The Volokh Conspiracy
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What Would It Mean For Lower Federal Court Judges To Enforce A Code Of Conduct Against Supreme Court Justices?
Does Justice Kagan really want Chief Judge Kimberly Moore to give Justice Thomas the Pauline Newman treatment?
When Justice Kagan speaks to the Ninth Circuit judicial conference, after cutting through all the pleasantries and bromides, her primary objective is to give the left a to-do list. She doesn't sob in her office. She punches through walls. This year, Kagan casually floated an idea that has taken shape: Justice John Roberts could appoint some panel of "judges lower down the food chain" to review allegations of misconduct.
As a threshold matter, she threw Justice Thomas under his RV, and raised Justice Alito up his flagpole. Not even a year after the Court adopted an ethics code--which was part of Kagan's earlier wish-list--Kagan is already saying that the rules are not enough. There have to be teeth!
I'll repeat a few points I've made more times than I can count. Ethics codes are not bright-line rules. They merely offer guidance to judges about how to proceed. All federal judges, even the Justices, can request informal advice from their colleagues, or judges on other courts. Though not binding, judges tend to do what others have done. Judicial ethics body have only very limited tools to enforce ethics codes. These institutions can issue private and public reprimands. In extreme cases, they can refer a judge for impeachment. At that point, it is up to Congress to act. But the ultimate death sentence is to prevent a judge from being a judge.
Take the Federal Circuit. The well-respected judges of that court have removed Judge Pauline Newman from hearing any cases until she submits to a health exam with the doctor of their choice. Newman filed a valiant legal challenge, but has lost in the District Court, and her hope now lies in the D.C. Circuit. Moreover, the Federal Circuit recently excommunicated her for another year. Newman is 97 years young. Chief Judge Kimberly Moore and her colleagues are probably waiting for Judge Newman to die. This is a stealth impeachment, and the other federal judges have done nothing about it. They are too busy trying to punish litigants in Texas for filing cases where the venue statutes permit them to file. (There is action afoot in the rules committee--stay tuned.) Anyway, I digress.
These are the things that lower court judges can do to enforce ethics codes. Does Justice Kagan really want to empower the likes of Judge Moore and others to suspend Supreme Court Justices from hearing cases? Or allow some inferior panel to force a Justice to recuse from a particular case? Will there now be entire rounds of litigation before these panels immediately after a cert grant?
The Wall Street Journal editorial board raises some other questions:
Could her panel issue subpoenas to investigate allegations? How would it sanction Justices who enjoy life tenure? Wouldn't setting up such a system encourage frivolous complaints, filed for partisan PR purposes or to make the process into the punishment?
Once this process exists, there will be thousands upon thousands of frivolous complaints. Look at the thousand "orchestrated" complaints filed against Judge Aileen Cannon--so many that Chief Judge Pryor ordered the clerk's office to stop accepting them! And this is only one district court judge. Imagine what will happen for Justices Thomas and Alito. There will be at least one judge somewhere who finds one of these complaints meritorious. Who will be the first Justice to get the Pauline Newman treatment? Did Kagan really think this suggestion through a policy matter?
I haven't even addressed the separation of powers problems: inferior judges sitting in judgment of apex officials. No way this flies.
At the end of the day, all of these calls for "judicial reform" are addressing a problem that barely exists, and mandate solutions that would cause substantial harm to the judiciary. Judge Jim Ho frames the issue well in his new National Review essay:
The double standards aren't an accident. They're intentional. They're a strategy to create a perverse incentive structure for judges: If you rule the way the critics dictate, you won't be criticized. You'll be fêted. But if you don't, you'll be ostracized.
That's why the double standards don't seem to trouble the critics. Because, to the critics, this isn't a debate — it's a war. The critics don't want neutrality. They want conformity. If you don't conform, they'll call you corrupt, unethical, racist, sexist, homophobic. They'll say you're just trolling, or auditioning. Whatever it takes for you to bend the knee. And even if you still won't conform, they'll attack you anyway, because others will get the message and comply.
