The Volokh Conspiracy
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Why a "Libertarian-Nationalist Alliance" Makes No Sense
Vivek Ramaswamy isn't the first to advocate this badly wrong idea. But there's still no good justification for it.

Earlier today, former GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy made some waves by calling for "a libertarian-nationalist alliance." This is far from a new idea. "Paleo-libertarians" like Lew Rockwell advocated much the same thing for many years. But it remains as wrong as ever. Nationalism is deeply antithetical to libertarianism, and liberal values more generally. An ideology based on liberty, free markets, and universal human rights can't be squared with one based on collectivism, ethnic particularism, and government control over much of the economy. Cato Institute scholar Alex Nowrasteh and I elaborated on this in greater detail in "The Case Against Nationalism," published in National Affairs earlier this year. Here is an excerpt from the introduction:
Nationalism has become a dominant ideology on the American political right and has gained ground in many European countries over the last decade. This has happened without sufficient attention to the dangers inherent in nationalism — dangers evident in theory and in practice in this latest iteration of nationalism as well as prior ones.
Nationalism is particularly dangerous in a diverse nation like the United States, where it is likely to exacerbate conflict. The ideology is virtually impossible to separate from harmful ethnic and racial discrimination of a kind conservatives would readily condemn in other contexts. Like socialism, with which it has important similarities, nationalism encourages harmful government control over the economy. Nationalism also poses a threat to democratic institutions. Finally, nationalist ideology is at odds with America's foundational principles, which are based on universal natural rights, not ethnic particularism.
In crucial ways, nationalism is just socialism with different flags and more ethnic chauvinism. All Americans, but especially traditional conservatives, classical liberals, and libertarians, should recognize nationalism's dangers and recommit instead to the core principles of our founding.
Eric Boehm of Reason offers an additional critique of Ramaswamy's idea:
There are many factions of libertarians, of course, but the one belief that unites the movement is an understanding that individuals are best suited to make their own decisions about how to live. Nationalism, at its root, is a fundamentally collectivist idea that prioritizes the needs of the state over the choices of individuals…
The current wave of nationalism sweeping the right wing of American politics is not about innocent-sounding things like restoring national pride. Its proponents are quite open about the fact that they want to grow the power of the state to pursue things like industrial policy, aggressive deportations, and even very silly stuff like banning lab-grown meat.
That puts the two perspectives very much in tension. In practice, libertarians advocate for decreasing the power of the state to control individual freedom. Nationalists have no qualms about limiting the free movement of people or goods if those restrictions are seen to be—or imagined to be—in the amorphous interests of the country.
Admittedly, "nationalism" and "libertarianism" are relatively vague terms that different people use in different ways. It is theoretically possible to imagine a movement that calls itself nationalist, but actually promotes liberty. But, as Alex Nowrasteh and I explain, that isn't what either today's "national conservatives" or any historically significant nationalist movement advocate.
Similarly, there are certainly people who call themselves "libertarian," but are actually right-wing culture warriors highly sympathetic to nationalism. Sadly, most of the current leadership of the Libertarian Party is like that. But in so far as libertarianism is about free markets and individual liberty, it can't be squared with nationalism, as that ideology is generally understood by the vast majority of its advocates.
There are, obviously, historical examples of alliances between groups with widely disparate ideologies. The World War II alliance between the Soviet Union and the Western allies is an obvious example. For a brief time, they could cooperate because they had a common enemy they feared and hated even more than each other (though that happened only after the Soviets' attempt to instead form an alliance with the Nazis failed, when Hitler decided to attack them).
But there is no comparable basis for an alliance between libertarians and nationalists. In this era, nationalists are themselves the biggest menace to liberty in most Western nations, including the United States. They favor as much or more government spending and government control of industry as most left-liberals do. And, they throw in protectionism, massive immigration restrictions (which themselves are a grave threat to the economic liberty even of natives), and culture war-driven regulations of personal behavior on top of that. On the latter front, they go so far as to advocate escalating the already awful War on Drugs into a real war by attacking Mexico. For these reasons and more, a libertarian-nationalist alliance makes no more sense than a libertarian-socialist alliance would.
One can occasionally find specific narrow issues where libertarian and right-wing nationalist views align; the same is true with libertarians and leftists. For example, both libertarians and nationalists oppose government-imposed racial preferences for minorities (though most nationalists abandon color-blindness when it comes to such issues as racial profiling and immigration). But there is no basis for any wide-ranging alliance.
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Libertarian beggars wanting to be choosers. Go sit in your corner in perpetual irrelevance.
