The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Objection That It Is Too Soon To Adjudicate Trump's Qualifications
[Note: This is the eighth in a series of essays responding to objections that have been made to enforcing Section Three of the Constitution. The first seven essays can be found here, here, here, here, here, here and here.]
Another quasi-jurisdictional objection that has been made to the state ballot access litigation in particular is the argument that it is too soon to decide whether Donald Trump is eligible to the Presidency. Though it is not always labeled this way, this amounts to a sort of "ripeness" argument – that the Section Three question is simply not ripe for decision at this stage and in this posture. The timing argument was made at length in an early amicus brief by Senator Steve Daines and the National Republican Senatorial Committee, and has since been picked up in part by Trump's merits brief.
The core of the argument is that Trump cannot be excluded from a state ballot (whether in the primary or general election): (A) because Section Three only prohibits "hold[ing] . . . office," not running for office, and (B) because Congress has the power, by a two-thirds vote of both houses, to remove the Section Three disability, it is possible that by the time of office-holding (or even later), Donald Trump might become eligible to hold office, even if he is currently ineligible to hold office because of having engaged in insurrection. (Indeed, Trump's reply brief argues (at 22-23) that the clock should be held open "between now and January 20, 2029"!)
But this objection misunderstands the nature of ballot access as well as the nature of Section Three.
To start off, it is true that Section Three does not of its own force regulate ballot access. It applies to "hold[ing] . . . office," not running for office. But so what? As we discuss at length in our original manuscript, The Sweep and Force of Section Three, Section Three simply provides a rule of decision that governs anybody whose official duties call upon them to make decisions about eligibility. That can include election officials responsible for creating, distributing, and counting ballots, if state law so provides. And according to the Colorado Supreme Court, the authoritative expositor of Colorado law, Colorado's legislature has provided for the exclusion from the presidential primary ballot of those who are not eligible to serve as President. In other words, Section Three makes clear that Trump cannot hold the office of President. And state law provides that those who cannot hold the office of President should not be on the ballot as presidential candidates.
This state authority is well-established. Article II of the Constitution says that presidential electors shall be appointed "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct." And cases have uncontroversially held, for example, that a state may lawfully a exclude a 27-year-old from the presidential primary ballot, and may lawfully exclude a non-natural-born citizen from the general presidential election ballot. Insurrectionists disqualified by Section Three are no different.
Proponents of this argument claim that Section Three is different because of the amnesty clause: "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability." This is alleged to make it uncertain whether Trump or anybody else covered by Section Three will still be disqualified in November or January. But what difference does it make? Trump, and others covered by Section Three are disqualified now. (Congress can chose to "remove such disability" only because that disability already exists – here and now.)
Similarly, in theory the 27-year-old and the non-natural-born citizen candidates might also become eligible, if Congress were to propose and the states were to ratify a constitutional amendment. But it has never been seriously suggested that we should not enforce these legal requirements now because they might change in the future. Indeed, in Trump's reply brief he concedes (in n.36) that these questions "obviously must be assessed under the Constitution as it currently exists." Under the Constitution as it currently exists, Trump is not eligible to "hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State." Now is as good a time as any to say so.
With respect, what seems to have given this argument "legs," in our view, is not so much its dubious legal merits as its supposed political expediency. The argument is seen to offer the Court an "off ramp" that would allow it to reverse the Colorado Supreme Court, ruling in favor of Trump, but without accepting any of his various (unacceptable) arguments about Section Three. Somehow, this is thought to be a politically preferable alternative to a straightforward affirmance or reversal on the merits.
Our specialty is law, not politics, but the political merits of this approach are hard for us to understand. If the Court rules that it is too soon to adjudicate Trump's qualifications for the office he seeks, when will it be time? In November, when most presidential election votes are cast? In December, when the electors meet? In January when the electoral votes are counted in joint session? On Inauguration Day? Each of these options seems riskier and riskier. Far from a convenient "off ramp" (or leisurely rest stop), it looks to us like a formula for a chain-reaction massive multi-car pileup. It would seem safer to us to keep one's eyes on the road.
