The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
"Former Cornell Student Pleads Guilty to Posting Online Threats Against Jewish Students on Campus"
From the Justice Department Wednesday:
Patrick Dai, 21, formerly a junior at Cornell University and originally from Pittsford, New York, pleaded guilty today to posting threats to kill or injure another person using interstate communications….
As part of his guilty plea, Dai admitted that, on Oct. 28 and 29, 2023, he posted threatening messages to the Cornell section of an online discussion forum, including posts that said "gonna shoot up 104 west" (a dining hall at Cornell University that caters predominantly to Kosher diets and is next to the Cornell Jewish Center that provides residential accommodations for students) and "gonna bomb jewish house." In another post, Dai threatened to "stab" and "slit the throat" of any Jewish man he saw on campus, to rape and throw off a cliff any Jewish women he saw, and to behead any Jewish babies. In that same post, Dai threatened to "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you pig jews."
A sentencing hearing is scheduled for Aug. 12. Dai faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, restitution to victims and a maximum of three years of supervised release. A federal district court judge will determine any sentence after considering the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.
You can also see the Information (the charging document), the factual core of which is excerpted above, and the Plea Agreement.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
The case did not go to trial, but does such online hyperbole meet the true threat or recklessness standard of Counterman v. Colorado, 143 S. Ct. 2106, 216 L. Ed. 2d 775 (2023)?
Yes, pretty clearly. Not all of it, mind you, but enough of it.
Unfortunately for you, yes.
None of this seems like hyperbole to me, but I did notice that he didn't seem to threaten anyone or anything specific. Now personally I don't care about that, lock the guy up by all means. But do our First Amendment purist friends think that this is enough of a true threat to pass muster?
Not by name, but a specific group of people in a specific place that he had access to, and posting where potential victims would be likely to see.
I didn't think it's a particularly close call even from a purist POV.
"gonna shoot up 104 west" seems pretty specific to me. Doesn’t specify when, but specifies a location, and the targets are anyone who happens to be in 104 West at the time of the shooting. If I had seen that threat and thought it was serious, I wouldn’t eat at 104 West.
I'd say the line he crossed was threatening a specific place. That forces actual real people to take precautions, change their plans, stop patronizing the dining hall, etc. So it's hardly victimless.
The 1st & 3rd are mass casualty.
Again, I don't know how "legal" it is to do this, but he'd be locked up om that basis without any real evaluation of the ability of the perp to carry out the threat. A few times I have quietly thought "you have got to be kidding" but the paranoia in higher ed is real.
Dai seems to argue mental defect and lack of mens rea.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/10/us-news/cornell-student-patrick-dai-admits-to-making-antisemitic-threats/
Post Virginia Tech. the 1st & 3rd are actionable.
I'm not saying doing so is legal, only that it will be done.
He WILL be locked up, possibly in a psych ward.
Don't worry. He'll get a suspended sentence with no prison time. Is he in jail now, or out on a PR bond?
Doesn't seem like he made bail: "Dai, who has been held in Broome County Jail since Oct. 31".
From the same article "federal prosecutors recommended anywhere from 15 to 21 months following the plea.".
There's no bail or bond in the federal system.
Haha what? Of course there is.
He's facing federal charges. No bail or bond.
https://www.robertguest.com/bail-and-release-pending-trial-in-federal-cases.html#:~:text=Federal%20criminal%20cases%20differ%20from,such%20system%20in%20federal%20cases.
How does that square with the 8th Amendment right to be free from excessive bail? Infinite bail is surely excessive.
Beats me.
MatthewSlyfield’s link is of course wrong—the Bail Reform Act expressly authorizes a requirement to post bail before a defendant can be released—but the idea is that denying bail is not the same as setting infinite bail.
What do you expect from Corn-hole University? One of the Reverend Sandusky's "Bettors" No Doubt
Frank
Another non-MAGA anti-semite committed to Hamas. That's going to confuse the TDS crowd committed to their media concocted stereotypes.
Nobody’s defending this guy. You seem to be the one with confused stereotypes based on your media narratives.
Affleck and Martinned are 100% defending this guy, arguing the statements are protected by 1A, lack of mens rea, impossibility, and "mental defect" which could mean any number of things.
Of course, Affleck is a lunatic and probably a legitimately dangerous person in his own right.
Martinned:
Lock the guy up by all means.
