The Volokh Conspiracy
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State Employer's Requiring Employees to Watch "Antiracist"/"Gender Identity" Videos Isn't Unconstitutional Speech Compulsion
But plaintiff's claim that he was retaliated against for raising religious objections to the training, and discriminated against based on religion as to promotion, can go forward.
From Norgren v. Minn. Dep't of Human Servs., decided Thursday by the Eighth Circuit, in an opinion by Judge Ralph Erickson, joined by Judges Michael Melloy and Davis Stras:
We take the facts from [Aaron Norgren's complaint]…. Aaron, who continues to work at DHS, has served as a security counselor with the Forensic Mental Health Program for nine years….
[Aaron and his father, Joseph, who also worked at DHS, received an email] … instructing him to complete [online] workplace trainings titled, "How to be Antiracist (CRT Training)" and "Understanding Gender Identity and Expression: Moving Beyond the Binary." … Commissioner Harpstead also emailed employees that the trainings were necessary to foster "brave conversations" and "change … minds for life" and DHS Assistant Commissioner Karen McKinney told employees that "we need all of you to do this."
The Norgrens alleged that the trainings instructed employees to speak or refrain from speaking on certain political and ideological matters. For example, the trainings mandated a minute of silence for George Floyd. They also directed employees to stop using the phrase "I am not a racist" as a defense, to admit to a specific definition of the word "racist," to confess to racist policies they supported, and to accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas. The Norgrens alleged the gender identity training instructed them to refrain from telling others that their gender identities are wrong. The Norgrens opposed the racism training as violative of the traditional view of equality under Title VII, and they opposed the gender identity training as contrary to their sincerely held religious beliefs….
Aaron expressed opposition to both trainings to his direct supervisor Robert Schweisthal and to Joseph's supervisor Pherson. He … asked for an exemption from both trainings and was denied … with no right of appeal.
The court rejected the claims that the trainings involved impermissible speech compulsion:
Here, while the pleadings alleged that the trainings advanced expressive messages that the Norgrens objected to, the Norgrens failed to plausibly allege that Commissioner Harpstead compelled them to adopt those messages as their own speech.
There was no allegation that the Norgrens were forced to affirmatively agree with any of the statements in the trainings. There was no allegation that they were threatened with any kind of penalty if they did not observe the minute of silence for George Floyd during the training, if they continued using the phrase "I am not a racist" as a defense after the training, or if they expressed their countervailing viewpoints regarding racism or gender identity in the workplace.
The email directing the Norgrens to complete the trainings only told them to watch the videos to the end and then click the exit button. The allegation that Commissioner Harpstead intended the trainings to change minds for life does not by itself demonstrate the required compulsion.
I think that has to be right, on these facts: Government employers have to be able to require employees to watch various training videos or read training materials, and I doubt that courts can effectively sort ones that have undue ideological content from ones that don't. That is especially so because various kinds of training might have some content that some might view as ideological: Just to take one example, imagine incoming soldiers being required to read books or watch videos that aim to inculcate certain patriotic or professional norms, or for that matter to teach contestable interpretations of the laws of war.
But Aaron also alleged that he was denied an interview for a possible promotion, shortly after all this happened, and that this denial was in retaliation for his religious exemption request, and more generally was motivated by disapproval of his religious beliefs, to go forward; and the court allowed that claim to go forward:
"To establish a prima facie case of retaliation, an employee must show that he engaged in protected activity; he suffered a materially adverse action that would deter a reasonable employee from making a charge of employment discrimination; and there is a causal connection between the protected activity and the adverse action." … If the employee establishes a prima facie case at summary judgment or trial, the burden shifts to the employer to articulate a legitimate, non-retaliatory reason for its action. If the employer meets this burden, the burden shifts back to the employee to provide evidence of pretext….
Regardless of whether Aaron satisfied the technical requirements of the qualifications, he alleged that he had worked at DHS for nine years and had been previously considered for positions with the same required qualifications in the past. Aaron alleged that he met the qualifications …, that he was declined an interview after he filed his EEOC charge, and that DHS deviated from its past practice in choosing not to interview him. His complaint is sufficient to raise a plausible inference of discrimination. His claim is further bolstered by the timing, as only three weeks elapsed between the protected conduct and the adverse action….