Critics have repeatedly said that they want to pack the Court. But there's no need for them to pack the Court if they can just pressure the Court to do what they want.
I don't think Justice Kagan sees things in quite this light, but her proposals gives ammunition to those who do.
I regret that Justice Kagan started down this road. Given that President Biden will soon announce his own Court reform, this issue is on the wall. Once the filibuster is abolished--as Senator Elizabeth Warren has promised--I suspect the Court will be placed under this regime. My other predictions from four years ago may yet come to fruition.
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/28/us/cbp-officers-seize-illegal-drugs-twice/index.html
This is what liberalism is about. Trump should make it clear that a vote for Harris is a vote for this type of lawlessness.
"Once the filibuster is abolished–as Senator Elizabeth Warren has promised–I suspect the Court will be placed under this regime."
Well, assuming Democrats hold the Senate, recapture the House, and win the Presidency, anyway...
They're gonna steal a full set this time.
Why not? They keep getting away with it and they have the support of the Deep State.
It will be just like Venezuela was today.
Here’s a guideline for an ethical code for judges:
Judges don’t get to behave like legal clients looking for loopholes so they can get away with not reporting gifts they receive. When Clarence Thomas says “I asked someone whether I could accept these gifts without disclosing, and he said it was OK”, that should already require his resignation. He should be looking for ways to disclose MORE, not less, and to decline MORE proposed gifts, not fewer.
It’s a matter of attitude.
I got an attitude for you,
It's about 12 inches long, OK, 10, maybe 7, OK, 5, White, and has made thousands of women very very happy (that they didn't have to see it)
Just another way of saying, "A Bitch, Paybacks are" (HT Yoda)
Frank
Pay attention, kids. Frank's post is an example of what psychiatrists call "coprolalia."
There's already a code of ethics for federal judges.:
https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges
For some reason, many "conservatives" seem to think that this shouldn't apply to the justices of the Supreme Court. Granted, it currently doesn't, but that would seem to be more of a bug than a feature.
I've yet to hear a good argument why the justices should be immune from the same standards that every other federal judge has to follow. Blackman's bloviating is just so much sucking up to the powerful, which, sadly, seems to be what passes for "conservative" these days.
What about those million dollar book advances, which probably won't sell a tenth of that?
What kind of friends do you have, and how much is it anybody else's business?
I mean, those Supreme Court Justice books look like they make money well above the advances they get.
Maybe it's all a scam, but that should be provable if you want to make a federal case of it.
Unusually large book advances, or per-book deals, accompanied by the patter it's worth the risk because politicians and The People wanna hear them, is a known, legal way to bribe them. It's hardly limited to judges.
It’s legal.
Known way to bribe is just you lowing your usual made up corruption smoke.
Great comment!
"It's legal."
Gee, I thought this was supposed to be a code of ethics, not a code of "law".
….So your plan is for the ethics code to say no unusually big big book advances?
No.
You and Krayt are not arguing the same thesis.
So, your plan is to pretend that absurdly large book advances AREN'T a way to pass money to figures in government while pretending it's legit pay for work?
You'll whine that Thomas got a good price on a reverse mortgage for the house his mom was living in, but not blink at a Justice getting an advance that amounts to $6 per book sold?
Read the thread.
“ Maybe it’s all a scam, but that should be provable if you want to make a federal case of it.”
A big advance alone proves nothing.
Attempting to parallel it to what Thomas got and from whom underscores the distinction.
I’m glad you admit it was a good price Thomas got. Last week you didn’t seem like you would acknowledge even that.
Of course it was a good price. Just a good price, not absurd if the aim actually IS to turn it into a museum, but a good price.
Not insane, like some of these book advances, which are basically just publishers cutting checks to the Justices right out in the open.
Let’s put this in context.
Jackson recently got a book advance of $893,000 for a book she “planned” to write.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-06-07/supreme-court-justices-disclose-book-advances-including-900-000-for-jackson
Typical book royalties for an author are 10-15%. So, this book of Jackson’s would need to do something like 9 Million in sales to make back the money for the publisher. Or sell something on the order of 300,000 copies. At full $29.99 price. If it starts at the paperback price (Like Sotomayor’s My Beloved World at $10.11 on Amazon), it would need closer to 900,000 copies sold.