That's not a defense.& like you, I think Jonathan is in his own category. Not even Riva is confusing him with the so-called "TDS crowd."
Randal, you’re either confused or deliberately misconstruing my point. I’m not saying anyone was defending this nut. I’m saying the TDS deranged crowd (assuming this is likely you) constantly accuses those who support President Trump as being anti-Semites when in reality the racist anti-Semites are not MAGA but leftist Hamas supporting nuts like this guy.
Yes, Riva, we already knew that you were confused by the stereotypes derived from your chosen media narratives.
I know you're trying to insult me, but just can't manage to decipher your incoherence. You might want to find a new AI tool to do your thinking.
That doesn't even make sense, Riva. There are antisemitic Trump supporters and antisemitic pro-Arab extremists. Obviously those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Once again, you seem like the only confused one here.
I think you continue to gaslight because that's all you guys can do (or you're still using the same crap AI for your thinking). So you can stop pretending not to understand that my point was the media concocted stereotype is that MAGA supporters are anti-Semites while the reality, however, is that the anti-Semites are pretty exclusively on the left. The college rallies, the media, celebrities all pretty much vile left and pro-Hamas. Are there, statistically, some that aren't? Yeah maybe. But the vast majority? Their actions speak for themselves and belie the media slanders against MAGA.
the reality, however, is that the anti-Semites are pretty exclusively on the left.
That’s your point?
pretty exclusively
? It’s an even stupider point than I’d given you credit for, for two reasons.1. You’ve slipped into equating this guy with “college rallies, the media, celebrities” who are against Israel’s wanton destruction of Gaza but not antisemitic. None of those college kids, journalists, or celebrities are defending this guy. He crossed a line into antisemitic threats that everyone agrees on.
2. Antisemitic MAGA white supremacists haven’t gone away, and Trump hasn’t stopped courting them.
Are you not anti-semitic? I thought the idea that the Jews were responsible for the Great Replacement was almost a mainstream right-wing belief now? Or has it been ushered to the back so you can get on with cheerleading Israel slaughtering Palestinians?
No idea what you’re blabbering about with the “Great Replacement.” Sounds like something that Rev. nutjob would write here. And I never actually heard of an ant-Semite Trump supporter. It would be odd when all the anti-Semites are on the left. But you’re welcome to your little racist conspiracies.
And, yeah, I absolutely support Israel in its fight against the Hamas animals. I hope Biden doesn’t sabotage their efforts to completely destroy them. Support Hamas if you like, it’s all the rage with the vile left.
Really, no idea? And you think pleading ignorance will make everyone else forget it?
President Trump thinks 'real' Jews vote for him and have a loyalty to Israel even though they're American. He's an anti-semite in his own dumb way.
All those screaming hordes blocking traffic in major cities -- who would you say they "have a loyalty to"? The obvious answer would seem to be -- Hamas. Worried at all?
‘would seem to be’ is bearing such an incredibly heavy load there.
I do worry about the radicalisation of young people, though. Look at how radicalised people got over Trump’s obvious bullshit. Imagine how much worse an actual conflict with people being slaughtered daily might be. Lots of impressionable young men got more or less brainwashed into going to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. It tends not to end well for them, and there’s a real possibility they’ll hurt people on the way. War only ever makes things worse.
Mouth breathing leftist, decidedly non-MAGA pro-Hamas morons (in other words, Democrat voters) are out there committing wrongs and you obsess against the one, non-racist, pro-Israel candidate out there? You need therapy.
I doubt anyone who *actually* supports Hamas is a Democrat voter, all things considered, eh?
And we've seen where that evangelical right-wing extremism got Israel, didn't we? Oct 7th and everything after.
Have you remembered what the Great Replacement is yet?
Right evangelicals didn't attack on Israel on Oct. 7. That would be Hamas, the elected governing body in Gaza.
I really never heard of your "Jewish controlled Great Replacement" theory. Like I said, enjoy your little racist conspiracies. Even vile leftist anti-Semites need a hobby I guess.
30-40,000 dead civilians didn't attack either but somehow it's all their fault, not the far-right extremists who were supposed to be in charge of keeping their people safe, backed up by far-right evangelicals.
Always nice to see someone proud of their own ignorance. Especially when they feel compelled to lie that they're ignorant. Suggests a trickle of shame.
Straight from the Hamas Ministry of Health. Any more propaganda from those vile animals you'd care to share? Some staged photos and mourners? Maybe a fake story about a hospital?
