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Judge Says Alabama Can't Punish Helping People Go to Other States to Get Abortions
"[T]his case is simply about whether a State may prevent people within its borders from going to another State, and from assisting others in going to another State, to engage in lawful conduct there."
From today's opinion by Judge Myron Thompson (M.D. Ala.) in Yellowhammer Fund v. Attorney General; he is denying the defendant's motion to dismiss, rather than issuing an injunction, but in the process he expresses definite views about the unconstitutionality of the Alabama AG's actions:
At its core, this case is simply about whether a State may prevent people within its borders from going to another State, and from assisting others in going to another State, to engage in lawful conduct there.
In Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Org., the United States Supreme Court held that the U.S. Constitution no longer protects a right to abortion, allowing States to regulate and restrict abortions before viability. In Alabama, it is now a felony for anyone to perform or attempt to perform an abortion absent a medical emergency….
Although the plaintiffs may no longer legally coordinate abortions in Alabama, they wish to help the people they serve access abortions in States where such abortions are lawful. The plaintiffs have not done so because Alabama's Attorney General, defendant Steve Marshall, has threatened to prosecute anyone who helps arrange abortions in other States. The Attorney General has publicly declared that Alabama law prohibits anyone from assisting or otherwise facilitating an out-of-state act that, if performed in Alabama, would constitute a crime, including performing or attempting to perform abortions. The plaintiffs would all resume providing assistance to people seeking abortions if not for the Attorney General's threats….
The judge concluded that the threatened prosecutions would violate the right to travel:
[Plaintiffs' right to travel claim] will not be dismissed because (a) the right to travel includes the right both to move physically between States and to do what is lawful in those States, and (b) prosecuting those who facilitate lawful out-of-state abortions, as the Attorney General threatens to do, would violate that right….
And the judge also agreed with plaintiffs that "enforcing the Attorney General's reading of Alabama's criminal laws, including those punishing inchoate offenses and codifying accomplice liability, would violate the freedom of speech":
Relying on the First Amendment, the plaintiffs contend that the Attorney General cannot prosecute or threaten to prosecute those who help others obtain lawful out-of-state abortions for inchoate crimes, such as conspiracy and solicitation, as accomplices, or otherwise. They submit that Alabama's criminal laws cannot authorize the Attorney General to act on his threats without creating an unconstitutional content-based restriction on speech, at least as applied to the speech they and their staff wish to engage in: informing their clients about the laws of other States, offering counseling services about treatment options outside Alabama, and providing material support to clients seeking abortions in States where they are lawful.
"[A]s a general matter, 'the First Amendment means that government has no power to restrict expression because of its message, its ideas, its subject matter, or its content.'" Content-based restrictions on speech are ordinarily subject to strict scrutiny. A law is content-based if it "applies to particular speech because of the topic discussed or the idea or message expressed."
There are a few "narrowly limited classes of speech" that the government may regulate without having to satisfy strict scrutiny. These categories include obscenity, defamation, fraud, incitement, and, most relevant here, speech integral to unlawful conduct. The Supreme Court has described these categories as "historic and traditional" because regulations of the speech they encompass "have never been thought to raise any Constitutional problem."
The Attorney General contends that insofar as the Alabama statutes at issue regulate speech, they reach only speech integral to unlawful conduct and need not satisfy strict scrutiny. He concedes that Alabama's criminal laws impose a content-based restriction on speech. "[T]he content of [the] speech," he explains, is what "causes a crime."
He does not dispute that providing abortion-related services would require the plaintiffs and their staff to engage in speech, either in the form of pure speech or expressive conduct, or that his threats have chilled that speech. Nonetheless, in his view, the Alabama statutes are exempt from strict scrutiny "because the First Amendment does not protect criminal activity."
The exception to strict scrutiny for speech integral to unlawful conduct comes from Giboney v. Empire Storage & Ice Co. (1949). There, the Supreme Court observed "that the constitutional freedom for speech … [does not] extend[] its immunity to speech or writing used as an integral part of conduct in violation of a valid criminal statute." The Attorney General casts his motion to dismiss as a straightforward application of Giboney: Alabama law prohibits most abortions within its borders, and so any agreement, encouragement, or assistance to do what Alabama has outlawed is criminally actionable, even if the agreement, encouragement, or assistance occurs through speech.
