The Volokh Conspiracy
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ADA Doesn't Require Employer to Keep Customer-Facing Employee Whose Tourette's Leads Him to Use Slurs
The court reasoned that "excellent customer service is an essential function of [the employee's] specific delivery merchandiser position," and the employee couldn't provide it.
From Cooper v. Dolgencorp, LLC, decided Thursday by the Sixth Circuit, in an opinion by Judge Mathis, joined by Judges Moore and Murphy:
In 2016, Cooper began working for CCCI as a delivery merchandiser [who delivered products to customer stores]. Prior to CCCI hiring Cooper, he had already been diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome. Tourette Syndrome causes unwanted, involuntary muscle movements and sounds known as "tics." For Cooper, his Tourette Syndrome has a rare tic symptom known as coprolalia. The condition causes Cooper to use obscene and inappropriate vocalizations, including profanity (bitch) and a racial slur (nigger)….
This led to repeated customer complaints, and eventually led Cooper's employer (Coca-Cola Consolidated, Inc., or CCCI) to reassign Cooper to a lower-paying non-customer-facing warehouse position, $18.96/hour instead of $20.38/hour. (Cooper's doctor had concluded that Cooper could work as a driver, but "Needs to be present with another driver," presumably because that was the only way he could avoid customer contact.)
Cooper sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act, under which
(1) The plaintiff bears the burden of establishing that he or she is disabled. (2) The plaintiff bears the burden of establishing that he or she is "otherwise qualified" for the position despite his or her disability: (a) without accommodation from the employer; (b) with an alleged "essential" job requirement eliminated; or (c) with a proposed reasonable accommodation. (3) The employer will bear the burden of proving that a challenged job criterion is essential, and therefore a business necessity, or that a proposed accommodation will impose an undue hardship upon the employer.
The court concluded that CCCI was entitled to summary judgment:
[Cooper] argues that he was otherwise qualified for the delivery merchandiser position without an accommodation. If this is true, then CCCI's decision to transfer Cooper to the warehouse because of his disability was discriminatory….
The parties do not dispute that Cooper's Tourette Syndrome with coprolalia qualifies as a disability….
We must answer two questions to determine whether Cooper was otherwise qualified for the delivery merchandiser position without an accommodation. Was excellent customer service an essential function of Cooper's position at CCCI? If so, could Cooper perform that function without CCCI changing his job duties in any way?
We answer the first question in the affirmative—excellent customer service is an essential function of Cooper's specific delivery merchandiser position. As a reminder, not all job functions are essential. Such functions "may be considered essential because (1) the position exists to perform the function, (2) a limited number of employees are available that can perform it, or (3) it is highly specialized." Congress has instructed courts to consider "the employer's judgment" in determining the essential functions of a job. A written job description is "evidence of the essential functions of the job."
CCCI identifies "[e]xcellent customer services skills" in its written job description for the delivery merchandiser position as part of the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to perform the job. And, crucially, Cooper stipulates that excellent customer service was an essential function of the delivery merchandiser position. Our analysis of the first question ends there.
We next consider whether Cooper could provide excellent customer service to CCCI's customers without an accommodation…. A reasonable jury could not find that Cooper could provide excellent customer service to CCCI's customers in his role as a delivery merchandiser without an accommodation. Of particular importance, Cooper's own doctor noted that Cooper needed an accommodation to perform his job duties. When a plaintiff's own doctor—not merely the defendant employer—concludes that the plaintiff cannot perform his job without an accommodation, the plaintiff likely cannot establish that he is otherwise qualified to perform the job without an accommodation.
Cooper's disability, moreover, caused him to vocalize racist and profane words in the presence of others in the stores of CCCI's customers. At various times during his employment, CCCI's customers complained about the language he used while delivering CCCI's products. In fact, Cooper acknowledges many of the customer complaints made against him in his amended complaint….