Bingo! +1
Two groups of mismatched misfits trying to huddle for warmth as the modern world shoves them further toward irrelevance.
It's as if Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan had assembled a "unity" ticket.
(Did anyone know that Ron Paul is still alive?)
And yet, your Young Pioneer chapter keeps shrinking.
Well, when you have "become ungovernable" as the slogan of your national convention, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
That isn't even anarchy -- I don't quite know what it is beyond the fascist nihilism that one usually associates with the left.
Amurica had less reason to go to war against May-He-Co in the 1840's than we do today, pretty certain if 20,000,000 Amuricans were illegally in May-He-Co selling Fent-a-nol, committing crimes, they'd be as understanding as we are, I don't care how well we do landscaping.
Frank
50 years from now, Mexico would thank us if we went in now and took out their drug gangs, which they can't do.
Actually, El Salvador is making progress with MS-13...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/world/americas/el-salvador-gangs.html
So we're in agreement that theft of territory is not much of a reason to start a war?
Pretty much all named political theories and ideologies – libertarianism, nationalism, liberalism, conservatism, etc etc. are not primary to human political beliefs but are instead secondary or derived from primary beliefs. If someone believes that their group should be left alone to be free to do what they want and that their group is superior to other groups which should therefore be controlled, they will respond positively to both libertarian and nationalist ideas where they’re not forced to confront the contradictions.
Hell's bells - I just want mine!
Whatever that is, that is...
You are confusing nationalism with white nationalism. People who are skeptical of globalism, especially its legal and judicial expressions, but instead favor the sovereignty of nation states, come in all manner of iterations, some malignant, some benign. Dogmatic libertarianism is a variant of globalism since pure liberty is inimical to national borders.
You are confusing nationalism with white nationalism.
I am not. I am not talking about nationalism, I am talking about how people think about nationalism.
Yes, lazy thinkers.
No no no. This is the internet. We're supposed to get into a furious argument impugning each other's intellect, ancestry, and sexual preferences, not merely acknowledge each other's comment.
So true, especially unordained reverends.
I thought you can get almost anything at Costco, including ordinations
Somin calls himself a libertarian, but does not agree with the Libertarian Party of today. He also does not agree with nationalism, or with the USA defending its borders. So now he tells us that libertarians and nationalists should not form an alliance! Neither will be taking advice from him.
"nationalists are themselves the biggest menace to liberty"
I would like to see some specific example of how his liberty was less under the Trump administration, than the Biden administration.
There's are so many strawman arguments going on here with Ilya's definition of Nationalism that Texas is going to need a new crop of hay this year.
Yeah, my reaction, too.
“There are so many straw man arguments here, I can’t even be bothered to name one!”
Honestly, Ilya's largest flaw here is that "libertarian" and "Nationalism" fall on different axes from one another.
Nationalism falls on the axis of how (political) power is, for lack of a better term, "grouped." It holds that the nation should be the primary political power unit. There are alternatives. There could be "kin-ism" where power is centered on the family. Feudalism is an outgrowth of that, where families and ties between families held the primary political power. Or "tribalism" the centering of political power on the tribe. Or "religious-ism," where religious authority could hold primary power.
"Globalism" is in principle possible, but any power structure needs some outgroup remain important. Otherwise it breaks down to one of the lesser options. Likely a version of neo-tribalism. The concept of civic nationalism is the most open and accepting of these concepts, and thus most amenable with libertarian ideals.
Libertarianism by contrast looks at political values of maximizing liberty, but doesn't address the relative power grouping
You're giving way too much attention to a non-serious, strawman argument.
I think it's important, beyond Ilya's strawman, for individuals to understand that Nationalism is not about "restricting liberty.", It is an organizational structure for political power. One that is an evolution of several previous organizational structures.
Also, it's important to understand there will be "some" structure for political power, because that's how humans work. Arguing against it will put into place one of the other political power structures, which may be worse for overall liberty.
Nationalism restricts liberty. Your description of nationalism is about how it shapes systems to do that.
I’m not a libertarian, but at least I understand what liberty is, and who deserves is (everyone in every country not just those in this country who conform to your nationalist model).
"Everyone in every country deserves liberty"
Truly magical thinking.
Do you argue that libertarians do not believe this?
Your comment explicitly stated:
1) You are not a libertarian, and
2) "at least you understand" that "everyone in every country" deserves liberty.
And now you are trying to claim you were actually stating what libertarian believe. Piss off, Sarcastro. You got caught saying something dumb and now you're trying to wriggle off the hook.
