The Volokh Conspiracy
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It's Not So Hard to Write an Opinion Following Bruen and Reversing in Rahimi
a contrary view to Josh's
Below, Josh argues that "an opinion reversing Rahimi will be tougher to write than most critics will admit" and also claims that "Rahimi was a faithful application of Bruen. Efforts to "clarify" Bruen are really an attempt to rewrite the precedent. I don't think anyone seriously doubts this premise."
With respect, I think that both of these claims are wrong, for reasons that Professor Robert Leider and I gave in our essay, The General Law Right to Bear Arms. An opinion that faithfully applies Bruen and reverses the Fifth Circuit in Rahimi is not hard to write. It has two major steps.
First, the Court will point out that Bruen called for a particular kind of originalist approach, one where the Constitution's "meaning is fixed according to the understandings of those who ratified it," but it "can, and must, apply to circumstances beyond those the Founders specifically anticipated." In particular, this approach calls for the judges to enforce historically-recognized principles about when the right to keep and bear arms can be regulated. This is what Bruen is referring to when it talks about lawyerly "analogical reasoning" which focuses on "how and why" past regulations burdened the right -- analogical reasoning that is "neither a regulatory straightjacket nor a regulatory blank check."
Second, the Court will likely conclude that one such historical principle -- as then-Judge Barrett has already argued in detail -- is that the government may forbid those who have been shown to be dangerous to keep and bear arms. What distinguishes this dangerousness principle from other examples of rights that might be thought dangerous or socially costly is the history of the right to bear arms itself, which is what Bruen says to look to.
Finally, such an opinion is especially easy to write because the Fifth Circuit sustained a facial challenge to Section 922(g)(8). Thus many harder questions -- what if the state court proceeding violates due process or is otherwise shoddy? what if the deprivation is not based on a dangerousness finding? etc. -- can all be responsibly postponed to future cases. I don't think this opinion will be hard to write, nor will it require rewriting any part of Bruen.
[To be sure, there are decent arguments that Rahimi's counsel could have made better, and there are likely to be much harder cases coming soon after Rahimi. For instance, Rahimi's counsel could have done more to try to prove that the dangerousness principle only applies to bearing arms, not keeping arms, or perhaps that it is only an incident to the war power and not the commerce power. But I don't think the way the case was argued will make it hard for the Court to conclude otherwise. And I agree with what Josh wrote earlier, that the application of the dangerousness principle to other federal statutes, such as the felon-in-possession ban, is likely to produce much more litigation and soon. Indeed, I would not be surprised if the Court's likely reversal in Rahimi is followed at the next conference by a cert grant in Range or a similar case.]
In general, I do think there is a campaign to get the Court to walk back from the test it set forth in Bruen, as the right to keep and bear arms is generally quite unpopular among lawyers and policymakers. But not every decision upholding a regulation against facial challenges in fact reflects such a retreat from Bruen. And the Court's decision in Rahimi need not be such a retreat, so it seems premature to conclude that it would be.
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This guy is relatively new at the Conspiracy, so he left out the parts about making goo-goo eyes at Thomas and Alito; wondering why Roberts considers himself an American; describing how mainstream students were insufficiently hospitable to right-wing thinking during school and in bars; shouting out to a couple of circuit or district court extremists; and claiming to have invented the relevant argument(s).
Hush, the grownups are talking.
Well, a grown-up, anyway.
I would advise Will not to respond to Josh's amateurism. Treating Josh like an equal just vindicates his inflated sense of self-worth, because Josh is deaf to the subtle criticisms the responses often carry.
I like the part where you think Will Baude is somehow heads and shoulders better than Josh Blackman. If we were judging them based on the success in courts of their respective interpretations of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, you’d be wrong.
Now I don’t have a dog in the hunt, but you apparently do. And your dog is behind the pack. Keep fanboying, though.
Why, in your judgment, is Prof. Blackman still stuck at one of the shittiest law schools still permitted to award degrees in the United States?
Didn’t someone with a name very similar to mine pretty much write this the other day?
” Thus many harder questions—what if the state court proceeding violates due process or is otherwise shoddy? what if the deprivation is not based on a dangerousness finding? etc.—can all be responsibly postponed to future cases.”
