The Volokh Conspiracy
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Free Speech and the Educational Mission
Some of the hardest free speech issues arise when a university argues that restrictions are justified by its "educational mission."
Public colleges and universities are bound by the First Amendment. Their private counterparts are not (though a state might choose to apply the requirements of the First Amendment to them, as California has largely done). But if private universities choose to follow the First Amendment, they will make life a lot easier, and also a lot better, for faculty, administrators, and students alike.
One reason is that First Amendment principles make most cases easy.
The First Amendment does not protect plagiarism, sexual harassment, or true threats ("I will hurt you if I see you in the dining room again"). At the same time, the First Amendment protects a wide range of viewpoints, including those that many consider, or that just are, offensive, hurtful, insulting, or humiliating.
If someone on campus says, "Capitalism is racism," or "Israel should never have been created," or "Democrats are communists," or "January 6, 2021 should be a national holiday," or "Russia all the way," or "Affirmative action is the worst form of race discrimination," the First Amendment doesn't allow regulation.
Still, there are plenty of hard cases. Many of the hardest arise when a college or university claims that restrictions are justified by its educational mission.
In some cases, such restrictions really can be so justified. A university can direct a history professor to teach history, not physics, in a history class. That's a form of content discrimination, and it's okay.
A university can deny tenure to a law professor whose published work consists entirely of science fiction. That's also a form of content discrimination, and it's also okay. A university can tell students that they have to write papers and exams on assigned topics, not on whatever interests them.
We can go a lot further. A college or university can require students and faculty to treat each other with respect. If a student repeatedly tells other students, in class, that they are fools or idiots, discipline is almost certainly permissible. If professors repeatedly say the f word in class, in response to student comments that they find confused or unhelpful, they can almost certainly be disciplined.
A government cannot mandate civility, considerateness, or respect. But an institution of higher education can do something like that, at least if it specifies what it has in mind, and at least if it is dealing with extreme cases.
You can even imagine cases in which viewpoint discrimination, which is ordinarily anathema, is acceptable. Again the reason is the educational mission.
Suppose a law school thinks that its faculty is dominated by people with left-of-center views, especially in constitutional law. Can the law school decide that in hiring, it will give a preference to people with right-of-center views?
The answer is almost certainly yes. A law school can decide, without offense to First Amendment principles, that it wants to ensure diversity of viewpoints, for the benefit of faculty and students alike.
But there are harder cases.
Suppose that a physics professor says that "men are just better than women in physics; the subject is much easier for them." Suppose the professor says that in class. A university might think that the professor cannot do his job if he tells his women students that they are likely to struggle with the course.
First Amendment principles do not forbid a college or university to take steps to ensure that professors are able to do their jobs. Perhaps certain kinds of comments, made in class, can be restricted, even if the restriction is a form of viewpoint discrimination. (A professor certainly could not be disciplined for saying that men and women students are equally able to do well in physics.)
That argument is weakened if a professor says something like this outside of the classroom. Professors do not lose their right to express their opinions. But there is not a lot of law on such questions. (I discuss much of what there is in Campus Free Speech.)
We know that governments can restrict the speech of their employees if the restriction is reasonably justified by reference to the government's legitimate interests as employer. If an official in a policymaking role at the State Department says that the United States is horrible in every way, and that China and Russia are both wonderful and blameless, the First Amendment does not forbid suspension or discharge.
So if professors say something that, in the university's reasonable view, makes it hard for them to teach their students, we might have a hard question. But the slippery slope problem here is serious. A host of imaginable views, expressed outside of class, might upset some students or make them feel in some sense excluded or demoralized. Consider these: (1) "Religion is the opiate of the people." (2) "Atheists have no morality." (3) "Liberalism is a disorder." (4) "Hunting should be a crime."
I have been focusing on speech by faculty members, but the question whether the educational mission justifies special restrictions can be asked about administrators and students as well.
Suppose that a dean of admissions makes a sexually explicit video. Or suppose that students form a society for celebration of the Confederacy or in defense of Hitler. In such cases, we can easily imagine a claim, by some or many at the institution, that the relevant speech really does compromise its educational mission.
In my view, colleges and universities do best to begin with a presumption in favor of freedom. But as they say, general propositions do not decide concrete cases. Adoption of First Amendment principles makes most cases easy—but not all of them.
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"Suppose that a dean of admissions makes a sexually explicit video."
Not quite just a hypo:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wisconsin-university-chancellor-fired-ongoing-porn-career-wife-sexy-ha-rcna131460
Yes, I thought of that...
Other than sheer arrogance, WHAT were they thinking?!?
That it's the 21st century and people really shouldn't care that a married couple records their sexual activity or even posts it online.
And yet they do.
Even if as a normative statement the couple thought people shouldn't care, he still would have been wise to have read City of San Diego v. Roe before posting their videos online.
A key issue there involved doing a porn in a police officer uniform.
Apparently, he and the Mrs. claim they're producing "porn."
