The Volokh Conspiracy
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Security Clearance Denied for Watching Furry Porn Depicting Animated 16-Year-Olds
From Bierly v. Dep't of Defense, decided Wednesday by Judge Royce Lamberth (D.D.C.):
In 2020, Bierly was offered employment with the Air Force Joint Warfare Analysis Center in Dahlgren, Virginia as a Student Trainee. As a condition of his employment, Bierly was required to maintain a Top Secret with Special Compartmented Information (TS/SCI) security clearance, for which he was polygraphed by NSA investigators in February 2020. Starting in June 2020, Bierly began working for the Air Force in a probationary capacity….
In November 2022, the DCSA notified Bierly of its intent to revoke his security clearance pursuant to Security Executive Agent Directive (SEAD) 4, Guideline D, which provides for revocation on the basis of the subject's sexual behavior. DCSA's notification included a Statement of Reasons (SOR) document, explaining the agency's rationale for its preliminary revocation determination. The SOR indicated that, during his polygraph, Bierly admitted to viewing pornographic videos featuring "furries," which may refer either to real people wearing animal costumes or to animated images of anthropomorphic animals.
Bierly confessed that some of the furries in the videos he watched were depicted as minors as young as age 16. The SOR advised that Bierly's history of "engaging in criminal sexual behavior by viewing and masturbating to pornographic images of minors" and intent to continue doing so constituted a "security concern." For his part, Bierly objects to characterizing the videos as child pornography because they featured animated characters rather than actual 16-year-old people….
Bierly's constitutional claims are as follows: Count I claims that viewing animated furry pornography is protected speech under the First Amendment, and that DCSA's suspension of his security clearance therefore infringes this right.
Count II argues that DCSA's suspension of his security clearance abridges Bierly's First Amendment freedom to associate with others who share his political, religious and cultural beliefs. Count III contends that SEAD 4, which allows the DCSA to withhold clearance based on sexual behavior that "demonstrates a lack of judgment or discretion … or may subject the individual to undue influence of coercion, exploitation, or duress," is unconstitutionally overbroad under the First Amendment. Count IV challenges the same language in SEAD 4 as unconstitutionally vague. Count V is a substantive due process claim, arguing that the viewing of legal pornographic material is a protected liberty interest that the DCSA has wrongfully abridged. Count VI is a Fifth Amendment Equal Protection argument, alleging that the defendants have unequally and arbitrarily applied SEAD 4 against Bierly, and that this uneven application fails strict scrutiny….
The court avoided the substantive constitutional questions, in part because federal precedent provides that "the grant of security clearance to a particular employee … is committed by law to the appropriate agency of the Executive branch" and therefore "employment actions based on denial of security clearance are not subject to judicial review ….," especially when it comes to requests for injunctions seeking the grant of a clearance (to oversimplify in some measure).
The court also rejected Bierly's separate statutory claims under the Administrative Procedure Act, Freedom of Information Act, and Privacy Act. Note that Bierly's Complaint states that, "Mr. Bierly admitted to watching 16 year old Furry pornography when he was 15 years old, and the polygrapher used that age for all subsequent Furry pornography that Mr. Bierly admitted to watching," though that wouldn't affect, I think, the court's analysis.
The government is represented by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeremy S. Simon.
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He should have just said he was a Homo like Pete Booty-Judge and he’d be in like Flint, maybe even get a promotion
Actually, upwards of 3/4 of them, depending on which survey you look at, are *not* heterosexual.
Upwards of 3/4ths of homosexuals are not heterosexual? Finally Dr. Ed said something I can believe.
You are commingling bisexuals and others into your homosexual figure.
I am not in fact doing any such thing. I am mocking you.
Are you actually stupid enough to take the recent polls of 20% as anything but predominately social signalling? Wait, you're a proggy so being that stupid is a requirement.
in like Flint...
It's "in like Flynn" which is a reference to Errol Flynn.
You dare to question a Great Frankie Reference??? Well,
In Like Flint is a 1967 American spy fi comedy film directed by Gordon Douglas, the sequel to the parody spy film Our Man Flint (1966).
Now go get your effin' Shine Box!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank
That generation had James Coburn and Lee Marvin. This one has furry porn and I guess some other actors although their names escape me.
