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Judge Reed O'Connor's Remarks On Forum Selection and "Judge Shopping"
"Appearing to cave to criticism from commentators and political officials, this Judicial Conference proposal rejects the idea that there are no partisan judges—only judges doing their level best to faithfully apply the law to reach the correct decision."
I am pleased to pass on these remarks from Judge Reed O'Connor (NDTX). Yesterday, he opened the Federalist Society's 2024 Texas Chapters Conference in Fort Worth. Judge O'Connor addressed the topic of forum selection and "judge shopping," as well as and recent proposals from the Judicial Conference.
Welcome to the Fort Worth Division of the Northern District of Texas. Fort Worth is honored that the Federalist Society chose to hold its annual Texas Conference here.
I am confident you will find that Fort Worth is a very welcoming city. And, no, I don't mean for judge-shopping, as some like to think. I mean Fort Worth truly has a welcoming spirit.
For those who have seen the movie 12 Mighty Orphans, that orphanage was located in southeast Fort Worth. The book the movie was based on described "Fort Worth . . . as one of the friendliest places to downtrodden children in the hardest years of the Depression." That welcoming spirit remains just as strong today.
There is a lot of resilient history in this corner of Texas. Fort Worth was established in 1849 as an army outpost on a bluff overlooking the Trinity River. It has come a long way since then as it is now the 11th largest city in the United States—having just passed Austin—and was one of the fastest growing cities in the country last year.
Despite its size, Fort Worth resiliently maintains its small-town charm and original western heritage, as you can see in its historic Stockyards entertainment district and the Sid Richardson Museum in Sundance Square.
At the same time, Fort Worth also features first class cultural experiences in its incredible museums that boast works of art from the Renaissance to the 21st Century, including Michelangelo's very first painting, which hangs in the Kimbell Art Museum. That cultural experience also includes the world class Bass Performance Hall.
Situated in the heart of Fort Worth is the federal courthouse—a beautiful Depression-era WPA construction project that has been the venue for many historic cases.
In the exact courtroom in which I preside, former Texas Governor Coke Stevenson sued then-Congressman Lyndon B. Johnson over the primary results for the 1948 Democratic Senate primary. This decision was ultimately appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court where Justice Black ruled in Johnson's favor. And the rest is history, as Senator Johnson became Majority Leader, Vice President, and then President.
In the same courtroom, Judge David Belew, a World War 2 soldier who stormed the beaches of France and was shot on D-Day, presided over the longest aviation trial in U.S. history—spanning 14 months.
And in this courtroom Judge Terry Means handed down the first federal death sentence in the nation after its reinstatement as a punishment under the 1994 Federal Death Penalty Act.
These kinds of high-profile cases continue to be filed in this Division. Some of those cases impact the topics that will be debated today. Nothing too controversial, mind you—things like the line between governmental power and parental rights, First Amendment cases, and cases highlighting the tension between federal power and the power of border states.
Of course, decisions in cases like these often result in outside efforts to undermine public support for the judiciary from a host of commentators, so-called watchdogs, and even elected officials. But by design, federal judges were given life tenure so that the passions of the public would not influence them. It doesn't mean judges are immune from criticism. In fact, don't become a judge if you are uncomfortable with criticism.
But sometimes these decisions lead to threats and intimidation tactics directed at the presiding judges, or other acts designed to undermine the legitimacy of judges. We will hear from distinguished panelists today who will discuss the difference between legitimate criticism versus efforts to undermine the judiciary, along with the duty placed on those in the legal profession to defend the judiciary, and why that is important.
This discussion is critically important when these external efforts to undermine judges spark internal pressure within the judiciary. Just this year, in response to political pressure that named specific judges, the Judicial Conference took aim at single-judge divisions, especially those in Texas. Appearing to cave to criticism from commentators and political officials, this Judicial Conference proposal rejects the idea that there are no partisan judges—only judges doing their level best to faithfully apply the law to reach the correct decision.
Notably, the proposal did not target longstanding forum-shopping—or as Judge Jim Ho put it, forum-selling—in bankruptcy courts or patent venues. Such cases impact our economy in the billions of dollars and were recently highlighted only due to an embarrassing scandal. Yet the practice in these areas remain untouched by reform efforts given the absence of comparable political pressure from commentators and political officials.
Instead, the proposal focused entirely on remedies the Department of Justice, the world's largest law firm and regular forum shopper, complained of—that is, injunctions and vacaturs. The reason for this was clear: the Judicial Conference was responding to external political criticism.
