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Amicus Brief Filed in Trump v. Griswold On Behalf of Professor Seth Barrett Tillman
"By contrast, a holding that the President is not an 'Officer of the United States' would authoritatively resolve the Section 3 case against the Petitioner. In that event, it will be the people, and not judges, or state officials, or Congress, who will decide."
On Friday, January 5, the Supreme Court granted certiorari in Trump v. Griswold, the Section 3 case from Colorado. Today, my co-counsel and I filed an amicus brief on behalf of Professor Seth Barrett Tillman in support of the Petitioner. (The Court set January 18 as the deadline for amicus briefs, but we filed early.)
Here is the summary of the argument:
This case turns on two threshold questions: "Can States enforce Section 3 in the absence of federal enforcement legislation?" and "Is the President an 'Officer of the United States'?" Both of these questions were settled long ago. In Griffin's Case, Chief Justice Chase recognized that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment required federal enforcement legislation. And a historical tradition stretching back to the Early Republic establishes that "Officers of the United States," as used in the Constitution, are appointed, and not elected. Yet, this settled tradition was unsettled in the wake of January 6, 2021. The Colorado Supreme Court discarded Griffin's Case and ignored all textual evidence that the President is not an "Officer of the United States."
This Court should reverse on both grounds. First, Griffin's Case settled the meaning of Section 3, is consistent with the longstanding sword-shield dichotomy in federal courts' jurisprudence, and reflects a core premise of reconstruction: Congress, and not the distrusted States, was empowered to enforce Section 3. Second, the four provisions of the Constitution of 1788 that use the phrase "Officers of the United States" do not refer to the President. And the Framers of Section 3 used that older, extant, limited language, in particular the Oaths Clause, and in doing so carried forward the meaning of "Officers of the United States" from that "old soil." In 1788, 1868, and today, "Officer of the United States" in the Constitution extends exclusively to appointed positions and not to elected positions.
A ruling on the first ground would immediately halt the litigation in Colorado and other States. A ruling on the second ground would authoritatively resolve the Section 3 case against Petitioner in the leadup to January 6, 2025.
I am grateful to my co-counsel: Robert Ray, R. Scott Reisch, Jessica L. Hays, and C. Thomas Ludden.
After the jump, I've included key excerpts from the brief.
I. Plaintiffs' Requested Relief is Barred by Griffin's Case (1869)
In Griffin's Case, 11 F. Cas. 7 (C.C.D. Va. 1869) (No. 5815), Chief Justice Chase held that Section 3 is not self-executing.[1] In other words, Chase held that Section 3 could only be put into effect on behalf of a private party seeking affirmative relief against the government, e.g., a party seeking habeas relief, if that relief was authorized by a federal statute. Under Griffin's Case, the relief sought by the Respondents is barred precisely because they are seeking affirmative relief against the government to enforce Section 3 without authorization from federal enforcement legislation.
This Court should follow Griffin's Case. This decision, and its progeny, settled the meaning of Section 3. Griffin's Case is consistent with the longstanding sword-shield dichotomy in federal courts' jurisprudence. And Griffin's Case upholds a core premise of Reconstruction: Congress, and not the distrusted States, was empowered to enforce Section 3.
[1] See Blackman & Tillman, Sweeping and Forcing the President into Section 3, 28 Tex. Rev. L. & Pol. 350, 482–84 (forth. 2024), https://ssrn.com/abstract=4568771 (hereinafter "Blackman & Tillman").
….
II. In 1788, 1868, and today, "Officer of the United States" in the Constitution extends exclusively to appointed positions and not to elected positions
In this litigation, there is actually some consensus. All sides agree that the presidency is an office, and by implication, the President is an officer. All sides agree that the President is not an officer of any particular state, or of a foreign government, but is an officer of the United States government. All sides agree that the President is not somehow above the laws of the United States, but is under, and subject to, the laws of the United States. Finally, all sides agree that rank-and-file members of Congress are not officers of any stripe. This is where agreement ends.
The Respondents argue the President is obviously an officer, and an officer of the United States, and holds an office under the United States. The Respondents present their conclusion as the only rational reading of the Constitution. They argue that the contrary position renders the Constitution a "secret code." They warn about absurd consequences if the presidency is not an "Officer under the United States." They insist that the Framers never would have intended to exclude the President from Section 3. These arguments may sound plausible at first blush, but crumble on closer inspection.
First, there is nothing "secret" about Amicus's position. Amicus uses the same methodology employed in D.C. v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008). To understand the original meaning of "the right to keep and bear arms," Justice Scalia analyzed the "historical background" of that provision in its antecedent provision, the English Bill of Rights. Id. at 592–93. Likewise, the roots of "Office under the United States," are in the English and British legal tradition, where "Office under the Crown" referred only to appointed positions, and not to elected positions. The phrase "Office under the United States" was used in the Articles of Confederation and in the Constitution. Here, the Framers "employ[ed] a term of art obviously transplanted from another legal source, [and] it brings the old soil with it." Biden v. Nebraska, 143 S.Ct. 2355, 2379 (2023) (Barrett, J., concurring) (citations omitted). In the Constitution of 1788, the presidency was not an "Office under the United States."
However, the phrase "Officer of the United States" was not widely used in federal and state organic documents prior to 1788. Because there is no "historical background" of "Officer of the United States" in documents like the Articles of Confederation, Amicus analyzes how that phrase is used in the Appointments Clause, the Impeachment Clause, the Commissions Clause, and the Oaths Clause. Irrespective of how "Officer of the United States" may have been used outside organic documents, the Appointments Clause defined the scope of this phrase in the Constitution.
The text of these four provisions supports the conclusion that "Officers of the United States" refers to appointed positions in the Executive and Judicial Branches of the federal government. But this phrase does not extend to appointed positions in the Legislative Branch, like the Clerk of the House, because these positions are not appointed pursuant to the Appointments Clause. This textualist argument has been recognized by jurists for two centuries, including Chief Justice Marshall and Justice Story. There is no "secret code."
