The Volokh Conspiracy
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Latest About UCLA Protesters
From the Associate Vice Chancellor for Campus Safety today:
Dear Bruin Community:
I write to share an update on demonstration activity on campus yesterday, which resulted in violence, destruction of property and the blocking of student access to parts of campus.
This was completely unacceptable. The demonstration activity disregarded our values as a community, violated our campus policies and broke the law. These actions injured people, threatened the safety of our community and vandalized our campus. These actions also prevented students from completing their final exams.
At around 3:15 p.m., activity started at the top of the steps leading to Royce Quad, where a group of people dyed the water in Shapiro Fountain red, used water-filled barriers and chicken wire to block the area, used amplified sound, and set up tents and canopies. When this group of individuals was told to disperse, they moved to Kerckhoff patio carrying wooden shields. At Kerckhoff patio, the group proceeded to vandalize property with permanent red paint and erected barriers that blocked students and the public from accessing that part of campus. At the same time, another group at Moore Hall disrupted final exams.
When the group on Kerckhoff patio was told to disperse, they moved to an area near Dodd Hall. This resulted in some students having to miss finals because they were blocked from entering classrooms. Additionally, some students had to be evacuated in the middle of taking their final exams.
Throughout the evening, there were also violent attacks on safety personnel and law enforcement, resulting in at least six injuries to UCPD [= UCLA Police Department] personnel and other safety officers. One security guard was left with his head bleeding after he was struck with an object. Simply put, these acts of non-peaceful protest are abhorrent and cannot continue.
During these events, 27 individuals were arrested. We are still determining which arrestees are not members of the UCLA community. Students who were arrested will be subject to disciplinary actions based on UCOP guidance [UCOP = UC Office of the President], which could include a campus exclusion that will prevent them from being on campus to take finals or participate in commencement ceremonies.
UCLA is firmly committed to protecting the free expression rights of everyone in our community, regardless of their views, as long as demonstrations are peaceful and follow guidelines for the appropriate time, place and manner for campus demonstrations. Yesterday's protest was not peaceful. These guidelines support advocacy that does not jeopardize safety or disrupt university operations.
Disruptions and protests are expected at various locations on campus through the end of our commencement ceremonies. Rights to free expression will be protected, but we will not tolerate violence. Protecting UCLA faculty, staff, students and visitors and creating an environment conducive to teaching, learning, working and living continues to be our priority. The campus community belongs to all of us and we must model the respect we expect to receive from others.
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Its kind of funny how decisive the authorities are when the activist far left crosses the corporate/establishment left compared to when they are just hassling the right.
Yes, I've noticed that as well....
Maybe because "just hassling" is totally protected free speech, not violent acts as described in the post?
Hmmm, could be, could be...
"Get out of here, we're going to knife you, white boy" is protected speech....
Right....
How are your fantasy encounters with imaginary enemies relevant?
Or the rest of the citizenry. Nothing listed here as abhorrent wouldn't have been vehemently defended as "peaceful protest" if done as part of the BLM George Floyd riots by the very same people.
Hypothetical hypocrites!
No, none of them were bothered by the news coming out in front if flaming buildings proclaiming "fiery but peaceful protests". People like you.
Yeah, good ol'Sarcasto defended this, and worse, during BLM.
No, nobody defended the arsonists and other violent actors during BLM. They should, and largely did, get arrested, prosecuted, and imprisoned.
We just said that you can't demonize the whole movement based on those fringe criminal elements. Same as here.
Rights to free expression will be protected, but we will not tolerate violence.
I mean, this has been going on since October and they haven't done anything, which is pretty much the opposite of "decisive."
Question: does an order to disburse have to be given at each place rioters/protesters gather? If so, that would seem to give them a pass so long as they kept moving (take over 1 building, wait until told to leave, go to building 2, wait, go to building 3, rinse and repeat indefinitely).
Which is why you shouldn't give orders to disperse.
Surround the mob and close in and arrest them all.
Give them a fair trial and put them in jail.
Or, if you are a Republican, glorify the mobsters at political rallies, whine incessantly about the prosecutions of the un-American losers, pledge to pardon the criminals, and cheer for the mobster choir.