Law students quickly learn that procrastinating their seminar papers until the day before the due date does not make them any easier to write. And it does nobody any favors for a major contested election to proceed under a cloud of uncertainty. Donald Trump wants to be the President of the United States in 2025. Others believe that Section Three of the Constitution forbids him from holding that office. There is no logical or legal reason not to determine and decide who is right – before the heat of the general election campaign, if possible – rather than waiting for some imagined future day when the questions will somehow become easier or go away.
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This is a brilliant summary of this entire series of posts:
Section Three simply provides a rule of decision that governs anybody whose official duties call upon them to make decisions about eligibility.
That would include the military, which swore an oath to obey lawful orders and to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Under their reasoning, they can overthrow FJB if they judge that he is disqualified due to mishandling the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
So if a buck Marine private tries to depose FJB, and is apprehended, will Baude and Paulsen represent him pro bono against mutiny charges in a general court-martial?
That's not what "self-enforcing" means.
They argue that:
*If* the law says that it's someone's job to evaluate qualifications for president and do something about it, then that includes the insurrection disqualification.
So unless you're saying it would be the military's job under law to enforce the 35-year-old or natural born citizen qualification, then no.
Section 5 gives the Congress the power to say whose job it is though. They didn't give it to the military.
Section 5 doesn’t say, “none of the existing law about evaluating qualifications for office can apply to *this* one, till Congress says so”. Not unless there’s an implied “sole power” when it says “power”.
It at least means Congress can override & add to any existing law about it, sure.
Baude’s argument is that section 3 means “this disqualification is now added to the list, to be applied by any law out there about presidential qualifications”. Military doesn’t have that job for presidential qualifications in general, so they don’t have it here.
But various State (and federal) officials do have the legal responsibility to evaluate presidential qualifications in general. In at least some states.
Oh good grief. This is just some really dumb stuff. Trump made a speech telling people to protest the certification of the election. You get to do that in America without legal ramifications due to the protections provided by the First Amendment. He also lobbied Congress (including Pence, who was performing a legislative duty) to certify his electors. This is also First Amendment protected activity.
So basically, we have a process where a trial judge (with whatever bias he/she may have) gets to look at whatever he or she chooses, come to the conclusion that it constitutes an “insurrection” and bar Trump from the ballot. The appeal isn’t de novo, and the trial court’s factual findings aren’t subject to any real standard of review.
Yeah, all good.
Essentially, all of the arguments that Trump incited tHe Insurrection®™ boil down to this.
Trump promoted Badthink®™, and because some people rioted on the basis of Badthink®™, that was an insurrection and Trump incited it.
Some may argue this applies to Patrice Cullors, Nikole Hannah-Jones, Charles M. Blow, and many others. After all, they chanted, “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot”. They claimed that the police habitually hunt down and gun down unarmed Black men. They claimed the criminal justice system is systemically racist. And some people rioted on this basis.
It would apply if this principle was enforced in an even-handed manner. But the same side that says that Trump was promoting Badthink®™ also believe that Cullors, Jones, and Blow were promoting Goodthink®™, and those who rioted based on this Goodthink®™ were not engaging in Insurrection®™, but fighting White Supremacy®™
Imagine the precedent of encouraging people to protest as a disqualifier for elected office and what that would do to the Democrats....
