The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
MIT President Says MIT Is Finally Shutting Down Anti-Israel Encampment
"And no matter how peaceful the students' behavior may be, unilaterally taking over a central portion of our campus for one side of a hotly disputed issue and precluding use by other members of our community is not right."
From an e-mail just circulated by President Sally Kornbluth:
Dear members of the MIT community,
The war in the Middle East continues to cause anguish and conflict here at MIT. Some have expressed their views through the encampment on the Kresge lawn. My team and I, as well as many faculty members, have engaged in extensive conversation with these students and have not interfered as they have continued their protest. However, given developments over the past several days, I must now take action to bring closure to a situation that has disrupted our campus for more than two weeks.
My sense of urgency comes from an increasing concern for the safety of our community. I know many of you feel strongly that the encampment should be allowed to continue indefinitely – that the protest is simply a peaceful exercise of the right to free expression, and that normal rules around campus conduct shouldn't apply in the face of such tragic loss of life in Gaza.
But I am responsible for this community. Without our 24-hour staffing, students sleeping outside overnight in tents would be vulnerable. And no matter how peaceful the students' behavior may be, unilaterally taking over a central portion of our campus for one side of a hotly disputed issue and precluding use by other members of our community is not right. This situation is inherently highly unstable.
What's more, the threat of outside interference and potential violence is not theoretical, it is real: We have all seen circumstances around encampments at some peer institutions degenerate into chaos. As recently as this weekend, we were presented with firm evidence of outside interference on US campuses, including widely disseminated literature that advocates escalation, with very clear instructions and suggested means, including vandalism.
Our own campus has seen a variety of actions involving people from outside MIT, including a series of rallies organized by people who have no MIT affiliation. An outside group is planning another campus disruption here this afternoon.
Many of you have sent me messages noting that the two large rallies – which brought many people from outside MIT to campus last Friday and shut down Massachusetts Avenue – occurred peacefully. But this apparent equilibrium required extraordinary preparation and enormous effort by hundreds of staff, faculty, and police, including, as the rallies were winding down, expert work by MIT Police to defuse several tense confrontations.
In short, this prolonged use of MIT property as a venue for protest, without permission, especially on an issue with such sharp disagreement, is no longer safely sustainable. I note that the faculty-led Committee on Academic Freedom and Campus Expression (CAFCE) recently concluded that these actions, a form of civil disobedience, carry consequences.
We have directed students to leave the encampment peacefully by 2:30 p.m. today. We've provided them with a letter from Chancellor Nobles that gives as much clarity as possible about the choices they have, and the pathways associated with each of these choices. You can read this information below my signature.
I hoped these measures could be avoided through our efforts to engage the students in serious good-faith discussion. But recent events, and my responsibility to ensure the physical safety of our community, oblige us to act now.
MIT can and should continue to be a place where we can discuss and seek to address contentious issues. But we are also a community of doers—of people with the skills and drive to make the world better. And no matter our political beliefs or our position on this war, we can all recognize the immense suffering unfolding in Gaza. I believe our best contribution would be to focus our collective efforts on projects that bring MIT's expertise to bear on the humanitarian crisis in the region. I've begun discussing this idea with faculty leaders.
As I've mentioned before, there is no free speech right to camp out on university property in contravention of content-neutral restrictions on such camping, whether it's at a private university or a public one.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
This 'Third Stooge' (Kornbluth) needs to go. She is marginally better than Gay and Magill, but that really isn't saying very much, is it. MIT can do better than some Stooge that leads from behind.
Like I said, it would only be a matter of time until the other side responded, and I think she got the daylights scared out of her in an intelligence briefing.
Yes, shutting down a major traffic artery (and access to I-90) during rush hour would lead to a few "tense conversations." Surprised none of the little darlings weren't introduced to Mr. Tire Iron...
And event scheduled for this afternoon? Hmmm....
By which side???
Huh?? "I must now take action to bring closure to a situation that has disrupted our campus for more than two weeks." For good reason, you seldom hear "You've been depriving me of oxygen for more than two weeks, so it's just about time for you to stop" -- bad behavior is bad behavior and the "red lines" we draw must not be allowed to be crossed (with a look askance at President Biden), even by "civil disobeyers."
It is like Suddenly Salad: precisely what portion of the 13+ minute preparation process happened "quickly and unexpectedly"?
"I hoped these measures could be avoided through our efforts to engage the students in serious good-faith discussion."
That's laughable. The pro-Hamas protestors are not in good faith, and those involved have no intention to engage in a good-faith discussion.
There are examples of dialogue working, and encampments being taken down without bloodshed.
I'm not saying that's possible in this case; I don't know the people or specific facts enough. But it's wrong to say that discussion is a priori unproductive.
Encampments aren't dialogue, Sarcastr0, and even when they "work" the nature of the results they get is fundamentally different from the results you get when dialogue works.