No, but it does have to be given to each person. If you only give the order to disperse the first time, there's the possibility that someone at the second location says, "Wait, I wasn't at Building 1; I never heard any order."
What were they protessting?
Like the old Groucho Marx song "Whatever It Is Their Against It".
Sort of like Al Capp's S.W.I.N.E.?
(students wildly indignant about nearly everything)
So does this mean that the police will actually be allowed to arrest these rule breaking protesters? Or is this just more tough sounding talk followed by no consequences?
Are you
able to read
?During these events, 27 individuals were arrested.
AND RELEASED.....
They were cited... you know what that means, right?
On what possible grounds would they be kept jailed? Trump's a convicted felon and he was RELEASED.
Trump's an almost 90 year old man living with constant news coverage, and a Secret Service detail, who was not arrested for a violent crime.
27 violent offenders vs Trump. Sure, totally the same thing. The real question is, will there be any actual punishment?
77/78 is almost 90?
They didn't get to be Trump fans with adequate education, strong intellect, and a fondness for truth or the reality-based world.
80 million of your Bettors against you? My Shekels are on the Klingers.
Frank “Everyone’s a genius until they get punched in the mouth”
80 million?
The clingers never had 80 million votes. Clingers are dying off and being replaced (by better Americans) every day.
Compared to university students, yes.
Lol, 90 is the new 80?
The maximum sanction mentioned was "campus exclusion". Does that mean expulsion is off the table?
From an AP account:
"
The individuals were cited for willful disruption of university operations and one for interfering with an officer, according to UCLA police. They were issued 14-day orders to stay away from UCLA and then released.
Any student arrested will face disciplinary action, which could include being banned from campus and not being able to take finals or participate in commencement ceremonies, Braziel said."
Arrested and released. Way to control things.
It is common for an arrested person to be released with an order to stay away from the victim. Where I live it's as simple as that. In some states a judge might order many thousands of dollars in bail to be posted.
How many times do you get to go through the revolving door before being subject to any real consequences?
How do you think it's supposed to work?
Strongly worded letters usually don't work. I'd call the IDF Hostage Rescue Team
Where there a bunch of babies there protesting that needed murderizing or something?
I gotta tell you, JHBHBE: If you're OK with Israelis being slaughtered for being Israelis (which is what happened on 10/7/23, which is why Israel invaded Gaza, which unavoidably resulted in civilian casualties among the Gaza population -- but I'm sure you knew all that), sooner or later you'll face the prospect of "whites" being slaughtered for being "whites." You're not just a bigot, you're a fool.
But hey, he died for our sins
In this case, yes, the protesters deserved murderizing if we're keeping to your wild mischaracterization of reality.
Was this the same group that attacked Hillel Rabbi Dovid Gurevich?
Notably absent from the UCLA statement was any mention of the attack on the Rabbi. Nor was any mention of the anti-semitism / pro murder / pro hamas / pro terrorist nature of the protests.
The virus (antisemitism) has taken hold in America.
Nothing in the post gives any hint of antisemitism. But don't let that stop you! Gotta live your life angry and afraid, or else you might... wake up to reality. Yuck, no fun, reality.
Sure Randal; they were protesting lousy food in the cafeteria. Wake up.
Maybe they were protesting war crimes and the morally bankrupt losers who defend war criminals.
Oh, Revolting Arthur, I apologize, I forgot you were there.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-police-move-in-on-pro-palestinian-demonstrators-at-ucla/
Uh... thanks for posting an article confirming the apparent lack of antisemitism.
Don't be a deliberately obtuse dick. Read the news. The protest was organized by Students for Justice in Palestine. On their website they state "From the river to the sea, we will continue to fight for the honor and dignity of the Palestinian people." That is clearly anti-semitic, anti-Israeli, and calling for violence. They even have images of paragliders accompanying that statement.
And let's not ignore that a rabbi was attacked on campus yesterday by these "protesters."
Your dick is obtuse. Sounds like they dropped the “Palestine will be free” part, which was the only part that could even be stretched into something plausibly antisemitic. Seems to me like they’re trying to be sensitive to Jews' feelings on the matter.
Or do you really think it’s antisemitic for the Palestinian people to have dignity? What sort of evil asswipe are you?
