The Volokh Conspiracy
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Biskupic's Second Installment on Trump Immunity
We learn very little new: Roberts made no efforts to appeal to the left, as he sought to reclaim his Court.
It looks like Joan Biskupic will have a multi-part series. Maybe five parts, like in the bad 'ol days when the Supreme Court had more leaks than the Titanic. Part I was on Moyle. Part II turns to Trump immunity.
Frankly, there is not much insight here. Almost everything she wrote could have been deduced from simply reading the opinions. Again, I wonder how much of what Joan comes from sources with actual inside info, versus people who have informed speculation. Let's break things down chronologically.
First, a note on sourcing. Biskupic expressly states that Roberts "declined to comment."
Roberts declined to respond to CNN's questions about the recent term and this case.
I don't remember seeing a similar denial in past Biskupic pieces. I think Roberts wanted to make painfully clear that he was not a source for Biskupic. I understand this was an issue with Biskupic's book on Roberts, where certain things were said on background that were attributed to the Chief Justice. There are no doubts here.
Second, we learn there was broad consensus to reject Jack Smith's petition for certiorari before judgment:
The immunity case first arrived at the justices' door in December. Seeking to move the prosecution along, Smith had tried to persuade the court to take early review of the case, before US appellate court action. After the US appellate court ruled, Smith urged them to let the decision – which had spurned the Trump claim of immunity – stand.
Both efforts by the special counsel were in vain. Sources told CNN that there was broad understanding among the justices that they would need to decide the matter themselves, and only after the usual appellate court hearing.
No one dissented from the Court's order. That suggests there was consensus. But if sources confirm it, then it must be true! With the benefit of hindsight, would the Justices have had such a consensus if they knew how long the D.C. Circuit panel decision would take? I doubt it.
Relatedly, Smith has not yet moved to expedited his Eleventh Circuit appeal--something Seth Barrett Tillman wrote should not be granted. Smith may simply be willing to let this case litigate in the normal process, and hope no broad precedent is set on the special counsel regulations.
Third, after oral argument, the Chief Justice assigned the opinion to himself, and made no efforts to forge any compromise with the Court's left wing:
Sources familiar with the negotiations told CNN there was an immediate and clear 6-3 split, as the justices met in private in the oak-paneled conference room that adjoins the chief justice's chambers.
Roberts made no serious effort to entice the three liberal justices for even a modicum of the cross-ideological agreement that distinguished such presidential-powers cases in the past. He believed he could persuade people to look beyond Trump. . . .
Roberts may also have sensed that the liberals were simply not going to accept any version of his sweeping presidential immunity.
This case was not about this President, or any other President. It was about the presidency.
Sources familiar with the internal debate told CNN that Roberts believed that he could assert the large and lasting significance of the case and steer attention away from Trump. As he ended up writing in his opinion, "unlike the political branches and the public at large, we cannot afford to fixate exclusively, or even primarily, on present exigencies."
Rather, Roberts would only negotiate an agreement with the Court's conservative members:
In their private session on the case the next day, however, the votes on the core issue lacked any ambiguity and Roberts was ready to write with bold strokes that a former president is entitled to presumptive, if not absolute, immunity for all official acts. Further, Roberts' construction of official acts, as opposed to private ones, was extensive.
The sharp divide between liberals and conservatives meant that virtually all of Roberts' negotiating would be among his people on the right.
Roberts was content to have a 6-3 majority, or if needed a 5-4 majority, with Justice Barrett peeling off.
That brings us to Justice Barrett
Third, for the second consecutive piece, Barrett comes off looking like a glowing, consensus-making moderate.
Barrett was the lone justice on the right-wing who tried to close the gap with dissenting justices.
It isn't clear that Biskupic has any inside information about what Barrett did. Everything written here is entirely deducible from the published decision. Like this part. Is this Biskupic's speculation or inside info?
Barrett, in general, may have been trying to situate herself in the middle. On several occasions throughout the annual session Barrett separated herself from her conservative brethren. Notably, she fully broke from them in the Fischer case, when the Roberts majority narrowed the reach of a federal obstruction statute that had been used against scores of January 6 defendants.
