The Volokh Conspiracy
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Hamas's Savagery on October 7: Guest Post by Adam Mossoff
On Day 3 (July 11) of the law professor mission to Israel, we had the opportunity to watch the 45-minute film of the Hamas atrocities on October 7 that was created primarily from the GoPro cameras worn by the Hamas soldiers, but also includes footage from security cameras and CCTV. During the attacks, the Hamas soldiers uploaded their GoPro videos to the internet and blasted them out on social media to hundreds of thousands of Israelis' social media accounts on October 7. The IDF spokesperson unit spent two days taking thousands upon thousands of these videos down from the internet.
I will not describe or detail any of the film's horrors, and so you can read this post knowing that you will not be ambushed with a nightmare that will haunt you for the rest of your days. I will say the film is horrific. In fact, it's beyond horrific. But if one is to bear witness to evil so that one can better defend the good (Israel) and speak out against evil (genocidal antisemitism and supporters of this nihilism in the West), one must know the evil of which one speaks. Thus, I considered it important for me to see the film, but given the shocking and sickening content of this film, I don't begrudge anyone not watching it.
Here's some background context and general information about the film: The IDF created this film in November 2023 given worldwide denials of the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7. Similar to the Holocaust denials that began in 1945 and continue to this day, the denial of the vile atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7 began on October 8 and continue to this day. It's not just denial of murders of children and babies and other war crimes as "Israeli propaganda." There's also the denial of the rape and sexual violence committed by Hamas soldiers on October 7, which has prompted Sheryl Sandberg to create her first documentary as her own act of bearing witness to October 7. It's called, "Screams Before Silence," and if you have not yet seen it, I recommend doing so (https://www.screamsbeforesilence.com/).
Given its content, the film is closely controlled by the IDF. I already knew this from an opportunity I had last November to see it, which I declined at the time. One can only see the film through an application, a special invitation, or to be invited to a showing for specific audiences, such as political leaders or media industry representatives who have been invited to watch it. We saw it last week given that we were in Israel as a fact-finding mission about October 7. Before we saw it, we had to sign a special agreement not to share any images nor specific details that could be traced back to specific victims. We were also prohibited from having any electronic devices in the room and we had to store our phones in special lockers outside the room.
We later learned that not even all of the IDF spokespeople have seen it, as it has a security clearance rating of "need to know." It appears that the primary reason for this extreme restriction on the film is the observance of the religious rules in Judaism and social norms in Israel about respecting the dignity of the deceased, which I described in my last post about October 7 and how Hamas deliberately sought to violate these rules and norms through explicit acts of desecration and destruction of its victims on October 7. Among those of us on the mission who were speaking with the IDF spokespeople about this, we were of one mind in telling them that Israel would be best served by releasing the film without restrictions, like documentaries about the Holocaust like "Night and Fog" that contain Nazi films of pits filled with bodies, as well as other scenes of body parts or death. Israel is in an existential war on multiple fronts right now, and in such emergency conditions, regular rules or norms that apply during normal life should be relaxed to accommodate the exigent circumstances.
As I mentioned, I won't describe anything I saw in the film, but I would still like to share a few general observations about it. First, the pure glee expressed by the Hamas soldiers. Throughout the film, the Hamas soldiers are constantly shouting expressions of joy and excitement in what they are doing to their victims. They are not torturing or murdering out of necessity, nor is this the work of soldiers who are merely defending territory from an invasion. It was very clear from the first few moments of the film that they took pleasure in what they did. They celebrated it – during and after October 7. Many of us have seen the videos shared on the internet of civilians in Gaza who rushed to the trucks or SUVs to take pictures and beat the dead bodies or living hostages, shouting with glee and celebration. The Hamas soldiers were equally effusive and jubilant about the ghastly atrocities they deliberately committed on October 7 – and they proudly broadcast this by creating and sharing their GoPro videos with the whole world.
