The Volokh Conspiracy
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"Hate Nickels Because They Are Not Dimes"
In MCAD v. Kahalas, decided Nov. 17 by Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination Hearing Officer Jason Barshak, complainant Ambroise claimed she was racially harassed and then fired because of her race and because of her complaints about the harassment. (Ambroise was a paralegal at Kahalas's law office; she had graduated from law school, but hadn't passed the bar, in four tries. Ltayf, Ellison, Calloway, and Clancy were other support staff, and Welsh and Bongiorno were lawyers.) Here are the hearing officer's findings of facts:
"HATE NICKELS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DIMES COMMENT"
On or about November 3, 2017, Ambroise was working late in the paralegals' room. Kahalas saw her and said to Ambroise that he was going to call her nickels, because she hates nickels, because they are not dimes, and asked if she was trying to get ahead ("hate nickels because they are not dimes comment"). I credit Kahalas' testimony that he was making a joke that he had made for years. Kahalas explained its meaning. The joke was that one who hates nickels because they are not dimes is a person who wants to make more money. Based on Kahalas' credible testimony concerning what he said to Ambroise, I do not credit Ambroise's testimony to the extent it implies Kahalas only said that he was going to call her nickels.
Ambroise did not know what Kahalas meant by his comment. After speaking to a friend, she had an understanding that it was a term relative to the value of an enslaved black person. Ambroise then performed a Google search and one of the results was the Urban Dictionary, a website where people submit their own definition of cultural slang. She searched the Urban Dictionary and found about a page and a half of definitions of "nickels" with five to ten definitions per page. Nowhere under the definitions of "nickels" was there a definition with racial connotation. None of the definitions of "nickels" stated that it meant "nickels n-word" or referenced the n-word. {Witnesses used the term "n-word" to reference the word "nigger" and it is used herein to connote the same.} After the definitions of "nickels", there were words containing the term "nickel(s)" like "nickels n-word" and "nickel dollar" which had their own definitions. According to Urban Dictionary, "nickels n-word" meant a poor black person who pays in change.
At the time Ambroise heard Kahalas' comment, she did not associate it with "nickels n-word." At hearing, Ambroise admitted that she had no reason to believe that Kahalas has ever used the Urban Dictionary. It was only after speaking with a friend, and looking up the term "nickels" on Urban Dictionary that she concluded the comment had racial connotations….
Ambroise discussed Kahalas' comment with Welsh. Welsh was familiar with Kahalas using a phrase that included "nickels" and remembered it was something to the effect of rubbing two nickels to get a dime. Welsh told Ambroise that he was certain that Kahalas did not mean the comment in reference to race. Ambroise told Welsh that she agreed. I do not credit Ambroise's testimony that she did not talk to Welsh about the comment in light of Welsh's credible testimony that they discussed it.
The day after Kahalas made the comment, Ambroise told Aronson about the definition of "nickels n-word" in the Urban Dictionary. Ambroise told Aronson that "nickels" was somewhat connected to "nickels n-word" and she was not comfortable with Kahalas using the term "nickels." She asked Aronson to tell Kahalas not to call her "nickels" again.
Kahalas learned from Aronson that Ambroise had complained about his comment. He could not understand how the joke he had told for years could be interpreted as a racial comment, and was livid that he was being accused of making a racist comment. I credit Kahalas' testimony that he felt Ambroise was trying to make him look like he had said something racist when he had not. Kahalas never used the Urban Dictionary and did not know it existed until after he was told Ambroise looked something up on it.
Kahalas never used the term "nickels" again and told Ambroise that he didn't mean anything other than a joke….
NOVEMBER 13-14, 2017
I credit the following testimony by Ambroise. On November 13, 2017, there was a meeting between Ambroise, Kahalas and Guerriero. During that meeting, Kahalas told Ambroise that she was being hypersensitive for complaining about the "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" and needed to lighten up; asked Ambroise whether she had a personal issue with Guerriero; and notified Ambroise that she was receiving a warning for leaving the office without notifying a supervisor. I infer that warning was for the November 10, 2017 incident since Kahalas had already notified Ambroise of the warning for the November 1, 2017 incident. I credit Ambroise's testimony regarding the November 13, 2017 meeting for the following reasons: Kahalas was upset over Ambroise's reaction to his comment; the Ambroise-Guerriero relationship had deteriorated by that point (see below); and just three days before, Ambroise had left the office without permission. In light of Ambroise's credible testimony regarding this meeting, I do not credit Kahalas' testimony to the extent it implies that: (a) after November 10, 2017, he did not discuss with Ambroise her leaving the office without permission; or (b) the only conversation he had with her regarding the "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" was telling Ambroise that he didn't mean anything other than a joke.
