The Volokh Conspiracy
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Lessons of the Haitian Migrant Cat Scare
Despite scaremongering to the contrary, Haitian immigrants don't eat cats, and have much lower crime rates than native-born Americans. There are some broader lessons to be learned from this epsode.

Over the last few days, there has been an uproar over claims by nativists and immigration restrictionists that Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio have been eating cats and other pets. Former President Donald Trump repeated those assertions in the recent presidential debate. As it turns out, the Ohio feline community can rest easy. Both local authorities in Springfield and Ohio's Republican governor say there is no evidence indicating that Haitian migrants in the area have eaten any cats or other pets. At the very least, if such things were happening routinely, we should have substantial evidence of it; and we don't.
More generally, as Cato Institute immigration policy expert Alex Nowrasteh documents, Haitian immigrants (both legal and illegal) actually have much lower crime rates than native-born Americans. And his data doesn't fully control for differences in age and sex; if it did, Haitian immigrants are likely to look even better, as recent immigrants tend to be younger and have a higher percentage of men than the general population (and young men have higher crime rates than other demographic groups). Other evidence shows they have a high rate of assimilation and income growth, which - despite mythology to the contrary - is actually true of recent immigrants, more generally.
There are some broader lessons to be learned from this sorry episode. First, it's important to look at aggregate data, rather than just focusing on a few individual incidents, that may be unrepresentative, even if they happened. As of 2022, there were over 730,000 Haitian immigrants in the United States, and the numbers have risen further since then, as a result of refugee flows generated by growing violence and economic crises in Haiti. With such a large group, it's almost inevitable there are going to be a few who commit terrible crimes. There may even be one or two who ate a cat at some point! But you can say the same thing about virtually any other large group, including native-born Americans, one of whom apparently really did recently kill and eat a cat. Before concluding that any group poses an unusually great risk, you have to look at aggregate data. By that standard, Haitian immigrants are actually less dangerous than native-born citizens.
Even if a group does have an unusually high crime rate, it will usually be wrong to discriminate against them based on racial or ethnic characteristics they have no control over. But at least in such cases we can plausibly argue there is a problem that might require a policy response. There is no such issue in the case of Haitians.
The cat-eating hysteria is even worse than the usual scenario of nativists holding an entire immigrant group responsible for the unrepresentative actions of a few members. Here, it appears the accusation was just totally false. But it is still an example of the more general problem of focusing on dramatic stories rather than more systematic data.
Second, it is a mistake to judge migrants by the state of their countries of origin, assuming that if the latter is awful, that means the migrants will create similar awfulness in their new homes. Haiti is one of the poorest and most violent societies in the Western Hemisphere. But that's not because Haitians are, by nature, somehow inherently violent and lazy. Rather, it's because Haiti has terrible political institutions. Given the chance to live and work in a society with better institutions, Haitian migrants do well, as most have in the US.
Indeed, the history of the US is in large part a history of immigrants arriving from societies with terrible political institutions, and doing well here. If you think that immigration replicates the conditions of the migrants' countries of origin, then the United States should long since have descended into stagnation and tyranny. After all, the vast majority of modern Americans are descendants of migrants from poor and oppressive societies. Yet, far from causing degradation, they have contributed to making American the wealthiest, freest, and most powerful nation in the world.
For a more detailed look at arguments that immigration causes institutional degradation, I recommend Alex Nowrasteh and Benjamin Powell's book, Wretched Refuse: The Political Economy of Immigration and Institutions. I consider some of these issues myself in Chapter 6 of my own book, Free to Move: Foot Voting, Migration, and Political Freedom.
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1) An incarceration rate is not a crime rate.
Did you abandon your list because you forgot what comes after "1," or because you realized your embarrassing mistake but decided to post it anyway?
I like how their ‘debunk’ is just denying what the residents are saying.
Haitians eating cats is an established custom at least in a certain subpopulation
Since its indisputable that Haitians eat cats in the homeland I don’t see whats so offensive or unbelievable about suggesting that they might be doing it again the US.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/zrr30/i_went_to_haiti_and_was_served_stewed_cat_i_can/
So, are you just ignoring that accusations of theft were an important part of the lie, or do you not consider being called a thief offensive?
Nobody cares about the supposed theft. The debate is over how racist it is to say Haitians eat cats when some of them undoubtedly do.
And for Springfield, undeniably catastrophic.
I guess that's what passes for a bot's attempt at humor.
I admit it’s not as categorically funny as thinking it’s possible to conclude that the killing of one’s political rival could benefit the country. Or maybe that’s cat shit crazy and not really funny at all?
For the record, though I certainly hope Trump burns in hell for all eternity someday, he is not in fact my political rival. Still not clear why you oppose Stauffenberg's attempt to kill Hitler, though.
Don’t quite understand your reference to Hitler when your bat shit crazy comment referred to President Trump. Are you making a bat shit crazy comparison to Hitler?
And I really don’t understand the caterwauling about my supposed opposition to Stauffenberg when I’ve never come out in opposition to Stauffenberg.
20,000 Third World parolees in a First World town of 58,000 would be catastrophic anywhere.
That’s really dumb. The debate isn’t about whether some Haitians somewhere eat cats, it’s about a charge Haitian migrants were stealing and eating people’s pet cats. It’s the difference between saying “dogs are eaten in some parts of the Philippines” and “those Filipinos’ in your neighborhood are going to try to eat your dog.”
Also, a common way bigotry works is through generalization (it’s why going from “black crime rates are higher than white crime rates” to “blacks want to rob and rape you” is considered bigoted).
Actually, I think the debate is over whether that a government official claims something didn't happen settles the matter, or whether that people come forward to say that, no, it DID happen, is something we should listen to.
Somin is solidly on the "Government denial categorically settles the matter" side of the argument. A strange place to find a libertarian, but I suppose the fact that they were illegal immigrants sealed the deal.
Remember yesterday how you were harping about "evidence" and I handed your ass to you on a platter?
https://www.newsguardrealitycheck.com/p/origins-haitians-eating-pets-claim
(Thanks OtisAH)
One more thing: They aren't illegal immigrants. I suppose for YOU that sealed the deal on your willingness to believe rank racist bullshit from the biggest liar America has ever known, without even a shred of evidence.
You people are a disease.
>They aren’t illegal immigrants
They aren’t immigrants at all, 1stein. They’re parolees, people otherwise ineligible for admission to the US. The government deals with them as though they are still at the border awaiting lawful admission.
TL,DR - THEY HAVEN’T BEEN LAWFULLY ADMITTED INTO THE U.S.
Actually, I think the debate is whether you should make wild slanderous accusations about an ethnic group with no evidence other than some random folks, who have no evidence, and may in fact just be trying to drum up hate against that ethnic group.
that people come forward to say that, no, it DID happen, is something we should listen to.
And who are these people saying it did happen? Aside from Trump and Vance, that is?
And here is your debate:
Random blogger: The Haitians are stealing and eating cats in Springfield.
Moderator: And how do you know this?
RB: (direct quote) “I’m not sure I’m the most credible source because I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat,”
Mayor: "We have no credible reports of this happening."
Moderator: What do the police say?
Mayor: They say there have been ZERO reports of animal killings and consumption.
