The Volokh Conspiracy
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Can an Amicus Ask the Supreme Court to Overrule a Case Where the Parties Don't?
The ACLU successfully asked the Court to reverse Wolf v. Colorado in Mapp v. Ohio.
All law students study Mapp v. Ohio (1961). In this landmark case, the Supreme Court held that the exclusionary rule should be applied to state criminal prosecutions. In other words, evidence seized in violation of the Fourth Amendment could not be admitted in Court. Previously, in Wolf v. Colorado (1949), the Supreme Court declined to "incorporate" the exclusionary rule. (Incorporation is not exactly the right term here, but it is close enough.) Rather, Wolf held, the exclusionary rule would only be enforced with regard to federal criminal prosecutions as part of the Supreme Court's "supervisory power" of the lower courts.
In the lower courts, Mapp was litigated as a First Amendment case. Dollree Map was arrested for possessing certain obscene materials. Indeed, the oral arguments focused extensively on the First Amendment issues. It was not litigated as a Fourth Amendment case.
Mapp's counsel did not ask the Supreme Court to overrule Wolf. Justice Frankfurter pointed out that the counsel for Mapp did not even mention Wolf in their brief.
Felix Frankfurter: Are asking us to overrule the Wolf case in this Court? I notice it isn't even cited in your brief.
The Ohio Supreme Court didn't even mention the issues!
Felix Frankfurter: Well, as I understand it, when dealing with an Ohio case, what the court decides is authoritatively expressed only in the syllabi, but I can go to the opinion to find out, perhaps to get some light on what the syllabi means. . . . So far as I can make out in reading Ohio State, 170 Ohio State, that matter wasn't adverted to in the opinion, and certainly not in the syllabi. That's right, isn't it?
And Justice Harlan explained that the only issue before the Court was the First Amendment question:
John M. Harlan II: Well, that's the only question we've got here, as to whether the statute's constitutional or not constitutional, isn't it?
Harlan asked Mapp's lawyer point blank if they were asking the Court to overrule Wolf. The lawyer said no.
John M. Harlan II: Well, that means you're asking us to overrule Wolf against Colorado?
A. L. Kearns: No, I don't believe we are.
So who asked for Wolf to be overruled? The ACLU arguing as amicus.
Bernard A. Berkman: Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the Court. Before I get into the area which was allotted to me, I would like to say that the American Civil Liberties Union and its Ohio Affiliate, the Ohio Civil Liberties Union, is very clear, in response to the question which was directed to counsel for the appellant, that we are asking this Court to reconsider Wolf versus Colorado and to find that evidence which is unlawfully and illegally obtained should not be permitted into a state proceeding, and that its production is a violation of the Federal Constitution, the Fourth Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendment. We have no hesitancy about asking the Court to reconsider it because we think that it is a necessary part of due process.
Justice Stewart inquired if the ACLU was asking the Court to overrule Wolf. The lawyer for the ACLU contended that its interest did not line up with that of Dollree Map, but it didn't matter.
Potter Stewart: Are you asking us to re-examine Wolf, or are you relying on Rochin against California?
Bernard A. Berkman: We are asking the Court to re-examine Wolf. Our interest is not necessarily the same as that of the defendant who was convicted in this case, and our claim is more broad than that, Mr. Justice Stewart.
And the Supreme Court did exactly what the ACLU as amicus asked for. The Court overruled Wolf. Footnote 3 of the majority opinion states:
Other issues have been raised on this appeal but, in the view we have taken of the case, they need not be decided. Although appellant chose to urge what may have appeared to be the surer ground for favorable disposition, and did not insist that Wolf be overruled, the amicus curiae, who was also permitted to participate in the oral argument, did urge the Court to overrule Wolf.
Justice Harlan's dissent was incensed that the Court took this approach. He wrote:
[Obscenity] was the principal issue which was decided by the Ohio Supreme Court, which was tendered by appellant's Jurisdictional Statement, and which was briefed [Footnote 5] and argued [Footnote 6] in this Court. In this posture of things, I think it fair to say that five members of this Court have simply "reached out" to overrule Wolf.
