The Volokh Conspiracy
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Why did President Biden invoke executive privilege over the recording of his special counter interview, but not the transcript?
"The absence of a legitimate need for the audio recordings lays bare your likely goal—to chop them up, distort them, and use them for partisan political purposes."
Special Counsel Robert Hur described President Biden as a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." The White House did not invoke executive privilege to block the release of the transcript of Hur's interview with Biden. The House Oversight and Judiciary Committees requested the audio recording of Hur's interview. Now the White House has invoked executive privilege to block the release of the audio.
White House Counsel Ed Siskel gave the House's request two-thumbs down:
The President has a duty to safeguard the integrity and independence of Executive Branch law enforcement functions and protect them from undue partisan interference that could weaken those functions in the future. As you know, the Attorney General has warned that the disclosure of materials like these audio recordings risks harming future law enforcement investigations by making it less likely that witnesses in high-profile investigations will voluntarily cooperate. In fact, even a past President and Attorney General from your own party recognized the need to protect this type of law enforcement material from disclosure.
The absence of a legitimate need for the audio recordings lays bare your likely goal—to chop them up, distort them, and use them for partisan political purposes. Demanding such sensitive and constitutionally-protected law enforcement materials from the Executive Branch because you want to manipulate them for potential political gain is inappropriate.
Siskel's letter, as well as another letter by Attorney General Garland, dances around a key issue: given that the transcript has already been released, what is the risk of releasing the audio?
Consider the difference between reading the transcript of a Supreme Court proceeding and listening to the oral argument audio. For years, the Supreme Court resisted live-streaming oral argument, or even a same-day release. Why? Several justices acknowledged they were worried that audio from the proceeding could be spliced up and used for political purposes. Fast-forward to the present day, and all of the cases are live-streamed. As far as I can tell, the fears about chopping up audio have not materialized.
Back to President Biden. The White House is clearly worried that the audio may make him sound like a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." And that audio will be mercilessly used by the Trump campaign. It is possible that future witnesses may hesitate to voluntarily participate in high-profile investigations if both the transcripts and audio are released. But in the present moment, the protection of President Biden is paramount.
I see politics on both sides. The Republicans don't actually need the audio to learn more about the investigation. They want to embarrass Biden. And the White House has no real justification to withhold the audio, other than to protect Biden from embarrassment. Once again, politics and presidential power overlap. There is nothing new under the sun.
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""The absence of a legitimate need for the audio recordings lays bare your likely goal—to chop them up, distort them, and use them for partisan political purposes.""
I mostly want audio to make sure the transcript is accurate. Otherwise I prefer transcripts.
That was my immediate thought as well, I generally hate listening to audio when a verifiable transcript is available. I am blind, my text-to-speech engine can read text enormously faster than any person can actually speak. And while there are tools that can speed audio playback, they don't do nearly as good a job at it as actual TTS.
I'm not blind, but I my hearing is lousy, I should probably bite the bullet and get a hearing aid.
I'm not, but I am a voracious reader and I find myself too easily distracted when just listening to things.
In this case I'd assume it's a matter of degree. "Well meaning elderly man" is one way to say rambles incoherently for minutes on end but smiles and laughs or there could be a few lapses in train of thought or not hearing plain questions. The transcript could elide the difference without the audio.
I agree. I hate listening to audio, which is slow and tedious, rather than reading a transcript.
Among many other things, I hate having to rewind and so on to refresh myself on something said earlier, rather than just flip back a few pages.
The only issues I see about this are:
1. Is one form more accurate - less prone to honest error - than the other? If they don't match, are we sure which is correct?
2. Is one form easier to manipulate successfully? I think audio is worse in this respect. If you publish a falsified recording it's going to take a while to get the accurate version and the manipulations, and even then it won't be easy to compare them and publicize the deviations. A transcript can be widely published easily - trivially - along with notes showing where the falsifications are.
The latter seems to be the concern expressed by Siskel.
I think it's pretty clear that text is easier to manipulate. I mean, here I am, easily creating this comment from a blank input box, what could be easier? In fact, the concern here would be that the transcript had already been manipulated before being released, that's the defensible reason for wanting the audio.
It's technically feasible to fake audio, by contrast. Not easy. It takes high end software used by somebody who's a real pro to pull it off transparently. You try asking Google Gemini to do it for you and you'll just get "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."