He also says his First Amendment rights were violated.
What about his and his wife's right to bare arms?
Because you say so?
Have you ever considered this alternative: your values are dog shit, they don't constitute progress at all (but rather reflect a nation in decline), and most the rest of the world---including the parts that are more civilised than your country---resoundingly rejects them?
What's it like knowing that your posturing as a moral and epistemic authority is finished forever since the whole world can see through you now? Do you finally feel like a fraud?
To the extent that first amendment principles apply, these are all easy cases. If the first amendment is applicable to government employee teachers in a classroom, then they do have a right to teach Shakespeare in physics, or say that mem are better than women, etc. First amendment rights are individual rights, and not constrained by the needs of the institution.
What you're trying to do is craft a policy that balances the need of the institution to direct how professors perform their work with the need of the institution to allow professors to optimally develop the ideas that they teach. But this is not a constitutional concern.
And of course, nothing in the first amendment constrains the government from promulgating its own views to students.
The First Amendment doesn't extend to a putative right of a government employee to speak their mind within the scope of their employment. When they're off the clock, sure, but not when a professor is teaching or grading their class.
There should be broad recognition of academic freedom, but it needs to be moderated by common sense, and that common sense should forestall someone trying to teach Shakespeare when the course curriculum says physics.
"The First Amendment doesn’t extend to a putative right of a government employee to speak their mind within the scope of their employment."
I agree, but many have argued, and some courts have found, that University professors have some first amendment rights, even while teaching class.
That’s an interesting view, but I don’t think it is in line with precedent (which often has worked to balance individual professors’ speech rights with institutional needs).
https://www.aaup.org/our-work/protecting-academic-freedom/academic-freedom-and-first-amendment-2007
GARCETTI v. CEBALLOS left open the idea of an academic freedom exception to the government speech doctrine, and some courts have recognized such an exception. But the issue isn't settled.
If the issue gets back to SCOTUS, hopefully they will rule that there is no such exception, because how much freedom of expression professors should have in the classroom isn't an individual rights issue, but an issue of how the public wants its institutions to function.
As I've said before, the idea the individual rights protect government officials acting in their official capacities from constraints imposed by the electorate is Orwellian and dangerous.
And of course, under unqualified First Amendment principles, the students in the history class would be equally entitled to write an essay about their pet dog rather than about history, let alone about the exam question, and could not be penalized for exercising their freedom to choose what to write about.
And the government is free to express itself by giving the student a bad grade.
Maybe, as long as the institution doesn't attach any consequences (like academic dismissal) to bad grades.
Your hard cases could all be analyzed under the existing governement-as-employer doctrine (assuming a private university wanted to subject itself to First Amendment doctrine). Not teaching history in a history class, or being disrespectful in class can be regulated as on-the-job speech. Comments outside of class would be subject to Pickering balancing (which would not always be easy). But, there are academic freedom considerations that might make things even less clear.
I think academic institutions, like marital institutions, are something of a sui generis thing.
What’s fun about this post is that the VC features contributors who inspire so many of these “hard” line-drawing cases! See if you can guess who these are:
A First Amendment professor is a vocal opponent of a law school’s policy strongly encouraging faculty to give “trigger warnings” to students prior to teaching content involving certain sensitive subjects, to the point that he disregards the policy in his own classes. In addition, in his writing, he consistently writes in favor of stronger free-exercise protections when it comes to discriminating against LGBT people; in favor of narrower free-speech protections when it comes to political movements in favor of restricting access to LGBT topics; and in favor of conservative parents seeking to control their LGBT children’s personal development. As such, the administration becomes concerned that his course on the First Amendment may not accurately present the law to his students and present a biased view of matters that are unsettled as a matter of law, particularly when the matter involves LGBT topics. May the administration assign him to other teaching responsibilities?
Another constitutional law professor spends a significant amount of time writing gossip columns and appearing on national media, where he promotes and endorses views considered politically extreme within legal academia. The administration grows concerned that his outside activities are distracting him from a primary focus on teaching law students and developing quality scholarship, and that his extreme views reflect poorly on the law school and may begin to distract his students. May the administration fire him to avoid a scandal or conflict with law students, as the law school seeks to improve its reputation for legal employers?
Another professor has always engaged himself professionally with students and has done legitimate scholarly work in his areas of interest. However, he engages in a lot of high-profile, incredibly inflammatory rhetoric online on a certain volatile topic. While the law school administration has no specific reason to believe this rhetoric is getting in the way of his job, it is concerned that his online activities may harm its ability to recruit quality law students and employers. May it instruct him to dial back his online rhetoric?
Some pretty crafty spin...
That’s all he does. He’s an evil little totalitarian. His complete lack of integrity, honesty, etc, is not bothersome to him at all.
And when he’s called out on his agitprop he can’t defend it credibly either. In part that’s because he’s a mediocrity, but it’s also because he is a coward who can’t face honest self-reflection.
