method of constitutional interpretation look coherent.
Maybe get more sleep.
We have one POTUS at a time, and POTUS Biden is it.
CVPE is utterly meaningless. While I am glad that Professor Baude is testing out the idea, it is a very bad idea.
POTUS Biden can resolve this today by using a pen; sign the 90 day extension and let Pres Trump deal with it. Or not. His call.
By your own argument, Biden's pardon could be ruled unconstitutional in that all the Hunter proceedings were based on the Presidential promise not to pardon. Do you realize that?