DHS's deviation from its past practice, the proximity between the protected activity and the adverse employment action, Aaron's strong employment record and his qualifications, and DHS's failure to offer him an interview despite his eligibility [also] give rise to an inference of religious discrimination. The district court gave too much weight to whether Aaron established the existence of similarly situated comparators because courts generally do not inquire about comparators until the "pretext stage" of the inquiry, which arises at summary judgment….
The court also rejected, on factual grounds, Joseph's claim that his work environment had become so intolerable that he was forced to quit; if you're interested, you can read about that in the opinion.
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"Aaron expressed opposition to both trainings to his direct supervisor Robert Schweisthal and to Joseph's supervisor Pherson. He … asked for an exemption from both trainings and was denied … with no right of appeal."
Now *that's* how to have a "brave conversation[]."
Just out of curiosity, I’m assuming this training was equally applicable to employees of all races. In other words, I’m presuming it wasn’t just (say) whites who were told they were racists.
After all, this employer sounds like an entity which believes in equal treatment regardless of race.
"I’m presuming it wasn’t just (say) whites who were told they were racists."
Why on earth would you presume that?
For purposes of sarcasm, I'd assume.
I do wonder if the court would have considered for even an instant ruling in that manner if you'd inverted the racial component; Subjected the employees to virulently anti-black videos, instead.
Nothing in the OP talks about anything like virulent anti white videos.
The word white doesn't show up until the comments.
Exactly, if they singled out any race, that would be a racially-hostile environment, and that would be wrong. I’m presuming, then, that whites, blacks, asians, aleuts, etc. are all subject to the same hectoring about “don’t deny you’re a racist!”
Relentlessly clueless, are we?
It would be helpful, of course, if we could actually see these training videos, but we already have a pretty good idea of what the genre consists of. Remember all those conversations here about "anti-CRT" laws which really just ban the most virulent sort of racist indoctrination? Sure, you remember.
Here is the part of the OP that goes into the content:
"For example, the trainings mandated a minute of silence for George Floyd. They also directed employees to stop using the phrase "I am not a racist" as a defense, to admit to a specific definition of the word "racist," to confess to racist policies they supported, and to accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas."
You can think that's dumb or not, but none of it appears to be virulently anti-white on it's face.
So you'll just assume it is.
This is you, being clueless, and filling in the gaps in your knowledge with racial resentment.
Its "anti-racist" canon that only whites can be racist, as you well know.
Good ol'gaslighto
It’s even better/stupider than that: the problem, ultimately, is white AMERICANS.
‘… and to accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas’.
It forces viewers to watch a demonstrable falsehood. The history of racism, and the scholarship on it, traces way before the United States. (Did America also invent the wheel? Will revisionists American historians teach students that now, as part of some anti-racist curriculum? Was the thirteen-hundred-year Arab slave trade of Black Africans anti-racist?)
Relatedly, it’s also clearly anti-white: it’s not credibly taken to be implying that non-whites invented racism in America, but rather clearly that, again, falsely, white Americans did so.
All Somin/Sarcastro can do is lie… and propagandize in favour of the national security threats through insecure borders and mass immigration.
"They also directed employees to stop using the phrase “I am not a racist” as a defense"
I try to keep up. If I'm not racist, what should I say?
"Anti-racism" has the same relationship to racism as antimatter has to matter: It's identical except more it's polarity.
Brett, you haven't done the reading. So this says more about you than it does about anti-racism.
I myself have some issues with anti-racism as currently constituted.
It takes a purely disparate impact definition of racism, which is reductive and can be confusing. (to wit - systematic/structural racism is a term that causes more heat than light in many audiences; I might use a different term myself)
The seminal book is about the makings of a radical, but not one who is themselves anti-white, just anti status quo.
Do the fucking reading Brett, or maybe withhold your judgement.
I've read the laws you claim are targeting CRT, (Though they typically don't use the term.) and anybody can read them and see what they actually prohibit is virulent racism. Since you claim prohibiting virulent racism is an attack on CRT, how can you object to characterizing CRT as virulent racism?
I've occasionally linked to CRT instructional materials, like that stupid Smithsonian whiteness chart. Kind of hard to pretend that isn't what CRT is about when major institutions are putting crap like that out, and only pulling it when public outrage forces them to.
Yes, you're right, a major problem with it IS that mindless conviction that all racial disparities are the result of discrimination. But the necessary corollary of that is that racism is omnipresent, because how else can you explain all those disparities?