What do other officials say:
Mayor: Well our Republican governor has also denied this is happening.
There's your fucking "debate," Brett. On the one side we have a random blogger who admits to knowing little about the whole thing, on the other, officials who are in position to know. But you go with the blogger because otherwise your side is spreading a dangerous lie - bomb threats, etc. and they would never do that.
You're scum.
That’s really dumb.
They’re not migrants.
They’re parolees who don’t qualify for lawful admission but have been allowed entry into the US by the Biden/Harris maladministration who are abusing Temporary Protected Status (TPS) as a de facto amnesty.
And, christopherrufo.com has a video of some cats on the barbie, if anyone wants some more proof of the practice. Now, admittedly Dayton and not Springfield, and apparently African migrants, not Haitians but WTF?
Cuban cops just beat down Tyreek Hill in Florida…that’s who we should deport!
Didn’t realize the “Local Authorities” and the “Governor” had some kind of magical knowledge of what happens to their local Cats. Most Haitians believe in Voodoo and they certainly don’t like Black Cats (or Work). You know what I don’t like? Tuberculosis and you won’t like it either if you get it, or almost as bad, test positive for it and have to take INH, Rifampin, or Doxycycline for a year. Especially this time of year, it’s rare to find a Haitian in Haiti without Malaria, and even if they have a clean peripheral smear (and INS doesn’t check that) the Plasmodia can stay incognito in the Liver for decades. Haitians should stay in Haiti, doing what Jay-Hay intended for them to do, make Baseballs (but apparently can’t play it, how many MLB players from the DR? and nary a one from Haiti) Funny how there's almost Zero Haitians in Martha's Vinyard, Berkley, or San Fran Sissy-Co
Frank
but Can they Work the Shift Key unLike Frank?
Apparently Haiti doesn't make Baseballs anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbNeYu7PVyU
(They should be great with the "Catgut" for Tennis Racket Strings)
Frank
Apparently Haiti doesn’t make Baseballs anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbNeYu7PVyU
(They should be have plenty of “Catgut” for Tennis Racket Strings)
Frank
The real story is how an ohio town suddenly became 1/3 Haitian but unfortunately the Dims have successful hijacked this into the cat nonsense which still doesn’t look good for them if you honestly appraised it.
Yes, if only the most prominent member of the Republican party had been given the opportunity to talk to the nation directly, so that he could framed it however he wanted.
Uh, the white hillbillies are all whacked out on drugs…didn’t you read Dreams from My Mamaw??
https://x.com/stillgray/status/1832576395387547945
Someone sure likes to eat cats.
That case was referenced in the OP.
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/woman-accused-killing-eating-cat-ohio-is-not-an-immigrant-was-born-canton/CNKQDHSCUVF75HKKPODXURQSXQ/
That cat-eater looks as if she could be from Haiti.
What I like about Roger S is nothing, but at least he's clear about his racism and antisemitism.
I'm with David.
"There may even be one or two who ate a cat at some point! But you can say the same thing about virtually any other large group, including native-born Americans, one of whom apparently really did recently kill and eat a cat."
At least one native-born American ate people. Namely, Jeffrey Dahmer. Damn those immigrants.
JD preferred the Dark Meat, until eventually the Dark Meat got JD
What about the late, great Hannibal Lecter?
Speaking of Jeffrey Dahmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGI5jhmoRhk
All but one of Dahmer's killings took place in Milwaukee, where Wisconsin does not have the death penalty. The first one, however, occurred in Ohio. Apparently authorities there decided not to seek the death penalty because of the tradition of the condemned prisoner being served whatever he chooses for his last meal.
[rim-shot]
and Ironically JD got the "Death Penalty" without an appeal
The claim that Haitians are killing and eating pets in Springfield, Ohio is likely exaggerated from a claim that immigrants killed and ate one goose from a community pond and another Facebook claim that a neighbor's daughter's friend's cat was eaten (and there is doubt that either story is true). More likely prank claims amplified by the internet and partisan politics.
And then repeated on tv by a cranky dotard running for President.
Trump actually could have made a good general point by just noticing the influx of migrants to Springfield and the strain it has put on many services there. But he can't help himself from saying something stupid at this point. He saw it on TV!
Why? Do you have evidence? Or just wishful thinking?
Evidence that the thing that there’s no good evidence of happening isn’t happening?
I'm not sure where you went to law school, but when I was there a million years ago we were taught that generally the person making the claim is obligated to prove it. (And "evidence" from Trump that he saw someone on television say that he heard from his mail carrier that the cousin of an old lady who lives on his route was told by a kid in a local convenience store that he heard that someone on the other side of town had a cat that was stolen, killed, and eaten most likely would not be admitted in court, at least not in the states in which I practiced.)
You're not wrong, and it's been that way for a very long time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
Sure. If Trump is making the claim that it happened, the burden is on him to prove it. But conversely, if you're actively claiming that it's false (and not just that Trump failed to prove it) you are now making your own claim and the burden is on you as well.
To repeat: Who cares? Let them eat cats.
Not only do you deny the blatant racism in Trump's latest rumor, but you then decide to endorse it.
You're raw filth.
It's not Trump's rumor, he may have repeated it, but it didn't originate with him.
Well, the "dogs" part was all Trump.
I didn't say it originated with him. He said it on national television because it fits his racist ideology and he gave zero fucks about deciding to fact-check it before spreading his anti-immigrant hatred.
It's his now. All his.
"It’s his now. All his."
No, it's not.
Powerful rebuttal!
I can see why you decided to not come around here very often anymore, lol.
Allow me to use your own methods to definitively prove you wrong.
"Yes, it is." BOOM.
"Allow me to use your own methods to definitively prove you wrong.
“Yes, it is.” BOOM."
LOL.
Blatant racism? Go to argument by leftists. Whatever the right does is racist, despite most leftists belonging to, and voting for candidates from the party of Trail of Tears, slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, and now DEI.
Haitian is not a race. It is people from a single country. I have talked to several Blacks about Haitians eating domestic animals, such as cats and ducks. They were just as appalled as everyone else is. They love their pets, just as much as everyone else or here, does.
So, shove it with your automatic calls of your political opponents being “racists”.
Trump has a decades-long history of racism, and Haiti is 95% Black.
So how about you fuck off with your excuses.
Like in the Great Twillight Episode "To Serve Man" "sooner or later you'll be on the Menu"
I'm pretty sure that the theft of other people's pets was a big part of why the lie went so viral.
"Haitians are buying up all the kittens at Petsmart and eating them!" probably wouldn't have gone as far.
Why buy them? you can get fully grown cats at the Animal Shelter for almost free.
True story here. In 1994 Bill Frist was running for his first term in the U. S. Senate. Several media then reported on a book he had written wherein Frist acknowledged that while in Medical School at Harvard, he went to animal shelters and pretended to adopt numerous cats, telling shelter personnel he intended to keep them as pets. In fact, he had run out of available lab animals for experiments at the Harvard lab and, racing to complete his thesis, he took the adopted cats home and then cut them up in a lab for research.
My daughter, who was then seven years old, was indignant when she heard the story. She said, "He should be charged with murder." I explained to her that murder only involves the killing of a human being. She thought for a minute and then declared, "Well, then he should be charged with catslaughter."
