The Volokh Conspiracy
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Trillions
Why *Build, Baby, Build* should be a top libertarian priority. First in a series of guest-blogging posts.
In 1962, the New Individualist Review featured a joke letter from Chiang Kai-shek:
I was delighted with your last issue. I can testify from bitter experience that your Dr. Rothbard is entirely correct when he demonstrates that public ownership of lighthouses is the first step on the road to communism.
The point of the joke, on my reading, was not that libertarians were wrong to favor the privatization of lighthouses, but that they should make lighthouse privatization a low priority. For two reasons:
First, lighthouses are a tiny issue in the broad scheme of things. Divided by GDP, government lighthouse funding is a rounding error.
Second, the idea that privatized lighthouses would work well is speculative. Despite past experience and technological progress, we can't confidently predict that the reform will be a resounding libertarian success story.
You just have to flip these two reasons around to figure out what libertarians should prioritize. Namely: big issues with proven free-market remedies. Which was a major motivation behind my new Build, Baby, Build: The Science and Ethics of Housing Regulation. A non-fiction graphic novel, the latest Caplan book combines words and pictures to make academic research on housing an edge-of-your-seat experience.

I gradually grokked the horror of housing regulation over the last fifteen years. Economists like Edward Glaeser and Joe Gyourko just kept publishing papers showing that government regulation has raised housing prices far above the physical cost of land and construction.
And what regulation has ruined, deregulation can repair.
It's tempting to look at America's most expensive addresses and repeat the top three principles of real estate: "location, location, location." But this glosses over the artificiality of today's locational scarcity. Since the dawn of the skyscraper, technology has allowed vast populations to simultaneously enjoy the world's top locations. The government response, in turn, has been to make building skyscrapers in desirable places nearly legally impossible.
Indeed, U.S. regulators view almost all multifamily housing with deep suspicion. That's why they zone a supermajority of residential land for single-family homes. But even the single-family supply is heavily restricted, because governments routinely set high minimum lot sizes to force builders to waste most of their land. Physically fitting six mansions on an acre is easy, but legally you're lucky to get a green light for one.
Averaging over the whole U.S., a conservative estimate is that regulation has doubled the price of housing. It's much worse in places like the Bay Area and Manhattan, and a minor issue in the countryside. But as a recent paper by Gyourko and Krimmel shows, regulation raises prices almost everywhere that lots of people actually want to reside.
Granted, if regulation doubled the price of chewing gum, it still wouldn't make sense for libertarians to prioritize the industry. The key supporting fact is that shelter is a large share of the average American's budget — around 20%. As a matter of arithmetic, then, halving the price of housing would cut the cost of living by 10%, raising the standard of living by 11%. (As you may recall, 1.0/.9≈1.11).
Even better, deregulation will deliver these gains beyond a reasonable doubt. Laissez-faire in housing is not a futurist Libertopia. A hundred years ago, U.S. housing markets were close to laissez-faire, and the least-regulated regions of the U.S. are still close to laissez-faire. Furthermore, we don't have to blithely assume vigorous competition will arise, because vigorous competition in the construction industry already exists. The total number of builders is immense, and even in our regulated world, many are champing at the bit to expand.
Indeed, the construction industry could revolutionize our lives for the better if it simply were free to deploy the technology of a century ago! Work on the Empire State Building started in 1930, and was complete just 410 days later. Imagine what industry would accomplish if we combined the light regulation of the past with the advanced technology of the present.
Almost all political thinkers like to keep up with the news cycle — to talk about the latest, most salacious topics. I've indulged this temptation myself more than once. But if your worldview has merit, you can do so much better than opine on the scandal of the century of the week. Housing deregulation realistically promises to enrich humanity by trillions of dollars. And all government has to do to make this happen is stop preventing it.
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"U.S. regulators view almost all multifamily housing with deep suspicion"
As well they should. Crime, pollution, noise all increase the more multifamily there is.
And saying "US regulators" obscures the fact that these decisions are made locally.
I live in a mostly rural CA county, in a small town with few employment prospects. The state (Democrats) want to force-feed us seven high-density projects (with the obligatory low and very low income requirements) that will clog narrow roads, burden local services, and force the new residents onto I-80 to get to jobs that are 30-45 minutes away. (Not very green of them, eh?)
In a county where no one can get fire insurance outside of the FAIR plan, where will these people find insurance? Where will the property owners get fire insurance?
There are real issues with slapping up high-density housing everywhere.
Yes, I laughed at the term "U.S. regulators."
I'm fine with making a case for deregulation. But if you take that decision away from local authorities and centralize it and the state or federal level, then you haven't truly "deregulated" anything, other than at a superficial level only. Instead, you used bigger regulation to fight smaller regulation, and in so doing created a bigger (more centralized, more dangerous, less accountable, more sweeping jurisdictional reach) regulatory power than can be turned any which way in the future.