Here's the SEAD 4 guidelines: https://www.dni.gov/files/NCSC/documents/Regulations/SEAD-4-Adjudicative-Guidelines-U.pdf
And here's the page for the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA) of actual decisions for industry contractors.
The names are removed but you can still read what issues they had (illegal drugs, foreign influence, etc.).
Not all are denials.
https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industrial-Security-Clearance-Decisions/ISCR-Hearing-Decisions/2024-ISCR-Hearing/
Apedad, I have to ask "why him"?
I know that there are differing levels of classification and honestly don't care what the differences are, but you had Bradley Manning having/keeping a clearance, you have the schmuck who shot up the Navy Yard keeping his clearance even though he was clearly insane, and countless other WTF examples.
It's almost like they were handing out clearances in Cracker Jack boxes. So this guy shouldn't have one?
And the other three questions I ask are (a) if he was 15 when he was viewing Sci Fi porn of fictitious beings as young as 16, what's the issue, (b) assuming this was in a state like MA where the age of consent is 16, what is the issue?, and (c) what does age mean in terms of a fictional being anyway? It isn't like they are going through puberty with secondary sexual characteristics that you can see or anything...
It's like sex with mermaids -- which do not exist.
So how do you bust someone for underaged sex with a mermaid?
I think it was viewing the material while he had his clearance, not some time in the past. Good luck hiring any student these days who does not have a history of viewing some variety of porn.
in part because federal precedent provides that "the grant of security clearance to a particular employee … is committed by law to the appropriate agency of the Executive branch" and therefore "employment actions based on denial of security clearance are not subject to judicial review ….,"
Hmm. Why do I think that precedent might struggle if he had been denied security clearance for being, say, black ?
You might very well think wrong. See Chappell v. Wallace, 462 US 296 (1983), in which the US Supreme Court held that the courts will not entertain race discrimination cases against the military because of the military's special structure. I am well familiar with it because I had to distinguish it when I was representing a gay servicemember challenging the Pentagon's then-existing anti-gay ban.
The exclusion of such people from civil rights protection by the L..+ crowd is exactly what I find annoying about their special pleading. They think that sexual minorities stop with thm and their "+".
What "special pleading"?
For example, why do + require special protection in law?
Why the whining when a fluid person misgendered on the wrong day?
I think that you actually know what I mean.
A high ranking Army office once told me that while *he* had no gay soldiers in *his* unit (because he would have to do something), EVERY OTHER unit was "full of them" and no one cared because they "did their jobs and weren't problems" -- that most of the gay prosecutions were actually an expedient means of getting rid of a soldier who was a problem for OTHER REASONS -- e.g. drugs, malingering, theft, rape, etc.
It's much more difficult to prove the other stuff, and the outcome is the same (problem soldier gone) so you bust him for being gay. He's gone for that and situation is solved.
That, I was told, was what was behind almost all of the Army's gay prosecutions. The USN was different -- naval intelligence went off the deep end in this which is what caused the problems. Sure, gay servicepeople had to exercise discretion, but then officers do too. The sailor essentially dry humping his girlfriend on the wharf usually isn't that high ranking...
Remember folks, he doesn’t make things up!
Well, he's not making that one up. That was in fact our practice for years. At least until Clinton mucked it up.
It is certainly true that the military allowed some gay service members to remain in the service, even when it was illegal.
Dr. Ed having a high ranking officer friend who explained all that to him, on the other hand…
An example of the NCIS going overboard -- a female Marine officer sat through a sensitivity training where officers were told to buy flowers for their secretaries -- so she did, and got called a Lesbian for doing so. The USMC told her (and the other male officers) to do it.
That's an example of something, all right.
Well, then, when the President "thinks" something should be declassified, it inherently is...
I was under the impression the rationale here is that a record of questionable behavior made somebody a blackmail risk. It looks like they've neatly eliminated any possibility of blackmail by making the conduct public, so, what's the issue now?
Simply being a perv sure doesn't matter, Sam Brinton demonstrates that conclusively.
Sam Brinton should, in retrospect, have been denied a clearance on other grounds, but you're right, if someone can't be blackmailed because they are open about it, then it shouldn't be a factor.
The other argument I've heard is that the "questionable behavior" may be evidence of mental instability and therefore grounds to deny a clearance. But I haven't seen any actual data that any particular sexual preference correlates to mental instability.
