The Volokh Conspiracy
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Donald Trump is the Victim of Selective Prosecution
Trump is the victim of political witch hunts by Democrats suffering from Trump derangement syndrome
The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "A selective prosecution claim is not a defense on the merits to the criminal charge itself, but an independent assertion that the prosecutor has brought the charge for reasons forbidden by the Constitution." United States v. Armstrong, 517 U.S. 456 (1996). The defendant must prove that "the *** prosecution policy 'had a discriminatory effect and that it was motivated by a discriminatory purpose.'" Tyler v. Boles, 368 U.S. 448 (1962).
Among the discriminatory purposes, which are barred by the selective prosecution doctrine are discrimination involving the Equal Protection Clause and on the basis of race, religion, sex, gender, or political alignment. I think Donald Trump is absolutely right on the merits in the four criminal cases which have been brought against him and in the New York State civil fraud case. But, I also think that all five of these legal actions against Trump are nothing less than a political witch hunt that is motivated by political ambition in the two cases brought respectively by New York State Attorney General Letitia James and by District Attorney Alvin Bragg. Trump's First Amendment rights are being stripped away by discriminatory legal actions brought against him because of his political views in flagrant violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
The New York civil case in which Trump is at risk of being fined $370 million for fraud and being barred from ever doing business in New York State again is a victimless crime. No bank or lender complained that Trump had defrauded them, and the Democratic State Attorney General's accusations that Trump inflated the value of his assets to get favorable loans is standard practice in the New York real estate market. The banks that loaned Trump the money he borrowed discounted the value of Trump's assets from what he claimed, just as they do with every other real estate mogul in the New York real estate market. Letitia James brought this civil action because New York State Democrats suffer from Trump derangement syndrome, and James wants to win some future New York Democratic primary. In doing so, James is violating Trump's First Amendment rights and his rights under the Equal Protection clause. James should have to show that some other New York businessman has been prosecuted for hundreds of millions of dollars and threatened with a ban on doing business in New York for conduct like Trump's. She cannot do that because the politically charged Trump lawsuit she has brought against Trump is one of a kind.
Alvin Bragg's indictment of Trump for paying hush money to Stormy Daniels and not reporting it as a campaign expenditure is also a case of selective prosecution. John Edwards, the Vice Presidential running mate along with John Kerry in 2004, had used more than $1 million in campaign money to hide his very own illegitimate affair. Edwards case led to the U.S. Justice Department adopting guideline against bringing charges about the use of campaign funds to cover up sexual affairs. If John Edwards gets off, then Donald Trump should too. This is another case of selective prosecution based on Trump's political views to go after him so Alvin Bragg can win a Democratic primary in New York for some higher elective office.
The criminal federal classified document case brought in Florida by Jack Smith is yet another travesty of unequal justice based on party affiliation in violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause. For years, Barack Obama knew that Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, had an insecure personal computer at her home, which she was illegally using to store and exchange highly classified top secret information. Neither Obama nor his Attorney General Loretta Lynch chose to prosecute Clinton for these violations of the criminal law. Most recently, President Joe Biden was excused from prosecution for violations of the law concerning classified documents stored in one's house. Donald Trump, however, does get prosecuted for mishandling classified documents. This is a blatant double standard for Republicans and Democrats on the handling of classified information. Again, Trump is being selectively prosecuted in violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
The January 6th, 2021 indictments of Donald Trump are also blatantly unfair. To begin with, Jack Smith is an unconstitutionally appointed Special Counsel for reasons I point out in my law review article with Gary Lawson: Why Robert Mueller's Appointment Was Unlawful? 95 Notre Dame University Law Review 87 (2019). All Trump did on January 6, 2021 was to give his followers a fiery speech and urge them to "fight like hell." Trump never urged his followers to disrupt the counting of the Electoral votes from each state. Trump had a First Amendment right to give the speech he gave at the Ellipse, and he is again the victim of a selective prosecution in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.
As for the Georgia case, Fani Willis is angling to win a future Democratic primary by going after Donald Trump over a phone call in which Trump exercised his First Amendment rights to ask if more Trump votes could be found in Georgia. This is again selective prosecution of Trump by a Democratic prosecutor in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.
In my 34 years as a law professor, I have repeatedly seen the rules in legal academia bent dramatically to favor liberals over conservatives. I thus identify with what Trump is going through in terms of selective prosecution. Trump's First Amendment and Equal Protection Clause rights are being flagrantly violated, and the U.S. Supreme Court should put an end to this charade now.
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To whatever extent Trump is being selectively prosecuted -- and I think the shoe is actually on the other foot; if he weren't a former president he'd already be in jail -- it's because he himself sent prosecutors engraved invitations inviting prosecution by the blatantness with which he has ignored the laws over most of his business and professional life.
Trump is essentially a crook who hit the big time, without realizing that with success comes scrutiny. Whether or not the prosecution is selective, he really did do most of the stuff he's charged with. And in some cases bragged about it. If you poke the bull, expect it to charge.
Sure, Trump is less guilty of mishandling classified information than Hillary "Felonia von Pantsuit" Clinton. And he's less guilty of using campaign funds to pay off a woman than John Edwards. And he's less guilty of fraud, tax evasion and bad bookkeeping than the Biden family. But Donald John Trump is the one who didn't realize that becoming a prominent Republican means more scrutiny and higher standards being applied to you than to any Democrat!
In the Biden case Hur even has evidence that Biden knowingly gave classified information to his ghostwriter, to create a memoir, for personal enrichment.
Also that said ghostwriter deleted evidence of such sharing, requiring the FBI to use forensic data recovery techniques to uncover it. But no recommendation for a prosecution there either.
Wow! Trump not charged with willful dissemination either. So it's a wash.
Mark Zwonitzer admitted to destroying classified information.
§ 2400.31 Destruction of classified information
But the point is he IS guilty of all those things, I guess. Plus rape.
No, he’s not. And you know damn well he’s not guilty of rape. The Carroll mess was a farce from top to bottom. Anyone with a shred of objectivity can see that Carroll is a lying, attention seeking loon, and that there isn’t a single shred of evidence backing her story.
Well we know Trump supporters will never accept court findings about Trump, the rapist, that they don't like.
Please read the jury charge form in the E Jean Carroll case as published by the NYT. The jury found Trump NOT GUILTY of rape.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/05/09/nyregion/trump-liable-verdict-form-jury.html
So youre saying you couldn't be bothered to read the words in the article.
Oh I read them. Doesn’t mean I fell for them.
“Whether or not the prosecution is selective,”
That’s actually a big deal. Using the African American analogy, it’s like pulling over every black driver who is speeding 5 mph over the limit and giving them a ticket. Yes, technically they’re speeding. They did do the “bad stuff”. In practice however, it’s an abuse of the law. And trying to very slightly modify the situation so it's different in "this case" from every other case (where all the other drivers aren't pulled over)...doesn't help things.
If the law is used for selective prosecution, it’s an abuse of the law and the system. And it’s a problem. A big one.
Except Trump didn’t drive five miles over the limit. He drove 80 through a school zone while waving a sign that said Fuck traffic laws, and then mooned the police officer who pulled him over.
If you want to use that as an analogy, that's fine. But then you need to ask...why are the other drivers who are going at 80 mph or 75 mph through a school zone not being pulled over?
Why are "just" the drivers who are blaring rap lyrics about "f*ck the police" being pulled over for the same actions?
And is that a problem?
Because you’re a shameless chronological liar.
Easy questions have easy answers.
"Chronological"? Did you mean "pathological"?
Oh man
The Chronological Liar
sounds like a murder mystery! A sort of boring one though... about a villian who misleads people about what time it is?See also: chronological illness
Insomnia is taking its toll.
Indeed I did mean pathological, my mistake.
Thanks for the correction.
More like if you add together the speeds of these other drivers you get 80 or 85 therefore it's selective prosecution that they aren't also caught.
I don't think there's any evidence that anyone else is driving as fast as Trump. It's not selective prosecution to prosecute the worst of the bunch.
it’s like pulling over every black driver
The problem with your analogy is that every Republican isn't getting pulled over. Just one. Meaning, it's not because of his political beliefs.
To the extent you can do like Steven suggests and blame it on TDS... well, that seems totally legitimate to me. The most hated criminal is also frequently the one who gets the attention of prosecutors, for lots of (legitimate) reasons.
"I don’t think there’s any evidence that anyone else is driving as fast as Trump"
Did you read the Hur report? Arguably what Biden did was far worse than Trump. Trump supposedly had classified documents in a locked, secured, room.
Biden by contrast, had classified national security documents, over 300 of them. They were scattered between multiple offices and residences, over a period of decades. He willfully took them and then disclosed them to unauthorized parties so he could make a profit (writing his book with a non-cleared ghostwriter). His handling was a serious national security risk. Which he willfully violated. For personal profit.
No it's not worse because Biden returned them, and Trump's haul were not secured he just had a minion perjure themselves saying they were.
Hey, that bathroom was very secure!
You didn't, so that's an absurd challenge. For example:
The Hur report explicitly explains that what Trump did — or, technically, is accused of doing — is far worse.
Not correct, and also not what Trump is charged with, so it's irrelevant in any case. It's understandable why you want to pretend that the charges against Trump are for having taken the documents, so you can cut off the fact pattern before the point where it diverges from Biden or Pence or anyone else.
It's the same reason you want to pretend Trump didn't commit rape and didn't collude with Russia — just yesterday he bragged about encouraging Russia to attack our allies! — and didn't engage in insurrection: because you're utterly unprincipled and a rabid hack.
Did you read the Hur report? Arguably what Biden did was far worse than Trump.
Oh bullshit. Hur himself points out several ways in which Trump's
behavior was far worse than Biden's.
Take your "arguably" and shove it.
No, he didn’t do any such thing. And those people DWB deserved it any way. See how ridiculous you sound? You’re incapable of being objective here.
How exactly? Giving a speech? Having documents from his presidency, in secure locations, pursuant to standard practice and within the scope of the Presidential Records Act? And, not too inconsequential a point but Biden was not president when he took classified material and stored it in his garage among other places. And not just any classified material, top level intelligence material according to Hur's report. How under these facts is President Trump's conduct so inexcusable for you yet Biden, meh.
If you haven't figured out the differences between Trump's behavior and Biden's there's no use explaining it one more time.
You're obviously too stupid, or too mesmerized by Trump, to understand.
We know, it is (D)ifferent.
No, you’re just (D)elusional.
XY, you just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I guess Commenter_XY accurately sums of the difference. Biden is a democrat. But still the substantively meritless nature of these actions is striking. And harmful to our constitutional order. Jack Smith is trying to criminalize not just conduct that on its surface is protected by the fist amendment, but also conduct within the scope of official presidential duties. not because the act was in anyway wrong in and of itself, but because of the intent/mindset of the president when he performed the act. Rather dangerous path for the DOJ.
Not establishing anything. Easier to assume so you can skip straight to the mournful partisan rant.
Not quite sure I understand your point. But if you can't appreciate the serious constitutional issues that inhere in prosecutors trying to criminalize the presidential intent underlying facially legal official presidential duties and Art. III courts taking it upon themselves to determine the motive of the action, than there's no point in discussing the matter further with you.
You assume Trump is innocent so you can write how you sorrowfully condemn what has become of our country (with the clear implication that the problem is the Democrats).
You don't get to skip to that point, even if you really want to. And no, just saying 'facially legal official presidential duties' is not an argument.
It does make you look like a 2020 truther, though.
I'm assuming that the motivations of a president underlying conduct within the scope of his official duties is not an appropriate matter for Jack Smith or any federal court to dispute in a criminal trial.
The President does not have any official business related to State elections and the counting of Electoral votes.
You have a lot to learn if that's your opening argument.
Conduct is not protected by the first amendment. Speech is. And not speech integral to criminal conduct.
The president has no role to play in any of this. He was acting as a candidate, not as president.
He's faithfully executing the laws and the means he chooses to do so are not a subject for Jack Smith to dispute.
Seems like there are lots of studies that say police pull over black drivers selectively, arrest black people selectively, and fill up the prisons with black people selectively.
Seems to have been ok so far!
Everyone is selectively prosecuted. Prosecutors select who to charge ALL the time. There is no such thing as everyone gets prosecuted for all crimes. Why shouldn't Trump be selected if the prosecutor thinks he can get a conviction by a jury (or maybe Trump would want a bench trial)? IF he did the crime, he can be selected to prosecute and let a jury sort it out.
If the prosecutor does not think he can get a conviction then he can select not to prosecute. Seems like what happens every day.
No reason to treat citizen Trump any different.
