The Volokh Conspiracy
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Requiring Public High School Student to Perform Monologue by Classmate May Be Unconstitutional Speech Compulsion
The monologue was sexually themed, but it's not clear to what extent the court's rationale might extend to situations where a student objects to the monologue for other reasons.
From Judge Jennifer Dorsey's decision today in Evans v. Hawes (D. Nev.):
In March 2022, Las Vegas Academy (LVA) drama teacher Kelly Hawes required her students to write a monologue that would then be performed by a fellow classmate. Hawes reviewed, edited, and approved each monologue, then printed all of them and instructed her students to pick one at random from the pile. Hawes told the students that they could not select their own monologue and "could only exchange a selected monologue one time."
R.E., the minor daughter of plaintiffs Terrance and Candra Evans, did not like the first monologue she picked, so she chose another. Her second pick was written from the perspective of "a girl coming out as a lesbian to her boyfriend." It contained sexually explicit language concerning the girl's interest in her female roommate and her disinterest in having sex with men. "Because R.E. had already used her one and only turn to exchange the first monologue she selected, R.E. believed she had no option but to study, memorize, and perform" the explicit monologue. The plaintiffs allege that R.E. knew Hawes had already edited and approved the monologue and that "her grade was conditioned upon her performing the monologue in front of the class." So R.E. performed the monologue, allegedly not understanding some of the sexually explicit content it contained.
About a month later, Candra discovered the written monologue and confronted her daughter about it. When she learned that it was a school assignment R.E. was required to perform, Candra hightailed it to her daughter's school and spoke to Assistant Principal Joshua Hager. He agreed that the monologue was inappropriate and told Candra that he wanted to meet with R.E. "to let her know that she could tell a teacher 'no'" if she felt uncomfortable with an assignment….
The Evanses sued on various grounds, including that the teacher's actions were an unconstitutional speech compulsion, and the court allowed that claim to go forward:
The Ninth Circuit has not had the occasion to determine which standard should apply to inappropriate speech that is compelled as part of a student's curriculum. I find persuasive the Tenth Circuit's opinion in Axson-Flynn v. Johnson, which grappled with this issue and reasoned that Hazelwood provides the best-fitting framework for this scenario.
In Axson-Flynn, and much like this case, a university theater program compelled a student to perform monologues containing language that the student objected to on religious grounds. The panel determined that the monologue didn't fall under Tinker, as that case addressed "pure student expression that a school must tolerate unless" it leads to a disruption of school activities, but Axson-Flynn's compelled speech "occurred in the classroom setting in the context of a class exercise and did not simply happen to occur on the school premises."
Because the monologue assignments were part of the theater program's curriculum, the Axson-Flynn court applied Hazelwood and found that the school could proscribe or compel that speech if it had a legitimate pedagogical purpose to do so. The court ultimately concluded that "the school sponsored the use of plays with [] offending language in them as part of its instructional technique" to prepare "students for careers in professional acting" and refused to second-guess the "pedagogical wisdom" of that goal. I follow the Tenth Circuit's well-reasoned lead and apply the Hazelwood standard to R.E.'s compelled-speech claim….
Plaintiffs allege that the profanity-laden monologue not only did not advance any academic purpose but "flies in the face of that compelling government interest." They cite to CCSD's policy prohibiting "verbal abuse of a student by an employee," which is defined to include "the use of any form of profanity in the classroom," and to the student code of conduct, which prohibits "content that is profane and/or of an obscene nature," to suggest that CCSD has no pedagogical leg to stand on. While those policies do not directly foreclose the use of profanity in assignments that may serve an academic purpose—for example, having students read a literary classic that contains swear words or sexual themes in order to broaden their perspectives—plaintiffs sufficiently allege that requiring this particular assignment did not fulfill a legitimate educational purpose within the context that it was placed: a high school classroom.
Courts considering whether school-compelled speech serves a legitimate educational purpose have recognized that it depends on the age and maturity of the students involved and their ability to "learn the lessons the [assignment] is designed to teach." CCSD also does not provide the contours of the purported educational purpose that this assignment was meant to fulfill. It instead relies on general statements of law, made in cases dissimilar from this one, cautioning judicial restraint when courts are asked to interfere with a school's curriculum.