Remember my point about bringing Gideon rights into civil protective orders because of the related gun grab?
.
At the Volokh Conspiracy?
At Reason?
Get a grip.
Yes, but will the opinion broadly uphold disarming law-abiding men who happen to be in a messy divorce, or to have a vindictive ex-girlfriend?
No it won’t. It won’t address the question. It will address only the question of whether the state can disarm people found to have engaged in domestic violence. It won’t address what process or quantum of evidence is required to support such a finding. These questions were never presented to the Supreme Court.
Because the opinion won’t address these issues, current legal procedures and evidentiary standards will remain in effect until a case where these issues are presented arises. But remaining silent about these practices for now is still very different from “broadly upholding” them.
Rahimi can't find that because at the time the restriction was imposed, he had not yet been "found to have engaged in domestic violence" - he was merely accused of it at that point. And that's the whole point of the law suit. What level of civil rights abrogation is allowed before your actual conviction?
Courts frequently hold in jail before trial those not convicted of crimes. Such detention is clearly constitutional and the deprivation of liberty here encompasses and exceeds revoking fun possession rights.
Is that relevant to your analysis of the issue at hand?
Yes, suspects get held in jail after being indicted, arrested, charged, given a bail hearing, etc. But men get hit with dv restraining orders based on flimsy request from an ex-girlfriend. He should not lose his constitutional right unless there is substantial evidence and due process.
That is not what happened in Rahimi. Noticing that is sort of the point of the controversy.
They get hit with restraining orders based on the findings and order of a judge. The question of what evidence is behind that order and whether it is adequate or not is not being addressed in Rahimi.
Indictments and arrests are often based on the same “flimsy” evidence, a “flimsy” request that the person be arrested based on nothing more than a “flimsy” claim that the person committed a crime.
Yes, the evidence against a criminal defendant may be flimsy, but at least the hearing are about the actual charges. I would be okay with a judge ordering a gun removed if a hearing finds that the man is a threat to commit a crime with the gun. But a dv restraining order hearing might never even mention guns.
.
Harsh.
But true!
An individualized finding based on a hearing, not a categorical one.
Rahimi wasn’t merely accused. He was convicted in a court. And before that, a judge issued a protective order. You may think the evidence and process behind that order insufficient. But it constitutes a finding, not a mere accusation.
And it’s besides the point. Not being accused of anything wouldn’t be an obstacle here even if it was the case. There are plenty of facial challenges where the plaintiff not only hasn’t been accused of anything, he hasn’t even done anything, and claims standing on grounds he wants to violate the law and fears he will be arrested if he does.
Zackey Rahimi agreed to entry of the order of protection. H could have had an evidentiary hearing on his accuser's allegations, but he elected to waive his right thereto. Neither is his having violated 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) at issue. He pleaded guilty, reserving his facial challenge to the statute for appeal.
When you just state the facts like that, it seems all the handwringing from Blackman down through the comments is silly. Like, maybe, it’s neither the end of the world nor the end of Bruen but a pretty easy, 9-0 reversal of the Fifth Circuit.
Or simply a dismissal as improvidently granted since they really cant reach the question.
I think they can reach the question presented which is: "Whether 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(8), which prohibits the possession of firearms by persons subject to domestic-violence restraining orders, violates the Second Amendment on its face."
“ In general, I do think there is a campaign to get the Court to walk back from the test it set forth in Bruen, as the right to keep and bear arms is generally quite unpopular among lawyers…”
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers".
+1
“The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers”.
This quote is frequently misconstrued. In fact, in context, it is making the opposite point you think it is.
Lamppost Ed approves though, so there’s that
Yup, as Estragon notes and Ed will never ever understand.
It’s spoken by the character Dick the Butcher in Act IV, Scene II of Henry VI, Part II. Watch the play and you’ll notice Dick is a villain, part of an aggressively anti-intellectual group in rebellion against King Henry. They burn documents or books and kill anyone displaying literacy (both issues of some concern to most lawyers, with the possible exception of lawyers willing to work for Ron DeSantis).