Oh, and when he says ‘extreme’ in terms of ‘legal academia’ he means the United States, which is unrepresentative of more civilised countries’ (with their better educated and trained) academics—including in terms of academics on the real left.
Bravo.
I often wonder if these guys' students ever read their VC posts and the comments they engender.
The solutions to these cases are simple.
1) Require all professors teaching the First Amendment to say that hate speech is not free speech, that the Sedition Acts of 1798, 1917 and 1918 were perfectly constitutional, and in general that censorship is A-OK. Censor those professors who don't parrot this line.
2 & 3) Adopt a rule applicable to all professors that they stick to classroom instruction and not do anything outside the classroom which influential outsiders are embarrassed by. Enforce this rule consistently.
The suggestions for 2 & 3 would of course be applicable across the entire university, not just the law school.
(Suggestion 1 would also apply outside the law school if a non-law-professor undertakes to talk about the 1st Amendment.)
These would certainly be the rules to which lawyers in law firms are subject. I don't know how many people saw the partner at Hogan Lovells fired for saying (in an internal discussion) that she thought Dobbs was rightly decided.
Is #3 Calabresi?
Well if it is, he does have the benefit of accurately identifying the concerns of 9 members of the court in at least Trump v Anderson.
Part 3 of his brief:
“It Would Be Highly Imprudent to
Interpret Section 3 in Any Way that
Empowers Partisan Officials to
Unilaterally Disqualify Political
Opponents from Public Office.”
It might be interesting to consider Calebresi’s brief in context with Baude’s law review article on section 3 of the 14th. Both took firm positions on a constitutional issue that either already was or had a good chance to be a matter of public controversy and come before State courts and the Supreme Court. Both are professors at private universities in Illinois. One argument won the day by a split decision in state court, the others argument was found persuasive by a 9-0 majority at the Supreme Court.
Which one or both should be fired or disciplined?
So, what do we do when there are conflicting views of what constitutes “showing respect” for students or colleagues? Does it need to reflect what would be a societal *consensus* of basic manners, or may it even be a controversial view of what would be “respectful” in a given instance?
A contemporary example, of course, is the hot-button issue of pronouns and related gender debates. The left has (relatively) recently begun proposing drastic and rapid changes to how to define gender, and how to reflect this in our social conventions…and they seem to truly believe that failure to fully and instantly adopt these proposals is tantamount to cruelty towards certain groups.
Relatedly, many such folks also argue that they need *not* be respectful to anyone whose views they find racist/sexist/bigoted/etc. At some point, we probably all have things we’d refuse to be respectful about. But of course, some define their red-lines with staggering breadth…as well as seeming selectivity.
So, “respect” sounds fine in the abstract…but seems like a tricky standard to implement.
The university as employer decides what respectful behavior entails.
Taken at face value, your suggestion would effectively eliminate any first amendment rights of faculty in their employment capacity (which, might well be your position, but isn't the law...).
If the univerisity edicts on what constitutes respectful speech is limited to what is said as part of one's job duties, then I think my statement comports with First Amendment doctrine. What did I get wrong?
It follows, Shirley, that if the state government decides to substitute its own ideas of what constitutes “respectful” speech for the university administration’s, that also gets to be binding.
If the state government is dictating to a public university, yes that’s correct because the state government is the employer. If on the other hand the state government is dictating to a private university, no (and, don’t call me …) because the state government is acting as the sovereign.
Agreed
honestly, at a certain point that's going to become a jury question. If you can't find 12 honest and random jurors who will all say that the professor crossed a line, then he didn't cross a line.
An employer's decision on what constitutes respectful on-the-job speech should not be subject to a jury decision.
Well, actually it depends on what the wording is in the official faculty handbook, and what state and federal law is.
For instance this case:
http://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/professor-wouldnt-use-trans-students-pronouns-wins-400k-settlement-rcna24989
"In response, Meriwether, who is an evangelical Christian, filed a federal lawsuit against the university that year, contending that officials violated his constitutional rights by compelling him to speak in a way that contradicts his religious beliefs."
Was that case about respectful speech? The university said it was about equal accommodation/protection while the plaintiff said he was respectful but forced to endorse an ideology contrary to his religion. Don’t see whether the speech was disrespectful as the issue in that article or the one on the initial lawsuit it links to.
I think the 6th Circuit was wrong to conclude that a refusal to use a student's preferred pronoun to address a specific student is protected by academic freedom.
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, although I will note it was based on the professors religious objections not academic freedom.
But your opinion is not controlling law in the 6th circuit.
I think using standard English in adressing students should always be protected.
The decision was based on both academic freedom and Free Exercise with the latter being accepted because of the university’s hostility towards religion.
A defense of using “standard English” in refusing to refer to a specific person by their preferred pronoun on the job does not work for government employees outside the university context.
depends on how many different laws get involved, honestly. When you start mixing in a public employer, first amendment laws, civil rights laws, labor laws, safety laws, trademark laws, parental-rights laws...
at a certain point.... yeah, jury decision. File a lawsuit and find out.