"The other argument I’ve heard is that the “questionable behavior” may be evidence of mental instability and therefore grounds to deny a clearance."
And that argument applied ten times more to Brinton than this guy.
"But I haven’t seen any actual data that any particular sexual preference correlates to mental instability."
If there were such evidence, it would really be fighting a political headwind to get published in the current environment. There's plenty of such evidence for transgenderism, but that's not really a sexual preference, and it still gets downplayed.
But the issue is that we don't know how many transgendered, or whatever Brinton's orientation would be called, *don't* have mental instability issues and just quietly live their lives and do their jobs. You don't make national news for being mentally healthy and boring. You make national news when you do something outlandish. So there's a huge amount of confirmation bias brought about by what may or may not be only a small handful of people with that orientation.
For that matter, we don't even know what a majority of people find attractive and there is no reliable way to find out.
My own view is that there is so much diversity in people's sexual preferences that in the absence of good contrary data, the sensible assumption is that people like what they like, there is no accounting for taste, and that's that. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, but I would need to see more than an occasional flake who made headlines for doing something outlandish.
We don't have data on everything. Some decisions are subjective.
Like the old Far Side cartoons with the guy wearing a childrens' swim ring around his waist and a boot tied around his head, if I had a job applicant that went out dressed like that, even on his own time, I would lean against hiring him because it's weird.
Sam Brinton should have been treated the same way.
They did take Brinton's weirdness into account; It helped him get the job.
How nature says, "Do not touch."
What is and is not weird is highly subjective. I personally think male circumcision is weird, and if it were being done today for the very first time its adherents would be jailed for child sexual abuse, but because of its longevity most people don't bat an eye.
So anyway, you have a prospective employee who dresses like Sam Brinton, but only on his spare time, and you refuse to hire him because you think it's weird. But if you had hired him, he would have been a perfectly fine employee, and certainly better than the guy you ended up with. So, your personal preferences cost you, and the business.
I once had a job interview in which the boss asked me when was my birthday. When I told him, he said he couldn't hire me because he didn't get along with Virgos. From my standpoint, he had just told me he was a crackpot I was just as well off not working for.
Krychek_2 7 mins ago
"So anyway, you have a prospective employee who dresses like Sam Brinton, but only on his spare time, and you refuse to hire him because you think it’s weird. But if you had hired him, he would have been a perfectly fine employee, and certainly better than the guy you ended up with. So, your personal preferences cost you, and the business."
The probability of such a person being a problem employee and / or the probability of the such a person performing below expectations (significantly below expectations) is much higher than a normally functioning individual. Choosing not to hire such a person is a normal and rational business decision.
And you have data to back that up?
Individuals with behavioral issues (mental or otherwise) have much higher propensity to be problems, both in their personal life and as an employee.
Do you really need a citation?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9180763/
Not everyone accepts your assumption that it's a behavioral issue.
Krychek_2 37 mins ago
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Mute User
Not everyone accepts your assumption that it’s a behavioral issue.
Only those who choose to ignore reality.
Even so, It doesnt change the equation that an employee with those behavior characteristics have much higher probability of being problem employees or performing sub par.
Krychek_2 41 mins ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Not everyone accepts your assumption that it’s a behavioral issue.
I provide the data you requested and you choose to ignore the data you requested. Nice deflection
The link you provided was about mental health but you've offered no evidence that this is even a mental health issue, as opposed to a mere personal preference. You're just making broad assumptions that it's obvious (no it isn't) and that your view is the only objective reality (no it isn't).
OK, so you find it gross and disgusting. I find eating raw oysters gross and disgusting. But I don't make moral or mental health judgments about people who like raw oysters. They like what they like; I like what I like.
K2
the discussion is the whether individuals demonstrating mental health and other behavioral issues have poorer work performance - You asked for data - The title of the study directly covers the topic.
"Relationship between Employee Mental Health and Job Performance"
You instead choose to argue that behavior such as Sam Brinton is not a behavioral or mental health issue.
You are not making an argument based on facts or reality
It's a commonly-known fact to everyone who graduated high school that someone's attire at home has no bearing on their ability to perform their job while at work.
I'm surprised you wouldn't know this, pathological liar Joe_dallas.
Within some reasonable range of values for "someone's attire at home", anyway. Casual office attire at work doesn't mean you don't wear stained jeans and a torn t-shirt at home. If you're a guy and you wear women's clothing from luggage you steal at the airport, though?