[Footnote 5] The appellant's brief did not urge the overruling of Wolf. Indeed, it did not even cite the case. The brief of the appellee merely relied on Wolf in support of the State's contention that appellant's conviction was not vitiated by the admission in evidence of the fruits of the alleged unlawful search and seizure by the police. The brief of the American and Ohio Civil Liberties Unions, as amici, did, in one short concluding paragraph of its argument, "request" the Court to reexamine and overrule Wolf, but without argumentation. I quote in full this part of their brief:
"This case presents the issue of whether evidence obtained in an illegal search and seizure can constitutionally be used in a State criminal proceeding. We are aware of the view that this Court has taken on this issue in Wolf v. Colorado, 338 U. S. 25. It is our purpose by this paragraph to respectfully request that this Court reexamine this issue and conclude that the ordered liberty concept guaranteed to persons by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment necessarily requires that evidence illegally obtained in violation thereof, not be admissible in state criminal proceedings."[Footnote 6] Counsel for appellant on oral argument, as in his brief, did not urge that Wolf be overruled. Indeed, when pressed by questioning from the bench whether he was not, in fact, urging us to overrule Wolf, counsel expressly disavowed any such purpose.
Whenever I hear outrage about overruling Roe in Dobbs, I think back to Mapp. There was no discussion of stare decisis at all, and the Court "reached out" to overrule a precedent that only an amicus asked to be overruled, and did so in a single paragraph without any meaningful analysis. But the Warren Court took the "right" approach to stare decisis. I suppose if you remember the 1960s, you weren't there.
More relevant to the present day, the holding of Mapp suggests that an Amicus who is invited to participate can ask the Supreme Court to overrule a precedent, and the issue is not waived. Indeed, the Amicus was allowed to make this request for the first time before the Supreme Court, even where it was not raised in the lower court litigation. The Supreme Court apparently did not see any problem with waiver or the party presentation rule here. If what the ACLU did was proper, it stands to reason that a similar request could be made by an amicus who is invited to participate in the lower courts, if only to put everyone on notice that a precedent is in doubt, and to preserve the issue for review by the Supreme Court.
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You don’t need an amicus. In the Roberts era (remember, we haven’t had a Democrat-appointed Chief Justice in 71 years) we’ve seen the Court endorse arguments that neither side has made. A recent example is Daimler v. AG Bauman from 2014.
A more recent example is Bruen. Neither side was arguing for that result. It’s the right wing judges who are the lawmakers.
Uh, what do you think the petitioners were arguing for?
"...we haven’t had a Democrat-appointed Chief Justice in 71 years) ..."
What does that have to do with this?
Is anyone else seeing disappearing comments (just not there after the post)?
When I click on Volach tab at the top of the page posts just run together.
Yes, I have the same problem.
Maybe they got tired of people rushing to comment without reading the post?
Good change ... so far !
Seems you have to at least click on the post to see comments and post comments.
I'm not sure what the question is. Presumably an amicus can ask for whatever they want. And the Court often overrules precedents even though the litigants didn't ask for that result. Erie RR overruled Swift v. Tyson, even though, as I understand, the railroad's lawyers did not request that.
Fun facts: last time I checked (which, to be fair, may have been 30 years ago), Davis Polk's website touts their role in Erie, but fails to mention that the case's significance rests on an argument that Davis Polk did not advance. But that's better than the firm's role in Brown v. Board of Education, which as far as I know has been totally scrubbed from the website.
All correct. But look up what Thurgood Marshall had to say about John W. Davis.
Yeah, the Warren court was pretty bad.
AFAIK the Warren Court never went beyond the arguments made by counsel.
Did you try reading the post
Sorry it was late!
Conservatives love to say this but most people (including the critics) wouldn’t actually want to live in a society without many or most of the Warren Court decisions. Indeed once you press them on particulars they either backtrack or come off as a cartoon super-villain.
Good news! To the extent that the stuff the Warren court made up is actually popular, it’s fully implementable by legislation.
