The Volokh Conspiracy
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[UPDATED] New York AG Tells Platforms to Disclose What They Are Doing About "Calls for Violence and Other Materials That May Incite Violence"
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression responds.
[UPDATE 10/19/2023, 7:57 pm EST: The AG's office has withdrawn its request as to Rumble, writing: "While we wholeheartedly disagree with your analysis and the contentions in your letter, in view of your statement that Rumble has 'already provided its content-moderation policies' to the Attorney General's Office, and in the interest of avoiding any unnecessary dispute, this Office hereby withdraws the voluntary requests
set forth in its October 12, 2023 letter to Rumble."]
From a letter sent by the New York Attorney General to "Google, Meta, X (formerly Twitter), TikTok, Reddit, and Rumble" on Oct. 12:
Re: Removing Calls for Violence on the [name of platform] Platform …
In the wake of the horrific terrorist attacks in Israel, there have been reports of growing antisemitism and Islamophobia, including threats of violence against Jewish and Muslim people and institutions. We have also become aware of press reports that terrorist groups and individuals that sympathize with them are disseminating calls for violence and other materials that may incite violence against Jewish and Muslim people and institutions on social media platforms. We are deeply concerned about this activity in light of the tragic history of such calls for violence. We would like to better understand how [your platform is] ensuring that its platform (the "Platform") is not being used to incite violence and further terrorist activities, including by describing how the company is identifying, removing, and blocking the re-uploading of such content.
We request that you promptly respond to the following questions by October 20, 2023.
- What actions, if any, has the company taken to address the recent calls for violence against Jewish and Muslim people and institutions and the possibility that the Platform may be used to plan, encourage, or disseminate those acts?
- Describe in detail the public-facing terms of service, community rules, or other policies that prohibit users from using your Platform to disseminate calls for violence, including copies of any documentation or policies.
- Describe in detail the company-facing policies that govern the determination of whether content is a call for violence that should be removed, including copies of any documentation and policies.
- Describe in detail the company's process for reviewing and removing calls for violence in response to reports from Platform users, including copies of any internal documentation.
- Describe in detail the company's process for identifying and removing calls for violence other than in response to reports from Platform users, including copies of any internal documentation.
- Describe in detail the company's methods for identifying and removing additional copies of content that has been removed as a result of the processes described in response to Question 4 and Question 5.
- Describe in detail the company's methods for blocking the re-posting of content that has been removed as a result of the processes described in response to Question 4, 5, and 6.
- Describe in detail the company's policies regarding disciplining, suspending, and/or banning users for posting content that has been removed as a result of the processes described in response to Question 4 and Question 5.
- Describe in detail whether content that has been removed as a result of the European Union's Digital Service Act is removed globally or whether such content remains accessible to users in the United States.
- Explain whether the company has used the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism hash-sharing database to identify content on the Platform calling for
- For all questions above, please identify the company or affiliate group responsible for such processes, including but not limited to the organizational chart for such group and the number of full and part-time employees in such group.
The accompanying press release seems to me to make clear that this isn't mere research, but rather an attempt to get the platforms to "prohibit the spread of violent rhetoric that puts vulnerable groups in danger."
Here's an excerpt from the letter that FIRE (which is representing Rumble and me in Volokh v. James, a challenge to a New York law that would require platforms to, among other things, post policies on how they deal with supposed "hate speech") just sent in response; note that in that letter, FIRE is just representing Rumble and not me, since the AG's office only sent its letters to a limited group of platforms:
As the Attorney General's Office knows, Rumble, in addition to Locals Technology Inc. (Locals) and Eugene Volokh, is a plaintiff in a lawsuit against Attorney General James challenging New York's Online Hate Speech Law. The law targets "hateful" speech across the internet—defining "hateful" content as that which may "vilify, humiliate, or incite violence against" ten protected classes—requiring websites to develop and publish hate-speech policies and reporting mechanisms, and to respond to reports of hate speech. But Judge Andrew Carter of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York enjoined enforcement of the law, including the law's investigation and enforcement provisions. Volokh v. James, No. 22 Civ. 10195, 2023 WL 1991435 (S.D.N.Y. Feb. 14, 2023).
