The Volokh Conspiracy
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University Administrators Behaving Badly
A bit lost in the controversy over antisemitic speech on campus is the failure of university administrators to enforce existing rules that are content-neutral.
I have already written about my own university's failure to enforce Virginia's law banning masked demonstrations. That failure continues, despite a letter from the state attorney general reminding universities of their obligation to enforce the law, and despite an incident in which a student waving a pro-Israel Israel flag was attacked by masked demonstrators. My understanding is that other universities in Virginia are also refusing to enforce the law. I have an email from one university police department official explaining that the law was intended to be enforced only if another crime has been committed. This is nonsense. The law is meant to prevent intimidation by hateful mobs, and to help police identify suspects if laws are broken. I understand that one would not want to suddenly enforce the law and arrest masked students on felony charges, but I don't see any problem with enforcing the law after providing due warnings.
Meanwhile, at Cornell anti-Israel groups have been disrupting indoor spaces with extremely loud chanting of "from the river to the sea" and so forth. When students and their parents complained to the school, the response they received from the dean's office is that the university would not intervene unless the protests were "too" disruptive. When pressed, 20-30 minutes of disruption was deemed not "too" disruptive. But it gets worse. According to the Cornell Sun, a university official admitted that the administration has been cooperating with the disruptions, including the students' "occupying" a campus building as he made the statement!
During the meeting, Lombardi also stressed the administration's cooperation and commitment to free expression and student protests. He emphasized that the administration has cooperated with students and demonstrators with respect to the events planned for the week by CML.
"You've had a lot of activities [and] demonstrations, and the staff that's been here has been very committed to helping you be able to do that and express yourself during your demonstrations throughout the week," Lombardi said. "So we remain very committed to that, including today."
UC Berkeley has an "all-comers" policy, ie, student organizations must be open to everyone with no discrimination. Nevertheless, as revealed in a recent lawsuit filed against the university, twenty-three student organizations have adopted policies that discriminate against "Zionists" in various ways. Dean Erwin Chemerinsky has determined that putting aside any civil rights considerations, these policies violate the university's all-comers policy. Starting next semester, he has told students, work for any of these organizations will not be eligible for course credit. However, the organizations apparently remain free to use the Berkeley Law School name, office space, funding, and faculty advisors. Dean Chemerinsky seems to think this is required by the First Amendment. For my part, I don't see how student organizations have a First Amendment right to violate content-neutral university policy, nor why that any such right would apply differently to course credit as opposed to other privileges.
A lawsuit filed against New York University provides several examples of university officials declining to enforce the university's own regulations against anti-Israel protestors and activists.
Anti-Israel students at MIT blocked entrance to a university building while classes were being held, obviously contrary to university rules. The university declined to suspend them because of "serious concerns about collateral consequences for the students, such as visa issues."
These are just a few of the examples I have come across since October 7 of universities declining to enforce their own content-neutral rules. Such actions leave the universities vulnerable to civil rights complaints, given that failure to enforce these rules (a) can contribute to a hostile environment for Jewish students, as their pleas for the university to enforce the rules are ignored; (b) may permit discrimination against Jewish students (as at Berkeley) contrary to school rules; and (c) may constitute discrimination by demonstrating selective indifference to the concerns of Jewish students, if the rules get enforced in other contexts.
But legalities aside, many people are calling for universities to crack down on "hate speech." Instead, critics should demand that universities enforce existing content-neutral rules--and that they certainly should not, as at Cornell, be actively collaborating with student groups in breaking those rules.
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Oh, great, another one of these posts.
No, it redirects the discussion where it ought to go - not "have universities violated free speech enough," but "universities should enforce their own non-speech-related rules."
Caveat: I think a student group might have valid reasons not to accept "all comers." Eg, a Jewish students' association usually wouldn't want Palestinian activists, Messianic Jews, etc.
I generally agree that the "all comers" policy is bad policy. Just like freedom of speech includes the right to say obnoxious things, freedom of association includes the right to self-sort.
True freedom is ugly, chaotic and messy. The best you can say for it is that it's better than all the alternatives.
But as you and the author above imply, the right answer to a bad policy is to change it, not to selectively enforce it.
David's table-pounding on this point is transparently devoid of context. Do universities enforce their content-neutral policies against any form of disruptive protest, and hold their punches when it comes to anti-Israel protests? It's unclear. Anyway, for David, it's beside the point. He's calling for selective and content-based enforcement, through the revivification of ostensibly content-neutral policies that people may not have been enforcing otherwise.
He also doesn't bother to consider whether disciplinary action and criminal enforcement of content-neutral policies, aimed at dispersing and shutting down campus protests, is unlikely to, uh, work. Jail kids at pro-Palestinian protests for wearing face coverings, and see what they come up with next.
In short, David is calling for a "content-neutral" crackdown in the same way that the Israeli government is enforcing its own "content-neutral" laws against pro-Palestine and anti-war protests within that country. It's the same, heavy-handed, punitive approach to censorship that arguably could pass constitutional muster. That's what he wants, that's what many commenters here would want.
He's not upset that disruptive protests are happening. He's upset that the disruptive protests of his political opponents are happening.
"David’s table-pounding"
Look who is talking, Simon.
What is the point of having rules that you don't enforce or enforce selectively?
What you call heavy-handed is just you defending people who hold your position.