Yes, there is. The difference is that NO ON EVER, as a presidential candidate, has been treated that way. Also, it’s the middle of an election year and you’re prosecuting the leading candidate of one of our two main parties. Sorry, but they should be more selective here and not try to interfere in a presidential election.
You vote for someone sui generis, you can't complain when things are different.
Want a reason? Try the US constitution. Oh and look up separation of powers if you have the time.
Because prosecutors routinely run for election on a campaign to incarcerate a specific person "for something."
If Trump has "ignored the laws over most of his business and professional life", don't you think it's kind of a big coincidence that all these prosecutions and civil suits started after he was running again for President? Where were they in the 80s? 90s? Anytime before 2016?
You think there were no Trump-related prosecutions and civil cases before 2016?
When? Where? I know in 1972, the Trump company was sued for discrimination and settled. But at that time his father Fred Trump was in charge of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump#Other_lawsuits,_1990%E2%80%932009
This post is sheer dreck. The sine qua non of a slective prosecution claim is that there are other persons similarly situated to the accused, whose criminal activity is known to prosecutors but who have not been charged, pursuant to a prosecutorial policy which "had a discriminatory effect and . . . was motivated by a discriminatory purpose." United States v. Armstrong, 517 U.S. 456, 465 (1996), quoting Wayte v. United States, 470 U.S. 598, 608 (1985).
The best definition of "similarly situated" I am aware of comes from the Eleventh Circuit in United States v. Smith, 231 F.3d 800, 810 (11th Cir. 2000):
(Footnote omitted.)
Donald Trump's criminal conduct is sui generis.
Well, let's ask: Is Trump the only NY real estate guy who exaggerated the value of his properties when seeking a loan, got the loan on the bank's own evaluation of the property value, and then paid the loan off in full? You really want to claim that?
Or is he just the only guy they ever went after for doing that?
'You really want to claim that?'
Seems like you're the one trying to make a claim.
If you/Trump want to claim selective prosecution, it's up to you to prove there are such people, not on anyone to prove there aren't. That's true as a matter of both law (burden of proof is on the defendant) and logic (nobody can prove the non-existence of such a person.)
Also, Trump did not "exaggerate." He flat-out lied. His own appraisers would tell him it was worth $X, and he would put on his financial statement not, say, 105% of X, but 150% of X or more, based on nothing at all. With his apartment, of course, he tripled its value on his financial statement — not by claiming that the appraisal overlooked something, but by claiming it was triple the size that it actually was.
Google Marilyn Mosby. Not New York, but don't pretend others aren't prosecuted for lying on loan applications, sometimes even Democrats.
"Well, let’s ask: Is Trump the only NY real estate guy who exaggerated the value of his properties when seeking a loan, got the loan on the bank’s own evaluation of the property value, and then paid the loan off in full? You really want to claim that?"
I am not the claimant, dummy. The burden is on the party claiming selective prosecution to identify the comparators and to offer evidence of improper, class based animus.
You know, I'm not sure I believe the banks completely ignored Trump's claimed values. Sure, they did their own appraisals, but there is such a thing as an anchoring effect that may have had an influence.
Maybe they did, but then why ask for them? I suppose, if the borrower defaults, having that signed statement might help their case. Defrauding a federally insured lender is not overtime parking.
Well, in the court of public opinion at least, these Democratic Party-sponsored prosecutors have long ago been found guilty as charged. What else explains Trump’s rising popularity? Ironically, these suits have forced him into an uncharacteristically muted media presence, which feeds his image as the Suffering Servant of Democracy.
Democrats can’t win for losing. Deservedly so, in my opinion. I hate lawfare with every fibre of my civic being, and I will not be unhappy when they get their just deserts.
You want to rule a free people? You have to earn it. You can’t take it.
Let's see what the polls say...
6.21.23: 62 percent in new poll say federal charges against Trump politically motivated
OTOH?
1.31.24: Trump Risks Losing More Than Half of Swing-State Voters If Found Guilty
This is kind of a high stakes gamble for the Democrats: Their lawfare against Trump is widely perceived as just a political vendetta, but if they managed to convict him of something serious, it might pay off.
If he's acquitted, though? Probably game over.
Since we're arguing by polls...
https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/01/02/poll-on-third-anniversary-of-jan--6-attack
54% of Americans approve of Trump being removed from ballots altogether for the January 6th insurrection.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/12/20/edc6d/1
"But, I also think that all five of these legal actions against Trump are nothing less than a political witch hunt that is motivated by political ambition in the two cases brought respectively by New York State Attorney General Letitia James and by District Attorney Alvin Bragg."
Gee. What an interesting new concept.
The solution is to not just disbar these schmucks but ban them from politics for life.
What, no killing with snowplows, hangings, machine guns or nuclear weapons? I wonder who hacked Dr. Ed 2's account.
No. Disbarment should be enough.
Is this post real or satire? Because I can't imagine a real law professor writing this for real.
Have you read Calabresi's other posts?
The man has his head so far up Trump's ass Trump can hardly digest his food.
Still, if you want Trump to appoint you to a judgeship I guess that's one way to do it.
The denial of the openly democrat useful idiots remains. No actual counter to the points raised. Just liberal talking points.
LEFTIST! They are way too closed minded to be "liberals."
Jesse,
These points have been refuted on this site hundreds of times. Repeating the refutations obviously has zero effect on the cultists' brains.
I guess you, and Calabresi, and others, can't believe Trump ever did anything wrong.
Do you think we, in the rest of the West, believe your bullshit about Trump? You know that, as much as he’s despised as a person, he’s widely seen to be a victim of a complete abuse of process and the weaponization of your courts.
You know that no serious scholars or jurists in the rest of West seriously believes it was an ‘insurrection’, whether per American constitutional standards (for which there are no clear criteria) or any cognate conception.
You know that America will never recover from the reputational damage you’ve self-inflicted over the last four years, including against Trump, yeah? You’re widely, and correctly, now seen to be a banana republic.
Does your family still think you’re a good person?
'he’s widely seen to be a victim of a complete abuse of process and the weaponization of your courts'
No, he isn't.
'You’re widely, and correctly, now seen to be a banana republic.'
Only in the sense that some people in the US ban books, ban abortion, pass laws against trans people and have built a populist political movement out of hating foreigners.
Professor Calabresi the younger clerked for Justice Scalia in the 1987-88 Term. He is way, way too old for a judicial appointment. Isn't he really angling for, say, Attorney General? Chief Assistant Attorney General for Sycophancy?
Maybe he respects the law and is just saying something that needs to be said.
No, it's fairly realistic. To the limited extent some of the charges are legit, they still would never have been brought if Trump weren't a political foe.
Tell that to the many people in prison for long sentences for mishandling classified information in manners far less worse then Trump. And many business people have been prosecuted for "victimless crimes" of the similar nature of what Trump was accused of. And there is no way to say if Trump is selectively being prosecuted for his attempted coup, because it has not happened before.
All 11 since 2005?
https://www.wptv.com/news/political/donald-trump-not-first-person-to-be-indicted-for-mishandling-classified-documents
That is quite a bit given that it takes effort to criminally mishandle classified information.
He's the first important person to be indicted for it. Maybe the last, if Biden is any indication.
There's a double standard justice system in this country for peons and important people, and Trump was selectively treated to the peon standard, despite being a former President.
So your argument is Trump should get special treatment?
That is always Brett's argument.
No that’s not has argument always. You are being dishonest here.
His argument is to completely ignore the things Trump actually does in favour of pretending he acts just like everyone else who is not prosecuted for the same things.
I'd rather nobody got it, actually, but see Biden getting off on HIS illegally retained and disclosed classified documents?
If we're going to have a double standard, at least be consistent!
Trump would have got off too. That's what so hilarious about these accusations of double standards. They wanted Trump to co-operate, and then he would have gotten off, as it were. Biden was smart enough to understand that. Trump was too stupid to bother.
Brett, you don't regard General Petraeus as an important person?
Except that Trump didn’t mishandle classified information. While President, with plenary declassification authority, he ordered GSA to ship several hundred boxes of personal papers and Presidential records, sight unseen, to his MAL home, where they were secured by the Secret Service. Those boxes contained random documents still marked as Classified, mixed in with contemporaneous documents, from when his desk had been cleared into the boxes, by staff, sometime during his 4 years in office. Bratt and Smith apparently didn’t charge him with mishandling classified documents, but rather having National Defense information, likely because they knew that he could make the argument that the documents were implicitly declassified when he ordered them shipped to MAL.
Neither Clinton nor Biden had plenary declassification authority. Clinton had declassification authority for State Dept documents, but was found to have insecurely stored classified documents from the DoD and Intelligence Community, that appear to have been downloaded at least by the Russians in real time. Probably China and maybe Israel too. Biden had no declassification authority over the classified documents that he insecurely stored in his garage. Both were exonerated for being too stupid to understand what they were doing. FBI Director Comey exonerated Clinton by using the wrong legal standard – he said that they couldn’t prove that she knew that she was doing anything wrong, when the legal standard includes gross negligence. It has been shown that she repeatedly signed statements that she was aware of how classified documents had to be protected, and that she would comply. Moreover multiple people (including one I know who briefed her quarterly) have stated that they got a verbal acknowledgment of her duties before briefing her. Yet, this Yale educated lawyer somehow was not expected to have the understanding of these laws that are presumed for GS-5 clerks with security clearances. Biden, caught with boxes of classified documents, and no excuses, was excused for being too old and senile. And, yet, he now is in charge of all of our classified documents and information.
'where they were secured by the Secret Service'
No.
'that the documents were implicitly declassified'
No.
'Biden, caught with boxes of classified documents,'
No.
You seem to be under the impression that you can refute things by simply denying them. It doesn't work that way.
None of those claims are remotely factual.
The Secret Service does not guard classified information of they protectees. And if they did they would not store them in a bathroom and ballroom stage.
There is zero evidence that Trump declassified anything.
The case is about Trump keeping the documents and lying about them after he was asked to give them back.
Actually that is one of the duties of the Secret Service. It is also why former Presidents are given an allowance to maintain a secure office and for Staff.
No. The Secret Service detail a former president gets is for bodyguarding, not for being security guards at properties he owns. They ensure that someone doesn't walk into Trump's residence with a gun or bomb, not that someone doesn't walk out of one of Trump's buildings with documents.
Locked basement room, actually.
I agree that Trump didn't store them adequately securely. Quite a bit more securely than Biden did, of course, (Boxes in his garage? Really?) but not securely enough.
And that's the end of what he did wrong, in your mind?
Stop being ridiculous.
Yeah, pretty much. He didn't have his minions strip the security headings off classified stuff and send it insecure, he didn't store it on a private server with bargain basement security. He didn't give a crack head with lucrative contracts with geopolitical enemies open access to his documents. Or blab classified information to his biographer. He just failed to roll over and play dead while negotiating with the National Archives over what they were really entitled to.
We still don't know if he actually had anything genuinely sensitive, since the government objected to the appointment of a special master to look at the documents they claimed were a big deal.
He just failed to roll over and play dead while negotiating with the National Archives
You mean he willfully refused to turn over documents he wasn't entitled to have to the National Archives. Not to mention he ignored a subpoena.
Look, Brett, there is no question that the Archives were entitled to the documents. None. So WTF was this "negotiation" you're talking about? Should you have to negotiate with a car thief to get your car back?
What it was about was the Archive asking politely, numerous times, for the stuff they were entitled to. And then, when he wouldn't give it up, getting a subpoena, which Trump ignored.
How many times does this have to be explained to you before you give up on your stupid arguments? Seems like no number will work, because you're so deep into the cult you just reject anything that puts Trump in a bad light.
You are deranged.
'He just failed to roll over and play dead while negotiating with the National Archives over what they were really entitled to.'
There was no negotiation, and he lied, and the documents were not secure.
Molly, you could turn a ballroom or bathroom into a SCIF if you wanted to -- and its probably been done at some point by someone. The one in the basement of the Capitol was probably a janitor's closet. Bathrooms are quite secure if they are only accessible from rooms that are themselves secure.
There are standards for constructing a SCIF; Intelligence Community Standard 705-1. It might help Trump's defense in the Mar-a-Lago case if he could actually demonstrate that any of the five or more rooms was converted to a SCIF, but the charges don't depend on that not being the case. I would guess that Trump cannot prove or even plausibly assert that any room was so converted.
Actually you can't convert a bathroom into a SCIF. I work in a secure facility and the bathrooms are outside of the SCIF.
A moment's thought about how plumbing works and you can realize why.
I think it's up to the person making the claim to provide evidence, no?