The next day, November 14, 2017, Ambroise overheard a conversation in which Kahalas was telling Bergel that Ambroise was accusing him of being a racist; he was not stupid enough to call her anything bad; he gave money to Suffolk University Law School for minority scholarships; and guessed Ambroise received a scholarship. I credit Ambroise's description of what she overheard, as it is corroborated by the following. Kahalas graduated from and donated funds to Suffolk University Law School for minority students who could not afford to attend law school.
Kahalas' comments on November 13 and 14, 2017 made Ambroise uncomfortable.
ALLEGED LUNCHROOM INCIDENT
Ambroise testified that on November 17 or 18, 2017, Ltayf commented that Ambroise's hair looked like a Brillo pad, Ambroise was ugly or "fucking ugly," black women were ugly, and made a sound of disgust regarding Ambroise…. I do not credit Ambroise's testimony, and I find that Ltayf made a joking comment about Bongiorno's hair and not a derogatory racial comment about anyone….
{LTAYF'S ALLEGED COMMENTS
Professional appearance in the office was important to Ltayf. If Ltayf believed an employee's appearance was inappropriate, she would tell the employee. Ltayf told Clancy, when she dyed her hair blue, that her hair was nice but inappropriate for the office. Ltayf believed attire was important to Kahalas and did not want Clancy to get in trouble. Clancy corroborated Ltayf's focus on professional appearance and belief that Kahalas required professional appearance, by testifying that Ltayf told Clancy that her blue hair looked silly and Kahalas would not allow it.
Ltayf considered Ambroise's overall appearance to be disheveled. Ltayf believed Ambroise's hair looked unhealthy and her attire unprofessional as it was not office-wear. Ltayf made comments to others about Ambroise's unprofessional appearance at work.
Ambroise became offended about something Ltayf said about Ambroise's hair. I credit Ltayf's recollection of that incident. On one day, Ltayf noticed there was something, perhaps a piece of lint, in Ambroise's hair, told Ambroise there was something in her hair, and removed it from Ambroise's hair, who "totally took [the situation] out of context."
On another occasion, Ltayf asked Ambroise if she used hair conditioner during a discussion regarding hair products with Ambroise, Ellison and Clancy. Although Clancy did not recall the discussion, I credit Ltayf's testimony that it occurred, because I find persuasive Ltayf's testimony that she and Ambroise did not have the kind of relationship where Ltayf would just walk up to Ambroise and ask her whether she used hair conditioner.
I credit Ambroise's testimony that in October 2017, Ltayf made a comment about Ambroise's skirt in front of Guerriero, who snickered, as it is corroborated by Ltayf's testimony that she considered the things that Ambroise wore to be unprofessional.
At times, Ltayf commented about how beautiful Ellison was, and how nice her hair looked.
I do not credit Ambroise's testimony that early in her employment, at a time when she was looking for supplies in a closet, Ltayf told Ambroise to "come out of the closet already," because Ambroise filed a statement with the Commission within one month after her employment at the Firm ended that did not reference such a comment.
I do not credit Ambroise's testimony that in late September/early October 2017, Ltayf asked her if she ever combed her hair nor do I credit her testimony that in mid-November 2017, Ltayf again asked her if she ever combed her hair. Ambroise testified that she believed both comments were made in front of Clancy's desk and that Clancy overheard them. Clancy credibly testified she never heard such comments.}
The hearing officer concluded that the various comments Ambroise complained about weren't based on her race or color, and thus weren't racial harassment:
I determine that the following comments and actions were not based on race or color. First, as detailed below in the disparate treatment section, the two verbal warnings Ambroise received were not based on race or color. Second, there is no evidence the skirt comment was based on race or color. Third, derogatory comments about physical features linked to race can constitute race discrimination and/or create a hostile work environment, but Ltayf asking Ambroise, as part of a group discussion regarding hair products, if she used a hair conditioner is not a derogatory comment based on race or color. Fourth, Ltayf's comment about Ambroise having something in her hair and taking it out was rude, but under the circumstances in this case, not based on race or color. Fifth, Ltayf's positive comments about Ellison and her hair do not imply derogatory comments about Ambroise's hair or race or color. Sixth, Kahalas calling Ambroise incompetent in the context of her drafting a letter was not based on race or color as evidenced by his expressing displeasure at times regarding quality of work by Ltayf. Because these comments and actions were not based on race or color, they cannot support the hostile work environment claims.