When rules are enforced, they have been enforce in a non-neutral way.
Your pounding on the table, stamping your feet, etc. don't cut the mustard.
It seems I've broken you, Nicky, doll.
.
This blog publishes racial slurs frequently and regularly tolerates racist, misogynistic, Islamophobic, xenophobic, and homophobic slurs. A liberal, on the other hand, is censored for using terms such as "p-ssy" and "sl_ck-jaw_d>."
Right-wing commenters frequently call for liberals to be exterminated, gassed, shot in the face, placed face-down in landfills, sent to Zyklon showers, pushed through woodchippers, etc., and Prof. Volokh not only lets those comments stand but indeed cultivates those assholes as a target audience. Artie Ray was banished for making fun of conservatives.
The Volokh Conspirators and their downscale, bigoted fans complaining about viewpoint-discriminatory censorship demonstrates a remarkable lack of self-awareness and principle.
Carry on, disingenuous clingers.
Look, prick, if you'd spent 10 minutes as a conservative you'd understand how they stomp on the right while appeasing the left.
"My claims are completely subjective and cannot be demonstrated through objective means."
Said the Mississippi voting registrars, circa 1960.
“ He’s not upset that disruptive protests are happening. He’s upset that the disruptive protests of his political opponents are happening.”
Yes, I said that, and it's true, based on David's objectively observable posts on the topic. As I have noted, none of his argument has anything to do with an even-handed concern that laws regarding face coverings or rules regarding disruptive protests on campus, because he does not (perhaps cannot) provide any context on how they are actually applied outside the context of anti-Israel protests. His only point is that they should be applied to anti-Israel protests. In a, ahem, "content-neutral" way.
Nothing about my argument requires one to be a liberal or conservative, pro- or anti-Israel, to evaluate them, or find them persuasive (or not).
If Prof. Bernstein genuinely objected to bigotry, he would have disassociated from a white, male, bigot-hugging conservative blog long ago. How many racial slurs would it have taken to cause a decent person to leave? How many trans rest room-drag queen-Muslim-white grievance-lesbian-trans parenting-Black crime-trans sorority drama would it take to cause a genuinely inclusive person to recognize this blog's bigot-flattering ways?
This is just polemical, partisan posturing.
If Kirkland genuinely objected to bigotry, he would stop being bigoted.
Why so crabby, Mr. Nieporent?
We're both libertarians and, apparently, we both are bigots.
Do you deny that is blog attracts, flatters, supports, and appeases bigots (especially superstitious, right-wing bigots)?
If Kirkland stopped being bigoted he'd have nothing whatsoever to say.
If you didn't love bigots -- right-wing racists, Republican xenophobes, conservative misogynists, Federalist Society gay-haters, etc. -- you wouldn't be at The Volokh Conspiracy: Official Legal Blog of Vile Racial Slurs.
Oh great, Simon, another one of your complaints. I though you have been clamoring for freedom of speech.
Nicky, doll, I eagerly await your saying anything that even mildly amuses or challenges me.
Hey, jerk, you don't know me well enough to use those terms. I don't want you to speak with a modicum of sense, not the same pro-Hamas bullshit
Whatever you say, darling.
Look how the mighty has fallen.
Don 'I'm better than you' Nico slinging mud like he was born for it.
You know, if you don't like articles that disagree with your political priors and biases, you are free to skip them. There's nothing that requires you to read every article at the VC - and certainly nothing that compels you to comment on them.
Nah, I like shooting fish in barrels. Y'all just line up for me. It's convenient.
At least your know your mental deficiency. Bravo for tell the truth on that point.
Let us know when you start.
Oh, great, another one of these posts. doesn't seem like much of an argument.
Don't worry, I'm working on the dissertation. My initial comment was just to flag that it's coming.
I love seeing lefties squirm over this stuff. Keep it up professor.
Squirming? No, just tired of it. Eugene, Josh, and now David all need to have an opinion about it. None of them are saying anything interesting or new.
It appears the Volokh Conspiracy -- after years of strenuously working to establish safe spaces for various forms of bigotry; publishing racial slurs at a remarkably (and tellingly) brisk pace; engaging in viewpoint-driven discrimination that flatters multifaceted bigotry; and cultivating a target audience of Republican racists, conservative immigrant-haters, superstitious gay-bashers, obsolete misogynists, right-wing Islamophobes, half-educated transphobes, etc. -- has finally found a form of intolerance (1) it believes exists and (2) to which it objects!
Also, it appears Prof. Bernstein has identified a classification that he not only tolerates but enthusiastically supports!
Some will contend this is unprincipled partisanship -- disaffected conservatives clinging desperately to a chance to play some offense with respect to bigotry -- rather than an authentic change of heart or principled objection to old-timey intolerance. Others don't know what they are talking about, or are disingenuous and partisan hacks on the wrong side of history.
Local refusal to enforce laws in a non-discriminatory manner was the motivation for the EP clause of the 14th amendment. What we're talking about here is about as clear a violation of EP as it gets.
So who enforces the 14th in this context?
42 U.S. Code § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights
"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia."
This law is as applicable to failure to act, as it is to affirmative actions.
Has Section 1983 EVER been successfully used for EP against a university - public or private?