Simple as this argument seems, it ignores the issue at the heart of this case: that the plaintiffs and their staff wish to help their clients access abortions in States where abortions are lawful. The Attorney General has not identified any instance of Giboney being held to authorize a prosecution for steps taken inside one State toward an act that would be permitted, or even legally protected, in another. The question the court must confront is whether Giboney's exception to strict scrutiny for content-based restrictions on speech can accommodate these novel circumstances.
It bears repeating that Giboney represents a "narrowly limited" exception to the general rule that content-based restrictions on speech must satisfy strict scrutiny. The categories of regulation exempt from strict scrutiny are narrow largely because even speech related to unlawful conduct can have constitutional value, including the potential to inform, critique, entertain, and otherwise enrich the "interchange of ideas."
Against this backdrop, the Attorney General urges the court to extend Giboney's immunity into new terrain: efforts to perform acts that would be unlawful in the State where they are planned but lawful (and potentially even constitutionally protected) in the State where they would occur. The court cannot accept the Attorney General's expansive interpretation of Giboney, which would have dangerous consequences for the freedom of expression.
The Attorney General's reading of Giboney would enable him to regulate conduct that he lacks the authority to prosecute directly by burdening speech. Alabama's criminal jurisdiction does not reach beyond its borders, and it cannot pass a statute explicitly punishing what its residents do in another State: "[A]n act done within the territorial limits of [one state], under authority and license from that state, … cannot be prosecuted and punished by [another state]." Unable to proscribe out-of-state abortions, the Attorney General interprets state law as punishing the speech necessary to obtain them. Giboney, however, is intended only to recognize a narrow and well-established class of speech that governments have historically regulated, not as a tool to reach regulatory ends that the Constitution otherwise prohibits governments from realizing.
For the Giboney exception to have tractable limits, the speech at issue must bear some relation to an independently unlawful course of conduct. Giboney "can't justify treating speech as 'integral to illegal conduct' simply because the speech is illegal under the law that is being challenged." In other words, the speech being proscribed must be "causally linked to a particular crime, a crime that does not itself consist of otherwise protected speech." Were the doctrine otherwise, any criminally prohibited speech would be integral to unlawful conduct, and any statute punishing that speech would be immune from strict scrutiny. Indeed, that is the very logic the Attorney General advances here. He contends that the Alabama statutes can withstand the plaintiffs' as-applied challenge because the speech they and their staff wish to engage in would be integral to unlawful conduct, but their speech would be integral to unlawful conduct only because the Alabama statutes, as interpreted by the Attorney General, make their speech unlawful. Such circular reasoning quickly spins out of control.
Put another way, the Attorney General's reading of Giboney would render meaningless the requirement that the speech being regulated be integral to unlawful conduct. Without a separate course of unlawful conduct that the plaintiffs' and their staff's speech would further, the only 'conduct' that could be the basis of the Attorney General's threatened prosecutions would be speech that Alabama regards as politically unpopular and morally disfavored. The First Amendment does not tolerate that result, as the freedom of speech is meant to prevent the government from "suppress[ing] unpopular ideas or information." Giboney therefore cannot exempt the Attorney General's threatened enforcement of the Alabama statutes from strict scrutiny.
The Attorney General protests that at least two federal statutes punish conspiracies to commit acts that are not unlawful insofar as they are not separately codified as crimes, and courts have long assumed that both statutes fall within the Giboney exception to strict scrutiny. According to the Attorney General, if those statutes are constitutional, he can likewise prosecute speech integral to conduct that is not independently illegal. The first statute the Attorney General invokes is Section 1 of the Sherman Act, which bars any "contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce." Under Section 1, acts undertaken by one market participant may be perfectly legal, but an agreement to perform the same acts by a conglomerate of market participants can be a punishable offense. Courts have not subjected this provision to strict scrutiny.
The second statute cited by the Attorney General is the federal conspiracy statute, which outlaws conspiracies to "defraud the United States." The constitutionality of the federal conspiracy statute has not been seriously questioned, even though no law separately makes defrauding the United States an unlawful object.