The results some schools have gotten say otherwise, TiP.
I know, you will settle for nothing less than wood shampoos for all.
What results? Has "dialog" resulted in some of the parties changing the minds of others?
Or did the schools capitulate and reward student's bad behavior, thereby encouraging further bad behavior and unfairly privileging some students over others?
Wood shampoo for everyone! It’s all bad behavior deserves!
Hey, in his book, schools capitulating is "dialogue working"!
Avoiding escalation is dialogue working.
Should the students set up their encampments again once they've gotten their charges dropped and they're audience with the board of regents? They should expect further concessions, no?
Should schools give concessions to all students who engage in behavior that they don't want to escalate, or are these students special?
'Don't avoid using force, this will surely embolden them for the future!'
You're speculating yourself into it's gotta be all force all the time.
Sigh. You don't have to use force, you can expel them or fine them if that gets them to leave.
But yes, I am speculating that giving them what they want will lead people engaging in similar behavior to get what they want in the future. You've got me there.
And in any event, that's not how you want policy to be set. Would you support schools giving up DEI training in order to get a bunch of right-wing students to agree not to disrupt campus? Is that how you want schools to decide whether or not to give DEI training?
Force has a history of making things worse, actually.
And students feeling seen and heard has a history of acting as a lasting solution sometimes. (partially because student activists don't want to fall into the caricature you're setting up. )
Again, I ask you to look what you're advocating for. Force as a go-to is police state shit.
Would you support schools giving up DEI training in order to get a bunch of right-wing students to agree not to disrupt campus?
This is telling. Your hypothetical includes full capitulation and no compromise at all.
"Force has a history of making things worse, actually."
And unsupported assertion. Police arrest criminals all the time, Sarcastro. It's likely society as we know it wouldn't exist if they didn't have that ability.
"This is telling. Your hypothetical includes full capitulation and no compromise at all."
How's it different than what you're calling a compromise, where students remove disruptive illegal encampments in exchange for concessions?
We aren't talking criminals, we're talking protests.
Check out the upshot of Kent State. Or Selma. Or any number of examples from back in the day.
Students got *some* of what they were asking for. Or sometimes just getting a chance to be taken seriously and heard.
You, in your extremism don't believe protest is legitimate and so any compromise looks like complete concession.
So de-escalation is something that makes you mad. You will only be happy with use of force to fully clear these students across the nation in every case. And the more if the students try again.
That will not solve the problem. It will however injure a lot of students. Which if I didn't know better really looks like is your main goal here.
I've seen very little to suggest that that is a motivating factor in the slightest.
When your protest takes place on private property against the owner's wishes, you have started committing a crime.
I believe protest is usually unproductive, but it's perfectly legitimate. Until the protesters starts committing crimes. Then it's not legitimate any more.
Yes, bad behavior should be punished, not rewarded. Rewarding it produces more bad behavior. Which is bad.
Why not?
The police responses so far seem to have been pretty measured from what I've seen, which the force used commensurate to the level of unlawful resistance encountered. Students (and non-students) seem to have some pretty easy options to avoid being subjected to it: peaceably complying with the lawful demands when they're issued, or (even more reliably) stopping their unlawful behavior by the deadline that the schools have very generously issued.
Which if I didn’t know better really looks like is your main goal here.
That will not solve the problem. It will however injure a lot of students. Which if I didn’t know better really looks like is your main goal here.
Noscitur:
TiP is making policy based on gut-based prediction. It’s rarely a good push unless you’re indulging your priors.
‘Police arrest criminals all the time’ is true, but doesn’t analogize to clearing encampments – that’s what I meant about these aren’t criminals.
When something becomes a crime versus breaking a rule, and when that crime should be applied to the whole set are both open and nuanced questions.
And an additional element is the functional one – how to deescalate and end these encampment with the least cost.
TiP is expanding the scope of the first to all protest, and ignoring the second entirely.
bad behavior should be punished, not rewarded. Rewarding it produces more bad behavior. Which is bad.
It is absolutely not that simple. Again, look at the history of campus protests in the civil rights era. Did those pop up again right after they got concessions? Maybe sometimes, but usually not. They got their classes in AA studies or whatever and that was that.
Sometimes the sit-ins got arrested. Sometimes they did not. Sometimes the way a school handled them was a mistake. Usually less so when a school took the students seriously and negotiated, or so hindsight seems to indicate.
The police responses so far seem to have been pretty measured from what I’ve seen, which the force used commensurate to the level of unlawful resistance encountered
Eehhh, they’ve been arresting a lot of bystanders.
The point I was making however, is given the scale of response TiP insists on, that trend cannot hold. Cops are cops and the failure mode is not good; risks are risks.
" taken down without bloodshed."