I don't think these line drawing exercises are particularly convincing.
A more satisfactory solution is to cut through the Gordian knot and remove the problem of how to dice up the 1st Amendment in government colleges. By not having any.
Aren’t you just begging the question of what restrictions “dice up the 1st Amendment?”
I refer to the particular dicings that Prof Sunstein finds it necessary to make, to exempt institutions of higher education from regular 1A principles (eg subject matter, respect. don't say things that (we think) mean you can't do your job etc) - ie the explicit subject of his post : Free Speech and the Educational Mission.
By which he means - when should ordinary 1A principles apply, and when do they become sufficiently "difficult" that we should discard them ? Or dice them.
The obvious solution to "OMG these bits of the constitution don't work when we come to consider their application in government owned grocery stores !" is .... lose the government owned grocery stores.
Sunstein assumes that the private university has voluntarily chosen to comply with the First Amendment as if it is a public university. As such, your suggestion is not a solution.
Private universities are welcome to adopt whatever rules they want. If those rules make it impossible to carry out their mission they can change them.
You are still not adressing Sunstein's argument that private univerisites should follow the First Amendment.
I don’t think it’s much of an argument. Private grocery stores don’t choose to pretend they’re governed by the 1st Amendment, and there’s no reason for private universities to do so either.
There are of course hundreds, maybe thousands, of private universities around the world which have not adopted the 1st Amendment and are doing just fine.
It is only by carving chunks out of the 1st Amendment - particularly the bits that deal with content neutrality - that Sunstein can come up with a “First Amendment” that he thinks would be workable. The actual First Amendment wouldn’t work at all, since content neutrality couldn’t possibly fly in a university.
Basically his argument is that “we’re special.”
Nah
The argument is universities are special because of academic freedom which is intertwined with speech, and therefore should hold themselves to a First Amendment standard.
He didn't carve out anything that hasn't already been established by government-as-employer doctrine. The actual First Amendment applies at public universities. Are you claiming that application "doesn't work at all"?
He carved professorial speech on whether women can hack physics differently according to whether the prof said they could (1A right not to be disciplined) or could not (no such 1A right.)
You think that applies to disciplinary procedures across all government employment ?
No - his argument is that universities are special. As is yours - why else does academic freedom turn up in your argument ?
A straight government employee on the job speech is government speech principle would can “academic freedom” (in public schools.)
“his argument is that universities are special”
That’s also the courts’ take, so maybe he’s working within that framework.
You said Sunstein carved out chunks of the First Amendment which struck me as a claim he was arguing for lesser protection of speech. To the contrary, Sunstein added First Amendment protections because of academic freedom.
We were also treated to :
A college or university can require students and faculty to treat each other with respect. If a student repeatedly tells other students, in class, that they are fools or idiots, discipline is almost certainly permissible. If professors repeatedly say the f word in class, in response to student comments that they find confused or unhelpful, they can almost certainly be disciplined.
That's a carve out.
(Also entirely arbitrary - for as you say elsewhere, the university (aka the government) defines respect as it pleases. )
Do you think governments can’t, consistent with first amendment precedent, restrict employee speech that based on respect? Cops that curse and insult their partners and colleagues can’t be disciplined? Garbage men that scream at each other while picking up the trash can’t be disciplined?
Requiring respecrful on-the-job speech is not a carve out beyond government-as-employer doctrine.
Not in California, which has passed a law that private universties must respect the first amendment rights of their students an faculty.
That sounds like a first amendment violation, honestly.
I don't agree and know of no such court challenges.
California law requires private university to treat third-party speech under the same standard as public universities must under the First Amendment. That in no way imposes on, restricts or compels the university's speech.
Have you mentioned this to Facebook and Google ?
Facebook and Google can argue they are, for First Amendment purposes, like newspapers or bookstores that publish or distribute respectively third-party speech. Universities aren't publishing or distrbuting either faculty or student speech.
It violates the private schools' right of expressive association.
Expressive assoication is implicated by who the university chooses be a faculty or a student (*), not by what they say.
(*) Anti-discrimination law generally does not infringe on expressive assoication rights (see the Boy Scout case for when it does).
Yep. Private Universities are well within their rights to require flat-out loyalty oaths every morning as a test of who they want to accept as a student, but that would be a massive first amendment violation if a public school did it.
Not in California per statute. And, the ban is permitted by the First Amendment.
"Not in California per statute. And, the ban is permitted by the First Amendment."
Says who? Litigation on the topic has been minimal.
As I pointed out supra at least many of these examples are certainly not clear “exemptions” to the First Amendment under our judicial precedent. At least no more than things like defamation, obscenity, government employee speech, etc.
If your point is that the judiciary has a tendency to create exceptions to constitutional rights according to what they feel might inconvenience the government , I’m afraid you are not going to get an argument from me.