But the defendants do not point to any case that holds that courts must simply take schools at their word that every assignment fulfills a legitimate purpose merely because it was on the curriculum, particularly in a situation like this one, in which the type of language contained in that curriculum is similar to language which the Supreme Court has held is a school's prerogative to proscribe [citing Bethel School Dist. No. 403 v. Fraser (1986)]. And plaintiffs have alleged that at least two CCSD administrators agreed that the assignment was inappropriate and may not have complied with school policy, calling into question whether CCSD officials believed that this monologue was academically proper and thus whether it served a legitimate pedagogical purpose. So, at this early stage in the proceedings, I allow R.E.'s First Amendment claim to proceed against CCSD….
Here's more on the court's treatment of Fraser, in which the Supreme Court upheld punishment of a student for the student's own sexually themed speech:
Fraser was concerned with unsanctioned student speech containing lewd language and focuses on the necessity of a school's ability to impose discipline "for a wide range of unanticipated conduct disruptive of the educational process." So it does not provide helpful guidance when analyzing R.E.'s case, in which the school sanctioned a student's explicit speech and allegedly threatened punishment if R.E. didn't comply. However, because this case involve students of approximately the same age as those in Fraser, and given Fraser's focus on the importance of shielding young minds from perverse speech, I keep in mind Fraser's sentiment that "[a] high school assembly or classroom is no place for a sexually explicit monologue directed towards an unsuspecting audience of teenage students," while analyzing R.E.'s claim.
I'm not sure this analysis is entirely correct, but I'm glad that the court recognizes that teachers can generally require students to perform important works even when they contain words or ideas the student disapproves of. I think the court here is influenced not just by the sexually themed character of the compelled speech, but by the speech being required just because it's reading a classmate's work, and not because of any evaluation of the work's literary significance. Query whether that should suffice for concluding that the drama teacher couldn't constitutionally require the student to perform it.
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Sometimes people need to learn the hard way that they alone have the ultimate choice. The student needs to learn to say "No" to teachers, and deal with the fallout.
Ha ha
Remember when you were a kid? Do you really expect a kid to say no to a teacher and deal with (unknown but possibly dire — certainly not “expected”) — fallout?
yeah, that was pretty normal in my family. Parental support was of course available if things escalated, but generally my siblings had a very good idea of when teachers were wildly wrong, the siblings were clearly right, and were reasonably confident that the actual school administrators would back up the siblings if and when the matter was brought before them.
The school administrators almost always did, too.
The most famous example was the idiot high school teacher who thought that 'voluntary moment of silence' meant that he could object to one of my sisters quietly doing homework instead, and attempted a philosophical religious debate on the subject when she politely defied him.
Next day there was a school-wide announcement during the moment of silence reminding teachers that 'voluntary' meant 'voluntary'. We had good schools. I don't think any of MY polite disagreements ever escalated quite that far, though.
That argument seems to have been rejected when a bunch of superstitious jerks jammed an illusory god into our Pledge of Allegiance and thereby into classrooms -- including at legitimate based on reason, science, and the reality-based world --throughout the United States.
We all thank God that we didn't have MR Hate Kirkland to force atheism on us by saying "only stupid people believe in God but you are free to believe"
IN my highschool they'd have beat Kirkland up and then had a beer.
Yes, I do, and yes, I did. Besides explicitly saying no, there are a zillion ways to not do things the brass tell you. I applied the same learned lessons while in the Navy.
Just as one simple example, one history teacher assigned 3-4 pages to read each night and take notes on, then he would read those same pages to us, and we were supposed to take more notes. At the end of the semester, I had taken no notes, and yet still managed an A. I did not tell him No, I simply did not do it, and I did not care what the consequences were, because I had better things to do.
An English teacher wanted some analysis of some poetry. I didn’t do it, and told her I didn’t do it and wasn’t going to do it.
It doesn’t take any outstanding courage or guts. Maybe it just takes a bit of self-esteem. I don’t know.
This is so stupid. All the teacher had to do was have a non-explicit option available. But they were inflexible and now it is a federal case.
I’m guessing that the teacher feared editing speech on sexual/gender-identity by the student who wrote the monologue more than asking another student to read said monologue. Or, they were militantly supporting sexual/gender-identity speech as “normal”, despite the profane vocabulary used in a school setting.
Or they just pencil-whipped reviewing the student submissions. or just forgot that the wrong submission might wind up in the wrong student's hands.