As with the commerce clause in general, Feds will not use it for the intent, clearing away impediments between states, but for implementing their own preferences.
Here, states may clear away certain local impediments to building, but only to ram their own preferences into existence.
Allowing more building is not the same as mandating giant buildings.
Wait till you hear about all of these oppressive federal regulations called “the Bill of Rights”!
?
Can the author of the above comment (or anyone who understands the point he's making) please explain it to me?
Contrary to M L's point, protecting liberty by precluding smaller government from imposing regulations is not "bigger regulation".
You could probably write a dissertaton in topology on the novel knots that ostensibly "pro-freedom" commenters tie themselves into trying to find a way to justify their support for these regulations.
(Thank you for the explanation.)
I think that (1) ML is right, and you're wrong, and (2) ML's position does not make him "anti-freedom."
"[T]he success of the classical liberal project requires a plurality of sources of authority keeping each other in check: federalism."
source: https://www.aei.org/articles/federalism-is-a-condition-for-better-states/
How do you feel about gun control, free speech, and the right to religious exercise? What about jury trials and the warrant requirement?
I don't think it's necessarily contradiction to support local governance of zoning (or decentralization and federalism generally) while also supporting incorporation.
Zoning ordinances are traditionally local issues, and typically are so even today. Incorporation of the bill of rights is pretty new in the big picture but has been around for a while. Most conservatives embrace incorporation, though the vast majority do so completely unknowingly, being unaware of the history and not having thought through it.
A lot of things in the Bill of Rights were 'traditionally local issues.'
Were.
Zoning laws still are, at this very moment.
Mostly. But not entirely. See, e.g., RLUIPA, or Buchanan v. Warley.
I disagree. Here is the definition of regulation.
reg·u·la·tion
noun
1. a rule or directive made and maintained by an authority.
Even if a rule precludes a smaller government from imposing certain regulations, it is still a rule and therefore a regulation. It may be a good rule and it may protect liberty, but it is still a rule.
I’m not trying to justify any support for zoning regulations. I'm fine with the case for deregulation. But I consistently tend to dislike (though I do not absolutely always oppose) centralizing government powers. The issue is especially relevant when it is done for a “noble reason” or to protect liberty, because that is when major irreversible changes might be ushered in without anybody paying much attention to the long term downsides of centralizing government powers.
By that logic, a home rule provision allowing the local governments to enforce these rules is also a regulation. This seems like, generously speaking, an unhelpful taxonomy.
Ok. Setting aside the semantics - taking decisions away from local communities and putting power instead in a more centralized governmental authority, is something that liberty minded people should resist in my opinion. Even if it is enacting a "better" policy in the short term, it would be naive to think that it is not resulting in a longer term structural centralization of power that may be more dangerous long term.
In addition, while liberty minded people may have strong opinions about what constitutes "better" policy, they should leave room for tolerating regional differences of opinion, on two bases: (1) recognizing that some of it might be subjective and contextual, that they don't necessarily have an absolute universal standard of morality worked out as it if was a proven mathematical theorem, and (2) recognizing that imposing your "better" policy on others necessarily and somewhat paradoxically involves the use/implication of force - forcing liberty on people isn't always a good or viable idea.
I never said all regulations, or any particular regulations, are "oppressive." I'm not that sort of absolutist libertarian. The bill of rights of course initially only applied to the federal government. Only some 150-175 years later was it turned into a vehicle for the federal judiciary to govern the bulk of traditionally state and local matters (as described for example in the title, Government by Judiciary, by Raoul Berger).
Oppressive may be somewhat in the eye of the beholder. If the philosopher king does things that I agree with then they are not being oppressive. If not, then maybe they are being oppressive. For example, if the Second Amendment were interpreted to permit a ban on firearms other than 18th century muskets, or a ban on firearm ownership other than selectively licensed members of a "militia," then some people may view it as oppressive. If it prevents such bans, others may view that as oppressive. The detailed regulation of local school policies by federal judges via the first amendment may be viewed as oppressive by some people, either in and of itself, or depending on whether people find the particular decisions agreeable.
If we pass a law saying that women get to vote in Afghanistan and then go and enforce it, is that oppressive?
Those "real issues" are with government forcing "solution". All Caplan is saying is, "stop forcing solutions, let markets figure it out." There's a huge difference.
Removing protections of single family owners is hardly the "market" finding a solution.
Allowing otherwise willing buyers and sellers to decide how they want to use their own property is literally the market finding a solution.
The "market" includes the current legal situation. You can't "market" your way to hiring 10 year olds or only hiring whites.
So let's restore slavery and debtors' prisons.