Second, Respondents argue that Amicus's position would lead to absurd consequences. For example, they argue that if the presidency is not an "Office under the United States," then the President could freely accept foreign gifts. As a threshold matter, Respondents have some explaining to do. Under their position, members of Congress do not hold an "Office under the United States," so Representatives and Senators would likewise be exempt from the Foreign Emoluments Clause.
Moreover, there is no potential parade of absurdities if the President is not an "Officer of the United States." Indeed, to date, the Respondents have not produced a record of anyone stating that the President is an "Officer of the United States" for purposes of Section 3. None. But in April 1868, while ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment remained ongoing, a Louisville newspaper, citing the Commissions and Impeachment Clauses, argued that the President was not an "Officer of the United States."
The Framers of Section 3 had no reason to think about a person who: (1) was elected as President; (2) but had never before taken any other constitutional oath; (3) then is alleged to have engaged in insurrection; and (4) then sought re-election. The "failure to appreciate the effect of certain provisions" does not support the invocation of the "absurdity doctrine." Antonin Scalia & Bryan A. Garner, Reading Law: The Interpretation of Legal Texts 191 (2012). And Amicus's position easily clears the bar of objective reasonableness. See Brett M. Kavanaugh, Fixing Statutory Interpretation, 129 Harv. L. Rev. 2118, 2156–57 (2016). Finally, "[m]aking exceptions either to achieve greater equity or avoid absurdity offends the rule of law norm …." Amy Coney Barrett, Substantive Canons and Faithful Agency, 90 B.U. L. Rev. 109, 168 (2010). This principle is especially apt in a case seeking to disqualify a presidential candidate from the ballot. The Respondents wield absurdity as a loose canon.
Third, Respondents ultimately abandon all principles of original public meaning, and turn back the jurisprudential clock to original intentions. Justice Scalia stated the proper rule: "What I look for in the Constitution is precisely what I look for in a statute: the original meaning of the text, not what the original draftsmen intended." Antonin Scalia, A Matter of Interpretation 38 (1997). Yet the Respondents are "forced to abandon the [constitutional] text and precedent altogether and appeal to assumptions and policy." See Bostock v. Clayton Cnty., Ga., 140 S.Ct. 1731, 1749 (2020). In effect, the Respondents "contend that few in [1868] would have expected [Section 3] to [not] apply to" the President. See id. Bostock emphatically rejected this purposivist jurisprudence:
But the limits of the drafters' imagination supply no reason to ignore the law's demands. When the express terms of a [text] give us one answer and extratextual considerations suggest another, it's no contest. Only the written word is the law ….
Id. at 1737.
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment was a compromise. Early versions of Section 3 would have restricted the franchise of all former confederates, or restricted the ability of all former confederates to hold public office. But the most the 39th Congress could agree upon was to "exclude from certain offices a certain class of persons." Griffin's Case, 11 F. Cas. at 25 (emphases added). Therefore, the Framers reached to extant, limited language in the Oaths Clause, and in doing so carried forward that "old soil." Perhaps some expected Section 3 to cover a person who only took one oath as President, but that is not what the ratified text means.
In the Constitution, the President was not an "Officer of the United States" in 1788, in 1868, and today. That is enough to definitively resolve this action, and, by implication, all other Section 3 cases concerning the Petitioner. Finally, if the Court agrees with Amicus that the President is not an "Officer of the United States," then there is no need to opine on whether the presidency is an "Office under the United States," and the consequences that may result from such a decision.
….
CONCLUSION
If the Court holds that Section 3 is not self-executing, and requires federal enforcement legislation, the litigation in Colorado and in other state courts would come to a halt. But in Congress, an important date looms on the horizon: January 6, 2025. Can the joint session of Congress determine that electoral votes for a purportedly disqualified presidential candidate are not "regularly given"? 3 U.S.C. § 15(d)(2)(B)(ii)(II). There is no clear answer to this question, and we are uncertain if an appeal to the courts would lie from the joint session.
By contrast, a holding that the President is not an "Officer of the United States" would authoritatively resolve the Section 3 case against the Petitioner. In that event, it will be the people, and not judges, or state officials, or Congress, who will decide.
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So what? If that's what the constitution directs, those are the ones who should decide, et caelum ruat.
And since there's no real question that Section 3 takes some choices out of the people's hands, I'm not sure this is worth much as rhetoric either.
What if the Constitution “directs” it, but 80 million disenfranchised voters won’t accept it and will plunge the country into continuous utter chaos and kill tens of thousands of people because 9 unelected people took their vote away from them?
I really can’t stand all this Constitution worship on these issues. The Constitution is not the most important thing in the world, the heavens do not fall when courts refuse to enforce portions of it, and there isn’t any Deity with the power to overrule things that millions of people care about (such as their vote for President).
Judges should absolutely consider the pragmatic implications of what they are doing, and really, honestly, it’s not like the Constitutional meaning here is as obvious or fixed as the people trying to throw Trump off the ballot say it is. They are, not to put a fine point on it, lying, and presenting this as if it is no different than a 32 year old who naturalized as a US citizen at 28 running for President.
The Constitution isn’t the only or even the primary thing that matters here. Not interfering with the democratic process with legal shortcuts that could piss 80 million voters off by stripping them of their vote IS the primary concern here.
Shorter Dilan Esper: Judges should bow to hypothetical terrorism.
Judges should absolutely not lightly disenfranchise 80 million people, and predictable violence is one reason why.
Judges are not gods and being intellectually "right" about what the Constitution means is not the paramount value of society. People's votes are not an intellectual game.