From the sound of it, the student in question took the "no more than one trade of a bad monologue" rule VERY literally, and never actually TOLD the teacher that she had moral objections to her second choice.
Teachers making those sort of absent-minded 'failure of leadership' mistakes is INCREDIBLY common.
Is there a right to have 8th Graders perform O, Calcutta?
You miss the points on both sides. As soon as law gets in, lawyers get in, then sophists galore and a school play is another costly and red-tapey disaster. Give parents school choice and those schools will CLOSE>
Where the hell was the principal???
Couldn't any rational educator see this one going bad?
The principal did see it going bad.... as soon as he was informed. The legal defense issues aren't the principals call.... now the question is how much in damages the school may need to pay. Presumably, the School Board decided not to settle for some reason.
"I'm glad that the court recognizes that teachers can generally require students to perform important works even when they contain words or ideas the student disapproves of"
Is it OK to force a student to read the passages of Tom Sawyer that contain the word "Nigger"? Is it OK fo force a student to say that word out loud?
It would depend on the nature of the class, and the age of the student...
If we're talking about a college theater class clearly labeled as "Theatrical Productions in the 1860's era, unexpurgated", then yeah. You signed up for the class, and presumably relevant warnings were clearly posted in the syllabus on the first day. either Drop the class or bring your "A" game.
No, it wouldn't. In Loco Parentis and parents pissed off makes the student irrelevant and Ma and Pa footing the huge education expenses totally relevant.
I tell my classes that when someone like you opposes a silly contracfactual hypothetical to make their case, THEY"VE LOST.
In a nation where this goes in a thousand permutations it is not like theater class. And logically you are saying that being a theater clss no rights could be violated. How silly. You want me to be in Hair' so I have to be naked and that makes you right and me wrong. Silly
Perhaps it would be just fine. The whole point of learning to act is to ACT, to learn how to convincing pretend you are a character. The greater the character challenge to your own values and prejudices the harder the test is of your skill and ability.
As a four year drama student in high school, and a conservative in the era of the new left, I had to learn and show the ability to emerse and convey the character no matter who they were.
And in this case, if you can't handle a character then get another and take the grade penealty for your failure. And everytime you refuse, expect a one grade reduction. That would be most fair, no?
It seems inappropriate; I will leave it at that.
But it brings to mind an open-ended question. In a drama class, is every assignment to read a script aloud unconstitutional forced speech? Why or why not?
My answer would be that even dramatists get to turn down scripts. Maybe that takes care of it. But the notion of scripts does seem in tension with the notion of unfettered speech freedom.
The question of whether or not it's 'forced' probably depends on whether or not the student signed up for the drama class voluntarily in the first place, or if it was a mandated part of the state curiculum.
Although if you want a really interesting question.... should gym class count as a type of forced labor? I could see that argument...
You generally don’t have a first amendment right regarding curricular speech. Asking a student to write the correct answer on a math test is compelled speech.
The limits on this are not well fleshed out. Axson-Flynn recognizes that a teacher specifically targeting a student with an assignment to compel speech they disagree with might be a first amendment violation as lacking a pedagogical interest. There may also be an argument that punishing a student for on-topic discussion of an issue that the teacher disagrees with could constitute viewpoint discrimination in certain instances. But if a teacher has a quiz and the correct answer to “why did the confederate states secede?” is “slavery”, it’s not a first amendment violation to mark the answer as wrong if the student answers differently.
Well, I mean, we don’t CALL it a first amendment violation, but I’ve seen some REALLY extensive and well-founded student complaints to those sorts of questions, when the questions arguably have multiple correct answers.
For the question of “why did the confederate states secede?”, I would also expect the teacher to accept “Because the South lost Bleeding Kansas”, “Because Lincoln was elected”, “Because Popular Sovereignity didn’t work”, and “Because they didn’t dare accept the consequences of NOT following South Carolina.”
If the teacher REFUSED to accept those answers…. again, we wouldn’t normally CALL it a free-speech issue, but there has to be at least one prior incident where ‘multiple correct answers’ to a test question got escalated up to the lawsuit level. America is just too litigious NOT to have done that by now.