Cooper makes several arguments in response…. [Among other things,] Cooper argues, relying on Taylor v. Food World, Inc. (11th Cir. 1998), that a material factual dispute exists regarding whether he could provide excellent service to CCCI's customers without offending them. Taylor does not help Cooper. In Taylor, a minor, who had been diagnosed with Asperger's disorder that caused him to engage in echolalia (repetitive speech), worked as a clerk for Food World bagging groceries and taking groceries to customers' vehicles. Food World terminated the minor after receiving complaints from customers about the minor "speaking loudly and sometimes asking customers personal questions." The Eleventh Circuit reversed the district court's grant of summary judgment to Food World, finding there was a factual dispute about whether the questions the minor posed to customers were offensive. But here, there is no reasonable dispute that Cooper's use of racist and profane language was offensive.
This case is more like Ray v. Kroger Co. (11th Cir. 2003) ….. In Ray, the plaintiff, like Cooper, had been diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome with coprolalia. Ray worked as a grocery clerk for Kroger, which placed him in regular contact with Kroger's customers. The job required Ray to interact with customers without offending them. Ray was unable to do so because he used decipherable racial slurs, which offended some customers. The Eleventh Circuit found that summary judgment in Kroger's favor was warranted because Ray could not perform an essential function of his job….
The court also concluded that there were no non-customer-facing delivery routes available, so assigning Cooper to such a route wouldn't have been a viable reasonable accommodation.
Jeffrey D. Patton of Spilman Thomas & Battle, PLLC represents CCCI.
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If you're looking for precedent, I think there was an LA Law episode on this.
The distressing issue of course is the ADA does not take into account other employees who have to put up with this worker. How long before a fellow worker sues their employer for a toxic work environment and will the ADA protect the employer? It is a lose lose situation but there are people whose handicap makes them not employable when that work requires working with other people
Take it one step further -- there are some people with a high startle response for a variety of reasons including PTSD. What's going to happen when such an employee raises his own discrimination complaint? Or worse, seriously injures a third party (e.g. with forklift) as a result of being startled?
And someone with Tourettes this severe ought not be driving, let alone driving a truck! Random spastic arm movements, now how could that go wrong? Or random head movements when you need to be watching your mirrors...
And who would pay the mental health bills of the person stuck in the cab of a motor vehicle for 8-10 hours a day with this person???
People with Tourettes have some control over it and they don't want to -- I view it as the PTSD vet attacking a co-worker because of, well, "disability."
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
FUCK YOU.
My only hope is that it is you in the oncoming lane when the Tourette jerks and the 80,000 lb truck crosses the yellow line...
Wrong, and bloodthirst about it.
This is why no one here likes you.
I'm out of the closet MAGA in academia --- do you really think that bothers me?
You're not in academia; that much is extremely clear from your posts.
That and you've had at least one run-in with some involuntary mental health treatment thing.
Really, Gaslight0?!?!
As to the latter, did you ever notice that I mentioned how I was an advisor and it was my advissees who did?
+1, Gaslightr0 lol.
The employee would presumably have a valid driver's license; being able to drive in a job that requires driving would have to be an essential condition of employment. The doctor's comment "Needs to be present with another driver" does not suggest that the doctor thought he was unable to be a driver.
The murderous rage of Dr. Ed 2 is indeed a spectacle, and one has to wonder if it endangers his fellow janitors.
Facts not in evidence.
Unless you know WHY the doctor said "needs to be present with another driver" you have no basis for your conclusion.
And remember this is the same doctor who said he could be a salesman so shouting "nigger" isn't why he needed another driver, unless the expectation was that the other driver (paid the same) would do ALL the unloading of the truck. Would you?
I'm of the opinion that the need of the other driver was to grab the wheel when he did something stupid. And you can't prove me wrong on that.
Yes, I can. Because that's not how cars work, and it's not how the ADA works.
Now, if you only had someone near you to grab the metaphorical wheel before you posted something stupid.
OK -- I have to be careful because this is a true story but I was representing the Social Studies Department at an IEP for a child who had difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality. He would switch back and forth between the two -- I genuinely forget why.
The school psychologist wanted to make him a truck driver. I was the only one there with a CDL and I asked her if she had any idea just how easy it was to snag a compact car with the rear axles of a trailer truck. (She didn't know.) I continued that if he happened to be in fantasy mode when changing lanes, he could wind up dragging a gristly mess down the highway until the state police stopped him at gunpoint when he got to the tollbooth. (Which they would...)
She quickly changed her mind -- I'll give her credit for that....