Second, the film of the GoPro videos makes it very clear that Hamas is a theocratic authoritarian regime in Gaza, not merely a dictatorship or a freestanding terrorist organization like Hezbollah or the Houthis. The Hamas soldiers expressed their glee and joy by constantly proclaiming "Glory to God!" ("Allah Ackbar!). One hears this more times than I could count, although I was frozen by the horrors of what I was witnessing and so I was not capable of counting at the time. Hamas is an authoritarian Islamic theocracy that rules over Gaza (it was elected into power when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2006 and then it took). Thus, Hamas is like Iran, the Taliban (Afghanistan), the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt from 2011-2013, and ISIS in Syria and Iraq from 2014-2019. There have been non-ideological dictatorships in the Middle East, such as Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Bashar Al-Assad in Syria, but that is not Hamas.
This is important to understand and fully appreciate: October 7 was not about any grievances over land or alleged abuses by the Israeli government over the Palestinians. Hamas seeks the genocidal destruction of both Jews and Israel, just as its financial and military Iran, which is reported to have had a direct role in the planning and approval of the October 7 atrocities. This explains more than anything the atrocities and war crimes of October 7. Hamas is dedicated to the genocidal evil of the death of all Jews and the destruction of all of Israel.
Third, and last, the Palestinian culture considers dogs to be disgusting filth, and this is conveyed in the film as well. I had previously read articles and seen a few videos about how the many stray dogs in Gaza are viewed as nuisances and pests, and that Palestinians regularly kill or torture these dogs. They kill or torture dogs because they view dogs as not even befitting any respect for life. One does not have to be a "dog person" like I am to think this is deeply disturbing. There is valid reason for the famous dictum that dogs are "man's best friend."
I say this because the Palestinian's horrible view of dogs is on full display in the film of the GoPro videos made by the Hamas soldiers. The most common insult one hears in the film, it is a refrain that is second only to the shouts of "Allah Ackbar," is the one that the Hamas soldiers constantly scream at the Jews they are shooting and slaughtering: "You are dogs!"
It is a well-known fact in human history that people who commit mass murder explicitly dehumanize the people they are killing. The Nazis did this, for example, by labeling Jews as rats, vermin, and as a subspecies separate from Aryan humans. Hamas now does it by labeling Jews as dogs, which may seem strange to someone in the West who is unaware of the rat-like status that dogs apparently have in Palestinian culture. (Another example of this is found in this video (https://x.com/LizaRosen0000/status/1811955884966203632…) of an interview with an old Palestinian woman who says, "Jews are dogs.")
For all these reasons, the film is especially horrific and searing psychologically and emotionally. Hamas sent 3000 soldiers to invade Israel for the purpose of murder, torture, rape, and kidnapping of innocent people (about 1,450 babies, children, and adults). This fact is bad enough by itself, but these soldiers did not commit their war crimes dispassionately or out of a sense of military duty. They committed their atrocities willingly, happily, and with effusive expressions of glory. The film is a window into a human capacity for evil that I knew only in the abstract from my historical study of the Holocaust or the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge, but, based on what I know, the Nazi or Khmer Rouge soldiers did not revel in and enthusiastically celebrate their murders and atrocities. The Hamas soldiers did.
When the film concluded, I was in psychological shock. I had been and continued to cry. My hands were shaking, and I felt almost physically numb. I also felt a sense of detachment from my body and my surroundings. I still vividly remember holding my right hand out flat in front of me and watching it tremble and shake, as if I had just over-exerted myself in a workout at the gym, despite my having sat still in an air-conditioned room for the past hour. After a break, we met with IDF lawyers and then continued the mission with lunch and more meetings with lawyers from NGOs and others, but it took me several hours to recover from the shock.