They're not disenfranchised, they just don't get to elect people who aren't eligible to hold office. No matter how many people might like Arnold Schwarzenegger to be President, they're not disenfranchised by the fact that he can't be.
If the government prevented you from voting for Joe Biden, you wouldn't say "I technically wasn't disenfranchised".
D.E. and Ed, bookends around spurious civil war predictions.
Trump claimed the 2020 election was stolen, and got a few thousand followers to do an insurrection that he could support as sitting President. So it's not likely.
But you want judges bowing to that sort of threat (and explicitly, from a later comment)? Shouldn't the 117th Congress, politicians who have far more justification for heeding public pressure, just have reinstalled Trump for fear of that violence? Shouldn't the courts currently considering Trump's immunity motions just cave and say, sure, whatever Trump does is legal, no matter how illegal for anyone else? The country is ruined if judges start weighing the threat of violence, and doing so openly is infinitely worse.
I would prefer that Trump be on the ballot, not because I think it's impossible that he would win, but because if this country is so fucked up that it would elect him again* then we're done and I'd rather rip the bandage off quickly and find out quickly that the Constitution is a suicide note.
* including Trump winning by illegal means, whether disenfranchising voters or using the same threats of violence to intimidate election workers.
Dilan sees himself as the Last Honest Broker, telling the hard truths that people on both sides don't want to say/hear, and speaking in good faith when others will not.
Can one gain an honest reputation by calling for corrupting the courts?
Hoo boy. I'm gonna go stock up on popcorn for the shitstorm you're about to endure for this one.
I don’t completely disagree, but court is not the forum in which to make such arguments.
I realize it won't be, but I think we'd actually be better off if courts WOULD be explicit about this.
Maybe it's that I'm getting too pragmatic for my own good, but I disagree - I'm all for some eyewash on courts juking their analysis for pragmatic reasons.
All big systems run on a subtle person-to-person interplay between integrity and flexibility.
Making such an interplay open would smooth out that interplay and you're left with a machine that has no lubricant - not long for this world.
1. Trouble is, for an institution like the judiciary, which the rubes have been led to believe is deciding cases impartially, and whose decisons should be respected as honest conclusions based on the law, the cost of disillusioning the rubes is very high. Collapse of faith in the courts. Much higher than the cost of the rubes discovering that Presidents and Senators occasionally tell fibs.
2. And the concern to avoid the sky falling is not one which applies to the judiciary. The judiciary can always be overruled by the legislature if they are seen to be interfering with the joists that hold up the sky.
3. But good to see you expounding Breyerian jurisprudence openly for a change. That your oft deployed impassioned offense at suggestions that judges have their thumbs on the scale is contrived, is no surprise to me. But perhaps there are still some rubes left who will lap it up.
I think you have excluded the middle and taken me for a legal realist.
This isn't an absurd position to take—but is there any other sphere where Profs. Blackman or Tillman have taken it?
Why does that matter? Dilan Esper is making his own argument, and it is a cogent one. (Not sure if I agree, but it is a strong one.) So what if it is not consistent with prior positions of Blackman, Tillman, or the Tooth Fairy?
It is not cogent. It ignores that appeasing the MAGA crowd is a goad to the others, who are probably more numerous. Esper only looks sensible to folks who judge the MAGAs so dangerous that they must be given their way, at whatever cost to everyone else.
How is Trump to get 80 million votes?
He got 63 million in 2016, taking the presidency with a three-cushion bank shot at the Electoral College against former Sen. Clinton, who received three million more votes.
He got 74 million in 2020, losing by seven million votes (his lies and his supporters' gullibility notwithstanding) to the calm, cool, and elected Joe Biden.
Since 2020, millions of poorly educated, roundly bigoted, insurrection-hugging clingers have died off and have been replaced in our electorate by better, younger, more diverse, less bigoted, less religious, less rural Americans.
What reason supports associating Trump with 80 million votes in any reality-based world?
He needs about 80 million votes to win. If he's not going to win, why are you worried about taking him off the ballot?
I addressed the apparent silliness of any contention that it would be reasonable to expect Trump to receive 80 million votes in the reality-based world.
I don't have a strong sense of whether Trump should be removed from the ballot in any particular jurisdiction.
I have a strong sense that any claim Trump would get 80 million votes is as stupid and delusional as Trump's assertion (and his pathetic, gullible supporters' claim) that the 2020 election was stolen.
With the much fewer than 80 million votes he could get, Trump needs people to cower before the threat of his cultists' violence, if only to find him the mere thousands of votes to win any given swing state.
Not interfering with the democratic process with legal shortcuts that could piss 80 million voters off by stripping them of their vote IS the primary concern here.
Ironically, if Trump had listened to this advice after he lost the 2020 election, we would not be having this conversation today.
Very true.
Dilan wants something like the Israeli Supreme Judicial Court where the standing requirement has been pretty much abandoned and the court can issue orders on anything including deployment of troops during war. Absolute rule by the lawyers.
Fun stuff if you go for authoritarianism. I don't. I like living in a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives and a democratically adjacent elected president.
How do you draw this conclusion from his comment?
JFC you're stupid; that's literally exactly the opposite of what Dilan said.
I get it. He's saying Dilan wants SCOTUS to ignore the law and instead make policy, which is what Dilan proposed, and comparing that to how the Israeli Supreme Court works, which (I agree less with this part) is an unconstrained arbiter of policy.
He's saying Dilan wants SCOTUS to rule, whereas Dilan is saying exactly the opposite, that SCOTUS needs to step back and let the public rule.
Gold star for deliberate obtuseness, well done. A classic illustration of why Dick the Butcher remains a popular political theorist.
As Randal explained, a judge declining to apply the law that he thinks applies, because he doesn't like the policy implications, is still "ruling" contrary to law. He is granting victory to the team that wants the law not to be applied, even though legally they should lose.