More of your dishonest exaggeration. Take your goalposts down and move on.
If you poo-poo talking and reaching any kind of agreement, then your desired outcome is pretty clear.
Remember I said it might not work in this case. You’re taking up the mantle of ‘discussion is a priori unproductive.’
So you’ve settled on force as a blanket solution. Well, that and telling me I support Hamas because I don't.
Wow, sounds bad, eh?
Where is your BLOODSHED? You’re a liar.
It’s more of your typical argument by dishonesty.
"So you’ve settled on force as a blanket solution. "
I never said that. Again, you LIE. You continually make up lies.
Give up your nonsense. It is just gaslight, gaslight, gaslight
You advocate for force as the Omni solution. That very breadth should be a red flag.
Denying that with force comes bloodshed is also nuts. Have you heard of cops before? They are not a low risk proposition. And at every encampment…you are in denial if you don’t see where it is going.
You accept bloodshed
Because you reject anything else.
Can’t compromise one inch! Righteous inflexibility has always played will with the youth.
No, never give in. Only deploy government force.
There are many on here who thinks the students are wrong and some that even think the police are often called for. But they manage to avoid your…enthusiasm.
"'You accept bloodshed"
"You advocate for force as the Omni solution. That very breadth should be a red flag." "Because you reject anything else."
Your entire post is a bold-faced lie, because you don't know how to do anything else. I can imagine that your bureaucratic work is filled with an equal amount of dishonesty and deceit. Why? because people who lie and cheat in small items, always do so in important tasks.
Your lies are sickening. Lie, lie, lie.
It is not just me that you respond to in this way. It is every poster whom you disagree with. Exaggerate, ridicule and lie. It's the Gaslight0 way.
I posted that some encampments being taken down via talking not force, and you called it lies and new goalposts.
So explain to me what do you want then if not force?
And you know nothing of my workplace, so maybe don't go there.
"And you know nothing of my workplace, so maybe don’t go there."
Let me guess:
You are paid with taxpayer money, and you get to spend a bunch more taxpayer money.
It would be very difficult for most people to find out if their money is being used effectively, and even if they could find out, there would be very little they could do about it other than engage in a bunch of political activity that wouldn't move the needle at all.
Is that about right?
See, this is fine. Sure argue government agencies are nontransparent, inefficient, and bad. We can talk – you’re not entirely wrong!
But Don made it personal, speculating about my life not online.
You can get hot without getting personal.
"You advocate for force as the Omni solution."
Not just him. Do you disagree that force is almost the solution applied when people refuse to leave private property?
If someone is refusing to leave McDonalds unless he is given $5, normally the manager will call the police and have the guy forcibly removed and trespassed, even if that costs more than $5. And the reason that that makes sense is that they don't want everybody standing in McDonalds demanding $5.
Do you disagree that force is almost the solution applied when people refuse to leave private property?
Yes. Trespass is not almost always solved with force, what world do you live in?
This isn't asking for money. In fact the asks differ from place to place. You're being tellingly reductive. You *want* force to be deployed in every case.
It's fucked up.
"Yes. Trespass is not almost always solved with force, what world do you live in?"
Huh? It's solved with force or the threat of force. What world do you live in?
"This isn’t asking for money. In fact the asks differ from place to place. You’re being tellingly reductive. You *want* force to be deployed in every case."
What difference does it make what the ask is? And I don't want force to be deployed in every case, I'd be happy with fines or expulsion if that worked.
But in general, the law is ultimately enforced by force instead of rewarding lawbreakers for obvious reasons.
I don't see what you think is different about these cases, it's your general desire (also expressed in your position on student loans) to reward those who share your political preferences.
I don’t live in a state of nature. If you think the police or self help is the only way to get someone to move off your land, you’re living in a shitty pulp novel.
Money is a binary continuum – it cuts the choice space way down. Good for psychology experiments, bad for analogies to the real world, if you have ever negotiated anything.
For instance, if you cared to read about any of the schools that solved this without violence you will see a lot of variation, from just bringing up divestment in the next board meeting to the creation of an Arab cultural center.
You cut all that potential compromise space out so you can pretend it’s impossible.
the law is ultimately enforced by force instead of rewarding lawbreakers for obvious reasons.
Libertarian nonsense. People have internal controls, including not wanting to be seen as lawbreakers. No force required.
You want to go 'well if they keep refusing' you're moving the goalposts to exclude compromise.
“I don’t live in a state of nature. If you think the police…”
Maybe you don’t understand what a state of nature is?
“if you cared to read about any of the schools that solved this without violence you will see a lot of variation, from just bringing up divestment in the next board meeting to the creation of an Arab cultural center.”