Not even you beleve that, be honest for once.
What? Believe Hamas Ministry of Health casualty figures? Hamas produced photos? Hamas propaganda about hospital attacks? No, don’t believe it at all. I do believe there are always civilian casualties in a war. If Hamas cared about civilian casualties they wouldn’t have started a war, taken hostages (which they likely murdered anyway), and used their own people as human shields.
No, you believe that you can magic away appalling casualties just by handwaving and repetition.
Deleted
Why are taking the time to respond to my comment? Won't it make you late for your next vile anti-Semitic pro-Hamas rally? Instead, I think I'll watch the rally being held today by the candidate who isn't trying to help the Hamas animals. The one who isn't a corrupt senile reptile. That would be President Trump.
What, no pro-war rally for you? 'Let's do to Israel and Gaza what was done to Afghanistan! You know it makes sense!'
If there's a rally calling for the utter destruction of Hamas, I might be tempted. I'll leave the anti-Israel and racist antics to the left.
Yes, a pro-war, pro-the killing of thousands of civilians rally, pro leaving a country in ruins, destabilisised, targeted by newly radicalised men and women whose entire families got wiped out by bombs and missiles. Just like pro-war always goes.
I guess Hamas shouldn't have started a war in the most evil, barbaric way possible. And probably shouldn't continue to wage war in the most grossly evil way using hostages, human shields and showing contempt for the safety of civilians victimized by their own rockets. Gaza civilians are fortunate that Israel is responsibly defending themselves by minimizing civilian casualties.
Who are you trying to kid? You're not bright enough to kid yourself, too clumsy to kid anyone else.
Not too insightful a response. I did advise you to get a new AI tool to do your thinking for you.
hm, is that what you rely on? Even it can't come up with arguments *for* escalating a conflict to kill thousands of civilians so it has to rely on basic propaganda? *Look what they made us do!*
Nope, still pretty lame but considering your views, lame is all you've got.
No? Jesus, you don't even have that excuse.
Using obnoxious language like that concludes this for me.
Well, you needed an excuse.
You keep illustrating your stupidity by referring to a non-existent "President Trump," and — as you are wont to do whenever discussing him — simply make up facts to claim that it's standard to refer to a disgraced ex-president that way.
And while I can't speak to his species, he is both corrupt and senile.
I guess you won't be watching or attending President Trump's rally today either? And making up facts about the vile leftist protesters? Maybe you should read some news outside of the first page of a Google search? The complete list of vile leftist antics is actually too long to note in a comments section.
I'm sure Trump will have some rousing words about how he's going to beat Obama in the election and how sexy Cary Grant is.
Still using the same stupid AI tool, huh? probably Google. Well, I did try to help.
Annnd that’s you tapping out, I guess. In your own mind, you just lost a debate with an AI bot.
You're really not too bright are you? I apologize for taxing you to your limits. I'm not accusing you of being some asinine leftist bot. I'm saying you likely rely on some asinine leftist search engines and AI tools to think for you.
And, in your mind, you lost a debate with them. That's much better.
The invention of a way to hate on Jews the old fashioned way, while maintaining a facetious claim it’s about actions, not Jewishness, is a wonderful development!
Clear conscience!
Waaiiiiiit…ancient hatreds of Jews revolves around behavior, not Jewishness per se. Killing Jesus, drinking baby blood, presumably like a vampire, these are actions, just coincidentally associated with Jewishness.
If you want to criticize Israeli actions, ok, but recognize the can of worms festering under the surface you are stirring. Read the boxes above, same historical murder impulse, slight modern twist on words.
I need to say this: Christian theology is that it was CORRUPT BUREAUCRATS who killed Jesus, and that it was contrary to Jewish Law. That's what the issue with the moneychangers in the temple was all about -- Jesus (an observant Jew) was pissed because they were violating Jewish law with impunity.
I thought Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of the rest of us. Us all.
To say he has killed by any group is total misconstruing the event.
I think it was the mob shouting 'crucify him' and letting Barrabas go that made the Jews 'responsible' for killing Jesus. When people say 'ideas never hurt anyone' they're full of shit.
You’re not actually elevating that fairy tale to historical reality, are you? Barabbas (literally ‘son of the father’) is an obviously fictional character – it’s a parable about how gullible people are (they choose the wrong Son of the Father). Mark is a series of parables about the lives of a missionary, not an historical recounting, and all the other gospels are either regurgitations or responses to Mark.