I see the usual suspects have themselves in knots. Too bad I muted them.
Point is, people around the world eat odd things. The French like snails. The Scots like stuffed sheep stomachs. Eastern European Jews eat jellied calves feet.
Here’s a website that lists 50 examples from around the world: https://www.hostelworld.com/blog/the-50-weirdest-foods-from-around-the-world/
So if some group likes Fluffy Fricasee, why should I care?
(The 50th entry on that site is for cats. No mention of Haitians, just China and Korea.)
Because they're importing them in mass quantities and forcing them into your neighborhood? You'll notice Ilya never volunteers his town to support the poor oppressed Palestinians because as long as it's someone else's problem then he gets to feel noble and good.
That's a different issue than what they eat. I agree that immigration has run amok and has to be controlled much better. But that has nothing to do with eating cats, ducks or whatever.
Nobody is "importing" anyone or "forcing" anyone into anyone's neighborhood. I know you people pine for the days when you could import black people, but these are people who chose to come here. And they chose to move to Springfield because there were jobs there.
Except that the federal government allowed them in, and transported them there.
The federal government did not in fact transport them there. It did "allow them in," which is not, in fact, the same thing as "importing" them.
USCIS plays a large role in where to place almost all refugees and asylees. That's not the problem. The problem is people who think their neighborhood is literally their neighborhood and they have any say in who does and doesn't live near them. Or, in this particularly absurd case, who's allowed to live near other people SJiN speaks for.
The point is, Trump wasn't talking about foreign cuisine and cultures. He was spreading a baseless, racist rumor that you're all-too-happy to excuse.
Pathetic.
The veracity of the rumor remains pending. But it's definitely not racist-- a Haitian can be white, black, latino, asian, or otherwise. If you hear something about Haitians and think of any particular race, that's on you.
According to Wikipedia, 95% of the Haitian population is black.
Does anyone think that Donald Trump and James Donald David Bowman Hamel Vance would be ginning up toward a predominantly white ethnic group?
So the rest aren't black, therefore a Haitian can be of any ethnicity, just as I said. I don't think we disagree on this topic. Famously, the founding generation after the Haitian Revolution included a bunch of Polish fighters and there's been various sources of other diversity throughout Haiti's run.
Anything about what what Donald Trump and whatever a "James Donald David Bowman Hamel Vance" would do if another ethnic group was rumored to be eating cats is, of course, entirely speculative and irrelevant.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what Trump and Vance meant.
Apart from how stupid your comment is about how thinking referring to a nationality that is 95% race A is likely a slight on race A says something about the thinker (by this logic well known racist comments about, say Africa are not racist as long as there’s one white African), I’m glad you concede Trump repeated this unproven rumor as fact on a national debate.
Except that the federal government allowed them in, and transported them there.
If you have them muted how did you see they were tied in knots?
Trump supporting makes even the not unhinged ignore or even support shameful stuff.
No big deal, you say.
But you still claim here and in the open thread the truth of this racist canard.
C'mon, you can lie better than that.
"I don't care" is not the same as "it's true." Even someone like you can understand that. Give us better lies, Sarcastro, this one is too easy.
People around the world eat things we consider weird. Whether or not Haitians eat cats, it does not matter.
(And yes, it is funny.)
“Now all the little cats and dogs will never more be seen.
They've all been ground to sausages in Johnny Verbeck’s machine!”
(1) A Hittite executive in an international corporation accepted a two-year assignment to the USA.
(2) He brought along his wife, who did not speak English. Soon after she arrived, he arranged for a colleague's wife to show her a supermarket. "See, the cans have pictures of what is inside. This can with a picture of tomatoes holds tomatoes."
(3) A week later, the newcomer's wife accosted her guide with a complaint: "I bought this tin with a picture of a dog, and it doesn't taste like dog at all!"
She was also quite disappointed about the Wheaties box with the picture of Serena Williams.
"Soylent Green is made of people."
Do Haitians eat cats? (the shocking truth)
byMASTR P.-March 27, 2019"Do Haitians eat cats, dogs, ducks, and geese" is among the top 10 most frequently asked questions of Haitians in elementary school, middle school, high school, college, and even professional settings.
Unfortunately, many Haitians feel uncomfortable answering this question. I, on the other hand, don't have this problem. I will spill the beans and let you in on this little secret.
Do they eat cats in Haiti?
Haitian eating cats
Don't be scared, kitty, we will not eat you.
Eating cat meat is not a daily or nationwide practice in Haiti. However, some Haitians eat cats on December 24th in a national festivity called "Reveyon", a big Christmas party.
This is exclusively known to a select group of Haitians found mostly in countryside villages.
byMASTR P.-March 27, 2019″Do
Do franks Know how to use theSpace bar?
That's my Cats fault, should I eat him?
"December 24th in a national festivity called “Reveyon”, a big Christmas party."
Santa is going to be very surprised this year when he reaches for the cookies!
Why do Haitians eat cats?
Contrary to popular belief, Haitians don't eat cats because they are poor and hungry. They eat cats because it's a tradition.
READ ALSO: Haitians got caught eating cats in Ohio.
Eating cats in Haiti is not a new habit but an old tradition that started in slavery.
For instance, runaway slaves hunted, killed, and ate wild cats deep in Haiti's forest and treacherous mountains many years before Haiti became a nation.
So the practice of eating cats is just as old as Haiti herself.
Do Haitians eat other types of animals?
Yes. Haitians eat cows, goats, sheep, chickens, pork, etc., but cat meat is a delicacy that many from the countryside simply can't resist.
Look...
...having a Reveyon without a cat is like celebrating Thanksgiving without a turkey. Unless you are a vegetarian, some just have to have it.
Why? Well, again, it's an old tradition.
Why is it legal to eat cats in Haiti?
Some Haitians eat cat's meat freely for three reasons:
There are no laws designed to prevent people from eating cats.
Most Haitians do not have a human-like relationship with their pets.
Some see cats just like pork, beef, and chicken. So there is no discrimination.
There is no preferential treatment. Meat is meat--whether it is from cats or any other large animals.
What does cat meat taste like?
Do Haitian eat cats
Meow! You know, I can see and hear you, right?
Cat meat actually tastes like chicken. A scientific explanation for this similarity is that because many animals evolve from a common ancestor, they often taste the same even when they smell differently.
When I tried it a few years ago, that was exactly my impression. But to discover if this is true, you must try it to draw your own conclusion.
Why are there no cats in Haiti?
It is a lie to claim there are no cats in Haiti.
Here is the truth:
Haitian's relationship with their pets is different from what you would typically see in North American or European homes.
While pet owners in those places may feel comfortable letting their pets in their homes or beds, in Haiti, the dynamic of the relationship is completely different.
For example, they use dogs to guard their home and cats to catch the mouse in their kitchen and gardens. However, this is where the interaction stops for most Haitians.
All that kissy-feely stuff you see people do with their pets in those North American and European countries is mostly unacceptable in Haiti.
If you see more dogs than cats in Haiti, know that it is not because they eat all the cats. It is just that dogs are cherished more because of their guardianship ability.
So Haitian families don't often take a pet into their homes just because they want to. No. They will get a cat or a dog based on the family's needs.