Are you a First Amendment absolutist? Can treasonous defamatory, or threatening speech not be restricted (none of those exceptions are mentioned in the First Amendment)? Does the First Amendment mean that no restriction can be made on students insulting their professors or classmates in class or university staff insulting their colleagues? I don’t think these things are simple.
Weird. I feel like someone has struggled with this before. The whole, "What do you do if you're an absolutist?"
Maybe Hugo Black's mom knows?
>January 6, 2021 should be a national holiday
I think both the left and hardcore trump fans agree Jan 6th should be a national holiday.
Perhaps half think it should be a national day of mourning. Not sayin’ which half…
The day the music died?
The day that "Equal Justice Under Law" ceased to exist.
We've now become pre-Revolutionary France where "justice" depends on your estate, and that didn't turn out well.
January 6 is the traditional date of Epiphany. But we can always get rid of that observance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(holiday)
January 6 should become a strictly secular holiday. Fireworks and the burning of Trump effigies. Two-minute Hate against Trumpstein.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
Indeed, there’s precedent for holding a memorial for an insurrection.
July 4?
Jan 6 wasn't an insurrection.
Guy Fawkes wanted an authoritarian takeover of the state by bombing Westminster. Jan 6 Americans, by contrast were not only unarmed and but were rioting over your dubious---by any civilised Western country's election law standards---election. Guy Fawkes also wasn't waived in to the legislature building by police officers.
“(A professor certainly could not be disciplined for saying that men and women students are equally able to do well in physics.)”
Actually, I’m not certain that’s true. If you could PROVE that the professor KNEW he was lying, that might very well be a disciplinable offense.
For example, let’s say that a given professor teaches 100 distinct students a year, in various physics classes. between 75-79 out of 80 males always get passing grades, and between 1-4 out of 20 females always get passing grades. It’s been that way for the professor’s entire 30-year career
This obviously raised some questions of sex discrimination in terms of the professor’s grading, and he was investigated multiple times, and every time he was cleared…. he really was teaching fairly, and grading fairly, and those really were the correct grades for him to give in each case.
Now, on the one hand, that’s almost certainly not CAUSED by the student’s sex, as such… it’s PROBABLY some sort of cluster-effect of selection biases, like maybe the university has a recruiter who keeps waiving math requirements solely for female physics students to get his numbers up or something. Or maybe this particular college draws from a lot of strange religious high schools which believe girls shouldn’t be taught science. or maybe something else, or a combination. Could be any plausible not-technically-sex-based explanation. freak occurrences do happen.
If the professor ALWAYS says at the beginning of the year that “( men and women students are equally able to do well in physics.)”, and NEVER says that “but in the past, I am been forced to fail a vastly disproportionate number of women students, and I don’t know why…”
From a certain point of view, he’s either lying to students, or withholding vitally important information from students, or being academically dishonest and cowardly about what he permits himself to know about students… and that really WOULD be a disciplinable offense.
Or else chicks can't do physics?
"In my view, colleges and universities do best to begin with a presumption in favor of freedom"
I feel like Pilate. What is "freedom"?
"A university can deny tenure to a law professor whose published work consists entirely of science fiction."
What if he writes about a world where men can get pregnant and marriage has no recognized relationship to the perpetuation of the species?
Even though your comment was intended only to troll, it brings up an interesting point.
Sunstein uncontroversially claims that tenure can be denied for publications that are off-topic to the professor's field because the government as employer can set relevant requirements for promotion even if they implicate speech.
It might appear the same applies to not giving tenure to a sociology professor who publishes works saying men can get pregnant when the university thinks otherwise. After all, judging the merits of the published work is a relevant requirement. But then we have the wrinkle of academic freedom and it isn't clear whether the university should prevail.
See, I could argue that a university could go either way….
A university should be free to write it’s own mission goals in such a way that science-fiction law-review articles may or may not fall within the university’s basic mission. likewise, niche aspects of obscure foreign laws may or may not fall within it’s mission. Dead-letter studies of no-longer-relevant ancient history laws may or may not fall within it’s mission. Heck, even advocating for major fundamental re-writes of bedrock current law may not fall within it’s mission. Such as, say, explicitly calling for the repeal of the first amendment.
However, the university would be required to define what it’s mission is, or isn’t, VERY clearly, and to actually stick to that definition, and to have a logical reason for choosing that definition.
Edit:
To be clear, mentioning, in passing, that you happen to have a personal stance on those things would still be fine, the university would just be taking the position that they’re not paying you to spend hundreds of hours researching and writing law review articles on those topics.
Can any clearly stated mission permit denying tenure to a law professor whose publications call for hate speech not to be protected by the First Amendment? Or, is that protected by the academic freedom component of the First Amendment?
In theory, I’m inclined to say that ANY form of express and outright advocacy could HYPOTHETICALLY constitute a breach of some plausible mission statement.
I had this argument once in terms of a Notre Dame professor who picked a fight over her school’s catholic abortion policy.
My stance was that as a professor, she is absolutely free to share information which is relevant and within her expertise…. but the school can still require her to support the pope.