If I claim to have, say, a doctorate in quantum physics (I don't), and you don't believe me it's not up to you to check. It's up to me to present the credential.
Is Nige being honest here?
No.
I know it's dshonest to keep reminding you of facts.
Dr. Ed,
You are one of the last people here who should be judging others' honesty. You are a serial fabricator, a pathological liar, and full of shit about 95% of the time.
That is libelous.
Just sayin...
You are using a pseudonym dipshit.
Plus, truth is a defense, is it not?
This is pure guesswork, but it might be accurate. Which is why he's not being charged with taking the documents in the first place.
This is Bruce Hayden proving he's a shameless liar and terrible lawyer. That isn't a thing, and it's more likely to lead to someone being committed to an insane asylum than being acquitted.
But of course it's all irrelevant, because that's not what Trump is charged with. Trump is charged with refusing to return the documents when asked, and then causing a perjured affidavit to be supplied to hide the fact that he was refusing to return them.
Most of what you say is BS. And it the only person who could testify that the documents were declassified (because there is no documentation) is Trump, and he would never take the stand in a criminal trial. So he could have charged Trump with that if he wanted. Also, it is an odd defense of someone who you want to be president, that he willy nilly declassified top secret info.
they were secured by the Secret Service
Hahahaha anyone who would type that phase is a particularly exceptional moron.
Classification/declassification is a red herring. The classified status of a document is not an element of any offense that Trump is charged with.
They never would have been brought if Trump hadn't lied about returning them.
Whining, cartoonishly partisan right-wing assholes are among my favorite culture war casualties. The sole (surprising) redemptive attribute of this Volokh Conspiracy post is that it does not include a vile racial slur.
This post is so far below the quality standards of VC and Reason that I am just shocked that it was allowed to be posted. A characteristic of Reason and especially VC is that they don't post raw partisan bulls shit like this that lacks intellectually value and is full of (if submitted to a journal or academic setting) academic misconduct for deliberately lying.
Yes
You are free to return to Salon, DailyBeast, and Wapo where you get most of your information from.
You can read the source documents in the cases and know that this post is full of massive untruths.
Cite them.
No. You can go google them yourself.
Just a few obvious problems:
This is clearly wrong; to prevail on a claim of selective prosecution, it is up to Trump to produce clear evidence of discriminatory effect and purpose. Nor does declaring that Trump is not guilty demonstrate selective prosecution.
The civil fraud case is not for victimless crimes; the victims may have been unaware of their loss or trying to cover up their own misdeeds toward others or to preserve their reputation. In any case, victimless crimes are still crimes.
John Edwards was also indicted for misuse of campaign donations, although he was not convicted. The federal DOJ may have changed its rules about prosecuting campaign finance violations, but the Trump case is in state court.
Joe Biden responded to discovery of documents in his possession in a completely different manner than Donald Trump; the prosecution does not depend on the presence of classified documents. Donald Trump's own Department of Justice didn't prosecute Hillary Clinton.
Jack Smith was not unconstitutionally appointed. Robert Mueller's similar appointment as Special Counsel was challenged but upheld as constitutional by the DC Court of Appeals; it is only true that the Supreme Court has not ruled on that question.
Trump did a lot more for the insurrection than his January 6th speech, which is already mischaracterized.
Trump tried to pressure Republicans in Georgia to find votes for him after being told repeatedly that his claimed numbers of fraudulent votes were wrong. Even if Trump's claim had any basis (spoiler: it did not), it is not a reason to conclude that there must be uncounted valid votes for Trump; Trump wanted votes to overcome these claimed fraudulent votes (which did not exist) for his opponent. Two wrongs don't make a right, but here there was only Trump's criminal wrong.
"Joe Biden responded to discovery of documents in his possession in a completely different manner than Donald Trump;"
Look, this elides the fact that Biden was reacting to the "discovery" by his own people of his position of classified documents. He'd actually HAD the documents much, much longer than Trump at the point he found it necessary to have them "found". He'd been sharing them with the guy ghost writing his biography, for goodness' sake! Of COURSE he knew he had them all along.
Unlike Biden, Trump didn't have the advantage of knowing in advance the standards had changed. He was acting on the assumption that he would be subject to the same rules every previous President had the advantage of. Not raided by the FBI in the middle of negotiating with the National Archives over what they were really entitled to.
Mind you, it was stupid of him, by then, to have made that assumption. Any reasonable man would by then have figured out he had a target painted on his back, and behaved accordingly.
But no, not Trump. They might have been out to get him, but he sure made it easy for them.
Having documents longer does not make it more serious. Refusing to cooperate, lying and getting others to lie makes it more serious.
It is good that you recognize that Trump is not a reasonable man. Now reflect on why you would want a President who is not a reasonable man.
Negotiating instead of giving somebody everything they demand up front is not "refusing to cooperate". It's establishing how much cooperation is actually required.
Lying and having your lawyers lie for you is not negotiating.
He wasn't negotiating, and you're just using other words for 'being quite incredibly stupid.'
Trump didn’t have the advantage of knowing in advance the standards had changed. He was acting on the assumption that he would be subject to the same rules every previous President had the advantage of.
They didn't change. Here are some rules:
If you come forward and turn over the documents everything is fine.
If you turn them over after a couple of requests everything is fine.
If you refuse to turn them over even in response to a subpoena you are likely to be charged.
Your dogged insistence that Trump was treated unfairly marks you as a cultist fool.
You forgot, "If you then lie and claim you complied with the subpoena," and "If you try to hide the documents when they're searching for them."
Spot on.
Professor Calabresi is lying (or at best, egregiously mistaken) about who bears the burden of proof on a selective prosecution claim. Either way, a whopper like that discredits everything else he says. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
You should similarly be shocked that you are allowed to comment, and for the same reason.
I assume you are not talking to Artie Ray Lee Wayne Jim-Bob Kirkland, who was banished by this "free speech champion" blog for making fun of conservatives too deftly for the proprietor's taste.
Ever read ANYTHING by Ilya, Molly?
Completely agree. I think there is a fair argument that the two New York cases raise some selective prosecution concerns—I'm not sure I buy that argument, but I think you could make it in good faith. But Calabresi's treatment of the Georgia case is (1) cursory; (2) conclusory; and (3) intentionally misleading. It looks like what a law student would put on an exam if they were running out of time. I mean for goodness' sake, half of these arguments could support the conclusion that Al Capone was selectively prosecuted. In my view, that's silly (though if someone were willing to make that argument, I would be intrigued).
Look, the media coverage of the Georgia case is intentionally misleading. That faked up paraphrase that everybody quotes instead of what he actually said, for instance.
What does misleading media coverage have to do with anything?
And since when are you concerned with misleading media coveage? Misleading media coverage is your oxygen. Without it, your brain would have to turn on.
Calabresi's best defense would be that he suffered a stroke and all of his friends are such on-the-spectrum, awkward misfits that no one has checked on him yet.
Al Capone WAS selectively prosecuted...
.
Standards?
Weekly publication of vile racial slurs.
Viewpoint-driven censorship that never touches the incessant stream of multifaceted bigotry (nor the periodic and graphic calls for liberals to be exterminated).
Blackman.
Bernstein.
The proprietor's trans fetish.
Calabresi's Weekly Stroke-Out.
Endorsements (never withdrawn, remarkably) of un-American loser John Eastman and disgraced loser Alex Kozinski.
Today in Supreme Court History (which would receive low grades as a high school project).
A white, male blog that cultivates a target audience of racists, misogynists, gay-bashers, immigrant-haters, transphobes, antisemites, white nationalists, Islamophobes, Christian dominionists, white supremacists, Trump fans, disaffected hermits, on-the-spectrum incels, delusional conspiracy theorists, and did I mention the racists?
Tell us more about these "standards" to which you refer.
Rev. Haw Haw is always good for a chuckle.
I'm always good for a chuckle.
This blog always features plenty of bigotry.
Still wondering why conservatives have lost the culture war?
I'm muting kirkland.
.
UCLA is muting its most prominent racial slur-happy clinger.
Sounds like a fair exchange.
What! Mute Rev. Haw Haw? Red China needs a voice too!
Don't mute him because you don't like what he says, but its perfectly ok to mute him because he never says anything that even comes close to engaging you enough to make you think of a response.
Its my theory that he's actually an NPC bot programmed by EV to provide some levity, but also to discredit the thoughtless smug liberal certainty that they are the voice of decency and thoughtfulness. Impressive effort in bot coding, but its a little too over the top to be believable.
How are you and your mail order bride enjoying life in that off-the-grid hermit shack? Does she share your adoration of Ted Kaczynski?
Bigot. Aren't you supposed to be inclusive of those sorts of relationships now? And how dare you presume its gender.
How many millions of people will be 'Uncle Ted' adherents over the coming decade in the US (as your culture war turns hot)?
The culture war has been settled, clinger. All that is left is driving the conservatives into smaller and more desolate corners of America while better Americans continue to shape our national progress against the wishes and efforts of right-wing write-offs.
Oh, grow up.
Who else fall under this list of 'casualties'?
When do you expect America's cold war to turn hot? How many casualties are you expecting in your community?
I expect very little drama as the culture war approaches its predictable conclusion. Right-wingers are all-talk losers.
Agree with most of the article but there is one mistake.
As for the Georgia case, Fani Willis is angling to win a future Democratic primary by going after Donald Trump over a phone call in which Trump exercised his First Amendment rights to ask if more Trump votes could be found in Georgia.
Trump wasn't asking to find more votes for him. The first half of the call was a listing of illegal votes from a combination of double votes and people who moved prior to the election and voted in the wrong district in violation of Ga law. It was not about finding votes for Trump. Transcript is public.
The Edwards analogy was also slightly wrong: whereas John Edwards used campaign donations to pay off his pregnant mistress, Donald Trump used personal funds to settle the Stormy Daniels case. The argument was that in Trump's case, this was therefore an illegal campaign contribution.
Bullshyte.
It's like a female politician getting a boob job. Personal things are not campaign expenses.
It was a catch 22; If he paid for it privately, he would be charged with not reporting it as a campaign expenditure. If he'd paid for it out of his campaign funds, he would be charged with fraudulently reporting it as a campaign expenditure. They were going after him either way.
It would be fine for him to pay it out of his campaign funds as long as he didn’t fraudulently pay it out of his campaing funds.
If you don’t know the difference it’s because you’ve been convinced by your MAGA handlers that there’s no such thing as fraud.
Way to deliberately not get the point: The fraud would have been saying it was a campaign expense, in that case.
No, he could have paid it out of campaign funds if he reported the expenditure. The challenge would be to come up with some description that wouldn't defeat the purpose of paying hush money to a porn actress, so the straightforward "paying hush money to a porn actress" wouldn't work. But there's probably legal ways to obscure something like that.
No. A couple of his wealthy supporters paid her. The government said that these were effectively payments to benefit his campaign, and therefore constituted illegal campaign contributions.
And the jury disagreed, and now the feds no longer consider that campaign related expenditure.
The jury acquitted him on one count, and deadlocked on the other counts (and the government elected not to retry him). An acquittal does not come with an explanation; we don't know why the jury did what it did. (And an failure to reach a verdict on a charge doesn't say anything at all.)
And the jury rejected that theory.
Going by Trump cult standards, it must have been a biased, Republican jury, no?
2020 truther?
Your response to "The call was about X" is that half of the call was not about X?
This.
I'm constantly amused by the Leftists that continue to parrot that phrase as if it's definitive.
Of course, these are the same morons that jumped on "Bin Laden determined to attack US" as proof that GWB knew ahead of time the details of the 9 11 attacks and chose to let them occur in order to gin up a war.
You might have a point if his complaint was that numerous legitimate votes for Trump were not counted; it would be appropriate to look for those (although the Georgia Republicans he spoke to were certain that the vote counting was correct and that his numbers for dead voters, etc., which he felt justified the search for more votes for him were wrong). But he was looking for votes for himself to make up for imaginary fraudulent votes (that he also didn't have proof weren't cast for him).
The first half of the call was a listing of illegal votes from a combination of double votes and people who moved prior to the election and voted in the wrong district in violation of Ga law. It was not about finding votes for Trump. Transcript is public.
The first half of the call was a torrent of lies, nothing else.
“Donald Trump, however, does get prosecuted for mishandling classified documents.”
Law professors are supposed to value the truth, yet here you are blatantly mischaracterizing the extent of Trump’s criminal misconduct and omitting entirely his efforts to lie about, obstruct, and destroy evidence related to his crimes.
Fuck off Calabresi. This blog deserves better than a contributor spewing lies.