This was all a week ago, and the shock has long since worn off, but that film will be with me for the rest of my life. I hope that I can now use my writing and speaking skills as a professor and advocate to help in my own way by speaking truth to the vicious lies and propaganda of the pro-Hamas activists in the U.S. and the West. Let no one be mistaken what the slogans "from the river to the sea" and "intifada" truly mean, and what the flags of Hamas and Hezbollah that are now regularly flown at the protests in the U.S. and Europe mean. These all represent a pure and unadulterated nihilism that many of us in the West have a hard time fully understanding. This is not just antisemitism, and will not end with Jews or Israel. I hope the U.S. wakes up to this fact before its continuing appeasement of Iran results in Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon, because after watching the film of the October 7 atrocities, I think I know what will happen when it does.
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I think it was Eisenhower who marched his troops through the liberated death camps "so no one can say this didn't happen."
Same premise for why we keep showing footage of the capitol riots and prosecuting coup plotters
Did I miss the footage of the stacked bodies in the Capitol?
Such Bull shit, where's the "Footage" (it's a film term, is anything shot on actual film anymore?) of Ashli Babbit's execution by that piece of shit Michael Bird?
Frank
You mean the footage that the Democrats opposed releasing? The footage that showed police opening doors and escorting the protesters around the Capitol? That footage?
Yup....really stacking the bodies 6 feet deep here. Mega Ultra Civil War 2.0 Armageddon. Democracy on the brink. See the undeniable truth for yourself.
https://youtu.be/g0FHVB9LHoE?feature=shared&t=5
As well as footage of the riots in Minneapolis, Portland, and Kenosha.
And the riot at the White House.
Man, does your computer lack the Google Button? it was Patton not Eisenhower, and he marched German Civilians not American Soldiers through Buchenwald April 16, 1945. You totally fuck up a fact from 80 years ago and we’re supposed to believe the Bible is accurate?
Frank
Frank, it was Eisenhower, and you really ought to try Googling things yourself.
Here's a link for you. https://newspapers.ushmm.org/events/eisenhower-asks-congress-and-press-to-witness-nazi-horrors
The Buchenwald Concentration Camp: Patton’s Bastardly Discovery
It was both.
True. Patton ordered about 1000 Germans to tour Buchenwald, and Eisenhower invited members of Congress and American journalists to tour the camps.
Patton was a hardcore antisemite who treated DPs miserably.
Yes. And he also ordered that German civilians tour Buchenwald. People are complicated.
Hamas doing horrible horrible things doesn't mean how it was addressed isn't counterproductive, placing seeds for future horrors in revenge. Lots of people concerned about the response are not some "Hamas fifth columnist" group or something. To be clear.
I agree that Israel has not made great decisions in reaction, which has compounded things in a tragic way for all involved.
I’m still not going to argue with making a record of it.
The only bad decision Israel made was hesitating to accommodate that puke Biden.
The modern American right – where the violent Jew-haters, and the violent Muslim-haters can join common cause in hating Democrats.
I'm a Jew and a member of the "Right" (actually I'm Lefthanded), biggest Supporters of Jews today are the Jesus Freaks. I should be happy Menendez got the heave ho but he'll probably be released with some Khalid Sheik Moe-hammed follower
Frank
The only jew-haters are on the left. As the Hamas campus protesters and congressional democrats have shown. antisemitism is the province of democrats. Come to think of it, the Nazis (national socialists) were also on the left.
The only jew-haters are on the left
Roger S and JesusWasABlondeOrWhatever post here a lot, Riva. What does it say you care this little about obvious truths?
Hey-Zeus is a Jew-hater? Well He's got His reasons.
No idea what you're ranting about, as usual Sarcastr0. If you want to respond to what I wrote, feel free. If you want to respond to another commenter, click on their "reply" button.
You said “The only jew-haters are on the left”. Sarcastr0 is noting that there are “jew-haters” on this very site who are decidedly not on the left.
Hope this helps!
Nope, that was his original tantrum, and what you’re noting is a logical fallacy (I’d define it for you but better you look it up yourself so you can learn). Sacrastr0 is a big communist boy now, he can answer for his own rants. And in the future, try not to be clever, it’s not a good look for you. I know, I’ve read your other comments.