SCOTUS-authored books simply don’t sell 900,000 copies. Even the best of them is just 506,000 copies. Usually it’s in the 50,000-100,000 range.
And remember this is an “Advance”…not a total payment. The author, if they exceeded the advance, would get royalties.
Nearly a million dollars for an advance, (a tax-free loan at best, straight out loss at worse) for an author who has never published anything before, the class of author which typically gets 100,000 copies sold…Makes no fiscal sense.
You lean on typical, which who the hell knows if and when that applies.
You need a lot more evidence there’s a bribe going on.
The pro move would be to ask the publisher or check out what other Justices get.
Naaah, though. You don’t have anything else.
Quit making spurious allegations to try and defend Justice Thomas. We all know you’re a tool who will take outcomes over ethics.
If all justices are grossly overpaid, how is that NOT an ethics issue?
And I’ll take Congressional demands for ethics rules as less than a total joke when they stop insider trading.
Only one link per post.
But here are the numbers of books sold by Justices. The "typical" is representative. A $900,000 advance on an unproven author with book numbers that realistically would need to exceed every other justice ever...it's not reasonable. At least as a financial decision.
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/bookselling/article/92922-the-sales-numbers-on-books-by-supreme-court-justices.html#:~:text=The%20one%20he%20wrote%20shortly,now%20owned%20by%20Thomson%20Reuters).
Armchair, your business judgement is as trustworthy as your legal analysis.
damikesc. That’s the price set by capitalism. You are right there’s a legit issue there, but we should start with CEO pay first.
Does a D.C police officer have the right to ticket the President of the United States if he catches him speeding?
My answer to that question is “yes”.
Would a District of Colored People Police Officer have had the right to ticket former DemoKKKrat Senator Ted Kennedy (now one of the "Dead Kennedys") for driving his car off a Bridge and leaving a young woman to Asphyxiate (not Drown, there's a difference)??
My answer to that question is "yes"
Frank
I mean I would say no, because Chappaquiddick is not in D.C. But a Massachusetts police officers should have had the right to do so, as I think is obvious to everyone. I'm not sure I understand the argument here.
I just love saying "District of Colored People"
We've noticed that -- and a lot of other, similar things, too.
There's a word for it.
Is he speeding because he needs to get somewhere because of a national emergency or is he just speeding because he finally got the car out of the garage with the classified documents he had stored there?
He's speeding because he's forgotten he's president, and he really needs to get back to his beach house before rush hour hits.
Does he make "Vroom! Vroom!" sound effects while the Officer waits for his license info to come back?
Does that DC police officer have the right to then throw the President in the city jail for 24 hours if he's been caught recklessly driving?
Probably not. Any person of means that can afford to have an attorney on retainer would be out of jail fairly quickly.
But the that's probably not the point you were trying to make.
Perhaps. But that's more "soft power"...like the fact the cop probably won't give the President a ticket in the first place. Or the President will get the ticket removed in court. Or the President will get a rich "friend" to pay it off. Advantages of money and power and all.
But the cop has the "right" to arrest people violating the law, and the "right" to put them in jail, at least temporarily. Up to 72 hours in some districts, without even needing charges filed. Could such a cop simply arrest the President, and drop them in jail for 24 - 72 hours, off a reasonable crime?
Let's say the President gets a lawyer on the phone fast...how long are they in jail? An hour? What if the judge on the other end doesn't pick up the phone?
if this theoretical POTUS had competent Secret Service protection (I know, a big "If") even given the slim chance they would let him drive, wouldn't they shoot anyone who approached the POTUS with a firearm?? (OK, another big "If")
Same way I knew "45" wouldn't go to Rikers when he was to be sentenced on July 11 (funny how that case has just sort of dried up and withered away, like Capitalism will if Common-Law Harris-Willie-Brown gets her fat ass in the Oval Orifice) SS would say "We can't protect him there" and would take him to an "Undisclosed Location"
Frank
It's happened before!