It’s technically feasible to fake audio, by contrast. Not easy.
Depends on what you are trying to do, doesn't it?
Easy enough to pull out a few phrases and then string them together as "an excerpt from the speech."
And I suspect the budget of a Presidential campaign, and its supporters, etc. has room to hire people who know how to even the most sophisticated manipulation.
I'm not familiar at all with how the accuracy of transcripts is protected. The (only two, thank you, Lord) times I was deposed there was a court reporter who prepared the transcript, and I was later given an opportunity to correct errors. It was a civil matter that threatened to leak over into criminal territory, which it did, to the ultimate embarrassment of the prosecutor and even the trial judge.
I doubt things are that casual when the President is being questioned.
"Easy enough to pull out a few phrases and then string them together as “an excerpt from the speech.”"
Of course, there's the transcript that's available that would show if that is what was done.
Well, we've seen the WH manipulate transcripts of Biden speeches, describing him clearly reading stage instructions from the teleprompter as being "inaudible".
Just sayin'.
I believe Robert Hur has reported to Congress and he would know if the transcripts were in error.
I am actually very sympathetic to claims of executive privilege by the president but I am wondering what the theory is here. Especially in context of the public acts private acts debate recently at the court.
Biden was interviewed by the DOJ for potential criminal acts when Biden wasn't the president, when he was Senator, VP, and a private citizen.
If he has a reasonable case that storing documents from his Senate and VP days in his garage when he was a private citizen were official acts then I'd agree with him at least those related to his term as VP are covered by executive privilege.
Not even sure that is true. The information has already been released, via the transcripts.
The only way the tapes are covering "protected information" that the transcripts don't cover is if the transcripts don't actually cover all the information.
Since this was a criminal investigation, one that is potentially related to impeachment, knowing what is missing is very important.
Politics on both sides always happens when one side does something political and the other side doesn't simply surrender. It's not the symmetry Blackman wants to pretend it is.
Huh? That sounds to me like symmetry. Or do you suppose that only one side ever "does something political" for the other side to not "simply surrender" over?
A criminal points a gun at someone to rob them. A police officer points a gun at the criminal to prevent this. I see gun use on both sides! Same, same! Perfect symmetry!
Weren't you talking about Democrats and Republicans?
As a Democrat he think's it's a good analogy.
Magister is right. This is like if I came to your house and punched you in the face, and you punched me back, and then Josh Blackman said "I see violence on both sides!" An incredibly stupid analysis.
This is Josh's lamest attempt to smear Democrats to date, and that's saying something.
Siskel's letter, as well as another letter by Attorney General Garland, dances around a key issue: given that the transcript has already been released, what is the risk of releasing the audio?
Huh? They said exactly what the risk of releasing the audio is, it's the same risk as Brett opening his front door to me: I'm gonna punch him in the face. And witnesses who are testifying to law enforcement generally don't like being punched in the face, so if they think it's a risk, they're less likely to be as forthcoming. It's very simple.
"Because it would embarrass Biden" is not a legitimate reason to defy a Congressional subpoena.
"No legitimate legislative purpose" would be, though.
Yeah, and there's no legitimate legislative purpose here, just like there wasn't for obtaining Trump's tax returns. So we've already established that a lack of legitimate legislative purpose is irrelevant, pretextual purpose is sufficient.
The House passed a bill to require release of presidential tax returns in response to the IRS failure to examine Trump's returns during his term in office (Senate Republicans blocked it). It was Trump specific in that Trump is the only serious presidential candidate who did not release tax returns, despite his promise to do so, in decades, and the tax violations of the Trump Organization have no equivalent for any other president or candidate.
Have the Republicans proposed any legislation related to retention of documents after leaving office? How would this legislation require the audio of interviews they already have the transcripts of?
"and the tax violations of the Trump Organization have no equivalent for any other president or candidate."
I missed that trial, or was it just a guilty plea?
It's really too hard to google tax violations of the Trump Organization?
"legitimate legislative purpose"
-Verifying the transcripts are accurate.
There we go.
They could be verified by sending members of Congress and staff to listen to the audio and compare to the transcript in a SCIF. The desire to "verify" the transcripts by putting out of context audio clips in campaign ads is not legitimate.
"members of Congress and staff to listen to the audio and compare to the transcript in a SCIF"
Why? It's not sensitive compartmentalized information. The transcripts have been released.