He's a whore. Why complain about a whore laying back and spreading his legs wide? His (pro-Trump) Trump Derangement Syndrome is, I admit, remarkable for a law professor at a legitimate first-rate law school. But that's Northwestern's problem, not ours.
Anyone who takes Calabresi seriously by this point is one of the MAGA, beyond-facts, beyond-reason, crowd.
(I'll also point out the Calabresi that, in a claim for selective prosecution, the burden is on the *defendant* (not the prosecution), since it's an affirmative defense. Trump has to show that there are other filthy-rich people in NY who are committing this fraud, doing it as often (or more often), to such an extent (or to a greater extent)...but are not being prosecuted. If Trump can point to several examples of this, then he absolutely can and should raise it as a defense.
It's sort of pathetic that Calabresi, as part of his own legal education, was never taught the concept of "Burden of Proof." At least at UCLA Law School; it was first-year stuff.
I think you are being kind in thinking he’s selling out and not profoundly dumb.
Because the second seems to align with this more than the first.
.
Maybe not for long. We could be observing the start of a (welcome) trend.
Well except Calabresi is Never Trump, not MAGA.
I myself am not MAGA either, I never thought America stopped being great. And I'm a Trump Laster, he's the last Republican I'd vote for, but until the Democrats become a party again I can't consider voting for a democrat for President.
Yes, the phenomenon of never trumpers nevertheless giving up their critical thinking and dignity for Trump says a lot about how negative partisanship works these days.
Wipe the spittle off your screen, Cavanaugh. And learn to adult.
This is shameful. Just shameful.
Bad on law, bad on facts.
Hauling out the 'victimless crime' canard?!
Is this is the kind of intellectualism the Federalist Society is into these days? Reads more like The Federalist.
You don't have to remind us that you're shamefully bad on both facts and law, S_0.
Thus his alternate screen name: GaslightO.
Feel free to make an argument, for once.
Yeah, I am known for not making arguments.
There isn't much worthy of arguing against - he has the facts on the Trumps documents case wrong, and he doesn't believe criminal fraud should exist without a complaining witness.
It's dumber than Blackman.
Are you truly a law professor, Calabresi? You beclown yourself worse with every post. This is Red State level hogshit
You people are reminiscent of a privileged little twerp yelling at actual leaders: "HOW DARE YOU!?!?!" (point out that the emperor has no clothes).
I come to VC to get away from the crap on Fox and MSNBC. Yet here it is...a subjective, political screed
I was taken by this as well. Calabresi didn’t even pretend to make this post objective. It was, as you note, a political screed, and was written with that tone in mind. He has the right, of course, to post here in any fashion he wants. But the tone was so out of character for a VC post . . . heck; even most of Josh Blackman’s posts have the surface veneer of “This post is trying to/pretending to be objective and scholarly.”
Not sure if Calabresi deserves praise or condemnation for his [w]horrible whorish whoring.
As Ann Coulter said three years ago (link):
None of this will matter to the leftists. All they will do is plug their ears and cover their eyes and chant "nobody is above the law!"
Awesome arguing. Incredible stuff. Glad you came.
What argumentation do you want me to make? I agree with the OP.
You dinged me for not bringing an argument, and here you step up with this empty mess.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
I look forwards to your next engagement with the content of a Somin post.
Except that’s EXACTLY what is being done throughout the thread. A lot of whining, swearing, and gnashing of teeth, but very little addressing of points.
It's what you're doing throughout the thread, that is for sure.
Like, this is your most substantive comment and it sucks.
“I know you are, but what am I” is not an argument. Stop trying so hard to prove my point.
"Nobody is above the law" is a valid argument. Let Trump go through the normal criminal justice system like anyone else who is accused of crimes. He can make his legal arguments in court.
I think its absurd to say its selective.prosecution, the prosecutor had good sound reason not to.charge Biden: We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” Hur wrote.
“Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him — by then a former president well into his eighties — of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness.” https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4456879-special-counsel-describes-biden-as-elderly-man-with-a-poor-memory-in-eye-raising-report/
Trump of course does not present as an elderly confused man, but as aggressive, in charge, and confident, and certainly willfull.
Maybe, the unneeded attack on Biden in this Republican prosecutor's finding, is not to be taken as gospel...
Didn’t know he was a neurologist.
Hard to believe you're a lawyer.
Didn’t think you needed to be a neurologist to know SIsi is President of Egypt, not Mexico, and Joe Biden was VP 2009-2016.
Or the conclusions a jury could draw when Biden obviously can't keep those facts straight. Prosecutors probably are somewhat expert in when they can get a jury to convict and what circumstances might make it harder.
Trump is on tape misidentifying the person who accused him of rape as his second ex-wife.
So he's an elderly. confused old man?
Elderly confused old rapist.
To be fair, his first ex-wife also accused him of that.
Maybe she accused him too.
Appeal to incredulity by Kaz.
I know, who could have predicted?
Well let me ask you then sincerely to answer two hypotheticals:
If Trump said he did not remember discussing of the Kennedy electors scheme with John Eastman and key details, and he thought since Mike Pence had a gavel in his hand when presiding over the Senate then he was acting as a judge and make substantive rulings; is he lying or is he a confused old man?
If Joe Biden can't remember key details of his time in the Senate, and Vice Presidency, and he can't remember when and why he obtained classified documents or how he used them, or who he shared them with; is he lying or is he a confused old man?
Both are hypotheticals so no need to quibble about facts, just answer which you are going to believe is he lying or confused?
Trump was told repeatedly that Pence couldn't do whet he wanted. So yes, he's lying. As to the Eastman business, who knows, but given that Trump lies about 90% of the time, I'd bet that was lie also.
Biden is forgetful sometimes, and makes gaffes, which he's always done. But remember, he was being asked about events years ago, as even Hur admitted at the start of the interview, and he was more than a bit preoccupied with the events of Oct. 7. (The interview took place on Oct. 8 and 9).
So he's probably not lying, but despite the rather obvious and silly false dilemma you try to sneak by, he's not a confused old man either.
nevertheless, Harris could only describe Hur’s merciful characterization as “politically motivated.
Certainly Citizen Biden sharing SCI information with an unclear writer was a grave offense
Certainly!
Hur had no business talking about Biden's mental state, whether what he said was "merciful" or not.
In fact, he has no qualifications for even evaluating it.
It was a cheap shot, and he ought to be disciplined.
He didn't evaluate Biden's mental state.
He evaluated how a jury might perceive Biden's mental state and how it might affect his chances of getting a conviction.
Isn't that his job?
Probably cause is his job.
He seems to have taken his job as being a Trump shill without quite doing a false prosecution.
Sure why not accuse a person chosen by the Garland's DOJ as being a Republican operative. It fits your partisan story of denial.
This isn't some knee-jerk 'it's bad for Biden so it's partisan.'
Garland picked the principal associate deputy attorney general in the Trump Justice Department because he wanted it to be undeniable that Biden was in the clear.
And, as is often the case, Dems assume a level of good faith in partisan Trump people that ends up being wrong.
At first I thought it was just the weird speculation about what a jury would do because of Biden's mental state. That was pretty bad. But if you read the report, it's...a fucking railroad job.
Here is the load-bearing quote from Biden talking to his ghostwriter in 2017:
"So this was—I, early on, in ’09—I just found all the classified stuff downstairs—I wrote the President a handwritten 40-page memorandum arguing against deploying additional troops to Iraq—I mean, to Afghanistan—on the grounds that it wouldn’t matter, that the day we left would be like the day before we arrived."
Now, that looks like Biden found his copy of the memo, which is a legit source to draw from. But Hur cites that quote 23 times. Oh wait, he just cites "I just found all the classified stuff downstairs." Hur finds decides it's gotta be that Biden was offering the docs at the bottom of the box in the garage that it looks like hasn't been touched.
It's Brett-level speculatively spun bullshit.
And the tone is similarly telepathically anti-Biden: "Mr. Biden has long viewed himself as a historic figure...He used these materials to write memoirs published in 2007 and 2017, to document his legacy, and to cite as evidence that he was a man of presidential timber" Is just telling stories.
So read a summary of the report and don't just come in assuming shit.
It's not his fucking job to comment on Biden's mental state in his report, assuming he even has any qualifications or basis for judging it
And if he decided not to prosecute on the basis and kept his goddamn mouth shut about it, and just said he didn't think anything could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Instead he took a very cheap shot. He essentially said Biden is guilty as hell, but because he's senile we're not going to prosecute.
That's BS. If he doesn't want to prosecute just say so, without the slander. The guy is a disgrace. His conduct is just dishonest and he really should be disciplined.
I don't agree it was irregular for Hur to write this in his report. The Special Counsel regulation requires that
If he believed conviction unlikely because a jury would find Biden sympathetic and give him the benefit of the doubt that his actions were non-wilful then he was required to include that in his confidential report.
In my view the problem here is that the confidential report didn't remain confidential. In the post-Comey and Mueller world it seems every high-profile case becomes an exception to the DOJ policy of not publicizing investigations that don't result in charges.
Here Garland had committed himself into a corner, promising last year to release the report without redactions, and it would have been even more damaging to have gone back on that promise, but it is inevitable that these disclosures publicize accusations that the target won't have an opportunity to challenge at trial.
It was not a cheap shot, bernard. It was his excuse for not indicting Biden. There's no free lunch.
Well, it was one of many reasons he gave. First in the list was
It was not the only reason (or excuse) for not prosecuting Biden. Read the executive summary for the other reasons.
Marked classified documents about Afghanistan: they could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Biden was aware of them for reasons other than his memory, among other issues with that potential prosecution.
Notebooks containing classified information: Biden apparently believed he did not have to turn in his notebooks to the National Archive, and cited Ronald Reagan doing the same thing. "Most jurors would likely find evidence of this precedent and Mr. Biden's claimed reliance on it, which we expect would be admitted at trial, to be compelling evidence that Mr. Biden did not act willfully." The decision does not seem to depend on Hur's opinion of Biden's memory.
Principles of Federal Prosecution: Hur details the differences between Trump's case and Biden's ("the allegations set forth in the indictment of Mr. Trump, if proven, would present serious aggravating facts"), and does not refer to the mental acuity of either man.
Other classified materials: The evidence "suggests that Mr.
Biden did not willfully retain these documents and that they could plausibly have been brought to these locations by mistake. We also investigated whether persons other than Mr. Biden knowingly mishandled these classified documents, and our investigation showed that they did not."
Mr. Biden's ghostwriter and destruction of evidence: The ghostwriter's cooperation led them to decline prosecution, as they could not prove that he intended to impede an investigation.
It seems from the report that there were adequate reasons to decline prosecution without bringing up Biden's memory, so it was a gratuitous point to make.
(Has Calabresi denounced Hur's appointment as unconstitutional? The orders from Merrick Garland seem under the same authority.)
A part of it, but there was more distinguishing Biden from Trump:
Unlike the evidence involving Mr. Biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment of Mr. Trump, if proven, would present serious aggravating facts.
Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview. and in other ways cooperated with the investigation.
Don't let Brett see this. His head will explode.
From page 6 of the Hur report:
"In addition to this shortage of evidence, there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."
He really didn't need to write anything beyond that.
'We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” Hur wrote.'
Which is a weird thing to write in a report - not a factual finding at all, and yet treated as one by deliberately lazy readers.
'Trump of course does not present as an elderly confused man, but as aggressive, in charge, and confident, and certainly willfull.'
It's hard to tell when he's being confused, when he's lying, or when he's covering up sheer ignorance.
So in your view Trump should not be prosecuted because the prosecutor can't prove mens rea beyond a reasonable doubt?
Who says the prosecuter can't prove mens rea? 'Hard to tell' for a layperson in regard to his random ramblings versus someone building a case against him? You lot think things are 'double standards' because you don't know what standards are.
"‘Hard to tell’ for a layperson in regard to his random ramblings"
I thought that's why we have juries, so we can use the random layperson's standard for determining guilt and innocence.
Laypeople in a jury don't have to prove mens rea, or anything else, they just have to hear the prosecuter's evidence about it. Juries don't build cases as to whether someone is lying or deluded in terms of the crimes he's committing.
Are they just supposed to take the prosecutors word for it or make their own judgment?
You are the one who said: "It’s hard to tell when he’s being confused, when he’s lying, or when he’s covering up sheer ignorance."
I really can't read that any other way than saying a jury not only could, but should find reasonable doubt at least as to intent.
'I really can’t read that any other way than saying a jury not only could, but should find reasonable doubt at least as to intent.'
How can anyone say that? We haven't heard all the evidence yet.
Yes, there's always an excuse to not prosecute, if you'd be prosecuting a Democrat.