See this amicus brief.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/298014/20240118120731316_23-719%20Amicus%20Brief%20of%20U.S.%20Senator%20Ted%20Cruz.pdf
Even if one concedes there must have been serious political violence aimed at the government to qualify as an insurrection, there are still plenty of examples for state officials to choose from. Consider the politicians across the country who supported protests throughout the Summer of 2020, culminating in the White House security fence being breached and President Trump being taken to the White House bunker, hindering the execution of the laws.13 “With full knowledge of these sometimes-violent” riots throughout the summer, Pet.App.93a, some politicians still spoke out in favor of them, even telling protestors to target President Trump,14 and some politicians gloated afterward that the President had been taken to the bunker as a result of the breach of the White House grounds.15 Violence aimed towards the sitting President was perhaps unsurprising given the public calls by at least one Representative since Even if one concedes there must have been serious political violence aimed at the government to qualify as an insurrection, there are still plenty of examples for state officials to choose from. Consider the politicians across the country who supported protests throughout the Summer of 2020, culminating in the White House security fence being breached and President Trump being taken to the White House bunker, hindering the execution of the laws.13 “With full knowledge of these sometimes-violent” riots throughout the summer, Pet.App.93a, some politicians still spoke out in favor of them, even telling protestors to target President Trump,14 and some politicians gloated afterward that the President had been taken to the bunker as a result of the breach of the White House grounds.15 Violence aimed towards the sitting President was perhaps unsurprising given the public calls by at least one Representative since 2018 for members of the public to confront and harass Trump officials.16 The Summer of 2020 also saw months of nightly violent attempts by large crowds to breach and destroy the Portland, Oregon, federal courthouse, using Molotov cocktails, power saws, rifles, and other weapons.17 Under the Colorado Supreme Court’s expansive definition of “engage in,” any political supporters who were never present in Portland could nonetheless be deemed covered by Section 3 for publicly calling for the protective agents to be stopped, especially if they stood by those remarks even after rioters “barricaded federal officers inside [the] courthouse — and tried to set the building on fire.”18 Such conduct by politicians was distasteful but scarcely would have been thought to qualify as insurrection—until the Colorado Supreme Court got involved, that is.
See also amicus briefs by Vivek Ramaswamy and Peter Meijer.
Exactly. And the attack on the White House was actually worse because while there is no real impact on delaying Congressional action for a few hours (Biden still got elected), there could have been serious consequences if the President was in the bunker instead of being able to be in the Situation Room.
Also don't forget that all Daniel Shays did was attack courts and the US Arsenal -- Washington was/is something like 400 miles south and in 1786 that would have been 20-30 days on horseback. Possibly longer because he wouldn't have been able to take the shoreline route with all the bridges that weren't there then.
Vivek Ramaswamy wrote a legal brief?
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/295491/20240111125114383_23-719%20Amicus%20Brief%20Ramaswamy%20Supp.%20Pet..pdf
This is interesting reading material.
It was a rhetorical question, but thanks.
And when the latter didn't work — because it would've been unlawful — he arranged to attack the Capitol. Which is not First Amendment protected activity, but instead an insurrection.
Wow.
He ordered those pipe bombs to be planted?
https://twitter.com/RealBrittain/status/1754647932115046527
Did he also order Secret Service agents to delete their cell phones?
The Trumpers expressly told the authorities the crowd would not go to the Capitol (when asked repeatedly about whether the permit should cover the Capitol), then talked among themselves about how they had lied and how important it was not to reveal the lie, then sent the mob toward an undefended Capitol.
Other than that, though, great comment!
And this is relevant, how? He gave a speech. Come on, man.
I hope no one's health or wealth relies on your judgment.
How does a speech cause a riot?
How does speech precipitate any crime?
Have you ever seen a movie? A television program? Read a book?
Some of the FDRers were in the Klan and went out lynching Black people for fun. I'm no fan of Franklin Roosevelt but was *he* to blame for that, or was the Klan?
And what idiot with a scintilla of knowledge about crowd control doesn't anticipate that things could spiral out of control from what the organizers genuinely planned/intended to do? No, the Boy Scouts *won't* roll tires out onto the busy highway because they are Boy Scouts -- bullshyte, I think I'll make sure they don't if it's all the same to you...
He "arranged" an attack on the Capitol? What does that even mean?
This is what you guys are relying on: "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore,"
Compare that to any red meat speech by Democrats such as Barack Obama (gun to a knife fight), Chuck Schumer (reap the whirlwind), and the list goes on and on.
It means that David Nieporent is not afraid to lie, even blatantly, for The Cause.
You got that right. He must have developed quite a track record.
If Trump did “arrange to attack the capitol” then surely they can present evidence to prove it and not rely on the absurd coded language “expert” testimony.