Might just have some implications.
JC - you comment doesnt even remotely address the valid point I made.
Nor does it surprise me that you make no attempt to address the actual topic.
As I said, everyone who graduated high school already knows you're wrong.
Your point is therefore not valid.
Thanks for stopping by. You may now go fuck yourself as usual. 🙂
Proliferating F Bombs
fine display of your maturity issues
As I've explained numerous times previously, you come here with partisan lies spewing out of your mouth, with no other purpose than spreading hatred and misinformation, thinking that people aren't going to fact-check your bullshit (that's when you actually bother to cite anything at all).
You do it deliberately and without any remorse, so I will treat you as the piece of shit you have demonstrated yourself to be. I am not going to stop now, tomorrow, or next year, until or unless you stop acting like you deserve to be treated in such a way.
You and your sock puppet account(s) Sonja_T have earned the vitriol, and I am happy to oblige.
You didn't graduate high school.
Yes- JC has to throw out F Bombs to prove his educational bona fides.
How adorable, it's the other pea-in-a-pod dipshit come to defend his lyin' buddy!
Are you proud of yourself for defending lies and bigotry?
"What is and is not weird is highly subjective"
I'm with Krychek here. My wife and I have never had a TV. We think the height of fun is putting on heavy packs and going on week+ ski trips in the mountains, living in tents and snow caves in 20 below weather. I dilute coca-cola with water, it's just too strong straight up. Etc, etc, etc.
I agree I'm way too weird to be trusted with any secrets, but we are all weird in our own ways. If you exclude them all, no one will be left. Being exactly on the median for everything would be ... weird.
I used to wonder if being odd was bad, then I read a study of English eccentrics - and the Brit eccentrics are world class - that said eccentrics lived several years longer than average. Since then I have just rolled with it.
"So anyway, you have a prospective employee who dresses like Sam Brinton, but only on his spare time, and you refuse to hire him because you think it’s weird. But if you had hired him, he would have been a perfectly fine employee, and certainly better than the guy you ended up with. So, your personal preferences cost you, and the business."
If my subjective prediction of how well a person will perform is wrong, it costs me and the business? Sure. But the whole point of a subjective prediction is that I don't think it's wrong.
"If my subjective prediction of how well a person will perform is wrong, it costs me and the business? Sure. But the whole point of a subjective prediction is that I don’t think it’s wrong."
Agreed - The probability of your subjective judgment being correct is high.
“What is and is not weird is highly subjective. I personally think male circumcision is weird, and if it were being done today for the very first time its adherents would be jailed for child sexual abuse, but because of its longevity most people don’t bat an eye.”
Certainly true. I doubt I'd hire someone who did that to their child if there wasn't a longstanding tradition.
Well if you have sn employee who dresses like Sam Brinton, its because he's stealing women's luggage at the airport.
Correct, K_2. It is simple bigotry at work.
And I'm wondering how you confirm that an animated character is only 16; Did they show somebody their birth certificate in the cartoon?
Brett, the British got burnt badly by the Cambridge 5 in the 1950s. And then there was another one whom they knew was gay but he got caught in a Soviet Honeytrap.
That didn't help tolerance.
Is it just me or is it quite odd for a "student trainee" to be subjected to polygraph magic and given a "Top Secret with Special Compartmented Information" security clearance? It sure doesn't sound like something a student trainee should be near.
Also, why did this idiot admit to watching weird porn anyway? Polygraphs are ridiculous anyway, and they're surely even more ridiculous when used while asking anyone about their porn-watching habits?
Training for a TS/SCI job means exposure to TS/SCI information. Would you expose him to such information before he passes his security clearance? Suppose he fails the security clearance and you have to let him go. How do you get him to unlearn all the TS/SCI information he has been exposed to?
Such a person is a “student”? Doesn’t the US MOD promote people from less sensitive to more sensitive jobs?
Hugo — I know nothing about TS/SCI information, but I do know a bit about education & training. My experience is using fictitious but clearly black & white examples for starters, and then perhaps working into already dealt with real sitauations. (How hard would it be to make a nonclassified hypothetical from a real life situation?)
Doing this you screen out the unable, unwilling, and those you don’t want and then get TS/SCI for the rest and put them to work.