And since they claim that racism always works in one direction, they inevitably identify whites, specifically, as always racist. Which is exactly why, in the case discussed, employees were directed to never claim not to be racist.
'I’ve occasionally linked to CRT instructional materials, like that stupid Smithsonian whiteness chart.'
How dare they suggest that centuries of US racism have in some way shaped US social and cultural attitudes.
'But the necessary corollary of that is that racism is omnipresent, because how else can you explain all those disparities?'
Well, we now what the disparities were like when it WAS omnipresent, as for most of US history. If the disparities aren't quite as extreme these days, it means it's not quite *omni*present any more.
Did you READ the stupid thing? They were claiming that things like hard work, attempting to be objective, delayed gratification and hard work, and so forth, are "white" traits.
Geeze, if the weren't dissing those concepts, any white supremacist would probably be happy to agree, since what they were identifying as "white culture" were all the traits necessary to lead a successful life.
You were talking about anti-racism above. These things are not interchangeable, even if to you they are because you don't do your homework, and see it all through a haze of resentment.
You don't know what the fuck antiracism is, don't care to learn, so you're trying to switch to something you did manage to read, even if it was like a year ago and your 'oh it will be implemented in a way to avoid all the bad stuff it could cover' remains willfully blind of DeSantis' whole freaking deal.
Digging back up your support of censorship to show you know what you're talking about on race...is a helluva move.
And then you pivot AGAIN to some chart that pisses you off.
You're just hopping from grievance to grievance and getting lesser and lesser in their actual scope. Liberals say silly things about race sometimes, I expect eventually you'll get to something small and local and dumb. And you will declare that anecdote is what's going on nationwide.
With no actual support for your generalization. Because that's how persecutions complexes keep going.
Brett, do NOT waste your time with “Nige” (Ingsoc). He is wholly uninterested in law and knows nothing about actual CRT.
All you need to do is read CRT scholarship, such as Delgado’s and Roithmayr’s, where they explicitly confront the problem of essentialism and indeterminacy for the concept of race. They, and their acolytes, explain IN PRINT why they prefer an essentialist conception: it serves ulterior normative goals—even though it’s not true AND other cannot be squared with their own methodological commitments. Their very operating concept of white is, by their own admission a racist stereotype (even if they'll also use the language of 'white adjacent' or 'white presenting'). They would NEVER accept that, of course, for Black, for Latinx, etc.
Presumably get more specific than such a brief denial.
Do some work.
Certainly it holds true that if you find yourself needing an 'I'm not racist but...' you should probably think hard about that next thing you're going to say and why it's important you say it.
Leftists are all about making accusations of racism unfalsifiable. One of the tactics for accomplishing this is declaring that denying that you're a racist proves you're a racist.
So does having black friends, or being inter-racially married, strangely enough. EVERYTHING proves that you're a racist, if you're white.
Utterly unresponsive to what I wrote.
Nothing but telepathy and resentment.
But then you still believe the Bell Curve is good science, and all the debunkings are based. So you really are committed to thinking blacks are mentally inferior.
Yes, you will have a real issue with being called racist, and 'I have black friends' and 'I am not racist' won't cut it.
But that's a you problem.
It really would depend on what you're defending against, and you should probably be specific about what you're responding to. About the only thing that response would be appropriate for, in part, would be if someone said "You're a racist", and a better response would also include something like "What makes you think that?"
After Richard Nixon said "I'm not a crook", it was not a surprise when he resigned and had to be pardoned less than a year later. But at least he offered specifics when he said that.
That is utter stupidity, if true. IT is the only defense, logically.
For you are racist or you are not racist. You object that there are many races --- and there you fail with no hope of recovery because it isn't that you think all races equal or that other things are more important. IT IS THAT YOU DON"T CARE ABOUT RACE and the training is making you care about race in the name of avoiding racism.
UTTER STUPIDITY
Bare denial is not the only defense; it's a really shitty defense actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AAfgzPOlp8
Ludicrous
It's notable how many want to react, but not engage.
'which really just ban the most virulent sort of racist indoctrination'
There it is. The free speech defenders always have their made-up reasons making it ok to ban stuff they don't like.
Maybe you want to be specific about which of the following you DON'T think are virulently objectionable and racist?