Usually the excuse being that they didn't break any laws.
That's a fucking joke, Brett. Get a hold of yourself.
Hur was a Rehnquist clerk, worked in DOJ under Bush, was an aide to Rod Rosenstein during the Trump Admininstration, and was appointed by Trump to be US Attorney for the District of Maryland.
He's a Republican who worked for Trump. But your conspiracy-addled brain concludes he was just looking for an excuse to let Biden off.
bernard, your the one who is spouting a conspiracy theory. It was not Rump who appointed Hur. Would you really have preferred that he charge Biden.
You say he should keep his mouth shut.
What is your idea of transparency in explaining why he excused unauthorized disclosure of classified information for personal gain?
The only choices are not charge biden and write MAGA bullshit or charge Biden?
You're Trumping it up hard today.
'It was not Rump who appointed Hur.'
Does anybody know what actual conspiracy theories are any more? Is that gone completely out the window? A Republican was appointed to investigate a Democratic president. I wonder why? Can the murkiness of the motivations ever be pierced and comprehended by mere mortal man? We may never know!
Don,
See Magister's comment above, nine hours before this one.
It is (D)ifferent, Brett.
First, Hur is not a mental health expert. There is no reason to take him seriously.
Second, his comments violate DOJ policy.
Third, some, maybe all, of the Biden interview took place on Oct 8 of last year. Do you think Biden might have had some things distracting him so he could give full attention to the assholes questioning him?
He did not make a diagnosis. He reported an observation.
If he reported a violation of the EO regarding national security information; an explanation of "no charge" was in order.
He did not make a diagnosis. He reported an observation.
Holy shit dude listen to yourself.
No; he did not report an observation. He made a prediction about what argument Biden's defense lawyers would make if Biden were prosecuted. It's hard to see how that's within the scope of his responsibility.
He needed some fig leaf to excuse recommending no charges. That was the excuse in this case, much like "no reasonable prosecutor" was in declining to recommend prosecuting Hillary Clinton over clear and well-documented violations of laws.
Yes, he needed that fig leaf because Biden hadn't broken any laws. Same with Clinton.
So the President should be an elderly confused old man instead of an aggressive, in charge and confident one?
If the latter is a stupid asshole who surrounds himself with other stupid assholes, (and is also old and confused himself) then yes, the confused elderly man should be president instead.
You might have a point if Mr Biden dumps Kamela
I don't believe there's a mechanism short of impeachment for dumping a VP during their term.
As running mate? Sure, he could do that. Maybe she's created a bad enough impression that he could replace her with some other darker skinned woman, perhaps one who checks even more boxes.
Look for Cankles to start working on her tan.
Convince her to resign.
Don't you like white women, Brett?
I'm not the one who ruled out picking a white woman, or a guy of any color, for VP. That was Biden.
My only complaint with Biden restricting his VP search to black women, (Besides it being a bit racist and sexist, of course.) is that when you reduce the candidate pool by a factor of 14 (Making some known false assumptions about the statistics!) or better you're going to be very lucky indeed if you don't end up ruling out most of the quality candidates.
And if he's going to dump Harris, he's probably going to have to add yet another intersection to make up for it, the way Democratic politics work. And reduce the candidate pool even further.
Picking minorities just because they're minorities is a dangerous drug; You keep having to up the dose to get the same "first ever" hit...
you’re going to be very lucky indeed if you don’t end up ruling out most of the quality candidates.
Maybe 13/14ths, but you're only looking for one.
Then, of course, that's not quite he said. He said there were four Black women among those he was considering. I'm sure your misrepresentation was unintentional.
Is Justice Thomas a pretty good example of that, in your opinion?
It should probably be the one who didn't try to illegally overturn an election and remain in power despite losing.
Trump was confident, but he was in no way aggressive nor in charge. He was easily swayed by his advisors and made little to no effort to push legislation in Congress.
I've been around aggressive, in charge, and confident people who were also destructive, incompetent, dishonest, egomaniacs.
Spare me.
Get off Trump's jock, good lord.
The claim that Trump is being prosecuted for being a Republican is hogwash, but for sake of argument let’s suppose it’s true.
Republicans have spent the last 30 years blowing up every institutional norm that used to allow Washington to function. So why does it surprise them that Democrats are starting to do the same? If the most recent institutional norm to go is that we don’t prosecute ex presidents for what arguably are political crimes, well, we didn’t used to sink badly needed border legislation just to keep the president from an achievement either.
I’m not saying two wrongs make a right. What I’m saying is that chickens do come home to roost.
What an awesome argument: You ignore all the institutional norms that Dems have blown up, declare that you don't like what Republicans have done, and then use that to justify singling out a Republican for targeted and discriminatory prosecution. That's tu quoque to a degree that even Gaslight0 should appreciate.
What institutional norms have Democrats blown up?
And no, the chickens come home to roost is not tu quoque. They are separate arguments.
I dunno; it kind of does sound like tu quoque to me.
The difference is that tu quoque is an attempt to justify it whereas I was merely acknowledging that it’s a natural consequence. It’s an entirely predictable natural consequence that if you hit your sibling chances are good he’ll hit you back. That doesn’t mean he should hit you back. And if he does hit you back you’re not really in a great position to complain about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
You're welcome.
If you read your own link you didn’t understand it.
And it is noted that you haven’t answered my question about which institutional norms you claim the Democrats have blown up. Yet another example of you being unable to back up your usual narrative that the Democrats do it too (“it” being whatever bad behavior the Republicans are being called out for in any given thread).
You mean the Republicans killed a bill that would have let in 5000 illegal aliens a day.
They clearly prefer to let them all in.
No, we don’t want ANY of them in. You’re the most dishonest hack in all of these comments, and that’s saying something.
Not accepting half a loaf is stupid.
Half a loaf? What planet do you live on? The number in that bill was 5,000 per day. ILLEGAL aliens. No one has EVER floated a number that high.
That said, when American problems of homelessness, drug use, joblessness, etc., are solved, THEN we can allow more in. Come in legally, or stay over there. You libs keep moving the goalposts and telling us we’re the ones in the way. I’m sick of it.
You see content to make things up and get angry when corrected. It’s pretty tedious.
'That said, when American problems of'
Why? They're not causing any of those problems.
If you wanted none of them in, you'd start by preventing most of them. If you instead decline to prevent any of them, you must want them all.
You mean asylum seekers, who are not illegal immigrants.
They’re not seeking asylum. Quit lying.
RE: "Most recently, President Joe Biden was excused from prosecution for violations of the law concerning classified documents stored in one's house. Donald Trump, however, does get prosecuted for mishandling classified documents."
That might be because Biden cooperated with the government when his violations of the law concerning classified documents came to light. Trump defied the government and doubled down.
He didn't say the magic words: "I'm sorry. What can I do to make it right?"
"That might be because Biden cooperated with the government when his violations of the law concerning classified documents came to light."
Where, by "come to light", you mean when he decided it was politically least damaging to reveal them? Since, you know, he'd been violating the law for many years?
Isn't it amazing, even with the most negative spin on it, the claims that Biden's lost it sit side by side with accusations of him being a million times smarter than Trump.
It is not usually the case that cooperating with the government means you don't get prosecuted for pre-existing crimes. There is such a thing as a "plea bargain," which does involve lessening of punishment in exchange for cooperation. When such a bargain is offered, it doesn't come to "You cooperated with us, so all's good now."
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/media/michael-mann-national-review-climate-defamation/index.html
Not to mention that defamation laws are selectively being used as a weapon to suppress conservative beliefs.
The level of legal ignorance that would be required to make such a statement is such that ... I suspect it might be in a future Calabresi post!
(To try and make a positive contribution- no, defamation "laws" are not being used selectively as a weapon. Defamation is a private right of action*, brought by private parties. Moreover, the action was not about the "truth" of AGW, but about the specific defamatory statements. If, for example, someone from Exxon published a scientific article related to AGW that was correct, and I stated that they had faked all of their evidence and compared them to a child molester, than a cause of action might lie against me by that researcher.)
*Absent a few specific instances of criminal libel that remain, and are not germane to this conversation.
That was obviously opinion. Private parties bring the cases, but the "judges" find a way to dismiss them when brought by conservative parties. Why is that?
ZBIDIM, perhaps you are judgment proof, and thus not in peril of liability when you comment on the internet. Otherwise, inability to distinguish factual statements from opinions could put you in genuine peril. Albeit, not every much peril, given that Section 230 degraded the public sense that defamation is wrong.
SL,
ZBiDIM stated his opinion. That he is entitled to do.
Yes, his opinion about "ugly and fat black women," known to the reality-based world as innocent public servants trying to do their jobs.
He expressed that opinion because he's a disaffected right-wing bigot at a white, male, conservative blog, just like you. I am not sure whether he is a superstitious rube, though.
The judges in this particular case dismissed the conservative entities CEI and National Review. I wonder why, if the goal was to get conservatives?
“Edwards case led to the U.S. Justice Department adopting guideline against brining charges about the use of campaign funds to cover up sexual affairs.”
Have we given up on proofreading? Or is “brining charges“ a new legal procedure?
“If John Edwards gets off, then Donald Trump should too.”
Perhaps not the wisest choice of words under the circumstances
What about if Joe Biden gets off inside a little boy's tush?
Oh, it's THAT GUY. I do love it when people announce themselves, It saves time muting them.
On the other hand, it is useful to keep him visible because he does kind of distill the extreme right to its essence: racist assholes obsessed with children’s sexuality.
I don't buy your argument. I muted him.
In the event Calabresi is angling for a seat on the federal bench, I hope someone is taking down this lying crap to critique his judicial fitness at confirmation hearings.
Also? Publishing lying crap from folks with authoritative-looking credentials does not advance 1A expressive freedom. It degrades it, and exposes it to government attack.
Because of the 1A, the government should not punish Calabresi. Because of the 1A the VC should not publish Calabresi.
Which lie is Calabresi making?
He says that Trump's behavior with Presidential docs is the same as Biden's.
That's a lie.
No, it is your opinion.
But with respect to the document charges, Trump is in a hole that he dug himself, despite being given several changes to avoid getting stuck there.
"No, it is your opinion."
Nobody expects you to be able to discern the difference between an opinion and a lie, Don.
In this case, the indictment of Donald Trump has ample evidence that Trump's behavior was deliberately criminal in a multitude of different ways that Biden's case lacks entirely.
When did you decide to forfeit your integrity?
When did you decide to be an asshole? Wait - don’t answer that.
'No, it is your opinion'
It is literally fact.
Biden didn’t dig a hole. Trump did.
That is not a matter of opinion.
S_0 Can't you read?
I said Trump dug his own hole. That is MY opinion. You're welcome to agree with me.
Really, try to read more carefully when you get up in a huff.
You wrote that Trump lied. It is your opinion. Not everyone shares your opinion which you's see if you read previous posts.
Apparently you cannot read; Sarcastr0 asserted that Calabresi lied, not that Trump lied.
Kleppe:
Sarcastr0:
and then to explain:
Robert Hur confirms:
Don never reads my comments correctly.
Too harsh. Your comments need adjustment to fit the context Nico prefers to address.
This is a lie:
Trump's First Amendment rights are being stripped away by discriminatory legal actions brought against him because of his political views in flagrant violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
Regardless of opinions about the motivations of Trump's opponents and adversaries, he has not had any 1A rights stripped from him.
“In my 34 years as a law professor, I have repeatedly seen the rules in legal academia bent dramatically to favor liberals over conservatives. I thus identify with what Trump is going through in terms of selective prosecution.“
This is such an amazing kicker. One of the most influential legal academics in the country, who literally co-founded a prominent and influential organization to promote his views is like: I identify with the man undergoing criminal prosecution. For I too am a victim.
Fucking hell.
They are victims, in a sense. Better Americans have been kicking the everlasting, bigoted shit out of these right-wing misfits in the culture war for so long as any of these fringe-inhabiting assholes has been alive.
Being on the wrong side of history, the losing side of a culture war, and the weaker side at the modern marketplace of ideas is probably enough to make anyone cranky and disaffected.
And it is going to get worse for them. Calabresi seems to be losing his marbles. Eastman may be headed to disbarment and perhaps prison. UCLA had enough -- and likely will be emulated.
It's getting harder and harder out there for a clinger.
I sent the following email to Professor Calabresi. I hope he responds.
My first question for you is, apart from the law, do you think Trump attempted to steal the election? And my second question is (assuming you answered “yes” to the first question), was the attempted steal a High Crime that should have resulted in impeachment, conviction and disqualification by Congress?