I note you don't argue that this is not what libertarians believe.
I do believe the broad swath of who deserves liberty as well (and I could have said that better; not gonna wiggle out of that).
I differ from libertarians not in who I believe deserves liberty, but in a few other ways:
1) I do not believe liberty is the only concept of inherent value that society should seek to maximize.
2) I'm not an idealist, but pretty pragmatic.
3) I believe liberty to be about operational choice, not theoretical. the libertarians I know tend to be much more about the second.
4) I do not want to lower the age of consent. This is a joke about libertarians.
"Nationalism restricts liberty. "
That's like saying "Currency restricts liberty" or "Language restricts liberty" or "Gravity restricts liberty"
No, nationalism, is not a political methodology. Don't make up definitions.
"
na·tion·al·ism
/ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."
This definition of nationalism only conflicts with liberty if you belong to that family of Libertarians who believe that national borders aren’t valid and that there’s only one global population.
Freedom of movement isn't liberty?
No, nationalism, is not a political methodology. "
I didn't say that. This has been episode 1024 in "Sarcastr0 misrepresents what was said"
But let's used the definition you cited.
"identification with one’s own nation and support for its interests"
If the nation's interests are in "Maximizing liberty for its citizens" (as it often one of the goals of a nation) then there is zero conflict between nationalism and libertarianism.
Indeed, nationalism is a tool that can be used to maximize liberty.
Again..different axes.
"[nationalism] holds that the nation should be the primary political power unit"
How is that not a statement of policymaking methodology?
You can't even keep your own statements straight. Political is not policymaking.
Educate yourself better.
Political is not policymaking
What do you think our political branches do?
You've just defined all current US political parties as "nationalist". Well done.
Because, at their core, they are. (With the exception of the anarchists, perhaps).
Got any cites for your notably useless definition of nationalism? It appears I gave your comment 12 hours ago too much credit.
I don't think you can be a modern political party without some form of nationalism, since everything you do is supposed to be for the benefit of the nation and its peoples, but there are wildly varying degrees and forms.
Exactly
‘It holds that the nation should be the primary political power unit’
That’s not what nationalism is, I think? Nationhood, maybe. Nationalism is a belief in the superiority of your own personal nation state or some alternative notional version of a nation sate that does not fit with the nation state as it currently exists. It came about in the 18-19th century when historians were sent scrabbling around looking for narratives to bolster claims of national and ethnic legitimacy and superiority, preferably by tracing some lineage back to the Romans, of whom everyone wanted to claim to be the modern representatives.
I don’t know what globalism really means any more, but up until, say, the Balkan Wars it was basically global trade and finance, usually in the form of corporations shutting down operations in western democracies and moving them to places where human and labour rights were, let’s say, underdeveloped. Ultimately this was supposed to raise all boats, and reduce the likelihood of international conflict. Two countries with MacDonalds will never go to war, or something like that. Nobody talks about it like that any more, for obvious reasons.
‘Libertarianism by contrast looks at political values of maximizing liberty’
Personal liberty, which sounds laudable, but since people live in communities and since there are massive inequalities in wealth and power, seems more like a license for the rich and powerful to fuck up communities.
Not "superiority," but "primary interests".
You're correct however that it came about in the 18th and 19th centuries. Specifically with the American and French revolutions.
Here's the issue. How do you convince a whole bunch of people to take up arms and fight for you en masse? Fighting is dangerous business...you could get killed.
I mean, perhaps some of them are personally loyal to you, because you're in their family, or tribe. Or you're paying them as mercenaries. Maybe call in some favors from other people's families. Or maybe you get a horde of peasants and round them up at gunpoint to fight for you. Not very effective.
But this concept of fighting "for a nation" is what Nationalism really is. Not just a king, not just a tribe, not just a paycheck, and not just because you're fighting because there's a gun pointed at your back if you don't.
The Nation's interests in the American (and to an extent French) revolution were about securing greater liberty for their citizens, but the concept of nationalism (and putting the nation's interests as primary interests) were how people got encouraged to actually fight. Nationalism was used as a tool to ensure greater liberty for its citizens.
That last sentence is what Somin really misses.
‘How do you convince a whole bunch of people to take up arms and fight for you en masse?’
Oddly enough, it’s never been a serious problem. Nationalism came along as modern armies became professional, so men joined up to get paid as much to serve their nation.
‘But this concept of fighting “for a nation” is what Nationalism really is.’
It often ends up with fighting, including some of the worst wars in the world, but it’s more than that.