The October 12th letters "request" information about the Investigated Platforms' editorial policies, processes, and decisions for content that "may incite violence." At a minimum and on their face, the letters plainly seek to allow the Office to "take proof and make determinations of fact" under the Online Hate Speech Law. And according to your October 13th press release, the letters go further by demanding that the Investigated Platforms disclose their actions to "stop the spread of hateful content" and "violent rhetoric," in a transparent effort to get them to "remove" protected speech. Because these demands, compounded by their vague references to hateful or violent speech, are within the scope of the Online Hate Speech Law's investigation provision, they violate the district court's injunction. Volokh, 2023 WL 1991435 at *1.
Rumble abhors violence, antisemitism, and hatred, and is horrified by the October 7th Hamas attacks on Israeli civilians. However, federal court orders and the First Amendment prohibit any investigation under the Online Hate Speech Law or any attempt to burden the protected speech of the Investigated Platforms and their users. Rumble, therefore, demands that the Attorney General rescind the October 12, 2023 investigation letters immediately. And in any event, in response to a similar June 2022 letter from the Attorney General's Office, Rumble already provided its content-moderation policies, which expressly prohibit the posting of content that promotes violence, illegal activities, and harm or injury to any group, including antisemitism. The policies, which are available online, speak for themselves, and Rumble respectfully declines to respond further at this time….
Further, the October 12th investigation letters unconstitutionally burden the Investigated Platforms' publication of First Amendment-protected content and the protected speech of third-party content creators. The First Amendment protects the rights of internet platforms as publishers of third-party content. Like newspapers and bookstores, websites have a First Amendment right to maintain the autonomy of their editorial judgment and discretion "in the selection and presentation of" content provided to the public.
Similarly, the First Amendment protects content creators and users from governmental burdens that are likely to chill their speech—exactly what the State's investigation letters seek to accomplish with their broad, vague, and inherently subjective language, coupled with references to removing content and "disciplining, suspending, and/or banning users." As the Court said in Volokh, "the state's targeting and singling out of [particular] speech for special measures certainly could make social media users wary about the types of speech they feel free to engage in without facing consequences from the state." See also Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan, 372 U.S. 58, 68 (1963) ("People do not lightly disregard public officers' thinly veiled threats to institute … proceedings against them if they do not come around.").
The State's investigation letters—though styled as information requests—nevertheless signal that the Investigated Platforms should remove "hateful content" and ban "violent rhetoric." The letters, after all, are titled "Removing Calls for Violence on the [company] Platform." The word "remove," or variations of it, appears 10 more times in the two-page letter, with repeated references to "identifying" and "blocking" disfavored content.
Combined with the Attorney General's October 13th press release and her past rhetoric, the Investigated Platforms can draw only one conclusion: The chief law-enforcement agent in New York, with vast resources at her disposal, wants what she determines to be "hateful content" and "violent rhetoric" related to Jewish and Muslim people removed from online platforms—and there may be legal consequences if platforms do not do so to the State's satisfaction. This conclusion requires the Investigated Platforms, among others, to "steer far wider" in their content removal than they otherwise would to avoid the legal threat.
The investigation letters are centered around the dissemination of "calls for violence" and "other materials that may incite violence," exacerbating their First Amendment burdens by their use of these phrases and similarly overbroad, vague, and inherently subjective language. The State fails to define these phrases or terms, and thus fails to inform the Investigated Platforms of the type of conduct or speech that could be encapsulated by them. We are therefore forced to wonder, would a video created by a pro-Israeli activist calling for bombing Gaza qualify as a "call for violence"? Is a news report including a quotation from a pro-Palestinian protestor defending Hamas attacks on Israeli military equal to "disseminating calls for violence and other materials that may incite violence"? Do the statements of American elected officials, such as Representative Cori Bush's October 9th call to "end[] U.S. support for Israeli military occupation and apartheid" or Senator Lindsey Graham's October 10th statement that "[w]e're in a religious war … do whatever the hell you have to do to defend yourself. Level the Place!" qualify as speech that "may incite violence" or "encourage" violence?
