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"Trump Didn't Violate Logan Act with Reshare of Old Iran Social Media Post, Experts Say"
PolitiFact (Jeff Cercone) has the story; I am one of the experts. An excerpt about the facts:
After Iran launched a barrage of missiles at Israel on April 13 in its first direct military assault on the country, Sen. Rick Scott, R-Fla., told his X followers why he thought former President Donald Trump should be reelected.
"This is the strength we need back in the White House!" Scott wrote April 13, sharing a July 22, 2018, tweet in which Trump threatened Iran's president. Trump later that day shared a screenshot of Scott's post on Truth Social , without further comment.
Trump's sharing of Scott's post led several X users to accuse the former president of violating the Logan Act, a 1799 law that bars private citizens from communicating with foreign governments to influence them about disputes with the U.S.
My thinking, from my e-mail to the PolitiFact writer (which was largely quoted in the post):
[1.] The Logan Act is a 1799 statute that makes it a crime for a U.S. citizen acting "without authority of the United States" to
- "directly or indirectly commence[] or carr[y] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof,
- "with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof,
- "in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States."
It thus purports to restrict at least some forms of negotiations with foreign governments by private citizens.
[2.] If this is read as applying to public exhortations to foreign governments, it would pretty clearly violate modern First Amendment principles. Americans – whether Senators, former officeholders, newspaper editors, or ordinary citizens – have a right to publicly call for foreign governments to do or not do various things.
The New York Times editorial board has a right to call on Israel to follow American government advice about Gaza, or to call on Russia to free Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich. People have a right to publicly say "Putin, keep up the good fight against Ukraine" (or, in an earlier era, "Sandinistas, keep up the good fight against the contras") even though that would be aimed at defeating U.S. policy. Likewise, legislators are entitled to do the same, as are well-known (or unknown) private citizens.
More broadly, of course a campaigning public official has to be able to express his views about foreign policy, and statements to voters framed as demands to foreign officials are a pretty normal and constitutionally protected means of doing so. [I should have more precisely said, "a person campaigning for public office." -EV]
My sense is that, if there is a prosecution … a court would read the statute narrowly, as focused only on direct one-on-one negotiations (though even those may well be constitutionally protected). But if it concludes that "correspondence or intercourse" includes public statements, aimed at least at much at a domestic audience as at the foreign country, then I can't see how the statute thus interpreted would be consistent with First Amendment law.
Here's a post of mine on a similar question in 2015, which also quotes Profs. Steve Vladeck (now at Texas), Michael Dorf (Cornell), and Marty Lederman (Georgetown).
[* * *]
I've been hearing some buzz about whether House Speaker John A. Boehner, when he invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress, and the 47 Republican senators who wrote a letter to Iranian leaders violated the Logan Act. I'm not an expert on the subject, and don't have an expert opinion. But I thought I'd canvass some opinions from scholars who have focused on this question (which is quite separate, of course, from the question whether the speaker's and senators' actions were wise).
1. First, what's the Logan Act, you ask? Unusually for statutes (as opposed to judicially crafted doctrines, such as the Miranda rule), the Logan Act is named after the supposed bad guy: Dr. George Logan, a state legislator who traveled to France in 1798 to try to negotiate an end to the France-America Quasi-War. Congress didn't go for that, and enacted the statute that now appears at 18 U.S.C. § 953:
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
(As it happens, a couple of years later Logan was appointed and then elected to the Senate, and apparently tried and failed to get the Logan Act repealed.)
2. So what does the Logan Act mean today, and is it even constitutional, given modern understandings of the First Amendment? A few reactions:
a. First, Prof. Steve Vladeck (American Univ.) has a post on the subject, which strikes me as likely correct on the law. Some excerpts:
[1.] [Under the Act,] the citizen must act "without authority of the United States." Although most assume that means without authority of the Executive Branch, the Logan Act itself does not specify what this term means, and the State Department told Congress in 1975 that "Nothing in section 953 … would appear to restrict members of the Congress from engaging in discussions with foreign officials in pursuance of their legislative duties under the Constitution." … Combined with the rule of lenity and the constitutional concerns identified below, it seems likely that … courts would interpret this provision to not apply to such official communications from Congress.