Again, what difference does it make if the reward is an Arab cultural center, money, or something else? If I were advising a bunch of Italian students on how to get an Italian cultural center, I’d tell them to start breaking out the tents. Not you? If you give concessions without requiring them to give up their leverage, they’ll extract more concessions. And I don’t see how the students have any less leverage after the compromise.
“People have internal controls, including not wanting to be seen as lawbreakers. No force required.”
Why yes, most often people don’t break the law so no enforcement is required. We’re talking about what happens when they do break the law.
Out of curiosity, do you think Chemerinsky should have compromised with the student, and allowed her to give part of her speech? Was he wrong to threaten to call the police, who would have threatened to remove her by force, and eventually done so?
Chemerinsky handled it quite well. Note the many differences from a single person in a single incident to these encampments with there varied approaches placements and situations.
Of course he’s a big free speech guy, you wouldn’t understand.
———
Bottom line, you think listening to the students is capitulation. That kind of zero tolerance is a great way to be a partisan jackhole, and make things worse for everyone.
Luckily cooler heads than you are all over the place.
"Bottom line, you think listening to the students is capitulation. "
More dishonesty. And you know you're being dishonest. If you can't make your argument without lying, you probably don't have a good argument.
And you know you’re being dishonest this is as weird as the accusations of gaslighting.
I posted examples of encampments being solved through dialogue. I said sometimes the concessions were 'just bringing up divestment in the next board meeting.'
You hated it.
You see only force as the proper solution, and I don't understand how you can write what you've written here and deny that characterization.
Oh, you're referring to the situations where listening to the students actually is capitulating?
Yes, if you grant students an audience with the board of regents because they threatened to continue to disrupt the campus if you didn't, then merely listening to the students is capitulating.
You keep claiming there are examples of dialogue working, and you keep throwing bombs at people who disagree. What are your examples?
University of Minnesota,
University of Rochester,
Rutgers,
Brown.
Rutgers is an example of dialogue working? My, my.
When most people refer to "dialog working" they mean two sides talking and coming to an agreement.
Sarcastro is referring to one side setting up illegal encampments that disrupt campus business, and the other side capitulating to avoid the disruption. It really is dishonest.
Naw, it's not dishonest - that's just acknowledging that protest is a legitimate way to foment change, and these encampments are a legitimate form of protest.
Again, it's hard to escape that you think the only way to react to a protest is to arrest them all.
Which is quite ignorant of the history and sociology of protest. If you don't want them to get what they want, rolling in heavy is a pretty bad idea, unless you live in a police state.
"and these encampments are a legitimate form of protest."
They're not legitimate, by definition.
Of course, if you're going to pretend that they're legitimate, and if you believe that preventing disruption by capitulating to the demands of people who create disruptions is a desirable way to drive policy, then sure, your position makes sense.
I was assuming that we don't want to encourage this behavior.
They’re not legitimate, by definition.
This message brought to you by some time before the Civil Rights Movement.
Our civic morality hasn't been where you are in quite some time.
You are really really failing to understand human nature if you think 1) hearing and giving respect to students will just make them go protest again for something else, and 2) cracking down on them will make them stop being righteous and go back to their classes.
I think you just want a crackdown and are willing to fail psychology to get it.
What's legitimate isn't determined by your attempts to practice amateur psychology. We live in a democracy.
But if your view is that being disruptive is a legitimate way to drive policy, then sure, giving concessions to people who are disruptive makes sense.
I don't think people who, say, block traffic, should have an extra voice in policy making, and I don't want people to block traffic or create illegal encampments, so I think we should avoid giving concessions to people who do these things, and punish them, so that don't do it.
And yes, I want crackdowns on illegal activity, whether it's protest activity or not, until it becomes much less frequent.
Your retrograde take condemns MLK and indeed most of the civil rights movement, and the anti-Vietnam protests. And the anti-Nuke protests. And the anti-Iraq War protests.
All disruptive, all included lawbreaking. Most included people going to jail even.
They were therefore all illegitimate? You're really out on a limb here.
What are you talking about? Just because we might like result of some of those movements doesn't mean we need to condone all of the tactics used in those movements.
I mean, maybe MLK ended school segregation by blocking traffic or whatever. That doesn't imply that we should tolerate any yutz with a policy preference standing in the middle of the road.
Culturally, because we like the results of those movements we now condone those tactics. We learn about it in school, how brave it is and how difficult to control yourself.
Not in every case, not in every way, but it is quite a thing to see a broadly stated 'civil disobedience is illegitimate' in the wild.
Yes, we condone them so much that we've outlawed them.
And again, civil disobedience is by definition illegitimate. To the extent that it has any legitimacy at all, it is that when the cause is just enough to outweigh the harm caused by the lawbreaking, you can say that the actions have some moral legitimacy.
But something like forming a human chain around a polling place to prevent black people from voting is civil disobedience, but such a tactic has no legitimacy in any way shape or form, agreed?