I think there is a distinction between bad teachers and First Amendment violations. When it comes down to it, you cannot grade students without evaluating the content of their speech. Whether it’s the answer to a math question or the quality of their essay on Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act. In most contexts, content based regulation of speech by the government is presumptively unconstitutional. That framework cannot work in the context of curricular speech. So while we would hope that teachers aren’t lazy, or didactic, there isn’t a First Amendment framework that can be applied as a workable rule for classroom speech in most cases. There is no articulable standard between “I got a bad grade on this essay because I did a lousy job on it” and “I got a bad grade on this essay because I argued that immigration restrictions are good and my teacher is an open borders advocate.”
Any answer other then "slavery" would be wrong.
how do you figure?
That's not a compelled speech issue. A compelled speech argument is the student has the right to say "I refuse to be compelled to answer this question, but would like the question to be marked correct regardless."
THe correct answer on a math test isn't speech, it's the correct answer. Surprise. As to the slavery answer it isn't whether it is wrong, it's whether it is defensible.
Get that , folks. 'Generally" -- Enter the 'Expert' 🙂
For the record, I’m not absolutely certain that schools CAN require students to read truly objectional things aloud…. if the students are minors, and the course in question is mandatory.
For voluntary theatre courses, with parental advisories if applicable, the teachers would have… more…. power on that subject.
I think we could easily go to an ad absurdum with this. Could a student be assigned a script to kiss or undress on stage with threat of failure if they declined? Obviously not. No matter if it's an elective or not. Therefore, the question is where this line is crossed.
I see this as being morally inappropriate, and this could have and should have been stopped on the teacher or dean level. However, I don't know if it crosses the line to being illegal. I would definitely need to know more about the speech in question.
Could a kid be ordered to recite a Christian tenet? How about a Muslim one? Or an atheist one? Or something else?
It may not even be offensive, like the Golden Rule or be ye kind.
Maybe. If it was a comparative religion class, and the teacher filtered out all the most OBVIOUSLY offensive ones.... a rote memorization test MIGHT pass the cut. Would have a better chance if the student got to pick from a list.
Sure, why not, assuming that it's relevant to the class (IOW, not in a Physics class or something) and assuming that the student isn't asked to agree with it? It would be hard to understand (say) the Reformation if one didn't know what the different groups believed.
Reciting and learning what others believed are not the same thing. The latter has serious educational purpose. The former not so much.
Huh? Reciting what one has learned is part of class. Sometimes orally, sometimes in writing. How would the teacher even be able to grade you unless you did so?
It was the sole issue when Harvard tried to deny Kurt Wise a PhD because though he knew Evolution as well as anoyone,he didn't believe it.Stephen Jay Gould stepped in and defended him.
In some contexts, "recite" has a definite religious context. For example, I've been lead to understand that a common part of a bat mitzvah is for the young man to recite some part of the torah.
In most classrooms, "recite" does not have a religious context, and is just a demonstration of what you have learned. In this context, having a student recite from Leviticus has no more first amendment impact then having them recite from Jabberwocky.
Which isn't to say that it can't have religious significance, but that really comes down to whether the teacher is teaching "this is what is" or "this is what adherents of faith X believe". The former is not supposed to happen in public schools (in the USA), while the later is dandy as candy.
I think that's often an Establishment Clause question rather than a compelled speech question.
For compelled speech with a religious component, can a student be compelled to say: "We hold these truths to be self-evidence, that all men are created equal, **that they are endowed by their creator** with certain unalienable rights"?
Not in any universe is that true 🙂
The student's country holds that so what possible point does a student not accepting it even mean? Maybe you'd like to sue Jefferson.
I think the question isn't whether the student could be assigned to kiss or undress on stage and more whether it is a violation of the United States Constitution (with appropriate remedy) as a consequence of it. If it weren't for sovereign immunity, that would otherwise just be a straightforward (or relatively straightforward) application of tort law, but not at all a federal question. However, because states don't like you suing them when their employees act wrongfully, the question becomes whether the United States Constitution prohibits this conduct. That's a less clear question even if the morally right answer is obvious.
Let me rephrase. I don't see how this is a constitutional case at all.
All of you are forgetting that fact that this is a drama school. It's not compelled speech to state how she believes. It's compelled speech to say what her CHARACTER believes. That's a completely different circumstance.
The question then becomes if this is an inappropriate assignment. That distinction between appropriate and inappropriate should clearly be laid out in the school's rules. Even if this did go to court, it would be a workplace harassment situation. The constitution just isn't involved.