After he Masters the Shift keyandSpacebar Franks going to Work on Posting comments!
Wow, the goofs must know Trump stepped in it to be out in such force for him on this.
Another thing about Haitians, they haven’t really figured out Toilet Paper (maybe because they have no Trees in Haiti) Like the A-rabs they’ll just use their hand, cardboard, shingles (You’ve heard of the “Shit on a Shingle” in the Military?, the Haitians have it for real) in 1992, deployed to Guantanamo, Field Hospital supporting 6,000 Haitian “Migrants” the Logistics people couldn’t figure it out, week after week, they used no Toilet Paper, while the Amuricans went through tons of it. Turns out the Haitians wiped their asses with Rocks, threw them in a big Rockpile, and just reused them when they dried out, you can imagine the Smell. And here in Amurica TP’s expensive, so they probably haven’t changed their (Bowel) habits
Frank
Cats. Ducks. Toilet paper. Voodoo. Crime. The point remains that you would not want 20,000 Haitians moving into your neighborhood.
Better than living around Vance’s white trash family of violent skanky drug addicts!!
Or the S family
gag
????
He's talking about Roger S(chlafly).
Took Comparative Anatomy at Auburn 1982, we had to dissect Sharks, Frogs, Birds, Snakes, and yes,
Cats.
The Cats were from May-He-Co (Doing the Job Amurican Cat’s wouldn’t do) not a lick of fat on them, get the skin off and they looked like the picture in the Anatomy Book.
Professor's name was Gordon something, was from some country I'd never heard of, Mermac? and yes, used to joke about eating Cats.
Strangely, Comparative Anatomy wasn’t required for Pre-Med, it was mostly Nursing Students, most of whom liked Cats, and were XX, which was why I was taking it.
Frank
Wow, they still teach it,
https://bulletin.auburn.edu/coursesofinstruction/biol/
BIOL 3010 COMPARATIVE ANATOMY (4) LEC. 3. LAB. 1. Pr. BIOL 1030 or BIOL 1037. We will examine evolution of anatomical structures from early chordates through vertebrates (both living and extinct). Students will learn the main vertebrate taxa and how each anatomical system appears in them. Students will also examine the linkage of these systems through all vertebrates. The phylogenetic tree (evolutionary relationships of the vertebrates) will be the backbone on which we explore the diversity of anatomy. In lab, students will use and develop their integrative skills by examining the anatomy of a wide variety of organisms.
BIOL 3011 COMPARATIVE ANATOMY LABORATORY (1) LAB. 1. Pr. P/C BIOL 1030 or BIOL 1037. Laboratory to accompany Comparative Anatomy Lecture. This lab course will explore the diverse morphologies of vertebrates.
Since I have a cat problem I should vote for whoever will ban immigration from Haiti.
Amazing how deeply vested some of you are in this Haitian Cat Eaters Panic.
Phase 1: “OMG they’re stealing and eating pet cats!”
Phase 2: “We never said cats! It’s geese! My God, will no one think of the geese!”
Phase 3: “The stamps! They didn’t have a federal duck stamp! Our democracy is founded on duck stamps!”
In some parts of the country being over the bag limit is about as common as running a red light. Lewis and Clarke ate plentiful amounts of stampless duck and bragged about it. Yawn.
C'mon, man. Tabby a l'Orange. What could be better?
What's amazing about this story is that it was asserted in all seriousness by a former President and current major party candidate (with a good chance of winning) in a nationally televised debate.
Don't forget that not a single one of the Trump cultists on this site will admit:
1) It's a bald-faced lie.
2) It's racist.
3) It's unbecoming of someone who wants to be POTUS and they won't support him.
What have we seen? Rationalization, minimization, and people willing to be blatantly racist right alongside him because they have no ethical compass.
Any criticism of Haitians is racist. Either you are willing to accept Biden-Harris policies to make your town look more like Haiti, or you are a racist. Eating cats is not the worst thing about Haitians. Trump was being nice by just mentioning eating pets.
What is the worst thing about Haitians?
Haiti.
Yes.
The real lessons here, which Ilya missed, are:
1. Vance is a lying scumbag, who will say anything.
2. Trump supporters are all in on defending anything Trump says, no matter how ridiculous. IOW, they really are cultists.
Thanks for your usual sanity.
Sanity? You must be sarcastic. Somin favors harvesting human organs for profit, and open borders, so surely he favors bringing in people who eat dogs and cats.
Why the focus on cats? He said dogs too.
As a side note, there’s something grimly amusing about the thought of all the huckleberries furiously googling to find something to justify/excuse what Trump said that was, on its face, pretty batshit… But in the midst of their sweaty and desperate research… are the hucklers actually inadvertently exposing themselves to information about foreign culture, history, and culinary tradition?! Be careful fellas, you might learn something!
There's some great videos of random watch parties erupting in laughter at this point in the debate. Expect some footage to make it into George Conway's next PsychoPAC ads (the ones he runs solely in the Mar-a-Lago media market).
“ But that's not because Haitians are, by nature, somehow inherently violent and lazy. Rather, it's because Haiti has terrible political institutions. ” And part of the reason Haiti didn’t evolve better institutions was ruinous reparations forced on them by France.
Haiti has been independent since 1804, and has not had to pay reparations in decades. Whatever the reason, would you want to live in Haiti?
And France and the US have been interfering in Haiti ever since, not wishing to let the world see that ex-slaves can govern themselves
So no more subsidies?
So what political institutions does Haiti need, that it does not now have, and that will improve its condition? It's not like this is a new problem and I guess nothing has worked so far.
A return to slavery would probably improve Haiti. Not that anyone is advocating that.
Or we could build a natural gas pipeline to Cuba in return to Cuba having democratic elections and returning property to exiles. The Cuban economy would boom and Central Americans and Haitians would move there for jobs.
Cuber ain't letting in no Haitians, or Central Amuricans, they barely let us in. Didn't you ever watch "Scarface", or talk to an actual Cuban? they're worse than these old DAR Biddies in bragging about their ancestry
Good chance you could bait Trump into saying this. Great chance Vance has said or agreed with this on some freak’s podcast.
But this post and the Haitian thing generally is a good reminder that the ongoing party realignment is simply that dipshits with obvious personality disorders have self-sorted themselves into the American right. Or perhaps more accurately, sorting themselves against mainstream American liberalism because the hard left and Greens are also filled with anti-social dipshits.
So which institutions does Haiti need, again? If institutions make people and not the other way around, this shouldn’t be so difficult, surely. Just install the right institutions and Haiti will improve. It’s been more than 200 years since it became independent and it seems to be in a bad way.
Curse you Donald Trump! Only you can make professor somin seem so damn normal and agreeable. I miss arguing on here over government enforced broccoli
Ilya didn't give a shit about the people of Springfield Ohio until the cat meme starts popping up.
It's still clear that he only cares about 20,000 of the residents now, and the rest can go fuck themselves.
Nobody here wants 20,000 Haitians in their neighborhood, whether they eat dogs or not.
Why not? Do they make the place smell of curry?