I determine the "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" itself was not based on race or color. It was a joke about money Kahalas had used for years. Ambroise had no reason to believe he ever used the Urban Dictionary; admitted that nowhere under the definitions of "nickels" in the Urban Dictionary was there any definition with a racial connotation; and agreed with Welsh that Kahalas did not mean the comment in reference to race.
There may be circumstances where an employee being told she was hypersensitive and should lighten up over a comment she thought had racial connotations are not themselves comments based on race. However, under the circumstances of this case, which include Kahalas speculating the next day after he said such comments that Ambroise received a scholarship designed for underprivileged minority students, I determine the hypersensitive, lighten up, and scholarship comments are sufficiently connected to race or color. I shall collectively refer to those three comments as "Kahalas' reactionary comments."
Lastly, I analyze whether the comments connected to race or color, when considered in their totality, were sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the terms or conditions of employment or create an abusive working environment for a reasonable person in Ambroise's position considering all the circumstances. Even though I determined that the "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" was itself not based on race or color, it is inherently entangled with Kahalas' reactionary comments, and under the circumstances, I deem it appropriate to consider the combined effect of that comment and Kahalas' reactionary comments in assessing whether there was an actionable hostile work environment.
The n-word is one of the most vile and devastating words in the English language. Its single utterance, by itself, is more than sufficient to establish a hostile work environment by race and color. But in this case, the n-word was not used, and any connotation to it is too attenuated to have meaningful impact. The "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" was a joke about money that Kahalas had used for years. When Ambroise heard the comment, she did not associate it with "nickels n-word." None of the definitions of "nickels" she found in the Urban Dictionary had a racial connotation, meant "nickels n-word" or referenced the n-word. In the Urban Dictionary, the term "nickels n-word" was a separate term from the term "nickels" with its own definition. Ambroise had no reason to believe Kahalas ever used the Urban Dictionary and agreed with Welsh that Kahalas did not mean the comment in reference to race. Kahalas telling Ambroise that she was being hypersensitive and should lighten up regarding his comment was insensitive. Kahalas complaining to another employee about Ambroise's reaction to his comment and speculating she had received a scholarship designed for underprivileged minority students was insensitive and insulting. However, Kahalas' reactionary comments combined with each other and the underlying "hate nickels because they are not dimes comment" fail to create a sufficiently severe or pervasive hostile work environment to rise to the level of race or color harassment. Thus, the hostile work environment claims of race and color are dismissed….
The court also concluded that there was no evidence that Ambroise's eventual firing was based on her race or on retaliation for her complainants.
Richard M. Welsh, Jr. represents Kahalas.
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This just shows the way things are these days. Anything a White person says can be taken as a racial statement. Remember the woman who was fired for using the word "niggardly" in a statement.
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While I do not know how he identifies, from all appearances David Howard is a man.
by appearances? so is Michelle Obama
But Stephanie Bell is from all appearances, a woman.
Even so, if he is going to be a crybully and a Karen he has to expect some of us to assume he's a she. He should have been told to grow a thicker hide before this ever got to court.
I'm not very big on PC, come on. No white man is going to use the word "niggardly" in a conversation with a black man by accident.
Why, do they mean nearly the same thing or is the oversensitive word policing and opportunistic outrage more to blame for that?
I'd argue that most people just don't use that word at all. Why even risk a misunderstanding?
Most people have a limited vocabulary, true.
I hate pennies.
I hate pennies in garbage disposals....
You know, if I'm trying to figure out what a lawyer in my firm means by some slang, my first thought is not going to be "check Urban Dictionary." Slang has meaning depending on who is using it, and asking the wrong context is like trying to find out what a German word means by checking a Spanish dictionary.
Oh, such an opportunity squandered to reference "English as She is Spoke."
The basic problem with letting an alleged victim control the meaning of others’ speech or actions is that segregationists would be entitled to claim that sitting in the front of the bus, or for that matter talking back to the bus driver while weating a military uniform, represents an unacceptable insult to white people.