I have no doubt that you couldn't get a CDL vehicle out of the parking lot, so stop pretending you know anything about them.
Dr. Ed 2 does not usually feel a need to be careful, so we can conclude ...
Dr. Ed 2 having a CDL (if that is true) suggests that this difficulty he shares is not disqualifying.
That's too bizarre to be libelous.
I'm still wondering which state he thinks lets school psychologists hand out CDLs.
It makes perfect sense to have non-discrimination laws that cover cancer, PTSD, epilepsy, all that. A coworker's disability might affect other employees, but largely tangentially or in the way anything else does (e.g., you lose a fellow employee to a competitor and everyone has more work while you wait for the position to be backfilled).
But… but… you’re suing Coca-Cola for trying to protect its employees and customers from profanity and verbal abuse? How? Why?
If this wasn’t made explicit in the ADA, it’s probably because the people who wrote it couldn’t even contemplate that this would be an actual issue.
How are involuntary spasms verbal abuse? Generally, antidiscrimination laws people with specified characteristics from discrimination based on the fact that customers or coworkers find those characteristics distasteful. Why should it be different in this case?
Content neutrally, being exposed to loud noise without proper hearing protection is not only an OSHA violation but shown to raise blood pressure and otherwise be harmful.
I can see people being injured by being forced to work with a Tourette and suing for THAT.
Is there anything in the record that says that this guy's spasms were in violation of workplace noise limits?
You go start shouting in your workplace and tell me how it works out.
Dunning and Kruger are basically just suicidal at this point.
1. There was no OSHA issue here.
2. This case is not about yelling.
3. Yelling is not an OSHA violation.
4. You can't sue your employer for an OSHA violation.
5. In fact, you can't sue your employer for getting injured at work at all.
And you claim to be a real lawyer?
Worker's Comp cases ARE a form of lawsuit.
It's actually NIOSH regs OSHA uses and 85 dB which shouting exceeds.
Other employees can bring ADA suits.
And you really passed the Bar Exam?
Did you not notice the part where it said "Tourette's with coprolalia"??
Or were you just too eager to join rhetorical battle to actually find out what was being discussed?
Wjat I find amazing is that Deaf people with Tourette’s with coprolalia swear in ASL -- they hand sign it...
“How are involuntary spasms verbal abuse? Generally, antidiscrimination laws people with specified characteristics from discrimination based on the fact that customers or coworkers find those characteristics distasteful. Why should it be different in this case?”
Coprolalia is often typified by exactly the kinds of utterances that people emotionally interpret as “hostile.” As well, those kinds of utterances have been interpreted, in the workplace, as indicative of hostility.
Here, one would dismiss those same utterances as not being indicative of hostility? Based on what? He has coprolalia? Sure.
But make no mistake about it: you will have an environment that feels hostile to normal people. Those feeling of hostility will not be reserved to “oversensitive” people, but to a much wider range of people.
And you probably won’t be able to make those feelings of hostility go away, even if coworkers are educated about coprolalia. The condition, in my observation, is not just random profane utterances, but pointed language connections between cultural taboos and particular identifiable characteristics of people who are within immediate proximity. “Don’t tell me he doesn’t mean it. He’s talking shit about about ME!”
I have a friend who I believe has coprolalia. (I’ve never discussed it with him, but it’s pretty unmistakable.) He’s a very nice, very gentle man. But you should hear the things he blurts out, at the worst possible times, with the worst possible words. It’s a very humbling and significantly humiliating experience to walk with him in New York City. There are street acquaintances of mine that saw me enjoying myself with “that disgusting man,” and who never smiled with me again after seeing that.
It’s funny to me that many of the people who advocate, in theory, for tolerance of these disabilities are precisely the kind of thin-skinned people who, in practice, have difficulty tolerating such offensive, I mean unusual, behaviors.
"Those feeling of hostility will not be reserved to “oversensitive” people, but to a much wider range of people."
The point I was trying to raise was persons who are legitimately hypersensitive to stimuli -- not even Asperger's (which doesn't exist anymore) but edging toward that. You can document a Fight or Flight response to each one of these shouts -- blood pressure going up, etc. What about that person?
And we bend over to accommodate one person only to harm another, and I don't think that is right. (There are some people who couldn't walk in New York City.) I don't see a balancing of rights here.