Of Colleges and Kings: Academic Defendants Under 42 U.S.C. §
It's got a pretty exhaustive list of cases. A failure of the university to enforce non-academic law would seem to be a poor candidate for the sort of special privileges the courts have been giving universities under this law.
You'd have to have some evidence of disparate treatment first. Which, as Simon notes, is sorely lacking.
This is just David wanting to punish and censor people who think Israel is behaving badly. As usual. It's been going on for like 15 years at least, since I first came to VC. It has nothing to do with consistency of enforcement. He has no reason to believe that the rule against masks has ever been enforced, for example (and good reasons to believe that it hasn't).
The problem is that there are three sets of rules -- a draconian set for those on the right, a neutral set for those in the middle and no rules whatsoever for the politically favored leftists.
Case in point UMass Amherst. They expel three girls for attending an off-campus St. Patrick's party yet permit people to block off admin buildings and now cafeterias. They even changed the rules to no longer list names of arrested students so as not to harm their careers.
.
Not at the Volokh Conspiracy.
Here, conservatives are free (if not encouraged) to launch racial slurs, homophobic slurs, calls for liberals to be pushed through woodchippers or gassed, xenophobic comments, homophobic slurs, calls for liberals to be exterminated or raped, transphobic slurs, calls for liberals to be shot in the face or placed face-down in landfills, Islamophobic comments, calls for liberals to be sent to Zyklon showers, misogynistic comments, etc.
Liberals, to the contrary, have been censored for using terms such as "p_ssy," "c_p succ_r," and "sl_ck-jaw_d," and banished for poking fun at conservatives. The censor not only acknowledge this -- he boasted about it and said he would do it again.
Disaffected, bigot-hugging, obsolete, conservative hypocrites are among my favorite culture war casualties . . . but not, apparently, entirely welcome on strong, liberal-libertarian, mainstream faculties.
This controversy will only end with even more speech restrictions on campus and more DEI.
I never understood why we allow colleges, churches, schools, or any entity other than the police enforce the laws.
Priests who abuse kids should be reported to the police, not the church.
If someone sees students violating the law, call 911, not the university.
While I generally agree that we should be removing real crimes from the kangaroo courts run by schools, shouting down a speaker during a lecture is not a violation of the law. It could be a violation of university policy, however - and that would be the university's issue to police.
Occupying a building might be a violation of the law but the only entity with standing to press charges is the owner of the building - the university. Being blocked from attending classes might be a breach of contract but that would be the contract between the blocked student and the school - no standing for the student to press any charges against the blockers.
Shouting down a speaker is either a violation of the law - e.g. trespass in combination with the T&Cs for attending the lecture - or it isn't. Either way, the solution is to enforce the law using the normal means for doing so.
"Being blocked from attending classes might be a breach of contract but that would be the contract between the blocked student and the school"
I think you had a point, up until this. Being blocked by the school itself from attending classes would be a breach of contract. Being blocked from attending classes by a fellow student, OTOH? There's no contractual relationship there to breach, it's a perfectly ordinary crime, the details of which would depend on how the blocking was accomplished. Assault or false imprisonment, for instance.
Assault would certainly be a crime - but I haven't seen that alleged in most of the cases above. Those seemed to be mere blocking of access - a picket line that you can't cross.
False imprisonment also doesn't seem to line up to the allegations. I'm not "imprisoned" if I can walk away. Blocking me from going into my preferred grocery store is rude (and probably counterproductive) but not imprisonment, false or otherwise.
Maybe you could allege threat of assault based on why you thought you couldn't cross the picket line but now we're getting into pretty subjective areas that would be very hard to prosecute. I'm still not seeing an actual crime for which the blocked student is a victim who can press charges.
There was that case where Hamas sympathetic protesters trapped some Jews in a library...
For the picket line it would be "pedestrian interference". Typically a misdemeanor.
They weren't trapped.
My state has a general disorderly conduct statute. Seems like it could fit some of the actions described. Its the lowest level misdemeanor so not super serious (i.e, no prison is possible typically just a fine) but it would be enough to detain people and remove them.
Most states have something similar.
In Massachusetts, shouting down a speaker IS a crime. 272 MGL 40
Whoever willfully interrupts or disturbs an assembly of people meeting for a lawful purpose shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 1 month or by a fine of not more than $50; provided, however, that an elementary or secondary student shall not be adjudged a delinquent child for an alleged violation of this section for such conduct within school buildings or on school grounds or in the course of school-related events.
"standing to press charges"
Sorry, what? That isn't a thing. "Pressing charges" isn't a legal term. It's an informal term used by cops. It does not in any way interact with standing doctrine. You watch too much television.
No, I'm just casual in my terms in a forum populated by both lawyers and non-lawyers. Feel free to correct my terminology, however. But actually correct it instead of just whining. How would you concisely describe "those who are allowed under the law to allege harms and request the filing of a criminal complaint"?
At my university, campus police *are* the county police, county police will only come to campus if university police request backup.
That seems like a terrible idea.
Seems a conflict of interest there, are they serving the University and it's image or the populace and through that the students impacted.
Abusive clergy can be reported to both secular and sectarian authorities. And some places reserve calls to 911 for emergencies that threaten life or limb -- calling them over property violence might result in a citation for misuse of the emergency system.