It's been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrests_of_Ulysses_S._Grant
An accurate statement with a credible cite! Congratulation!
It's a pretty good story...make sure you get far enough to learn about the arresting officer.
They do not seem to have that power in regards to Congress people. Why?
They've gotten out of clear drunk driving arrests by claiming that they had to go for a vote.
At 2 in the morning.
Because the Constitution explicitly said that members of Congress had that particular immunity.
Kagan’s obviously never played Chess, another activity where the only Female that could compete with the top Males would be a Female of the Bruce/Kaitlin Jenner persuasion. Why can't they compete? no Upper Body Strength/Fast Twitch Muscles/Vertical Jump, Narrow Pelvis involved, just good old fashioned Brain Power.
Frank
It's that darned Y chromosome, skews the statistics on every gene you find on the X. Somehow nobody thinks it's unfair that there are more male idiots than female, but that's just the other side of the same coin as there being more male geniuses.
and as someone who watched Bobby Fischer humiliate Boris Spaz-ky in 1972 (Chess isn't a Sport? why was the match featured on "ABC's Wild Word of Sports"?) and hoped to be the next Bobby F (Mom would take me and my Board, complete with Time Clock to MacArthur park, where I'd play these ancient Jewish guys, Black Guys (Frankie Tip, if you find a Black Guy who's good at Chess, 100% he did hard time) Arthur Fonzarelli look-a-likes, you know the only Chicks I played? The ones with Dicks.
Chess is demanding physically, not the pushing of wood (mine were plastic) but the 52 things you have to go through before each move, what is at risk right now?, what becomes at risk if I make this move? what will he do if I make that move? and given on any random Chess turn you usually have 20-30 possible moves (usually 3/4 so obviously bad you can ignore them) and your opponent the same, it's why it took 5,000 years to "Evolve" a Computer that could beat the Human World Champion
Frank
The Polgar sisters would like a word.
What would it mean? You don't want to find out.
IMO, none of these proposals can be implemented without a Constitutional Amendment. The Constitution clearly states that judge and justices "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office." The only way to remove a federal judge is by impeachment. The notion that a committee of lower court judges can remove or reduce the compensation of a justice is completely counter to the Constitution.
A committee could be created to investigate lapses and report to the House and Senate (or their respective judiciary committees). They could also recommend impeachment or censure. That's the max I see that can be done.
Indeed. And any appeal made would come right back to the SCOTUS. Where, if the SCOTUS was wise...they would eliminate any "punishment" such an "ethics board" would make.
Is the only possible sanction removal?
I also mentioned reduction in salary. Which is unconstitutional, IMO.
What other sanction do you have in mind?
There's naming and shaming all up and down the spectrum from reprimand to censure. There's fines as well. And referrals to the Chief Justice.
Reprimand and censure could be done, FWIW.
Fines would require a jury trial. Can't see that happening.
Referral to the Chief Justice -- to do what? Reprimand?
Sounds like weak sauce to me.
Referral to Congress with a recommendation to act a certain way seems the strongest a committee could do. Such a recommendation would be released publicly and have a shaming effect by itself.
Chief Justice assigns cases.
But don't sleep on censure. Especially if they keep it rare (by having a ramp up of reprimands and whatnot.)
A lot on here think only of the economic, not the psychological.
People, especially important people, don't much like being publicly shamed, especially by their colleagues.
Maybe judges. Elected officials have no shame. This is why they can lie convincingly. They don't care what you think of them.
Change the subject to beat your usual utterly unsupported drum.
Lots of people can lie convincingly. Is every actor shameless?
Elected officials is not a special job with a special breed of human in it. You just make that part up based on your gut feelz.
Great comment!
Steve Vladeck had some interesting suggestions a while back
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/opinions/supreme-court-code-of-conduct-clarence-thomas-vladeck/index.html
"The only way to remove a federal judge is by impeachment."
The constitution mentions good behaviour as the standard, but is silent as to the mechanism of removal.
There's no reason Congress couldn't provide for a writ of scire facias i.e. a "writ of good behavior" as a removal mechanism.