Indeed, many of the famous lynchings of the previous century involve cases where white people perceived something a black person did as an insult. The lynchers claimed to be victims. Indeed, it was a characteristic claim of the segregationist south, an essential part of their psychology, that they were victims. Indeed, the politics of victimhood worn on one’s sleeve and deployed as an offensive weapon were invented by slaveholders and segregationists.
Allowing the alleged victim to control meaning, considering it an insult if the alleged victim perceived it as an insult regardless of what the speaker intended or how an outside party might perceive it, would simply repeat past injustices with the tables turned. It would not serve the goal of a more just society. Courts have to apply a more objective, external, neutral perspective.
Oy vey! That long story shows why I am glad that I no longer have to handle personnel issues.
lol yes
I'm somewhat bemused by the use of "n-word" throughout. Even in court decisions, we can't really talk about what we're talking about. At least it's clarified in footnote 2.
Regardless, plaintiffs like Ambroise are what we're dealing with. They'll take some innocuous comment and do extensive research to find out if there's a way they should be offended. Having found one, they'll pretend to be offended and file a lawsuit. Of course somebody whose plan is to file a lawsuit will find something to be offended over.
What's amazing here is that the MCAD didn't consider it discrimination.
Now I'm of three minds about the quality of Suffolk Law (it is tightly tied to Beacon Hill) but it's not like UMass Dartmouth Law, and she graduated from there but flunked the (race neutral) bar exam four times? The term "affirmative action" comes to mind.
Oh, and Kirkland, you gotta reset your clock. Because the MCAD used the word ******.
Do you find the frequency with which the Volokh Conspiracy publishes vile racial slurs innocuous?
Carry on, “color-blind” clingers.
The reason the proprietor found this case interesting enough to publish is found at the third paragraph.
UCLA must be counting the minutes. Not the weeks, nor the days. Not the hours.
The minutes.
Carry on, clingers.
Maybe instead of going to the urban dictionary, she should have asked what Kahalas meant by the comment, or neutrally and professionally state that she would prefer that he use her name and not a nickname.
I think it's stupid to give nicknames to your coworkers: it can greatly annoy people and using a diminutive can make people feel diminished. This is especially true when the nickname is an object and not even a standard nickname. But stupid isn't always a hostile work environment.
"I think it’s stupid to give nicknames to your coworkers"
You would not like naval aviation.
Or trading desks.
I was under the impression she was working in a law office, not naval aviation. In that setting, it is not common to use nicknames for your coworkers, and the act of singling someone out with an object-as-a-nickname invites this kind of angst. Perhaps I should have stated my implied words: in a modern professional office, it's a poor idea.
Regardless, it obviously cost Kahalas a pretty penny to defend this suit, which could have been avoided by not referring to someone by a rather weird nickname.
Does nobody know what a dime is? A 'ten.' Like in female looks. A perfect ten (very attractive female) is a dime. I would interpret 'hate nickels' to be a comment on her looks.
I don't know nickels in reference to dimes. Have not heard that. But if dimes is what I think it is, then nickels are just another way to comment on someone's looks. I.e, to say they are far from pretty.
Everything else is people covering up for Kahalas and this scorned employee sued for the wrong reason (or wrong type of hostile work environment).
In my 48 years in the United States, I have never until now heard "dime" used to refer to a woman's looks. Of course, it may well vary with geography, social circle, and so on; it may be well-known to some, but not to me, and I can't speak about Mr. Kahalas.
Not enough pulp detective novels for you then. Even in this context he is calling her ugly or at least undesirable which isn't a good connotation for a work nickname.
It went national in 1979 with the movie "10" and Bo Derek.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_(1979_film)
It's sophomoric, but rating a woman's appearance on a 1-10 scale.
I guess I run in the same (or similar) circles as Eugene. I've literally *never* heard 'dime' used in this way. The only time I've heard it used as slang is in regards to basketball, and only in TV commentating/reporting on games. (I guess it means having an assist on a basket--the etymology of this is beyond me).
{When watching sepia-toned detective/crime movies or TV shows, I'd also hear "dropping a dime" to refer to someone making a phone call to give inculpatory information to law enforcement. That was an obvious reference to the then-cost of making a phone call from a pay phone.}
The more you know . . . .