We're supposed to keep injustice around to avoid upsetting people who have gamed the unjust system?
The missing piece is that county government is pressuring developers to accept the zoning change in order to satisfy the state. The developers aren't desirous of this--they are responding to political pressure. So it isn't really the market at work here.
Yes, but once the Libertarians flood your town with Third World migrants, you will be able to hire security guards to protect you from the increased crime. For the noise, you can get earplugs.
Crime, pollution, noise all increase the more people there are.
Good news! There are plenty of places you can live without any people around at all! And by unlocking the value of your people-adjacent land, you'll have more money to spend when you get there too.
Maybe he doesn't want to move. Just enjoy the benefit of his original bargain without government interference.
If Bubba Jones actually bargained for the right to tell his neighbors for the right to tell them how to use their property, I fully support having that enforced.
He did. The current zoning was part of the price he paid.
People pay more to live in single family areas because they don't want the crime, increased traffic and noise that comes with multi family.
The implication of your argument is that local statutes and ordinances are unalterable agreements between you and the relevant government.
That's nonsense. Laws are changed all the time, and those changes often affect people in ways they don't like.
Did the municipal government do something terrible and unfair when it decided to bar smoking in City Hall? Did it breach some contract with chain smokers who had business with the city?
Of course not. And you don't have a contract that bars the town from permitting someone to build an apartment building across the street, either.
Yes, that was the rule when you moved in. But there was also another rule that said the city was free to change that, assuming they used certain procedures. So why do you consider the rule you like as irrevocable, even though other rules say it can plainly be revoked?
Not exactly the rigorous argument you think it is.
A lot of people in (say) New York would say that the gun control was part of why they paid to live there. Why don't they get the benefit of that bargain?
Outside of the violation of the Constitution?
Some people would say "Not having (insert race here) is part of why I am here" too.
Yes, and we all agree that those expectations aren't valid, and don't have any sympathy when someone complains about losing the "benefit of the bargain". So why is it any different when someone wants to build a duplex on their own land?
Outside of the violation of the Constitution?
Begs the question. You assume that your reading is absolutely correct. Makes it easy to win arguments, I suppose.
Get rid of cars, reduce all three to nearly nothing.
Cars cause crime? That's a new one...
They get stolen a lot, and break traffic laws all the time.
We're trying to talk about policies that will improve people's lives, not make them worse.
Let's design cities so they're choked with fossil-fuel-dependant polluting noise-generating space-hogging dangerous expensive-to-buy-and-maintain-and-find-parking-for things that will mostly end up sitting in long lines of other cars for a few hours every morning and evening. It doesn't get much better than that!
Having experienced both, I can say very confidently that life with a car is much better than life without a car. Living in a city (or anywhere else) set up in a way that makes having a car feasible is, ceteris paribus, much, much more pleasant than living somewhere that isn't.
Living in a city (or anywhere else) set up in a way that makes having a car feasible is, ceteris paribus, much, much more pleasant than living somewhere that isn’t.
Living in a city (or anywhere else) set up in a way that makes getting around comfortably, feasible is, ceteris paribus, much, much more pleasant than living somewhere that isn’t.
You could substitute almost anything desirable for "having a car," and your statement would still be true. And of course the feasibilty for the individual is far from the whole story.
The fact is our society is set up in a way that not having a car is quite inconvenient. That's not going to change anytime soon. But at least recognize that there are costs, and ignored alternatives, to the designs we have.
which describes cities pretty much as well.
It's almost like they are the places where most people live and where most commerce occurs.
It's amazing what white guys in suits can tell us.
Gosh that's brilliant. Did you have a message too?
Self loathing since he is a "white guy in suit" himself.
There’s a reason why white guys (particularly sophomoric white guys like these two), whose imagination runs only towards depicting white guys, would have a knee-jerk aversion to regulation, or to government intervention in general. And there’s a reason why women and people of color have a different view of it. Can you think of why?
"Build, Baby, Build . . . top libertarian priority"
With cheap credit and fed printed money, right?
What part of deregulation requires cheap credit and fed printed money?
The part that is all about taking everyone in the world but not fixing anything in the immigration, "asylum" or welfare programs.
The tight money imbeciles heard from.
They are never far away.
The part where this argument is being made in the context of modern day US - where the current real estate system is built on a foundation of cheap credit and fed printed money.
"A hundred years ago, U.S. housing markets were close to laissez-faire, and the least-regulated regions of the U.S. are still close to laissez-faire."
A hundred years ago, major cities burned to the ground regularly. Some regulation is good, some is bad. The inability of libertarians to distinguish between these is one reason it's such a dead-end political philosophy. People don't want to live in or around unsafe shanties.