Warren court precedents also include ones that ensure ballot access and that legislatures reflect popular sentiment: get rid of the Warren Court and states are back to malapportioned legislatures put in office by an entrenched minority that aren’t reflective of popular will anyway.
I know you think of yourself as an intelligent and thoughtful attorney, but you’re really being a Bob-level ghoul here. If I pressed you on specifics about what “overturning” the Warren Court means in front of your colleagues you’d be either be too embarrassed to articulate them or backtracking a ton. There’s a reason Bob never answers me when I point out what overturning specific precedents means: it’s because he’s actually so ashamed to believe that, even, anonymously he can’t stomach to type out an affirmative endorsement. Do you really want to be like him?
Hahaha what? What kind of company do you keep? My colleagues are normal people who can handle an intellectual discussion without a fainting couch. I’ve had plenty of these conversations in real life, going back to law school.
"What kind of company do you keep?"
People with good values who are excellent attorneys. What kind do you keep? Because unless you interact with regular people and not right-wing groyper freaks, you wouldn't actually announce these views in public/professional settings.
"Intellectual discussion without a fainting couch."
A Bob-level asshole remark. These are real issues affecting real people. Not abstract intellectual exercises.
"I’ve had plenty of these conversations in real life, going back to law school."
You've announced your opposition to school integration and interracial marriage? (Brown and Loving)
You have strenuously advocated the view to your fellow attorneys that poor defendants don't have a right to appointed counsel and that such counsel-less proceedings would be fair? You've had this discussion with lawyers and colleagues and didn't feel embarrassed? (Gideon)
You've told your fellow attorneys that you think it is perfectly acceptable for the State to hide or destroy exculpatory evidence in a criminal case? You've done this without getting weird looks or questions about your commitment to fair play in the discovery process? (Brady).
You've told people you think evidence obtained from illegal searches should actually be admitted in criminal trials? (Mapp) You've also told them that you think wiretaps are fine (Katz), and that police can beat and torture a suspect to get a confession (Miranda)? You've proudly admitted this in public?
You've told people that its good to execute mentally disabled juveniles for non-homicide offenses? You've done that in public? (Atkins and Roper extending logic from Trop v Dulles)?
You've proudly told people in public that you think suspects can be forcibly intubated to search for drugs? You've done that? (Rochin)
You've told people that you think juvenile court judges should be able to lock kids up until they are 21 after summary proceedings where the complaining witness does not even appear? You've told this to lawyers who have represented those in the juvenile system? (In re Gault).
You have argued that it is perfectly acceptable to put people in prison for sodomy (Lawrence, which is an extension of Warren Court precedent). You've told this to your fellow attorneys, who may be gay or engaged in heterosexual oral and anal sex that you think they should be in prison? You've done this without being ashamed and embarrassed?
I could go on, but you get the point. My guess is you haven't actually done this because you know how utterly devastating it would be to your reputation to tell people you think this.
You seem to be making two major fallacies here: first, equating thinking the Warren Court was "pretty bad" means thinking that every decision that issued between 1953 and 1969 was wrong. And second, conflating whether the constitution requires or forbids a particular policy with whether that policy is good or bad.
Civil rights was probably where they did their best work. I would have liked to see Brown offer a more full-throated defense of equality along the lines of Harlan's Plessy dissent rather than dubious social science, but I wasn't around then and I recognize that opposing segregation at all couldn't have been easy, so I don't hold that against them much. Likewise, I'm very happy with the result in Bolling v. Sharpe, but it's not exactly the most doctrinally satisfying decision out there.
That's the second category: cases that instantiate good results but that are also totally made up. Gideon and Griswold fall here: adquately-funded indigent defense is good and banning contraceptives is bad, so I don't get too upset about them, but they're clearly wrong.
The real basis for my "pretty bad" comment, of course, are the cases that are both wrong and produce bad results, and unfortunately there are a lot of them. You've named several (though you've generally described them inaccurately), so I'll confirm.