Sounds more like little trickies to work around stuff.
We'll, there's the reason that it's redundant. We already know that impeachment is legitimately applied to any behavior that Congress doesn't like. Adding another mechanism smells like an attempt to evade the balances built into the impeachment process.
That the Supreme court would strike it down is kind of the point, isn't it? They're deliberately doing stuff the Supreme court can't let stand, to gin up opposition to the Court, and build a case for Court packing.
We don’t even know what the proposals will be but you already have the liberal plot figured out.
Why are you like this?
Disaffectedness. Antisocial tendencies. Autism. Resentment. Decades on the losing side of the culture war. Bigotry.
FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Bold Plan to Reform the Supreme Court and Ensure No President Is Above the Law
Relevantly,
"2:
Term Limits for Supreme Court Justices: Congress approved term limits for the Presidency over 75 years ago, and President Biden believes they should do the same for the Supreme Court. The United States is the only major constitutional democracy that gives lifetime seats to its high court Justices. Term limits would help ensure that the Court’s membership changes with some regularity; make timing for Court nominations more predictable and less arbitrary; and reduce the chance that any single Presidency imposes undue influence for generations to come. President Biden supports a system in which the President would appoint a Justice every two years to spend eighteen years in active service on the Supreme Court.
3: Binding Code of Conduct for the Supreme Court: President Biden believes that Congress should pass binding, enforceable conduct and ethics rules that require Justices to disclose gifts, refrain from public political activity, and recuse themselves from cases in which they or their spouses have financial or other conflicts of interest. Supreme Court Justices should not be exempt from the enforceable code of conduct that applies to every other federal judge."
"and recuse themselves from cases in which they or their spouses have financial or other conflicts of interest." I think including spouses is a bit much.
Binding!
Yes, clearly a plot by the radical Biden admin to make the Supreme Court lose legitimacy.
You've really got a screw loose.
I love that lamest lame duck humanly possible expects to get anything whatsoever done.
I love commenters—Bless Their Hearts—who feel they must proclaim their lack of understanding how meaningful, long-term change happens.
Interesting.
Shouldn't that committee already be in place?
How would it be constituted and what would be its defense against political capture?
This is a solution in search of a problem. The Democrats are upset with the Supreme Court because it makes decisions they don't like. They complain the Court is "ideological", but everyone knows they have no issues with ideological courts, as long as they have the correct ideology. A unanimous "MAGA Court" just preserved the ability to ship abortion pills through the mail. When is the last time a Democrat-appointed justice voted to uphold an abortion restriction? Byron White?
Nothing will come of this. It's just campaign fodder for the Democrats, something to distract voters from real, immediate issues affecting their lives, though I do not believe it will work.
Everyone knows!
I'm curious to learn how the separation of powers can be implicated in purely intra-branch dynamics.
Voize — Court supremacists interpret any constraints on Court power as separation of powers problems. In particular, political pressures for the Court to reform might find expression in congressional action. That, plus, “hocus pocus,” turns, “separation of powers,” into a magical incantation to empower any Court action at all, however arbitrary.
"purely" is doing a lot of unsupported work there. Who appoints the lower level-but-superior judge in the ethics proposal?
For background, let's start with the [emphasized] Constitutional authority in short sections of Articles 1 (Legislative), 2 (Executive), and 3 (Judicial):
Article 3 explicitly gives Congress, without limit, the authority to "ordain and establish" the framework, rules, and practices of the entire federal judiciary system, including SCOTUS in its exercise of "appellate Jurisdiction" (that is, for everything except several named exceptions) "…with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make."
Congress, as part of its “under such Regulations” legislation functionally creating the Judiciary, decided to call its SCOTUS Judges, "Justice," which does not shield them from the rest of the rules Congress alone is allowed to empower as enforceable law—including the existing legislative "binding ethics code" under which, by long-existing statute, both federal judges and SCOTUS justices are already subject to laws on conflict of interest and recusal:
There’s more but that’s the gist. But note the shall and must.