They could still be verified that way, if the purpose wasn't to find sound bites to misrepresent.
That's not for the DOJ to decide.
It's for the courts to decide, if it goes that far. Since the Republicans only want this for campaign purposes, it's going to disappear right after election day, just like the super scary disease carrying terrorist migrant caravans evaporate after each election.
No, this is more like if you came to my house and punched me in the face, and the next day I came to your house and punched YOU in the face.
I mean, Democrats swearing they weren't going to leak Trump's tax returns came first, you do remember that, don't you?
Actually, it's more like someone came to my house to punch me when I answered the door but I slammed the door before he could do so.
Brett of course has nothing but "they did it first!"; I'm only surprised that he doesn't go back to the Watergate tapes.
There is a legitimate legislative purpose in examining whether the IRS (which ultimately answers to the President) is or is not auditing the President's tax returns, and whether changes to the laws would be appropriate. There is a legitimate legislative purpose in examining whether Biden (and Pence) got a pass on having classified documents; that's why they got the transcripts and testimony from Robert Hur, which did not achieve the Republican goal to find anything to impeach Biden over that wouldn't make House Republicans look even more scummy than they already do.
Hey, what about Trump's lie that the tape of his call to Zelensky (the one he got impeached over) was released?
Does Congress have Constitutional oversight of the Executive Branch, or do they not?
Please cite the Constitutional authority held by the DOJ to defy a subpoena.
How to say, I'm completely ignorant of the history of White House Executive Privilege, as it has evolved through the 20th and 21st centuries without saying I'm completely ignorant of the history of White House Executive Privilege.
Right. It's not like they want Trump's tax returns. And don't worry. They won't be leaked. We promise!
ABC, CBS, NBC, WaPo, AP, and others also requested the audio. Are they going to "embarrass Biden"?
And here I thought the link was to Ecclesiastes.
Better yet would be a video tape if it exists.
Special Counsel Robert Hur described President Biden as a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory."
It's worth pointing out (again) that this is a mischaracterization of what Hur's report actually stated. Hur was opining on the merits of a criminal prosecution of Biden for mishandling classified documents, where he described Biden as likely to present himself (in his defense) as a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory."
Indeed, the Politico report Josh has linked in the OP is very clear that this was the context in which that statement was made, so Josh's misrepresentation of the statement here - while pedestrian within the broader scope of his oeuvre of hackery - is inexcusable.
You have made this point before, but I have not yet been convinced. Saying that Biden is an elderly man with a poor memory vs. saying that Biden would present himself as an elderly man with a poor memory is a distinction without very much of a difference.
Fair enough, you can be a moron if you like.
The distinction was not lost on Hur. That's why he offered the observation the way he did. Presenting the characterization as part of Biden's "defense strategy" allows him to put it out there while avoiding the charge that he was being partisan or unprofessional by somehow making the claim directly.
This is how lawyers skirt the rules. Same way that Trump is trying to evade the gag order in the New York trial by having his lawyers attack witness on the stand and persuading his surrogates to say what he wants to say for him. Even if it's fairly obvious to everyone that they're saying what he's telling them to say - i.e., a violation of the gag order - that puts another layer of proof and so, of process, between him and the violation.
Sounds like you're the one being a moron. Or pretending to be one.
The fact that Biden would present himself a certain way is powerful evidence that he IS a certain way. It's called circumstantial evidence.
Just like if we see someone walk into a courtroom wearing a raincoat soaked with water, we can infer it is raining outside. True, it might actually be a sunny day and the person is trying to fake us out, so he put on a raincoat, walked through an active sprinkler, and then walked into the courtoom. But that is far less likely than the obvious conclusion. (It's actually called inductive reasoning in epistemological philosophy.)
"The fact that Biden would present himself a certain way is powerful evidence that he IS a certain way. It’s called circumstantial evidence."
As it's Hur's prediction of what Biden would do if on trial, it can scarcely be called a "fact".
It's based on his observation of Biden during the interview. How Biden presented during the interview IS a fact, from which one can infer both how he would present at trial, and his true mental state.
In my first legal job, the associates loved to tell a story about a deposition that had taken place before my time. A partner was deposing a witness, who was none too happy to be there. In one answer, the witness testified:
"You lawyers are all a bunch of dogs. I need to speak to you in a language you can understand -- dog language. Ruff, Ruff, Ruff, Ruff, Ruff."