Yes, I think Mapp was a bad decision. I don't think the exclusionary rule has any real utility in deterring police misconduct, and relying on it has both contributed to the gamification of our criminal justice system instead of focusing it appropriately on the search for truth and seriously hindered the development of actual remedies that could make people whole. Miranda is even worse: it does nothing to meaningfully protect suspect's rights except through periodically and randomly giving some defendants a windfall. Brady instantiated an unhelpful framework that signficantly delayed the introduction of sensible discovery practices that would have been of much greater utility to criminal defendants. Katz is also pretty unworkable if it's to be taken seriously. And of course, they're all completely indefensible as examples of constitutional interpretation. Moreover, while imposing these policies through a rule of criminal procedure or statute would have been bad, at least that would have let us change them. But because the made-up rules they impose are purportedly required by the constitution, we can't even fix the mistake either!
I'm not sure what the later cases you're talking about have to do with anything, although the fact that you have to reach out for cases the the Warren Court didn't even decide in order to defend says a lot about its legacy.
Lmao. Gotcha. This is backtrack and you squirmed. Rahimi levels. I was right. You can admit it.
Btw your criminal law opinions are the theories of a T-14 top half grad who did a district court clerkship and then worked for big law. But I’m glad to see you’re a marginally a better person than Bob though. Keep working on it!
"I would have liked to see Brown offer a more full-throated defense of equality along the lines of Harlan’s Plessy dissent rather than dubious social science,"
I would have liked to see them never invent "substantive due process", and just have declared that Slaughterhouse was wrong. Would have avoided a lot of constitutional distortions, and led directly to wholesale incorporation rather than the ala carte incorporation we actually ended up with.
But, of course, that would let the dreaded "Lochnerism" back in.
The Warren Court wasn’t 100% bangers, but politics ain’t quite that easy Noscitur.
The big one is Gideon v. Wainwright which seems generally well liked precedent among the populous, but would not be as easy a sacrifice for institutions to make just based on political pressure.
Or Brown v. Board. Popular, but not in certain regions!
Or Baker v. Carr which at its core disconnects what’s popular from the implementable.
And their less universally popular decisions are legit good rights jurisprudence or in some other way institutional pillars. NYT v. Sullivan, Griswold, Mapp, the one about not stripping citizenship as a criminal punishment…
Imagine the right-wing freak out if the states charging Trump and co weren’t constrained by Warren Court precedent.
I do believe Wolf was wrongly decided.
I also believe Mapp was not the right case to reconsider Wolf, as none of the parties asked SCOTUS to do so.
If the court appropriately concludes that a decision should be overruled, why is it important whether a party in the pending matter has requested that it be overruled? True, the question whether the decision should be overruled should be squarely presented by the facts of the case, and should be necessary to resolve it -- a decision shouldn't be overruled in dictum. And of course precedent is important, and decisions should rarely be overruled. And I further think that if the court is considering overruling a decision, and neither party has asked it to do so, it should solicit supplemental briefing on the question. But once SCOTUS has agreed to decide a case, it seems to me that it should reach the legally "right" decision, whether or not the parties have requested the specific reasoning it employs to get to that decision.
Whenever I hear outrage about overruling Wolf in Mapp, I think back to Dobbs.
This seems like an unusually bitter post. Some people may or may not have some abstract commitment to stare decesis as a matter of law, but largely when people talk about precedent, what they mean is a reliance interest: they go about their lives relying that the legal rights and protections they have will not be upended, and Dobbs upended everything.
Feel free to apply the abstract principle of a reliance interest to whatever the hell this case is to see who it is had their lives negatively disrupted by it and you’ll find that a small handful of cops and prosecutors had a wholly professional and non-personal reliance interest that made their job marginally harder for a few weeks until they adjusted tactics. Wow, I know, what a cruel world it is. A who-gives-a-fuck criminal justice case from before you were born is lightyears away from why people are angry about Dobbs (or, to be viewpoint neutral, why people were angry enough about Roe to want Dobbs to begin with). Surely you don't pretend that the abortion debate is comparable in intensity to whatever this is.
This is like the ten thousandth post you’ve made this year that consists of calling people hypocrites for being mad about thing but not some completely unrelated thing, as if they are hypocrites, while also failing to understand on even a basic level the psychology of actual human beings or what they value. It’s really really embarrassing. I don’t know if it’s a neurodiversity brain wiring misfire or something, but you need to learn to be a human.