But making an argument that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote is a legitimate tactic, although one that should fail.
The whole fucking thing with civil disobedience is that illegal is not the same as illegitimate.
Read Letter from a Birmingham Jail again and consider who you sound like that MLK describes.
As for your human chain thing, a legitimate method for immoral or even illegitimate ends still sucks.
It's like you are afraid to just say the protestors' goals are bad and leave it at that, you need more.
"The whole fucking thing with civil disobedience is that illegal is not the same as illegitimate."
From dictionary.com:
legitimate (adjective)
1. according to law; lawful:
If you're using a different definition, please point out what that is.
You know, when you find yourself arguing that forming a human chain around polling places is a legitimate way of advancing your policy goals, it's a good time to sit back and wonder where your life went wrong.
Legitimate and lawful are different words.
Any definition that pretends they are synonyms is ignoring at least some nuance.
It's not a lawful child, for instance.
You're playing semantics, and I don't think many will walk along with you.
"Legitimate and lawful are different words."
You said illegal, not unlawful. Those are different words too.
You're the one playing semantics with the whole illegal/illegitimate distinction. But in any case, if your point depends on a distinction between two words that the dictionary says mean the same thing, you're probably not making your point very well.
And "legitimate" the way you're using it is an unfalsifiable claim. You claim that effecting policy change by blocking traffic is legitimate but not lawful, I could just as easily claim that running people over who block traffic is legitimate but not lawful.
As I said earlier, you're using the term in and entirely subjective sense.
What would you point to as the best example of a school addressing the situation the way you think they should have?
I have a wide range of what I think might be the right way to handle things, since facts will change in material ways from campus to campus.
Force is not right out, it's just an awful go-to. And I'd say negotiation is also not a blanket go-to.
But sometimes it works: University of Minnesota, University of Rochester, Rutgers, Brown all deescalated.
Things look like they went well to me, but I allow that I don't know the particular facts from the quick reporting, so maybe even here things were handled in ways I wouldn't have.
Sorry it's so shaggy, but anyone advocating for a blanket solution is pushing an agenda.
Columbia cancelled its graduation ceremonies. What a way to win friends and influence people.
It's not a matter of influencing people ... it's a matter of exuding power in the face of administrative and social weakness, something that the pro-Hamas protestors have done extremely well.
Only deranged college-hating right-wingers who claim being anti-war is pro-hamas ought to be allowed to dictate policy to colleges.
What’s more, the threat of outside interference and potential violence is not theoretical, it is real: We have all seen circumstances around encampments at some peer institutions degenerate into chaos.
That has not been thought through. Time to start a search for a new MIT President—one who will not, in effect, appeal to thugs to invade the MIT campus, attack peaceable assemblies, and thus compel the President to vindicate an ill-advised warning by punishing people the thugs wanted muzzled all along.
"Time to start a search for a new MIT President—one who will not, in effect, appeal to thugs to invade the MIT campus"
Spoken like a small time, small-minded newspaper man. By thug, I assume that you mean the Cambridge police. Have the balls to say it explicitly.
"Not been thought through" And of course, you have Because you have noting better to do.
And right now "thugs" have shut Mass Ave from Vassar St. to Memorial drive during afternoon rush hours. But you thing that is peace and of no harm to anyone.
Don Nico -- is that TODAY, May 6th?
Or are you referencing the past incident?
I don't listen to Howie Carr anymore because it raises my blood pressure but if they did it AGAIN today, you better believe he spent 4 hours talking about it, and his show reaches from Canada to NYC.
If they do it again tomorrow, watch for the situation to become explosive. If the BPD or MSP or Cops R Us had knowledge that this would happen today (if it did), then I can imagine what they would have told her, which is pretty much what I would have told her...
You can read Putin propaganda quite well, but seem to struggle with English.
"...appeal to thugs to invade the MIT campus, attack peaceable assemblies, and thus compel the President to vindicate an ill-advised warning by punishing people the thugs wanted muzzled all along."
Lathrop is speaking about the non-students who are escalating the situation. You'd recognize this if you bothered to read the blog post:
Steven, I've been in harm's way. One night I had to deal with an after-dark event involving 2000-3000 students when I overheard on a police officer's radio that someone had been shot in the vicinity. (If she hadn't immediately turned down the volume of her hip-mounted radio, I would never have realized this was *here*.
So I send an undergrad to go ask her what happened and the undergrad (female) is told that "someone fell down and got hurt."
Well, that's technically true, but, ummm...
And I told the undergrads (her and others) running the event what I thought had happened (and Ed was right) and that while we needed to be prepared to shut the event down IMMEDIATELY if the situation worsened (they hadn't found the shooter), I thought we should keep going right now.
It's a damn tough call at times -- that was one.
This is another -- someone scared the daylights out of this bureaucrat, I don't know who or for what, but that's what I see here.