"760.10 Unlawful employment practices.—
(8)(a) Subjecting any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing, or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity that espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels such individual to believe any of the following concepts constitutes discrimination based on race, color, sex, or national origin under this section:
1. Members of one race, color, sex, or national origin are morally superior to members of another race, color, sex, or national origin.
2. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.
3. An individual's moral character or status as either privileged or oppressed is necessarily determined by his or her race, color, sex, or national origin.
4. Members of one race, color, sex, or national origin cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race, color, sex, or national origin.
5. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, bears responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin.
6. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion.
7. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, bears personal responsibility for and must feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress because of actions, in which the individual played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin.
8. Such virtues as merit, excellence, hard work, fairness, neutrality, objectivity, and racial colorblindness are racist or sexist, or were created by members of a particular race, color, sex, or national origin to oppress members of another race, color, sex, or national origin."
Yet again.
Number 2 bans much discussion of the concept of unconscious bias. I don't think the science on that is solid, but that doesn't mean ban it.
Number 3 would ban discussion of intersectionality.
Number 6 would ban speech in favor of affirmative action.
Number 8 would ban criticism of our meritocracy as maybe not being fair.
Actually, the law expressly permits "discussion", it bans teaching these things as true.
‘ espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels ’ is broader than ‘teach as true.’
They're literally just various ways of saying "teach as true". Note the omission of "disputes, denies, casts doubt upon, disparages"?
Yeah, they repeat themselves so much because that's how legislation works.
You are reading the law wrong.
A teacher cannot espouse one side of a political discussion...that is not a discussion.
The law is bad. But it only causes trouble for stuff you don't want to hear about, so to you it's great.
That kind of inability to countenance people who disagree with you (along side paranoia they want to do to you what you want to do to them) is how you keep stumbling into authoritarianism.
Not sure what piont you intend to make but any training that takes a person who has no racial animosity and makes them sensitive to the racial aspects of his job (even if to make sure no legal lines are stepped over) will become race-conscious in a bad way.
"Don't think of pink elephants"
If you're a racism grifter, the worst thing that can happen to you is of people stop caring about race. They literally make their livings off racial tensions, so of course they do all they can to aggravate them.
Yeah, making people notice stuff is bad.
The interesting question is when (not if) that happens.
Don't underestimate the possibility of a second "know nothing" movement in this country, and what are courts then going to do when Black employees (all employees) are subjected to a "niggers are stupid" purported training?
It must suck to be you constantly thinking the future is bleak - in a Chicken Little sort of way.
It's not chicken little, though - he's super duper *into it*.
And writing the N-word.
I wouldn't say he's a happy guy, or having fun. But actually worried about the future he is not.
Why worry? The future belongs to East Asia and they don't believe ANY of your bullshit.
All of this CRT bullshit be washed away as your empire crumbles.
It'll be interesting to watch the (already orthodox Marxist) view become the mainstream amongst the residual leftists: namely, that CRT focuses on the intersections of race, gender, sex, etc, to downplay and ignore class. In other words, CRT is liberal agitprop.
The hard right already believes that as well. The more mainstream right will be saying it over the next five years.
I'm not so sure a second "Know Nothing" era would be bleak.
How will you get the Catholics off the bench?
If you admit as much, will you also admit that 1776 was a mistake?
Dr. Ed 2 is definitely an over-achiever at knowing nothing correct.
Lincoln on the Know Nothing Party
August 24, 1855: Letter to Joshua F. Speed
The American or "Know Nothing Party" was an anti-immigrant political party of the 1850's.
I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we begin by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty-to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.
So, according to the TDS folks, President Lincoln supported Russia, and must have been a Russian agent!! Impeach Lincoln NOW!!!
"For purposes of sarcasm, I’d assume."
Oh. Hard to tell these days.
Why on earth would you presume that?
Because everybody has to sit through this tedious s**t? Like most other employer-mandated training on most other subjects.
Because everybody has to sit through this tedious s**t? Like most other employer-mandated training on most other subjects.
I could be wrong, but I suspect the (possibly sarcastic) question was in regard to the content of said tedious shit, not who was required to sit through it.
About the only tedious shit I have to sit through is how not to drive a fork lift or get run over by one, which chemicals at our plant are dangerous, and the necessity of wearing eye protection while in the machine shop. Not everybody's employer is into this nonsense.