And it’s especially sad because when you were having your heart broken about anti-semitism earlier in the year you wrote about your personal struggle in a way that suggests you expected or valued empathy from your readers. So why are you so psychotic in how you treat others? Awful.
I think he's getting to you.
I agree that there wasn’t much in the way of reliance interests in not having an exclusionary rule, but there I don’t see the “reliance” at issue with Roe/Dobbs (especially since we all got several months advance notice it was coming). I can understand people being upset at the substantive change: I don’t see how they are or should be more upset for reliance reasons. The same is true here.
In a comment in a recent Calabresi post, which used almost normal language, my hypothesis was it could be considered evidence that his last few months' posts might not be a result of a debilitating stroke, but just drunken shitposting. I analogized that to the logic of the famous (if probably apocryphal) Churchill insult:
“Yes, madam, I am drunk. And you are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober.”
It strikes me now that the same logic applies to most Josh Blackman posts. Though in that story, his writing is not that of the drunk who will, after all, be sober in the morning.
The idea this is some gotcha to Dobbs critics is silly.
First, to be clear, the main advocate’s oral argument does challenge the search.
Second, it is not that Mapp v. Ohio was standard practice for the Warren Court. This helps Harlan’s argument.
So, fine, this was a questionable means to overrule the precedent that the exclusionary rule doesn’t apply to the states. Black, the fifth vote, got around his vote in Wolf by arguing it violated the Self-Incrimination Clause.
Each Court, including the Warren Court, did some questionable things. Still, the less than 15-year-old Wolf precedent had significance less in the way of reliance interests than abortion rights. It was not some national concern of great importance on that level.
The final answer seems to be the Supreme Court can use amicus to formulate their decision. The biggest concern here is that even there the amicus argument was mostly in passing.
If the Supreme Court is going to consider overturning precedent, there should be a clear warning. So, e.g., there was a reargument in the Citizens United case.
A good policy would have been to have a reargument that was solely about whether Planned Parenthood v. Casey should be overruled.
To echo what NS said above ...
I think we are reaching a strange point when the justification for conservative jurisprudence is ... the Warren Court???
I guess we can at least take off the masks now and say this is no longer conservative jurisprudence, right?
I mean this justification makes perfect sense to me. Conservatives never had a problem over-turning precedent, they just thought the pre-Warren Court precedents were good and overturning them was bad. They actually thought states should be able to introduce illegally obtained evidence in criminal trials where the defendant didn’t have an attorney, they withheld or destroyed exculpatory evidence, and the jury was all white men. If they didn’t think this, the Warren Court boogieman wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did.
Kind of a passive aggressive post.
From a recent Above the Law post:
The Supreme Court in Mapp overturned Wolf based on the argument of amici, therefore its completely normal for amici to ask a district court judge to overturn Morrison
It's interesting that all the pro-Jack Smith takes uniformly portray the opposition as being against special counsels entirely and not just against Smith in particular. A cursory reading of the anti-Jack Smith crowd's argument quickly reveals their issue is he was never confirmed by the Senate and is, quite literally, a private citizen who currently wields more prosecutorial power than any of the president-nominated and Senate-confirmed U.S. Attorneys. Why do you think they always leave that out?
"It’s interesting that all the pro-Jack Smith takes uniformly portray the opposition as being against special counsels entirely and not just against Smith in particular."
Because they only seem to pop up with Jack Smith.
What about David Hur (Biden documents)?
John Dunham (Russia investigation)?
Robert Mueller (you know)?
John Danforth (Waco)?
Look, I get that they can be consistent and not talk about Hunter Biden (Weiss is both the US Atty. Gen. and Special Counsel in that), but it does seem that the issue is particularly tied to the interests of one special counsel ... and one person.
Also? Special Counsels have the jurisdiction assigned by the AG. The AG (executive branch) can fire a special counsel, although regulations require that the termination be for cause.