But in this particular case, your suggestion that Dilan wants "SCOTUS [to] step back and let the public rule" is absurd. Trump is appealing against an extant Colorado court judgement, that takes the matter out of the public's hands. Thus if SCOTUS were to "step back" - eg reject the case as improvidently granted - then the Colorado judgement would still stand. And contra Dilan's policy wish, the decison would not be turned over to "the people."
In short, you are not demonstrating any qualification for throwing out "you're stupid" jibes.
Lee Moore, saved me the trouble. And did it better than I would have. Thanks.
You're continuing to be stupid. Dilan is not talking about "policy implications." Dilan is talking about public reaction. Those are very different things.
And yes, you're right; he's not talking about SCOTUS stepping back and letting the public rule; he's talking about all courts stepping back and letting the public rule. That's in contrast to the Israeli Supreme Court, which is making decisions rather than letting the public decide.
Dilan is not talking about “policy implications.” Dilan is talking about public reaction. Those are very different things.
1. Randal, to whom you replied, referred to policy
2. No they are not "very different things" - the latter is a subset of the former, to wit, policy on managing public opinion. The Chief Justice's lodestar.
That’s in contrast to the Israeli Supreme Court, which is making decisions rather than letting the public decide.
3. The approach of an activist court is to let the public decide (contrary to the law) if the public happens to be in agreement with the court's policy preferences; and to kick the public in the teeth (contrary to law) if the public is not in agreement with the court's policy preferences. Thus either action or inaction, in each case contrary to law, is the court pursuing its own policy preference. Thus you are making a distinction without a difference.
Promising violence and chaos if Trump can’t run but when Trump tried to disenfranchise millions of voters the worst thing that happened was a debate about whether the Constitution frowned on that sort of thing.
Had Trump's insurrection been successful (which would be the situation comparable to the Supreme Court ruling Trump is disqualified), I think there would have been more serious consequences than just a debate frowning on "that sort of thing"...
There might even have been some finger-wagging, though I note that you're drawing equivalences between lawless and lawful behaviour.
Explain the mechanics of exactly what "success" would be.
Not interfering with the democratic process with legal shortcuts that could piss 80 million voters off by stripping them of their vote IS the primary concern here.
I'm not a lawyer but seems to me that pandering to a mere majority of voters (and maybe not even that) by trashing the Constitution seems to be an excellent way to - trash the Constitution.
I agree that whatever is decided would be better decided BEFORE an election. Much better. But the Constitution is very clear on a few things:
1. We don't elect the President. We elect electors. Those electors act according to rules established by the states - which is why 'faithless elector' laws are deemed valid. Indirect elections and an electoral college provide plenty of ways for the 'results of an election' to differ from the 'results of an electoral college vote'. That's the whole point. And is presumably why electors are specifically included in the 14Asec3. All the above is also what makes the section self-executing because it is only the states who can qualify electors - which must be done BEFORE the election in which they are elected.
2. Congress is given the authority to certify electoral results or not. And presumably to assess whether the Prez elect is disqualified from office. And to free that person who may be under question from disability by a 2/3 vote.
Since that Congressional determination can occur as late as Jan 2025, it's pretty clear that the potentially disqualified Prez candidate cannot be removed from the general election ballot by Nov 2024. Or rather they must be allowed to choose their list of electors - with whatever non-valid 'name' is put on the ballot as a proxy for their electors. But what a shitshow that election - and intifada2.0 - will be. Question is - are voters of this generation capable of understanding that they themselves can resolve this problem?
Why can't a state have a rule that it doesn't want to risk allocating any electors to a potentially disqualified candidate, and therefore it doesn't need information on the relative popularity of that candidate and would rather get a clear picture of the relative popularity of the remaining candidates by leaving the potentially disqualified one off the ballot?
Because if Congress is the one who determines whether the candidate is ACTUALLY disqualified - but only after the election; then the state is taking the authority to 'remove the disability' away from Congress by keeping them off the general election ballot.
On edit - I can see a scenario where the state eliminates a Prez candidate from the ballot who engaged in insurrection while holding a state office. Fortunately that doesn't apply here, so I'm ok with the SC punting on that scenario until the NEXT Prez candidate who may or may not have engaged in insurrection while holding state office.
The CO particulars are for a PRIMARY election - which is not a federal election at all. It is merely a beauty contest applicable for the first ballot of a party convention. Parties themselves can decide to eliminate the primary and revert to caucus - which the CO GOP says it will do. But which isn't necessary since CO has put Trump back on the CO primary ballot. I don't see how there is any federal authority there at all - and it's all moot anyway.
The Jan2025 shitshow is that Trump has already been impeached on that charge of insurrection - with a majority of each house impeaching or finding him guilty. Since this particular version of insurrection was the Prez attempting to eliminate the legislative authority over election process, that insurrection is entirely political - not a criminal offense. So it will get ugly since Trump is more interested in a shit show than in 'making a deal' to get a consensus in Congress to override all that politics and remove any disability.
Because if Congress is the one who determines whether the candidate is ACTUALLY disqualified – but only after the election; then the state is taking the authority to ‘remove the disability’ away from Congress by keeping them off the general election ballot.
You made a nonsense.
How else could Congress remove the disability if states have already removed the candidate with the potential disability from the election?
Why can’t a state have a rule that it doesn’t want to risk allocating any electors to a potentially disqualified candidate,
Why would the State want to usurp the power of the People. The people are perfectly capable of doing a risk benefit analysis of how the choose to use/risk, their ballot.
The notion that the govt has to play nurse maid to voters is absurd.
Randal's (very reasonable) question is a legal one, not a policy one. So whether it is a good idea to constrain the voters' choice is irrelevant. The question is whether it is legal.
I may very well be wrong. but I believe that the cases saying that the federal constitution's restrictions, on who may be elected, may not be added to by the States (or by Congress) have been about Congress.