Hope this helps!
The only jew-haters are on the left.
Wake up, Riva, and smell the coffee. The people chanting "The Jews will not replace us" are not philosemitic. Nor is Nick Fuentes, who seems to enjoy quite an audience on the right, to the extent of having dinner with Trump.
And if you don't understand that Christian nationalism is inherently antisemitic you're an idiot.
Come to think of it, you're an idiot regardless.
The strange thing about Christian Nationalism is that they think they're the "Real" Jews and the current "Jews" are the fake ones.
I thought that was the Black Hebrew Israelites.
Maybe, I don't keep up with all the H8ers, would be Ironic (Dontcha Think?) if the Aryan Nation types and the Black Hebrews end up in the same section of Hell (I know it's made up superstition (I sure hope it is, for my sake) Always loved how the White Surpremercists would root for the A-rabs, which in military matters is like rooting for the Washington Generals.
Frank
I don't blame you for forgetting them. I keep having to remind myself they're not a brand of sausage.
I have no idea WTF you’re talking about, Bernie, but the democrats and their activist supporters proudly display their hatred of Jews and Israel daily. And I suspect that if the democrats actually hold a convention (who knows? they’ve already decided to override the primary results already, so much for “democracy”), the mass of whatever shows up there will make the Hamas supporting refuse on campuses look reasonable.
Are you sure it isn't "YOU will not replace us."
It was mostly, but not exclusively, "you".
It's silly to pretend that you don't find antisemitism at SOME level across the entire political spectrum.
But it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that it isn't mostly on public display on the left. Those pro-Hamas demonstrations at college campuses haven't been right-wing; If they had been right wing the college administrations would have been much more proactive about stomping them.
Who are "the violent Muslim-haters" you are alluding to, and which Muslims, members of the Muslim Brotherhood and various Islamist groups?
I’m fine with making a record of it but some of the recent posts have been a tad one-sided. So, I just wanted to put that out there.
So, again, reference is made to groups "supporting Hamas in general." Do such groups exist? Not denying it.
Is that ALL the protests are about? No. It's misleading and one-sided to say so. I don't think it is overall the best approach to provide a one-sided view of things here when trying to clarify to the public why Israel is doing the right thing.
Instead, it comes off as one-sided special pleading and makes everyone besides true believers likely to be wary (rightly so) of what the person is saying.
If you attending protests sponsored and organized by groups that support Hamas, you are *at the very least* sending the message that their support for Hamas is not sufficient to disqualify them as allies. If one wouldn't attend a rally sponsored by white supremacists or neo-Nazis, no matter the cause, the same logic should apply to rallies sponsored by Hamas supporters.
What's the point of this fine-tuning?
I already said that there are people who can be validly labeled as pro-Hamas protesting Israel.
What does this add to the conversation?
There still are many who are not pro-Hamas & including those who don't join rallies backed by pro-Hamas groups.
As with those labeled communists for joining some group in some fashion connected to communists, some college students or something very well might not know the links.
You are "sending a message" too by this one-note stuff including your changing comments about "so-called" journalists killed.
"are not some “Hamas fifth columnist” group"
Joe,
They are deluded "useful idiots." However, even that recognition is not helpful. The question remains "what is the future? I'm afraid any "two-state solution" has not practical realization except for "occupation" by an extra-territorial entity.
The Palestinians declined tow previous offers for statehood. History has not stood still since then
We can start by acknowledging the fact that the groups that have organized the protests against Israel, Most prominently students for justice in Palestine, Are not protesting, Israel’s actions, per se, but are supporting Hamas in general, and the atrocities of October 7 in particular. National SJP was out with a statement supporting Hamas on October 7 itself, and various affiliates, including at my university, Statement supporting 10/7 Within two or three days.