Just as [the Online Hate Speech Law] was preliminarily enjoined as likely to violate the First Amendment—because it inhibits protected expression with viewpoint-discriminatory, overbroad, and vague speech regulations—so too does the State's investigation impinge the free publication and creation of protected speech on Investigated Platforms' websites….
Again, this is FIRE's letter on Rumble's behalf, not on mine, and I wasn't involved in its drafting; but I thought this was an important controversy, which was worth noting.
UPDATE: See also FIRE's press release discussing this.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why so can I, or so can any man. But will they come when you do call for them?
- Shakespeare, Henry IV Part I.
If the spirits don’t have to come, does calling for them create Article III standing? Inquiring minds want to know.
Dear NY AG,
In response to your demands of the 12th, we intend to ignore calls by fascists to restrict free speech.
Sincerely,
The Web.
(if only - - - - - - )
I would recommend a more polite form of response, but otherwise yes. Sending over lots of paperwork is also a great way to comply with nonsense.
While the idea of tying them up sorting through the pile is enticing, I'd also be concerned that facial compliance up front might make opposition more difficult down the road once they figure out they didn't get anything meaningful and dial up the pressure.
Any lawyer knows - or should know - how to comply with a request while preserving the right to challenge it later. But the goal is always to be able to claim that you're very concerned about whatever it is that the regulator is concerned about (when expressed at a suitably high level, of course), and are working constructively with the regulator to resolve any issues. The press release writes itself.
In this case any social media platform would agree, at a high level, that they'd prefer to have less misinformation. Which is why they all have terms of service that allow them to combat misinformation. And so they should all be able to issue a press release along the lines of:
"We are very concerned about the situation in the Middle East. Our platform aspires to be a place where people exchange facts and opinions, to debate the important issues of our time. The present conflict is clearly one of those issues. It is regrettable that there are those who are seeking to manipulate the debate by spreading misinformation. We are just as concerned about that as the New York Attorney-General is, and are working constructively with the AG's office to resolve this issue as much as possible."
I know where you sit that ship has sailed, but here it hasn't quite yet and so in my view there's no call at all to legitimize the purported regulators even implicitly.
Again, not a position I would take as a PR/misdirection move because of clear and obvious potential for blowback down the road. At that point, you've conceded you're a cocotte and the rest is just haggling over price.
From the platform's perspective, misinformation is a deterioration of the quality of their product. They're trying to end up with a product that isn't 4Chan or TrumpSocial.
Hence Youtube, for example, saying:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10834785?hl=en
That's all well and good. But the examples you gave were 1) truly false information that 2) "may pose a serious risk of egregious harm," and I know you know that these days "misinformation" is interpreted a lot more loosely than that, in both dimensions.
1. “None”
2. “None”
3. “If we get a court order.”
4. “None, such reports go straight to spam folder”
5. “None”
6. “None”
7. “None”
8. “We don’t.”
9. “Accessible, of course. America isn't in the EU.”
10. “No”
11. “Nobody, and none.”
That is basically what Elon Musk is doing. Which shows that he is a terrible businessman. Acting like a petulant child is fine for the comments section of your favourite legal blog, but it's not a smart way to run a company.
Twitter/X isn't a business project for Musk, like the cars and rockets. It's more a sort of social philanthropy. He'd love it if X made a profit, is probably working towards that end, but if the cost of making a profit is censoring it enough to make the left happy, it's just not worth it, there are already plenty of censored social media platforms.
"I spent $44 billion so I could spend even more on a charity!"
I mean ... okay!
If you look at some of the other stuff Musk has backed (Hyperloop I'm looking at you), then "I spent $44 billion so I could spend even more on a charity!” isn't necessarily that much of a stretch.
“Dear AG: Please accept this brief 50,000 page response to your demand letter. We sincerely hope it will both help to alleviate your concerns, as well as clearly, and succinctly explain our position.
Best Regards;
FIRE/Rumble”
He could just send her the entire database of government interference with Twitter historically. And say "Getting in bed with governmental authorities was more damaging than anything our commenters did"
Does the fake news about the Hamas lie about the explosion near the hospital count as prompting antisemitic violence? Reuters, NYT, WSJ, AP, WAPO, etc. all piled on with glee.
Okay. Stupid question that probably betrays how out of touch I am ...