Ah, this old chestnut:
https://vimeo.com/462629145
That certainly would have been more interesting than the security camera footage of actual accidents.
But on matters like gay or trans or any of a number of places where self-identification has force of law --why would YOU presume that.!!
Well we've seen there's a fairly low bar for triggering some white people into claiming someone or something is saying 'all whites are racist.' Just teaching chunks of US history seem to do that.
But of course, the reason for these sessions presumably arise from experiences of employees. You can't magic up a bunch of white people who claimed and adequately proved they were being discriminated against because they were white, or men who were subjected to sexism, or straight people who were subjected to bigotry. Examples probably exist, for sure, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're outliers. Straight white men seem to dislike these sorts of things because a) they're not the victims of these experiences so they're irrelevant to them and b) having to endure these sorts of things are pretty much the extent of their actual victimhood.
None of this means these things are necessarily anything other than arse-covering exercises for companies and corporations unwilling to address institutional problems. On the other hand, who knows? They might shift the culture of some places away from the toxic somewhat.
Since I’m assuming that these training materials are all race-neutral, then that means they’re telling blacks, aleuts and asians not to deny being racist. What’s the benefit in that?
Of course, they’re not going to single out a particular race of employee for special race-based harassment, because that would be a hostile work environment, thus illegal.
So I would never assume that they’re targeting the white employees exclusively with these messages. God forbid!
'then that means they’re telling blacks, aleuts and asians not to deny being racist.'
Gonna go out on a limb and say those people aren't the ones heavily invested in loudly proclaiming that they're not racist. But.
Notice that I questioned the benefit of giving this instruction to nonwhites. But if they're showing it to the whites, they have to show it to other racists themselves, or they'd be racist.
Are you accusing the Minnesota government of singling out its white employees for this don’t-deny-racism training?
Because I’m assuming they’re being legally compliant and showing the training on a racially nondiscriminatory basis.
Or maybe the Minnesota state government should follow its own recommendation and, if sued for alleged racism, fail to deny the accusation.
'Notice that I questioned the benefit of giving this instruction to nonwhites.'
The whites would go ballistic.
'Are you accusing the Minnesota government of singling out its white employees for this don’t-deny-racism training?'
No, I'm just making a point about the people who most experience racism and the people who mostly proclaim that they're not racist at the drop of a hat.
Why would whites go ballistic if nonwhites were told not to deny being racist?
You questioned the benefit of giving this instruction to non-whtes. I reckoned if they didn't, white people would go ballistic. Not all white people, obviously.
You act like it’s optional to do this or not. Singling out one racial group for this sort of training is illegal and racist. The only option is *not* to do it.
"‘Notice that I questioned the benefit of giving this instruction to nonwhites.’
The whites would go ballistic."
Imagine being indignant at the idea of someone taking exception to being singled out by their race for unfavorable treatment. The European mind, ladies and gentlemen!
But they would go ballistic, is what I’m saying, right? I'm not even saying they'd be wrong.
It's the low science education of Libertarians that makes this so tedious
The Myth of Race
The Troubling Persistence of an Unscientific Idea
Robert Wald Sussman
"Biological races do not exist—and never have. This view is shared by all scientists who study variation in human populations. Yet racial prejudice and intolerance based on the myth of race remain deeply ingrained in Western society. In his powerful examination of a persistent, false, and poisonous idea, Robert Sussman explores how race emerged as a social construct from early biblical justifications to the pseudoscientific studies of today."
Harvard University Press
Even the bigots no real bigotry from the fakeo version
If there are no races, then, ipso facto, there can be no racism. And no racial discrimination. Thanks for solving this societal problem!
Then such training in a different racial mix is racist. You admit it.
Are we now to demand a certain ratio so your objection doesn't stand. It's mega-silly
Why would they bring up the first amendment? A hostile work environment would be much easier to prove and justify.
Why ? because under your defense you first have to have some violence...Who wants that??
Materials must be lawful and evenly applied to all employed.
Whether the material is true or factually relevant to one's job could or should be open to examination without any repercussions whatsoever.
To "accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas" in light of its complete vagueness and insincerity would need further delineation before being required "training."
“accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas”
This would be news to the world.
It’s a curiously US-centric position. It’s almost like it’s the latest fad in the battle of white people vs. white people for control of the nation, so they can be elected, so they can be corrupt.