The original "High Risk" Groups for AIDS were
1: Men who have Sex with Men
2: Hemophiliacs
3: Intravenous Drug Users
4: Haitians
Later it turned out most of the #4 Group were also in the #1 Group
Frank "What's the worst part about getting AIDS? Having to tell your parents you're Haitian"
OK, I get a lot of you don’t like Cats, (I don’t like Arabs, I’m funny about not liking Peoples who kill millions of my Peoples) If all of a sudden Arabs start vanishing in Springfield OH I’m cool with it.
What you might not like is when you get Leukemia, or need Open Heart Surgery, or get in a bad accident, and your local Trauma Center doesn’t have your type because Jean Pierre Baptiste sucked down 40 Units of PRBC’s when a herd of stray Cats attacked him, and your case gets cancelled.
Frank
Remember when Bush/Cheney sacrificed 7000 of our best and brightest to slaughter hundreds of thousands of Arabs?? Hate makes you do dumb things.
Your Peoples? Elderly doublePosting morons who cant use ShiftKeysandSpaceBars?
Even granting the dubious premise that Nowrasteh’s analysis is reliable, he’s using 2017 data. To the extent that the argument is that the Biden-Harris administration has improperly allowed in different, more dangerous immigrant from Haiti, this isn’t really contrary evidence. (Not, of course, that it’s evidence of the cat-eating thing either.)
Ding, ding, ding. The problem is not immigration per se, it is uncontrolled immigration.
Shame someone used their national platform to make this about eating dogs then isn’t it?
Yes, it's a shame the GOP chose a narcissistic, lazy buffoon as its standard bearer, when there were other, more qualified people it could have run.
And a bigger shame that the vast majority of GOP supporters chose to support "a narcissistic, lazy buffoon," no matter what, instead of exercising some small level of independent thought.
They deserve what they get.
the argument is that the Biden-Harris administration has improperly allowed in different, more dangerous immigrant from Haiti
This is the sort of thing that would, itself, require evidence before you could even get to the pet eating.
Yes, it would, and I agree that Trump didn’t exactly knock that out of the park. Just pointing out that Prof. Somin’s cite isn’t really evidence to the contrary.
And given that his earlier claim of low crime rates for illegal immigrants in general was based on a already debunked study, I have doubts about this one, too.
It was not, in fact, based on a debunked study. You've been told this repeatedly.
Anyone who went on record to say that they were from Ohio and their cat or dog had been eaten by a Haitian immigrant would be on the fast track to catturd levels of MAGA fame and fortune by now. The fact that no one is even willing to lie about seems significant.
What do you mean "on record?" Are they supposed to call a court reporter or something?
As my comments above indicate, IMO this whole thing is a ridiculous nothingburger, true or false.
Contact just about anyone in the MAGAsphere and say, “my name is X, and in DATE, a Haitian immigrant stole and ate my cat/dog.”
Edit: I originally forgot to include, “I live in Springfield, Ohio”, but honestly that’s probably not even necessary.
Wait, there are DOGS involved? That changes everything! You'll have to pry Rover out of my cold, dead hands!
Exactly. If indeed someone, immigrant or not, is eating cats, they are doing this country a great service. And doing their bit to protect songbird populations.
Yes, we get it: You'll excuse, minimize, and even support racism without a moment's hesitation.
You don't need to keep repeating yourself.
Didn't Christopher Rufo even offer a $5,000 reward? Still no takers.
Trump and Vance are no doubt now asking Rufo to stop "helping"...
N:
Good point.
I don't believe them nor do I really care, but there are people doing exactly that: https://www.instagram.com/p/C_zEiRfJdYO/
"Second, it is a mistake to judge migrants by the state of their countries of origin, assuming that if the latter is awful, that means the migrants will create similar awfulness in their new homes. Haiti is one of the poorest and most violent societies in the Western Hemisphere. But that's not because Haitians are, by nature, somehow inherently violent and lazy."
Upon what basis do you make this evidence free claim? They have had 3 centuries to create their own society and culture. The Dominicans have created a successful nation and culture on the same island!!!! Haiti is Haiti because of Haitians. They are still Hatians wherever they go because they LIKE and CHOOSE this culture. What else could explain 3 centuries of degeneracy, crime, and degradation? They rob people on mission trips for God's sake.
1. Can you elaborate on the mechanism that you think might make Haitians, by nature, somehow inherently violent and lazy?
2. Aren't the people who don't LIKE or CHOOSE this culture the ones most likely to try to leave for another country?
You are saying the Haitians who leave Haiti are more likely to choose not to be violent and lazy. And the ones who stay are choosing to be how they are.
No. Their behavior is a product of nature and nurture. And we do not want to import it into Ohio, whether they eat dogs or not.
It's not by nature. It's by culture. Radical Islam is a culture. The caste system is a culture. Japanese insularity is a culture. Russian paranoia is a culture. The Haitian culture is a tribalistic, warlord culture, which was the norm 300 years ago and before, but which most people's outgrew. Not the Hatians. Where is your evidence that they will every outgrow it?
First, you don't know much about history; 300 years ago, Haiti was Frenh.
Second, the fact that there are more than a million people of Haitian descent in the U.S.
Unsurprisingly, Reason's infestation of MAGAts are stretching their inbred brains to find reasons to believe the idiot propaganda.
I believe it's called an "invasion" these days.
I see all the white racists here have sharpened their knives. You know, I moved into a large mansion here in Cleveland. It was built by the Rockefeller family themselves. It has a grand staircase and over 3500 of floor space. And there wasn't a single thing wrong with it. So how did I end up in a mansion for $80k? Because the neighborhood is full of black people. So many mansions here (housing crisis?) for less than what I paid. But you hayseeds would give all this up just to make sure your grandbaby has the proper skin tone
How much are your heating bills??
Apparently not everyone wants to live in a neighborhood of Black people. Let in a bunch of Haitians, and the property values will do down more.
No, you racist asshole; property values have gone way up in Springfield as a result of all the Haitians moving in.
I hate to break it to you but even for people who don't mind black people Cleveland is not considered a desirable place to move to among the many options available.
man, and peoples say I make shit up
What is the number of your Euclid Avenue house?
In the early 1900s, Cleveland's Euclid Avenue was the epicenter of American wealth, with this great industrialists like the Rockefellers, Eastmans, and others residing there. Amazingly, 75 years later the neighborhood had become a wretched slum.
I offer this to lighten the discussion. I heard "Cat in Kettle" many years ago. Remember people we started talking about eating cats long before Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUl2MNHVUjo
Strategies for pushing the racist pet eating canard:
- Stick to some early source and repeat it over and over, regardless of what replies say
- 'It's true but no big deal. It's funny, actually!'
-Count authoritative sources as just drowned out by the tons of sources you handwaive into existence.
-Just complain about the left for even calling it out.
-Really double down on the racism to a supernatural/spiritual level. Voodoo, genetic predisposition to hoodoo, witchcraft, etc.
-My favorite is the bank shot - Haitians aren't black so even if it's a lie, it's not racist.
Seeing the word 'nativists' just plain freaks me out. There have been several times in US history that an explicitly or implicitly 'nativist' party or group or sentiment has taken hold and aimed racist opinions, and actions too, at an entire immigrant population. The Chinese in the 19th century, the Japanese in the 20th, Mexicans in the 20th, Catholics in the 19th, and of course Africans from the 17th to the 20th. One of the worst episodes occurred shortly before the Civil War and targeted the Irish in particular, who worked like hell when they got here and died in their thousands during that war. For these nativists Blacks were equally unpopular but also died fighting the Slave Power.