The new recently released SCOTUS ethics code doesn’t include 28 USC § 455’s enforcement mechanism: a process to bring potential violations to a 3rd-party panel for investigation and possible action. Per 28 U.S. Code § 331, that 3rd-party is the Judicial Conference of the United States, chaired by the Chief Justice; there seems little objection to it.
So, Congress can easily clarify all this by simply drafting new legislation replacing the new SCOTUS Ethics Code's shoulds, with musts and shalls; and adding 3rd-party enforcement, essentially creating a Regulation under Article 3’s "such Exceptions & Regulations" clause.
There is a catch to all this and you've already thought of it, right? No, it's not that it would require a federal trifecta—that's already assumed. It's that any SCOTUS refusing to establish binding ethics rules itself, would certainly find any such congressional action unconstitutional.
Games up! Or, is it? Note that the last sentence in the Article 3, Section 2, clause 2 quote above, grants Congress (theoretically) the power to, for most matters, bound the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction (it's been done before, without controversy).
So, A Modest Proposal: Include a "such Exception" in the new ethics (and term limits?) legislation, removing it from the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction (i.e., not subject to SCOTUS adjudication).
How’s that for a shift in the Separation of Powers?
Purple Martin — Textually, it makes sense. I suggest Congress add definitions of specific ethics violations—saying which of them warrant what punishments, including removal from office upon findings of serious bad behavior.
Congress must also define what process is due to an accused judge or justice. And then make findings of bad behavior on that basis self-enforcing, with removal from office unappealable in defined cases.
There is no constitutional right to hold office which can properly constrain the jointly sovereign People's judgment of bad behavior. Even the Supreme Court lacks proper power to constrain a sovereign judgment the Court's members have sworn an oath to uphold.
I think, however, you have left too vague another part of the question what process may be due to judges and justices who may be accused. I suggest that because the standard of "good behavior," is one established constitutionally, it makes judgment in any such case, at least as a threshold question, a matter for the jointly sovereign People to decide.
It is not properly a question for any official of government to decide. To leave such a question to government officials, including judges, would be an open invitation to partisan political corruption of the process.
Thus, if good behavior is the People's standard, government officials subject to the People's sovereignty, and under oath to obey it, cannot properly say whether or not the People's expectations of good behavior have been satisfied. Tailor process to assist the People to do that themselves. Create legislatively a requirement for a grand jury indictment before a trial on any question of bad behavior can be empowered.
The grand jury is no part of any branch of government. It is a tribune of the People themselves. It's judgment whether or not a question of bad behavior should be tried ought to be final, and deliver adequate protection against partisan abuse.
Also, let Congress pass as part of its regulation package an unappealable requirement that any judge or justice properly indicted on an accusation of bad behavior by a federal grand jury in a district where the judge sits, shall be tried in that district, by a United States attorney from that district, without discretion to decline the prosecution. Once again, no substantive interference in this process by any official of government.
Finally, let the standard of proof in any such trial be at the discretion not of any judge, but at the discretion of the jurors themselves, on a case-by-case basis. That will put all such questions properly within the scope of a sovereign's power to act at pleasure, and without constraint. However novel that seems, it is the final step necessary to keep judicial supremacy from reasserting itself, and corrupting the People's judgment about what kinds of behavior they require from their judges.
Anyone who finds such innovations shocking should be encouraged to reflect on two considerations:
1. The sovereign People enjoy an unfetterable power to constitute government at pleasure, but have no compelling reason to defer to any particular office holder. There is no individual right to hold any office under the United States Constitution. Candidates may enjoy the gift of office, but never a right to hold it.
2. Any judge concerned about arbitrary decisions concerning his or her tenure enjoys a ready means of self-protection. Behave scrupulously. That is the behavior the People require of you. Deliver it, and they will treasure your service, and guard your tenure in office.
By definition, how one behaves cannot be a defense against arbitrariness by others. That's what arbitrariness means.
Hey, remember how you always say that in order to understand a particular law you must understand the substantive thing the law purports to govern? Have you ever considered how ignorant you sound about the actual workings of a legal system when you say things like the quoted language?