Regardless, Paul says it was demons who killed Jesus, and he’s the earliest writer on the subject we have. In fact, Paul’s the only Christian writer we have extant writings from who was even alive during Jesus’s presumed lifetime (although he admits he never met Jesus, but only saw him in a vision).
(Okay, it is likely the letter to the Hebrews is close to the same era as Paul’s letters, and its author wasn’t Paul, but Hebrews implies and requires Jesus’s sacrifice be in heaven, not on earth. But it’s at least possible that author was also alive during Jesus’s presumed lifetime.)
'If you want to criticize Israeli actions, ok, but' we're going to call you an anti-semite no matter what you say.
'these are actions, just coincidentally associated with Jewishness.'
'Killing Jesus' is practically a myth, drinking blood of children is a libel, the war in Gaza is neither, and Israel is responsible for that, not 'Jews.' Not even every Israeli is responsible, no matter how small the opposition.
Had not seen the actual posts before. That shit is so over the top it reads like a false flag (it apparently wasn't) designed to make the real anti-semites look bad. Hard to imagine the quiet Asian dude actually meant it, yet he wrote it and there it is. I see he claims then-undiagnosed autism as part of his mitigation attempt. Bizarre. 12 months in federal prison and 5 years probation sounds about right.
Dai seems to argue mental defect and lack of mens rea -- maybe satire.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/10/us-news/cornell-student-patrick-dai-admits-to-making-antisemitic-threats/
Not mentioned in the indictment, but this occurred on the "anonymous" forum GreekRank. Periodic reminder: Most people are not as anonymous online as they think they are.
What a day! The Volokh Conspiracy seems to have found a bigot -- one -- it does not instinctively embrace and want to create a space space for.
Feeling jealous?
Of a bunch of bigoted right-wing culture war casualties who operate and adore a white, male, disaffected blog?
No.
He looks Amish....
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/patrick-dai-cornell-student-arrested-71588198.jpg?quality=75&strip=all
Does he?
All Amish look alike to me
From where, the Beijing branch of the Amish group?
That was funny. 🙂
I presume this is sarcastically saying this guy fits a certain visual stereotype of what an antisemite looks like.
I don't see it.
Has Dai undergone psychological examination? His ramblings do not seem to be that of a rational person.
Dai seems to argue mental defect and lack of mens rea.
Please read this article.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/10/us-news/cornell-student-patrick-dai-admits-to-making-antisemitic-threats/
Neither do Trump's, but...
Martinned2: "lock the guy up by all means"
Drewski: "Affleck and Martinned are 100% defending this guy"
How does an ostensibly academic blog attract this concentration of dumbasses?
By design, of course.
Carry on, clingers.
I asked my question because I am involved in a case of alleged threat on a social medium platform -- no other reason. Counterman seems to set a stratospheric bar that must be reached.
Threats like these should certainly be punished!!
But so should actual murders, most of which, at the moment, are being committed by Israelis. Aiding & abetting genocidal and other murders by Israelis also should be punished. Luckily, there exists only an insignificant fraction of the world's population which disagrees.
Perhaps anti-Semitic behavior might decline in proportion to a decline in murders, robberies, and other atrocities by Semites, particularly Israeli Ashkenazim. Perhaps... just maybe.
In parallel, we must begin to ask ourselves if the American Jewish population will remain loyal to America when the time comes to bomb Tel Aviv and/or to place Yasser Arafat's name on what was once called ben Gurion Airport in recognition of the perpetrator of the horrors of the Nakba.
For an interesting perspective on victory, see https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/way-israel-truly-defeat-hamas-ayalon (by Ami Ayalon, former director of Israeli internal security... not one considered by many to be a "liberal"). I do quibble with his assertion that Israel was created as some sort of Jewish sperm preservation territory [and I can say with 100% certainty and absolute documentation that US participation in the post-WWII creation of Israel had no altruistic goal whatsoever], but generally he is spot-on.
I just want to say thanks again to Reason for the mute button.
Gotta do whatcha gotta do to maintain the purity of that information bubble!
'Perhaps anti-Semitic behavior might decline in proportion to a decline in murders, robberies, and other atrocities by Semites, particularly Israeli Ashkenazim. Perhaps… just maybe.'
See? Anti-semites... they don't generally conceal themselves too well.