So I really don't want to hear from or about nativists, whoever they are, because they are despicable people who's chief tactic is spreading false fears about immigrants. And FYI, when I visited Haiti in 1997 I didn't see many cats or dogs. Why? Because most Haitians are too poor to own pets, and some starving Haitians probably did eat cats or dogs if they could find any to feed their children. You would too if you were hungry enough. And also FYI, when I visited China in 1977 I didn't see many cats or dogs. Why? Because most Chinese were too poor to own pets, and most of the cats and dogs had been eaten during worst famine years. And also FYI, in China in 1977 we talked to people who had been living in caves before the Revolution--saw some of those caves too.
One big problem is that most Americans know virtually nothing about poverty, never having experienced it themselves. Don't know how it feels when your children are living on a small bowl of rice every day and getting sick from vitamin and protein deprivation--and how it feels when your child dies of malnutrition. Don't know how to catch enough rats to feed a family. Have never seen the Cite Soleil in Port-au-Prince or the kids living on trash mountains in Brazil or the Philippines.
Another big problem is that we don't teach or learn enough about American history, warts and all. My guess is that most Americans seeing the word 'nativist' think of Native Americans. But maybe they don't. After all, we killed most of those people with guns and pathogens, so out of sight out of mind, right? Please don't try to tell me I'm being unpatriotic or anti-American when I talk about our history, because I grew up here and came back here from some pretty nice places. That's visceral, bred into the bone, but it doesn't make me want to lie or tell nothing to my children about who we were before they were born. Oh right, that's a homeschool MO, and I didn't go in for that.
I guess you think "nativist" is a slur, but it was used by Somin who is not native to the USA. He is a Russian Jewish immigrant who spends much of his time advocating for open borders.
Maybe most Americans know nothing about poverty, but that is not a good reason to import thousands of Haitians to Ohio.
If you know how to fix Haiti, that would be great.
Watch the left burst into flames as Trump’s comments about this become a winner for his campaign. It's meme gold for the ages and it's proving to ring truish.
Enjoy https://nypost.com/video/theyre-eating-the-dogs-meme-will-have-you-howling/
Lol
https://x.com/TexicanTrumpian/status/1834278263079981120?s=09
Funny yes. Helpful to Trump's campaign? Not so sure... they mostly remind me of Sarah Cooper's Trump memes back in 2020 that I think probably put Biden over the top, at least in Georgia...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RxDKW75ueIU
This is how normal Americans experienced the moment, in case you're confused... and why the memes are funny.
https://youtu.be/03Ha6juuUAg?si=kOnl9W4n6z5j-kVM&t=335
There’s no doubt this town has been agregiously victimized by democrat immigration policy, nor is there doubt that Haitians do in fact eat cats. The youngs are loving this meme and it entertains while shining a light on a reality the left wants to will away. The fact that Trump is a trip is not news but the increasing exposure of left wing gas lighting absolutely is…
Another asshole heard from.
another ad hominem.
You don't know what an ad hominem is.
My comment was an insult, certainly, and well-deserved, but not an ad hominem.
If I had written:
"Flooded's comment is wrong, because he's an asshole," that would be an ad hominem.
Egregiously that is 🙂
Another racist coward hiding behind a fake name because he'd rightfully get his ass beat otherwise.
For what it’s worth I am sympathetic to the terrible conditions in Haiti, and look, if the cat thing is part of the culture there, yeah it’s unsettling to my American sensitivities, but I suppose I can’t claim that it’s objectively wrong.
The point I’m making is that irrespective of pearl clutching about cats, it cannot be honestly argued that a sound justification exists for the general chaos Democrats have created for the people of of this town through terribly ill conceived immigration policy. Trump’s comments effectively illiminate the underlying truth of the whole thing in the form of comically bizzare memery. I submit that this shining light is the thing that actually has people on the left fired up about this.
“‘I’m not sure I’m the most credible source because I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat,’ Newton said about the rumor she had passed on to her neighbor, Lee, the Facebook poster. Newton explained to NewsGuard that the cat owner was ‘an acquaintance of a friend’ and that she heard about the supposed incident from that friend, who, in turn, learned about it from ‘a source that she had.’ Newton added: ‘I don’t have any proof.”
Yeah. So, some folks tracked down the source of this nonsense. Included in the link below is a screenshot of the original Facebook post. If you can read that without instantly recognizing the many bits of ignorant, xenophobic, racist bullshit jammed into a sentence or two, you’re a Trump supporter and should not be allowed in public without adult supervision who has power of attorney over your affairs.
https://www.newsguardrealitycheck.com/p/origins-haitians-eating-pets-claim
“Despite extensive news coverage debunking the pet claims that she helped propel into the national discourse with a Facebook post, Lee said that she has not followed the story closely. ‘Actually, I haven’t really been following the news much on it at all,’ she said. ‘I’ve only really seen it like on Facebook, what things pop up on my news feed, or what other people have shared on things that they have read up on.’”
Delightful. Truly splendid. No notes.
“Did I do thaaat?”
- Urkel
I would have thought that one of the lessons here would be that there is a sort of Gresham's Law for disinformation/misinformation. The good does not drive out the bad, the truth fights a losing battle against the lie, and no amount of free speech can shut down the lie once it's been uttered.
Well, that IS the left's argument for censorship, certainly.
This comments thread would make any reasonable observer think that it's not an unfair argument.
Well, it would make any 'liberal' think that.
Naturally, you believe what you believe. And if free and unfettered debate doesn't change your mind, but it does result in the majority adopting the opposite opinion from you, what is there to conclude?
That you were wrong to not change your mind? Yeah, as if that would happen. No, you'll conclude that free and unfettered debate doesn't always lead to the truth.
You know what I think? Free and unfettered debate really DOESN'T always lead to the truth, and frequently doesn't in the short run. I have no problem admitting this is the case. I think it's obviously true. Why would free and unfettered debate be the only thing in the world that works 100% of the time???
But, what follows from that? That unfree and fettered debate has a BETTER chance to arrive at the truth? Don't make me laugh!
Why in the world would anyone, after all of recorded history, think that the job of censor would reliably end up filled by high minded rationalists who cared only about the truth? What could possibly make you expect that?
No, the truth is we oppose censorship, not because the lack of censorship guarantees that the truth will win out, but instead because censorship makes it a lot easier for the lies to win out. The truth won't always win a free and fair debate, but a free and fair debate still gives you the best chance that it will.
The mistake you and the right are making, Brett, is thinking that “free and unfettered debate” is the right approach to factual questions.
Factual questions have answers. You either know the answer or you don’t. If you don’t know the answer, debating isn’t going to help. What you need is research.
Research depends on institutions. You’re not going to travel to Springfield yourself and study the pet population and the eating habits of the Haitians there. Instead you look for credible reporting.
The right has spent a lot of time sewing doubt about institutions for the sole purpose of keeping you from figuring out the answers to factual questions.
Credible reporting about factual questions cannot be replaced by “free and unfettered debate.” A bunch of uninformed people speculating is how you end up with the flat-earth society. It’s not the way to the truth, censorship or no. The only way to the truth in the modern world is trusted institutions that are capable of doing the research.