That’s how I’d do it…
Had an Intel guy (“S-2” in Authentic Military Gibberish) tell me that Polygraphs were more of an Intelligence test than anything else, anyone who would admit to things that might disqualify them were too stupid to be trusted with a clearance. That being said, the Marine Corpse S-2 Officers had to be some of the densest Jarheads I encountered, which is saying something, although the Corporals and Sergeants, who did the real work and gave the most thorough briefings were usually hot hard-bodies, so maybe they had more “Intelligence” than I gave them credit for.
An Example, the day after Ogrady got shot down, the S-2 Officer’s “Anal-lysis”??
“Umm, might be a little hairy today”
Then Corporal Jessica gave an hour briefing covering all of the newly discovered AAA sites, status of FRY alert aircraft, and locations of the various regular and irregular Serbian forces
Frank
Martin,
It is not odd. SCI access generally requires being fluttered.
Not odd at all. He would still be subject to "need to know" so it's not like he can just rifle freely through the files looking for nuclear codes.
What's odd is the UK, which polygraphs government-employed retail workers and forbids Dungeons & Dragons players from receiving clearances.
Not my field, but I’ve never heard of the UK government using polygraphs. People over here with top secret security clearances certainly get asked the same questions over and over again (i.e. every year, when the clearance needs to be renewed) to see if the answers match, which is annoying but not based on pseudoscience.
What’s odd is the UK, which polygraphs government-employed retail workers and forbids Dungeons & Dragons players from receiving clearances.
What, do they think that we (D&D players) take our fantasies of playing rogues too literally? Or that we'll try and steal classified info because we think that we can roll a nat 20 on our sleight of hand check?
Or maybe they think that we are playing "Satan's Game"...
polygraph magic
Precisely. It's bullshit under almost all circumstances - and deffo under these. AFAIC if you hire using polygraphs you'll over-hire sociopaths. Oh wait...
Sounds about right. People who can lie convincingly because, opposite to their claims, they don’t feel your pain. They don’t care what you think about them. Getting busted in a lie is not an embarrassment to avoid. It’s just an “Oh, well” risk of doing business.
This includes most top politicians, which is why they can lie convincingly. No hemming and hawing. You can go into a room with them, meet them, and “leave 5 minutes later thinking they’re your best friend you ever had.”
As krayt noted top politicians lie convincingly. fwiw, 20 odd years ago, I was involved in a forgery case where a handwriting analyst was the expert expert witness. She also claimed to be able to determine a reasonable evaluation of a persons personality traits based on handwriting (dubious in my opinion). Based on her analysis of handwriting, she described Reagan and Bush 1 at the high end of liars. She described Clinton as "off the charts".
I still recall the first time I heard (Bill) Clinton speaking. My BS meter immediately wrapped its needle around the peg and exploded in a shower of sparks.
I found it really disturbing, because I'm generally terrible at picking up subjective impressions, and this guy might as well have had a sign around his neck reading, "I'm a liar." And yet he was successful in politics!
I could only conclude that I wasn't the target audience, and if I had been?
I'd have been snowed as thoroughly as I later was by Harry Browne.
Brett thought Bill Clinton had bad vibes.
We are all shocked at this surprising revelation.
“I’m a liar.” And yet
The "yet" is surely unnecessary!
For me the one (attempted) politician who might as well have ridden in on a unicycle surrounding by dancing bears with a sign saying, "I'm a sociopath" was Carly Fiorina. It was unbelievably obvious.
Meanwhile, my take on Ted Cruz:
Cruz clerked for Luttig and then clerked for Rehnquist.
Its dubious that someone would have clerked for either of those two if your take on Cruz was true.
Its dubious that anyone would have clerked for any of the SC justices if your perception of Cruz represented reality.
Hahahaha holy shit.
“Ted Cruz can’t lack human empathy or be a sociopath because he clerked at SCOTUS for William Rehnquist” is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
I can't even figure out what the indicated take IS.
I saw Cruz at a candidate forum back in 2016. He was so oleaginous that you expected he'd leave an oil slick everywhere he went.
Those Sailor Moon cartoons do have the Boom Anime babes that make me think the wrong thing.
So he goes to court to tell the world that he's been perving and wacking? This is the new generation of Americans.
Well he certainly didn't have sex with that woman
So you wack in private. Big deal.