Thankfully, judges and members of our profession pushed back, ensuring that heavier access-to-justice burdens aren't imposed on citizens in our district based solely on where they live. But this pressure remains a constant and will not ease up anytime soon. Indeed, it appears that the Judicial Conference Rules Committee intends to adopt a procedure mandating the case assignment guidance.
During such times, we are especially fortunate to be part of organizations like the Federalist Society, whose main purpose is to sponsor fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be. I think you will all agree that this purpose will be fulfilled by the great program today.
In our current climate of efforts to undermine the judiciary, and when law schools and law professors across the country increasingly teach students to presume malicious intention on the part of judges with whom they disagree, there is no place more resilient to host critical conversations about the judiciary than at this conference, in this circuit, and in this division.
Thank you all for being here in our great city, and for your continued commitment to the judicial system and to the people of the United States of America.
Welcome to Fort Worth!
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Let's assume that there are zero partisan judges, and that each judge does their level best to interpret and apply the law faithfully.
Even so, every judge has a way that they interpret the law (conservative originalism, liberal originalism, textual, living constitution, etc). Knowing this, lawyers should be able to pick a judge whose method of interpretation is most favorable to their client.
So even IF every single judge was non-partisan, we should still strive to eliminate forum shopping and have more random judge allocation to cases to ensure a more balanced application of the law.
It's more complicated than that.
First of all, there is forum shopping vs. judge shopping. If I'm in NY and suing someone in CA, I want to file in NY, because that is more convenient for me and puts more burden on the other side.
Related to that, some districts are known to be more friendly to one side or the other. In patent cases, the N.D.Cal. is known to be more friendly to patent defendants; the Texas districts, or at least some of them, to patent plaintiffs. Especially trolls. Which is why the trolls always try to bring their cases there, while the defendants try to move the cases to CA.
Second, some judges have actively tried to attract patent cases to their districts. Which suggests a bias in favor of the plaintiffs, since they are the ones who initially choose where to sue.
Whining oppression and liberal plots is as unsurprising as it is an ineffective argument.
A couple of fringe judges with the backing of the Fifth Circuit have put an already known issue in stark relief.
It’s not a partisan issue just some partisan news stories about new abuse of it.
Except the right, as with judicial ethics, is paranoid and self-oriented enough they think it’s a plot against them. So they resist any and all reform, or even discussions of the issue. (We can save discussion of why the rights been the main group finding new ways to abuse known issues for a different time)
That will stymie efforts for reform. Until it doesn’t. And the they e give up a seat at the table they call illegitimate.
I love how the Ninth Circuit was peachy for decades. But NOW --- NOW there is an issue.
That is hackery, in case you wondered. 100% hackery.
Deleted.
When you understand what the issue we're discussing is, come back and try again.
And what issue do you think you’re discussing ?
PS – You brought up the 5th Circuit. Consequently the storied hackery of the 9th over decades is entirely on point.
I did bring up the 5th circuit, as an aside. I guess I triggered damikesc's knee to jerk.
We're talking about judge shopping.
I guess you could say Circuit Courts are part of forum selection, but that's not the issue you or damikesc brought up re: Circuit Courts.
You are both talking about the 9th Circuit back in the day as a bulwark against complaining against the 5th.
And nothing else. Nothing about the OP or the thrust of my comment.
I made a grumpy aside, and you both saw only that and hard turned to a grievance contest.
1. I'm not buying.
2. What is wrong with you two?
Single judge divisions are a subset of judge shopping.
Forum shopping is another subset of judge shopping.
Both are discussed in the OP. As Judge O’Connor pointed out, the world champion forum shopper is the DOJ.
You wish to whine about one tiny little corner of the judge shopping problem, because it’s the tiny little corner that has begun to inconvenience your team. (After decades of successful forum shopping by lefty lawyers, which didn't bother you at all.)
What is “wrong” with me (and presumably damikesc) is that we can see the big picture, and consequently regard your focus on a tiny corner of it as special pleading.
Or to borrow your term – a liberal plot. “Let’s solve my problem, and y’all fuck off with yours.” Well, ditto.
You’re still not talking about forum shopping. (And WTF do you mean tiny little corner?)
I see what's wrong with you - you're too lazy to think about the issue the OP wants to minimize, but you still want to fight.
Well I’m off to do something else for a bit then.