She can say “I respect the pope and will comply with his directives on abortion, but…..
….I think he may not have been aware of certain research having to do with the toll this takes young, trafficked, prostitutes…
…I believe my students still need to know what the various blue-state laws on this subjects are.
…I have evidence to show that the consequences the pope HOPES will emerge from his policy are not the consequences which have historically emerged from similiar policies.
…I feel obligated to point out that other college campuses with similar policies have a pretty high rate of proven student disobedience to the policy, and generally speaking, they get away with it.
The professor can TEACH any true and defensible statement which might… throw shade on…. the pope, or the college’s, policy as written….
But the one thing the professor SHOULDN’T do, not if she wants to still have tenure afterwards, is to actually SAY “And I personally will be openly defying and violating this policy in every possible way”
Saying “I comply under protest, and expressly call for this policy to be rescinded” is also… really questionable, and could go either way, depending on how the policy is written, and why.
Although I suppose employment and union law might work differently, if we were talking in terms of pay, benefits, and safety practices….
It is not settled law whether universities can dictate a policy targeted at speech when that policy infringes on academic freedom.
Which raises the very important question "what is academic freedom?"
I'm not convinced that advocacy IS academic freedom.
Does EV advocate for a broad interpretation of the first amendment, relate how his research has found this interpretation to be the best or both? Do you think Stanford should decide and, if they think the former, discipline him/restrict it?
I don't understand the question?
Are you familiar with EVs work here? He finds a rather broad interpretation of the Amendment. Or does he advocate one? Should his academic employer be decided if it’s the latter, and if so, should or could they discipline/restrict him?
Josh -- Boston College got rid of Mary Daly.
Yes, I remember how humanity died out during the long periods of pre-history without marriage!
It did, except for those few on the ark.
I for one look forward to the discovery of Cro-Magnon wedding services and laws.
It inherently existed -- pregnant & nursing mothers don't hunt so well, nor are they really interested in sex. Yet someone fed and protected them, who do you think it was?
It might have included kidnapping her from a rival tribe (or White settlement), but the Native Americans, a stone age people, had a concept of marriage. According to Alex Haley, Africans did too.
It may have been more of "she is my property" than the equality of today, but the concept existed long before the days of engagement photos in the NYT.
I thought they weren’t trying to abolish marriage?
They’ll find a way to propagate humanity without marriage. I’m sure it will be just as good. Probably they'll use Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World as a template for how to do it.
You equated writing “marriage has no recognized relationship to the perpetuation of the species” with writing science fiction, but the species has survived quite long periods without marriage. Someone’s writing some very non-empirical stuff…
No, the *officially recognized relationship* is what’s getting abolished, like I suggested. They’ll go to Huxley for alternate ways by which the species can be fruitful. Thank you for the opportunity for me to reiterate this point.
At least you didn’t emit the standard indignant denial about marriage as we used to know it being abolished. You went straight to humanity perpetuating itself *without* marriage. It’s actually the same point I’m making, though you’re less judgmental about the brave new world we’re entering.
No, you exactly equated a professor who writes about a world where “marriage has no recognized relationship to the perpetuation of the species” with one who writes science fiction. Through much (most?) of human history there was no marriage (unless you think there were Cro-Magnon marriages) and the perpetuation of humanity continued for a long time indeed.
Not fiction at all, history.
Make Huxley Fiction Again!
(And I have the impression we're being unfair to the poor Cro Magnons. Wikipedia doesn't tell us if they had marriage or not, though it says the old theories about them being a matriarchal society were academically defective. Though on the other hand, apparently researchers didn't discover any Cro Magnon wedding cakes,)
You’re talking about an imagined future? I’m talking about the past, where there was no relationship between official marriage and human perpetuation for a long, long time.
Science fiction is often about an “imagined future.” Sometimes the sci-future has aspects of the past, like the cannibalism in Wells’ Time Machine.
And whence comes your expertise about the cro-magnons?
One doesn’t have to look to science fiction or any imagined future to find humanity perpetuating without marriage, just look at our actual past.
You don’t have to look to science fiction to find cannibalism, but Wells had cannibalism in his science fiction, anyway. Why did he put cannibalism in humanity’s future when he could simply have focused on the past?
And I said that humanity could perpetuate without marriage, in fact that’s part of my point.
Oh, so you were saying your hypothetical professor writing about men getting pregnant and official marriage not being related to the perpetuation of humanity is akin to writing science fiction in that many science fiction writers wrote about empirical, historical things in their works of fiction. I see
I'm beginning to "see" that your lack of comprehension won't be cured any time soon.
Please tell how you confirmed that most of human history did not have marriage. Tell why you think there were no "Cro-Magnon" marriages, why they just happened to occur after history was being recorded.
“Please tell how you confirmed that most of human history did not have marriage.”
Because there’s no evidence such a thing existed during that time.
That's not evidence that it didn't exist. Try again.
Yes, he's wrong. He should have written 'advanced civilisation' instead.