More generally, we've never had a general ban on private parties enforcing the law. We didn't have police in the modern sense until Boston started a full-time force in 1838. Would you prohibit unarmed store guards from stopping shoplifters? Would you prohibit off-duty police officers from acting as bouncers or performing similar guard duties? My alma mater -- like many other universities -- has its own accredited police department pursuant to state law; this allows the university to provide a higher level of police services than the surrounding city does. As long as the public police will still respond equally to calls, what is wrong with having trained, licensed, accountable private police as supplements?
" And some places reserve calls to 911 for emergencies that threaten life or limb — calling them over property violence might result in a citation for misuse of the emergency system."
Could you provide an example?
That would mean that, for example, calling 911 to say 'My neighbors are on vacation and I see a guy climbing out their window with a TV' would result in a citation. I'm having a hard time imagining any jurisdiction doing that.
He's just being a Redditor, repeating Reddit memes.
Being occasionally wrong is much better than being Drewski and posting 100% asshole memes.
The problem is that 911 and the police ARE the university at almost all public universities.
At UMass, the Police Chief "serves at the pleasure of" the Chancellor and can be summarily fired without cause. (A former chief told me this -- and I suspect it is true in most cases elsewhere as well.)
If the university police are actual police rather than just campus security, that reporting relationship is explicitly forbidden in every jurisdiction I know of. Our corporate police (yes, it's available to certain financial institutions in addition to universities) is chartered by the state and the Police Chief can be fired by the company only for cause (and the threshold is pretty high). He can, however, be fired without cause by the county Sheriff (who he technically reports to).
Most police departments for public universities ARE sworn police departments and still remain direct reportees to the President, sometimes with a physical facilities VP as an intermediary.
I have seen how they can be used to sweep problems under the carpet. A friend who was a campus officer responded to a call about a male campus VP found passed out drunk in the stairwell of a women's dorm. He was instructed to have him transported to a local ER but not to cite him or file a report. I was personally SWAT'ed by my department chair to get campus police to search my office during student office hours. They acknowledged that is was an apparent false report after nothing was found and I pointed out I had a grievance filed against him, but no action was taken when I filed a counter complaint over his false statements (the chair was also a prominent former chair of the faculty Senate). Public intoxication of athletic boosters on game days is another issue often ignored. When I was on a student campus traffic court as an undergrad, we were quietly advised by disgruntled campus officers of a situation where they were told to go through a campus parking garage immediately behind maintenance personnel who were changing the permit levels on spaces and ticket those who had been legally parked just moments before the change.
Is David just now figuring this out? This has been going on since the 70's. I've mentioned an incident in 2017 where the Campus Police were there to PROTECT THE PROTESTERS. The majority of these protesters were NOT students. The same thing happens in BLUE cities. The Police are there to protect the protesters not the public. California has this down to an art form. They have to allow Conservative protests, so the Local or State Government lets their favored groups know when and where. Once the protest starts, "counter protesters" show up and incite violence. That allows the Government to "cancel" the permit of the Conservative protesters and use the Police to make them disperse. If the Conservatives protest without a permit, they are made to disperse under the threat of arrest. Not so the other side.
That's what happened in Charlottesville; The local government refused to extend a parade permit to Unite the Right, so they went to court and got an order forcing them to permit the protest. Whether the local government actually invited the counter-protesters or they showed up entirely on their own is unclear, but the government then had the police channel them together, instead of keeping them separate, so that the resulting violence could be used as a pretext to cancel the permit.
And yet idiot leftists on the left still blame the people that followed the law over the people that were there explicitly to deny others the exercise of legal rights. Anything to keep from recognizing that yes, they are the baddies.
1) a conflict about the enforcement of a law in VA, that it is unclear has been enforced otherwise in the recent past.
2) a demand for Cornell to be less free in it's free speech policy. No demonstration of a double standard.
3) An interpretation of Berekely' regs by prof Bernstein that he believes Berkely isn't following.
4) Similar demands for restrictions on speech at MIT and NYU without establishing that has been the practice otherwise.
So just Prof. Bernstein demanding stuff based on a speech standard that seems somewhat at odds with previous demands the right has made about campus speech.
If you're going to dodge a specific vision for what you want policy to be, and instead go for complaining about a double standard *establish a double standard*.
I'm sure there is something of a double standard, humans being humans, but so far the right's too busy with the attacking and not bothering with the proving. To be fair, this is sounding more and more like just a red meat attempt to go after schools like worked in 2020.
So what I'm seeing on this so far is conservatives flipping on a dime and complaining that campuses are too permissive to speech.
I tend to agree with this take, or would if I thought it was being offered as an attempt at good faith standard-setting.
(1) if you think the law wouldn't be enforced against a racist KKK masked rally.... indeed, at least one university official has conceded as much, albeit not publicly.
(2) disrupting other people is not free speech, disrupting university activities is, unsurprisingly, banned by Cornell's student code of conduct. https://scl.cornell.edu/sites/scl/files/documents/Cornell%20Student%20Code%20of%20Conduct%20Approved%20by%20the%20Board%2012.10.20%20Final.pdf
(3) I cited the dean enforcing the regulation, but only partially, based on a dubious First Amendment theory. If you want to explain why an all-comers policy can be applied to getting course credit, but not to getting school funding or offfice space because of the First Amendment, please do.
(4) (a) at NYU, as noted, the brief provides examples of the double-standard in enforcement. So you can read the brief. (b) MIT itself said it would have suspended the students under its regs but for visa concerns, so this isn't my allegation, it's MIT's own positin.