It isn't just "fight or flight." Those are adrenaline-fueled hyperarousal states. Hypoarousal can also happen, and results in "feign dead" or "fawn." Those can be a result of childhood trauma in which hypoarousal was the least-bad path for the victim.
Problem is, hypoarousal can cause difficulty concentrating, dissociation, numbness, and lethargy. An employee who has PTSD and exhibits a hypoarousal response may be sluggish and slow in their work throughout the rest of the day, which to an employer, appears to be poor performance.
It's why we don't allow this stuff, even if the Tourette's sufferer didn't mean it.
My bad, I should have included this as well.
Again, there wouldn't be much point in antidiscrimination laws if we let mere distaste for the characteristics of the people being discriminated against to be a bona-fide reason to discriminate against them.
" there wouldn’t be much point in antidiscrimination laws if we let mere distaste for the characteristics of the people being discriminated against to be a bona-fide reason to discriminate against them"
No. But in an attempt to be inclusive, you will be allowing the growth of a truly hostile workplace. (It shouldn't be that way. But it would be.) Your explanation of why that makes sense, i.e. to oppose "discrimination," won't offset the fact that you will have made life worse for many more people than you will have helped.
In theory, you're making the world better. In reality, you're making the world worse. Looks like anti-discrimination orthodoxy gone amok. If this is your idea of helpfulness, the world would be better served if you'd be less helpful.
Why does this reasoning apply differently to discriminating against people with Tourette's than to discriminating against anybody else?
I think "discrimination" is a problem when such judgement is based on attributes that, in and of themselves, do not reasonably support the judgement being made. So, for example, one cannot make a reasonably supported inference about a person based solely upon the person's skin color, or national origin, or religious affiliation (other than an inference of their skin color, national origin or religious affiliation). Similarly, a diagnosis of Tourette's, in and of itself, does not tell us about a person. But unrestrained offensive statements are indicative of themselves, and should be a basis on which one could reasonably discriminate. The idea that a category of attributes so broadly labeled as "disabilities" should be summarily dismissed as inappropriate to use as a basis of discrimination is absurd to me. We should employ reasonable accommodations as we do, but not bar consideration of a disability as a basis for treating somebody differently, just as pretty much all relevant behaviors are used for us to "discriminate," and reasonably so.
It isn't distaste for their characteristics. The issue is that their disability causes them to behave in ways that create a hostile work environment, as interpreted by a reasonable person. The intent of the speaker isn't always the issue. Here is the standard from the EEOC:
"Harassment can include, for example, racial slurs, offensive or derogatory remarks about a person's race or color, or the display of racially-offensive symbols. Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted)."
Dr. Ed could have connected the dots a bit better. Sure it would be wonderful if everyone hearing these utterances understood it to be baseless. However, "it would be wonderful" isn't the legal standard. It's how a reasonable person would feel, and a reasonable person would not find that to be acceptable. Moreover, this collides with the disability claims of other employees or customers. PTSD sufferers may lack the bandwidth for "but he doesn't really mean it."
"Why?" is an odd question here. He's not on an ideological crusade; he wants to keep his job (or to be compensated for losing it.) It's no different in principle for suing for any of the other disabilities you mention, and in every case the question is whether the person can do the job w/ reasonable accommodations.
He did keep a job there, albeit one that paid him $1.50/hour less than he was making. That seems far preferable to straight-up terminating him, which appears to be what other companies did.
Suing your employer isn't a great way to keep your job, generally; it doesn't really endear you to them. It also doesn't help with future employment.
LA Law *fuck!* is a very good *shitty!!!* show that I like *wanker!* to watch *tits*!
Sure didn't take long for someone to come along and make fun of what is a socially-devastating disability.
Imagine the life that person lives, and then ask yourself why you're a heartless asshole.
*bollocks!!*
"Shit! Piss! Donkey Boner! One time me and my cousin touched weee... Hey, what the hell!"
Good, good, virtue duly signaled. We'll put you in charge of telling their Black customers to just "get over it" when they guy shouts "NIGGER!", which the case records as a frequent manifestation of the condition.
Normal people can state that the decision was correct without mocking the disability.
They can also do so without gleefully seeing an opportunity to use their own favorite slurs.