I'm reminding you that there's more to the OP than your tiny little corner. Your tiny little corner is single judge divisions. Though you did have a general whine about "ethics" and the 5th circuit and whiny right (physician heal thyself.)
So you are hardly laser focussed. Or rather you're laser focussed on a pot pourri of minor injuries that you perceive you're suffering from. And entirely blind to the bigger picture. You are ultra sensitive to the minor injuries your ox is subjected to, and uninterested in the oxtail soup that the other guy's ox has been turned into.
Single judge divisions are a small problem. I'm happy for you to do the math, but I guess the Obama and Biden administrations have been inconvenienced by maybe a dozen cases brought before right wing judges in single judge divisions. Meanwhile Republican adminsitrations have been inconvenienced by hundreds of cases brought before reliably lefty judges in reliably lefty circuits.
Your prblem is a tiny one by comparison. I'm not saying it's not a problem. But I will worry about helping you to put a band aid on your toe as and when your guys stop trying to saw my leg off.
Perspective, it would appear, is what you seem to have a somewhat defective sense of.
You say the scope of the OP is vastly greater than what I'm talking about.
Then you don't talk about anything.
Except I guess some vague gesturing at liberal bias in some circuits. No hard numbers, or dates, or anything And no proof, just ipse dixit about lawsuits against Trump versus inconveniences against Biden.
That's not in the scope of what the OP is about.
And you did not support your out of scope whining with a serious argument.
And then you want to go after me because I wanted to talk about the OP.
Whaaa left wing bias in the refs.
Pathetic. Especially these days.
You should read the OP, it's doing the same thing from a different angle.
Does he actually believe any of the bullshit he said? I mean he was Exhibit A of the judicial partisan hack until Matt K came along.
“ During such times, we are especially fortunate to be part of organizations like the Federalist Society, whose main purpose is to sponsor fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be.”
I mean there’s zero way he believes this. Nobody inside or outside the Federalist Society believes that. So why is he saying this? What’s the point of this lie?
“We will hear from distinguished panelists today who will discuss the difference between legitimate criticism versus efforts to undermine the judiciary, along with the duty placed on those in the legal profession to defend the judiciary, and why that is important.”
Ahhhh okay you can criticize me as long as you don’t undermine me, and it’s every lawyer’s job to carry water for me. Lol fuck you. What a pathetically immature person.
Lol fuck you. What a pathetically immature person.
LTG – you described your own behavior.
There is no reason for you or anyone else to behave so immaturely.
He’s a federal judge with life-tenure who lacks any sense of self-awareness and is complaining about the public having a say in how he does things while demanding that people support him. I just told him to fuck off. Maybe swearing is immature but it’s definitely not as immature or pathetic as a whiner at a pity party of fellow whiners complaining he can’t exercise unlimited power.
I think that goes too far, he spent years as a successful lawyer before being nominated as a federal judge.
Of course he has self-awareness! He's fully aware that Conservatives are flocking to his district because they'll get a far more generous ruling than almost anywhere else in the US. But he's smart enough to deny that because if he says that out loud it will provide political ammunition to fix the issue and the cases will go to other judges who don't share his extreme political views and a willingness to rule based on them.
You’ve got me there.
Joe, you met effort with insults and a total lack of effort.
I do the not worth engaging insult as well, for Dr. Ed. types.
You seem to be willing to pull that trigger with an ever expanding group of commenters. You should consider why so many people you meet are assholes. There's a saying about that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLJrQj-ClMk
That your insult of choice is immaturity, when this is your response, is icing on the cake.
this Judicial Conference proposal rejects the idea that there are no partisan judge
Because they're not fools or liars. You correctly cite Matthew K. And Cannon is another example.
As we know, most Trump appointees are not in practice partisans. But there is a yawning gap between "most" and "all".
No longer able to win national elections, and unable to pass legislation even with a congessional majority, SCOTUS and judge shopping is the only way republicans can implement policy. So Blackman - our favorite Heritage insurrectionist - naturally defends it to the teeth
I’m inside the Federalist Society and I believe that. So do most of the people I know in my local chapters, as far as I can tell.
What is it you think we actually believe?
It’s a right-wing legal group promoting right-wing legal views. That’s its main purpose. It’s not to promote open debate. The members and leaders have a right-wing view of what the law ought to be and promote it through networking and advancing the careers of lawyers, judges, and professors who agree.
I know it. You know it. Everyone else knows it. If you can’t admit that you either have 1) such a stunning lack of self-awareness that it’s a wonder you can function in society or 2) a liar.