But thanks for playing.
1) Hypothetical double standards are always overdetermined. If you're reaching for those, it's a sign of lack of actual evidence for your thesis.
2) I agree with you, but I'm not sure it's a slam dunk enough that we can assume schools disagreeing with you and I have a double standard. That is thanks to the work on free speech on campus and anti-heckler's veto work the right's been putting in for a decade now.
3) I have no idea about Berkeley's internal policies and how they should be interpreted. You and I are both outsiders on that front.
4) 'examples of university officials declining to enforce the university's own regulations against anti-Israel protestors and activists' is not a double standard unless you establish the regulations being enforced in a similar situation against other protesters. So, too MIT.
These aren't double standards, they're just standards you think are not being followed. Which is a fine issue to take up, but is more of an opinion and could look like another partsian attack. A lot stronger of a push would be actually establishing uneven application.
If you read the beginning of the post carefully, the post is about “failure of university administrators to enforce existing rules that are content-neutral,” not necessarily double-standards. The ones that amount to double standards, as at NYU, are potentially evidence for a Title VI lawsuit on that basis. In other instances, rules may not have been enforced because no one complained. If someone does complain, and the universities refuse to enforce their own rules, they should be able to explain why the rule-breakers get preference over the students complaining, when it's the former who are disrupting the latter.
Fair enough; I had read in a complaint about the enforcement being not neutral, and that isn't your thesis. Sorry for that misread.
But then you're just wanting more enforcement of speech and conduct codes than there is.
Which, I hope you will allow, is quite a switch.
If someone does complain, and the universities refuse to enforce their own rules, they should be able to explain why the rule-breakers get preference over the students complaining, when it’s the former who are disrupting the latter.
And this is like a dream policy for the anti-white DEI strawmen I keep hearing about, but it's real and it's coming from you.
Saying that students should not be allowed to disrupt other students going to class, studying, or even just hanging out in the dining hall is properly seen as prohibiting content-neutral conduct, not an issue of speech at all. Yes, universities should enforce (reasonable) conduct rules, why have them otherwise?
I'll tell you what -- why don't you and your fifteen closest friends hop across the Potomac, put on your Klan robes and masks, and parade around the JCC with signs saying Hamas is right? Let's see whether Virginia's anti-mask law gets enforced then.
Your argument is simply that the most extreme criminals can be let off the hook because there's no evidence that letting them off the hook is a double standard.
Yelling that things that don't happen aren't being hypothetically punished is about the speed for most folks on the right these days.
Being the worst offenders around and expecting that to be a reason to escape justice is about the speed for leftist activists these days.
How grand - escaping justice!
Who is escaping justice? These people who wore masks to a protest?
I think we should sharply distinguish between simply demonstrating and actively blocking students.
Some of the things Professor Bernstein is complaining about may be in the former category. Perhaps some Jewish students are being hairtrigger thinskinned and counting any demonstration they can hear and whose contents they don’t like as an obstruction. But courts can distinguish between intentional efforts to prevent them from participating in the educational process and the incidental annoyances of a noisy demonstration not directed specifically at them.
For the mere sake of clarity, I'm happy with your suggestion. I just want bright lines.
Yours are good, though I'd actually go a bit further myself - I actually think there is a legit point about harassment and a hostile school/work environment.
But no one seems interested in drawing the lines, just yelling that the lines are too context dependent and unclear right now.
1) Your ignorance of the law's enforcement is no excuse. It has been enforced recently. https://www.wric.com/news/crime/prosecutors-drop-mask-wearing-charge-filed-after-gun-rally/
As usual, you are too busy denialing to check the facts.
Did you... read what you linked?
The example you've cited (1) occurred three years ago, (2) appears to have been an isolated instance, (3) was dropped due to the inability to demonstrate the necessary criminal intent behind the mask-wearing law and (4) was challenged as likely selective, content-based enforcement.
The example you've cited, in other words, is absolutely consistent with what I and others have said about what David is advocating - it's an example of selective, content-driven enforcement of putatively "content-neutral" laws, to try to stifle protest.
"Similar demands for restrictions on speech at MIT and NYU"
Yes, because blocking Jewish students from attending class (MIT), or slipping "eviction notices" under Jewish students' dorm-room doors (NYU) are speech.
You are turning into a bad caricature of yourself. These are clear examples of harassment, if not illegality, that the universities turned a blind eye to.
The only thing slipping is Sarcstr0's mask. It is all about excusing his Fellow Travellers.
Nothing more exciting than watching a bunch of disaffected conservative bigots lather themselves when they perceive a chance to play offense with respect to bigotry (genuine or illusory) for once.
Carry on, bigoted clingers. So far as better Americans permit. And so long as right-wingers remain relevant in the beautiful, modern American culture war.
The eviction notices are speech.
Not all speech is protected, and you are turning into a bad parody of someone whose partisanship makes them forget baseline legal principles.
I ask you the same thing I asked you yesterday - what kind of policy are you even advocating for? You make a lot of dire claims. But to what end?
Slipping a threatening notice under a door is not speech. The content of it is speech, and as you point out, threats like "If you do not vacate the premise by midnight on 25 April, 2014, we reserve the right to destroy all remaining belongings. Charges for demolition will be applied to your student accounts." are not protected even if the SJP clowns were too stupid to fix the date.