People who disdain all regulation, like people who disdain all government, aren’t “libertarians” — they’re anarchists. Big difference.
In this very piece, Caplan opined that privatizing lighthouses should be on the Libertarian to-do list, just not very high on it. The line between committed libertarian and move-to-the-other-end-of-the-bus crackpot can get quite muddy at times.
In fact, the libertarian lighthouse argument is a sham.
Go read the damn article if you don’t believe me. (It’s a pdf).
Fundamentally, all Coase was saying was that it is false that there is no role whatsoever for private enterprise in providing lighthouses. He was emphatically not saying the market would provide them in the absence of substantial government involvement, and he describes the British system, in which the government was in fact heavily involved.
Which is why the term "libertarian" is useless as a serious description of one's views unless one is, like Rothbard, or perhaps *Mises, an extreme example.
*In fact Mises and his crew seem to have regarded empirical observation as a waste. They had their axioms and, given those apparently uncontestable axioms, the deductions simply had to be true.
The cartoon is a bit confusing and lacks a denominator.
It attributes the price deltas to "regulatory tax" as opposed to the value of residential versus commercial land.
It doesn't uncover why each lot is zoned the way it is. Or what the scope of the burden is.
Nor does it explain how the regulatory tax is calculated, or whether any possible benefits are included in the calculation.
It's just unsupported rhetoric.
"That's why they zone a supermajority of residential land for single-family homes."
This might have something to do with the fact that a supermajority of people want to live in single family homes...
80 Percent of Americans Prefer Single-Family Homeownership
"Apartment and condo living is only preferred by 8 percent of the population, yet two in 10 Americans (17 percent) live in an apartment or condo."
And of the supermajority who want single family homes, the majority would prefer lower density single family homes, even if it means longer travel times to amenities:
Majority of Americans prefer a community with big houses, even if local amenities are farther away
Obviously the natural response to this is to tear down suburban neighborhoods (That people want to live in...) to build more high rise apartments. [/sarc]
But don’t you know that “single-family housing is white supremacy”?!
source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-left-urbanists-want-to-remake-your-city-11566512564
I'm sure a superdupermajority of people want to travel by private jet and commute by helicopter, but they still buy a lot of Southwest tickets and Honda Civics.
In a world of scarcity, you have to make choices about how to manage tradeoffs. The pro-freedom, individualist position is that we typically get the best results if we trust people to manage their property the way they want to and make their own decisions about how to best satisfy their preferences. The authoritarian, collectivist position is that people can't be trusted to make the right choices, and we'll get better results if the government decides for them how they should and shouldn't use their property.
Glad to know where you stand!
Single family housing is as much impeded by regulation as the urban arcologies this proposes; Zoning regulations and building codes have priced most people out of the single family house market by regulating away "starter homes". If you look at new subdivisions, they're all building McMansions on tiny lots, houses most people can't afford. The median cost of a new home has doubled in the last 30 years, in constant dollars. Incomes sure haven't! Why?
Because the zoning and building codes have sawn the first couple rungs off the ladder, mandating that the smallest home you can build is larger than most people can afford. And the developers compensate by shrinking the lots despite people actually wanting larger lots, too, because it's the only area where they're allowed to shave away costs.
But, notice that they're not trying to clear the regulatory obstacles to building more of the sort of houses most people want. They're just trying to clear away the obstacles to the sort of housing only a tiny fraction of the population prefers.
Not only did I not notice that, I noticed that Prof. Caplan specifically mentioned this as a problem in this berry post!
Importing millions of illegals has no impact on the supply?
Seems like open borders is the one thing that does away with the whole supply v demand thing.
Brett continues to be just the worst libertarian.
OK, Brett. But that's an 11-year-old survey, reported by the National Association of Realtors, with no explanation as to methods, sample size and selection, definitions - what about coops, or smaller multifamily buildings, etc.
That doesn't make the results wrong, of course, but it does give a lot of grounds for skepticism.
I have been looking for good estimates of these numbers and have had a hard time finding any.
Do you live in a coop or multifamily building?
I live in a condo I own in a 5-unit building.
My neighborhood has plenty of this sort of housing, mixed with a few larger buildings - some rental, some single-family homes.
Why do you ask?
OK, Caplan cites a 60 year old joke, a pretty good joke at the expense of libertarians actually. Caplan rewrites the joke to make a pedestrian libertarian argument and remove any humor. Then he pivots to his unrelated pet issue to push his “comic” book, which also appears to be devoid of humor. This is followed below by Somin’s long review of said graphic novel. And now we’ll see a hundred comments that government bad. Got it.
Plus, the comic book is dumb. I think I could get more insight into NYC real estate from Jughead.