This is a completely believable story that I am totally willing to take at face value. Thank you for your contribution!
I LOL'd!
Well played, sir, well played.
OK,May 1993, a shooting about 16 feet over the Hadley town line.
Include the AFD ambulance logs -- and billing data.
This is enough for you to find it, so fuck you.
Wow. Pretty defensive! Next thing we know you’ll be wanting to crush ME with a snowplow!
“so fuck you”
What– no fire truck?
MIT needs to prepare for graduation and the protesters will get in the way.
People who argue “normal rules around campus conduct shouldn’t apply in the face of such tragic loss of life in Gaza" will not of course extend that argument to all other tragic losses of life occurring at present in conflicts elsewhere.
That's a very important point. I just got back from North Africa and there is a humanitarian catastrophe on Algeria's southern border. Mali and Niger both have economies that have completely collapsed due to coups, drought and terrorism. There is literally no food to be had in parts of that region, even if you have money to buy it. So, of course, thousands of people are attempting to migrate to Algeria which, for all its faults, does have a decent economy.
But Algeria has a different approach to refugees on its Southern border than the US does. Its military simply picks them up and drops them in the middle of the Sahara desert with no food or water. It is estimated there may be as many as 25,000 dead bodies in the Southern Sahara of refugees dumped there by Algeria.
And the reason nobody else here has heard of any of this is that it's Mali and Niger so no one cares. Period, full stop. Imagine if either Israel or the US did anything even remotely comparable. Where are the protesters?
Well, we aren't sending billions to Algeria, so there's that. I suspect MIT doesn't have a lot of ties to Algeria that protesters could advocate for severing. What would be the point of protesting exactly?
In other words, you have no concern for human lives that you cannot leverage for political advantage.
How.................'progressive'............
Indeed!
Huh? Of course I have concern. I don’t protest about everything that concerns me. Protests are about making demands and changing minds. Whose minds need changing about Algeria? Who am I going to make demands of?
You’re searching for hypocricy in really silly places.
I am reminded of the drunk searching for his keys under the street light.
People could protest these things until they’re blue in the face – if you ever bothered to take notice it would only be to mock them, precisely because they are not issues you can leverage for political gain through polarisation and demagoguery.
As I understand it, we have managed to end starvation -- that notwithstanding droughts (which have happened since biblical times), the only places where people are actually starving are places where various militaries or terrorists have used food as a weapon.
Well, I;d say it's time to make that a war crime. Let's have a few more Nuremburg trials of the warlords involved in this stuff.
But do we have the will to execute Black Marxists?
Fire up the wing plows! Full speed ahead, damn the Constitution!
Please don’t tempt me…..
Seek help. You are not well.
'Where are the protesters?'
Where are the people and institutions that support those things to which the protests can be addressed? If the student body camped out for a month over any of those things you wouldn't take a blind bit of notice, or care. You don't even know for sure that they didn't.
Uh, I absolutely know for sure that there were not similar protests over the fate of refugees from Mali and Niger over the last six months.
They ran this trick before with the Lobby 7 takeover, where they promised punishments for trespassers, and then backpedaled nominally because they might be subject to deportation.
I'd be surprised if they suspend any student over this.
"I’d be surprised if they suspend any student over this."
So will I.
And I...
It is currently MIT's annual 'put the touch on alumni' period. I recently donated the money that I would have otherwise given to MIT to FIDF (Friends of the IDF) instead--along with a matching donation from my employer--entirely because Ms. Kornbluth is still on the job. Sorry MIT, no soup for you.
Did you tell MIT this???
MIT will still be around long after Israel -- at least, the right-wing, war-criming, parasitic version of Israel observed today -- has paid an existential price for its indefensible right-wing belligerence.
In the medium to long term, you threw your money into a septic tank.
I stopped giving to the MIT general fund in favor of directly to my living group, after FOC was implemented. So I don't have as much leverage now. I'm OK with that.
Policies should define/memorialize principles. Understanding principles ahead of time then requires very little active thought to follow in the moment - because that thinking and debate was already done in the past. That is the point of policies - clear direction for management on how to act in the moment.
To have a policy about use of campus space and then not follow it as an immediate reaction was a mistake. Now we just spent weeks relearning why the policy was written as it is. Time and energy were wasted because administrators/managers second-guessed the policy. Delay simply increased cost.
There's a time and place for re-evaluating policy or any received wisdom. In the moment is generally not the time or place. Whether the submarine captain should launch the nuclear missiles - okay, maybe the consequences have some bearing on taking a breath first, but generally this is not the scenario we're confronted with. Allowing protestors to dictate use of space and violence is a known bad recipe. That these seats of mature administration and higher learning had to relearn this lesson was frustrating, surprising, and ridiculous.