And the transcript continued like that -- all answers were "Ruff."
Now if you read that, would you think it's a fair inference that the witness was at least a bit cracked?
....No? I mean, the thinking behind his responses is patent, isn't it?
"The fact that Biden would present himself a certain way is powerful evidence that he IS a certain way. It’s called circumstantial evidence."
So you're saying that you believe the witness in your story was in fact a dog? Presenting herself as a dog, you say, is powerful evidence.
Inductive reasoning would suggest that a person who declines to testify at trial in their own defense is likely to be guilty, or at least trying to avoid giving evidence that might tend to incriminate them in the eyes of the factfinder.
Are factfinders permitted to draw that inference?
When you say, “No, because… unless…”, well, by golly, you’ve struck on why your analogy is inapposite. The evidence presented in courtrooms and inferences permitted therefrom are tightly constrained by procedure and law. We are not engaged in simple "inductive reasoning." On the stand, Biden would be well-advised to play upon common perceptions of his mental acuity in order to impress upon jurors that he lacked the requisite mens rea to commit the crime he’d theoretically be charged with. It would be a strategic decision intended to achieve a specific, procedural outcome – failure by the prosecution to carry its burden, in the judgment of the jurors.
It’s the same kind of strategic thinking that no doubt is happening, as Trump’s advisers in New York are trying to counsel him to limit his courtroom outbursts, naps, and farts.
"Inductive reasoning would suggest that a person who declines to testify at trial in their own defense is likely to be guilty, or at least trying to avoid giving evidence that might tend to incriminate them in the eyes of the factfinder."
A factfinder is permitted to draw that inference in a civil case. Jurors in criminal cases are instructed not to draw that inference.
Okay.
The fact that Biden would present himself a certain way is powerful evidence that he IS a certain way.
This sounds dubious to me.
The way the defendant presents himself is not necessarily random and so doesn't say much about the underlying facts.
Suppose I show up in a shabby suit. That might suggest I don't have much money. But if I'm trying to convince the jury I don't have much money I might choose to appear that way no matter my net worth. No information is conveyed about my wealth or lack thereof
Suppose we are arguing over whether most of the marbles in an urn are blue, or red. If I reach in blindfolded and pull out a blue marble, that's some indication most are blue. But if I just show you a blue marble that is no evidence at all.
Your suppositions are miles away from what we are talking about. The Special Counsel interviewed Biden for hours. There was no trial. Presumably, Biden was trying to put the best face forward to convince him not to prosecute.
Hur concluded that a prosecution was not warranted, because Biden would come off at trial as a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." That's not because Hur thought Biden would be faking it. It's because that's how he came off to Hur.
Now it's possible that Biden feigned being a doddering old fool to convince Hur to go easy. It's also possible that Biden rode in on a pink unicorn for the interview. Possible, but highly unlikely.
'because'
there was no evidence of a crime, or not enough to warrant prosecution. You guys always skip over that part.
That does not seem to stop such trials for Trump.
My empathy is pretty low.
Yeah, we know you're so angry at the libs you've thrown away your principles.
Tells us more how schools are bad now.
Are you attempting to argue that they are not bad?
Do tell.
This must be more of that legendary content you provide.
Our schools are not bad. People from other countries flock to them.
Our universities lead the world in science since WW2 and still do.
Our cultural exports have been dominant, worldwide, for decades.
Our sociology/economic data gathering is a worldwide model, with other countries sending delegations to shadow what we do as they try to gather their own metrics.
Our schools are in no means flawless; they are good.
Meanwhile you complain there's too many people that do school for something other than maximizing their earning potential, even as you also complain that it's OK for you to have no principles because liberals bad.
You are a stellar example of why critical thinking is something we gotta teach better.
In what conceivable way is questioning is asking question in court during the trial "evad[ing]" an order prohibiting making statement out of court? That's like accusing someone of "evading" a 65 mile an hour speed limit by driving 64.
Pedant trolls have a funny way of selectively forgetting how language works, it seems.
No, I'm genuinely curious about your thinking. I understand that having surrogates make the out of court statements for you is contrary to the spirit and possibly the letter of the order (I haven't looked at exactly what it says). But how does it or could it restrict what Trump's attorneys can do in court?
I’m not saying that anything the attorneys are doing in court is in violation of the gag order, in letter or in spirit, bud.