It's not at all obvious that the same logic applies to Presidents, because the power to appoint electors is pretty unrestricted. If as we have recently been told by SCOTUS, States can bind electors to vote in accordance with their pledges, it's not at all obvious why States cannot also bind electors to vote only for people who have been resident in the State for 10 years, or only for people who have never been convicted of a felony. State legislatures perhaps might have to steer clear of "protected class" discrimination, but otherwise if they wish to require their electors only to vote for, say, veterans, it's not obvious why they should not be allowed to do so.
I see this "states rights" angle as being a trump card for Colorado at SCOTUS. Thomas in particular is a bit gung ho on states rights as regards elections. He could be a surprise vote for Colorado.
"What if the Constitution 'directs' it, but 80 million disenfranchised voters won’t accept it and will plunge the country into continuous utter chaos and kill tens of thousands of people because 9 unelected people took their vote away from them?"
I am highly skeptical that a ragtag band of keyboard warriors and Trump humpers will engage the federal government. If they do, the ensuing carnage will boost the nation IQ, though.
Exactly. If that's where the country is, we'll just have to deal with it. Better than having SCOTUS taken hostage by terrorists.
Hypothetical: You’re a judge. A few years ago, some cranks in town managed to get a lynch mob together after they disagreed with a verdict. It was successfully put down. Most of those involved are still in prison.
Since then, a few times a year you’ve heard a case that caused the cranks to threaten another lynch mob. You made the rulings according to law, and nobody formed a lynch mob. There were a lot of threats, and a few individuals planned violence but got caught.
Now, you have a case before you that has the cranks’ attention. You think maybe they really will form a mob this time, but it’s only a hunch, and recall that the original lynchers are in prison. Do you rule with the law, or with the cranks?
Now, I live in the comfort and security of a non-public life, where the only death threats I receive are through video game chat systems. But my take is:
(a) Allowing a heckler’s veto by threats of violence is not pragmatic, it’s short-sighted. That sort of thing inevitably (and historically) leads to innocent people getting convicted for unpopularity, offensive skin coloration, or being in the wrong place during a moral panic.
(b) Riots and widespread violence are highly unlikely and shouldn’t be given much weight. The people making threats are the ones that stayed home on January 6.
(c) If they were an issue, they’re going to come up in one of Trump’s other court cases anyway, so you have to dismiss all of it to avoid the threat. See (a).
(d) But I don’t have a problem with Trump winning the disqualification litigation (and I think he will). I would like it to be a decision made from the law, rather than out of fear or partisanship, though.
Sorry, but just because millions of Southerners weren’t willing to accept the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause and 15th Amendment didn’t justify effectively pretending they didn’t exist prior to the 1950s and 1960s.
This is no different.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact
-Justice Robert H. Jackson
"A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means"
-Thomas Jefferson.
Well, yes, that's true. But the problem is, once you invoke that, then it tends to get invoked for many things that are nowhere near the level of necessity or self-preservation. IOW, everything becomes an "emergency" requiring the ignoring of Constitutional rules and norms.
Indeed, Jackson said his "suicide pact" line in dissent in Terminiello, arguing that we couldn't have too much free speech because bad stuff would happen.
This is generally taken to mean that if there are two alternative interpretations of the law, and one is a threat to the republic, assume the other one is intended.
It is not taken to mean fuck the Constitution if you think a crisis is big enough.
If Profs. Blackman and Tillman feel their position isn’t consistent with the constitutional text, but is nevertheless necessary to forestall a dangerous result, they ought to say so explicitly.
"The Respondents wield absurdity as a loose canon."
Nice.
14A - Section 3.
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, ..."
US Constitution - Article II Section 1.
"The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows: "
First impression is the presidency is an office under the US.
No one really disputes this.
But is the occupant an "“Officer of the United States” to which the clause applies? The phrase is used in other sections so has to mean the same thing each time it appears.
Not only do Profs. Blackman and Tillman dispute this, they do so explicitly in this very post.
It's actually not quite that clear, whether the office is "under" the US or the office "is" the United States.
It gets around to the old image the the king "is" Great Britain (or France) or what not. They are the symbolic representation OF the country, not merely an office "under" the country.
You get into a series of arguments about if someone is the Head of State. If they're the head, then the other offices are under them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_state
Does the United Statws have a king? I forget.
In many ways, yes. The Presidency can be accurately thought of as a kingship that is accountable to the people.
Monarchy was the default from which the constitution differentiated itself through the separation of powers. This is why the Constitution puts quite a lot of verbiage into explaining the roles of the courts and the legislature, and very little into explaining the presidency.
Consider the many king-like powers the President has- plenary pardon power; the ability to make proclamations (executive orders) on the running of the country; the role as Commander in Chief of the military; appointment of judges, justices, military officers, and administrators.
All of these powers are made accountable to the people by the electoral process and the impeachment process, but make no mistake: these powers are real, and they are exactly the same powers that a king would have.
The president of course does not have the power to appoint people, and "executive orders" are not "kinglike" at all; every middle manager on the planet has the power to give orders to the employees that report to him.
A normal conclusion from the fact that the constitution spends a lot of time describing congressional power and not much time discussing presidential power is not that the president is a king, but rather that the president doesn't actually have much power.
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That is something a half-educated, un-American, authoritarian imbecile would write.
You may be the precise target audience of the Volokh Conspiracy.
Until Empire, not even the Romans took such an extreme view of their magistrates.
Read further in Article one. You will find an enumerated power of the President is to appoint, ALL officers. Does the President appoint himself?
I see that Blackman/Tillman address Mark Graber's research by pretending it doesn't exist.
A point one or two Justices may be expected to extoll strenuously!
“Indeed, to date, the Respondents have not produced a record of anyone stating that the President is an ‘Officer of the United States’ for purposes of Section 3.”