"Oh good grief. This is just some really dumb stuff. Trump made a speech telling people to protest the certification of the election. You get to do that in America without legal ramifications due to the protections provided by the First Amendment. He also lobbied Congress (including Pence, who was performing a legislative duty) to certify his electors. This is also First Amendment protected activity."
Uh, no. Speech or writing integral to criminal conduct is not First Amendment protected. As an amicus brief for Floyd Abrams and a bevy of First Amendment scholars explains:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/299220/20240130143600068_23-719%20Amici%20BOM%20Floyd%20Abrams%20et%20al%20PDFA.pdf
How gloriously circular! Maybe you could share with the class the actual speech at issue in Hansen, and how you think it reasonably analogizes to the speech at issue here.
Except, as I demonstrated before, nobody who heard trump say ‘you need to go to the capitol and fight like hell’ could have been at the capitol to breach the barriers to invade the capitol.
The first breach of the capitol was at 12:53, Trump finished his speech at 1:10. Anybody who heard Trump telling someone to fight like hell at the closing of his speech would have been Johnny come lately’s to the invasion of the capitol.
By the time they could have gotten there the house would have been adjourned.
There can not be a cause and effect where words not yet spoken, coded or not, caused an invasion of the capitol.
Will this long national nightmare of posts never end?
Everything will end in the same way for all clingers -- replacement. How far along the trajectory of the stomping of conservative aspirations in the culture war that replacement occurs will vary among the culture war casualties, depending on how long it takes a particular clinger to die off and be replaced by a better American.
No Bob from Ohio, we are condemned to read the nightmarish posts until we die.
It wasn't an "insurrection"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The actual insurrection is this legal bullbleep being used to remove the man who otherwise will be our next President.
Also, see this video from Glenn Greenwald about the whole "Trump Colluded with the Russians®™ to Steal the 2016 Election" propaganda campaign.
https://rumble.com/v4azhqc-system-update-show-222.html
I heard that Trump Colluded with the Martians as well....
And the napkin makers.
Some of the commentary is getting comical take this Vox headline and ontradictory sub-headline:
"Trump’s legal arguments for staying on the ballot are embarrassingly weak
It’s hard to imagine this Supreme Court removing Trump from the ballot. But his lawyers gave the justices very little to work with."
If Trump's arguments are embarrassingly weak, but he is almost certain to win, doesn't that mean the arguments for removing him are even more embarrassingly weaker?
I'd say that's an embarrassingly weak headline. But they know their audience, got to slam Trump and throw shade on his lawyers, but still got to prepare them for the clear probability of a loss.
The arguments are not the same thing as the votes.
Here's a rephrasing of that headline (in all seriousness) to help you:
"It's hard to imagine these justices ever being willing to remove Trump for the ballot, regardless of what the law is. But Trump's lawyers made such bad arguments, that the justices are going to have a hard time coming up with an excuse to rule in his favor."
That's what the headline means. You can think they are stupidly wrong, that's what it means.
If you can't understand what the people who disagree with you are saying, it's really going to interfere with your ability to respond without looking bad yourself.
It depends upon what the meaning of insurrection is. (Analogy is Bill Clinton's famous “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”)
Indeed it does, but see if you can spot the difference between the word "is" and the phrase "engaged in insurrection".
Just have the Presidential candidates chosen by Ear-ron's Guardian Council, probably be fairer than the US Judicial system
I hope that Trump gets acquitted, elected President, and then prosecutes Biden for letting millions of illegal aliens cross the border. Then maybe people will understand that prosecuting ex-presidents is a bad idea.
Nah, just have an Ill-legal kill Dr. Jill Biden in a drunk driving accident, like happened with his first wife.
NO. His first wife died because she ran a Stop sign.
Or failed to remain stopped at one -- distinction without a difference.
Truck driver was sober, truck's brakes were OK, he was coming down the hill with a load of corn cobs and there was nothing he could do.
don't stop me Ed, I'm rolling
Your hopes are destined to die in the culture war and be buried -- by better Americans -- at the Graveyard of Right-Wing Preferences.