From a letter sent by the New York Attorney General to "Google, Meta, X (formerly Twitter), TikTok, Reddit, and Rumble"
Rumble? What is that? Based on the name, I'm assuming it's a Grindr knockoff.
I was wondering the same thing, and I advise many of the others in one form or another.
Heh. Actually, it's Right Wing YouTube.
Huh. Who knew?
I have so many questions, but I probably don't want to know the answers!
Somewhat more objectively, it's a YouTube alternative that welcomes and hosts all comers across the political spectrum, but disproportionately attracts conservative content creators because they know they won't get suddenly and arbitrarily suspended/demonetized for viewpoints liberals would rather squelch than debate.
Somewhat more objectively
Neiporent has become such a mindless partisan tool that he had his capacity for rational objectivity surgically removed.
No, that IS more objective, because Rumble is not, in fact, an ideological mirror image of Youtube.
No, that IS more objective, because Rumble is not, in fact, an ideological mirror image of Youtube.
I'm not sure how that is a response to what I said.
Eh, I lost track of the nesting for a moment.
Rumble is what YouTube would be if YouTube were run by regular Americans.
YouTube content needs to get past those crazy white women who post videos of themselves screaming about the patriarchy. If insane white women and trans people can find a way to complain about a video, YouTube will censor it. Also if governments ask for something to be censored, YouTube censors it.
Which is pretty interesting when you consider that Rumble's founder, CEO, and largest shareholder is Canadian.
A country arguably in even greater need of censorship-resistant platforms than our own.
Rumble? What is that? Based on the name, I’m assuming it’s a Grindr knockoff.
Because entering "Rumble" and "social media" into an internet search engine was beyond your abilities?
The uncurated world can be a scary place.
Answering loki's question politely was evidently beyond yours, so...
Oh, excellent -- Jason is here to instruct us on the finer points of politeness in posting. Next up, a seance with Che Guevara and Pol Pot on the art of diplomatic relations.
Seems like grandstanding, but basically legal grandstanding. The NYAG can ask for the policies, which good faith platform actors are likely happy to describe. As to first amendment concerns, let's be frank -- many in this commentariat have never understood why the first amendment should ever have any exceptions whatsoever. But that's simply not the law. Asking how a platform deals with 1A-exempt calls/incitements to violence is a valid topic for law enforcement inquiry.
Under the current expansive reading of Section 230 (as I understand it from discussions here -- not my day job) where the platforms can't be liable for users' content even when they selectively curate, I don't understand what valid law enforcement activities would hinge on the answer to that question.
Just because the platform cannot be held liable for users' 1A-exempt posts does not mean it's not a valid topic for law enforcement to examine. Put another way, Section 230 is just a law. The government has a valid interest in evaluating Section 230's effect and whether the assumption that the platforms adequately self-police is a good one.
Analogy: Just because marijuana is decriminalized in a jurisdiction doesn't mean LE stops being interested in how marijuana use does or does not contribute to the public safety.
Then saying "We'll do what subpoenas require" should be more than sufficient.
It would be legally sufficient. It would also signal to investors that the company intends to maintain an adversarial relationship with regulators, which may affect the company's value (positively or negatively, depending on the investors, but I suspect most would disapprove due to risk-adversity).
Whether that makes the letter improper depends on your preferences on the scope of politics. On a libertarian site like this, naturally people consider it obviously bad. In the larger picture, it's similar to the activity that gave us the Hayes Code, various media rating systems, the organization that "voluntarily self-regulates" liquor advertising, and so forth. These things have been upheld in the past and have not led to any serious harm. It's possible that they've even been a net positive.
Repeating what I said to Martinned above, these ain't regulators. It's one federal prosecutor that, based on her track record to date, seems to be rather into a) power plays and b) big splashy moves that get her in front of microphones. Were I one of the targets, I think I'd sleep quite well at night not calibrating my corporate policy to her particular antics.
It's a state official, actually.
Right. I'll forthwith issue myself 40 lashes for overcrediting her.
What "investors"? You did know that Musk took Twitter private, right?
Google, Meta, and Rumble are all publicly traded.
Reddit is in the process of issuing an IPO.
TikTok has shareholders but only trades privately.