There are a couple contradictory readings of the sentiment, but one of the most broadly accepted was captured by Justice John Paul Stevens in a 1985 SCOTUS decision:
Irrespective of the characteristics or morals of lawyers in a specific legal system, consensus is that the line’s intent is to imply the importance of a fair rule of law that protects all the people.
"An opinion that faithfully applies Bruen and reverses the Fifth Circuit in Rahimi is not hard to write. It has two major steps."
The "two-step" Bruen condemned should not be replaced by another two-step.
First, the Court will point out that Bruen called for a particular kind of originalist approach, one where the Constitution’s “meaning is fixed according to the understandings of those who ratified it,” but it “can, and must, apply to circumstances beyond those the Founders specifically anticipated.” In particular, this approach calls for the judges to enforce historically-recognized principles about when the right to keep and bear arms can be regulated. This is what Bruen is referring to when it talks about lawyerly “analogical reasoning” which focuses on “how and why” past regulations burdened the right—analogical reasoning that is “neither a regulatory straightjacket nor a regulatory blank check.”
It is nigh impossible to square that with any historically plausible account of what happened at the time the 2A was drafted and ratified. That is because understandings which applied to the drafting readily pass a test of coherence, but understandings which applied to ratification cannot pass that test.
If the understandings applied to the drafting were relied upon as the standard to be used now, you would have something workable, albeit sharply at odds with Heller, and thus also at odds with Bruen. In short, you would be back to the Militia Clause as the sole purpose for the amendment in the federal Constitution. All other purposes, such as self-defense, would be protected variously among the states according to notably differing interpretations of their state constitutions.
But according to Heller, the 2A was not ratified on those premises. Heller insists instead that self-defense—and perhaps various other desiderata to be applied to keeping and bearing of arms—can be recognized as uniform nationally. Heller does that while disparaging the militia purpose—the one anchor for national agreement driving ratification. Heller attempts to support that conclusion with historical reasoning derived from a tacit premise that contradictory state-by-state interpretations inferred (from a methodologically sloppy) historical examination of national gun culture can be aggregated, and thus a national purpose for ratification can be historically inferred. But aggregated contradictions do not add up to historical synthesis.
No such unity of purpose among state ratification decisions can be found in the historical record. Across the slave-holding South the purpose of 2A ratification was principally to assure that militia arms were available to suppress slave rebellions. In New York and Massachusetts, to announce any such purpose would have thwarted ratification. The motivating concerns in those states were first to avoid the expense of standing armies, and secondarily to deprive a federal government of armed force sufficient to tyrannize the states. That secondary purpose was demonstrably also a secondary purpose in the South, but in neither region did that extend to making personal self-defense a salient motivator for ratification.
Early on in Pennsylvania, and later in Vermont, self-defense was specifically a historically cogent justification for ratification. Nowhere else in the North can a historical argument to support that purpose be proved historically.
Purely as a matter of politics, chaotically different motivations for ratification state-by-state provided a means to secure ratification nationally. That political chaos from the past does not now furnish a coherent means for, “judges to enforce historically-recognized principles about when the right to keep and bear arms can be regulated.” No such historically recognizable synthesis ever happened.
Thanks.
Any reversal by SCOTUS in Rahimi will necessarily involve some retrenchment from the Bruen trainwreck. Domestic violence simply was not a significant concern of the law when the Second Amendment was ratified.
The Fifth Circuit decision in Rahimi is execrable, but it follows the reasoning of Bruen faithfully.
"Domestic violence simply was not a significant concern of the law when the Second Amendment was ratified."
That's not a serious issue at the state level; States have the general police power, they are, constitutionally, free to decide to make previously lawful conduct unlawful, so long as they avoid constitutional rights.
But the thing you do with unlawful conduct is try people for it, and then unless you convict them, you leave them be. Not conduct some kind of sketchy judicial 'finding' and impose the punishment on the basis of that.
The notion that the federal government is entitled to deprive somebody of a constitutional right based on a state conviction, though? That's really dubious. I'm just not seeing any enumerated power basis for it, at all.
A view from the neighborhood of normal people : What will happen is that in order to stop gun ownership the gravity of crimes will be increased as will the definition, So the guy you aren't married to but whom you had a fight with will now be barred. And he just might kill you because of that.