That’s the way of world history.
Now, god damn it. Confess. Confess your sins or you will be put on the rack. I mean fired and caused massive financial pain.
Confess! Nobody expects the American Inquisition!
What, no comfy chair?
You mean the nation, along with Britain, that ended slavery throughout all the world?? Well, except for Muslim slavery, of course. They are exempt.
It needs know add'l anything...IT is completely vague and insincere.. Read your own post !!!!!
Every time you skin your knee do you run to your lawyer. That is what makes America increasingly hard to live in.
2 + 2 = 5
Don't be silly. Everybody knows that 2 + 2 = 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh3Yz3PiXZw
"the trainings were necessary to foster 'brave conversations'"
"Sirx, I am a coward."
Was it his religious beliefs, or his obsolete, antisocial intolerance? If they are one and the same, the trump card should be that superstition neither improves bigotry nor transforms it into anything other that deplorable bigotry.
A superstitious gay-basher, for example, is just another disgusting bigot.
Always hating on other religions, like an Old Testament prophet warning with your vengeful commentary forewarning, like Jeremiah, of the nation's idolatry, social injustices, and moral decay. Gaia Warmism and DEI, as fetishes of the left, escape your watchful eye and are saved from the terrible smiting.
"Therefore Artie inquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the LORD said unto Artie, Go, and smite the Philistines, and save DEI."
Conservatives are the kinds of obsolete losers who want to compel schoolchildren to see the Ten Commandments, In God We Trust, and other superstition-related bullshit in classrooms but can’t abide an employer arranging for employees to watch something designed to diminish bigotry and invidious discrimination in modern America.
This is part of the reason these clowns have been uncompetitive in the culture war for more than a half-century.
What a bigoted stereotype. There are MANY conservatives who wish to see more empirical work done on evolutionary psychology AND for it to be widely disseminated.
It's time for your bigoted, superstitious liberal egalitarian fairy tale to disappear from the world. Are you ready to grow up and face reality? Are you ready for the death of your values?
Superstitions such as the belief in human equality? Free will? That intelligence distribution amongst disparate groups CANNOT be real?
Choose reason, AIDS. Give up your fairy tale that fairies are equal.
Or don't. Your values will be gone from this world within two generations regardless...
Rev insists that a little gay perversion drives out all immorality and makes one tolerant no-bigoted, transformed. There are horrible folks who don't practice perversion, but a little practice of deviancy and you are an angel says , presumably, gay Rev.
Sounds right, no compulsion involved in clicking through training videos, but not being granted an interview is something to be looked at. I have had to groan through these hideous training sessions for years, and long ago stopped complaining about it. But I never did anything beyond the bare minimum requirement, never took the quizzes at the end, never signed any declarations or made any promises, never shared any stories. I was never denied anything that I'm aware of, so no harm no foul. I will say these things are a COMPLETE waste of time and money. This isn't how you deal with problems among colleagues.
I agree with both your 'sounds right' and your condemnation of trainings.
Trainings are just the way to pretend you've addressed a problem; they rarely actually fix anything. But they are easy!
"they rarely actually fix anything."
They "fix" the problem of employers being accused of not doing anything about a hostile work environment.
"We made everyone sit through training telling them no to do that. See, we did something about it."
It is indeed what is incentivized right now. And of course training as solution is a broader issue than just in DEI contexts.
Well, here's a REAL legal question for you, Somincastro:
It seems to me that the comparable online programs I was compelled to do and watch weren't just ideology transmission/propaganda (which they surely were: telling us, via multiple choice questions, which is the 'correct' actions to take), but also seemed to be an attempt to mitigate future liability.
So, if employee/professor X says/does something politically incorrect, the institution can say 'well, we did our best to train X in such matters...'
To what extent would that help an employer's defense when sued by a disgruntled employee by employee X's words in most US states?
What would you say if the trainings instead were "niggers are stupid"?
*I* wouldn't tolerate that -- and I'm not Black
We have only your word for that.
Are you misgendering him/her/it?
.
I'd say informed readers would expect the Volokh Conspiracy to post it promptly!
Some would be repulsed by yet another publication of a racial slur. Others (including the author) would relish it.
.
No doubt -- you are every bit as bothered by racial slurs as the Volokh Conspirators are.
And quite frequently! (Roughly once a week.)
Carry on, clingers.