Fuck off.
The one time progressives think that uttering racial slurs is permissible: when it arises from a disability. But if it's "impact not intent" that determines whether speech is "racist," then it shouldn't matter how the slurs are produced, just as long as they come out of someone's mouth.
It gives me goosebumps when these sorts of progressive paradoxes occur.
When I see conservatives taking pleasure in other people’s pain, I wouldn’t say it gives me goosebumps but it does make me wonder what happened to the human race. There’s actually a verse in the Bible that forbids putting stumbling blocks before the blind because I guess some people have to be told not to trip blind people for their own amusement.
Tourette syndrome is a nasty disorder that no one would volunteer for. And having to listen to racial slurs if you’re black is pretty bad too. So those darned liberals have to try to find a way to minimize the suffering of both of them even though it’s a catch 22. Well, I’d rather try to minimize the amount of suffering in the world than mock the efforts of those who try. You, sir, are despicable.
These two sentences are inconsistent.
And you, sir, are an idiot, but the anyone who’s been reading your comments already knows that.
I point out an inconsistency.
You resort to ad hominem insults.
Which one is more idiotic?
It’s only an inconsistency if one accepts your deeply flawed premise.
If it's so obviously deeply flawed, then surely it would be simpler to point out those flaws rather than just assert them indirectly with insults.
If you read both of those statements together, the only way he’s not despicable is if his comment wasn’t mocking the efforts of people who are trying to alleviate suffering. They don’t even have to be successful; it’s their intention that is at issue.
And while I try to avoid calling people hypocrites since it’s a tu quoque, since you keep opening that door I will point out that you’re the biggest inconsistent hypocrite here. You gleefully point out every instance of what you think is liberal hypocrisy while never mentioning conservative hypocrisy. So unless you think conservatives aren’t hypocrites - in which case you are simply delusional - you’re just as inconsistent as everyone else.
Just what is an "inconsistent hypocrite "?
A redundancy.
So some people are more equal than others….
Please explain how shouting “nigger” is worse than shouting “fire”, particularly if, say, one was working at a gasoline station.
Having to listen to someone repeatedly shouting ANYTHING is pretty bad, and I don’t see the distinction here.
Having PTSD is pretty bad too — so it would be legal for some vet to haul off and slug this guy? Hey, it’s his disability…
No, I'll go further here -- I personally know some vets and what they are going through and how little tolerance for their disability society has. An employee who started talking about the people he'd killed would be -- at best -- summarily fired. And I don't see why people with Tourettes aren't held to the same standard.
Because in the case of someone with Tourette’s it’s involuntary. They can’t help it. Do you really not know that?
Apparently you are unfamiliar with PTSD.
I think the ADA is functioning well and as intended here, but you're being pretty reductive about PTSD.
You don't need to defend Dr. Ed's trurds, you know...
PTSD is a separate issue from what we’re talking about and it is ok to only talk about one thing at a time.
"So those darned liberals have to try to find a way to minimize the suffering of both of them even though it’s a catch 22."
Strickly speaking it's the progressives who feel they need to find a way to minimize the suffering of both of them. True liberals would give people the freedom to figure it out on their own.
@Krycheck's post above (and, to be fair, he's attacking Ed, not analyzing the courts' findings)
Bullshit. The court has found that the accommodation CCCI has made does what can be done to “minimize the suffering” generated by the guy’s unfortunate condition. CCCI’s customer do not have to accept offensive language in their places of business, at the cost to this employee of about $1.50/hr.
You gotta have brain weevils to view this as anything other than a best-effort reasonable solution.
concur The guy is struggling in his position along with alienating customers, which is never good for the employer.
He gets moved to a position with a much better chance of his success. Its probably the best solution for an unfortunate circumstance. Yet we have commentators condemning the conservatives based solely on ideology
Purported rights bump into each other regularly. Are prostitutes running a commercial business are are they engaging in intimate personal activity? Are foster parents a family or a small boarding school?
Since civil rights law as the courts have ordained it for us simultaneously prohibits businesses from discriminating and protects individuals’s right to discriminate, indeed prohibits business from discriminating on the basis of individual discrimination, the question of whether an activity is a business or a personal activity arises regularly, giving rise to many borderline cases and paradoxes.