Don't you know what "from the river to the sea" means?
Don't you know to what the images of paragliders refer?
Wow.
Paragliders? It's a war. I sometimes feel that isn't well understood by some. When you're in a war, it's not unusual or inherently immoral for the propaganda to depict its favored side winning in battle.
"Battle"? Dropping paragliders on a music festival, killing dancers and taking hostages is "battle"? That's fucked up.
That's my point. It's a war. It's horrible. Just look at Israel's cold-blooded muder of aid workers.
It's certainly unsavory to be highlighting the violence in propaganda, especially the more war-crimey stuff. But not antisemitic.
Are you kidding? The paralgliders were deployed while a cease fire was in force, to raid a civilian music festival and kill, rape, and kidnap civilians. That's not a war, it's a war crime, a crime against humanity. The war started AFTER Oct. 7.
I don’t think “ Obtuse” means what you think it means
Hey, don't be so racist against deliberately obtuse dicks. Randal's a first-generation immigrant from Deliberatelyobtusedickistan.
Randal 3 hours ago
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Mute User
"Nothing in the post gives any hint of antisemitism. "
Randal - Denier of Reality - the final frontier for a typical woke leftist .
While you have frequently denied it, You commentary very much has been pro hamas since oct 7.
Randal, you aren't stupid.
You know the motivation for these protests is the pro-Hamas activism that has gotten Israel "right where we want them" according to the Judeocidal leader of Hamas.
Hamas is certainly antisemitic. And I'm sure there are a few antisemitic protesters.
But antisemitism isn't what's drawing so many people to the protests. It's the growing frustration with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians both now and over the last 50, 75 years.
You are also not stupid and must know that.
Randal 14 mins ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Hamas is certainly antisemitic. And I’m sure there are a few antisemitic protesters.
"But antisemitism isn’t what’s drawing so many people to the protests."
Really - Antisemitism is primary driver of what is drawing the the protesters to the protests.
You, on the other hand, are stupid.
Stupid and bigoted, like most of this blog's right-wing regulars.
Some people seem to think it is wrong to mention that.
"has taken hold" ... uh... never let go of it, ever, for anyone paying attention.
"Jews will not replace us!" is not something "very fine people" chant while marching around Confederate statues holding torches.
Anything that includes a "George Soros-funded..." blah blah blah where the context is essentially "rich Jewish guy pulls strings to make bad stuff happen."
Do a search back through Conservative media outlets for mentions of George Soros in articles that have nothing to do with him directly or any of his financial interests or family. Count those up.
The US President having meals and being public about them with known anti-Semitic people like Nick Fuentes and Kanye West is a sign that vocal anti-Semitism doesn't disqualify one from polite society. (Not that I'm accusing Trump of being "polite," but you get the point.)
How long has Pepe The Frog been a white supremacist symbol? Certainly since before Trump was elected as he showed up a lot in memes during Obama's presidency. Don Trump Jr is fan of Pepe.
Anti-Semitism has been with us for as long as there was an "us" in this country. What's changed since the Obama administration are the social norms that encouraged people to keep those ideas to themselves because they're socially unacceptable. Now, post-Trump, let your hate flag fly.
As they say, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Good men aren't in charge at UCLA, or even the neighboring government.
Perhaps men less evil than the Hamas lovers, but not good men.
Some people seem to have had a grudge against UCLA since the announcement that law students in UCLA classrooms would no longer be subjected to vile racial slurs from disaffected, bigot-hugging, faux libertarian professors.
UCLA: "You little monsters we created need to stop being destructive monsters so that admission applications, and more importantly, future tuition payments are not disrupted. If not, a note will be placed in your permanent file".
Let's see if that works. The can always issue a another mildly critical letter threatening a light slap on the wrist -- but this time in large font.
Or instruct their campus police to not interfere if counter protesters arrive with clubs to assault them. Why stop with just a slap on the wrist when a crack on the skull is on the menu. And hey, nothing says "your kids are safe on our campus" like campus police standing back while your child gets beaten by masked thugs only to be arrested afterwards and called "violent" for attempting to protect themselves.