However, Gerard N. Magliocca has identified an extensive set of contemporary references to Section 3's exclusion of leading Confederates from the presidency. If the original public understanding was that Section 3 disqualified oath-breaking insurrectionists from being President, the original public meaning of Section 3 necessarily was that the President is an “Officer of the United States.” Here is the partial list of contemporary references, Magliocca submitted in connection with Section 3 proceedings in Maine.
1. Gallipolis Journal (Feb. 21, 1867) (stating that Reconstruction without Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment "would render Jefferson Davis eligible to the Presidency of the United States").
2. The Pittsburgh Commercial (June 29, 1867) (quoting a speech by General John Rawlins, Ulyssus S. Grant’s top military aide, in which Rawlins said that under Section Three: “Those rendered ineligible to hold office are not disfranchised, but all the rights appertaining to citizens are theirs to enjoy, save that of holding office. Every other citizen in the United States who has the requisite qualifications, no matter how conspicuous he was in the rebellion, no matter how hard he fought against the Government, is eligible to any office civil or military, State or Federal, even to the Presidency.”).
3. The Milwaukee Sentinel (July 3, 1867) (stating that Jefferson Davis "may be rendered eligible to the presidency by a two-thirds vote of Congress").
4. The Sunbury Gazette (July 18, 1868) (stating that under universal amnesty "the worst rebels are to be eligible for the highest national offices, so that upon this Democratic platform Robert E. Lee might yet become President of the United States").
5. The Daily Journal (Oct. 19, 1868) (“The third article of the fourteenth amendment excludes leading rebels from holding offices in the Nation and state, from the presidency downward”).
6. The New York Daily Herald (Mar. 29, 1871) (advocating Section Three amnesty legislation that "will make even Jeff Davis eligible again to the Presidency).
7. The Indiana Progress (Aug. 24, 1871): (quoting by a speech by Senator Oliver Morton of Indiana stating he would never vote for Section Three amnesty for Jefferson Davis and John C. Breckenridge [the Confederate Secretary of War and former U.S. Vice-President] because that would make them eligible "to the Congress of the United States, it may even be to the Presidency"
8. The New National Era (Aug. 31, 1871): (stating that Section Three amnesty would make Confederate leaders “eligible to the presidency").
9. The Highland Weekly News (Sept. 21, 1871): (stating that the Fourteenth Amendment “provides that no rebel who had violated an official oath to support the Constitution of the United States, should ever be eligible to the Presidency").
10. The Public Ledger (Oct. 3, 1871): ("Fred[erick] Douglass might be President. Carl Schurz cannot [he was foreign-born]. Every Southern man who lies under the ban of the Fourteenth Amendment cannot.").
11. The Burlington Free Press (Jan. 19, 1872) (summarizing a debate in Congress on a proposed constitutional amendment limiting the President to one term in office that “would be treating General Grant more severely than Jefferson Davis, because although the latter is disqualified by the 14th amendment, it is still within the power of Congress to remove his disability”).
12. Urbana Citizen and Gazette (Apr. 25, 1872) (stating that amnesty would make Jefferson Davis "eligible to a seat in the Senate, or to the Presidential chair itself").
13. Chicago Tribune (May 24, 1872): (stating that the Amnesty Act of 1872 made "Alexander M. Stephens, the Vice President of the Rebel Confederacy, eligible to the Presidency of the United States").
14. The Tiffin Tribune (July 18, 1872) (quoting Congressman John A. Bingham's speech declaring that he would never support Section Three amnesty for Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders because they "should never hereafter be permitted to be President”).
15. The Rutland Daily Globe (Dec. 11, 1873) (stating that a general Section Three amnesty was justified "even if Jeff Davis is made eligible to the presidency").
16. Ottomwa Weekly Courier (Aug. 18, 1875) (quoting a speech by Senator Morton in which he said that all but about 100 former Confederates “have had every political disability removed arising from the Fourteenth Amendment and are eligible to be elected to the highest office in the land”).
17. 44 Congressional Record 325 (1876) (statement of Rep. Blaine of Maine) (rejecting Section Three amnesty for Jefferson Davis because that would mean that he “would be declared eligible to fill any office up to the Presidency of the United States”).
18. Chicago Tribune (Jan 12, 1876) (stating that the amnesty legislation before Congress “is a bill to make DAVIS eligible to the presidency”).
19. Sioux City Daily Journal (March 5, 1879) (stating that Jefferson Davis could be the Democratic nominee for President in 1880 “but for one thing” and then quoting Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment).
20. The Belleville Advocate (May 7, 1880) (stating that holding President Grant ineligible to a third term of office would “be placing him on a par with Jefferson Davis so far as “eligibility” for the presidency is concerned”).
21. Buffalo Morning Express (April 28, 1882) (summarizing a debate in the House of Representatives on universal amnesty legislation and stating that this would mean that Jefferson Davis could be “Commander-in-Chief of the Army of the United States”).
No. Unfortunately all your references are irrelevant to your conclusion that the President is an Officer of the United States.
Whether the Presidency is an office from which Section 3 can bar you depends on whether it is an “office UNDER the United States.”
The expression “officer OF the United States” is used in the other bit of Section 3 - whether any particular person is eligible to be barred from ANY office under the United States, by virtue of having broken the relevant oath in an insurrectionary fashion.
The argument about the meaning of “officer of the United States” has nothing to do with whether the Presidency is an office you can be banned from, it’s about who can be banned from any of the offices.
Absolutely true of course. I just wish you'd capitalized OFFICE / OFFICER rather than UNDER / OF.