I would have liked to see some discussion about whether the liberals even considered joining Barrett's concurrence, to perhaps flip the majority. But we learn nothing.
Fourth, Biskupic writes that Roberts abandoned his traditional institutionalism this term.
The chief justice, now 69 and about to begin his 20th term, appears to have abandoned his usual institutional concerns. . . .
All told, Roberts appears to have reached a turning point. His vision for the high court became more aggressive, and he has perhaps shed the aura of ineffectualness that permeated some public commentary in recent years.
He kept the most important cases for himself, including one that reversed a 1984 precedent giving federal regulators considerable power over health care, food and drug safety, the environment and consumer affairs. (As chief, Roberts makes most opinion-writing assignments; he regularly keeps important cases, but in the past has shared more and evened out assignments among the eight associate justices.)
And it seems the conservative Justices are more agreeable with Roberts--unsurprising because he is agreeable with them.
At the same time, his dealings with his conservative colleagues were more agreeable.
People close to justices on the far-right told CNN those justices were heartened by Roberts, after years of suspicions about his efforts at the center of the bench, most famously with his switched vote in 2012 that upheld the Affordable Care Act.
Biskupic also suggests that Roberts was feeling embittered after standing alone in Dobbs.
Not this year, so very unlike 2022, when Thomas and other conservatives pushed through the Dobbs ruling and Roberts stood alone between embittered factions. The chief justice chided his colleagues on both sides for displaying "a relentless freedom from doubt on the legal issue."
This year, he stepped to the right, and he displayed no doubt.
I made a very similar point after Loper Bright was decided:
And why did Roberts pull the trigger in Loper Bright–especially after he stopped short in Kisor? I think Roberts was personally humiliated that he couldn't broker a compromise in Dobbs, and was stuck on the outside looking in. It was position of weakness for the Chief Justice to be. Once Roberts realized there were five votes to overrule Chevron, he did not want to be left in the cold. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
I don't know how long this Roberts rapprochement will last. Let's see who wins the election.
Finally, we get this charming vignette hat doesn't really advance any narrative:
As the justices were drafting opinions, the court hewed to age-old routines. Law clerks arranged their traditional end-of-term skit for late June. Roberts and Justice Clarence Thomas continued with their planned reunions of former law clerks. And Roberts, for the first time in several years, readied to teach in a summer program abroad sponsored by New England Law Boston in Galway, Ireland.
To continue the theme, the Court really is like a reality show, with shifting alliances, though no one can get voted off the island.
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Bad old days? Like in recent years when the Wall St. Journal not only directly talked with Alito but had multiple accounts arising from chatter from conservative chambers?
"No one dissented from the Court's order. That suggests there was consensus."
There rarely are public dissents in such cases. In various cases, reports come out -- in at least one case Alito himself noted this, that justices privately dissented but did not do publicly.
We don't know how much long-term SCOTUS reporter Joan Biskupic relied on inside accounts in specific cases & the actual nature [what chambers are represented?] of the sources. We can, of course, assume a lot, tossing in uh subtle digs. Reality-show?
I don't think the analysis is some profound discussion filled with surprising new information. It is an interesting and useful analysis geared to the general reader, not just law professors.
I also think part of this is a tabloid-sounding "("exclusive" / "inside story") headline that is likely put there by an editor.
"We don’t know how much long-term SCOTUS reporter Joan Biskupic relied on inside accounts in specific cases & the actual nature [what chambers are represented?]"
Yeah, I'm sure it was just a coincidence that after RBG died Joan Biskupic's sources ran dry.
Almost all the criticism of the immunity holding is based on the dishonest characterization of the actual holding in Sotomayor's dissent.
I guess you forgot about the criticism in Barrett's concurrence....
GRB you obviously havent read Jackson's or Sotomayor's dissent - otherwise you would be fully aware of their dishonest characterization of the opinion
Barret's concurring opinion doesnt have any of the dishonestly that the dissents have.
I agree that the dissents did not fairly characterize the majority opinion. They treated it as if it were a judicial opinion, when in reality it was nothing but pure partisan politics, with not a smidge of law contained therein.