I think that most of the support has been blind (rather than willful and with knowledge of the facts). That’s not an excuse…merely an explanation. It is a pity that these anti-Israel (or, pro-Palestine, if you prefer) protesters at American universities are not given the opportunity to watch this film in its entirety. And then, have a town hall, where they are given the chance to explain if seeing Hamas’s actual actions on that date has changed the protesters’ minds re Israel or not. And, if not, why not?
At the very least, it would be an educational experience.
In fact, as universities dole out punishments for rule-breaking during the protests and/or encampments, perhaps watching this film would be required viewing for protestors before consideration of possible reinstatement.
[Disclosure: I have seen about 7 minutes of this film. (Although in a more unedited version.) It’s about 5 minutes more than I wanted to see. Images that will also stay with me for life. What struck me most was not the actual violence. It was the animals rejoicing and celebrating their violence. Thirty-plus years ago, during the Los Angeles riots, an innocent white truck driver was savagely beaten by 4 black thugs, solely due to the color of his skin. It was the celebration after the fact that was so horrific to me . . . 3 decades later, the rage and horror still wells up in me, when I think about the animal instincts of harming a human who has done nothing against you and taking such great joy at your own brutality. Actually, that’s totally unfair to animals. Animals don’t take joy from attacking or killing prey. What term can I use that is lower and worse than “animals?” ]
You're surprised Animals act like Animals?
Fast Frankie Tip, Don't go to Sea World
" It is a pity that these anti-Israel (or, pro-Palestine, if you prefer) protesters at American universities are not given the opportunity to watch this film in its entirety."
The sad thing is that these savages would be cheering it.
Remember when ISIS was putting footage of its beheadings on the internet as a (successful) recruiting effort? This would do the same thing.
So enlightening. Exactly what should have been done beyond lay their necks out for execution to satisfy your one-sided aprobation?
Unless you're Joe Finkelstein from the Bronx it's not your fight, stick to rolling Homos
Frank
I think addressing it by killing as many of the perpetrators as possible is productive.
THEY certainly won't be doing it again.
So Israel and Jews should just lay over and die? Is that the idea?
You are right, all those pearl-clutchers, disingenuous grandstanders and pseudo-humanists aren't all Hamas supporters per se. However, all of them are misguided, most of them are antisemitic, and "just" some of them are avowed supporters of anti-Jewish terror.
So Israel and Jews should just lay over and die? Is that the idea?
No. This again is an example of "so ..." followed by an erroneous summary of "so what you are saying."
I think you missed one of the essential points in the OP:
"October 7 was not about any grievances over land or alleged abuses by the Israeli government over the Palestinians. Hamas seeks the genocidal destruction of both Jews and Israel,"
They don't need any excuse or "seeds" for future horrors - they are hell bent on genocide, and will do it again and again (their words) - if they are able - regardless of the Israeli response
This doesn't refute my point.
Whatever their motives, how people respond to horrible things can make the situation worse.
If people disagree on the merits here, fine, but lots of people are not "pro-Hamas" for fearing otherwise.
They said they would repeat October 7 1000 more times, and they said this before any major Israeli response.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-771199
How do you think the situation will get worse? That they will REALLY REALLY become hell bent on genocide?
The people who "are not “pro-Hamas”" but "fear[ing] otherwise." are , like you, sitting in the Bronx, without any grasp of the reality of Hamas and its supporters, which are the vast majority of Palestinians.
The way it will get worse is that Israel will lose the support of many around the world. You are correct that it doesn't affect the attitude of Hamas, who are getting the exact response they wanted, large numbers of Palestinian civilian deaths.
the post I was responding to claimed the Israeli response was "placing seeds for future horrors in revenge" - so it was clearly about Hamas' response (unless you think those around the world who are currently supporting Israel will be exacting "future horrors" on it, as revenge, which I find unlikely)
What support do you imagine Israel has now, other than from the US?
If I sat in some other region of the U.S., would it be different?