Not all speech is protected speech.
What is the exception this would fall under?
Schools have additional powers to police speech on campus, powers they have been trying to use to create a more inclusive atmosphere, which folks like you push back on as snowflake.
I agree with your newfound position that schools should start to exercise that authority in a more active and transparent fashion! Glad you came around.
What exception does harassment fall under?
That's actually a pretty good question.
There is no harassment exception to the First Amendment. I'm not super up on the contours of what you can regulate on that front. Part of it is 1A being in tension with EPC; part of it is about individual speech versus a pattern.
You keep slipping into legalisms, as though we are dealing with state actors. Targetting Jewish students by slipping eviction notices under their doors is not protected speech, and its harassment. NYU yawned at it.
Notably, you ignore the blocking of Jewish students at MIT. Again, met with a yawn by the university administration.
The policy I am advocating for is even, unbiased application of neutral principles, regardless of ideology. That is not happening today on campuses. If you want to apply the near-absolutist principles of the First Amendment, fine. You want some other standard, fine.
That means that "Gas the Jews" is treated the same as "Deport All Blacks to Africa" or even "There are only 2 genders."
The definition of speech is not a legalism.
I did not ignore the MIT incident; I'm just not debating it because we agree. That seems an easy one handled by existing heckler's veto type discussions. MIT is in the wrong, and hopefully correct themselves.
The policy I am advocating for is even, unbiased application of neutral principles, regardless of ideology.
What principles though? You seem extraordinarily resistence to nailing down what principles.
Seems to me like you just want to yell at schools.
Whatever principles the schools want to adopt. If, as Harvard, MIT and Penn all testified they want to adopt the maximum protection of speech, a la the First Amendment, then they should do so in a neutral manner.
If they want to adopt some orthodox view on certain or all matters, then do so.
Just announce in advance what your position it, and stick to it.
Just don't claim to be for "free speech" and "open inquiry," and then act as though certain views or positions are taboo.
I was hoping for more.
You have not established this double standard. All you point out is stuff you think *should* be addressed. But nothing on the other side of the ledger where it was addressed. Just counterfactual hypotheticals.
We're back to square one. If your issue is as simple as consistent application *establish inconsistent application* don't just point out applications you think are incorrect and assume things'd be otherwise.
Why aren’t students who are disrupting Jewish students because of their race getting sued under the Ku Klux Klan Act? And why aren’t university administrations and faculty and administrators who help them getting included in these lawsuits?
Why isn’t there a pool of pro bono lawyers being formed seeking plaintiffs to initiate such suits (and incidentally ask for attornies fees)?
I’ve defended the right of demonstrators to chant what they want. But as was the case in the 1950s, there is a big difference between merely demonstrating and actively blocking the schoolhouse door. Once people start doing the latter to students, it’s no different from the demonstrations Governor Wallace conducted in front of a schoolhouses to protest the injuries inflicted on Southerners from Reconstruction on.
And it shouldn’t be treated any differently.
There are laws in place providing for private rights of action. Why not enforce them?
It’s not like university administrations have turned a blind eye to things like this before. Some of the early desegregation students got the shit beat out of them after the National Guard went away and nobody was looking. I don’t think we have to wait for that to happen to act.
That makes good sense. Why not enforce them? The only "reason" that folks like Simon offer is that enforcement is "heavy handed."
MIT tried to be kind for the interim to avoid revocation of visas, but the disregard of university rules has continued. The disciplinary committee that was to deal with the students that refused to disperse has not acted. Consequently the president's job is endangered. It is time for universities to enforce their rights of private action
Kornbluth did not exactly distinguish herself last week before Congress. MIT seems to be handling this differently than UPenn and Harvard, meaning the tone and tenor of their dialogue. I'm curious how it will turn out.
I do think revocation of student visas needs to be explicitly put on the table for actions (not speech) that harass/threaten.
"MIT tried to be kind for the interim to avoid revocation of visas, but the disregard of university rules has continued."
As every parent of children knows, when you reward bad behavior, you get more bad behavior.
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That explains the Volokh Conspiracy's spiral into a disgusting clustermuck of racism (racial slurs, especially, are a favorite of the proprietor), superstitious gay-bashing, white nationalism, hatred of immigrants, misogyny, transphobia (another favorite of the proprietor), Islamophobia, white nationalism, graphic calls for violence against liberals, right-wing censorship, etc.
Ironically, for a foreign student to participate in advocacy for a Palestinian radical group is itself enough grounds under US statutory immigration law for deportation, whether the individual is an enrolled student or not. Whether the school takes disciplinary action or not should be irrelevant to their immigration status in this case. It is a sign of the complete breakdown of DoJ and DHS that no action is being taken for their deportation.
Also, why aren’t Jewish students demonstrating by the offices of these “not sufficiently disruptive” administrators and loudly demanding protection? Why don’t they conduct demonstrations of the same length and noise level and actually test whether these administrators are really applying the same standards?
In one instance, the answer is that they are more comforted by organizing regular support sessions on campus. I don't knw of any cases in which those have been disrupted.