Apart from the exectutive vesting clause and respect for the constitutional separation of powers. Aren't you the same commenter who believes there are no separation of powers concerns because the special counsel is an executive "officer"?
Joe_dallas : “GRB you obviously havent read Jackson’s or Sotomayor’s dissent”
In fact, I did. You obviously haven’t read Barrett’s concurrence. She mentioned some agreement with the Sotomayor’s dissent you completely reject.
But then she’s a serious person. You’re not.
Page 8 &9 of jackson's dissent
In the end, then, under the majority’s new paradigm, whether the President will be exempt from legal liability for murder, assault, theft, fraud or any other reprehensible and outlawed criminal act willturn on whether he committed that act in his official capac¬ity,,
page 10 of jackson dissent
Also, under the new Presidential accountability model, thestarting presumption is that the criminal law does not ap¬ply to Presidents, no matter how obviously illegal, harmful,or unacceptable a President’s official behavior might be.Regardless of all that, courts must now ensure that a for¬mer President is not held accountable for any criminal con¬duct he engages in while he is on duty, unless his conduct consists primarily (and perhaps solely) of unofficial acts.
page 26 of sotomayor's dissent
Imagine a President states in an official speechthat he intends to stop a political rival from passing legis¬lation that he opposes, no matter what it takes to do so (of¬ficial act). He then hires a private hitman to murder thatpolitical rival (unofficial act). Under the majority’s rule, themurder indictment could include no allegation of the Presi¬dent’s public admission of premeditated intent to support the mens rea of murder.
I assume that these are the parts that you feel are "dishonest characterization[s]"? Can you elaborate on how you feel they're inaccurately describing the majority's holding?
see below.
You don't actually explain how any of those claims are inaccurate.
So, that the dissent has abandoned reasoned analysis for insane hypotheticals isn't quite enough for you? OK, I would say that the dissents are basically variations of the idiotic Seal Team Six hypo. It's laughable to believe that a rogue president who abuses his authority to murder citizen opponents but remains in office by Congressional abdication would somehow realistically have anything to fear from a courageously "independent" Jack Smith federal prosecutor. Such a president would be a new dictator and have nothing to fear from the Jack Smiths of the world. Hell, they'd be goose stepping right behind him, like the present one.
If you don’t like hypotheticals…did you read the main opinion?
During argument before the Court of Appeals, the Seal Team Six hypothetical was intended to ridicule the position that counsel for Donald Trump was advocating. Who could have predicted that SCOTUS would rule that a President does have immunity under those circumstances?
If your position is that the dissent is correct about the consequences of the holding, but that it doesn't matter, that's fine. But it doesn't make the dissent's description of the holding dishonest.
(Though it's perhaps worth noting that you appear to be misunderstanding the issue: it's not about whether a current president can be prosecuted, but whether a former one can be. And by definition, a former president isn't a dictator.)
I didn’t say the dissent is correct. Their hypotheticals are absurd on their face. My point about the Seal Team Six hypo is that such nonsense is completely unhelpful in any analysis, given that it essentially presents the question of a coup for which the issue of immunity is irrelevant one way or the other.
And it is perhaps now worth responding that a president’s status at the time of prosecution isn’t relevant, it is whether the conduct at issue was official or not while he was in office. Such conduct doesn’t become magically unofficial after he leaves office.
All examples showing that the dissents abandoned any serious attempt at constitutional analysis to fear monger with insane hypotheticals. As noted in the majority: “Like everyone else, the President is subject to prosecution in his unofficial capacity. But unlike anyone else, the President is a branch of government, and the Constitution vests in him sweeping powers and duties. Accounting for that reality—and ensuring that the President may exercise those powers forcefully, as the Framers anticipated he would—does not place him above the law; it preserves the basic structure of the Constitution from which that law derives.”
Moreover, Roberts properly observes that a lack of immunity would more likely result in "an Executive Branch that cannibalizes itself, with each successive President free to prosecute his predecessors, yet unable to boldly and fearlessly carry out his duties for fear that he may be next.”