At one point, I believe in the late 70s but it may have been later, the Black ministers and Black grandmothers in Boston had a "drop a dime" campaign to get crime reported.
Of course, my immediate thought of "dime" or "nickel" is a reference to the size of a bag of illegal drugs. Memory is that a dime bag was $10 and a nickel bag $5.
But at to rating women -- yes, as a freshman in the dining commons, I will admit to having participated in that...
"The only time I’ve heard it used as slang is in regards to basketball, and only in TV commentating/reporting on games."
Sp you've lived a sheltered life and never bought a dime bag of weed or dropped a dime on someone. Good for you.
"Dime," not "10."
Dime.
See my earlier comment about slang having the meaning of the people using it. Your crude rating of women might be your definition of a dime, but that doesn't make it universally applicable. Unless there's some testimony that he or even just people in that area generally used the word dime this way, there's no reason to apply it.
The reason is that somebody made a strange, stupid, inappropriate comment, and the claim creates a reason to try to understand what the jerk was trying to communicate.
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I immediately sensed that meaning, too, although from the context it is difficult to dismiss a racial angle.
I had not heard that; however, a quick google of "attractive woman dime" showed that the usage is common.
Not sure it fits within the phrase "hates nickels because they are not dimes;" however, it supports my belief that you should avoid using weird or unwanted nicknames for your employees.
True. "I'm gonna call you [virtually any nickname]" is standard workplace bullying (although context might indicate a different reason).
Somewhat reminiscent of the Howard Cosell "little monkey" controversy.
Who didn't have a race-ist bone in his whole body, I loved Howard who was an even better baseball announcer than foo-bawl, not at the same level as Vin Scully, but way better than that insufferable Joe Garagiola or Tony Kubek. In the 70's the only way to keep up with the NFL was the 1/2 time highlights on MNF. Great with boxing also, which I haven't watched since Ali/Spinks 2 in 1978
Frank
Good example of inanity and waste in personnel cases. Sad that people have to waste their time on such complaints.
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That's not why this case was selected for mention at the Volokh Conspiracy.
Not nearly.
People still try to use humor in the workplace? Why? How do the benefits outweigh the potential risks?
In 1976 Richard Pryor had 2 Albums out 1 called “Bicentennial Nigger” and “That Niggers Crazy” both still available on Amazon/Youtubes with the full Un-woke titles. In Junior High we’d go to the Tower Records in Glendale, Brother behind the counter was some 6’5 275lb Mandingo, we’d dare each other to go ask him if they had either album. I never had the balls, it’s one thing to tell the new chick med student to go find Mike Hunt in the waiting room, another to risk dismemberment and serious bodily injury over a goof. Both Albums still funny as shit, but Bezos will keep track of you if you buy it…
and almost forgot, probably the best one of all
"Suppernigger" (1982 Laff Records)
"Up in the Sky! it's a Crow! it's a Bat! its Super Nigger!!!!!"
"We find our Hero, Clark Washington, Custodian at the Daily Planet, walking into Perry White's Office.... Hey man, I quit!"
actually did buy that one at a record store in Atlanta, another Brother behind the counter,
"Uhh, hey man, you guys got that new Richard Pryor Album?"
"Which One"
"Uh, you know man, Super something"
"Supernigger? of course!"
Frank
Don't try to humanize Frank Drackman. You can't. He uses words.
This is thirdhand, but as it was explained to me, BLACK Detroit cops use the term "nigger" to define Black criminals. It's derogatory and intended to be --- their issue is with their conduct.
Somewhere, surveying his handiwork, a professor nods and smiles.
Use/mention distinction-- if the court decision is about somebody saying cracker, beaner, nigger, towelhead, cunt, etc., then the court decision should say what was actually said. Obviously the judiciary repeating something isn't endorsing it, any more than recounting the details of a homicide in a court decision is endorsing murder. I think what the court did here in a footnote is okay, but could quickly spiral out of control if it did it for too many words-- imagine a court decision peppered with N-word, F-word 1, F-word 2, R-word, S-word, C-word, C-word2,-- there'd be so many checking footnotes it would become unreadable.
I've seen decisions that just say "n-word" or even "a slur" which really doesn't work. The point of written decisions is to establish precedent and develop law, if the court doesn't tell us the facts of the case then it fails to be a useful precedent.