As to UCPD, I think you will find that they drew in officers from the other UC campi -- UMass does that all the time. Having it organized as a system police department means they all have identical uniforms and can be brought in from elsewhere when needed.
What happens to the kids who couldn't take their finals? That sounds like grounds for a lawsuit to me -- it isn't an "academic judgement" to not let me into the room, so give me an "A" or I sue.
And how did they know it was ONLY red dye in the water? I'd have presumed HazMat until I knew otherwise. Abundance of caution maybe, but this isn't Mayberry, circa 1950.
Seems Columbia is still having problems: https://www.amherstindy.org/2024/06/11/the-generation-that-says-no-more-inside-the-columbia-university-encampments-for-palestine/
Every time you say "campi," an antifa gets its AK-47.
Randal will be filling in for Nige , until Nige wakes from his slumber.
The plural "campi" is at least etymologically sound, unlike "octopi." I have never heard a real person use it.
Is that like, "Despite being short for their age, the shrimpy scampi were always getting themselves into trouble!"
I don't see why an "A" is deserved. As an administrator I would consider offering a makeup exam or the grade earned up through the end of classes. If there is an established procedure for earthquakes and power failures, follow it.
This response seems oddly muted in comparison to the violence and destruction of property it describes. It's as if the administration can't quite bring itself to enforce its own rules. If that's the case, then those leaders should be fired and replaced with those who can.
.
Exactly right. In the recent past, students / faculty were disciplined for saying / writing something "politically incorrect." But cheering the mass-murder of Israelis and calling for the slaughter of all Israelis (in some case, all Jews worldwide) didn't rate any discipline for some reason. Not even when the "anti-Zionists" escalated to encampments, blocking access, building takeovers, vandalism, violence, etc.! How strange...
The wording is weaker than I would have used. Start with "Yesterday there was a violent demonstration on campus during which several people were injured."
“… could include a campus exclusion that will prevent them from being on campus to take finals or participate in commencement ceremonies.”
If they debate that long enough, students will have taken finals and graduated. It’s only fear of being called by the US House and loss of donors that’s driving many universities and colleges to enforce their rules, let alone even recognize violations of their rules.
Did former professor Volokh write much about the Israeli-supporting protesters who criminally and violently assaulted pro-Palestinian protesters for hours while police and UCLA personnel refrained from assisting the victims?
Partisans gonna hack.
But not necessarily at UCLA any longer, or in a law school classroom.
I love how incoherent this complaint is.
UCLA never should have given the protesters a law free zone-- the encampment should have immediately been dispersed. But once the decision was made to let people act unlawfully because, hey, it's a protest-- then fine, the protesters have the law free zone they wanted. More than that actually, they were the law, because they took it upon themselves to make it a no go zone for Jews. But the minute counter protestors break the law, the reaction is supposed to be swift and decisive? Sorry, protesters, you got the law free zone you wanted. Hope you enjoyed good and hard.
Speaking of enjoyment . . . how long 'til cheeseburgers, shrimp cocktail, crabmeat Hoelzel, and Alton Brown's magnificent candied bacon?
Carry on, clingers. But not necessarily for much longer.
Blue on Blue.
You hate to see it.
....well played. Every Trojan fan is laughing, I am sure.
Heh.
Welcome to Westwood, Chancellor Frenk
"Associate Vice Chancellor for Campus Safety"
Any institution that needs this job title is a place to avoid.
It is also a place to deprive of government grants.
Education-disdaining, bigoted conservatives are among my favorite culture war casualties . . . and the target audience of a white, male, faux libertarian blog . . . and part of the reason UCLA law students won't be experiencing so many vile racial slurs in classrooms any more.
How many of these protestors were UCLA students? If any were, they should suffer serious academic consequences for violating applicable school policies up to and including expulsion.
All protestors should be charged with applicable crimes and prosecuted. The people who planned these events should be investigated to see if their planning constituted a criminal conspiracy.
I agree. These campus. "protests" seem to be organized nationwide by Students for Justice in Palestine. See their webpage. Where's the FBI? DoJ? It seems to me this is a coordinated, criminal conspiracy to disrupt campuses across the U.S.
No. Not everything is a conspiracy.
For various (and sad) reasons, a lot of the younger generation just sees Israel as the equivalent of South Africa, oppressing people.