For example, nobody talks about Manhattan real estate in acres -- it is all sq ft. And if they did talk acres, they'd say that $600k/acre is a rounding error. Seriously, that is less than $1.50/sq ft., assuming there were only one level, which is a bad assumption.
When all you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails. Caplan has the same issue that Somin does. The sole tool in the toolbox is a hammer so everything must be a nail.
I would argue that from a libertarian perspective where the goal is to maximize individual liberty, the ideologues "Let's force deregulation down everyones throat whether they want it or not" is just as silly as the authoritarian/grifter's "Let's centralize decisions in DC where we can keep our fingers in the purse".
The point Caplan misses is that scale matters. Things that are incredibly authoritarian or stupid at the national level may be less so at the state level. These same laws may be prudent at the local level or even stupid not to implement at the level of ones own family.
A key part of freedom is to be able to live in the manner of ones choosing and if the local community desires to have housing regulation and are offended by houses painted blue and want to outlaw blue houses, I don't see a problem with this as long as it is not applied globally. No regulation at the local or family unit level is just as stupid as the desire regulate everything at the national level.
Totally agree.
I'd add that it is not like suburban zoning rules are being ginned up out of whole cloth, and imposed against the local homeowners' wills. At least around here, the rules have been around since the 1920s, and the last major revision/update was in the '50s. Everybody has bought in knowing the restrictions. To claim that zoning takes something away from them is disingenuous at best. Rather, removing the zoning restrictions would give them something they did not bargain (or pay) for.
So by "the manner of one's choosing," you actually mean "the manner of the majority's choosing."
Nope. Granted, there are not a lot of pedantic points to quibble about here so you are a bit out of your element. As for the actual point of the argument: "scale", you utterly missed it.
Freedom is as much about the ability to exclude as much as to include. If somone wanted to live in a community of FLDS or Mennonites, it would make sense that the rules of that community would state you had to share specific beliefs. If blue really bothers me, I should be able to find a community where we all agree not to paint things blue. If I find this rule onerous, I simply won't live there. The point is this is fine at a local level where one can "opt in", but isn't going to work at a level where there is less "opt in" At a local community level "The Majority" is a personal choice.
Excluding other people from other people's property is not "freedom." It's dictatorship. My freedom to be Mennonite is not the freedom to tell other people to be Mennonite.
You make it sound like the rules were etched in stone when the community was created. In fact, the rules are malleable, and are subject to such change at the whim of the majority. You can be a blue-hater and move into a community with a "no blue houses rule," but you don't have any rights to such a rule. If a bunch of cerulean-lovers move into the community, they can abolish that rule despite your wishes.
Excluding other people from other people’s property is not “freedom.” It’s dictatorship. My freedom to be Mennonite is not the freedom to tell other people to be Mennonite.
The "It's dictatorship" part is pure drama queen. If there was a personal agreement, there is the expectation that you honestly live up to obligations that you assumed when entering the community.
That's probably a bit beyond someone like yourself. You are exactly the type of person I could see misrepresenting a purchase and then screwing over your neighbours with the words "... you don’t have any rights to such a rule". Yes, probably legal, but really not the sort of person that you would want in your community which is the whole point of attempt to enforce such a rule, to protect against people like you.
Whereas "I don't want any black people living near me on their own property" is about freedom! Of course!
There wasn't any personal agreement or obligations. Do you not understand how zoning works? It's a law, not a contract.
"Whereas “I don’t want any black people living near me on their own property” is about freedom! Of course!"
Of course you could see this one coming from a mile away. Notice the bozo addition of "on their own property" ? Wasn't in my statement was it ? Why do you think it was dishonestly added ? We have here the "but Racism!" exception to freedom.
"There wasn’t any personal agreement or obligations. Do you not understand how zoning works? It’s a law, not a contract."
You are correct in some cases. Sans contract, there is just zoning law which is the will of the local population. I am completely willing to leave the decisions to the locals in such cases. If they wish to tighten it with local contracts, I am good with that as well. It is you who is trying to self righteously proclaim that the decisions should be taken from the locals. I simply disagree with the anti-libertarian approach and find the "more libertarian by not allowing local choice" viewpoint to be utterly asinine.
Zoning laws aren't just about your own land, local choice or no.
Though even your no zoning and only contracts has a pretty bad racial history!
You can't possibly be this stupid. It was indeed in your statement. Nobody needs zoning laws to exclude any type of people (or blue houses, to speak to the other aspect of the hypo) from their own property. They just have to say "No." They only need zoning laws to exclude people or blue houses from other people's property.
To put it more plainly: if I don't want a blue house on my property, I just won't build or paint one. The entire point of zoning is to say, "Even though you want a blue house on your own property, I'm telling you that you can't have it." Which is the actual "exception to freedom."
Also, "I'm talking about Mennonites, not blacks, wink wink nudge nudge" fools nobody.