I don't understand the issue (other than something something Trump) as the use of special counsels has a long precedent in our nation's history, and the idea that outside attorneys are used in "conflict" situations is not exactly novel.
I'm going to give a brief history lesson, as I understand it, as to why this post is so bizarre (yet ... also on-brand for Blackman).
The Warren Court was villified (VILLIFIED!) by conservatives for decades. It was practically the boogeyman. Why?
We all know why. Race. The Warren Court is famously the Court that decided Brown v. Board and a number of other decisions that tried to remove the practices of de jure racism, root and branch, from America.
But a lot of the jurisprudence that they came up with is the type of thing that most Americans today, even the conservative ones, believe in. Many of the protections we assume we have from the government are due to the Warren Court. They greatly expanded the incorporation of the Bill of Rights. They massively changed criminal procedure (Brady, Gideon, Katz, Terry, Miranda, Mapp, etc.). They truly expanded the freedoms of the First Amendment (Brandenburg/Yates, Sullivan, Jacobellis, Tinker, etc.). And, of course, they reiterated that states cannot just ignore the Supreme Court (Cooper).
That said, there was some truly valid criticism to the Warren Court. As the 60s turned to the 70s, the Warren Court, and the courts trying to carry this on, went from looking at just de jure issue to de facto issues ... and courts began micromanaging institutions and getting away from narrow readings of the law. In other words, while there is a lot of good that the Warren Court did, there was also a hangover caused by the judicial overreach- which I think is best encapsulated by "trees have standing."
In other words, the conservative (small-c) backlash was about bringing judges back to the role of being careful minimalists. And that's not a bad thing!
Which is why it is ... illuminating that Josh wants to invoke the Warren Court. Because this isn't a (small-c) conservative approach. This is a revolutionary approach, one that demands that judges reach preferred results, and that the judiciary is invested with the power to solve problems.
It didn't end up working the first time, and it won't work this time. We don't want or need a council of guardians to decide our fate.
Justice Douglas' infamous "trees having standing" dissent was not quite about the interests of actual trees. For instance, there was a recent failed attempt to obtain relief in the name of an elephant.
He was concerned for the interests of people who enjoyed the trees. For instance:
"The river as plaintiff speaks for the ecological unit of life that is part of it. Those people who have a meaningful relation to that body of water - whether it be a fisherman, a canoeist, a zoologist, or a logger - must be able to speak for the values which the river represents and which are threatened with destruction."
The people who would have standing would have specific interests:
"those people who have so frequented the place as to know its values and wonders will be able to speak for the entire ecological community"
The open-ended nature of this argument is granted. If we allow such standing, it should be more carefully provided by law. See, e.g., the examples referenced in Wildlife as Property Owners: A New Conception of Animal Rights by Karen Bradshaw.
I was sympathetic to the elephant lawsuit ("Happy") but respect the rejection of standing given the law as written.
To be clear, it wasn't just about trees.
It was about allowing all inanimate objects to have standing.
Sure, maybe the court could appoint a representative, like a guardian ad lite, but again- it was about allowing inanimate objects to have standing.
And this, to me, is why the Warren Court's jurisprudence began to recede.
His discussion seems more to be about the interests of consumers of nature. A fisherman would sue to stop the pollution of a river.
Anyway, no one else joined him. Two dissented on other grounds.
I agree that no one else joined him, but he really did think that inanimate objects should have standing qua inanimate objects.
The reason I bring this up is because while I happen to love a lot of what the Warren Court did (as do most people when they understand what the decisions meant), it's the hangover in the late 60s and 70s that show what happens when courts take things too far.
This is one example. But SCRAP is another (and that's a majority opinion).
But that's standing. I think the real issue (as I noted in the first post) was the increasing involvement in courts in micromanaging institutions.
The Warren Court was a necessary corrective to earlier jurisprudence. But then ... well, the courts are supposed to be the least dangerous branch, not the primary system of governance.
It's unfortunate that the best critique that (small-c) conservatives had, one that led to judicial minimalism, has been discarded in favor of, "Ima want the courts to solve every problem." It doesn't end well. It never does.