The Constitution protects the morally right answer -- and guess who gets that call? PARENTS
"I may have not learned math, history, writing, or literature while in school, but I did get to pretend I was a lesbian."
. . . and to pay homage to a fake god every morning in homeroom!
"fake god"--isn't that a redundant term?
it is, like 'Convicted Sex Offender Jerry Sandusky'
No.
Not nearly.
No,logically you are wrong on 3 counts.
YOU need to state the referent to the word 'God"
YOU need to distinguish what your school requires from what you wish it required.
YOU ,and not anyone for that matter,can compel all others in every case to conform to what you want.
By your standatds, refusing to use a same-sex bathroom is anti-LGBTQ and must have legal consequences.
Hey Jerry, I'm the one mocking Hey-Zeus in the room
And that would be my take as a federal judge--why is this here? While teachers may be avant-garde, they ought to know that not all of their students are. Some people are shy about those things; others aren't.
That has 2 logic errors , of course. Avant-garde cannot be equated to shyness or lack of shyness. And you have a judge and a teacher and leave out students and parents. I ask you,WHO IS PAYING THE BILL?
The problem seems to be the school-inappropriate language in the monologue, not the content necessarily. I can certainly see the pedagogical value in having a student prepare and deliver a monologue from a perspective that the student doesnt endorse. Being able to empathize and understand other perspectives has obvious value to the student herself and society as a whole, even if this exercise was done in an improper way.
Being able to empathize and understand other perspectives [...]
Doens't sound like the assignment. The assignment was to perform. You can perform without understanding or empathizing at all. Any actor that claims otherwise is a shitty actor.
You violate your own standard !!! And that is why you use the word 'SEEMS' !!! YOu illustrate inability to understand another persepective or to empathize. I doubt any intelligent student would locate their objection in YOUR view of what perspective and empathuy is
Yeah, the court seems to have under read Axson-Flynn. The key to that case was that plaintiff plausibly alleged that the teacher had targeted her for the specific performance based on her being a Mormon and wanting her to say curse words. This is similar to the Texas teacher who targeted the student who refused to say the pledge of allegiance with an assignment requiring her to write the pledge of allegiance. Targeting a specific student to compel speech they disagree with is the sort of thing that lacks a legitimate pedagogical interest.
This doesn't look like compelled speech to me. Not at all.
It could hardly be plainer that the monologue did not express the student's views, any more than playing Richard III makes one a murderer.
A further question:
R.E. is described as a "minor child." That covers a lot of territory. How old was she at the time?
Whatever the legalities I'd criticize the teacher if R.E was a ninth-grader, but not if she was a high school senior.
But NO ONE ever objected to playing Richard III !!! That kind of nonsensical BS is called hiding your conclusion in your premise.
My Junior High School Drama class was never quite like this. My breakout role was the avaricious Neurosurgeon Dr. Beckman in 'Hans Brinker and the Silver Skates'. The teacher was a young chick with big aspirations, setting the key Race scene to the theme from Hawaii Five-O, unfortunately she didn't have the rights and we had to do it acapella for the actual performances,
Frank 'Best Boy' don't get excited 'Reverend'
Why isn’t every book report, paper, test, or class participation requirement a school ever requires of a student an unconstitutional speech compulsion? If not, what distinguishes this from any other assignment requiring speech or writing?
Or does an assignment become unconstitutional only when a federal judge disagrees with it, i.e. decides it doesn’t fulfill a “legitimate educational purpose?”
The same broad, forgiving view of rational basis that has compelled me, as I’ve written in the past, to conclude that sodomy laws have a rational basis, also compels me to conclude that this assignment has a rational basis, unwise and impolitic as it may be. My view that federal judges shouldn’t be quick to constituionalize their own views of morality or to impose their views on the elected branches compels me to conclude that they should also not do so here.
The assignment might indeed have a rational basis, but why would you think the rational basis test would apply in a free speech context?
Because that’s the test the judge applied, based on circuit precedent. School assignments pass scrutiny if they serve a “legitimate pedagogical interest.” That’s a rational basis test. The judge here concluded this assignment didn’t serve any legitimate pedagogical interest. It’s an unwise assignment, an impolitic assignment, but it isn’t disconnected from a legitimate pedagogical interest.