The point of being in a community is that it isn't just your property. There are some community norms and rules you need to meet. Now for the really moronic, please note this does not mean that all property is community property, When you buy property in a community and they have agreements about what you will build and do, expect to be bound by the agreements you make.
The really humorous thing about this discussion is that some form of logical consistency is really possible here and I may be unfairly maligning you. If you really are the "taxation is theft" type of libertarian and disavow all community responsibilities, you are going to be logically correct, but I would admit I find such forms of individual libertarianism limiting.
My guess however is rather than a "taxation is theft libertarian", you tend more towards the simple moron categorization. How do you feel about property taxation ? Is it theft or the "requirement to live in society" My guess is that you are totally on board with the community concept as long as it is involuntary and you are the one giving orders. So which is it, are you a purest or a moron ?
You spend a lot of time doing telepathy about DMN and not a lot of time making arguments. Probably because your arguments are more telling on yourself than convincing anyone.
Like: zoning is about community?
No, it's really not. Have you ever dealt with a zoning board? They're not exactly populists.
This is about 2 steps from 'people naturally want to live with people who look like them, and that's their rights.' My dude, there are *other people* in the mix you are pointedly ignoring, whose rights are being restricted. Apply this to blacks and you get redlining all over again.
I find myself in the embarrassing and unaccustomed position of agreeing with both Mr Nieporent and Mr/Ms/whatev Artifex.
Mr N is obviously correct as a matter of formal analysis. You're "bound" either by law - which is not a voluntary arrangement, or your own agreement, which is. The latter also includes voluntarily adhering to other people's past voluntary agreements - such as when you buy a property which is subject to covenants etc.
So we can imagine two different types of communities. The first being a political zone, established by law; the second being a voluntary commune established by a package of cross covenants between the members of the commune, all of whom are present in the commune voluntarlly.
Each community might impose identical restrictions on your use of your own property (and on other people's use of ther own property.) But in the first case, the restrictions on you are imposed by law, and not by your own choice; in the second they are voluntary.
But in practice, Mr/etc Artifex is right that communities of the second type are practicable only on a small scale, where the web of interlocking covenants is manageable. Thus once you reach a certain level of complexity (which is a function of size, but also the extent of the covenants) the second type of community - the commune - is not workable; and only the first can exist as a real object.
(To clarify, the first type - the community-by-law - can certainly be arranged to allow a mix of law and volunary covenanting. It doesn't have to be all law.)
The only way I can think of, of escaping from the embarrassment of agreeing with both sides is to note that in reality everybody agrees that there has to be some kind of regulation of land and property use, so the question is "how much and what and where ?"
I'm entirely comfortable with Caplan's conclusion at the helicopter level - that the correct answer to the question is "way less than we have now."
"I’m entirely comfortable with Caplan’s conclusion at the helicopter level – that the correct answer to the question is “way less than we have now.”"
I think you agree with me more than you know. The society I would willingly opt into would have far fewer restrictions and far fewer obligations in the form of taxes. At a global level, I do think the direction that Caplan wants to head is more healthy.
The fundamental problem is that the toolset that Caplan wants to utilize to get there has its own set of coercive difficulties and an edict from the top that you can't have zoning regulations won't accomplish the desired goal. Some zoning regulations exist because the people subject to them desire them and who am I to tell them they can't have them ?
Once again: by definition the purpose of a zoning law is to coerce those who don't desire it. There are 100 parcels of land in a particular community. If 100 of them are owned by no-blue-house proponents, then no houses will be painted blue with or without the zoning laws. If 95 of them are owned by no-blue-house proponents and 5 of them are owned by people who want blue houses, the zoning laws will not have any impact on the 95% majority, but will prevent the 5% minority from doing what they want with their own houses. Whatever that is, it damn well isn't freedom.
And the only "freedom" lost by the majority if a higher level of government forbids such zoning laws is the "freedom" to tell the minority how to live. Which is, again, not a thing.
"And the only “freedom” lost by the majority if a higher level of government forbids such zoning laws is the “freedom” to tell the minority how to live. Which is, again, not a thing."
Again, If I want to live in a suburb free of blue houses and because I can't afford to buy every house, I make a deals with like minded neighbours that houses cannot be painted blue and you come along and stop us, our freedom absolutely is being infringed.
Play pedant word games all you like about how your infringement really isn't infringement, but the truth is that self righteous busybodies such as yourself are restricting otherwise voluntary activity.
Once again: zoning is laws. Not "deals with neighbors." The federal government is not, in real life or in Caplan's hypothetical, telling you that you can't contract away your right to paint your house blue.
It's telling you that homeowner A and homeowner B can't legislate away homeowner C's right to paint his house blue.