+1. Fantastic comment!
See the story on the main site about the FDA deciding which foods get the "healthy" label. The trusted institutions are not always correct either, even if they aren't acting purposely nefariously - and that gets way worse if they're the only ones who get to say anything.
The trick is to only destroy your enemies' institutions. I wonder if Putin's thought this through?
When reading anything by Ilya Somin, it's important to remember that they hate the very idea of not only national borders, but of the nation-state itself. Ilya absolutely has no problem with the entire third world moving to the US because the inevitable destruction of the country would remove the US's hegemony.
Basically they're no better than an anarcho-communist despite ostensibly being on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Easily the worst Reason writer.
Yes. Somin is like a parody of a Libertarian. He takes extreme positions and gives silly justifications. His policies would destroy the USA.
Immigration made the USA.
Perhaps you have a point...
Hundreds of thousands of Amuricans murdered/raped/assaulted by illegal aliens, but it's the Cats and Ducks that really get peoples fired up?
Vot a Coun-Try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank
It's simple. Trump has said it, therefore it's true and the claim must be defended regardless of how stupid, ignorant or dishonest that defence makes you look.
It's not just Trump, and you're the stupid one for not connecting 20,000 peoples, who have an actual holiday in which they eat Cats, with the coincidental missing Cats.
and like I said, even if I didn't like Cats (We have a Cat, a Ferrett, and a Pomeranian, I think the Cat would kick their ass) "It's not the Cat's (Stupid)!"
It's Laken Riley, Lizbeth Medina, Rachel Morin, Luis Talamantes-Romero, Rhyan Michelle Moody, each one has a story, here's
Rhyan's
"Jose Victor Chaparro-Saenz, 38, an illegal alien from Mexico, was arrested and charged with manslaughter, resisting arrest, and aggravated assault in the Thanksgiving Day death of Rhyan Michelle Moody, 14, of Texas.
Chaparro-Saenz is accused of driving drunk, running a red light, and T-boned Moody's grandparents vehicle on November 23, 2017. The teen died that day due to the injuries she sustained from the accident. Her grandparents were also injured.
An Immigration and Customs Enforcement detainer was placed on Chaparro-Saenz, who had been previously voluntarily removed from the US in 1998.
Miss. Moody was a freshman at Colleyville Heritage High School. She had many interests including church, family, friends, gymnastics, cheerleading and singing. She is survived by her mother, father, step-father, brothers, sisters, and many other relatives and friends."
That's why "45" will be "47"
not accepting another rigged D-bate (which aren't even really Debates, but that's another Ish-yew) is a smart move, stupid move was to accept one in the first place.
Frank
not connecting 20,000 peoples, who have an actual holiday in which they eat Cats, with the coincidental missing Cats.
What missing cats? The ones some idiot, who doesn't even live in Springfield, imagined were missing, based on nothing?
This whole thing is nothing but a hatefest. SInce the Rev isn't around to say it, I will:
These are your people, Republicans, Josh, Eugene, whoever.
This thread makes me profoundly sad.
Although even I could not have predicted someone (and you know who it was, because of course) seriously saying that Haitians would be better off enslaved, because they are so desperate to justify an outright lie.
This is an old, and I assumed, discredited playbook. "“I never knew that rats and puppies were good to eat until I was told by American people.” -Wong Chin Foo, Chinese Activist, making a joke in the 19th century.
Look, if you actually believe this nonsense, please do better. Just ... try and figure things out.
If you aren't sure, but are furiously googling only to try and find results to argue- again, try finding true things, not just what you want to believe.
Finally, if you know it's not true, but you just enjoy "owning the libs," or whatever- remember, this is no better than anti-Semitism, or demonizing other minority groups. Your LULZ can hurt real people.
Okay, you figure it out. When you do, tell us why Haiti is the way that it is.
Well, Roger, I think I can safely say that my immediate reaction wouldn’t be that they would be better off enslaved.
But I’m not going to tell you, because I know it won’t make a difference. If you actually cared (you don’t) there are lots of ways you could educate yourself. And no, I don’t mean, “google,” I mean doing the work to understand why things developed that way. It’s there, if you want to put in the work.
I’m not saying you have to accept it, but at least you’d have a foundation of knowledge.
But really, anything would be better than demonizing a small community. This type of false rhetoric can cause actual violence. It’s no better than anti-Semites spreading blood libel. Haitian immigrants are hard-working, decent people that are looking for a better life, like all other people. They don’t deserve your evil (and it is evil) and false maliciousness.
While that argument might work for some, Schlafly's perfectly okay with the Jewish blood libel.
Actually the NY Times had a big article about this 2022 (i'm gifting this article for all the shlub lawyers here who cannot afford the Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/world/americas/haiti-history-colonized-france.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KU4.JyO9.Ef9QO9NXa2M9&smid=url-share
TLDR: When the Haitian slaves liberated themselves from the French, the French said 'Okay fine. But if you don't want us to bring our army in and take it back, you pay us 150M Francs'. It was known as 'The Ransom'. It was so staggeringly large that it took Haiti over 130 years to repay it. They never recovered as a nation. Haiti was the only liberated nation in the world to have to pay a ransom for its freedom
So, that was paid in full by 1947. What's their excuse today? Countries that were bombed into the stone age in WWII or more recently are still better off today than Haiti. What's been keeping them down the last 77 years?
Because all those countries had been unburdened enough to have become industrial powerhouses by the time WWII came about. It was easy to rebuild. Plus, you know, the Marshall Plan and stuff. By the time WWII came about, Haiti was finally able to leave the stone age.
Haiti was doing better before 1947. It fell behind in recent decades.
And your theory is that it's because of their diet?
No. There are various nature-nurture explanations. Regardless, the problems of Haiti should not be imported to Columbus Ohio.
There were no countries bombed into the stone age in WWII. The heavily bombed countries were wealthy before they were bombed and were still much richer than Haiti afterwards.
But, yeah, keep telling yourselves they suck because they're Negroes, if that makes you feel better
THE INCREDIBLE TRUMP:
"Mexican rapists come America. Eat all bean. Trump smash!! Mexican Jew not replace we! Smash! Single cat lady eat all cat! Me not crazy. Swear!!!'
It'll serve you right when a Mexican cuts your throat some day.
Ilya seems to forget about the harm visited on the community and some woman booted out of her home because squatters made it unsafe.
Don't you have a firearm to go lick clean? Please?
Here's real harm from the bullshit you people defend:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4878462-springfield-bomb-threat-schools-closed-eating-pets-trump-vance/
3 more dead cats in Houston.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2024/09/13/its-disgusting-three-cats-found-mutilated-cut-in-half-in-houstons-east-end/
And suddenly conservatives are all donating to PETA.
Paraphrasing Edward I from "Braveheart"
"The trouble with Haiti is it's full of Haitians"
Frank
I have been to China and seen packaged dog meat in the frozen food section of a grocery store. (My friend said , " The small ones taste the best.")
I have also seen videos of street vendors (don't remember which country) boiling cats alive for food.
Cultures differ, borders are useful.
I am going to try and make this very simple.