Somin/Rev: what do you imagine DEI will look like in a Chinese-run world, once America's hegemony is over?
Again, so long as I personally were not required to consent to such a statement I wouldn't feel compelled. But I'd find another employer all the same.
Not everything in life ought to be resolved in a courtroom. Too damn slow, for one thing.
Note that Dr. Ed won't say "bullshit" or "fuck," but has no problem saying the n-word.
He knows the guy whose finger is on the censorship button here.
You both realize that you have no point until we have a legal definion of 'nigger' and that is the silliness that goes over your head.
You can't insult Indians around Sen Warren --- same thing
So institutional racism is fine as long as you agree or don't complain too much in your view. Got it
That's always been true. Welcome to the US. See also sexism and homophobia. A bunch of videos everybody sleeps through doesn't change much.
The government of Minnesota shouldn’t be stingy. It’s showing videos to state employees about how not to be racist, but isn’t it important that ordinary Minnesota voters, too, learn these valuable lessons? Put these videos on state government Web sites so all Minnesotans can be cured of their racism, while confirming that the content of the videos is completely unobjectionable and that there’s no basis for the haters’ complaints.
They also directed employees to stop using the phrase "I am not a racist" as a defense, to admit to a specific definition of the word "racist," to confess to racist policies they supported, and to accept that the United States is the root of racist ideas.
This is absurd and abusive. Short of concrete evidence the State of Minnesota has no way in Hell of knowing whether a particular employee is racist or not. Nor is it qualified to talk about the roots of racist ideas.
The Norgrens alleged the gender identity training instructed them to refrain from telling others that their gender identities are wrong. The Norgrens .....opposed the gender identity training as contrary to their sincerely held religious beliefs….
This I actually have some sympathy with, though not in the context of this kind of training. Employees actually shouldn't go around telling other that their gender identity is wrong. It's not their business. If you think it's OK would you think it's OK for employees to tell others their religious beliefs are wrong?
The Norgrens alleged the gender identity training instructed them to refrain from telling others that their gender identities are wrong. The Norgrens opposed the racism training as violative of the traditional view of equality under Title VII, and they opposed the gender identity training as contrary to their sincerely held religious beliefs….
I suspect the company is equating "telling others that their gender identities are wrong" with "not using their preferred pronouns."
Don't forget the irrefutable claim that AMERICA is the root of racist ideas. Just like how America invented the wheel, and the very ideas of modern science, Nazism, communism, war, colonialism, capitalism, and sexism.
In other words, it’s an anti-racist sandwich, and everyone has to take a bite.
The court got this one wrong big-time. Indeed, forcing taxpayers to PAY for that crap is an open-and-shut First Amendment breach.
And of course, videos that say all whites are racist (or the like) are hostile environment racial harassment. Any employer, public or private, who holds such views should have to keep them to himself in front of his employees.
Yeah, it is....I was a member of a Catholic religious order and we were forced to attend a husband-wife social thought lecture. I brought up that they were using the USCCB politcial view that JPII had criticized, about nuclear weapons,l etc.They admitted it and I was 'the bad person making trouble'
Happened again in a discussion near voting time and it was about the poor and I brought up the duty of voting so as not to harm the poor. Same thing, in reverse.
Yeah, it is discrimination, of course it is.
I think the professor takes a swing and misses with his assertion that requiring federal employees to submit to indoctrination is innocuous, equating it to military service members having to read patriotic literature. Is this an argument for saying that loyalty oaths from the McCarthy Era were o.k.? The courts don't want to draw lines, but if they don't, then anything that doesn't violate freedom of worship is allowable?
>There was no allegation that the Norgrens were forced to affirmatively agree with any of the statements in the trainings. There was no allegation that they were threatened with any kind of penalty if they did not observe the minute of silence for George Floyd during the training, if they continued using the phrase "I am not a racist" as a defense after the training, or if they expressed their countervailing viewpoints regarding racism or gender identity in the workplace.
This is absurd.
If your employer makes you watch a video that tells you to do X, particularly if it does so authoritatively, that's an implicit requirement by your employer that you do X.
What next, the employer sends the employee a letter telling you to do something and the court says "it doesn't count, the letter told you to do it, your employer didn't tell you"?
NEWS FLASH!!!! 8th Circuit affirms Cultural Revolution struggle sessions. Claim they did not create a hostile work environment.