It's not a criminal conspiracy, it's a change in the zeitgeist.
Sad.
And accurate.
Loki - That is the way lots of young people see Israel. The reality is that Israel is one of the most free, if not the most free, country in the middle east.
You’re right, Israel's not oppressing its own citizens. For the most part.
While your commentary since oct 7th has indicated a strong pro-hamas position, an organization that seriously oppresses its own citizens.
I’m pro-Israel. I just happen to think that calling everyone antisemites is a really bad strategy for Israel, and instead, Israel needs to figure out a solution it can live with (and which isn’t the apartheid status-quo). Even if that solution is the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. (But hopefully it isn't.) That’s what my commentary has been directed towards.
Pro- Israel you say?
Your commentary since oct 7th has not reflected a pro-Israel attitude.
And you commentary reveals a misreading of the situation that’s going to get Israel into real trouble.
Hamas is getting exactly what it wanted. Israel is nearly at pariah status worldwide. Calling everyone antisemites, as though there are no legitimate complaints about Israel’s decisions, is a transparent deflection doing more harm than good. It’s playing right into Hamas’ hands.
Hamas wants this to be a holy war. Israel and its supporters like you are taking the bait.
Randal,
What you say is correct. Hamas has gotten Israel where it wants it by the necessary martyring of Gazans and by exploiting the unconscious bias of antisemitism.
When some protestors set up "no Jew" zones and other don't walk away from the protest, they are engaging in antisemitic behavior regardless of their excuses.
As for taking the bait, any other action by Israel would have been unthinkable to its populations and all who understand what "never forget" means.
Palestinians have had hapless leaders for the past 75 or more years, who have passed up every opportunity for peaceful co-existence in a two-state solution. The complicity of Arab nations which have scorned Palestinian Arabs for decades should not be ignored. The time for that concept is past, as is the possibility for a single secular state from the river to the sea.
I don't claim to have answers, but I see something more than moral idealism in the campus protests. The fear among many Jews on campus is real and is far greater the the responses to perceived "micro-agressions."
There were no “no Jew” zones. That term was made up by right-wingers.
The campus protests certainly want Israel to “lose,” whatever that entails. When you do a war, there’s a chance you lose, and it’s not racist to root for one side or the other.
any other action by Israel would have been unthinkable
I’m not saying Israel should’ve taken any other action. I’m saying that it’s taking the wrong PR approach to protests. Telling people they have to be on Israel’s side because of the religious feelings of Jews is a loser argument! It’s basically Hamas’s argument!
Palestinians have had hapless leaders for the past 75 or more years, who have passed up every opportunity for peaceful co-existence in a two-state solution. The complicity of Arab nations which have scorned Palestinian Arabs for decades should not be ignored. The time for that concept is past, as is the possibility for a single secular state from the river to the sea.
Yes, make this argument! Someone can disagree with it without being an antisemite, but they’d at least need a rational response. “You’re either with me or you’re an antisemite” doesn’t require any rational thought to reject. It’s retarded on its face.
When superstitious, bigoted right-wing assholes set up "no Palestinian" zones in the West Bank, fellow superstitious, bigoted wingnuts -- including many conservative regulars at this white, male, right-wing blog -- cheer the terrorists on.
Most Americans don't support right-wing belligerence -- especially when laced with superstition and bigotry -- at home. That anyone would expect them favor and subsidize it anywhere else is inexplicable, especially with war crimes involved. The Netanyahu government and the losers who elected that government seem destined to learn that lesson the hardest way.
This seems a foolish approach for Netanyahu and the bigots in his cabinet and electorate, but . . . it's their funeral.
Israel's own citizens include Palestinians, who can vote, hold office, buy and sell real estate, an so forth. In Gaza, a Palestinian found selling real estate to a Jew can suffer the death penalty.
Any questions?
Israel's government has for decades methodically and sometimes brutally privileged Jewish residents over non-Jewish residents.
In the West Bank, a Palestinian refusing to give their home and farm to a Jew can be killed by a mob protected by the IDF.