Jesus, the very program this post was about was set up for the purpose of complaining that the judicial conference was interfering in right-wing judging in Texas. The national convention is just a collection of right-wing lawyers cheering on right-wing judges and political appointees.
The entire UM ACKSHUALLY WE’RE A DEBATING SOCIETY schtick depends on people simply not knowing who is involved with FedSoc, reading what they write, listening to what they say, or noticing what they do. Unfortunately for them (and you) the people you’re trying to convince are lawyers, who for whatever flaws they have as a group and as individuals, generally know when something is disingenuous bullshit.
If you were putting the question of is the Federalist Society a conservative advocacy organization to a jury of lay people, we all know who would win. Y’all would get destroyed on cross. Just admit it and stop with the disingenuous bullshit, you’re honestly too smart for this.
What I said is that I sincerely and honestly believe what Judge O’Connor said he believes (which you claim he’s lying about): that the Federalist Society’s main purpose is to sponsor fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be.”
I agree that people who agree with that mission are more likely to be broadly right of center. Not, of course, that anyone is even required to agree with that mission statement to take part!
If you actually attend events with any regularity, you’ll notice that they don’t have any ideological throughline (because each speaker brings their own perspective), often are framed around a debate, and include robust discussion afterwards. It’s precisely for that reason that the organization attracts people like me and Judge O’Connor (who don’t agree about much else, including the main point of this talk), as well as (for instance) Josh Blackman, Orin Kerr, Ilya Somin, David Lat, and Adam Unikowksky.
Unfortunately, as you illustrate, some lawyers are as susceptible as anyone to illiberal, conspiratorial BlueAnon propaganda. Fortunately, it doesn’t seem to be catching on too widely.
“as anyone to illiberal, conspiratorial BlueAnon propaganda.”
The only people who say things like this are right-wingers. Like you have to be deep in right-wing onlineness to use the term “BlueAnon.”
At any rate you’re incorrect. My perception of the federalist society isn’t based on conspiracy theories, it’s from GOING TO THEIR EVENTS IN LAW SCHOOL. Like Jesus Christ dude, is being disingenuous some kind of sexual fetish for you? You’re not dealing with some rube commenter who you can convince with: well if you went to the events you’d know different. I know exactly what the organization is about. I knew the kids in law school in it and noticed how they all had connections to the Republican Party or ambitions to clerk for right-wing federal judges. I also noticed that the student leadership, particularly at the elite schools, ended up clerking for right-wing judges. I noticed that their speakers were all pushing a right-wing viewpoint and the debate consisted of getting whatever hapless lib professor wanted to be a “discussant” that day.
I’ve listened to or read the keynote speeches at the national convention. The speakers are right wing judges, politicians, and pundits, and they’re getting standing ovations when they assail the left. That’s super weird for a society whose purpose is open debate.
One final thought, you’re a litigator right? So surely you’ve read the circumstantial evidence boilerplate in jury instructions. You know the rain example? Where if you see it’s raining out the window it’s direct evidence of rain. And if you see someone come into the building in a wet raincoat with a wet umbrella that’s circumstantial evidence of rain. And how those forms of evidence are equally valid for proving a disputed fact? Even if we play whatever dumb semantic game you want about their mission statement and I have to concede I don’t have direct evidence about the organization’s purpose, the Federalist Society is clearly wearing a raincoat with an umbrella and dripping water all over the carpet. People have been found guilty of crimes or even executed on circumstantial evidence less convincing than what is out there demonstrating that the Federalist Society is a right-wing advocacy organization.
No need to get defensive, but I think you’ve lost the plot a bit.
No one is disputing that the Federalist Society mission—again, “ sponsor[ing] fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be”—is disproportionately attractive to people who can broadly be labeled as “the Right”, and that those people are over represented in the membership and leadership of the group.
But then the part where you think that me and Josh Blackman and Matthew Kacsmaryk and Jonathan Adler and Anthony Johnstone and Ted Olson are in some sinister plot to snow the American people while we pull the strings behind the scenes… well, it might be time to take a couple breaths, and maybe touch some grass.
I don’t think it’s a sinister plot, that implies it’s something secret. There’s no secret plan because the Federalist Society is openly a right wing advocacy organization. Members with slightly different views doesn’t change that. Most advocacy organizations have that. You could find different factions in pretty much any sufficiently large organization.