The Attorney General's reliance on the Sherman Act and the federal conspiracy statute misses a critical point: neither law contemplates agreements to perform acts that some States deem worthy of affirmative legal protections. Conspiring to restrain trade and conspiring to defraud the United States may not be explicitly prohibited in the U.S. Code, but the Attorney General would be hard-pressed to argue that either act involves 'lawful' conduct in any meaningful sense of the term. The lawfulness of abortion, on the other hand, varies by State and gestational age. Some States regard the freedom to terminate a pregnancy as so sacred that the liberty interest is protected in their constitutions. Defrauding the United States and restraining trade, which no State affirmatively permits, are fundamentally unlike abortions and the patchwork of legal protections nationwide surrounding them.
Another noteworthy distinction is that Congress has the constitutional authority to criminalize the acts of restraining trade and defrauding the United States. In fact, Section 2 of the Sherman Act punishes unilateral restraints on trade, making it a felony for anyone "to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States." Similarly, courts have interpreted the federal conspiracy statute to reach agreements to bribe government officials, steal money or property from the government, and make false statements to the government, all of which Congress can and has separately prohibited. By contrast, the Constitution forbids Alabama from prosecuting people for engaging in lawful out-of-state conduct. Neither the Sherman Act nor the federal conspiracy statute represents an attempt by Congress to accomplish indirectly what it cannot do through direct legislation, as the plaintiffs allege the Attorney General is attempting to do here.
The Attorney General also insists that Alabama has the authority to regulate professional speech under lesser constitutional scrutiny, including speech about medical practices such as abortions. But the Supreme Court "has not recognized 'professional speech' as a separate category of speech." Nat'l Inst. of Fam. & Life Advocs. v. Becerra (2018). Perhaps for this reason, the Attorney General abandons this argument in his reply brief.
Having established that the Attorney General's attempt to invoke Giboney is unavailing, the court turns to whether the plaintiffs have stated a viable First Amendment claim, taking the factual allegations in their complaints as true. The plaintiffs submit that the State plans to initiate a prosecution under Alabama's statutes punishing conspiracy, complicity, solicitation, and other crimes based on the content of the speech they and their staff wish to engage in about out-of-state abortions. "[C]ontent-based speech regulations face 'strict scrutiny,' the requirement that the government use the least restrictive means of advancing a compelling government interest."
The Attorney General does not argue that his threatened prosecutions can satisfy strict scrutiny. He has presented no other reason to dismiss the plaintiffs' First Amendment claim besides his attempt to invoke the Giboney exception, which, as stated, does not extend to speech in furtherance of lawful out-of-state conduct. His motion to dismiss the as-applied First Amendment challenge will therefore be denied….
I think the First Amendment analysis is generally correct as to the conclusion that "the Attorney General cannot constitutionally prosecute people for providing information [or] counseling" about how to obtain abortions in other states where they are lawful. I'm skeptical that the First Amendment (as opposed to the recipients' right to travel) protects providing "material support" in the form of, say, money to pay for a trip, but the court doesn't seem to discuss that question separately.
The judge also "reserve[d] judgment" on the question whether the "threatened prosecutions would amount to an extraterritorial application of Alabama's abortion restrictions in violation of the Due Process Clause and the constitutional principles of sovereignty and comity," and rejected the argument that the government's interpretation of Alabama law didn't "provide fair warning" of possible prosecution. And the judge concluded:
This case is simply about how a State may not prevent people within its borders from going to another State, and from assisting others in going to another State, to engage in lawful conduct there. Alabama can no more restrict people from going to, say, California to engage in what is lawful there than California can restrict people from coming to Alabama to do what is lawful here. In this sense, the case is not an "especially difficult call." Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Org. (2022) (Kavanaugh, J., concurring)….
If you're interested in Giboney and the "speech integral to unlawful conduct" exception, I have a pretty detailed analysis of it here.
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meanwhile, in Texas:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-man-legal-action-abortion-colorado-b2539361.html
Question.
Does prosecuting someone for taking a minor in to another state where that person is not considered a minor, to have sex with that person where it is locally legal, violate the right to travel? What about prostitution?
If not , what distinguishes these hypotheticals from this case?
I’m guessing that minor status makes the situation complex in a way that makes it a bad comparison.
Federal laws governing your hypothetical, and the supremacy clause.
I also imagine that in your scenario, the adult might be breaking federal laws against the trafficking of minors that supersede state laws. Not sure though.
We can easily find a scenario where that response becomes irrelevant.