[2.] It seems quite likely, as one district court suggested in passing in 1964, that the terms of the statute are both unconstitutionally vague and in any event unlikely to survive the far stricter standards contemporary courts place on such content-based restrictions on speech….
[3.] [T]he Logan Act has never been successfully used (indeed, the last indictment under the Act was in … 1803). Although most assume this is just a practical obstacle to a contemporary prosecution, it's worth reminding folks about "desuetude" - the legal doctrine pursuant to which statutes (especially criminal ones) may lapse if they are never enforced (interested readers should check out a fantastic 2006 student note on the subject in the Harvard Law Review). If ever there was a case in which desuetude could be a successful defense to a federal criminal prosecution, I have to think that this would be it.
b. Now let me turn to Prof. Michael Dorf (Cornell), though speaking not about this controversy but about the similar one in 2007, when then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi went to Syria to negotiate with Assad:
I'll just note four issues:
1) There is zero chance that Pelosi will actually be prosecuted.
2) In the hypothetical world in which she were prosecuted, she could claim:
a) That as Speaker, she had "authority of the United States." (This strikes me as a weak argument because in matters of diplomatic relations, the executive branch is the relevant authority.)
b) Her intent was to influence Syria's conduct with respect to Israel, not the United States. (This strikes me as a good argument, because it appears to be true. Her trip was pre-blessed by Israeli PM Olmert. The Administration might claim that Pelosi's trip nonetheless was aimed to "defeat the measures of the United States," namely the measures aimed at isolating Syria, but could Pelosi be shown to have had the "intent" to do so? Perhaps. Her aim was in part to engage Syria, as recommended by the Hamilton/Baker report, which does sound like the opposite of isolating Syria.)
c) She was on a fact-finding mission. (Pelosi has said as much, and members of Congress are, as I noted in my last entry on this subject, entitled to go on fact-finding missions without the President's blessing. But if she was on a fact-finding mission that also included violations of the Logan Act, she would still be guilty.)
3) As the Speaker and others have noted, Republican members of Congress have also been to Syria, including this past week, without incurring the wrath of the Administration. One could, in theory, interpret the Administration's silence with respect to these other freelancers as amounting to a delegation of "authority" to them to conduct foreign policy, but that would be a strained reading of the statute in the interest of sustaining a selective prosecution. If it undermines official efforts of the U.S. to isolate Syria for a Democratic member of Congress to meet with Bashar Assad, then a meeting with a Repubican member of Congress has the same effect. There may be circumstances in which a President could legitimately authorize a member of his own party in Congress to conduct diplomacy on his behalf while withholding such authority from other members of Congress, but if that is to justify selective prosecution under the Logan Act, one would think that the authorization would have to come before the diplomacy.
4) Because no one has ever been convicted of violating the Logan Act, and no indictments have even issued in the last 200 years, any inferences about its meaning are necessarily speculative. See point 1 above.
c. Finally, Prof. Marty Lederman (Georgetown):
[S]uch communications by legislators with foreign officials - including communications with our adversaries, and sometimes expressing views contrary to those of the Executive branch - are nothing new. It's been going on in full force since at least the beginning of the 20th Century. See Detlev Vagts's very interesting 1966 account of the history of the Logan Act in 60 AMJIL 268, 275f. for some prominent examples. If Pelosi is acting unlawfully or inappropriately, she has plenty of company….
The prohibition of [the Logan Act], read literally, has been constantly violated since its enactment, as Vagts and others recount. (Indeed, it would appear even to prohibit, e.g., attorneys in the U.S. from representing foreign nations in U.S. litigation.) Yet only one indictment was ever brought - in 1802, when a Kentucky farmer wrote a newspaper article advocating that the western part of the U.S. form a new nation allied to France, and a zealous United States attorney (John Marshall's brother-in-law!) procured an indictment. Not surprisingly, the case went nowhere. And that's the history of the Logan Act. As Lou Fisher has written, "if ever there is a dead letter in the law, it is the Logan Act and the stilted thinking that inspired it."
Does the Logan Act apply to members of Congress? Vagts says yes, on a literal reading, 60 AMJIL at 290, although the "without authority of the United States" condition certainly would make it an interesting question, in the unlikely event the statute were ever invoked.