Also, “so it was clearly about Hamas’ response” shows trying to assume what people mean is open to difficulties.
The “future horrors” can be done by non-Hamas groups too. Hamas isn’t the only group that responds to harsh tactics [including harm and death to non-combatants] by horrible revenge.
This is a general theme that applies to responses worldwide.
What seeds for what future horrors?
JoeFromTheBronx
Some of us still remember the demonstrations against Israel and in favor of Hamas before any Israeli reaction had occurred, and while the slaughter was still going on. To my mind, that puts paid to any claim that the concern on your side is with how Israel is responding, rather than that you are siding with Hamas in favor of slaughtering Jews.
If I'm wrong, please do explain to me how Israel should respond, in order to meet your fine ethical standards and also ensure that Hamas and its fellow travelers can never do October 7 again.
You see, unlike you, I've got to look at my children and wonder if they'll be on the receiving end of some future slaughter. I don't have the luxury of demanding that someone else put their loved ones in danger for the sake of my precious feelings.
I have no special advice on "how you should respond."
How Israel has responded to attacks has been the subject of a great amount of debate, including many Israelis over the years arguing that the responses were counterproductive in various instances.
These resident critics are quite aware of what is happening in Israel since many live there or have family who live there.
I notice that you failed to comment at all on the widespread celebrations of October 7, and protests against the existence of Israel, that your side put on as the slaughters were still going on. I take it you concede that this is strong evidence that the anti-Israel forces are motivated, largely and perhaps solely, by genocidal hatred of Jews.
Yes, I live in Israel. My family–my wife and my children–live in Israel. And I can attest that the Israeli response to the Arab war of genocide has been remarkable for its restraint, both before and after October 7.
Quite frankly, if Israel were to fight without restraint, the so-called Palestinian Arabs would have ceased to exist long ago.
Now, if you have no idea how we could better meet your “fine ethical standards,” but are sure that we should be doing something different, then I feel that I am on solid ground dismissing you as someone that just wants to condemn us. Why do you want to condemn the victims of actual and attempted genocide?
Because you’re on Hamas’ side, obviously. Like them, you want us dead.
We will not oblige.
Bravo!
We need Israel on that wall.
Some people — uneducated, bigoted, religious right-wingers, for example — want Israel to continue its current course. other people want America to stop subsidizing Israel’s theocratic, war-crimes right- wing belligerents. Let’s see who wins the modern American culture war and calls that shot.
And I notice that you failed to respond to his point that many Israelis themselves are critical of their government's response. And since nothing he wrote can reasonably be construed as supporting Hamas, your assertion that it does weakens whatever point you think you are making.
And just in case there is any doubt in your mind, I believe Hamas is a jihadist death cult and all its leaders deserve to be hunted down and killed.
I believe Hamas is a jihadist death cult and all its leaders deserve to be hunted down and killed.
And how exactly do you think that will be done, in a way that is markedly different from what Israel is currently doing?
I'm not really sure, which is why I'm not criticizing Israel's actions. But many others are, and many of them know much more than me, and their criticism doesn't automatically make them Hamas supporters.
Alpheus W Drinkwater.
Sure there are Israelis critical the government's response. I'm one of them. I am of the view that endangering Jewish lives, including the lives of our soldiers, in order to safeguard the lives of enemy civilians is wrong and unacceptable. I decry and criticize the government's insistence on setting the well-being of the enemy as a war goal.
It's one thing for people who live here and who must bear the consequences of whatever decisions are made to criticize the government's decisions. It's something else for people that live elsewhere and will bear no burden of consequence to stick their oars in and sit in judgement over our policies, matters that impact our lives and, G-d forbid, our deaths.
Further, if those foreigners would at least provide some guidance of what would be acceptable to them, demonstrate knowledge of the issues and conundrums we face, then I could bear to listen to them.
But they don't do that. They just condemn anything we do, literally anything at all, to protect our lives and the lives of our children. And when we ask "Well, what would you have us do?", there is no answer. There is never an answer.