You mean, like "an Executive Branch that cannibalizes itself, with each successive President free to prosecute his predecessors, yet unable to boldly and fearlessly carry out his duties for fear that he may be next." Yes, that does in fact fit your description. Whatever that is, it ain't "constitutional analysis." At best, it's a policy argument rather than a legal one. And it's insane to think this would happen, given that presidential immunity was invented 230 years after the constitution was ratified and this never happened.
Also not clear why presidents should act boldly and fearlessly rather than prudently and carefully. (But I reiterate: that's a policy argument, not a legal one.)
Immunity is quite clearly grounded in the framework of our constitution of separated powers. It is not just policy. But more fundamentally, it is strikingly clear why presidents should be able to act boldly and fearlessly in light of a national emergency. No rational person would wants a dithering incompetent in office. Wasn’t that the reason for the democrat party coup ousting old Joe from his candidacy?
quite clearly!
strikingly clear!
Hey, it's in the emanations and penumbras; that's good enough for Riva.
The executive vesting clause and separation of powers principles are not found in any penumbras. But aside from you lack of understand of the immunity decision, it is interesting that you seem to mock Griswold. I wouldn’t have thought you wanted to criminalize the use of contraception.
Almost everything Joe_dallas says is a lie.
Jason – has not read the opinion nor has he read the dissent
Get back to use when you want to be honest
Joe has read the opinion. He's very proud.
Here we have a distinction between reading and understanding.
He wants you to think so, but he has never actually said that.
I'd have said he's too simple for that kind of artifice. but he did try out a sockpuppet about a month ago...
Get back to me when you understand the separations of powers principles at issue.
People have engaged with you on this. Pointed you to the constitutional text. Pointed you to the lack of original practice. Pointed you to the lack of precedents.
And here you are, like you heard none of it. Almost like you were a bot with a neural net not receiving any additional training input.
What kind of a bull shit response is that? “People have engaged with you on this.” Yeah, I have exchanged comments, and noted to blithely ignorant asses such as yourself, the basis of the decision. But since here you, an ignorant ass, are asserting the same nonsense crap, I ask do you have any understanding of the seperation of powers principles underlying that decision?
You refuse to learn, and resent anyone trying to teach you, because disagreement is ignorance.
You repeat yourself, but it's totally a power move because you've listened to, understood, and discarded everyone's counterarguments.
Certainly this is not a canned response hard coded when someone notes your suspiciously static outputs.
Which I suppose, is some sort of Sacastr0 language essentially meaning that you don't understand the constitutional principles underlying the Court's decision entitling the president to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for all actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority and a presumption of immunity for all his official acts. My mistake again for not taking my own advice and arguing law with a layman, especially a hyperpartisan layman who likes to play lawyer.
I am a lawyer.
Citing 'constitutional principles' is a great way to write the most living constitutional opinion ever.
If that were true, you should sue the law school that produced you, whatever jurisdiction would license you, and yourself for just being an ass.
I would think that suing on the basis of oneself being a bad lawyer couldn't possibly succeed: winning would only be possible if it weren't true.
Does Riva claim to be a lawyer?
I agree Magister. Everybody loses if Sarcastr0 is a licensed attorney.
As for Rev. whatever, it is also well known never to argue law with a lunatic.
"You refuse to learn..."
Many of us have learned that a purely partisan opinion with no basis in law is just an opinion that the speaker doesn't like.
I don't see how this is an exception.
"Pointed you to the lack of original practice. Pointed you to the lack of precedents..."
Huh? Where are examples of original practice of a President being prosecuted for official acts? Maybe that's why there's a lack of precedents.
Say what you will, Presidential immunity for official acts has a lot more constitutional basis than a right to an abortion or to gay marriage.
Presidential immunity for official acts has a lot more constitutional basis than a right to an abortion or to gay marriage.
Did you learn how to argue from Riva?
The argument is pretty straightforward: 235, roughly, years of Presidents never being prosecuted for official acts, vs a history of abortion routinely being a crime, and gay marriage not being a thing anywhere in the WORLD until 2001.