Does the Logan Act raise First Amendment questions as applied to private parties? Vagts again suggests it does. I'm not so sure - at least as to one-on-one private negotiations overseas. But again - it doesn't matter, because the statute has (appropriately) lapsed into desuetude.
What about the constitutional question of the permissibility of a member of the Congress engaging in diplomatic discussions with a foreign nation? Frankly, it troubles me - or it would do so if Pelosi were purporting to speak on behalf of the United States.
Congress may, by statute, dictate the foreign policy of the United States. (By the way, that's a fine excuse to note the most important constitutional development of the week: As great and significant as the Court's analysis on Article III standing was in Monday's landmark Massachusetts v. EPA decision, the sentence in Stevens's opinion that might have the most important long-term impact was this one: "[W]hile the President has broad authority in foreign affairs, that authority does not extend to the refusal to execute domestic laws.")
Nevertheless, perhaps it's the OLC lawyer in me, but I think there's much to be said for the notion that insofar as actual U.S. communications with the outside world are concerned, the President is to be (in Marshall's famous words) the "sole organ" by which U.S. policy is conveyed (consistent, again, with statutory direction). More broadly, as far as official U.S. execution of the law is concerned, Congress and its members and/or agents can have no role, once the process of bicameralism and presentment is completed. Or so say Chadha, Bowhser, WMATA, Buckley, etc., anyway.
For me, then, it would be important to know in what capacity Pelosi was purporting to speak. If she were "only" conveying the views of the opposition party - or of a prominent private person - and not purporting to speak for the U.S., then I don't think there'd be much of a constitutional problem, however imprudent or inadvisable her actions might arguably have been. Again, I assume that State Department officials were with her, and that to the extent her views were inconsistent with the official U.S. views, that would have been made known to Syria in no uncertain terms. If that's the case, I think the problems, if any, are not constitutional. But if Pelosi - or any of the other numerous congressional officials who have long engaged in diplomacy with foreign nations - purported to be speaking on behalf of the Nation, it would raise constitutional questions.
In any event, I thought some of our readers would find these items interesting.
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How do we know nobody has been prosecuted under the Logan Act? Does the statement mean "we searched (keywords) and no cases matched"? Did the 19th century Justice Department keep a file of all prosecutions under each statute, updating the index as statutes moved around?
In 2007 Justice Department employee Monica Goodling refused to testify to Congress on Fifth Amendment grounds. Robert Mueller said nobody had done that and remained an employee. Same question. He was probably right. How can we be sure?
Because it's a notoriously unconstitutional act, recognized as such even when enacted, any prosecution under it would have been the sort of scandal that would be recorded in the history books.
There is nothing obviously unconstitutional about it. Negotiating with foreign countries is not speech; it is conduct.
Riiight. You obviously can negotiate with people without using words, people do it all the time.
As "not guilty" — one of the many lawyers here — has tried to explain to you repeatedly, the fact that someone uses speech to commit a crime does not make it a 1A issue. Asking someone to murder your wife is a crime, even though that "uses words." Extortion "uses words." Prof. Volokh has written extensively on crime-facilitating speech.
Prosecuting someone wonder the Logan act would be like prosecuting them under the Alien and Sedition acts. (Enacted about the same time.) Simply proposing to establishes that you're not serious.
Sadly, there WERE prosecutions under the Alien & Sedition Act.
Someone threw the editor of the Hartford (CT) Currant into jail -- I can't remember if it was Adams or Jefferson -- neither man did himself well with that law...
Jefferson's use of the Sedition Act was especially disgraceful, since it was no longer in effect when he became president.
The thing about Dr. Ed is just how dumb he is. Jefferson is famous for opposing the Sedition Act.
Wait...I want to hear more about desuetude. Although this term evokes my fave judge - Judge Selya of First Circuit - desuetude surely seems relevant wrt Logan Act. When is it used? Why have it?
Who has ever actually been prosecuted for a Logan Act violation?