1. Suppose federal law doesn’t apply or a state’s law is stricter.
2. What about foreign countries whose laws are more permissive? Why should federal law restrict people from travelling there? Usually the reason for restricting travel is foreign policy conflicts, sanctions, and similar. But no conflict with a foreign country occurs when people go there to do something legal in that country. Nor are we sanctioning that country. We’re simply enforcing our own morality on our citizens, exactly what Alabama seeks to do. Why doesn’t doing that extra-territorially violate people’s right to travel?
There's no constitutional right to travel internationally, and also the extent to which federal law applies internationally is a diplomatic, not legal, matter.
ReaderY's hypothetical first hypothetical (travel for sexual activity legal in the destintation) wouldn't appear to violate federal law, whle the second (travel for prostitution) would (not that it's legal for minors to engage in prostitution anywhere in the U.S.). Which of those do you think Alabama can criminalize as well?
aborton fanatics will argue that there must be funds so that those who can't afford the travel can more easlly kill their baby --- in the interest of fairness, of course. Nothing for decades on how to help the woman being coerced, who needs 'feminist' help to keep the baby she wants.
Stupid woman don't see the male part in this. And withe mifepristone available by male you know males will be abortion females and the woman may never know.
If you live in Alabama, do NOT talk to anyone about traveling to Colorado to get that that sticky-icky recreational marijuana. Alabama AG gonna get you.
If you live in Utah, do not talk about traveling to a neighboring state to get beer that is over 3.2%!
(older instance of the same issue ... I have a strong memory of my dad and his college friend driving us out of UT to get real beer, sometime when I was around 10. I was absolutely gobsmacked by how amazing the mountains were as we left Salt Lake City. Mid/late 1970s.)
How dare they try to arrest people who flee!
(You shits want an exit tax from California.)
But...
Shits
But...
Shits
The correct answer is nobody has any business stopping, or hampering, people from leaving for other states.
That has been false for a LONG time.
"relying on the Privileges and Immunities Clause to safeguard abortion travel is that the clause provides minimal protections against a state’s effort to regulate the travel of its own citizens. Legal cases concerning the Privileges and Immunities Clause focus on laws enacted by the destination state, rather than the home state of the travelers."
How about a tax -- say $5,479.51 which is what the $300 NFA tax would be in today;s money.
I think the First Amendment analysis is generally correct as to the conclusion that "the Attorney General cannot constitutionally prosecute people for providing information [or] counseling" about how to obtain abortions in other states where they are lawful.
In 2004, Hawaii passed a law making "promotion of travel for prostitution" a felony:
Haw. Rev. Stat. 712-1208
The states of Missouri, Virginia, Washington, and Tennessee have since passed similar laws using virtually the same language. If Prof. Volokh's analysis is correct, then all these laws violate the First Amendment, as would North Carolina's similar statute banning "promoting travel for unlawful sexual conduct".
It may violate 1A if and as applied to travel to a state where prostitution is legal, unless the prosecution can show they intended to engage in illegal prostitution specifically (for example, made arrangements for work without seeking licensure). In almost all applications, however, the "legal activity" thing would obviate such claims.
The Hawaii statute involves the sale, in Hawaii, of travel services for the purposes of engaging in prostitution. I think for the law to pass muster, it would have to be more than buying an airline ticket to go to wherever in Nevada prostitution is legal.
A travel agency couldn't have a "best little whorehouse in Reno" package. But a fraternity could organize a trip with that name and provide the transportation as long as they weren't selling tickets. As I understand the statute based just on the plain language you quoted.
In other words, the commercial transaction makes it different. (I'm definitely open to argument that that isn't enough, but it is reaching a business practice and financial transaction in Hawaii rather than merely speech. Not unlike the whole basis behind treating prostitution different than casual sex. The commercial transaction is the hook.) In other words, the Hawaii statute regulates in-state acts rather than, as the Alabama AG admitted, trying to limit state residents' freedom of travel for the purpose of preventing out-of-state acts that are legal in the other state.
The Supreme Court, in an adultery case in the 1920s, said as a matter of statutory interpretation that under the Mann Act, it has to he a principle purpose, not just an incidental purpose.
But such a standard would seem not difficult to meet here, if the standards used in Mann Act prosecutions today are applied. The principal purpose standard in practice means one had the purpose in mind when one planned the trip. It seems unlikely people would take a trip to Colorado under these circumstances and then incidentally decide to get an abortion while there.