Trump only argued for the ballots to be properly counted. He did not steal anything.
Trump spearheaded the following: the fake elector scheme, lying about the election, pressuring local officials to change the results of the election, pressured Pence to illegally throw out valid EC votes.
In fact, counting ballots properly was not his goal, because properly counted ballots showed he lost.
That’s not really an accurate way of phrasing it. Trump very much appears to have believed at the time, and continues to this day, to believe that the election was stolen by the Dems in 6 metro areas in swing states across the country, that all shut down counting at about the same time, with Trump safely ahead in those states, the Republican election judges were evicted, counting resumed, and hundreds of thousands of votes magically appeared for Biden out of each of these cities. By now probably half or more of the voting public believes it too.
He's clearly lying about everything and so are you.
He’s not lying. You are.
You have no business complaining about the lack of substance in this thread, and how people should grow up.
I’m only reacting to the silliness in this thread.
By supporting the liars.
If he believes it, he is delusional. And while that may get him off on the criminal charge, it shouldn’t for a High Crime (and yes, your claims about counting shutting down and Republicans evicted are crap).
These delusional, lying, bigoted, un-American assholes are your fans, target audience, and defenders, Volokh Conspirators -- and the reason your colleagues on legitimate law school faculties regret that their school hired a token wingnut or two.
I still love the idea of Trump's supporters arguing for an insanity defense in this prosecution.
If you repeat a lie so many times that people believe it, it is still a lie. Belief does not make something true.
“Most recently, President Joe Biden was excused from prosecution for violations of the law concerning classified documents stored in one's house. Donald Trump, however, does get prosecuted for mishandling classified documents. This is a blatant double standard for Republicans and Democrats on the handling of classified information.”
One doesn’t expect this kind of stuff from a law professor.
"One doesn’t expect this kind of stuff from a law professor."
C'mon. Such BS claims are frequent from many academics.
Call me cynical, but I am never surprised by absurd arguments and claims
See anything by Laurence Henry Tribe.
No, actually. This post includes deceit about the law (victimless crime) and facts (documents were handled the same) that is uncommon from law profs.
Hand waving ‘liberal profs lie all the time’ is not really a rejoinder, it’s partisan affiliation masquerading as fact.
Wow, you are really hysterical this evening. What the hell did I say that was partisan? You did write in response to my coment.
You lied (you seem to like that word) by writing that I claimed "liberal profs lie all the time," I said no such thing.
I've worked among academics for decades. I've also heard a lot of nonsense from academics.
You ask me to be blind to your ideological affiliation? When you say "Such BS claims are frequent from many academics" I would be foolish not to attribute such a reflexive attack on academia as part and parcel of your usual anti-liberal reflexes.
Biden was excused because he was an elderly man with memory issues. Says so right in the special prosecutor's report.
Which would be fine, if he resigned the highest office in the land and retired to his basement in Delaware. But he goes on in the White House.
So that is a glaring inconsistency. The mental acuity bar for the office of president should be a lot higher than for being prosecuted. Yes, one can come up with a lawyerly distinction between the two, but it does not pass the smell test.
Maybe Trump should mix up the presidents of Egypt and Mexico, and then claim mental feebleness as a defense.
No. He was excused because no evidence could be found of wilfull retention or obstruction. The exact same report explains why the man you are going to vote for was criminally indicted.
‘The mental acuity bar for the office of president should be a lot higher than for being prosecuted.’
Go back to Mueller Report and count how many times Trump said ‘I can’t recall.’ If someone under multiple indictments and who demonstrates repeated failures of mental acuity can be elected president, electing one with merely some mental acuity issues can hardly be criticised.
'and then claim mental feebleness as a defense.'
Ironically if he'd said 'Ooops I completely forgot about all these boxes of government documents I have lying about the place right here in front of me and around me and I'm showing them to people I want to impress right now' he'd have been fine.
Of course, the burden of proof in a claim of selective prosecution is on the defendant making the claim. The prosecution doesn't have to prove that some other similarly situated person committed the exact same crime and was prosecuted for it.
Why should that even exonerate Trump if no other such case could be found? Some case has to be the extreme example. On the facts alleged, Trump's case is not borderline; it is egregious. It fully justifies prosecution. If that makes it the example which expands the set of prosecutable cases to include cases like Trump's, so much the better.
Um, that's what I said.
Boy, there sure is a lot of hot air in this thread! To counter the claim, just cite all the prosecutions of Biden and other Democratic Party candidates that demonstrate the law being applied equally.
If you can't, explain why this doesn't indicate an unfair situation.
Ok. “[T]he practice of retaining classified material in unsecured locations poses serious risks to national security” however “Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview with him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory” so he will NOT be prosecuted.
Is that the example you were seeking?? I am confident it will be repeated.
It gets more bizarre ever time it's quoted. He hasn't actually broken any laws, but if he had, maybe this would be his defence? It doesn't even claim it would be an effective defence, just, maybe, a defence.
That is not what the Hur report says. It says that he did unlawfully retain highly classified materials when he was a private citizen, but that there are grounds for reasonable doubt about his state of willfullness.
Near the bottom of page 4, it says:
"Several defenses are likely to create reasonable doubt as to such charges. For example, Mr. Biden could have found the classified Afghanistan documents at his Virginia home in 2017 and then forgotten about them soon after. This could convince some reasonable jurors that he did not retain them willfully."
Shortly thereafter, on page 5, it says:
"And the place where the Afghanistan documents were
eventually found in Mr. Biden's Delaware garage-in a badly damaged box surrounded by household detritus-suggests the documents might have been forgotten.
In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. And his cooperation with our investigation, including by reporting to the government that the Afghanistan documents were in his Delaware garage, will likely
convince some jurors that he made an innocent mistake, rather than acting willfully-that is, with intent to break the law-as the statute requires. "
Again, there is no doubt that he broke the law by retaining classified documents. There is a possibility of doubt about his degree of willfulness, and therefore a likelihood of acquittal.
Not remembering specific documents over decades of politics and paperwork isn't particularly remarkable. Hur couldn't prove they'd been deliberately retained. This was just a weird back-handed way of acknowledging that.
The burden is on you to demonstrate that Trump's situation and whatever comparison you wish to make are in fact identical and yet only Trump is being prosecuted.
Best of luck. Try not to lie while making your attempt.
You think that if a Republican breaks the law a Democrat should be prosecuted for breaking the same law, even though they haven't broken it?
Step 1, assume everyone is equally guilty across the partisan divide. Step 2, high-handedly insist other people agree with you.
How’d that plan go?
Because no Democrat spearheaded an attempted coup, nor did they lie about and refused to return classified documents.
No takers, then. Interesting. Who's prosecuting whom and for what doesn't seem like a partisan question to me. But clearly I'm missing something. This could be a simple factual discussion, if people want it to be.
It's on you to provide evidence that there are crimes by Democrats that are not being prosecuted. Democratic presidents who attempted a coup to stay in power? Democrats campaigning for President who improperly covered up an affair (OK, John Edwards did that but he was prosecuted; and Bill Clinton got impeached over it). Democrats who refused to return documents lawfully requested of them, to the point of lying about ones they still had?
No takers because you're a question begger.
It's not like anybody anywhere has noticed the double-standard. Moreover, it's not like anybody anywhere is openly poking fun at the United States, its President, and those who continue to support him despite his obvious decline in mental state.
It is true that both Mexico and Egypt have pyramids. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68257586
Prior to the 2020 presidential election, President Trump said it might be "necessary" to postpone the election. At that time, Mr. Calabresi wrote an oped in the NYT calling for the president to be impeached and removed from office merely for having said such an awful thing. Is there such a thing as selective impeachment? Kind it sort of sounds like it. How can you analyze "Trump Derangement Syndrome" when you've got it? Mr. Calabresi should shut up. As the Federalist Society's cofounder, he's making that outfit look awfully bad.
I wonder if the FedSoc board saw early signs that Prof. Calabresi was losing the use of his filter and that's why they have been trying to gently distance themselves from him.
Steven Calabresi is Federalist Society royalty, one of the founders and leaders of movement conservatism's legal operation (Federalist-Heritage-AEI-Republican-Scaife-Koch-etc.).
I therefore hope everyone involved in hiring or retaining faculty at legitimate American law schools reads this post and considers whether any more movement conservatives should be hired by strong, legitimate American law schools.
I submit that conservatives' stale, ugly, bigoted, superstitious, obsolete, and increasingly disaffected legal thinking belongs at Regent, Liberty, Brigham Young, Ave Maria, and perhaps a few other lesser institutions -- and belongs solely at those conservative, nonsense-flattering, bigoted, low-quality schools.
You can't reason with superstition, bigotry, or belligerent ignorance. It is pointless, perhaps even counterproductive or even immoral, to try. This point is applicable to law school faculties.
Carry on, clingers. At schools hospitable to right-wing intolerance, old-timey superstition, and disaffected, stale thinking.
Left-wing
Right-wing
Both of a flightless bird
Still haven't seen anything to disprove my theory that Calabresi is asking ChatGPT (or the equivalent) to generate pro-Trump posts in the style of a MAGA sycophant. None of them are well written or sound anything like what a law professor — even a bad one like Blackman — would say. (That is, even if the positions were sound, they're not argued in a lawyerly way.)
So your "opinion" is proof?
My opinion is my opinion. What I said is that I haven't seen anything to disprove it.
It's easy to disprove. Try asking ChatGPT to write something. It's grammatical with appropriate punctuation and capitalization. Not only that, it's logical even if not particularly creative.
If you ask it to "write in the style of a stroked-out reactionary law professor with dementia" it won't be able to.
If Calabresi keeps it up, ChatGPT will learn that style shortly.
I actually tested that, and the output didn't look anything like what the Prof was producing. Actually, reminded me of Dr. Fever...
There are multiple prosecutions of Trump…the Bragg prosecution is a witch-hunt but the others aren’t. Btw, General Kelly warned Trump that he would get indicted if he kept behaving the way he did…I very seriously doubt any other president was warned about getting indicted and then just waived off the person. So maybe Clinton or Bush were warned some overseas action was illegal but they would have heeded warnings and attempted to make it legal.
You must have done really poorly on your defamation test if you think that's "opinion".
That's known as an ad hominem attack, and your comment would be much more persuasive if you provided actual examples of where you think Calebresi is wrong on the law.
That is not in fact known as an ad hominem attack, at least not among people who know what those words mean, and I already pointed out one thing he got wrong, above.
What the hell is a positive article about Trump doing on Reason?
All the bootlicking establishment shills get fired? Get hired by MSNBC?
Bush is stupid! Cheney is a warmonger! Tariffs work!!
Sadly, they’re all here in the comments…
This post is political rhetoric masquerading as legal analysis. Selective prosecution (as someone who has argued selective prosecution in a real live courtroom) has a specifically defined meaning. Only the NY Ag's case and the documents case have a colorable claim of selective prosecution. There are other people similarly situated and there is at least a prima facie argument that Trump is being singled out for political reasons. Calabresi claims that his actions are SOP in the NY real estate market (and fuck off with the victimless crime bullshit; tell that to someone doing 60 days for driving without a license). It may be but details matter. Was Trump more egregiously inflating? Again, I don't know but, if this was a serious argument, one should provide some factual basis beyond, well, everybody does it. And Trump's status cuts both ways; it could be evidence of impermissible motivation or it could be making an example out of a high profile figure for deterrence purposes.
In the documents case, you could file the motion for SP but it's not strong. He did not just keep classified material inappropriately; he (or his lawyers) also refused to return materials when requested and lied about it, providing evidence of knowledge and intent. That's certainly enough to tip the scales towards choosing to prosecute.
The Bragg prosecution is dumb and does reek of over-ambitious prosecutor. Nothing more to say on that.
The other two cases may be considered as politically motivated and pretextual but that is worlds away from a selective prosecution claim and, honestly, a law professor should ashamed of conflating the two. Just on the elements, there is no one similarly situated to Trump in either of those cases. This claim is simply not available. The "selective prosecution" claim as to the Georgia and DC cases is more appropriately a jury argument that the prosecution is biased and all relevant inferences should be taken with that in mind.
Trump has received more process than any other normal defendant. If anyone has actually spent time in a trial courtroom, this is insultingly obvious. To claim that his treatment is somehow unfair (or comparing the hush money payments by wealthy politicians to racial profiling) is beyond insulting to the people who the criminal justice system actually does screw over.
). It may be but details matter. Was Trump more egregiously inflating?
Deutsche Bank Testified, in the trial, Bankers dealing with Real Estate Developers, always do their own appraisals, and appraisals are only a partial part of the equation.