I am saying that the lawyers are taking the opportunity to engage in attacks of witnesses that are not necessarily relevant to Trump’s defense – much like Trump might prefer to do, on his own little social media platform, but that he is prohibited by the order from doing. Observers seem to think that performance is as much for Trump as it is for the public more broadly.
I am calling that “evading” the gag order; you are calling it “complying.” There is no real disagreement about what is happening, but rather about whether “evade” is the right term to describe it. You seem to believe that “evading” something like a gag order means finding ways to violate it that are hard to catch or demonstrate. My usage of the term is not so narrow.
Commence the competing dictionary cites, blah blah blah.
"I am calling that “evading” the gag order;"
You can CALL it anything you like. Does not make it so. Abe Lincoln had a quote about a dog and five legs that is apt.
You can CALL it anything you like.
Right, hence the parade of tiresome dictionary cites and fighting over usage that's ultimately beside the point.
The queer pursuits of small minds.
One supportable hypothesis is that as much as Trump would prefer to avoid conviction, he sabotages that with a neverending obsession on attacking his enemies (defined as anyone who won't rebroadcast his constant 2+2=5 lies). But since he doesn't dare testify under oath, he orders his lawyers to attack enemies as they testify.
They don't want to because it's contradictory to both their client's and their own interests, but do eventually... some with more enthusiasm than others, resulting in outcomes like an initial $5mil damages award being increased twice, ending at $83mil.
What a great idea! Prevent Trump's lawyers from cross examining prosecution witnesses. In the same league as preventing the GOP from naming its own members to the Jan 6 Commission. We don't want our show trials to be diminished by any kind of defense.
OK, I’ve read the thread, and I agree that we should always say that the President “presents himself” as an elderly man with a bad memory. However, I don’t believe this does him any kindness, because while being actually elderly might evoke some compassion, pretending to be elderly opens a whole new can of worms. From the frying pan to the fire.
Well I would find it a credible defense.
Saying that Biden is an elderly man with a poor memory vs. saying that Biden would present himself as an elderly man with a poor memory is a distinction without very much of a difference.
Could matter.
You generally come off as an intelligent commenter. Do you seriously think Biden is faking it? That he really is as coherent and articulate as William F. Buckley when he was 40, but plays a doddering old fool for sympathy?
I'm trying to understand what the Biden fans' theory there is. Vincent The Chin presented as non compos mentis because otherwise he would be seen as the criminally culpable head of a crime family. Is the same true of Joe Biden? What has Slow Joe supposedly decided is less appealing to the public than an elderly man with a poor memory?
Precisely.
'I’m trying to understand what the Biden fans’ theory there is'
It's the lack of evidence of any wrongdoing, which is the opposite of theoretical since there is none, with the doddering old man bit as a cosolation prize to everyone who doesn't need evidence to decide someone's guilt especially if the someone is Joe Biden.
But Hur specifically did NOT say that there was a lack of evidence of wrongdoing. In fact, he specifically said the opposite, that Biden had unambiguously shared classified information with his biographer, who didn't have a security clearance.
All Hur did was give an excuse for why Biden shouldn't be prosecuted for that.
By this metric, the Mueller Repot proves Trump is unambiguously guilty of collusion and obstruction of justice.
Mueller's report didn't look at "collusion" but it did find lots of obstruction of justice by Trump. As Mueller told Congress:
True; he specifically said that there was insufficient evidence of wrongdoing.
And then he successfully distracted most people (including, apparently, you) from noticing that by inserting gratuitous guesses about how Biden would present himself to a jury.
I'm not sure what he is supposed to be faking. As I recall, Hur made some remark, near the start about how pleased he was with Biden's cooperation in the investigation.
I don't think all the business the various soi-disant mental health experts are talking about is particularly convincing. They don't know WTF they are talking about to begin with, haven't spoken with Biden, much less examined him, and get most of their "information" from decidedly biased anti-Biden sources. I don't buy the whole thing. Getting mixed up on details of events that happened five, ten, or more years ago is not an indicator of anything other than being human, and I guess, aging.
In any case, if I wanted to honestly take mental decline into account I'd take a very close look at Trump's mental condition before attacking Biden's.
No doubt they've both experienced some cognitive decline. To suggest that Biden is a blithering fool, while Trump is as (not very) sharp as he ever was is the mark of a cultist.