After all, in most marriages people serve food and discuss finances, the exact standard the Supreme Court used in Jaycees to determine whether a state can treat a “private club” as a business enterprise and subject it to state laws prohibiting same-sex membership restrictions.
.
Every vile racial slur gives ConservativeProfessor (and at least one conservative professor in libertarian drag) a tingle up the leg.
That must be why this faux libertarian blog publishes so many of them. These clingers can't get enough right-wing intolerance, Republican ignorance, and Federalist Society backwardness.
If even one of the conservative professors who operate this blog wishes to try to defend the remarkable frequency with which the Volokh Conspiracy publishes vile racial slurs, let's hear it. That would take some courage and character where none has been exhibited, though, so . . .
carry on, clingers.
Says the guy "clinging" onto every perceived slight towards his own poorly chosen orthodoxy.
"These clingers can’t get enough right-wing intolerance, Republican ignorance, and Federalist Society backwardness."
Seems you can't get enough of it. You have to mine for it where it scarcely exists.
Keep on clinging, Rev....
How many times has the Volokh Conspiracy publishes vile racial slurs during the first seven weeks of this year, Brightly?
Do you know? Are you willing to guess?
Or are you just another disingenuous right-wing bigot attracted to a white, male, bigot-hugging blog?
Open wider, Brightly. Your betters will be shoving even more progress down your whining throat. If you aren't nicer, perhaps the culture war's victors will stop being so magnanimous about how they position that progress before pushing.
Here's a hint, dumbass: It's more than one each week.
How to you explain that? Is it involuntary? Can right-wing bigots not help themselves when they huddle together at a conservative website while the world passes them by? Are you losers just railing against modernity and your betters?
One a week? That's persuasive.
The Volokh Conspiracy: Official Legal Blog of Vestigial Right-Wing Bigots.
"Says the guy “clinging” onto every perceived slight towards his own poorly chosen orthodoxy."
Except when he slights his own orthodody.
Arthur Kirkland:
But the really funny part is here, where Kirkland criticizes EV for quoting the word "nigger", and in so doing quotes EV's quote, thereby using the word "nigger" himself.
Wonder if the offense attenuates with the multi-cites?
If you think you're helping Prof. Volokh, I don't think UCLA -- or mainstream academia -- in is the market for what you are peddling.
Embrace the disaffected, disrespected fringe. Acknowledge your multifaceted bigotry, old-timey superstition, and misfit status. It's about all you have left, clingers.
Until replacement, and the unavoidable end of your relevance in America.
Lol you seem to be under the impression that I give a shit what UCLA or mainstream academia think.
Just as modern America doesn't give a shit what you and the other right-wing write-offs think. Enjoy spending the rest of your life complying with the preferences of your betters, who will continue to shape the terms with which you will comply and about which you will whine.
When it comes to whining, you certainly are our betters, Arthur.
At a blog operated by and for disaffected, fringe-inhabiting losers, I guess I am the misfit.
What do progressives have to do with this case and what progressive groups or people said this kind of behavior is ok? If you’re talking about the ADA, it was passed in 1990 with overwhelming support (only 28 voted no in the House and 6 in the senate).
The problem with phrasing everything as a right vs left position is that you stop thinking, stop discussing in good faith, and start to look foolish.
I slightly disagree with the opinion. Excellent customer service is probably not really an essential feature of this job. Otherwise, if they are like most businesses these days, they probably wouldn’t be able to find any qualified employees at all, and if they did, the job would be structured to prevent them from providing it anyway. But at least mediocre customer service, avoiding terrible customer service, probably is.
Coke versus Pepsi?
They're fighting for every inch of display space and I imagine it's probably one of the few places where you will still find good customer service because of the competition.
Elsewhere, there really isn't competition anymore and it shows.
You'll enjoy this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cvs-rage-is-simmering-as-some-consumers-face-long-pharmacy-lines-and-incarcerated-shampoo/ar-BB1in6yN
Rather than going into "excellent customer service", if someone a customer had regular and necessary contact with used profane and racist language, is it likely to result in the loss of the customer? As the answer would appear to be, yes, that should suffice.
People used to argue that having black employees would result in the business losing customers. Courts rightly told businesses that they still couldn't discriminate.