The law used against Trump, was written to protect borrowers from fraud perpetrated by lenders. It has NEVER been used against a borrower.
You sound like you know little of Real estate, and less about the law.
The risk management officer at Deutsche Bank at the time Trump got those loans testified otherwise, that "the bank didn’t conduct its own full appraisals of Trump’s properties" and that Trump's fraudulent numbers "helped Trump secure bigger loans and lower interest rates".
Good grief! It is truly astounding — not to mention frightening — that so many people, including this misguided law professor and his followers on this blog, are willing to place Trump on a pedestal above every other citizen and ignore behavior that none of us could ever hope to get away with. I don’t care if you’re a Republican or a Democrat, if you commit fraud, lie about and try to hide government documents that you have no right to possess, and try to overthrow the results of an election, you ought to be tried, convicted, and punished. No wonder the Federalist Society is hoping everyone forgets about Calabresi’s ties to the organization. Pretty soon I expect it will be Northwestern and Yale who will be saying “Calabresi? Who’s Calabresi? Never heard of him."
The topic under discussion, I think, is improperly selective prosecution, not whether Trump is guilty or not. Prosecutors have a lot of discretion; are they unfairly leaning towards prosecuting Trump for political reasons?
My take is yes, some prosecutions seem unduly political, others, not so much. Top of the list is the Hur report which declined to prosecute because Biden is too mentally feeble to convince a jury to convict him.
You think that there should be prosecutions of people without probable cause to believe they committed a crime?
That's not the question at all -- it's whether discretion is being applied based on improper discrimination.
So it is relevant whether someone thinks they're guilty?
What? Do you think you're guilty?
DaveM won't tell us who he has in mind, but I don't think it's me.
People where there is probable cause to believe they committed a crime should be prosecuted, and people where there is not probable cause to believe they committed a crime should not be prosecuted. This is first season of Law & Order stuff.
Strangely, when there is probable cause to believe Democrats committed crimes, prosecutorial discretion always says to not prosecute them. That's why it's selective prosecution when Trump faces charges.
So Bob Menendez isn't being prosecuted? John Edwards wasn't prosecuted? Sandy Berger wasn't prosecuted?
The John Edwards case, as mentioned above, ended up with a policy change that should have forestalled the prosecution of Michael Cohen over almost the same matter. Sandy Berger and Bob Menéndez were relative nobodies, and Sandy Berger got off with charges much less severe than his conduct justified.
We might as well remember Bob McDonnell and Ted Stevens while we're considering the history of partisan prosecutions and selective enforcement.
Not quite accurate: Biden wasn’t charged because there was no probable cause to believe he had committed a crime. The cheap shots about his age are gratuitous garbage written by the special counsel apparently to prove that Hur is a despicable human being doing everything he can to see Trump back in the White House. I assume that would make you happy, too.
Do you know how emotional and biased you sound here? Is there a single shred of Hur’s report that’s provably wrong?
Biden wasn’t charged because there was no probable cause to believe he had committed a crime.
Willfully took, retained and Shared Classified Documents.
Yep. The utter denial in this thread full of attorneys makes me think that the entire legal system needs to be nuked from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Well, Trump isn't being charged for that either, so it's not clear what your and Calabresi's problem even is.
Hur's whining about the memory defence is because he couldn't prove 'wilfully.'
Given the comparison of the Biden and Trump documents cases, I think it worthwhile to consider a neglected point. There needs to be a better explanation for Trump's legally irrational and self-damaging response.
Consider the full gravity of the the legal threat in that case. It seems unreasonable to chalk up the document-hiding, lying, non-cooperation, and witness tampering to Trump's usual belligerence, and leave it at that.
Note that conduct which looks irrational in legal context in Trump's other cases has been plainly rational within Trump's frame of reference—he plays to his base, he raises money, he parades as someone more powerful than the justice system itself. That he does with successful-so-far calculation that the justice system is too cautious to rein him in. It makes sense; he is getting away with it.
The documents case is nothing like that. And yet the chances Trump took in that instance were far more dangerous than any he has done elsewhere. Why? What desperate contingency might there be to make Trump's behavior in the documents case into a better risk than the alternative of forthright cooperation?
Interesting
Maybe he knew he could get away with more in Florida.
Consider the full gravity of the the legal threat in that case. It seems unreasonable to chalk up the document-hiding, lying, non-cooperation, and witness tampering to Trump’s usual belligerence, and leave it at that.
What person has the power to challenge the Presidents power to declassify information?
That is your hurdle. Name that person then get back to me.
What information was declassified? What does it have to do with anything?
1) Donald Trump isn't the president, and thus cannot declassify anything.
2) Donald Trump did not declassify any of these things during his former presidency.
3) None of the charges against Donald Trump turn on whether he declassified these documents.
The "victimless" fraud case may possibly be selective - it depends on the relative magnitude of the offence. But the idea that the fraud is victimless is worthless - and unworthy of a first-term law undergrad let alone a law prof. If someone embezzles a million bucks from his company, goes to Vegas and doubles his money, and then repays the million, does anyone think he shouldn't be tried because the company didn't lose anything?
Meanwhile, have any Democrats who had classified documents prevented their return and got their attorneys to lie in writing about the documents being returned?
Calabresi is showing himself to be an opportunistic hack - no real surprise after his other recent posts.
Yes, Hillary Clinton. 30,000 deleted emails, beach bit server deletions, phones and hard drives destroyed with hammers, secret meetings in parked airplanes, and equipment hidden in bathrooms. No prosecution, but the Sheriff showed up at the last minute to get the town all riled up anyway, and she lost. Worse than a prosecution, perhaps.
i.e., no.
No, real things that actually happened that were really criminal.
Is Mr. Calabresi making some sort of legal argument? Who exactly is Mr. Calabresi claiming is similarly situated? Or is he just throwing out legal-sounding words for atmosphere purposes?
What is the most charitable way to interpret Trump’s post-election behavior, including his frivolous lawsuits, claims that the elections were rigged, speech on Jan. 6 leading to the riots, etc.? I can acknowledge arguments that Trump’s Jan. 6 conduct is not criminal, and perhaps they will ultimately prove meritorious, but Trump’s course of conduct certainly seems thoroughly malicious and destructive to our democratic republic. A claim that attempts to meet this threat are a “witch hunt” or a product of Trump-derangement syndrome is ludicrous.
Not a single thing you listed there was in any way illegal. He had every right to protest what he thought was wrong. They created process “crimes” out of thin air regarding documents, property values and the like. So whine about “behavior” all you want - it’s still a witch hunt. The professor is right.
Callahan, on the premise that there is proof that when Trump made the J6 speech he knew he was lying, do you insist the speech was 1A protected, given the full context of impending violence? To whatever extent it might inflect your response, there is indisputable, rock-solid, beyond-a-reasonable-doubt, evidence that not only had Trump been told the election was not stolen, but also that he believed it, accepted it, and lied anyway.
You can’t know he was lying. There is no way to verify that unless you have physical proof from someone else that he knew he was lying. So your whole premise falls by the wayside.
Callahan, that proof exists, and it is better than reliable; it is unanswerable. If that proof ever goes before a jury, Trump should be toast. But of course the Supreme Court could bail him out after a conviction, or some other president in the White House could pardon him.
I have already detailed the proof in a previous thread, so no need to do it again.
Yes you do .
What proof?
Some people told him he was wrong, so he automatically must have believed them, even though other people were telling him he was right. That's proof right there, don't you understand that? [/sarc]
The main reason we know he was and is lying is that he had absolutely no proof, even though he lied about there being irrefutable proof. 'Malicious and destructive' seems about right.
Its very easy to charge Trump with insurrection. Why Garland refuses to do that, you will have to take up with him.
After the Oral Arguments, and the thrashing Murry took, from the LIBERALS on the bench, your position is moot.
Iowantwo, I am done instructing bad-faith MAGA types on how to target lies.
I provide that as a clue for you. It applies to the proof against Trump. See if you can figure it out.
Otherwise, I will set forward observations which I think will interest good-faith commenters interested in polite dialogue. I will do that when it pleases me, not when a MAGA-type demands assistance.
If you want to help yourself, consider broadening your media selections. You would already know the answer if you had.
Obstruction of justice and fraud are process crimes?
Trump's connection to J6 isn't just a speech at the Ellipse. He was part of a conspiracy to overthrow the investigation and have himself installed in office unlawfully for four more years. Part of the plot was assemblying a mob on the day Congress was to certify the election and send it to the Capitol to coerce Congress into going along with the scheme. During the sedition trials of Oathkeepers and Proud Boys, the DOJ showed evidence of their plans to incite violence. Members of those groups instigated the violence and open the first breaches of the Capitol.
Ok, now demonstrate that the riot was part of his plan, that he directed it. Demonstrate it, don't just assert it.
Because I've never seen anybody do that. They just claim it was part of his plan, even though it actually and predictably ended his plan.
He wanted to delay the official counting of the electoral votes so that state legislatures in certain states (which leaned Republican despite voters choosing Biden) would declare the fake electors correct. The plan involved intimidation, with Trump expressing indifference to, or even approval of, the danger to Pence. We're seeing the same play out now, with some people insisting that Trump must not be disqualified solely because of fear of violence from his supporters.
A sensible person would have expected that this would not work, even with the substantial help of the sitting President; an honorable person bound by an oath to the Constitution would not attempt it, even if he thought it would work. It's a mystery why you would want someone who is neither sensible nor honorable to become President again.
Still just asserting, not demonstrating.
It reflects the testimony at the January 6th committee from Trump's advisors. He liked what he saw on TV and did not want to stop it. I'm not the one asserting without evidence.
I couldn’t WAIT to see the comments from the house lefties. Boys, you didn’t disappoint!!
I have been waiting for one of the right-wing law professors who operate this white, male, faux academic blog to say something -- anything -- about the incessant bigotry that is the signature element of their shitty blog.
They no longer disappoint, because I no longer believe that even one of them has enough courage or character to try to stand up for themselves. What a collection of paltry, bigoted (or, at least, bigot-hugging, without exception) cowards.
You are such a whiner, Art. It doesn’t work. Try a different schtick.
Your mindless, thoughtless, juvenile comments, while perhaps suitable for a middle-school playground, merely show the rest of us that you're not a serious person. Perhaps it's time for you to try a different schtick.
Reread your comment. Physician, heal thyself.
I am pointing out that bigots are bigots. That seems to bother conservative fans of blog that presents a steady stream of bigoted content while advocating for safe spaces for our society’s vestigial bigots.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
I'm still impressed at how many commenters here claim there's selective prosecution, using as evidence a report that lays out exactly why Trump was indicted and Biden wasn't.
A report so full of political bias towards Trump, that statement just about acts as a declaration against interest.
So Joe WANTED these charges to happen. Would love to see how the house libs can square this circle.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/09/white-house-frustration-with-garland-grows-00140813
Holy shit you may be the dumbest commenter on here.
Projection.
You're so dumb you don't even realise why it's dumb.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
So what if he did? According to Trump and his idiot followers, the President has plenary authority over the DOJ and can direct it however he likes. He can personally conduct investigations. He can even conduct investigations into state issues.
MAGAts have short memories.
If your goal this evening is to convince us that you’re working hard to show us the extent of your stupidity, you’re succeeding. Congratulations!
Yes; Trumpkins are so dumb that they think, "Biden was upset that Garland wasn't doing what Biden wanted done" somehow proves that Garland was doing what Biden wanted done.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
While I think the prosecutors are behaving in a reprehensible manner, the real evil lies with the judges. Judges must both be and be perceived as fair and even handed. The NY judges have been grossly biased and unjust. This is the true threat to our system.
The judges, one and all, have bent over backward for Trump. To the point of judicial malpractice, endangering their own lives by encouraging Trump to believe he enjoys impunity from contempt charges. Any other defendant who did what Trump has done to abuse and threaten court personnel, witnesses, and jurors would have long since found himself in jail awaiting trial. We know that not because there is some comparable case to prove it. There is not. Trump has set the record. But in lesser cases of contemptuous abuse of the judicial process it happens routinely.
the real evil lies with the judges.
Yes, MAGA will inevitably end up here - attacking the institution for impurity, just like every other.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Sounds to me like the author has Trump Devotion Syndrome.
It's weird - he has stated unequivocally he will not vote for Trump, and doesn't think he has the character do be President.
So he isn't even doing this shit for any mercenary reasons; he's just a partisan idiot.
Whether he's always been this dumb or has regressed recently, I cannot determine.
So he's a partisan idiot who won't be voting for the partisan candidate?
Yes; his partisanship seems more purely negative. He defends Trump reflexively because Dems are on the other side.