"So he goes to court to tell the world"
Yeah, that is somehow even weirder than his perversions. No job, let alone a modest paying government job, is worth this humiliation.
Security clearances are pretty big deals, even if the job you get one in itself isn't great. I've seen estimates between 20k-100k USD/year value depending on field of expertise.
I dunno if it's more or less of a Google Problem getting your name attached this than the other sort of 1000-year-old dragon (yes, there is Smaug fanart), but depending on how far the guy is into the fandom there's probably a point where he's already got 'difficult explanations during background check' difficulties.
Nonsense, Bob.
The inability to get a clearance can be a big impediment to getting to well paying jobs in the private sector.
He didn't originally go to court to tell the world. He only did after his security clearance was denied, for reasons that may be constitutionally permissible but otherwise seem totally incomprehensible. Watching this stuff at the age of 15 seems like pretty normal teenage behavior to me.
Surprised that Biden's administration did this. Sexual deviance is a positive to leftists.
Lol posting a this the day after:
Mark Robinson’s porn forum posts became public;
Further corroboration that Matt Gaetz was at a sex/drug party with a high schooler;
RFK Jr cheating on his third wife with a journalist forty years younger than him;
sure is something.
Are you a homosexual?
Why do you want to know?
You seem too emotional for a "guy."
You are so upset you want to do a holocaust on your political opponents, but I’m sure I’m the emotional one.
I believe he's looking for a date.
he really does sound like the same guy (it has to be a guy) who keeps fantasizing about hawt male-on-male action right here in the VC.
Oh! Forgot Chris Rufo’s Ashley Madison account.
and JD "couchfucker" Vance
(yeay yeah, it's fake, whatever. It's funny, and as legit as the whole "THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS" claptrap... maybe JD should stop inventing stories if he's offended by invented stories.)
And this.
Well, the court is right that you can be denied a security clearance for pretty much any reason or none and that ends the case. But the claim that animated anything is "illegal porn" is just silly.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/politics/jill-stein-nevada-supreme-court-ballot/index.html
Yeah an "unfortunate mistake" my asscrack.
Repubs sued to put her on. Dems to keep her off. Both pontificated the highest of noble philosophical principles!
Noble!
Situational Ethics: The high valuation of a philosphical principle when it supports your already-decided position, and the low valuation of it when it gets in the way of another.
The Republicans’ two-facedness is obvious to all. But the Democrats, party of all votes must be counted? Nooooo! Say it ain’t so. Ummm, Joe.
BTW, how is the clever use of government investigations, prosecutions, seizure of half a billion dollars, impeachments, all doing to keep your opponent off the ballot?
I’m sure some kibitzer will chime in with, “That’s supporting all valid, legal votes!”
I worked around that noble principle by working hard to declare the candidate invalid so nobody can vote for them and get in the way of our power. Sign here: __________________________
Print Name: ___________________________
Initial: _______
Date: ___________
“We have good lawyers to make sure the investigations dotted all the t’s and crossed all the i’s. Provide investigations that met 4th Amendment. Except for impeachments. And except for Congressional investigations for, umm, what was it again? Not to get an opponent. Oh, right. To study the effect of our laws so we can consider changes. Be careful not to leak anyth…oops!”
U the good guys! IKR?
BTW, don’t you hate it when the opposition hires clever lawyers who seek to use constitutional tricks and clever arguments to thwart the will of the majority?
"unfortunate mistake"
Wow, how can they get away with that? I wonder what sort of leftist judges in NV are aiding in this particular instance of widespread Democrat election cheating.
Because Jill Stein and the Greens are incompetent and have incompetent staff and attorneys who didn’t check things.
Sounds like they got their form directly from the SOS, who conveniently provided them the wrong form (whoopsie) and then later dinged them for using the form they provided. Democracy, "Democrat" style.
Democrats belong in Zyklon B showers.
That’s not a very nice thing to say, Senator Vance.
Yeah. Sounds like malpractice from Stein’s election attorneys.
So her attorneys had an independent obligation to make sure the form the government bureaucrats gave them were the right forms? How were they supposed to do that?
Yes. Lmao. Of course they did. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.
They could read it. Check it against prior forms that they’ve used. Or what other campaigns have submitted. This is basic competence and they failed.
How do you know the form was one you'd obviously know is wrong? Are you a government lawyer? You sound like one. You sound like the type of piece of shit that the IRS hires.