Although the species' surviving as hunter gatherers and even into the neolithic period is something to celebrate, its methods and norms ought not to be emulated.
If you include harems and other things we may find repulsive today, name one society in recorded history that did not have some concept of a formal father/mother/child relationship.
It may have been ownership, rape was once considered theft of a man's property, but the concept exist.
And reality is that a pregnant or nursing woman was pretty much helpless, even 100 years ago, and someone else had to feed & protect her, keep her warm, etc. Otherwise she and the child would have died and we wouldn't be here now.
"They’ll find a way to propagate humanity without marriage. I’m sure it will be just as good. Probably they’ll use Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World as a template for how to do it."
Marriage is not, and has never been, a sine qua non for propagation of the human species (nor any other species, for that matter). When a virile male copulates with a fertile female, the two may be married or unmarried, and one or both may be married to a spouse other than the sexual partner.
Gametes simply don't ask about the marital status of their progenitors.
Aren't you the smart one? How could you miss my point so completely?
"When a virile male copulates with a fertile female, the two may be married or unmarried, and one or both may be married to a spouse other than the sexual partner."
Yes, but what happens next is that the woman is largely incapacitated for about 12-18 months and then has a child that she needs assistance in providing for. In the days before DNA testing, society created increasingly formalized the relationship between virile male and fertile female so as to address this.
Remember that we are not talking pregnancy today in 2024 with our central heating, refrigerators, microwaves, cars with automatic transmissions, power steering and power brakes, cell phones and on-line shopping.
Even a century ago, obtaining water involved flipping a 12 quart metal bucket in a well and pulling it up 20 feet by rope, the cookstove burned either wood or coal (depending on the season) and only worked when you built a fire in it (hence the instant popularity of "cooking with gas" when "bottled (LP) gas" arrived in the 1950s), and when light was provided by kerosene lamps.
Society changed when electricity arrived, but in the 1920s, the majority of Americans didn't even have electricity...
Back then, it was the child of a married woman was the responsibility of the husband, her father if unmarried, and the eldest son was legally responsible for providing for his aged parents.
Look up Mosuo walking marriage.
Also if you'd ever have talked to a woman, you would know that childbearing does not mean incapacitation for 12-18 months.
Please do tell how you confirmed the non-existence of marriage in pre-history.
You don’t prove the non-existence of something in science, you recognize there’s no evidence for it (and that further any evidence would contradict known evidence we do have; feel free how marriage would have worked before language).
You stated affirmatively it didn't exist. Without evidence, you shouldn't assume non-existence either.
Language existed a long time before history. Given communications among animals, I'd say that language has existed as long as (or nearly as long as) hominids have.
“Without evidence, you shouldn’t assume non-existence either.”
Do you use that logic with fairies, unicorns, sprites and such?
Communications between animals does not equal language, which would also need to be pretty developed to have “official” marriage going on.
Still waiting for you to back up your statements:
"Through much (most?) of human history there was no marriage"
"the long periods of pre-history without marriage"
I don't see how anyone can discuss this without defining what they mean by marriage. Monogamous pair-bonding? A formal, recognized relationship? Genetic parents raising their own children? Something else.
We know it existed in Stone Age cultures because the Native Americans had it. How much further back can we go?
"Yes, I remember how humanity died out during the long periods of pre-history without marriage!"
How ethnocentric of you! Dragging a woman to your cave by her hair is a perfectly valid marriage in some cultures.
Thanks for this post.
Agreed. I am really enjoying his guest posts. Refreshing!
"There is Freedom of Speech, but I can not guarantee freedom after speech"
- Idi Amin
also attributed to Kier Starmer.
Idi Amin said a mouthful!
Aptly put. Either we have free speech, or we don't. Sunstein says nope, there are a privileged few who have special free speech uber-protections that we plebes do not. To me, the problem really is who decides who gets special free speech uber-protections that others do not.
And when we are talking about free speech, it isn't really speech we are talking about; it is free thought we are talking about.
If I have to make an error on which is worse; allowing all speech, or censoring it...I'd rather allow all speech. You can combat speech with other speech.
Cass Sunstein examples a generation of 1A fundamentalist thinkers whom time, technology, and societal practice have all passed by. Eugene Volokh is another.
As it happens, applicability of prior free speech law and principles have not been much affected. But the law and principles affecting press freedom have been revolutionized.
The Sunstein/EV faction of fundamentalist 1A thinkers have not kept up. Their allegiance to noble causes now decades out of date distracts them from insight that laws specifically tailored to those former realities are powerless to engage a present reality quite unlike the one they remember and revere.
For instance, essentially all of the law of press freedom from that prior era relied implicitly on a near universal practice of private prior editing for everything that got published. That practice is now out the window, with giant implications for press freedom, and for the public life of the nation. These old timers seem not to notice the change. Or, perhaps more accurately, they do notice, but seek with their advocacy to force today’s press freedom related laws and practices back into the mold of a former era incommensurate with today’s challenges.