To be continued
That he really is as coherent and articulate as William F. Buckley when he was 40, but plays a doddering old fool for sympathy?
Poor choice of example, IMO, since Buckley is not my idea of a great intellectual, but to address your point, of course not. How many 81- year olds, or almost-78 year olds could pass your test?
plays a doddering old fool for sympathy?
Badly begging the question here, and ignoring my point to boot.
Since Biden doesn't look at all like a "doddering old fool" to me I obviously don't think he's playing one for sympathy. He looks like one to you? I can recommend an excellent ophthamologist in our area.
Anyway, my point was an abstract one. I was only trying to point the fallacy of saying the way the defendant presents himself is necessarily evidence, because it is not a random event. It is a choice (assuming he's not in a prison uniform or something) made by the defendant. A defendant charged with bank robbery who is a retired military officer may choose to wear his uniform to court. This not evidence of anything having to do with the charges. All it means, probably, is that he thinks he will get more sympathetic treatment by playing up his military background.
Similarly, Biden looking like, in your mind, a doddering fool because he chose to, and not because he is one, is no evidence about the whole business.
No, it's a huge difference. One is an observation; the other is a prediction.
If we had the audio, we would know the truth. The DoJ is not currently known for its honesty
The White House routinely makes "corrections" in its official transcripts of the President's remarks, because he is constantly misquoting, misspeaking, and getting even simple facts wrong such as years. Just last week, the President said that the inflation rate was 9% when he came into office.
So there is ample legitimate reason to request the audio. No doubt the Republicans will try to score political points, but I, for one, would like to hear his actual words, and not the transcript which may have been "cleaned up".
You're actually accusing Special Counsel Robert Hur of doctoring the transcript?
Don’t know who did what if anything but I wouldn’t put it past this corrupt DOJ. Let’s see the evidence they want to hide.
No, not "doctoring", but "interpreting" and "cleaning up". Our President presents himself as an elderly man with a poor memory. It is not always clear what he is saying. He mumbles, halts mid-sentence, backtracks, and even at times is unintelligible.
And Special Counsel Robert Hur? What's his excuse?
It's already been established that he was willing to find an excuse to not prosecute Biden after establishing that he was guilty, so why is that such a stretch? Apparently, like Comey, he saw his job as making sure the target of his investigation got off Scott free, but couldn't quite bring himself to leave the impression they were actually innocent.
The excuse being, the lack of evidence of wrongdoing.
And again, Hur absolutely established evidence of Biden's guilt, in that Biden had clearly shared classified information with his biographer, who lacked a security clearance.
Which, yes, is a crime.
That was not actually established, Brett.
It was a handwritten recollection—like Ronald Reagan's diaries—it was OK for Biden to keep it.
It's been pointed out a thousand times, you decide what you want to believe and then you lower your bar of skepticism till something can count as evidence it's true. Over and over.
Like the conversation with his ghost writer when the corrupt reptile bragged about his illegal possession of classified material? Like the boxes of classified material he illegally collected over the years and distributed over multiple insecure areas? The snake hadn’t yet stolen the presidency. He had zero authority or claim to possess this material. That hack Hur, in his report, did not decline to prosecute for lack of evidence.
You wouldn't need to point something out a thousand times if you didn't insist on skipping over the most direct evidence each of those thousand times. We have both a transcript AND the audio of Biden fetching known-classified material and giving it to his ghost writer.
"So this was—I, early on, in ’09—I just found all the classified stuff downstairs—I wrote the President a handwritten 40-page memorandum arguing against deploying additional troops to Iraq—I mean, to Afghanistan—on the grounds that it wouldn’t matter, that the day we left would be like the day before we arrived."
The most natural interpretation of this is that Biden had just found his copy of the memo he wrote to Obama.
Hur bent over backwards to find otherwise. And it paid dividends to tools like Riva. And I guess you.
Apart from bragging to his ghost writer about his illegal possession of classified material and illegally possessing just a shit load of classified material, the big guy is perfectly innocent.
Yeah, the problem is — as is your wont — you’re lying about the facts.
EDIT: Actually, I'm being uncharitable. Your wont is simply to repeat stuff — facts and legal analysis — that you read elsewhere that you don't understand and didn't research. So you're probably not actually lying. You're just passing along others' lies.
The invocation of Executive Privilege where the transcript has already been released is frivolous, IMO.