Getting stomped by better people in the culture war and by better ideas at the marketplace of ideas has consequences.
Carry on, clingers.
Wow, a Coach Sandusky triple play!
"Bettors", "Klingers" and "Stomped" in 3 sentences.
Speaking of Sentences, any chance of yours getting commuted any time soon? With Senator Fetterman being blessed with lucidity, I think your window has closed, might want to see if you can sneak it past Parkinsonian Joe before he assumes room temperature.
Frank
Jerry Sandusky is a conservative Republican and a stain on society, much like Joe Paterno, you, most of this blog's right-wing fans, and more than a few of the fringe law professors who operate this white, male, bigot-hugging, faux libertarian blog.
What would the criminal charge be?
Enabling an Invasion
I don't think that word means what I think you think it means.
The legal issue has been decided. The Biden DoJ considered charging Trump with insurrection, and concluded that there was no such case against him.
That's a different legal issue.
Seems to be kicking the can down the road, let him on the primary ballot, the the real one, then, if he still wins, disqualify him on the elector vote day. Or Jan 6 2025. Or something.
Yeah. The proudest moment for US politics since accepting slavery as a principle. Using trickery to discard the Will of the People in order to, get this, future historians, you will
Not
Fucking
Believe
It
...to save democracy!
How would the founding fathers had time to found the country if they had to pick their own Cotton
The good news, I suppose, is that the MAGAs have all been reduced to babbling.
better than blithering like you
Under the independent state-law theory, there’s no ripeness problem.
Otherwise, there’s an argument to be made that there is a ripeness problem, at least when it comes to preliminaries like primaries.
But the Court’s precedents strongly suggest this argument won’t hold water. The Supreme Court has adjudicated multiple ballot challenges based on the 14th Amendment that were first initiated prior to any election happening. Anderson v. Celebrezze is a salient example; various shadow-docket orders during the 2020 election represent others.
True, past 14th Amendment challenges have been based on Section 1, not Section 3. But it’s not clear to me why this should matter.
I notice the same idiocy in the main Reason article comments - posters being unable to separate the issue of eligibility if Trump was an insurrectionist with whether he was an insurrectionist.
They are not the same issue.
It's bad enough in a comments section aimed at lawyers and others allegedly familiar with the law.
"You don't want to go in the desert."
This comments section is aimed at disaffected, spectrum-inhabiting right-wingers and old-timey bigots, not lawyers.
I do think we should be investing more time in planning out what to do if Trump ISN'T disqualified from enough state ballots, and DOES go on to win, though. Past experience is that we can't dodge the really difficult questions forever, and when the answers turn out to be important, they're going to be important on a DEADLINE.
What to do? Batten down the hatches.
But I find it very hard to believe that the Supreme Court is going to allow each State to decide what they feel the 14th Amendment means to them. One way or another, Trump will be on all the ballots or off them.
well duh, I’ll got out on a limb, On way or another Sleepy Joe will be alive or dead in November (I’m guessing dead, natural causes! natural causes!) and wonder what the odds of both Sleepy and Hunter getting the Celestial recall by erection day?
Frank
There won't be an election if Trump is off the ballots. Or if Biden is...
In honor of Black History Month, I'll post this in Jive.
Man, aint that be sum shee-it, give nigguzz dee showtest munt dee yeer, yall be goan true sum mack in nations tryin tro trump off de ballot ib he be de weakest can i date
Frank
Prof. Volokh thanks you for that racial slur, although he already fulfilled this blog's racial slur quota today.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your stale, bigoted right-wing thinking could carry anyone or anything in an America that has passed you by.
Another timing issue may be the distinction between the primary and general election ballot. Perhaps SCOTUS can punt by affirming the decision below with a strong caveat that the decision does not address whether Trump can be excluded on a general election ballot (with a strong hint for the states not to do that).
Will no one rid me of these tiresome legal arguments? I hope the Supreme Court rules unanimously on this issue one way or the other.