I also think rational basis is the correct test. It’s not clear to me government has a compelling interest in operating a school system in the first place, or in assigning anything at all. Schools are a social welfare program. And I think social welfare programs in general, being completely optional things for governments to do, serve only legitimate state interests, not compelling ones. So I think under a compelling interest standard, schools would always lose, and nobody who could afford a lawyer would ever have to do any homework, take any tests, etc.
Easy to answer, as 3 approaches show you misunderstand the situation: 1) No one historically does protest a book report as a unconstitutional ,so your examples are what historians or logicians call "fallacious comparanda"
2)It is , as a matterof legal reasoning, objectionabel to argue that ALL must conform to the one standard. All class participation must be legal or NO class participation is legal.
3) Sodomy is perversion and I am sure you would not right a paper , take a test, or in anyway allow that it is perversion
QED
Here is an example, by the way, of when qualified immunity does make sense. (When I read the story, I thought, "What about QI?" and then I read the decision, and in fact much of the suit was tossed on QI grounds.)
This — whether a teacher can compel a student to read such a monologue — really is a totally unsettled area of the law, and even if a teacher consulted a lawyer in advance (which would be an absurd requirement) the lawyer couldn't actually give a definitive answer.
Geez. Ask the kid if they’re comfortable reciting the work. If not, assign them something that they’re willing to do.
Mrs. Wormwood! Math tests make me feel uncomfortable! I’m willing to draw pictures of dinosaurs in the margins of the test. So I’ll do that.
Gee, if only we we were willing to teach kids about their own rights, how to question authority, and how to stand-up for themselves.
But this country has far too many folks that would rather keep kids ignorant so they don't know that they can say "no" to an adult, all out of fear that those kids will say "no" to them.
Which is to say... I don't know how this is going to turn out legally. But I do know that a girl who has been raised to be so cowed by authority that she won't even raise a complaint with the teacher isn't going to be a girl that knows how to say "no" in the many far-worse situations she might fight the need to do so.
And it's not like you can't teach kids how to say "no". In most cases, you have to beat it out of them.
Again, while I don't agree with Clarence Thomas on much, the more of these lawsuits that I see, the more I am beginning to think that he might have a point with his whole, "Screw those kids. Back in the day, if a school was a fire hazard, kids would shut up and burn to death, and that's just what happened. Suck it up, buttercups," opinion on K-12 speech.
Which he NEVER said, of course.
Clarence Thomas would disagree with you in 4 respects ( I know this from years of studying his opinions)
1) A legal action is not necessarily a smart or defensible or societally-approved action, it is merely 'constitutional'
2) Saying something is constitutional is NOT saying you agree with it.
3)CT left a couple schools on the OPPOSITE grounds you attribut to him, including the SEMINARY !!!
4)If a chool was a fire hazard was not as 'important' as was it integreated. Not by a mile. And the argument would actually be "Look those Black schools, even the HBCU's must be inferior overall (fire hazard being part of that) so let's FORCE integration.
Drop the Creative Writing and get some Logic and facts
"Similarly, the California Court of Appeal upheld the expulsion of a student who gave a speech before the student body that criticized the administration for having an unsafe building “because of the possibility of fire.” Wooster v. Sunderland, 27 Cal. App. 51, 52, 148 P. 959, (1915). The punishment was appropriate, the court stated, because the speech “was intended to discredit and humiliate the board in the eyes of the students, and tended to impair the discipline of the school.” Id., at 55, 148 P., at 960.
...
Second, some cases involved punishment for speech on weightier matters, for instance a speech criticizing school administrators for creating a fire hazard. See Wooster, 27 Cal. App., at 52–53, 148 P., at 959. Yet courts refused to find an exception to in loco parentis even for this advocacy of public safety."
Morse v. Frederick, 551 U.S. 393 (2007) (Thomas, J., concurring).
Thanks for playing!
Well, the situation is a bit strange, as I think a lot of time is spent not on studying, but on analysing a situation. I think it would be better to spend all your energy and inspiration on studying, not just talking. When I was studying, the problem for us was that it was difficult, and the students could not withstand the workload. That's why order a coursework was the way out of the situation, because it was the only way out of the situation. The fact that help was provided made the students more grateful and happy. And in general, they paid more attention to their studies rather than to what someone said.
Well,someone is trying to hide :)”It was sexually themed but…”
—Is that you, Ketanji, sounds like your reasoning.