The Mann Act is a federal statute. I'm pretty sure the implied question was, assuming the Hawaii law (and similar laws) didn't just duplicate the Mann Act, does the Hawaii law also violate the First Amendment in the same way as the Alabama law?
The answer to that question is, again, the Hawaii law applies to commercial transactions with a specific purpose, whereas the Alabama law applies to any speech, commercial or not, as well as providing free services rather than paid travel.
So, no, the primary purpose test isn't the issue. Even limited to the primary purpose, the Alabama statute is different than the Hawaii (and Virginia, etc.) statutes and fails for a number of reasons.
As the judge rightly said, this just isn't a hard case.
That Hawaii statute, as quoted, bans a commercial transaction, not speech per se. There still may be issues, I suppose, but I don't think the 1A would be one of them.
relying on the Privileges and Immunities Clause to safeguard abortion travel is [ useless in ] that the clause provides minimal protections against a state’s effort to regulate the travel of its own citizens. Legal cases concerning the Privileges and Immunities Clause focus on laws enacted by the destination state, rather than the home state of the travelers.
So would this mean that Judge Merchan's gag order would only apply to Trump while he's in New York State ?
If he pops over to Jersey to sound off he's OK ?
He has jurisdiction over Trump as a litigant before his court. Not a good analogy. The legal and conceptual issues are entirely different.
Courts in criminal trials may, of course, restrict people's travel out of the state or even, of course, out of the city/county.
He has jurisdiction over Trump as a litigant before his court. Not a good analogy. The legal and conceptual issues are entirely different.
OK, explain why. He's a judge with authority granted by the state of New York, not New Jersey. How does he acquire any authority to direct what somebody does in New Jersey ? And why would he be in a different position to the New York legislature making laws that apply to New Yorkers when they're in New Jersey ?
If it's OK for a NY judge to punish a litigant for what he did in Jersey, when he gets back to New York, why is it not OK for the NY legislature to prescribe punishment for a New Yorker who does something in Jersey, when he gets back to New York ?
What's the magic sauce that gives a NY judge authority over acts in Jersey, but denies the NY legislature the same ? That it's a litigant ? Why would that make a difference ? Litigants are supposed to be regarded as innocent until proved guilty, just like everybody else. Why does the judicial power extend out of state, but not the legislative ?
Courts in criminal trials may, of course, restrict people’s travel out of the state or even, of course, out of the city/county.
No doubt, but that's a different issue. The travel begins in the state in which the judge has authority. it's not an out of state happening.
“What’s the magic sauce that gives a NY judge authority over acts in Jersey, but denies the NY legislature the same ? That it’s a litigant ? Why would that make a difference ? Litigants are supposed to be regarded as innocent until proved guilty, just like everybody else. Why does the judicial power extend out of state, but not the legislative ?”
My background is civil rather than criminal law, but I do think you’ve identified the distinction — it’s a litigant. Roughly speaking I’d say judges have certain powers over litigants that legislators don’t have because, among other things, it's necessary for a trial to proceed, there are also certain procedural safeguards that bind judges, plus judges don’t have control over as many people as legislatures do.
As for why a court has any power to issue a gag order upon an unconvicted defendant, that’s beyond my knowledge except I’d note that’s not the only power that courts have over unconvicted defendants…see pretrial imprisonment.
You also asked why the judge’s authority to restrict travel out of state, is relevant to the power to enforce a gag order out of state. If a judge has authority to forbid leaving the state, doesn’t this suggest the judge has authority to set some conditions upon leaving the state, such as “don’t violate the gag order just because you’re across state lines”?
You also asked why the judge’s authority to restrict travel out of state, is relevant to the power to enforce a gag order out of state.
Actually I didn’t. I said that because every journey out of state begins with a single step inside the state, the judge’s authority to prevent that first step involves no question of imposing his authority on activity out of state.
If a judge has authority to forbid leaving the state, doesn’t this suggest the judge has authority to set some conditions upon leaving the state, such as “don’t violate the gag order just because you’re across state lines”?
No, because preventing travel out of state applies to in-state behavior (setting off from within the state) while imposing conditions on what you do once you’re out of state applies to out-of-state behavior.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not recommending that Trump try this because I'm sure the judge would be delighted confine him with the NY borders 🙂
States can proscribe and punish behavior committed out-of-state that is directed at/has effects within their borders. Otherwise one couldn't sue an out-of-state party, and a state couldn't prosecute an out-of-state defendant for defrauding residents of the state. Which one can, and which a state can.