May we set up a wall to block the terrorists? No. May we deny the enemy war materials to use against us? No. May we fight them in the the streets? No. May we respond in any way whatsoever to months and years of every form of attack? Certainly not.
So I understand that they are our enemies, and I condemn them as such.
Are you going to move your family to a safe location (I recommend the United States), are you working to move Israeli far and quickly from its current course of war-criming right-wing belligerence, bigotry, and superstition, or are you one of the right-wing theocratic jerks who will go down with the ship?
Are you a "settler"?
I have no special advice on “how you should respond.”
then maybe you should just STFU instead of "tsk, tsk"ing from the peanut gallery
Logically, not having a good answer to "how you should respond" doesn't mean he can't have a good answer to "how you shouldn't respond". There are plenty of domestic and international laws which outline the latter, after all.
ObviouslyNotSpam, nonsense. There is no law which trumps the law of survival. We must survive and we will do whatever we need to do in order to survive. Any laws that purport to prevent us from doing what we must do to survive are null and void.
Thank you for reminding us that the anti-Israel (pro Hamas) protests began on October 8 and persisted during the weeks before Israel decided on the means and methods of its response.
The word "existential" is bandied by many commenters here and in the press regarding American electoral politics. That is gross hyperbole.
In contrast Israelis know a real existential threat every day.
Your government is doing what must be done.
If it were up to me, the Israeli response would have been far more decisive, and far earlier. But I certainly support the war against the would-be murderers of my children. As for the suffering of Arab civilians...well, if they didn't want a war, they should not have chosen war. Over and over. And over. For a hundred years.
The wife of my rabbi when I was a kid was Israeli, and she told us in Hebrew School not to be worried about the treatment of Arabs, that they are sub-human. You remind me of her.
I don’t say that they are sub-human. They are certainly human. Unfortunately, they choose to be our enemies.
We have tried, again and again, to have peaceful and neighborly relations with them. We are still prepared to have peaceful and neighborly relations with them.
But can we help it if they choose to hate us like bitter poison and teach their children that the best thing they can do in life is to kill us?
We cannot. All we can do is accept that reality is what it is, and deal with reality as it is. You have the luxury (for now, at least) of living in a world of fantasy. We do not.
And reality is this: the war exists because the Arabs, as a society, have chosen war. And, like the people of Germany and Japan when they chose imperialistic and genocidal war, they must bear the consequences of that choice.
You live in a war zone. You think exactly like someone in a war zone. If I'm ever trapped in a war zone, I may come to think like you, too.
I hope that never happens.
I hope that one day we will have peace. I look forward to a future in which neither the Arabs nor the non-Arab Muslims are our enemies. For now, reality is what it is, and nothing–not public opinion, not international law, nothing at all–takes priority over preventing the murder of Jews.
Do you support the terrorist settlers in the West Bank, Smotrich, Likud, Netanyahu, Haredi, etc. or are you someone whose opinions better Americans should care about?
No comment, cowardly clinger?
"This is not just antisemitism, and will not end with Jews or Israel."
EXACTLY!
A lot of idiots are in denial about that. They’re quite explicit that it’s supposed to be world wide, and everybody but Muslims. And maybe a lot of Muslims, too.
Even a lot of the protest-riots here had people raving about “Turtle Island”. Which is the North American version of calling Israel “Occupied Palestine”.
Mike Johnson says he will ARREST anyone disrupting Bibi N's address to Congress. He can. Should be interesting.
https://freebeacon.com/israel/mike-johnson-vows-to-arrest-congressional-officials-who-disrupt-netanyahus-floor-speech/
It seems Johnson has more fealty to a foreign power than to America, otherwise he'd do the same to his caucus' brats when our president addresses Congress
We have a President?
Don't worry - nothing Ed's commented 'could be interesting' about has ever actually occurred, much less been interesting.