Sure, but X at least doesn't have to worry about stockholders.
You asked "what investors", in a post about six online platforms.
If you thought it was all about X then you were mistaken.
And the only one that's going to be inclined to not roll over and play dead is X.
I fully admit I focus on civil law, but I rather thought that prosecutors needed to have some rationale for knocking on your door and demanding information beyond just finding it academically interesting.
And even if not, what damikesc said. There are legal mechanisms for getting truly necessary information; sending sharply worded letters and then trumpeting them to the press is not one of them (and indeed seems to signal an understanding that there's not a tenable way to compel the information and is trying to substitute showboating/public shaming).
So your ideal response would be along the lines of:
"Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?"
I like it.
First, you have to define what those "1A-exempt calls" actually are. You can't just hand-waive it away with vague allegations about "materials that may incite violence". That is not even close to the threshold necessary to strip content of it's 1A protections.
And, by the way, if you want to make a law enforcement inquiry, do so directly against the author following proper procedures. This fishing expedition is not a proper law enforcement investigation.
Meanwhile, in France and Germany, steps are even more aggressive: WaPo reports "Schools in the German city-state of Berlin now have permission to ban 'any demonstrative behavior or expression of opinion that can be understood as advocating or approving the attacks against Israel,' Berlin’s Education Department informed schools Friday. Listed items include wearing a kaffiyeh, a map of Israel in the Palestinian colors, and the exclamation 'Free Palestine!'". Reuters has more at https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-germany-palestinian-supporters-say-they-struggle-be-heard-2023-10-19/
Truth remains the first casualty of war: censorship leads to mistrust and seldom produces the intended results.
It may surprise you, but antisemitism is a sensitive topic in Germany.
Germans were “sensitized” to the subject in the aftermath of the Holocaust, but they’ve been admitting a lot of immigrants who, to put it mildly, do not share this new sensitivity.
We'll see how well their belated attempts at censorship work. Better to have had fewer of these non-sensitized migrants in the first place.
But that goes to another part of modern German identity – a haven for refugees, even if they don’t technically qualify as refugees.
Syrian refugee persuaded Palestinian to murder German "Jew"
You let a bunch of Jew-hating savages into your country. How likely is it that, once they get done killing all the Jews, they'll instantly become model citizens? Not likely, I'd say.
So sensitive, they now have mass rallies advocating genocide of Jews, and people running around marking Jew-owned business and houses.
It's like... Germany, all over again.
And some of their locals firebombed a synagogue in Berlin the other night.
So sensitive that it became the canary in an entirely different coal mine, when they passed a law criminalizing Holocaust denial (as far as I know, the first law in a Western country to make "hate speech" criminal). I knew then that the crack in freedom of speech was real and threatening to travel.
Question, Professor: why isn’t there a motion before the judge for sanctions against the New York Attorney General for violating the inJunction order against her?
PS - If FIRE is incorporated as a NY non-profit, I strongly suggest that FIRE re-incorporate in a different state ASAP.
Pennsylvania, apparently, not New York.
A motion for sanctions is usually a last resort. Most sanctionable issues can be handled with a polite letter to the misbehaving party, wihch should get you a quick apology and a promise not to repeat the sanctionable conduct.
Most parties, yes. Letitia James, you have a better chance drawing blood from a stone.
The letter from FIRE gives AG James until the 20th to rescind the demand letters else "we will be required to file a motion with the district court to enforce the terms of the preliminary injunction and
stay of proceedings". See what happens after tomorrow.
Whether that motion would succeed is not clear. The FIRE letter argues that the AG's authority to ask these questions depends on the enjoined statute and therefore she isn't permitted to ask, but the court's opinion acknowledges that the statute contains investigative and enforcement provisions and the injunction is against enforcement. In addition, as the opinion recounts the office of the AG produced a report on its investigation of online platforms in connection with the Tops Friendly Markets shooting in Buffalo, publishing the report two months before any additional statutory authority to investigate was available.
Press freedom is still a thing. To pretend respect for tyrannical government interference with content is unwise.
Threatened platforms should announce contests with an eye to recruiting from contributors entertaining mockery of AG James. Offer generous cash awards for the winners, and promote the best contributions to the public.