The gag order here covers behavior by Trump that is directed at the integrity of the trial that is taking place in NY. If it purported to restrict Trump's speech with respect to the DC/FL/GA trials, your argument would have force. But it's only about the NY trial.
States can proscribe and punish behavior committed out-of-state that is directed at/has effects within their borders.
But that's precisely the point at issue in this Alabama case. The behavior commited out-of-state has effects within the state's borders. The Alabama baby doesn't get born (thereby sucking revenue from Alabama doctors), it does not attend Alabama schools, it pays no Alabama taxes, it breeds no Alabama hogs, it never becomes Governor of Alabama.
Of course I understand why a NY judge would like to have power to restrain the behavior of a NY litigant while they're out of state, that has effects on what goes on in the state. But I also understand why a state legislature might wish to restrain the behavior of a state resident while they're out of state, that has effects on what goes on in the state.
The question is not why the judge would like the power, it's - why do different rules on "extra-territoriality" apply to the judicial and legislative branches ?
The behavior [relevant to the Alabama law] commited out-of-state has effects within the state’s borders.
No, it doesn't. Not in any relevant legal way. Otherwise, NY can prosecute anyone who murders a NY tourist, wherever that NY tourist happens to be when they are murdered. The necessary contacts, particularly for criminal law, are not as tenuous as you suggest.
The behavior commited out-of-state
This is future crime stuff. In the hypo, no behavior has yet occurred out of state. And once the baby has crossed state lines, it's not an Alabama fetus, it's a Tennessee or whatever fetus.
why do different rules on “extra-territoriality” apply to the judicial and legislative branches ?
Asked and answered. The short answers is the judicial branch has a different job and has fairly broad authority in controlling the conduct of a narrow class of people, specifically parties, especially criminal defendants, appearing before them (but their authority is also very narrow in that it is limited to things affecting the fairness, etc. of the proceedings), whereas the legislative branch has much more limited authority in controlling the conduct of a much broader class of people on a much broader range of issues. This difference means that, once a person is brought within a court's jurisdiction, the person's geographic location has much less relevance. Geography is absolutely essential to a state's jurisdiction.
But that's what a conspiracy is!
Would it be the same result for a conspiracy to murder an adult in a different state?
Would it be the same result for a conspiracy to murder an adult in a different state?
No, of course not. A fetus is not a person under the Constitution.
You've hit the only sensible argument, but it assumes the fact to be proved. Alabama does not get to decide for the entire country that a fetus is a person.
Short of the fetus being a person under the Constitution (or limiting the law to those states where abortion is illegal), The Alabama AG is treating to prosecute people for "conspiring" to do perfectly legal things.
Conspiracies are a thing, but they require an agreement to commit a crime.
It is extremely authoritarian to want to control not only what residents of a state do in the state, but what they legally do out of state. As if state residents are captives of the state even when they travel outside the state.
And for these dumb hypos, what if it's a citizen of New York who found out on vacation in Alabama that they were pregnant? Now it's a New York "baby" and, yet, Alabama gets to decide? What if it's an Alabama resident who decides, based on finding out she's pregnant, she wants to leave the backwards state of Alabama to get an abortion and never return. No one can help her leave on penalty of criminal conviction? (Her initial journey and first stop will be at an abortion clinic.)
That's an authoritarian hellscape the Alabama legislature and AG envision. We fought a war over this sort of thing and Alabama lost last time too. They don't get to own people within their borders.
I smell la lazy lawyer for sure.
"By the time the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified in 1868, the states widely recognized unborn children as persons. Twenty-three states and six territories referred to the fetus as a “child” in their anti-abortion statutes. Twenty-eight labeled abortion as an “offense[] against the person” or a functionally equivalent classification. Most strikingly, the same Ohio legislature that ratified the Fourteenth Amendment in January 1867 passed legislation criminalizing abortion at all stages in April. The committee that reviewed the bill, which was composed of several Senators who had voted for ratification of the amendment, declared in their report that abortion “at any stage of existence” is “child-murder.” Given the historical context, it is clear that the public meaning of the term “person” in 1868 included the preborn."
What’s the magic sauce that gives a NY judge authority over acts in Jersey, but denies the NY legislature the same ?