Then you and your like-minded neighbors have made a bunch of two-party agreements, which you should adhere to.
But:
1. Since the anti-Bluist Party has no political power, its members are, and should be, unable to force its esthetic views on others. Non-anti-Bluists are not bound by anti-Bluist policies or agreements they are not party to.
2. If anti-Bluism becomes popular enough then its adherents can try to elect officials who share their views and might, subject to higher-level constraints, be able to enact anti-Bluist ordinances. I think that’s one way you keep pig farms (blue ones, anyway) out of residential neighborhoods.
More to the point, the zoning law is a covenant so that they know what to expect from their neighbours. Yes, its coercive, it is also a community agreement on how to manage the shared aspect of the neighbourhood. They even have a mechanism to change if the majority doesn’t like them. Zoning serves a useful purpose.
Exactly what is not needed is some dipshit lawyer telling everyone: “Sucks to be you, but I can make millions by violating the terms of the covenant”. As I noted earlier, simply the viewpoint of a narcissistic asshole.
The terms of a "covenant" which isn't a covenant because I never agreed to it in the first place.
They even have a mechanism to change if the majority doesn’t like them.
That mechanism being what, a change in the relevant laws?
Deregulation is the absence of rules, and talking about forcing the absence of rules down people's throats makes no sense.
"Deregulation is the absence of rules, and talking about forcing the absence of rules down people’s throats makes no sense."
Trust the pedant to try to play games with the definition of "regulation". You truly have the soul of a lawyer. Fine, we can support your version of deregulation by having deregulated rules at the federal level and an absolute absence of anything discussing local housing requirements in any federal document. Happy ?
DN is the kind of dishonest POS that only sees obstacles to his totalitarian POV as wrong, anything that supports it is of course good common sense law and only extremists would oppose him in his leftist extremism.
Nothing says “totalitarian” like… wanting people to be able to build the kind of building they want on their own property!
In the absence of rules, you can force anything you want down someone's throat if you're stronger, richer or in a bigger gang.
This is quite the turnabout for the people for whom 'rules' have been sacred binding laws for the last few weeks.
Now do guns, churches, and hate speech!
What is your point ? Guns, churches and hate speech all follow the same pattern as well, don't they ?
It is harmful and stupid to regulate any of these at the Federal level. It is likely bad to regulate these at the state level, though historically some of these actually have been regulated (churches). At the community level, it could be completely reasonable to apply some regulation and at the family level it is vital to regulate all of them unless you are good with your kids packing guns, joining the Moonies and cursing at the top of their lungs. My family has fairly authoritarian rules, perhaps yours does not.
The point is that the rules for my family would be downright stupid to apply at the Federal level, but locally, they do a good job of what they were designed to do.
His point is that by the definition some people here are proposing, these are already regulated at the federal level: the first amendment, preventing states from infringing on religious liberty and free speech, and the second amendment, protecting the RKBA, are "regulations" by that definition.
But nobody would apply that definition because it's really dumb. "States/cities may not restrict speech" is not a "regulation." And "states/cities may not prevent property owners from building the kind of housing they want" is not a "regulation."
My point is precisely that they don’t follow anything like the same pattern. On the contrary, when people want to “live in the manner of ones choosing" by living in a city the bans guns, or churches, or offensive speech, you have no problem telling them that they can’t do that. Likewise if they want to live in manner that involves more efficient law enforcement, who can search houses without warrants or punish criminals without trials. It’s only when we get to people building things on their property that you don’t like that suddenly it all becomes more complicated.
"On the contrary, when people want to “live in the manner of ones choosing” by living in a city the bans guns, or churches, or offensive speech, you have no problem telling them that they can’t do that."
Ahhh, you have your Sarcastro style telepathy working there I see. As a matter of fact, if you actually read what I wrote. In some cases, depending on the scale. I don’t have a problem with regulation of guns, churches or speech.
"It’s only when we get to people building things on their property that you don’t like that suddenly it all becomes more complicated."
I suppose that is an easy conclusion to reach when one lacks any form of reading comprehension.
Gotta love those exceptions to freedom!
The desire to be a member of a community or family unit, necessarily limits your personal freedom. This maybe a difficult concept for a pedant moron to grasp, but many people do willingly abridge their personally freedoms for membership in more restrictive groups.
It comes down to the choice. Many things that would be coercive if imposed are not when they require honest opt in.
"Guns, churches and hate speech all follow the same pattern as well, don’t they ?"
Last time I looked, guns, (Arms, rather.) churches, and speech were all specifically called out in the highest law of the land, for special treatment. Any time you want to change that, I direct your attention to Article V; Go for it!