It is possible to believe that the Oct 7 Hamas attack was a horrible brutal act and also that the Israeli response is as or more horrible and brutal. (and that was the whole point of the Hamas attack - to goad Israel into over-reacting so that they lose international support. This appears to be working, but I digress...)
It is also possible to believe that the encampments are not protected 1A speech and agree that they should be shut down, and also to simultaneously believe that sending in riot police and firing rubber bullets is a gross over reaction on the part of some college presidents. Let's hope the MIT encampment ends peacefully.
Those protesters have chosen a poor method (because college students) but they are on the right side of history, occupying the moral high ground, and their cause seems destined to prevail over time as American continues to improve against the wishes of the conservatives currently cheering for Israel's violent, bigoted, superstition-driven belligerence.
Would you say that the future belongs to those students?
They have much more future than the current version of Israel does.
I'm comforted to see that, once again, evil retains your sage counsel.
Let's see if any students are suspended; then we can reassess the wisdom of Kornbluth's and Noble's message.
"For those who do not leave the encampment voluntarily by 2:30 pm: If you have not been sanctioned by the COD and do not have any pending COD cases related to events since October 7, but choose to stay in the encampment past the deadline, you will be placed on an immediate interim academic suspension lasting at least through Institute commencement activities, and you will be referred to the COD. This means you will be prohibited from participating in any academic activities – including classes, exams, or research – for the remainder of the semester."
"immediate interim academic suspension "
Hmmmm....
I genuinely don't know the difference between "academic" suspension and regular "suspension" but I am thinking that there might be a distinction relative to student visas.
INS (or whomever they are now) wants to ensure that the foreign students are physically attending the school. A "regular" suspension at every IHE I have ever been affiliated with means that you get arrested if you set foot on campus. (Assuming, of course, they can find a cop quick enough and that sometimes is a problem, but I digress.)
Could there possibly be a distinction being made here -- we won't suspend you enough for you to be sent home, but we will suspend you enough so that you can't go to class.
Why do you even think there is a separate "regular suspension"? Do you also think there is a "sooper-dubbel-sekrit suspension" that you should speculatively wank about?
Cites or STFU and STFD, Grampa.
Don Nico…Could Kornbluth possibly move more glacially, and less decisively than she is doing currently? I don’t know how she is doing on the fundraising front for MIT, but she has handled this entire affair disastrously from a PR perspective for MIT.
meh .. I’m an MIT alum, and while there are obvs. extreme opinions out there, the overall impression I get is that most alums would disagree with the “disastrously” characterization. It’s a hard position to be in, and trying to solve a problem gets you credit even if you don’t get the perfect answer the very first time.
I trust that approach a lot more than a tired, sleepy someone with an orange tan and a dead-rat combover who claims he knows the perfect answer every time.
Time will tell, of course.
I'm an MIT alum too ... and I guess we travel in different circles. My friends and acquaintances are all horrified by the gross incompetence at the 'tute, and most of them have modified their donations.
At the same time, MIT has long made clear that they don't really care for small donations, so perhaps it's only the big fish that are important.
Pleased ta meetcha! (class’o’93 here)
The best I got is “it’s complicated” and the opinions of randos on the VC are not driving my thinking here …
But ooft yeah, I changed up my donations after the FOC debacle, personally. My donations now go direct to my living group and the the undergrads therein. Frack the administration ... right in the ear.
You know that I have tried not to be too critical of Kornbluth. However, not being decisive after her 2:30 deadline will cause serious damage to her prospects of survival.
When one draws a red line and then fails to enforce it, one looks doubly weak and indecisive. (Think Obama; think Syria). At one point in mid-afternoon, there were only 5 students still encamped. That was the time to issue 5 promised suspensions. That time is passed.
If she thinks that there will be a commencement in its usual venue, she'd better think again. The HAMAS-inspired thugs (to use Lathrop's word) have her on the ropes.
Poor commencement, poor fund-raising
Kornbluth was a profile in cowardice with respect to antisemitism when she was Duke’s Prevost too.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/19/mit-president-also-had-an-antisemitism-problem-at-duke/
Course XIV, '67
"As we write, about 150 students and others are standing in a circle around the tents and others are nearby chanting. While no arrests have been made on campus, police officers from MIT, Cambridge and the state remain on the scene to preserve public safety. MIT buildings in the area remain on card-access only."
That is at 9:00 pm. Sally's bluff has been called.
so, evolving situation. What's your prediction for 24hrs from now?
Mine: encampment is removed, so that it can not be occupied overnight Tues night/Weds morning.
I will be interested to see the mood when I am on campus tomorrow
noice. I look forward to your perspective! I'm in Wisconsinland and can't get back there nearly as often as I'd like.
Course 12, btw.
I hope that you're correct.
Well it's 9:12 PM and the protesters are still there - or more accurately, they tore down the barricades and returned to the protest.