Election Forms are publicly available dumbass. So are rules. You can get on the phone and email and check things.
If you’re an attorney and you’re mystified by the concept of checking that things are correct you should probably be subject to discipline.
yeah, how dare we expect any lawyer to know anything about how the law works? Do they really have to read legal forms? Why should any lawyer have a professional responsibility to be competent? It's, like, so unfair, man!
You're an idiot. How do you know that the form, when read, would be readily apparent as the wrong one? Have you ever heard of older versions of the same form?
ope! explosive new allegations about Tim Walz:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/20/mark-robinson-black-nazi-porn-comments-tim-walz-satire/
A security clearance is a big deal, and it is amazing we still have the emotionally dysfunctional, culturally illiterate, sex obsessed puritan panty-drawer sniffers in charge of it.
If it were up to them Alan Turing would never have been in a position to win WW2 for us. Who knows how many other talented patriots they have buried over their hang ups?
Buried? Literally Alan Turing, who probably killed himself after getting caught and convicted later, and was given a choice of jail or chemical castration.
"chemical castration"
What we refer to today as "puberty blockers". And they do increase the risk of suicide.
Suppose that animated pornography represented a mature-looking young woman in a variety of sexual encounters. Suppose further that the character's age was not a significant point after she was introduced, that the animation was translated from another language, that the original audio identified the character as 16 years old (which is the legal age of consent and for porn in the originating country), and both the subtitles and dubbed English versions identified the character as 18 instead.
Out of the original, subtitled and dubbed versions, which would fall afoul of the CSAM concerns in this case? Does the answer depend on whether the viewer understands the foreign language?
This non-hypothetical law school exam question brought to you, of course, thanks to the Japanese.
The Japanese position is that, wait for it...
"They're just drawings, you moron. Ask me to get concerned when it's a real person."
But how the Japanese view the age Q isn't the issue; you just failed the law school exam.
How should that fact pattern impact a security clearance review in the US of A?
I'd have failed the law exam if I'd been silly enough to think that had any legal relevance in America, anyway.
Fortunately, I'm perfectly capable of thinking a legal position stupid, and yet somehow remembering it anyway.
I am wondering how anyone determined the age of an animated fictional furry. What does age even mean for such a thing?
Did you know that the character Fujiko Mine has been appearing on screen for over 50 years now?
For the age of the character, there's a lot of unlabelled content in the furry fandom, or worse a lot of stuff that's pretty questionably labeled ('what age is this character in the coming of age story' is a critic I'll point at both Blue Is The Warmest Color and a lot of furry coming of age stories). But there's also a number of works that have enough of a story line or external framing that it would be pretty clear, such as college entrance exams, identification cards, birthday cakes, 'stat pages', so on.
Or you'll see characters borrowed from works that do have ages stated clearly. See Brand New Animal (Michiru Kagemori /probably/ turns 18 in the fourth episode) or Zootopia (Judy Hopps is 25 after the opening ends) for cases where a female main character's age is explicit within the story and the character got pretty sizable fandom attention.
Whether that should be relevant is philosophically interesting, but the 2003 PROTECT Act means that where also obscenity this distinction can have legal relevance, though it's generally only enforced against the clear and especially unsympathetic cases.
How stupid. Do we want this weirdo working for us? No. In a position of responsibility and a security clearance? Double no. If we are really hard up, he could clean toilets.
Seems like that's how this discussion should go, in theory. Instead, we have a federal case. That seems absurd. And beyond that, the more frightening possibility to consider is that he might fit right in with some of the people running our government.
That’s a very strong endorsement of Josh Stein for governor.
I hope nobody here has ever gone to the Khajuraho temples in India.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/107455065@N04/12772513883/
The point of the article and the governmental guidance is the security clearances are at the discretion of the issuing authority. Everything rests on the individuals' actions or failures to act. Be mindful the just because one has a certain level of clearance, that does not imply access to the information. Back in the day, access required 'need to know' before access was granted. I used to have a secret clearance a century ago due to the fact that sone of the equipment that I worked with or issued had been classified. (clearance expired 1995). Much of the lapse's in classified document cases were the result of the individual exceeding their 'need to know' requirement and their supervisors' failure to report security lapses in a timely manner.
If someone is 'flaky' that should be a HUGE red flag.