Saying other people, somewhere, might do something is no excuse for propagating and spreading false lies about particular people, here, doing it.
"I saw Chinese people do this one thing, maybe. And I also saw a youtube video, of someone, somewhere. So, that means it is totally cool to attack a specific group of people with lies."
What the actual hell is wrong with people?
"Jeffrey Dahmer was an America, and he ate people, so, um, Americans are cannibals."
It is still a bad idea to import cannibals into Ohio.
I agree, more cannibals would be bad. But Ohio should be overjoyed to get as many Haitians as they can, to dilute the American cannibal population as much as possible.
C'mon Man! gotta be some Haitian's on up in this Bee-otch, you guys eat Cats or not?
Because I always heard Black Guys didn't like to eat Pussy!!!!
Hay-Ohh!! man, I almost went all the way to Haiti to get that joke
Frank
So this is what we've come to in this country. We're debating whether or not there's evidence of illegal immigrants eating pets in a specific town in Ohio. On one side, there are those claiming there's no evidence of people eating pets; on the other, there are those claiming that people are eating pets. There are "fact checks" about people eating pets and/or the absence of people eating pets. Any single anecdote posted on X (formerly known as Twitter) from someone claiming that they know someone who knows someone who claims their pet was eaten by someone now reaches the highest levels of political debate in the U.S. Now there are internet sleuths scouring the depths of the internet for any verifiable claims of people eating pets. We've reached a level of farce so potent that any discussion of the actual, underlying issues gets drowned out in the argument about whether people eat pets.
Until Ilya interviews all of the cats in Springfield, OH, we will never find solace or respite.
They aren't illegal immigrants.
Politics has become this country's #1 Sports & Entertainment product, much to the detriment of our politics.
re Jason's reply ...I am not suggesting that illegal or legal immigrants or anyone is eating pets--only that Trump claimed (if I remember correctly) that illegal immigrants were eating pets in Springfield, OH.
Thanks for clarifying.
Congratulations Trumptards, this is the lie you're willingly spreading.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/trump-neo-nazis-pushed-false-claims-haitians-part-hate-campaign-rcna170796
You're all racists.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
-Sartre, of course.
That's the whole point here. Of course most of them know they are acting in bad faith on this issue, but they don't care.
That actual people are being maligned by this, and that some will take this as true and ... god forbid ... act on it ... is of no consequence.
This is pure ugliness. The worst of people exposed.
I've always appreciated your presence here, Loki.
Unfortunately, as I linked to above and you noted below, real harm is already happening:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4878462-springfield-bomb-threat-schools-closed-eating-pets-trump-vance/
And you're right: the commenters spreading the lies here and elsewhere just don't care. They are completely and utterly subservient to whatever lie Trump wants them to tell.
And I just saw it. Trump, of course, is doubling down on being wrong, continuing to spread this hateful and vile lie. And saying that he will deport them. And he's adding yet another lie (about Aurora, but whatever).
Meanwhile, even though the City Manager, City Mayor, Chief of Police, and Governor of Ohio (R) have said that this is untrue and a lie, the continued assertion has the expected consequences, with violent threats and bomb called in and shutting schools, City Hall, and other buildings.
This is not politics; this is something else. There is never a reason for someone to be spreading vile rumors that are known to be untrue in order to incite people against a small part of the population. We've seen this before, and it's never pretty.
Biden-Harris sent 20,000 Haitians to Springfield Ohio, a town of 60,000. Are you defending that? Do you think the people of Columbus should have to put up with that? Eating dogs and cats is just one of many problems.
“Eating dogs and cats is just one of many problems.”
No, it’s not “one of many problems” because you are lying.
This is just like going around spouting off about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion; you are knowingly spreading lies about a group in order to incite hatred of them, for no reason other than sheer malicious evil.
I am always open to have a real conversation about immigration policy (and I think that there a lot that needs to be addressed and done, and that there are reasonable concerns that need to dealt with). But I won’t have one with people that knowingly and deliberately continue to spread lies designed to hurt others.
At some point, you either look in the mirror, and try to do better, or you’re the problem- not immigration.
I'm going to say this again- this is causing actual harm to real people. This isn't some lalalalala game. It's shameful. They have done nothing to deserve this wrath, other than seek a better life for themselves and their families and become a target of lies concocted for partisan warfare.
Exactly.
Roger S. is scum, as are the others promoting this bullshit. They are directly responsible for the harm coming to the Haitian community in Springfield. Including you, Brett.
The modern equivalent of the KKK.
If you wanted a real conversation, you would answer the question. Do you favor sending all those Haitians to Ohio, or not? Yes, there is real harm to the people of Ohio from these policies. No, you just want to engage in name-calling, and inflicting misery on people in Ohio.
Nobody on here wants a real conversation with you, because you're a ridiculous level of bigot who starts from points that are axiomatically beyond the pale of conversation.
Also you lie.
More of the usual ad hominem attacks.
That's not ad hominem. You're an educated person, learn to use terms right.
The point is that to converse with you, someone would have to be interested in engaging with your weird race science and general bitterness.
People don't want to do that. For the same reason people don't want to engage with the guy who thinks he's solved gravity with his personal theory of shapes.
You are a crank. A crank whose views are particularly unpleasant as relates to a bunch of nonwhite humans, so anyone with humanity is doubly uninterested in engaging with you.
What Sarcastro said, Roger S. And loki before him.
You are an uninteresting bigot.
https://christopherrufo.com/p/the-cat-eaters-of-ohio
Will this post be updated?
The Haitian Migrant Cat Scare reminds me of The Great Cat Massacre.
Interesting. There is a parallel.
The Republicans have gone all in on the pets, giving very little comparative sympathy and concern for the humans they exploit.
This moral rot can only be stopped by cutting it out of the body politic, which is to say defeating Trump resoundingly.
You think defeating Trump will cut this out? It didn't the last time. Or was it just not resounding enough?
Not resounding enough. It can't be decided by less than 100,000 votes either way. No one has incentive to change that way. A 7+% blowout in the popular and the tipping point state by at least a point or preferably three would tell a party that either what they are selling and/or how they are selling it is not a winner.
And this scenario is only realistic if reasonable Republicans abandon Trump en masse. Democrats have no reason to abandon Harris. She isn't a previous loser, she hasn't gone around lying about she actually won when she lost, she doesn't scream out racist lies at the debate about a powerless, disfavored group stealing pets and eating them, she doesn't lie like she breathes, she isn't easily manipulable, and she isn't otherwise entirely lacking in all the aspects of personality, character, and temperament that are required to be a competent, much less a good, leader.
Republicans will be more and more tied to pet stealing lies and the Laura Loomers of the world if they don't take this chance to repudiate that form of politics. And don't kid yourself that the next generation will be better because this is a Trump thing. JD Vance first promoted the pet stealing lie......he got that sort of idea from Trump. It's how Republicans have taught their candidates that they win. Also, election denial like Kari Lake, and numerous smaller fish.
It's a cancer, ya'll neat to cut it out.
Since this is a Somin post:
Maybe we should send them to Kelo's old property in New Salem.
According to the Beverly Hillbillies, my go-to reference on the dietary habits of JD Vance's people, they eat boiled mule, roast possum, and southern-fried muskrat, all smothered in gopher gravy.