The argument that Congress has no legitimate need is on sounder footing, but that argument has been rejected so many times that it's a loser, too.
I'm sure that the Congressional demand for the tape is every bit as legislatively justified as the need for Trump's tax returns.
And they got the tax returns, didn't they?
Other than the multitude of times the FBI/DOJ have been caught out lying vs the supposed neutrality and privacy accorded to the citizenry. At this point I assume any transcript produced by them without audio is pure fiction to push their preferred narrative.
There was a justified legislative purpose to the tax returns since they contained of important and otherwise unknown information.
These recordings have virtually no new information.
There are good reasons lawyers often insist on video depositions and not just court reporting with transcripts. And there are even better reasons that most direct examinations in court are live and not just through submission of affidavits. How a person says something, their demeanor, inflection, tone, facial expressions and body language provide almost as much information as the words themselves.
Wasn't the Access Hollywood transcript entered into evidence in Trump's first criminal trial, but not the audio tape? I wonder if they had no reason, either...
That may be the stupidest thing I’ve read in these comments and there’s a lot of competition here for that honor.
Don't worry, you're still one of the leaders!
Nice try. At least you didn’t write, “I know you are but what am I” but I suspect you were sorely tempted, because you’re an unimaginative moron.
Indeed. The only reason executive privilege would hold up, is if the tapes have information in them that transcripts have left out.
Biden can ignore the law and the Constitution.
The DOJ is on his side, so the law doesn't matter. What only matters are the politics of the law enforcers (and vote counters).
Because the drool dripping was distracting?
I hope Democrats have learned a lesson about Republicans' disdain for bipartisanship and will no longer appoint Republicans to investigative positions. Democrats appoint Republicans in sensitive political contexts. Republicans appoint Republicans in sensitive political contexts.
Similarly, I hope strong, reason-based, modern, mainstream law schools are done hiring movement conservatives for faculty positions. Affirmative action for right-wing law professors has been demonstrated to be a bad idea. Let them teach where they belong -- at Regent, Liberty, Brigham Young, Notre Dame, Ave Maria, and a few other conservative-controlled, nonsense-based,, bigotry-embracing schools.
Gads, shut the fuck up you twat.
I have to say, if the Republicans can't make some political hay out of, "The President only agreed to be interviewed about his illegal conduct because he thought no one would find out," they probably deserve to lose.
In this limited instance, your quote doesn’t quite support your position, because the information is already out. Not to say the R’s won’t try to make hay of it, because they always turn the volume on the ol’ New Holland up to 11 on everything! (film/farm mixed metaphor there)
But I see no reason for a result beyond, as always, easily convincing the already long-convinced, to no substantive consequence.
The claim of privilege is transparently bogus.
The audio transcript is infinitely more powerful than the transcript. Is this not obvious?
Now the Republicans can say, "Democrats won't even let anyone HEAR Biden because it would be so horribly embarrassing! Is that who we want running the country?" And even THAT is calculated to be infinitely less embarrassing than the actual recording.
Someone else reading snippets of the transcription in a voiceover on the political advertisement just doesn't have anywhere near the power of putting Biden right out there.
I can hardly believe I am even writing this, it's so obvious. Did you know that water is wet?!?
It’s completely obvious, the question is whether congress can demand materials for the sole purpose of sticking them in a campaign ad.
I believe the answer should be no.
Blackman is simply playing dumb as usual.
The avenue for denying Congress wouldn't be executive priv in that case, eh?
I think this is dumb.
I suspect the issue of challenging the motive of the subpoena is it's trivial for congress to create a pretext.
Executive privilege on the other hand is overpowered and is sufficient to push it till after the election.
It's problematic, but not as problematic as trying to get the audio from an interview just so you could release it campaign ads.
And honestly, I can kind of see the argument for EP. The idea of EP is the President and advisors can talk without worrying that everything they say is going to get extracted with a subpoena and then spun in the media.
You should have the same expectation when giving an interview as part of an investigation. They justifiably could have withheld the transcript under this theory, but they can also separately withhold the audio since Biden shouldn't have to worry about sounding Presidential when giving the interview.
It’s problematic, but not as problematic as trying to get the audio from an interview just so you could release it campaign ads.
Mind reading is not a legal argument.
Serious question:
You say “You should have the same expectation when giving an interview as part of an investigation.”