I don't think he can have actual congressmen arrested, but he can have them removed and then face sanctions, including expulsion.
Staff, most certainly he can have arrested.
The practical difference between being "arrested", and being forcibly removed and facing sanctions, escapes me.
"Being arrested" typically leads to things like cooling off in jail, getting mug shots taken, and typically charges, a trial, maybe prison time. "Being forcibly removed" does not lead to these things.
Because fake arrests worked out so well last time?
(HT D. Worley)
They took all the footage off my TV,
Said it’s too disturbing for you and me
It’ll just breed anger, that’s what the experts say
If it was up to me I’d show it everyday
Some say Israel’s just looking for a fight,
after 10-7, I’d have to say that’s right.
Frank
Sounds terrible. I understand why people are furious. Here's another interesting article regarding human suffering in the area:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/19/gaza-hospitals-surgeons-00167697
I wonder what EV thinks about firing for offensive private utterances the professional employees of media organizations? Seems to me that in this context those ought to be in a less-protected status than shelf-stocking wage slaves working in non-expressive commercial settings. I take that view because I think media organizations have an elevated interest in the public perception of the credibility of their employees.
Note that I recognize that Elon Musk might differ from a senior manager at MSNBC on the question of what views offend. I think both classes of supervisors need power to enforce whatever expressive values identify their own organizations in the public eye.
Once again, I have to agree with you, SL.
Let's take a moment to think of the commenters whose immediate reaction to the Hamas attack was to criticize and blame Israel, based on comments here on the 8th and 9th: Sarcastr0, Krychek, Martinned2, Randal, Rev. Kirkland, Aunt Teefah (now posting under a different account IIRC), Nige, Idhax, Seamus, and Loki13.
Krychek, Nige, Martinned, and Loki were kind enough to express disapproval of Hamas's horror show. Randal wanted Israel to immediately surrender Jerusalem to Palestine. Idhax said Hamas's acts were the wrath of God upon Israel. Aunt Teefah claimed Hamas's attack was completely just.
Just a reminder that the MAGA trolls are not the only trolls here.
Either you remember incorrectly or you are a lying, partisan, right-wing clinger. Maybe both.
Are you also afflicted by adult-onset superstition?
Patton was a hardcore antisemite who treated DPs miserably.
Arthur, I'm disappointed in your muted comment. I thought this thread would have brought forth your full-throated antisemitic ranting about the need for the Israelis to capitulate to the Palestinians and decamp for West Texas.
The cheeseburger will be my treat at the appropriate time. Carry on, clinger . . . so long as better Americans permit.
I mean, anyone to the right of Chomsky is in the right wing in your eyes because you're a lunatic. Frankly if I hadn't seen your old stuff in the volokh.com and WaPo days, I'd think you were a parody designed to make liberals look like obsessive morons. As it is, you do make liberals look like obsessive morons, but in a genuine way.
Anyway, anyone is free to check the comments from those days. They aren't behind a paywall or anything. I didn't work from memory.
What did I write about Hamas, you lying asshole?
Ah, your mental deterioration has reached the point where you've lost reading comprehension. You should talk to a medical professional.
When it comes to scum like Rev Arthur Kirkland, remember--the mute button is your friend.
Tick, tock. Tick, tock. Then, accountability.
A decent man would not expect his family to suffer existentially for his silly superstition, old-timey bigotry, selfishness, and wingnuttery.
Are you threatening his family? That's over the top, even for the VC. How do you even know his family?
Instead of dodging, Arthur, why don't you just direct yourself to the OP's subject matter, that being Hamas' unbounded 10/7 atrocities.
Hamas is disgusting. Nothing would justify its conduct with respect to attacking Israelis in October. Anyone with a functioning moral compass should recognize that.
Let’s test your compass. What do you make of Israel’s right-wing, bigoted, theocratic war-crimers?
The root of denialism is cowardice. By denying the horrific event, one need not voice support for nor denounce such atrocities.