People are not born spouting obscenities.
Substitute "non-offense giving service" then if you want. Still not performing as the employer needs.
Reductio ad absurdum, society is not expected to tolerate someone who involuntarily shouts "nigger" but *is* supposed to tolerate someone who involuntarily shouts "fire"?!?
Depending on the circumstances, the latter is a public safety concern while the former is merely offensive.
What I don't understand is why the public is supposed to tolerate loud offensive noises of any kind -- content neutrality and all of that.
What does it mean to say that we have to "tolerate" someone who involuntarily shouts "fire?" If the shout is truly involuntary, then under ordinary principles of law the shouter cannot be held criminally liable for an involuntary act, any more than a driver who suffers a seizure while on the road and runs someone over can be held liable for vehicular homicide. He probably wouldn't face civil liability either, for much the same reasons. But if a safety inspector has a condition that causes him to shout "fire" during fire safety inspections, even involuntarily, he can be removed from that job.
First, with Tourettes, it isn’t *truly* involuntary but that is another issue.
My point is that there ought to be no distinction between someone who involuntarily shouts “nigger” and someone who involuntarily shouts “fire” — as shouting “fire” is inherently WORSE.
Better example: Someone who shouts “bomb” on an airplane.
And there would be civil liability for the driver who had the seizure (or more often, insulin reaction). It's just like if a tire falls off your vehicle and causes an accident.
There's nothing "inherently worse" about involuntarily shouting "fire," "nigger," or "wop-bop-a-loo-bop-ba-lop-bam-boom." It's all a question of circumstances. Does this shouting get in the way of properly performing your job? If you're a receptionist* or other customer-facing service representative, it probably does. If you work the night shift tending the boiler, it probably doesn't.
* I have a case in which a receptionist wants to work from home as an accommodation.
" I have a case in which a receptionist wants to work from home as an accommodation."
You have got to be kidding...
ADA -- All for Dose with Attorneys, everyone else gets screwed.
I wish I were.
I apologize, I presumed you were the one bringing it.
How the hell can you be "otherwise qualified" when the purpose of a receptionist is to -- as Lani Anderson said on WKRP -- to receive visitors. Oh, and to stop them from wandering through the building, etc...
You can do that from home???
In your hypothetical, what if they then continue on to shout "Tutti fruitti, oh Rudy!" What THEN?
When I say that Dr. Ed is a fucking stupid asshole, it's voluntary. When someone with Tourette's does, it is not.
"When I say that Dr. Ed is a fucking stupid asshole, it’s voluntary. When someone with Tourette’s does, it is not."
Um...
Do you have a relevant doctorate to back up that statement?
You're the one throwing out bullshit about Tourette's and PTSD. You sure don't have a doctorate, so maybe don't demand that from people calling you on your bullshit.
Actually,, I do...
Sudden Dr. Ed doctorate? You're lying.
I don't have a doctorate, but I know enough to spot someone bullshitting, and your posts about Tourette's and PTSD are like TV writer level fallacious.
Whatever....
I mean, that's literally the definition of Tourette Syndrome: uncontrollable verbal and/or physical tics. If they were "voluntary" as our serial fabricator thinks, then the person wouldn't have Tourette Syndrome at all. (There are medications that can reduce the symptoms, but not eliminate them.)
David,
I was not going to comment on this OP.
BUT.. your comment to Mr Ed is so precious, I had to congratulate you.
If a person knows they may involuntarily shout fire, causing a deadly panic, aren't they now responsible? Same for a person who (now) knows they are prone to seizures getting behind a wheel.
They've been nailing drunks for murder for 30 years.
Deleted. Post answered immediately below.
If the driver knew they were prone to seizures there would likely be a criminal and/or civil case against them. It's usually considered recklessness to drive if you're aware it's a possibility.
Fair point. I should have made clear that I was talking about a first-timer.
Courts seem to be inconsistent with how customer preferences apply to anti-discrimination law, and I suspect that the holdings mirror the extent to which the judges sympathize with the particular preferences at issue.
I'm not sure why honoring the preferences of customers who would rather not hear certain language that an employee involuntary spouts out is more essential than honoring the preferences of customers who would rather not be served by people with other immutable characteristics.