It is either time to re-tailor the former laws, or consciously to re-insist on them. The latter course would demand rejecting as unwelcome blunders some of the more-recent laws, legal decisions, and policies which delivered a present-day reality with which the older laws governing press freedom cannot cope.
“all of the law of press freedom from that prior era relied implicitly on a near universal practice of private prior editing for everything that got published”
Many of the great cases upholding free expression in that “obsolete” era were about statements which did not exactly go through a rigorous editing process, such as communist and Jehovah’s Witness propaganda, among many examples. Jay Near’s *Saturday Press* in Minneapolis was the subject of the pioneering decision in *Near v. Minnesota,* and I don’t think Near used a rigorous editing process. Nor did Terminiello when he gave his racist speech. And the list goes on.
Margrave — "Rigor," was a word I neither used nor implied. Nor would I advocate for rigor. To do that would raise unmanageable issues concerning whose interpretations of rigor should be privileged to govern the practice of private editing. Any approach in that direction would prove unwise.
Instead, to try cases of defamation before state civil juries turned out to be an adequate substitute for any pre-imposed standard of editing rigor. That practice circumvented any need to rely on alleged privilege or expertise.
Thus, nothing about publishing history suggests a uniform standard of rigor is required, nor any standard except a uniform requirement for private editing prior to publication. With that in place previously, competitive ambition shared alike among many thousands of competitors encouraged development of suitable standards by consensus, by practice, and by experience. That process in fact delivered far better results than today's no-editing and screw-the-libel-laws approach has done.
Well, it went beyond not having rigor. The press freedom cases did not show a "near universal practice of private prior editing" in any useful sense.
Communist and Jehovah's Witness pamphlets. Jay Near's scandal sheet. Underground student papers from the 1960s. The Supreme Court dealt with all of these and often defended their press freedom, though I can't see how they met your paradigm of private prior editing.
What does freedom of the press have to do with free speech?
"...or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;"
Obviously they are related, but most free speech isn't edited.
The Nazi march at Skokie didn't have an editor.
Kazinski, nor was I talking about, "most free speech." If you reread my comment, you will see it explicitly separated free speech from published content. I have for years objected, time and again, to conflating those unlike categories. To say they are related is usually less useful than to contrast them.
‘ fundamentalist thinkers’
Deligitimisation strategy, used by an authoritarian to paint himself as ‘moderate’. The ruse won’t work anymore, Lathrop.
And if you don’t think the masses in more civilised countries are now deeply regretting their legislatures’ and courts’ erosion of their freedoms of speech and association, on both the left and right, then you simply know nothing outside your parochial American bubble. (Just look at what people are saying in both 'Schland and France even just this week, as examples. The costs are real.)
The irony of Lathrop’s misframing of rival normative standpoints as being ‘out of date’ in order to deligitimize them is, of course, the abundant EMPIRICAL evidence that younger people reject HIS values, in going to left and right of him.
Not that Lathrop gives a shit about the truth, or human freedom…
What’s it like knowing that people can easily see through your ruses now AND KNOW that you’re both evil and a threat to their constitutional freedoms and system of government, Lathrop? What’s it like knowing that people can see you’re a bad person?
Calling something a delegitimization strategy is itself a delegitimization strategy, ironically. As is everything else you write.¹ But really, the entire label is a stupid attempt to sound pretentious. All advocates try to persuade that they are right and the other side is wrong. That's the very point of advocacy.
¹This was almost amusing, though:
"Calling things out of date is a bad delegitimization strategy… which proves that he's out of date."
You don't understand the masses. You don't speak for the masses. And there are no more civilized countries than the United States.
Shorter Lathrop (like it's possible to be anything other): "I always thought that the 1A granted special rights to me as a newspaper publisher, and I am very bitter now that more knowledgeable people have explained to me that I misunderstood its purpose and effect."
Many times, not infrequently in reply to Nieporent, I have explicitly rejected any notion of a special class of people with special expressive rights. I am forced to conclude Nieporent repeats that canard because the points I do make baffle his limited insight.
Try instead to answer the points I raise, Nieporent. It would be a better look for you, and might offer the advantage to guide you toward systematic thinking about a subject you have yet to consider critically.
Granted that David lacks the intellectual capacity to respond to you (or most others) cogently or adequately, who do you think you're deluding in suggesting that your sophomoric spin reflects 'systematic thinking', let alone sophisticated instances thereof?
This, leaving aside the fact that you're a liar and spin artist.
"The Nazi march at Skokie didn’t have an editor."
You don't understand fascism -- if those were real Nazis, I assure you it did. Conversely take someone like Elijah Lovejoy who was his own editor & publisher -- that was common back then.
Ed knows his Nazis
Perhaps we need to examine DEI for Free Speech.
Why do I get the feeling that while a university will have have no issue waiving the "free speech" shield when protestors yeel and scream demanding the end of Israel, they would not in a million years permit a bunch of very polite marchers with signs stating that Blacks are inferior?