Digests 1.3.32 - Julianus, Digest, Book XCIV
Back in the day you used to have taken Latin in high school in order to be allowed to study law in the Netherlands. But for those not so blessed:
https://droitromain.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/Anglica/D1_Scott.htm#III:~:text=Julianus%2C%20Digest%2C%20Book%20XCIV
Doesn’t matter they just want to add another ‘crime’ Trump has committed so they can judge shop around and bog him down with another legal battle on top of the pile of thousands.
They probably just want Trump to stop losing his fucking mind and screaming threats at foreign leaders. Not going to happen, of course.
He posted an old post.
I'm sure you had the same issue with Kerry going over to SA and Iran while Trump was president.
Did Kerry post belligerent shit about it in all-caps on social media? If he did, I might have the same issue with him.
"They" are a bunch of random tweeters. How would "they" get to judge shop around" and/or "bog him down with another legal battle?" That's a dumb comment even from the bigoted right-wing rube perspective.
Is Trump guilty of violating the Logan Act by tweeting about something? Probably not.
Are Trump, Kushner, Grinnell, and other Trump-era stooges and proxies currently engaged in negotiating deals with foreign governments, promising official favors in exchange for help getting themselves back into office? We may never know! Eugene sure as hell doesn't give a shit!
Simon, do you know what foreign governments usually do when someone does something like you propose?
They assume it is false flag and an attempt by the current (i.e. Biden) Administration to determine their loyalty. So they go Blushing Virgin and hand the whole thing to the US Ambassador along with a protest about how loyal they are to the US, what a great friend to the US they are, and how terrible it was that the US didn't trust that they truly are a friend of the US.
This is why this sort of thing doesn't happen -- the foreign powers don't believe it. Andropov didn't believe (or didn't want to get involved with) Ted Kennedy's proposal (see below). And let's say that Team Trump went to 10 foreign governments -- it would only take one (10%) to blow the whistle on this, and do you honestly thing that we wouldn't be hearing about it?!?
QED they aren't doing it.
Well, he probably is guilty of violating the relevant part of the Logan Act. It's just that that part is probably unconstitutional.
So probably that it's only been used twice in over two centuries, neither successfully, and the last attempt to use it was over 170 years ago.
Yes, because it's been unconstitutional this whole time.
This is the problem with the "Trump is Hitler" crowd. An obviously frivolous accusation damages the credibility of potentially meritorious accusations against Trump. It's the legal version of the boy who cried wolf.
Oh, well, if “several users on an Internet site” speak for the anti-Trump crowd, then it would appear the pro-Trump crowd are in favor of lynching public officials, executing minorities, declaring war on Mexico, nuking Gaza, shutting down all universities and non-conservative media outlets, and nationalizing Disney. And those are all from comments here at the VC! I assume since you base your policy preferences on random internet comments, you are now a Democrat.
"declaring war on Mexico, nuking Gaza, shutting down all universities and non-conservative media outlets, and nationalizing Disney."
And?
Mexico is a failing narco state where the gangs have found smuggling illegal aliens into this country more profitable than smuggling drugs. It wouldn't be the first time we went to war with them, remember Poncho Vila?
Disney should be nationalized -- or lose it's unique privileges. I can't believe they let Steamboat Willie go public domain. And should they have the right to build their own nuclear reactor with no governmental oversight -- they do...
And as to the propaganda mills that higher ed has become, why sould we be subsidizing it? The left wouldn't -- I assure you that the left would never do it.
Hahahaha!
Drewski: If you go by random internet commenters, everyone supporting Trump is totally insane. Surely that can't be?
Dr. Ed: You're goddamn right we're that insane!
Original link may be broken. This one may work better:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/apr/16/tweets/trump-didnt-violate-logan-act-with-reshare-of-old/
Whoops, fixed, thanks!
The Nixon campaign (Ann Chennault) in 1968.
I'm not convinced of that.
The Tet Offensive was January 30, 1968 and it was a major DEFEAT for the NVA/VC which were literally on the verge of surrender.
We know now because their leaders wrote their autobiographies -- they said & were told that if they could just hold on for a little while longer, US support for the war would wane. And it did -- and I don't think that Nixon ever believed it would.
If you remember, Saigon fell in 1975 because Congress would not fund Gerald Ford's desperate plea for arms for the ARVN. Otherwise there truly would have been a lasting peace agreement there.