This Mark Graber research which starts with this reader note:
“Note to readers. This is still a too rough draft of what started as an amicus brief in the cases seeking to disqualify Donald Trump. Considerable cutting will be needed for the amicus brief, but I thought getting all the information and citations out there would be useful, even if this never sees the light to day beyond SSRN (publication suggestions would be useful). I should also note that while I have cleaned the first six sections, the rest is desperately in need of reorganization, citations, and lots more (and I realized I needed to discuss the Second Confiscation Act). Sections VII and IX are particularly messy, incomplete, and repetitive. So some sections are more in the vein of “you get the idea.” With some luck, a few cleaner sections will be available shortly.” https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID4591133_code829721.pdf?abstractid=4591133&mirid=1
I don’t think its fair to Graber or incumbent on Blackman and Tillman to address Grabbers points until he says its ready to address.
Its a no win situation, they poke a hole in something, and he says that's part of the rough draft that I took out of my unpublished updated draft. They decide not to comment so they can see his final product first and they are dodging it.
Its actually fairest to Graber to hold their fire until he actually says its ready.
I'm not asking them to respond to Graber's inchoate amicus brief. I'm saying that they need to address his research which shows that they're full of shit when they claim that there's no record of anyone considering the president an officer of the u.s.
Regardless of anything Josh submits to the US Supremes, there is a high liklihood that they are going hold that Trump is not disqualified from running for or serving as President.
Once they make such a holding, Josh will declare victory and claim credit. Everything beyond the Court’s holding will be pure gravy for Josh.
If the Court’s majority expressly rejects any “the President is not an officer” line of argument, Josh will still claim credit for advancing a proposition that the Court considered.
If the majority rejects any “the President is not an officer” line of argument, but Thomas or Alito endorses such arguments in a concurrence, Josh will have an orgasim. If they cite him by name, Josh’s orgasism will last for days.
If the majority adopts any “the President is not an officer” line of argument, Josh will gloat about for the next 30 years or until he spontaneously combusts.
I sincerely hope we eventually get a response from Josh confirming whether the precise prediction you've made here came true. That's good content.
He will never know about the prediction because he never reads the comments 🙂
I can pretty well testify to that!
I'll claim victory too, and I read the comments.
Just because I I'm not submitting my brief doesn't mean nobody read it, even if its incredibly unlikely.
But I am not completely shameless, if they don't rule based on some flavor of my section 5 argument, then I will rip them mercilessly.
Is co-counsel here the same Robert Ray who bargained away the prospect of criminally prosecuting Bill Clinton after his second term ended in exchange for Clinton's agreement to a five year suspension of his Arkansas law license?
If he had prosecuted Clinton (the only charge was perjury as to Monica Lewinsky — think about that — all those years of investigation going back practically to his college days and the only thing they could find was lying about sex) it would have been yet another example of the law being applied to Clinton for something that’s hardly ever applied to anyone else.
The only reason they couldn't charge more is because Susan McDougal decided she'd rather spend a year in prison under contempt charges rather than testify against Hillary and Bill, over the failure of Madison Guarantee Savings and loan.
Then the cattles future scandal wasn't charged because because the statute of limitations had passed.
As a former Arkansas resident in the '80s I knew a few people who were friends and neighbors and colleagues of some of the principals of the cattle futures caper. It was actually just a scheme to provide some outside income to the Clintons while Bill was getting started in his political career by Don Tyson, who's Tyson Chicken was headquartered in Fayetteville Arkansas. Where Bill lived of course when he was a professor at the University of Arkansas before he became the Arkansas AG and raped Juanita Broderick of Ft Smith, Arkansas.
Why are you calling Juanita Broaddrick (note the spelling) a perjurer? She swore under oath that this didn't happen.
I would have been happy for the law to be applied to Clinton; he was a lawyer and knew exactly what he was doing.
Riddle me this: how in tarnation can the phrase, "any office, civil or military, under the United States," exclude the commander-in-chief?
Same reason why the Crown is not an office under the Crown.
The head of state is understood to be an incarnation of the state.
The King of England is the Commander in Chief of the UK Armed Forces. But I’m glad to say that he, like the President, delegates.
“The head of state is understood to be an incarnation of the State”.
Most definitely not, in our system. This is not the UK where all power theoretically flows from the Crown, subject to whatever limitations the Crown has permitted. The President merely “presides”, and for a limited time.
Do you suppose it includes the Office of the Chief of Staff?
I don't state this conclusion as the "right answer", I merely offer it as a standard, not-remotely-off-the-wall answer that would be offered by some theorists in such matters.
Thus the very first line of Wikipedia's article about "Head of State" says :
"A head of state (or chief of state) is the public persona who officially embodies a sovereign state in its unity and legitimacy."
Wikipedia is not, of course, an authoritative source as to substance but the fact that that the "Head of State = embodiment of the state" is there in line 1, does suggest that it's hardly an outré suggestion.
You will note that the article clearly covers Republics as well as monarchies.
Of course there are other "authorities" who take a different view. English Bob had a low opinion of the majesty of Presidents.
Well English Bob was definitely right.
He was probably thinking about Joe Biden.
Your concept is right.
The President is not an officer of the Executive Branch. The President IS the Executive Branch. All power of the Executive Branch flows from the President.
He's not an incarnation in the US. I agree w/captcrisis.
A president is still, of sorts, a "custodian of the state".
But exclusion of the presidency from "officer of" is beyond senseless in terms of consequences. Such a thing could not be law.
"Officer under" is harder, because the anti-sectarian concerns (please, not anti-democratic; this is the 1860s we're talking about) that animated Section 3 don't apply to the nationally elected president. The phrases "office under the United States/any state" must be read in parallel, and the exclusion of governors is rankly illogical. It follows that if they are officers under their states, the president is an officer under the United States.
The best approach, though, is to say that the presidency is legally included amongst "office(s) under" but practically/politically excluded. In the 1860s and 70s, there was no concept of ballot access; there was simply no way to keep someone from being elected. If one remembers the intense populism of the time, assuming the people elected a person who was or appeared to be covered, who was Congress to say no to them?