I remember the good ol' days when the Left thought showing a picture of Muhammad, making a joke about trans people, or saying women shouldn't serve in combat was enough to get someone blacklisted for life. Now--for now, at least--they are hardcore free-speech warriors for the right to *checks notes* target and intimidate the Jews--and doing so just a short while after praising and defending the antics of so-called anti-fascists, i.e., Antifa. Classic Left.
Cue the usual antisemites saying it's not at all about the Jews but just Israel.
Whining, disaffected, worthless, bigoted conservative losers are among my favorite culture war casualties.
I don't see anyone defending the right to target and intimidate Jews.
...waiting for the usual suspects in this group to start railing about the "woke right."
There is certainly a double standard on these issues. Probably more than one. I'm looking forward to thoughtful academic posts that engage with what the rules of the road in academia should be--for both sides of the aisle. No advocating violence at all? No language that hurts others' feelings? All speech that is legal is okay? Must colleges condemn certain types of speech but let it occur anyway?
But just lamenting that the universities haven't been adequately "consistent" does little to advance the discussion, in my view. It's an attempt at point-scoring against perceived enemies on the left, without an integrated position of its own.
But just lamenting that the universities haven’t been adequately “consistent” does little to advance the discussion, in my view.
Who made you the arbiter of what "the discussion" is? A significant part of the discussion is about discriminatory implementation of disingenuous policies on the part of college administrations, which has very real impacts on students (and society in general).
I think you're missing the point. There already have been "thoughtful academic posts" on free-speech in academia - many of them. And many of them right here over the years. Look for all the articles for and (in my opinion, more compellingly) against the idea of micro-aggressions, trigger warnings, censorship, etc.
Those articles were near-universally dismissed as "right-wing whinging" until this latest crisis exposed the hypocrisy of those who were doing the dismissing. They are now being called out on consistency because that failure of consistency undermines the entire alleged premise of the pro-censorship position - that "feelings" and "harms" outweigh basic freedoms.
So, apparently it's OK for these universities to ignore violations of their own rules...because they'd allegedly allow equal rule-breaking privileges to anyone, not just "anti-Zionists."
Implementation of rules is often not the same as the black-letter rules. Generally more flexible than rules as written.
This is baseline institutional practice. It shows up in little meetup groups and in large government organizations.
Note that some flexibility is not the same as not enforcing the rules at all. But I would note the sudden calls for schools to clamp down on their speech and conduct policies is a bit rich coming from the supposed free speech absolutist folks around here.
Many of these rules wouldn't raise free-expression concerns at all...unless of course they're unevenly applied.
There's a couple of ways to make sure the rules are applied evenly...one would be to allow the rules to be violated by anyone. The other would be to enforce the rules against everyone.
The piece of this that stands out to me is MIT apparently admitting that it isn't enforcing normal punishments against violators of school policies for fear of screwing up the violators' visa status. The point of attaching negative consequences to violations of law/policy is deterrence. How does the institution expect to be taken seriously if it tinkers with penalties post hoc and engages in favoritism toward those studying on visas?
If I was studying overseas on a visa, I would feel obliged to be more careful about violating local laws and institutional policies, not less. If these protesters lack the self-control to express themselves without blocking access to buildings and harassing and intimidating fellow students, they ought to be sent home. Seems unlikely the institution will suffer for their absence.
It's all about the money. Those students who enroll on a student visa almost always pay full freight. Losing that revenue stream -- especially from other students from the same communities -- is the harm that the universities see in the students' absence.
MIT has a pretty big endowment, I would imagine. They should be able to barely squeak by if a few foreign students paying full freight get expelled. Plenty more to replace them.
That's not how university administrators think. Losing money is a big negative to them, which is not ameliorated by a big endowment.
"MIT has a pretty big endowment." That is true.
I don't think that MIT's decision was based on finances
Avoiding having your students deported doesn't seem like favoritism to me; it seems like addressing a particular burden unique to a particular cohort.
That's why rules include enforcement discretion.
Maybe write down how to handle such cases, but don't pretend justice being blind in such a case would be fair.
Schools are not favoring their international students for money purposes. Tuition subsidies are not coming out of a school's bottom line.
Quit with this nationalist paranoid nonsense; it damages our research enterprise.
Why would blind justice be unfair in such a case? Did somebody forget to tell those students that they are supposed to follow the university's rules for being at least halfway civil to the faculty, staff, and other students? A student visa is for them to study here, and if they get themselves expelled from their school, they have no other right to stay in the country.
Quit with your rabid apologia for violence; it threatens the safety of minority students.
Allowing different punishments for the same act out of some misguided formalism is neither fair nor good policy.
A student visa is for them to study here, and if they get themselves expelled from their school, they have no other right to stay in the country.
Except for the part where they are people. Did you know people from other coutries are people?
Sounds like they should follow the rules.
The visa issues are not the school's concern. If they are not going to enforce the provisions, remove them completely.
The school is applying the same punishment: expulsion. The consequences of a particular punishment may vary, but that is true of any punishment.
Being a person does not grant a right to say in the US. People who are not citizens or nationals have no inherent right to stay in the US; it is always conditional on other factors. Staying enrolled is one of the conditions for a student visa. Terrorizing other students and getting expelled seems like a good basis for sending the offender home.
The consequences of a particular punishment may vary, but that is true of any punishment.
Foreseeably materially different consequences from the same punishment mean *it's not the same punishment*.
S-O loves to continue with the his same excuses for people who break rules that he doesn't like.