‘Nationalism was used as a tool to ensure greater liberty for its citizens.’
Some of the citizens. Only some, even of its inhabitants. American nationalism was dfferent, of course. It wasn’t about an arbitrary set of borders people had been wandering across for millennia and a mish-mash of ethnicities all being beaten into the shape of a mighty pure-blooded peoples with a history going back to the dawn of time, it was a bunch of people coming over and taking ’empty’ land for their own. They’d be pretty keen to put the stamp of legitimacy on that with a legal system and a national government. We took it, it’s ours, all these laws we just made up say so.
Democratic representation didn’t come with nationalism, it came because colonists and settlers were only going to go along if they all got a say and some good ideas got imported from the Enlightenment. Nationalism was when Americans came to believe that democracy made the US inherently superior as a nation and as human beings.
I think Somin's right. Nationalism as its advocates define it - protectionist trade policies, active government management of the economy, etc. - is antithetical to the libertarian preference for economic liberty.
This is a clash of core values. Trying to combine the two results in something approaching incoherence.
I think Somin is wrong to suggest enforcement of immigration law clashes with libertarian principles. But advocacy for increased legal immigration to address the undersupply of skilled labor certainly isn't. So it seems to me he's mostly right on this.
Context is important—how can a country have “free trade” when China is the biggest trading partner?? And just as communists always say that true communism has never actually been tried…true neoliberalism has never been tried because the Bush family was predisposed to believing making China great again would be good for America and the world. So Clinton’s neoliberalism looked like it was succeeding but then Bush finished negotiating China into the WTO in December 2001 and everything went haywire. So had Gore won and we didn’t have a China Firster as president then maybe trade with China could have been beneficial for average Americans??
"Nationalism as its advocates define it"
It's advocates don't define it like that.
Ilya is not an American and hence can't think like an actual American. His willingness to let invaders steal from Americans is evidence that he is not an American, and that he can't think like one.
That's right, and I am beginning to think that he cannot think like a libertarian either. He claims to be for democracy and open borders, but flooding the USA with aliens who will eventually vote anti-libertarian is not a way to promote libertarianism.
They lived under, and fled from, corrupt dictatorships. You don’t think they want to live here, reatively free from corruption, so they can make a better life for themselves?
Maybe if the Republicans made inroads, pushing that stuff, they might do better. They had southern state governors who ran for president, and candidates fluent in that kind of thing, by necessity.
The fear is founded, people who come to America and eventually become voters and vote for Democrats, who in turn use that power to seek to become the corruption they fled, with fingers in everything so nobody can make a move without getting on bended knee to some official. So stop shitting on them so they flee to Democrats.
Like the Cuban-Americans did. MAGAworld insists they're all like Tony Montana, but they're actually more like Marco Rubio.
I would say that the political environment in California belies that theory.
"If you want more explanation of why GOP hopes for the Hispanic vote are a mirage, I'll leave you to read the piece Heather Mac Donald wrote on this topic following the Romney debacle in 2012. Executive summary: Hispanics don't vote Democrat because Republicans want to enforce immigration laws; they vote Democrat because they're Democrats, fond of big government funded by high taxation." (source)
Yes they've fled from the corrupt dictatorships in California, Massachusetts, Illinois, New Jersey, and New York to our relatively free states of T-jas, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida.
Trouble is they get here and want to turn our states into the shitholes they fled from.
Frank "Yankee(s) go Home!"
.
compare (source):
As to why I think libertarians are nuts to favor mass uncontrolled immigration from the Third World: I think they are nuts because their enthusiasm on this matter is suicidal to their cause. Their ideological passion is blinding them to a rather obvious fact: that libertarianism is a peculiarly American doctrine, with very little appeal to the huddled masses of the Third World. If libertarianism implies mass Third World immigration, then it is self-destroying. Libertarianism is simply not attractive either to illiterate peasants from mercantilist Latin American states, or to East Asians with traditions of imperial-bureaucratic paternalism, or to the products of Middle Eastern Muslim theocracies.
There are a number of responses a libertarian might make to that. Not included in those responses, I think, given the current state of our national affairs, is the argument that Providence has inscribed a yearning for liberty on every human heart.
This is you and Roger not thinking like an American. You bigoted fools would make us a brittle defensive monoculture.
Bigoted nativism is alas quite American.
Turning it into an orthodoxy, a test for who is a Real American? That is unamerican.
Turning country of origin into an element of who is truly your countryman? Go the fuck so Europe, if you want that. We are better than that blood and soil shit here.