I would not expect that in a normal investigation the target of the investigation has any reasonable expectation that the recording will be privileged and could never become public. Am I wrong? Is there a privacy rule that generally protects investigation targets that provide voluntary interviews from having the interview tape released?
If so, I can see a justification for Biden’s position. If not, then it’s just straight BS.
That's another reason why the invocation of Executive Privilege is frivolous. This was not some cabinet member or White House staffer advising the president about policy. This was an investigation of him by a Special Counsel to see if he is a crook. The idea that EP applies there is laughable.
I thought Congress was at the apex of their power when they are investigating/legislating, and issue subpoenas to compel production of relevant materials. Am I right about that?
What's the deliberative process being protected by EP here?
You can't claim executive privilege simply because the evidence is embarrassing to Biden.
Yeah you can. That's basically the whole point of executive privilege. What do you think it's for?
Ffs, no, you can't.
Was Robert Hur a presidential aide? Was his testimony considered internal communication?
Idiocy...
Strawman argument. Please quote the Republican who had said on the record that “the sole purpose of our request for the original audio recording is so we can stick it in a campaign ad.”
What’s ironic is that you can, indeed, find a *Democrat* who says this on the record. Which implies that they certainly would do it themselves if the shoe was on the other foot and they thought it would help.
So, will there be an audio rendering of the transcript, performed by an AI impersonator?
I say No, because it would be attacked as "fake", and the followup, "Then release the real one and let us see!" and response (refusal) would be more defensible -- a thought-chain too far for the intended audience to follow.
Primarily this issue by Biden is to distract and embroil the toil to take away from his other mindless ramblings and his many mistakes as an installed illegitimate president.
Hur's characterization of Biden seems more like being nice to the old fart Biden who got 81 million votes through his "most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of the United States."
There's no legitimate reason to withhold the audio - Release the Audio ! as disgusting as they are from the mouth of a Biden.
Still working that same "voter fraud organization" lie, week after week...
I don't think Biden has much of an argument, but who can blame him for engaging in exactly the same sort of protracted lawfare as one Donald Trump? Push this thing past November, and it won't matter one way or the other.
If they won't re!ease the audio because it's so bad it would make an effective attack ad, I think that means the debates will never happen.
Yes, like many here, your statement ("The Republicans don't actually need the audio to learn more about the investigation. They want to embarrass Biden.") may be true but is certainly off the mark. We've seen what the WH does, and others do, with "official" transcripts that clearly, obviously, completely contradict words spoken by this person in public. There is no reason on God's green earth to believe the transcript they agreed to release here is accurate.
Surely it is not a leap to understand that they _only_ released the transcript _because_ they could doctor it. "Limited hangout", indeed.
They could figure out a way to verify the transcript without releasing the audio, if verification were really all the Republicans want.
Trump's Ukraine call was (supposedly) not recorded, so a "readout" from the notes taken by those listening in on the call was the best they could do. Is that what you're referring to?
This was a recorded interview. But it was recorded by the Justice Department, not the White House. What makes you think the White House prepared the transcript Special Counsel Robert Hur then spoke about under oath before Congress? Have you read them? They appear to have been transcribed by a D.C. court reporting company (it looks like at least two different transcribers worked on it). Each of the transcribers certified that it was "true and correct". Are they all part of the conspiracy with Hur and the White House, too?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/full-text-robert-hur-biden-classified-documents-interview-pdf-rcna142956
Simply compromise. The White House agrees to the release of the transcript after the election.
Ever since the original comment and the transcript, Biden supporters have been adamant that it was a mischaracterization and attack job against Biden because the transcript showed he answered normally. The audio would answer the question one way or the other -- the exact same words on a transcript can sound extremely different with tone, pauses, etc. If they don't want it released, then I can only assume it completely backs up the old man with memory problems angle.
"special counter interview"? Did they have it at the malt shop?
Transcripts can be, and were, redacted.
In February the House committees had demanded recordings and unredacted transcripts. On March 12 they received redacted transcripts and no recordings. On the 25th they wrote to Garland threatening contempt proceedings if they didn't get their original demand by April 8, and now we are here.
There is nothing illogical or mysterious about releasing redacted material while refusing to release unredacted material.
You’re reaching – It’s not difficult to redact audio recordings.
Even if there is a good justification for redacting information provided to Congress (doubtful as this is not an on-going investigation), that is not an excuse to withhold the audio.