Again, no engagement just insults. I made the argument because I think it is a good policy.
I did not do it because I like international students.
what would that even mean? They're a huge group and plenty are good and plenty suck.
Quit with this empty sniping and control yourself like an adult.
Actually, many of the students involved in the SJP protests should, under US law, have never been admitted to the country in the first place. US law specifically excludes those who have been advocates for groups like the PLO, PIJ, PFLP, Hamas, etc. The fact of their participation in these demonstrations in favor of Hamas is prima facie grounds for deportation, disciplinary action or not.
Policing speech via immigration law - what an American concept!
I'm glad that's not how we implement that.
Suppose Alice is on probation, while Bob isn't. Alice and Bob commit the same crime. It's OK to prosecute Bob, but not Alice, because if Alice's probation officer hears what she has been doing it's back to jail for her?
I don't know that having a more lenient standard for students studying on visas can accurately be characterized as removing a burden. The terms are known to such students and accepted by them. Is it really so burdensome to hold them to the deal they accepted?
And even if it is a burden, it is one chosen by the government - a legislative choice. If we don't agree with that choice, we ought to pursue immigration law reform. We ought not to tolerate unelected university administrators overriding that legislative choice by refusing to suspend students who deserve suspension.
Finally, I doubt the otherwise justifiable suspension of students on visas is a threat to our "research enterprise." Maybe that suspension deters future mobs from preventing students going to class, which would seem to be a net plus for our research enterprise. And maybe the replacement of a violator of school policy with another student (maybe even another student on a visa) who is more respectful of the institution and fellow students will result in an atmosphere more conducive to academic inquiry. Enforcing law and policy without special preferences for visa-holders does not seem like much of a threat to scientific progress.
Very well put.
I take your point about distribution of responsibility, but schools are not here acting as a governmental department. If they, as part of their institutional policy, want to take into account the foreseeable impact of their actions, they are themselves free to do so.
It should be transparent, but I rather like taking consequences into account and not being purely formalistic.
My thing about the research enterprise was less this particular policy and more the 'It’s all about the money' broad hostility to foreign students.
Maybe I'm oversensitive, but I see a lot of this empty nationalism when I talk to foreign grad students and profs with foreign grad students.
You are exactly correct. Shortly before I left the faculty at Purdue, the admissions office explicitly told us that the school was expanding foreign admissions with a goal of having a minimum of 15% of the student body from out of the US specifically BECAUSE those students paid full tuition, whether directly or through grants from organizations like USAID.
You do realize that American students get funded by grants as well?
The international talent pool is much greater than the US-only talent pool. You become hostile to the global commons of talent at your nation's peril.
Whether we should admit foreign students was not the question, dude. No new goalposts.
Imagine applying the same logic in a different context. This is how you sound:
There is a built in double standard as to the consequences for the same adjudicative finding.
That's something worth recognizing.
Universities never enforce their own policies when they are inconvenient. From the inside, I have seen a university refuse to grant tenure to a candidate who exceeded every one of the criteria the department had adopted for granting tenure, one cover up misconduct by a male senior administrator found passed out drunk in the stairwell of a women's dorm, a Provost try to punish a faculty member who blew the whistle on research fraud by another prominent colleague instead of dealing with the actual misconduct, search committees allowed to discriminate on the basis of race where the discrimination was against non-black candidates, widespread willful violation of NCAA rules regarding maximum time requirements for athletes- with the full knowledge of the NCAA, routine violation of hiring policies in order to provide employment for coach's spouses, use of public funds to support political campaign events, use of a supposed "research foundation" to bypass legal limits on state university expenditures AND to bypass university rules regarding the purchase of alcoholic beverages, a school awarding a "desegregation award" to a minority racially-exclusive dance troop, etc.
Universities are the home of those who do not consider themselves to be accountable to others. The whole purpose of a tenure system, after all, is to shield faculty from accountability.
Faculty hiring is a mess. This is not from my own experience, but talking to my friends who have become law profs. But tenure has never been a shall-issue thing.
The sports stuff seems pretty bad. Not really a partisanship badness thing there.
Most of the rest of it is bad, but the kind of bad you will find at any institution. I'd bet law firms are worse.
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Meanwhile, the Cornell Sun itself blurred protester's faces in the course of ostensible news coverage so that the protesters wouldn't get in trouble.
Which is hilarious. Why would anybody at a public protest have any reason, at all, to have their faces blurred?
Have you asked the current Speaker of the House?
Why not?
Carry on, clingers. But only so far and so long as better Americans permit.
My theory: The university might punish the students involved in the newspaper. The rioters demanded protection from "doxxing": https://www.mediaite.com/news/cornell-students-find-univ-president-guilty-of-genocide-at-mock-trial-and-occupy-buildings-in-protest-against-israel/ .
C'est la vie.
If you do not want your face out publicly, do not attend a PUBLIC protest.
Did they learn that from the un-American assholes who constitute the House Republican caucus?
Cry harder, puss puss.
Crying is for losers, such as our vestigial clingers (whining, disaffected, right-wing law professors, for example).
I'm a culture war winner.
Crap behavior. Also bad was when Congress did the same thing about their tapes of Jan 06.
When did Congress blur the faces of anybody over 1/6?
Hell, the FBI is STILL going after people for misdemeanors over it.
Get an education or, at least, try to be informed.