What pisses me off is disingenuous and pedantic dorks trying to play semantic games to pretend FedSoc is something else entirely.
But I suppose I shouldn’t be too mad because this shtick helps prove the point: if there’s one unifying theme to right-wing legal thought it’s taking a disingenuous and pedantic approach to legal interpretation to pretend one thing is something else entirely.
So, just to circle back real quick:
When you said:
What is it that you think we actually believe?
That it’s a right-wing advocacy organization promoting right-wing legal interpretation. And no one inside or outside actually believes its purpose is promoting open debate. Members just like to play disingenuous semantic games with its critics to pretend it’s not a right wing advocacy organization. But they know they’re just pretending.
Whose voice was silenced?
An interesting exchange with Nas. Informative.
Didn't know you were a Federalist, Noscitur. You're too smart and reasoned, I figured. Hmmm
the Federalist Society mission—again, “ sponsor[ing] fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be”—is disproportionately attractive to people who can broadly be labeled as “the Right”,
Oh come on. A liking for "open debate" is not disproportionately found on the right. Indeed, O'Connor himself seems to reject that notion when it comes to debating the decisions and qualifications of RW judges and nominees. Indeed, criticism or derbate there is undermining "public support for the judiciary."
And if what you describe is its mission why is it trying so hard to get the courts stuffed with RW activists? Indeed, why are so many laymen, like myself, familiar with the organization if it weren't for its highly political activities in the nominating process?
Get serious.
The Federalist Society contains multitudes. Ne negative by my eye, but of course it would be; and there's some positive stuff too.
-Legit debates, as I've seen linked on the VC
-Heritage v. Cato debates, as they put on at my law school. weird Overton window for those, but the pizza was good.
-Pushing originalism as the only legitimate method of interpretation, which has become caustic to Constitutional debate.
-A place for non-liberal legal academics to get some belonging and validation because lets face it their schools aren't gonna be that.
-A farm for judges with methodologies that align with the conservative ideals of the 1990s, but without much of a record.
-Legitimizing speakers like Barr to rant about liberal plots and secular agendas.
A lot of their backing used to be from the right, but the new MAGA right seems unsatisfied.
Now that there's a bunch of Federalist Society judges MAGA is demanding results that require shamelessness well beyond the methods and goals the Society was designed to develop judges for.
No big fallout yet, but I've got popcorn on standby.
Pizza? Are you accidentally aging yourself? I swear it was literally always Chick Fil A after certain cultural connotations emerged.
I was indeed some years out of law school and a baby lawyer by the time the Chik-Fil-A stuff broke.
Hahaha joke was on them. Chick-Fil-A is delicious.
What I said is that I sincerely and honestly believe what Judge O’Connor said he believes (which you claim he’s lying about): that the Federalist Society’s main purpose is to sponsor fair, serious, and open debate about protecting constitutional freedoms and the role of the courts in saying what the law is rather than what they wish it to be.”
I had a friend growing I had a friend who was part of a non-mainstream church. I asked him how his church's beliefs different from other Christian denominations, his answer was something like they followed the teachings of the bible.
Sure they say that they're trying to follow the constitution very faithfully, but I don't think you'll make a lot of friends if you take the militia part of the 2nd amendment too seriously.
More to the point, the Texas chapter seems to be sending a fairly clear political message with their choice of forum.
I think ultimately it’s about community…humans are social beings. There is about an 82% chance all religions are just made up…although if one is real it’s probably Islam.
Two good jokes :
Instead, the proposal focused entirely on remedies the Department of Justice, the world's largest law firm and regular forum shopper, complained of—that is, injunctions and vacaturs.
this Judicial Conference proposal rejects the idea that there are no partisan judges—only judges doing their level best to faithfully apply the law to reach the correct decision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1EhBdsTkl8
"only judges doing their level best to faithfully apply the law to reach the correct decision."
--or to make their Tesla stock go up
A judge who offers his court as a forum of choice to particular kinds of plaintiffs is pretty clearly saying that he will tend to give those plaintiffs more favorable rulings than other judges.
And a judge who makes it known that his court is friendly to patent trolls is offering patently trollish justice. It’s not implied or anything like that. It’s patent.
Apparently O'Connor (and Blackman) believe "there are no partisan judges" is a literal, descriptive statement of reality. Like, as soon as confirmation is final, each judge individually ascends to enlightenment in the moment and sheds any partisan bias.
Serial delusional liar is pleased to hear from serial delusional liar, more at 10.