Then the fact that the Constitution affirmatively authorizes official acts, making it pretty hard to argue they can be criminalized, vs the Constitution having nothing at all to say about abortion or gay marriage.
This is an argument, so you're over TiP's low bar, but it's very bad.
1) You ignore the long expectation that Presidents *could* be prosecuted if they did crimes via their power. No one dreamed of this immunity during Watergate.
2) It's a very empty argument to ignore the insistence that Trump is extraordinary. Which view makes the lack of precedent only show how awful Trump is. Which view is correct? I suggest you engage in that issue when next you make an argument, or else it's empty.
3) "the Constitution affirmatively authorizes official acts" runs up against the existence of the Speech and Debate clause existing. It is also kinda circular.
"If they did crimes via their power"
Oh, you mean like Obama having a US citizen murdered? No trial or anything, just ordered him killed? That sort of crime?
No, I'm unaware of any such long expectation.
In Watergate, Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon, so we'll never know if he could have been prosecuted.
Kinda circular, no? You're using your treating Trump differently from previous Presidents to establish your conclusion that he's different. From this side, it just looks like an excuse for attacking a President who's only difference is how much you hate him.
"“the Constitution affirmatively authorizes official acts” runs up against the existence of the Speech and Debate clause existing. It is also kinda circular."
Something like an argument here. Or maybe it just indicates that they didn't think speech and debate, as opposed to votes, were official acts.
You're again making the same mistake as you did with respect to Rahimi. The mere fact that the government didn't do something isn't evidence that people thought the government couldn't do that thing. What president did the sorts of things that would get someone prosecuted and wasn't prosecuted because of an immunity argument? Did anyone even remotely suggest that there might be the possibility Nixon was immune from prosecution?
You made a sweeping statement without any support whatsoever, so I did the same.
“The Court really is like a reality show.”
It is? We don’t know that. Yes, it’s being reported on like one. But this style of reporting may tell us much more about the observers than it does about what they are observing.
I'm looking forward to the next season, when a new group of participants is introduced to the island. Perhaps fewer old, cranky, bigoted, superstitious, obsolete white men.
That’s what got you in trouble in the first place, Coach, “introducing” “little Jerry” to the new “participants”
This case was not about this President, or any other President.
Riiiiight.
We do not have Obama judges or Clinton judges or Trump judges…we only have Bush judges which is why we helped him steal an election and provide cover for him torturing and slaughtering innocent Muslims.
Chief Justice Roberts
I thought Biden's Supreme Court reform proposal actually will let them get voted off the island.
Souter retired to Cancun and does jello shots and motor boats women every night…oh wait, he sits by a fire in New Hampshire and reads books by himself every night. People that make the Supreme Court can’t have fun except maybe Kavanaugh who will never be the jurist that his mother was!! NEVER!!
Professor Blackman writes:
There is no need to move to expedite. The government's brief is due not later than August 27. Trump's brief is due within 30 days thereafter, and any reply brief is due within 21 days after the Trump brief. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca11.87822/gov.uscourts.ca11.87822.12.0.pdf
All the Special Counsel needs to do to speed up consideration of the case is to file the government's briefs before the deadlines for filing.
Judge Cannon's ruling is so egregiously wrong that the Court of Appeals could decide it without oral argument. See Fed.R.App.P. 34(a)(2)(C) and 11th Cir. R. 34-3(b)(3). What would oral argument add here?
Smith can't expedite the appeal by filing his briefs early. In most courts of appeals, submission of the case -- either with or without oral argument -- is driven by the filing date; not by the date the briefs are completed. As parties routinely seek and are routinely granted extensions (and the courts are pushing appeal mediation), the submission schedule builds in extra time. If he wants the 11th Circuit to act quickly -- and there is no sign that he does, Smith will need to ask them to do so.
As to oral argument -- given what the issue is, who the parties are and that the decision in question tracks the reasoning of a Supreme Court concurrence, I would be stunned if there wasn't oral argument, which is, after all, fairly routine.
The dismissal of a criminal indictment is not the kind of case that can be mediated.