Nieporent — My proposal mentioned mandatory prosecution without discretion. I did that because I recognized prosecution decisions normally include discretion. I judged the customary procedure inadequate to serve the particular need to find a source with legitimate power to correct Supreme Court justices who violate ethical constraints imposed by Congress. I welcome your input to explain in detail what you think I misunderstood.
You forgot the necessary & proper clause, which doesn't just apply to Congress's own powers, but to "all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
Believing my comment was quite long enough, I left out far more things than I included. The devil is in the details as they say, and my intent was to spark discussion leading to some of those additional details. Which seems to be happening.
"Article 3 explicitly gives Congress, without limit, "
Not without limit, since it's quite clear that "the" judicial power is given to the judiciary. That means that Congress, whatever else they do, can't give it to anybody outside the judiciary. This came up recently, as a matter of fact.
it’s quite clear that “the” judicial power is given to the judiciary.
It is not. Congress appears in the very first sentence of Article III.
Now, I don’t think that’s dispositive as to what regs on judges are allowed, but I think you're post includes a telling elision of what the Constitution says.
Article III literally begins, "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."
This does not leave any room for even the tiniest smidgen of the judicial power to be vested in anybody outside the judiciary. Yes, Congress can establish parts of the judiciary inferior to the Supreme court, but they will still be in the judicial branch, NOT the executive or legislative.
ALL judicial power, constitutionally, must be vested in such Article III judges.
The point here is that the Constitution does not permit "administrative judges" to exercise any part of the judicial power. The only constitutional judges are Article III judges. Military judges sneak in through a not unreasonable reading of an Article 1 power, as they're exercising, not the judicial power, but the power to regulate the military.
You conflate the Supreme Court and the judiciary.
And the power to create generally contains the power to destroy, from which it’s not hard to hang some specifications on.
And you also read only into the text where it does not appear.
What about making a decision and an Article III judge ratifies it?
Ever bother to read the cases on non Article III judges?
Seriously, Sarcastr0, have you taken a blow to the head in the last few months? Your capacity to parse simple English sentences seems to have declined dramatically lately. I suggest you re-read my second paragraph, this time actually reading the words, if you genuinely think I'm engaged in such conflation.
I read it but it’s not based on the text. You assume what the judicial powers is and you assume an only and you ignore the implications in the power to create.
You also ignore some pretty smart and thoughtful precedents but you have never been one to allow those we hire for the job overcome BrettLaw. Or even learn most of them.
Bellmore — Administration of ethical codes imposed by law on government officials is not part of the judicial power at all. It is part of the administrative power. Of course administrative judges can be empowered by law to perform that administrative function.
Nobody is suggesting an administrative judge has power to decide whether a judge or justice goes to prison—which would be an exercise of the judicial power. If the intent were to punish Supreme Court bribery with imprisonment, then that would require the usual Article III process to accomplish.
To decide whether a judge or justice meets the standard of, "good behavior," is an obvious example of an administrative question—so obvious that your own separation of powers reasoning ought to deny the judicial system any role in making or reviewing that decision.
Brett, you really should try to make a habit of reading at least the full sentence you base an objection on. My “without limit” didn’t address “ALL judicial power” at all, but only
So, this doesn’t give Congress the right to itself determine the outcome of a court proceeding, or force SCOTUS to reverse a previous opinion. But
does mean Congress can block SCOTUS from even docketing any appellate judicial proceeding, by denying jurisdiction.
Clear?
Congress can only affect inferior courts, nothing grants them authority over the Supreme Court and by that measure no member of an inferior court can hold sway over them.
5×63,
So, Article 3 explicitly gives Congress, without limit, the authority to “ordain and establish” the framework, rules, and practices of the federal judiciary system, including SCOTUS while they are exercising “appellate Jurisdiction” (that is, other than formally appointed representatives of other countries, and when U.S. States are a party) “…with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.”
Why does that seem so hard to understand?
The Constitution already provides a means of dealing with Supreme Court justices who violate ethics.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
....
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Having a lower court pass judgment on the official acts of Supreme Court justices threatens the independence of the Supreme Court. This is the only check and balances.