The election of that man would reflect either public judgment that he was not an insurrectionist, or judgment that he should hold office notwithstanding (Congress could invoke removal of disability if necessary). The people who adopted 14A were simply not into democracy quashing, though they were intensely worried about sectionalism. Under the ethos of the time, seating someone who had been elected president would be expected, particularly if he had won the popular vote.
I'm not sure too much weight can be placed on perceived illogicalities.
For example Section 3 is totally silent on those who choose to affirm their support for the federal constitution, rather than take an oath to that effect.
Should we add in affirmers on the grounds that it is illogical to exclude them ?
What the ever-living fuck are you talking about? L’état c’est moi is the opposite of a republican government. The president is not a king. He’s not king-adjacent. He’s just an employee of the government. Yes, he runs the executive branch. On a temporary basis. The people who work under him take an oath to the constitution, not to him. He is a mere officeholder.
Offices are “under the United States.” Officers are “of the United States.” It’s simply grammar; not an attempt to create some secret get-out-of-jail card for one officer.
You don't understand; prepositions are the key to understanding the entire constitution! The founding fathers deliberately chose these little clues so that most people wouldn't understand what they were saying, and they chose not to write down any other hints.
There are really two "officer" questions. Was Trump an officer of the US who took an oath? Is he a candidate for an office of the US?
Maybe these have the same answer, as the wording is similar, but I do not think it is obvious, given the hair-splitting legal distinctions here. Which is Blackman arguing? He seems to be saying No to both. For Trump to win, he only needs the answer to be No to one of them.
Well since we are on the subject, and everyone seems too embarrassed to make a request specific for me to repost my proposed brief. Here it is in a Google docs link:
Only Congress Has The Power to Enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z1d-Q8dzR8tGeAXGRXLqY82dkXQIVS_0fAG_KaIW65g/edit
Next time just ask, no need to be shy.
You say: "There is no controversy that the power granted by the 16th amendment is exclusive to Congress."
No. the states also have the power to collect income taxes.
Lets not go through that again, do some research and think about shit before you comment.
States had income taxes and were collecting them before the 16th amendment.
The Civil war Federal income tax had been struck down decades before.
Why could the States have an income tax before the 16th amendment even though the federal income tax had been struck down? Because they get their authority from state constitutions, and are definitely are not restricted by prohibitions put upon Congress in Article 1 of the US Constitution.
Its also the same reasons that the Federal Government can’t implement a property tax, because its not capitated, and it is not an income tax as permitted by the 16th Amendment.
But that doesn’t affect the states because their own constitutions allow it.
I answered this question 10 times on last nights open thread, but that’s not your fault.
But I’m becoming appalled at peoples ignorance about how our federalist government works.
That is all correct. The income tax power is not exclusive to Congress. Maybe you meant to say that the 16A granted to Congress a power that the states already had.
What I am saying is the 16th amendment didn’t grant any power to the states whether they had it previously or not.
Its a different power from a different source than the states power to tax incomes.
Its the same theory that allows the federal government to charge defendants of federal charges when they have already been acquitted in state court. States and federal governments are dual sovereigns.
The 16th amendment says: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
Nothing express or implied about state power there, it only grants power to Congress not the states.
Contrast with the 18th amendment: “The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.”
That’s how Amendments grant powers to the states.
One other data point, Washington doesn't have an income tax, although the State Legislature has passed one a few times. The reason it never came into effect is because the WA Supreme has consistently struck it down as violating the State Constitution.
If the 16th Amendment granted any power to the states then the supremacy clause would void any state laws or state constitutional articles to the contrary.
So I guess you are refusing to correct your brief.
You keep saying that over and over. But what you haven’t done a good job of explaining is why 14/5 doesn’t work the same way.
In other words, why don’t states have the power to decline to cast their electoral votes for insurrectionist Presidents? You can say that 14/5 doesn’t give it to them — which is clear enough — but you can’t say that it takes it away. Which is what it seems like you were saying yesterday.
Well that is a completely different question, if we assume that 14/5 doesn't allow states to disqualify a candidate under 14/3, then Term Limits v Thornton 1995 says states (nor Congress either) can't add their own qualifications to the existing Constitutional qualifications for federal office.
That’s true of directly elected positions like Senator or Representative. It’s not true for President. States can choose their presidential electors however they want (within general constitutional constraints like Equal Protection).
You're trying to argue that 14/5 somehow constrains state's choice of electors. That can't be, in exactly the same way that the 16th Amendment doesn't take away states' taxing powers.
Exactly. The President is no more elected by the people than federal judges are. All decision-making power in the matter is given to state legislatures, not the people.
Um, if multiple people had the same reaction to your statement — and I assure you that there's not much that Roger S and I agree on here — then perhaps the problem is with your statement.
Roger S 17 hours ago
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"No. the states also have the power to collect income taxes."
The states have the power to assess and collect state income taxes, They dont have the power to assess collect federal income tax (with the caveat that there are limited exceptions to collect taxes that have been assessed on behalf of the federal government )
To my knowledge, Congress has never enacted legislation implementing Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment. Does that mean that courts are (and were) precluded from honoring it?
Nust pointing out that while Professors Blackman et al. claim to base their argument in originalism, their “it will be the people and not judges, od state officials, or Congress, who will decide” argument in the headline is as unoriginal as it gets.
The Constitution’s text expressly gives the decision solely and exclusively to the state, specifically to state legislatures and, as Moore v. Harper held, the judges who interpret their laws. Congress gets a say in counting the votes and if there is no Electoral College winner.
Any involvement of the people in the decision at all arises, not from the Constitution, but solely from the state, state legislatures making state law and state judges interpreting it.
Thus any agument to prefer the people over the state and judges, any attempt to put a thumb on the scale in favor of the people, is an utterly anti-originalist argument. A person who makes such a claim has no business claiming to be an originalist.