Of course MIT officials report that no protesters have been arrested.
It is likely none will be arrested or suspended.
Gonna disagree here. I predict Ms. Kornbluth will give students every chance to comply - with a grace period - but holdouts will be sanctioned.
Are you putting a marker on "no sanctions for non-compliant students"?
Let's see where this goes!
I take you sense of caution (or hope) that we should wait another 24 hours. These situation are always somewhat uncertain.
Unfortunately, non-students have even more incentive to increase the pressure. That was why Mass Ave was closed this afternoon.
I tend to agree! a 2:30pm deadline doesn't mean that everyone still protesting at 2:31pm should get nuked from orbit. Even if it is a ... way to be sure.
I wouldn't want to be a MIT cop if they try it again today...
They probaly don't actually want their students arrested or suspended merely for protesting, it would seem a poor way to treat your students, and you could run out of students if you kept it up, especially the ones with those qualities of leadership and social conscience they value so highly.
It looks like Sally's ultimatum worked great:
https://twitter.com/RetsefL/status/1787648403725324615
"those who chose to stay were threatened with an academic or full suspension."
well, there must be a distinction between the two......
On the positive side for Pres. Kornbluth from today's NYT:
"M.I.T. Will No Longer Require Diversity Statements for Hiring Faculty"
The encampment controversy has made it evident that little memory of the 60s is to be found among educational policy makers. The generation which can tell those tales first-hand inevitably aged out, to be replaced largely by a succeeding generation—a generation which spent politically formative years pickled in the Nixon/Reagan-era retrenchment.
Of course merely demographic facts should surprise no one. Today's senior educational administrators now have birth dates clustered in the interval 1960–1980. Which means they grew up in a society working hard, and almost in a panic, to buff off any leftist edges or corners, however rounded they already were.
We see the effects now of that experience. It shows in the frightened conformity of college administrators, clueless about what alternative positions they might take to deliver better outcomes for their institutions, for themselves, or for society at large. Their evident confusion, and resulting fear, are evocative of the post-McCarthy era, when formerly targeted persecutions had been replaced by stifling conformity spread wide among the nation's leaders—including the educational leaders of that era.
What applies to today's administrators seems to apply likewise to most of the VC conspirators, and to the older commenters. Only a few of us are still in evidence who remember what a strait-jacketed and essentially militarized society we had then. We lived in a time when it was still an act of courage (or social recklessness) for a young male with ambition to forego a haircut, or even grow a mustache, let alone a beard.
Thus, it is unsurprising that so few of the comments here reflect awareness by their authors that they echo with uncanny precision pro-military, pro-reactionary, pro-conformity, rhetoric of the era which preceded the 60s. That dismal time, when Cold War fear exerted a vice-grip on American society.
Back then, it took genuine courage simply to step off the curb and join a passing political parade. Indeed, a political protest parade featuring resectable white people was something no young person in the early 60s was likely ever to have seen. Thus, expectations that your participation could be noticed, recorded, and follow you life-long to your detriment were realistic. Thanks to the Nixon/Reagan retrenchment, that did happen then, and the results have trailed the lives of members of my generation right through to the present.
I think it unwise to return to that former unfreedom. I read the news reports, and the commentary featured by this blog, with dismay. What a pity it seems for a society to struggle so long—essentially for a lifetime—and to sacrifice—and to learn nothing from it.
Today your pride runneth over. It is a shame that today's university administrators have so little wisdom and do not call on you for enlightenment.
But in one's old age, that pride can be forgiven in the powerless, among whom you number. At least you are honest in presenting your true opinion unlike some others here.
For that I commend you. Have a good day Stephen, I can agree to disagree with you.
A university administrator cannot possibly please all university stakeholders, let alone kibitzers pontificating at a website full of ignorant and bad faith actors.
I decline to take the opportunity to painstakingly edit her statement in order to fit my own belief about how best to effect beneficial social change. If her message results in de-escalation and a return to the university’s core mission, I’m good.
TL,DR: Sarcastr0 is essentially correct here.
<3
On the contrary, the memory of the 60s is all too alive, among some (thankfully, not all) administrators, and certainly among the students.
The true lesson of the 60s protest movement is that, for the most part, Americans don't like America-hating weirdos, and if you make America-hating weirdos the face of your movement, most Americans are going to oppose and resist you, and they will win. America-hating weirdos like you are so consumed by nostalgia that they don't even realize they lost, and thus fail the understand the lesson.
(By the way, every protest movement in the last hundred years or so did understand this, from the civil rights movement to the campaign for gay rights to the anti-Iraq war movement in the early 2000s: even though the all attracted their fair share of America-hating weirdos, they took the effort to sideline those people and emphasize that they were normal, patriotic people.)
Looks like the encampment is back ... what a surprise!