Ejercito — The notion of independence for the Supreme Court is not an objective to be sought, it is the problem to be addressed. Judicial supremacy is not a proper part of American constitutionalism. To suppose that it is, is to conflate the notion of separation of powers with the completely unrelated notion of the jointly sovereign People’s proper power to control their government.
Unfortunately, experience has taught that the impeachment process—with its super-majority requirements—is no longer an efficient protection against partisan political motivations to corrupt the courts. Partisan minorities in Congress will always enjoy power sufficient to cripple the impeachment process.
Factionalists have noticed that, and used it to strengthen unaccountable power for the Court, on the basis of far less political power than majorities must muster to counter them. Political partisans on the Court have responded in kind, to reward their factionalist supporters in Congress.
Thus one minority-protective feature in American constitutionalism gets used improperly to multiply the leverage of another minority-protective feature. Actual overthrow of any notion of majority rule has been the result. That was never intended except by opportunists acting in bad faith, but here it is. It is a fundamental political problem the nation must now innovate its way out of. There is no sign it will go away on its own.
An unusual idea, but I'm not sure anything better is available.
If this was the 1960s, Clarence Thomas would have long since either resigned or been impeached and removed over his bribery scandals.
But that mechanism is clearly broken -- these days, all that matters is which party appointed a justice and whether that same party has enough votes in Congress to prevent impeachment/conviction.
In normal countries judges police each other's ethics. (I.e. judges at the same level.)
You're free to move to one
In normal countries judges haven't become permanent committees of constitutional revision in order to circumvent the formal process for constitutional amendment, so judges aren't so politicized. They're just being judges. They CAN be just judges, because other countries have constitutions that genuinely authorize the sort of powers their governments are exercising. And this implies that the stakes of regulating their ethics are considerably lower.
Back in the early 20th century there started to be an international fad for the sort of intrusive federal government our Constitution deliberately did NOT authorize, and despite the passage of, say, the 16th amendment, the odds of the states ratifying an amendment giving Congress and the Presidency the sort of power they desperately wanted to exercise were not good.
So they settled on suborning the courts, to get the existing constitution 'interpreted' as though it had already authorized the vastly expanded jurisdiction they wanted to exercise. Reinterpreting the interstate commerce clause as though it said, "To regulate", and nothing more, for instance.
This made the composition of the judiciary, especially the Supreme court, vastly more important than it had formerly been. On a lot of topics, control of the Court is the whole game, and control of the elected branches is just a means to achieve it. I bet that those elected officials didn't realize that was a consequence of transforming the Court into a rubber stamp for their usurpations of power: That control over the rubber stamp would eventually become more important than control over drafting what got stamped...
But that's where we are now, and the obsession about 'ethics' is really just another front in the battle to control whose hands wield that rubber stamp.
I only see two ways of returning the Court to being just a court. Either accept complying with the terms of the Constitution honestly interpreted, or amend the Constitution to honestly authorize the scale of intrusive government we have now. Either would render the composition of the Court less critical.
In the 1960's we still Executed Rape-ists, you could smoke on Airplanes, Restaurants, at Wrigley Field, Yankee Stadium, (it's easier to list the places you couldn't smoke lets see, School (HT Brownsville Station) Drafted peoples into the Military, had 2 Pro Foo-bawl leagues with only a few teams making the Playoffs, MLB had NO playoffs, with that crazy notion that the best team from each league should meet in the World's Serious,
and you want to go back, just to impeach Clarence "Frogman" Thomas
I'd like to go back just to be able to get LSD when it was still legal (want a laugh, watch that "Blue Boy" Dragnet Episode)
Frank
Until I quit smoking last year, I REALLY missed being able to smoke on airplanes.
It would be nice for LSD to be easier to get (I only get to trip every few years now).
But no, I wouldn't want to go back to the 1960s just to impeach Thomas. The ability of SCOTUS justices to skate after being caught accepting bribes is just a symptom of general decline.
" She punches through walls."
And this will stop being fun when the lower4 court judge pink slips her to the psych ward.
Or she finds a stud. 😉