Aileen Cannon has made the federal judiciary look bad here, and not for the first time. The Eleventh Circuit did not hesitate to bench slap her twice so far, and I suspect they are eager to do so again.
Probably not eager, at least not the conservatives. but likely ready.
I believe not guilty is just saying that Smith can speed up the process by filing his briefing early. That is, if he were to wait the full 30 days, then Trump’s brief would not be due until September 26, whereas if he filed it today, Trump would need to respond by August 29. Also, there is no appeal mediation in criminal cases. I do agree, though, that there will almost certainly be an oral argument.
Which will likely push oral arguments into October, and a decision after the election.
Politico: Appeals court timeline suggests months more of delay for Jack Smith’s documents case against Trump
Then, there are the problems of ownership of the documents (NARA or Trump) and the classification or declassification status of the disputed documents (who gets to decide, whether EOs control later Presidents, etc). We know there are further pending issues for the 11th Circuit because Judge Cannon provided the parties with two alternative jury instructions on ownership of the documents, both in favor of Trump. Smith and Bratt were visibly upset because neither supported their theory of the case, but since these jury proposed instructions were preliminary, they were not yet appealable. And Cannon is not about to finalize this jury instruction until after this dismissal of the case by her is resolved. That means that even if Smith gets his expedited appeal on this issue, he then wins in the 11th Circuit, then Trump doesn’t get 4 votes for Cert (probably 3 (Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch) are guaranteed), the trial isn’t likely to start until mid 2025 at the earliest. With a 4th vote for Cert, expect a decision by June, and if Smith continues winning his appeals, a possibility of a late 2025 trial.
No matter how many times you lie about this, this is not an issue in this case. Also, there isn’t a non-frivolous argument Trump owns them.
There are no disputed documents and their classification status isn’t an issue in the case either.
I should also add that the things you're talking about are questions of fact for the jury. (Even you should realize that, given your reference to jury charges.) So none of that can, or needs to, be resolved at this time.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.407.0.pdf
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/03/19/donald-trump-classified-documents-jury-instructions/73027873007/
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/politics/special-counsel-mar-a-lago-jury-instructions/index.html
Also’ Trump’s response to the 407 (proposed jury instruction) Order (above) by Judge Cannon:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.427.0_1.pdf
Now who is the liar?
BTW - this is the authoritative list of relevant documents in the Trump case in the ED FL.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/united-states-v-trump/
ORDER REQUIRING PRELIMINARY PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTIONS AND VERDICT FORMS ON COUNTS 1–32 ONLY
On or before April 2, 2024, Defendant Trump and the Special Counsel each shall file proposed jury instructions limited to the essential elements of the offenses charged in Counts 1 through 32 of the Superseding Indictment [ECF No. 85], along with proposed verdict forms for those counts (general or special).1 Moreover, understanding that juries are judges of the facts, not the law, the proposals shall take care to specify (in incorporated briefing as necessary) exactly what factual questions are reserved for the jury on Counts 1 through 32 in light of the recently argued motions to dismiss[ECFNos.325,327].2 With respect to the proposed language pertinent to the issue of “unauthorized possession” specifically, the parties must engage with the following competing scenarios and offer alternative draft text that assumes each scenario to be a correct formulation of the law to be issued to the jury, while reserving counterarguments.
(a) In a prosecution of a former president for allegedly retaining documents in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 793(e), a jury is permitted to examine a record retained by a former president in his/her personal possession at the end of his/her presidency and make a factual finding as to whether the government has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is personal or presidential using the definitions set forth in the Presidential Records Act (PRA).3
(b) A president has sole authority under the PRA to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency. Neither a court nor a jury is permitted to make or review such a categorization decision. Although there is no formal means in the PRA by which a president is to make that categorization, an outgoing president’s decision to exclude what he/she considers to be personal records from presidential records transmitted to the National Archives and Records Administration constitutes a president’s categorization of those records as personal under the PRA.
DONE AND ORDERED in Chambers at Fort Pierce, Florida, this 18th day of March 2024
It appears Prof. Blackman and his fellow Heritage Foundation-Federalist Society mouthpieces have new marching orders:
Carry on, bitter clingers.