I don't disagree. The federal government is clearly prohibited from placing restrictions on arms, churches and speech. Post incorporation, for better or worse, the states are also prohibited from these restrictions. I would go further and argue that the federal government is incapable of passing laws on local zoning since powers not called out are reserved to the states, but that is probably an unpopular argument post New Deal.
My point was more philosophical and less legal. Things that would be seen as onerous restrictions at the federal level might be quite reasonable at the local community level. I would never want to live under a socialist system, but I am also completely supportive of individuals who might opt into a Kibbutz. At a philosophical level I would have no problems with small communities that had "no gun" provisions, avoidance of specific speech, or specific religious requirements and contrary to the opinion of some goofy individuals allowing folks to live in the fashion they choose is in fact what freedom is all about.
Again: you're saying that so-called "communities" should be entitled to forbid folks from living in the fashion they choose.
Scenario #1: I want to own a gun. My "community" says no. My freedom has been infringed. I'm not allowed to "live in the fashion I choose."
Scenario #2: I want to own a gun. I am able to do so because the 2A prevents any level of government, from federal to "community," from forbidding that. My freedom is secured, and nobody else's freedom has been infringed.
"Again: you’re saying that so-called “communities” should be entitled to forbid folks from living in the fashion they choose."
Yes, is this really so hard to understand ? If I am a member of a community, I abide by their rules.
If I live with radical Quakers, I voluntarily give up my 2nd amendment rights and don't own guns.
If I am a Hutterite, I don't own personal property and go to a specific church on Sundays.
The actual choice is do I conform to the group to meet a set of group norms or do I go somewhere else. If I want to own a gun and it is important to me, I won't be joining the radical Quakers. Your viewpoint is simply narcissistic. You want to join the group, but it is all about you and you want them to conform to you, not the other way around. A fine progressive viewpoint !
If I live with Hutterites, I give up my right to own property and am required to go to a specific church on Sunday.
I can always go elsewhere and be a member of a different group if I don't like it.
This is the difference between libertarians and conservatives I think. For the conservative, the extent to which the “majority rules” is on a spectrum from the individual, to the neighborhood, to the city, to the state, and finally to the nation. What might be tyrannical at the national level is acceptable at the neighborhood level. For libertarians, it seems things are more binary - there is society and the individual. They seem unable to comprehend that they are banning voluntary communities and thus restricting the freedom of those that would like to live a particular way.
I'm no bright line no zoning guy like DMN, but don't pretend this is some nuanced view by the pro-zoning folks.
The issue with this sliding scale you claim is that it’s not some freedom-based principles of procedure.
It’s just getting as many bites of the apple as possible to instantiate what they want to instantiate.
And in the case of zoning, it’s quite an indictment of the conservative project.
The ends they’re aiming for in these threads are fighting for upper middle class and higher use of space, and if that economically locks out a huge swath of the population, that’s the system working as intended.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
You are reifying the concept of community.
If a Quaker chooses to own a gun,¹ the only thing the other Quakers can do is shun him. They can't fine him or throw him in jail. That's an actual voluntary relationship. Totally different from what you are discussing.
¹While Quakers are pacifists, I don't think their religious tenets actually forbid gun ownership, e.g., for hunting. But we'll assume otherwise for the sake of this discussion.
No, I don't want to join a group. And I don't want anyone to conform to me; I want them to leave me alone.
a conservative estimate is that regulation has doubled the price of housing. It's much worse in places like the Bay Area and Manhattan,
Gee, maybe if we could get people in Manhattan out of their single-family homes on acre lots and into coops, condos, and rental apartments.
Would that help?
Generally, rich people or rich faceless legal entities swooping in and buying everything up tends to send prices skyward, and I bet they have loadsa influence over planning and zoning to keep them that way because property values dontchaknow. But that's just the experience of people trying to find houses they can afford somwhere near where they work or their family, they don't matter.
If that was the economist Murray Rothbard, a buddy of Ron Paul, Rand Paul's father, he should be remembered as the hateful antisemite he was. (And yes, he was Jewish, in the manner of Otto Weininger, making him all that more a pathological case.)
What's missing is a discussion of winners and losers. The argument is that getting rid of regulation will result in a great increase in housing supply at substantially lower cost. Assuming arguendo the deregulation argument is overall correct, the individual impact of that change in cost and wealth isn't discussed or appreciated. It's not a win-win.
Those who own housing or land now, which includes zillions of boomers who are old or getting there quickly, would be greatly impoverished by housing deregulation, meaning their net worth would on average take a very big hit (for lots of people the equity in their housing is a big part of their total net worth), and a big source of funding for their old age would greatly diminished if the value of their housing diminished greatly. What's good for would-be buyers in a deregulated environment would be bad for all the current lucky winners. Deregulation, whether overall virtuous or not, is not a win-win process. Which side are you on?