We could go at this all day. For every verified wrong one side has perpetrated, the other has done something as well. Neither side seems willing to let the other live in peace. Both sides have committed war crimes recently. And Israel's own commitment to democratic freedoms has taken a major hit as the government arrests citizens who publicly disagree with how they're conducting this war. It is precisely because of Israel's status as a free (ish) democracy that they're being held to such a high standard of conduct.
Israel risks winning the war through ethnic cleansing and then losing the very allies that help protect them.
There are no good guys (at the state-group level) in this context.
Since Israel started electing right-wing, superstition-driven, war-criming, un-American bigots, there is no nation or political group in that region that deserves or should expect to continue to receive American support.
Hamas. Israel. Saudi Arabia. Syria. Qatar. Emirates. Hezbollah. Etc. What a bunch of worthless, obsolete assholes.
Well, no. It's doing that too.
We're like schools of fish, almost all of us, in some regards. It's not really following a leader, but avoiding conflict with those who are immediately adjacent to ourselves. Adaptation to community is a powerful instinct, and has nothing to do with philosophy or any kind of higher intellectual thought. (At its root, typically, is fear.)
Groupist action is potentially beneficial and potentially harmful.
One of the things I like about almost all the people I've known who have had serious mental disorders, especially schizophrenics, is their inability to be synchronized with groupist behaviors like that. When you can't predictably synchronize the elements of your own cognition, it's very impractical to do it with others.
"No. Not everything is a conspiracy."
Define conspiracy.
Let me restate it. A political organization is organizing people across the nation to disrupt campus activities, including engaging in illegal activities.
(Is that not a conspiracy? If not, what is it?)
Not all of the campuses had any disruption and even UCLA, prior to the violent attacks from counter-protesters, wasn't really that disrupted. Students could get to their classes even if it required taking a different path on campus. Most of the disruption we've witnessed is the result of the university presidents calling the police to remove protesters, which resulted in police beatings and other violence, or counter-protesters initiating the violence.
The campuses that engaged with their students and protected free speech had a far different experience than UCLA did.
Your conspiracy theory matches your politics more than it does the facts.
"Where’s the FBI? DoJ? "
Still chasing protestors from 1/6/2021 for misdemeanors.
In group protestors are not investigated for conspiracy, silly.
Nearly 900 convictions (so far). Plenty of felonies. More than 500 sentences of incarceration.
Maybe some un-American insurrectionists and disaffected right-wing losers have learned a lesson or two.
In any event . . . Justice. Accountability. USA!
Elsewhere, protests are expanding in scope to include a demand that charges be dropped against past protesters.
I am currently protesting that I am not receiving one billion dollars, every year, tax free.
People can ask for whatever they want. Doesn't mean that they will get it.
Yes, but these "protesters" are implementing and threatening the disruption of campus activities until their demands are met, vandalizing the campus, and threatening and actually assaulting those who disagree with them, or for whom they harbor a grudge, like Jews.
Meaning, they are not merely protesters, they are criminal thugs.
College protesters are criminal thugs.
Israelis are war criminals.
Everybody is something.
Especially the Jews that join the people protesting for Palestinian lives. No grudges get harbored like those do, amirite?!
If only right-wingers would be this animated about a bunch of yahoos, some armed, trying to overturn a national election by bashing in the heads of cops, taking out doors and windows from a public building, smearing feces on walls, hunting people down with zip-ties at the ready to interrogate them, and forcing the staff of the building to barricade themselves in a conference room out of fear for their lives. That's some sort of legitimate protest but 30 hippies in tents chanting anti-war slogans is criminal conspiracy!
"Rights to free expression will be protected, but we will not tolerate violence."
Yep. That is the alpha and the omega.
Protest all you want peacefully. But if you aren't doing it peacefully, then you should accept the penalty.
In addition to the usual law requiring people to leave a building on command of the owner or owner's agent, in California we have:
Penal code 602.10
Penal code 602.11
Picket lines by striking workers are specifically exempt from 602.11. Yelling at people is not by itself a violation of 602.11.
A very "I never though the leopards would eat my face" statement.
I feel badly for Jews at UCLA and also for the other innocent students. Being led by donkeys.
Do you also feel badly for the Federalist Society members at UCLA who will no longer be able to choose a law school class based on how many vile racial slurs a Federalist Society professor can be expected to launch in that class?