Because intellectual engagement is certainly not why he's making these calls.
It’s marginally better than your ‘Manly In Charge Trump’ thing, but as the OP demonstrates it’s still pretty bad.
If Calabresi kept his arguments to the NY cases he might have an argument, but of course he has to absolve Trump of ALL criminal charges so he as to go after the Florida case as well and exposes himself as a partisan hack.
The criminal federal classified document case brought in Florida by Jack Smith is yet another travesty of unequal justice based on party affiliation in violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause. For years, Barack Obama knew that Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, had an insecure personal computer at her home, which she was illegally using to store and exchange highly classified top secret information.
The classified stuff sent to Clinton's home computer was sent there by accident and Clinton was arguably unaware. And she cooperated with investigators and advice of her lawyers the whole time. A pretty big different Calabresi chooses to ignore.
Most recently, President Joe Biden was excused from prosecution for violations of the law concerning classified documents stored in one's house.
Documents he reported the moment they were uncovered (just like Pence did).
Donald Trump, however, does get prosecuted for mishandling classified documents. This is a blatant double standard for Republicans and Democrats on the handling of classified information. Again, Trump is being selectively prosecuted in violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
FALSE
Donald Trump would have been perfectly fine if he returned the classified docs when asked.
What got Donald Trump in trouble was hiding classified docs from the government and actually deceiving his own lawyers when they were commissioned to return the documents.
Why does Calabresi choose to leave out the most critical aspect of the case? Because he's a partisan hack.
"The classified stuff sent to Clinton’s home computer was sent there by accident and Clinton was arguably unaware".
Clinton was using a 'home computer' for all the State Department's business. It was her own server. Surely you can do better than this. Then again, maybe not.
Prof. Calabresi's recent contributions to the Volokh Conspiracy may serve a useful purpose, by accelerating the pace at which right-wing law professors talk themselves off strong, mainstream, liberal-libertarian campuses.
John Eastman's un-American wingnuttery seems to have precipitated his departure from a law school faculty. Eugene Volokh is leaving UCLA's campus -- headed toward a right-wing advocacy organization -- after he aggravated UCLA with habitual and defiant use of racial slurs and operation of a blog that cultivates an audience of conservative bigots.
If this is a developing trend -- leading law schools recognizing that you can't reason with bigotry, superstition, and belligerent ignorance and therefore should stop trying to do so -- it will be a welcome development. The American mainstream has been appeasing right-wingers -- and their stale, ugly thinking; silly delusions; and aggressive ignorance -- for far too long.
Prof. Calabresi seems to be daring Northwestern to address his polemical, nonsensical, low-grade public statements. Northwestern would deserve no blame for providing an opportunity for Prof. Calabresi to expand his employment horizons in a direction likely to lead to a more comfortable ideological home for his obsolete, objectionable, reality-defying views -- a school such as Liberty, Regent, or Ave Maria, or perhaps even Brigham Young or Notre Dame.
...at least both of them are still living. Biden talks to dead people.
Well I've said more than once that I think Trump is too old and shouldn't be running either, but Joe is in quite obviously worse shape.
Hur and Jack Smith seem to agree with me.
I wish he had actually locked her up. But the fact of the matter is, he did not. It is Democrats and solely Democrats wielding the power of the state against their political rivals.
Trump ordered his Justice Department to look into prosecuting her. Unfortunately even his servile lackeys couldn’t find anything to pin on her. Don’t you remember?
Kinda like abortion/trans laws, yes?
If MAGAs did not distort facts to match their world view, their entire identity would collapse.
And that's why they're always using a paraphrase where he supposedly asks Raffensperger to find them. Oh, excuse me, "find" them. Because they want to pretend he was demanding Raffensperger manufacture the votes for him.
He was asking for access so that he could find irregularities he claimed were present. He even told Raffensperger where it thought he'd find them.
So, naturally, Raffensperger had given him access to voting records someplace else, just to be a dick about it.
Or the judges don't even pretend to be fair anymore. There's no way that Giuliani talking about two ugly and fat black women playing games with the ballots was worth $150 million, but the white Catholic school boy maligned as anti-Indian should get nothing.
James is a stupid jogger.
Using a reference to a murder victim as a substitute for a racial slur sure is something that a good person does.
.
Does a single Volokh Conspiracy have enough character, courage, or decency to say anything about the incessant bigotry that is never far from the surface at their white, male, right-wing blog?
Just one?
Anybody?
What's wrong? Trump got your tongue? Afraid you'll be shunned at Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation events? Does this blog enforce a policy against participants' genuine (rather than partisan, selective, unconvincing) objections to bigotry? Worried that Ginni Thomas and Leonard Leo are keeping a list?
I hope those responsible for hiring and retaining professors at legitimate law schools are observing this longstanding display of cowardice, bigotry, and shabby character; are drawing the appropriate conclusions; and will arrange the proper consequences.
#Cowards
#Hypocrites
#Bigot-HuggingLosers
"couldn’t find anything to pin on her"
She had Top Secret + Special Access Program on a personal server in her home. You don't get to rewrite history and conflate the fact that because the permanent government bureaucracy declined to prosecute one of its own with no wrongdoing occurring.
Queen's only tool is ad hominems
Why can’t we just nuke the hurricane to dissipate it?
Nobody ever talks about the downside of windmills… they kill whales!
Can’t you just like shine a light inside your lungs or inject disinfectant?
Everyone forgets the heroic efforts of true patriots who stormed the British airbases during the revolution!
E Jean Carroll? Never met her, definitely not my type. Oh hey— there’s a picture of me and Marla!
J6 was an inside job and even if it wasn’t— it was all “birdbrain” Haley’s fault! She was in charge of the capitol police!
Elect me and I’ll keep us out of WWII!
I am worth 2 billion dollars!
See Biden's job approval:
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/approval-rating
In 2024, there is a difference???
Incisive point, Ed. There is no difference.
There are only 2 ideologies: Democrat and MAGA.
No wait, that's not right. There are tons of ideologies and you're a simpleton.
Yes. This has been yet another episode of Simple Answers to Stupid Questions.
Obviously!
A jury set the award against Giuliani, not a judge.
Of course, Trump also made threats about how bad it would be if those votes weren’t found.
You and your fellow liars keep ignoring that.
Are you claiming that Clinton did not have classified and national security information illegally stored on her illegal personal e-mail server? Actually, much of it also ended up on the laptop shared between her top aide and her exhibitionist husband, Anthony Weiner.
If so, show your work.
I’m thinking of Trump’s rising popularity in swing states, specifically. https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/politics/devastating-set-of-polls-shows-trump-comfortably-ahead-of-biden-in-7-most-important-swing-states/ar-BB1hyj1B for example.
I don't think it's useful to use national polls for what is essentially a state by state race.
A surging Donald Trump would beat President Biden if the election were held today, a new NBC News poll states.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/02/04/trump-jumps-ahead-of-biden-in-new-nbc-poll/
Don't underestimate the Ray Bradley Effect -- Trump has always gotten about 5%-10% better than polls have had him at because people don't want the grief of admitting they will vote for him.
It is victimless because lenders invariably do their own due diligence. Their own appraisals. No one depended on Trump’s figures. No one. Then, instead of allowing testimony as to the actual value of the properties at the time the loan applications were made, he instead used assessed/appraised values, which are notoriously unrepresentative of actual value.
Quite obviously. We've got an independent counsels say so.
No, you're thinking of the W Bush administration's e-mails.
Not what the report said, and even if it were that doesn’t make it gospel.
Hur?
A registered Republican. Trump appointee. Federalist Society "expert." Kozinski clerk. Rehnquist clerk. Republican donor. Federalist Society member. Bush (the lesser) administration veteran.
That Republicans appoint Republicans (Durham, Mueller, Walsh, Starr) to special counsel positions is unremarkable. That Democrats continue to appoint these clingers (Hur, Fiske, Ray, Smaltz, Danforth, Weiss) to special counsel positions is inexplicable.
Yeah, political consequences for being seen actively working against his own party's Presidential candidate.
Threatening political consequences for failing to do something that's even arguably within somebody's power is not a crime.
I like the vague use of the phrase "she had." People sent it to her; she didn't put it there. It's not a crime to be the passive recipient of mishandled classified information.
They cause cancer. Windmill cancer.
Trump mentioned criminal consequences also. And threatening political consequences for failing to hand an election over to the loser is also a big problem.
political consequences for being seen actively working against his own party’s Presidential candidate.
No. Stop the BS framing. He wasn't "working against his own party's Presidential candidate."
He was doing his damn job and declining to participate in illegal activity.
The Georgia ballots were recounted twice. Biden won, legitimately, despite all the lies you so eagerly swallow about suitcases, etc.
State polls this far out aren't much to go on either; more recent polls in three states show Trump less favored than "North Carolina (+10), followed by Nevada and Georgia (+8), Wisconsin and Michigan (+5), and then Pennsylvania and Arizona (+3)". More recently +5% in North Carolina, +1% in Wisconsin, +1% in Pennsylvania. Some of the others don't have more recent polls.
Most people aren't thinking about the fall election much, and Trump has devoted followers who obsess over the wrongs they think he has suffered while more eventual Biden voters may be in the "Others" category.
5-10% is another exaggeration from Dr. Ed 2; more like 2-4%, even in 2016. It's not clear whether reluctance to say Trump when they eventually vote Trump is because they are embarrassed by admitting it, but it is true that Trump is an embarrassment even for any American. It may just be that Trump voters are harder to reach in polling.
Yeah, that's not how it works. Almost everything the Secretary of State does is classified. The server should never have been in her home to begin with.
He’s leading Biden more now than he was before. That means rising popularity. Enough with the semantics.
That’s just a denial. That most certainly happened. Grow up and argue like an adult.
Are these arguments? Or just knee jerks?
If the banks completely ignore the loan applicant's figures, why do they ask for them?
Just wondering.
I mean, that's 1,000% wrong. The vast majority of what the Secretary of State does is not classified, and moreover, we're not talking about what "everything the Secretary of State does." We're talking about emails sent to or from the Secretary of State. As pretty much anyone who uses email for work — i.e., anyone under the age of 90 or so — knows, the vast majority of emails are nonsubstantive. (All you have to do is look at the actual facts here: she turned over tens of thousands of emails, and a few dozen email chains were deemed to contain classified information.)
Moreover, no classified information should have been sent regardless of where the server was located. Classified information gets its own discrete email network; it isn't to be sent to the Secretary of State's ordinary work account maintained by the government, either.
The value you give the bank is a "gets you in the door" value. That's all. If the deal looks good enough to bother, THEN they do due diligence.
'That most certainly happened'
No, it didn't. There was one confirmed piece of classified information, an e-mail sent to the server classified afterwards.
'Grow up and argue like an adult.'
I prefer not to make shit up, is that adult enough?
And it should be legal to commit fraud, apparently.
At least you admit the variance exists.
Unlike Dr. Ed 2, I look for and accept the information readily available on the internet. Everyone should try that.
OK.... I happen have worked with classified info for decades, so unlike you, I know of what I speak. So you can drop the Clinton campaign talking points. They are a little outdated by now anyway.
The location and schedule of the Secretary of State would have routinely been classified as for official use only (now called "CUI") and negotiations with other countries would routinely be secret. Sometimes higher.
You are correct that classified information gets it's own network (there is more than one network actually). But anyone who sends anything to the freaking Secretary of State should be confident at that she's authorized to receive it. She wasn't using Gmail after all!
Even if Clinton was just some innocent victim receiving secret information, and she sent nothing out herself, then at a bare minimum she should have reported it each time it happened, and had her server sanitized. That's yet another reason why it was supposed to be in a secure location.
This is by any measure worse than having piles of classified documents in a garage or bathroom. Thousands of documents are hardcopy and take a long time to sift through, an email is softcopy and can be sent to thousands of people at the touch of a button.
CUI stands for Controlled UNCLASSIFIED Information.
You probably need to take that training again.
1) You should not make assumptions. I worked for a TLA for a half-dozen years.
2) Not sure why you're telling me that some of the information the SOS deals with is classified; of course it is. What does that have to do with the fact that much of what the SOS deals with is not classified? (As I mentioned, out of tens of thousands of work emails she turned over, they identified a few dozen email chains with classified info — some of which was upclassified post facto. That means tens of thousands of unclassified emails.)
3) Yes, if she recognized classified info in any of the emails, she should have reported it (and the sender!), but that has nothing to do with the location of the server. (I don't understand your gmail comment.) If they sent it to her regular official state department email account, it would also be reportable.
lol. That's not how words work.