To Europe? No. A few years ago I might have said that Sweden and Ireland were blood and soil countries. But no more. They have allowed themselves to be replaced by foreigners who are nothing like them. Did this make them libertarian? No, they are much less free than before.
Oh no, Roger's hatred of Jews and duskier races mean he doesn't have a homeland he can feel comfy in!
Whatever will we do?
'A few years ago I might have said that Sweden and Ireland were blood and soil countries.'
Because you're a fucking idiot.
Please do not send them here! I prefer them right where they are.
There's damn few countries that don't have strains of bigoted nativism running through their histories.
Aye, but one way in which I'm an American exceptionalist is that we by and large have no ideological or racial picture of an American Citizen. We got our issues, racial and otherwise, but I have vastly more hope for our progress than anyone else's because of that civic inclusivity.
That's why Roger and Ed are bad at being American - they take one of the main things that make us special and go directly against it.
That's certainly the competing strain of US idealism I subscribe to.
Rock on.
I do not care at all for the 'death to America (I'm being ironic!)' strain of leftist.
They should shut up and read some Frederick Douglass speeches and get to work doing something other than shitting on other people for doing more than posting on the Internet.
"I don't make things up."
" Ilya is not an American and hence can’t think like an actual American."
Can Volokh think like an actual American? (You can set aside the on-the-spectrum issues for purposes of responding.)
both libertarians and nationalists oppose government-imposed racial preferences for minorities
Though neither, especially nationalists, oppose racial preferences for majorities.
You'll notice that libertarians have never secured a single civil right or portion of liberty for an oppressed minority - nationalists of one stripe might take credit for the emanicaption of the slaves in the Civil War, but they sure fucked up what followed - and feel they can now dictate what is and is not appropriate for the protection and preservation of those rights and liberties.
Nationalism and patriotism are not interchangeable, because, even though some think so, Nationalism has created a very real force of our discontent - that of too much federal government.
Being 'one nation' is abhorrent to the Republic. Why those two were entered into the Pledge of Allegiance underscores and highlights when and where the SHTF. The entry of too many too fast in the late 1800s and on, is how Nationalism infected our Republic, and has allowed degradation and degeneracy to this country, for absorption was impossible.
To advocate for this current influx of peoples' which further reduces Liberty and Freedom is wrong, harmful, and self-defeating. It's childish to consider that more backwards people can improve the country, when the previous batches failed to understand the experiment.
Political parties and their philosophies, being national in scope do not offer any hope to what they purport to offer. Being national entities only encourages further nationalistic tendencies, and are thus self-defeating to Liberty and Freedom.
A Republic is a group of semi-independent states. A Nation is a forced hierarchical conglomeration with little cohesion because it is forced from above. Cyrus, Darius - Persia, were nations of disparate peoples forced together. Today, there's the European Union using force to cobble a nation together against valid concerns of some member states. The Soviet Union is another example. What the USA has become shocks its cohesion from the retrograde transformation further into nationalism by the federal government's expansion. And, to further this transformation is the push to allow more disparate peoples' in and require more force to keep it all together.
I acknowledge your point, even if I disagree with it, but you really shouldn’t make up your own definitions. Leave that to the Progs.
He was bood at a speech to the Libertarian convention Saturday, and Vivek was bood for pushing him. The leadership may be sellouts but not everyone is.
I predict the MAGA response will be that the convention speech had obviously been infiltrated by Antifa.
Yep. Mike Lee blamed “paid agitators”
People get upset when they realize they're losers. Thought I'd voted Libertarian when I voted for Perot in 92, but looked back and he wasn't even their candidate. And I didn't waste my vote, didn't want GHWB in there (and yes, he would have been worse than Clinton) but couldn't stomach voting for Mr. Hillary Rodman
Frank
"People get upset when they realize they're losers."
The first sentence in a summary of the Volokh Conspiracy?
At least they stick to their principles. As Trump himself said during the speech, don’t you want to win? Tired of 3% in elections?
Win? Win what? He’s still in the mode of punching the Democrats hard uber alles. Now we have a choice between people who caused inflation (which, I remind people, was partly Trump’s fault) and letting dictator tanks roll through Europe.
These are asinine choices America should not have to make.
Somin apparently has no understanding of how big a tent nationalism is. Nationalism simply states that every nation should be run according to its own particular culture. A nation who culture involves free markets, freedom of speech, etc. (begging the question of what "freedom" means) will be run according to those principles. Hayek, in fact, recognized the difference between American and European conservatism.