If you remember, Saigon fell in 1975 because Congress would not fund Gerald Ford’s desperate plea for arms for the ARVN. Otherwise there truly would have been a lasting peace agreement there.
Wow.
And this was supposed to be a good thing?
It was in Korea, and that was the model for the RVN.
Remember that circa 1949, all of the Korean industry was in the NORTH and the south was all poor peasant dirt farmers. The exact opposite of what it is now, ROK was/is a success story, even if they build ships that knock down our bridges.
BTW -- the FBI is investigating the little incident in Baltimore -- Ed may not have been wrong in his initial assessment....
“led several X users to accuse the former president of violating the Logan Act“ Looks like Politifact, but way more so Volokh, have spent an awful lot of words on nothing.
Is it necessary to call the professor on his bullshit at his own blog?
Don't you think he got enough of that from the administrators and mainstream faculty members at UCLA?
On the other hand . . . clingers gonna cling.
All I can say is
You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.
Circa 1979, I remember singing "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran and I wasn't the only one doing it.
Yes, I know the real song was "Barbara Ann" by the Beach Boys, but the lyrics I remember were "just like Japan" and a few other things.
The fact that anyone is seriously considering ANYTHING wrong with Trump's tweet is indication of just how much THEY want a shooting Civil War.
And let us not forget that Ted Kennedy's close friend and trusted confidant John Tunney went to Moscow in 1984 and offered the Soviets a deal -- Kennedy would lend Andropov a hand in dealing with President Reagan if Andropov would lend the Democratic Party a hand in challenging Reagan in the 1984 presidential election.
This is documented in the KGB archives -- https://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html?sh=1d6e9d4a359a
So you want to prosecute Trump for bullshyte like this? Really?!?
Man there have been tons of Logan act violations against Israel lately. I had no idea.
Every major Presidential candidate in living memory has violated it.
But it’s only been unsuccessfully prosecuted once, and, IIRC, in another case around the civil war they started to prosecute somebody, then dropped it. Literally the only reason it’s still around is that it doesn’t get used, so the Court has no opportunities to say, “This is obviously unconstitutional.”
The only reason you ever see it outside of a history book is that every so often some idiot beclowns themself by yelling about somebody violating it.
Honestly, I wish some President would arrange a test case, prosecute somebody to get it in front of the Court, just to render this ancient law completely dead.
IIRC, the FBI cited the Logan Act as a rationale to the FISA court when requesting a warrant against Michael Flynn. Might not be prosecuted in court, but it (Logan Act) sure seems to be a useful tool for the alphabet agencies to surveil anyone they want.
Yes, I'm aware of that. That's one of the reasons I think it needs to be affirmatively killed off, not just be presumed dead.
Put Speaker Johnson on it. He seems to be a guy who can get stuff done.
Maybe it is having his god on his side that makes him such an accomplished, effective leader.
Carry on, clingers.
Literally the only reason it’s still around is that it doesn’t get used, so the Court has no opportunities to say, “This is obviously unconstitutional.”
If the Court (any court) did say that, the statute would still be around, as we've recently been reminded by the State of Arizona.
I suppose technically, yes, but the odds of something as absurdly unconstitutional of the Logan act being struck down and then revived are kind of slim.
And if the Court did suddenly reverse course on a couple centuries understanding of the 1st amendment, we'd probably have bigger concerns.
Wow the Logan Act is not fit for purpose in terms of modern communications. And Trump.
Breaking news- some people on X say something stupid.
Only some?
Well, in this case!
As a general rule, Twitter / X is the opposite of the old carpenter’s maxim of measure twice, cut once.
“Shoot your mouth off twice, check your facts and apologize NEVER.”
The Logan Act is probably unconstitutional, but even if it was good law, this wouldn't be a violation.
The original post was directed, by name, at Rouhani. At the time of the original post, Rouhani was the President of Iran. But at the time of the repost, he was not, and hadn't been for years.
(Pointing this out on Twitter got me blocked by Seth Abramson, who was ranting about how Trump should be prosecuted for this.)
Given the lack of enforcement practice, who knows whether that's the right approach? You might just as easily argue that reposting a post originally directed at the President of Iran in his official capacity is plainly directed at his successor today.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