Because when a criminal defendant is brought to a New York court, the necessary state contacts, etc., have been established. The court has authority to control and direct its proceedings and the conduct of the parties before them. And, yes, this extends to conduct that occurs outside the courthouse, outside the city/county of the court's geographic jurisdiction, and outside the state of the court's geographic jurisdiction, particularly where, as here, the conduct is directed at the court, jurors, and witnesses. The judge cannot impose random restraints on a criminal defendant's behavior that are unrelated to ensuring the defendant appears at trial and that otherwise protects the integrity of the proceedings themselves.
States do not have anything like that sort of control over residents of the state.
Criminal defendant =/= resident of a state. Court =/= state legislature.
So, would it make a difference if they split the operation into two pieces?
Org 1 provides transport to the state border.
Org 2 provides transport after you've walked across said border.
So org 1 is just providing intra-state transport for the purpose of reaching the state border, which is entirely lawful. While org 2 is operating entirely outside the jurisdiction of the state.
Dormant commerce clause. A state can't punish people for engaging in lawful commerce in another state. No need to bring in the first amendment, or otherwise make things complicated.
So you would agree that California threatening Nevada and Arizona retailers who were selling ammo to California residents has a chilling effect on commerce?
No.
The statute at issue here is one that say that a “conspiracy formed in [Alabama] to do an act beyond the state, which, if done in this state, would be a criminal offense, is indictable and punishable in this state in all respects as if such conspiracy had been to do such act in this state.” The crime is the agreement to have the act done: splitting it up like that doesn’t change that.
just the kind of heartless stuff we all expect from you. Nothing about helping women or babies or society. Just Brett puffing up like a peacock. Why don't you actually help. Look for a woman that not only doesn't want your flight but wants her baby and needs YOUR HELP. Is that all you ever aim at, making sure that baby is killed
I would try to avoid deciding the travel question unless it was clear that Alabama law did criminalize conduct related to out of state abortions. A federal judge can not authoritatively decide that question of law. A certified question to the Alabama Supreme Court could help.
Just do it the way the Supremes have been doing it, e.g. by issuing an injunction along the lines of "To the extent that Alabama law criminalises conduct related to out of state abortions, it is hereby enjoined." (Noting that the OP wasn't about a decision about an injunction, but about a motion to dismiss.)
What's unclear about it? The text of the statute seems to pretty clearly cover the situation, and the attorney general seems to agree with the plaintiffs that it does (which is how we ended up here).
US law prohibits “sex tourism,” going to a foreign country to have sex with e.g. a minor, with minor defined under US law, not the law of the foreign country. The US regularly prosecutes.
Why doesn’t this law violate the right to travel?
Normally, foreign policy interests are considered compelling and permit the federal government from restricting US travelers. But what foreign policy interest is being met by such laws? They don’t prevent US citizens from violating foreign law or doing things that would upset foreigners. They don’t sanction the countries involved. There really isn’t any foreign policy interest involved in these laws at all. The real interest is morality, the idea that this conduct is everywhere and universally wrong and US citizens should not be allowed to indulge in it regardless of what the local government thinks. It’s pretty much the same interests as Alabama’s here.
What make the analysis any different? Should these laws be struck down for violation of the right to travel?
Because — as I noted above — there is no constitutional right to travel internationally.
That takes all US protectorates out of the picture. You must be wrong.
I happen to agree with him, but I'm sure this schwartze Carter appointee has no issue with the federal law allowing states to prevent their residents from buying long guns in other states.
You remind me of that poster: Would we care more about abortion if they killed the baby by a gun
Meanwhile
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/texan-suing-abortion-promised-drop-lawsuit-sex-1234839569/
Wait, we have a right to travel? Huh. So why does the no-fly list still exist? Oh, because we don't have a right to travel _on airplanes_. What about in cars? On bicycles? Feet? Using roads built by the state?
If the right to travel exists, but the right to use any specifically named conveyance doesn't, does a right to travel _really_ exist?
"If the right to travel exists, but the right to use any specifically named conveyance doesn’t, does a right to travel _really_ exist?"
Yes. I don't know about currently, but based on news reports, the no fly list was highly problematic, at least in execution. But, conceptually, a person could do something that it is legitimate for the government to ban them from commercial airlines, not unlike they can take away your driver's license for driving drunk.