Nations whose cultures are authoritarian will be authoritarian. However, it could very well be that liberal democracy is not suited for them. They are not the religious and moral peoples for whom John Adams thought that the American constitution is appropriate. We see that Weimar Germany could not stop the rise of Nazism. We also see this on American campuses, liberal democracy has allowed authoritarian mobs to trample on the rights of others in the name of freedom.
In order to remain free, a country must be prepared to use illiberal means to defend itself against those who would destroy its freedom.
Nationalism simply states that every nation should be run according to its own particular culture
As opposed to?
Borderless globalism.
Setting aside how rarified the 'lets all do a borderless globalism' goal actually is in the real world,
do you think US states have their own particular culture?
A lot depends on what one means by “culture,” which has multiple rather elastic definitions, but I acknowledge that Mississippians differ from Massachusettsans.
The only thing Simon needs to understand about nationalism is that it's opposed to open borders.
Prof. Somin posts about a ton of other stuff; this betrays your obsession not his.
Washington and Madison were nationalists, as were the rest of the Framers.
Does the professor believe that the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence promote fundamentally collectivist ideas that prioritize the needs of the state over choices of individuals?
Lots of novel definitions of nationalism showing up in these comments!
https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-case-against-nationalism
At root, nationalism is an ideology of group rights that denigrates individualism in favor of an abstraction called “the nation.” Its foundational principle is that government exists primarily to protect the culture and interests of the nation, or its dominant group. This implies that government can use its authority to protect the national culture against potential dangers — including other domestic groups and the potential spread of their cultures. To promote the dominant group, government must have the power to act assertively on its behalf, which necessarily means constraining others.
Now we can all be on the same page (I joke - this protean definition of nationalism is part of the features I doubt folks on here will give up).
That is an embarrassingly tendentious definition from National Affairs. The Oxford, Brittanica, and Wiki definitions, which are generally in alignment, are far more supportable both prescriptively and descriptively.
Somin's anti-nationalism can be explained by his anti-Americanism and his background. But why would any American vote for a President who is not a nationalist? Nationalism is part of the job.
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I see your point, but what do we do with the fact that Barack Obama -- I'd say, the very opposite of a nationalist -- was twice elected president?
Heh. Bonus points for throwing in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
A libertarian/nationalist alliance makes as much sense as an Israel/Hamas alliance, which is to say ... absolutely none.
Nationalism, at its core, is about the use of government authority to protect and privilege aspects of the nation that it deems important (usually the dominant group and its culture). This is anathema to libertarianism.
True. The more groups a party strives to protect and support, the less nationalistic it is. But that's still anathema to libertarianism.
I will once again point out that we often use "nation" and "country" interchangeably in modern English, so a lot of people hear "nationalism" and think that it's not really anything different than support for one's country = patriotism. But "nation" traditionally — and thus nationalism — is not about countries. Nations were peoples — more akin to what we think of as ethnic groups. Sometimes countries and nations strongly overlapped, but often not. Thus, there's the Kurdish nation, a group of people who aren't a country, split between the countries of Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Turkey, or the Basques, split between France and Spain. On the other hand, the French or Swedish nations (to pick some examples) have their own countries. But even the countries that generally represent nations will have minority groups within them. And those minority groups will never be part of the nation. They may be citizens, they may have equal rights legally, but they are outsiders.
The same is not true of the U.S.; there is no American nation. We are a credal country, not a national one. (Of course, nationalists don't like that.)
Libertarian checklist
Choose drugs.... check
Choose sodomy... check
Choose obscenity.... check
Choose to live in a country that guards its sovereignty and historical identity....no check for you!
Your puritanism aside, what does not guarding historical identity look like?
It starts with functionally open borders.
This actually suggests your historical identity is weak-ass shit. A complete lack of confidence in an identity so fragile it has to be protected from outsiders by screaming 'open borders' at border policies that are just slightly less hostile to human rights.
Can't say it better than Nige.
Pathetic, cringing, defensiveness.
Our "historical identity" involves open borders.
Yes, prior to the creation of a welfare state that criminalized self-help law and order.
criminalized self-help law and order
The Wild West was not like it was in movies, chief.
Your insensitive slur is duly noted, you bigot.
"Nationalism is deeply antithetical to libertarianism..."
Bullshit.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2006/12/libertarianism-one-country-john-derbyshire/
You're right. The natural allies of the nationalists would be the socialists. They might call it social nationalism, or perhaps the other way around . . .
(I only read the headline, as usual with Somin posts)