The Republican Presidential Primary Debates So Far

Why the third, fourth, and fifth GOP debates ought to happen.

There have been two Republican presidential primary debates so far, and I think we have learned a lot from them.   But, the Trump-dominated Republican National Committee is thinking of canceling the third debate, and I think that would be a huge mistake!   Things are only now just getting going!

I think the debates thus far reveal that Nikki Haley is the most articulate, principled, and charismatic candidate in the current Republican primary field.  She has the maturity, vision, experience, and communication skills that are required to be a superb President and to beat Joe Biden.  Others have also done well in the debates, like Mike Pence and Tim Scott, but Nikki Haley is overall the winner.

The two big losers in the debates held thus far are Donald Trump, for not showing up, and Ron DeSantis who just does not have Nikki Haley's charisma and star power on stage.  Already, polls in New Hampshire and South Carolina are showing Nikki Haley pulling ahead of Ron DeSantis for second place behind Donald Trump.

This raises the question of whether Nikki Haley has what it takes to be a good President.  I know a lot about the presidency from having surveyed every Presidential Administration from George Washington through George W. Bush in my Yale University Press book:  The Unitary Executive: Presidential Power from Washington to Bush (2008). I think Nikki Haley would be a superb President both because of her past experience and because she is a true-blue Reagan Republican, like me, and unlike Donald Trump!

First, Haley served very successfully as the Governor of South Carolina from 2011 to 2017.  She has thus proved that she can be a chief executive by managing South Carolina's executive branch for six years.  This experience as a Governor is something that both former Presidents Trump and Obama lacked as the American people became painfully aware.  Haley knows how to run a large executive branch, and she has done so with great success.

Second, Nikki Haley is the only candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, other than former President Donald Trump, who has serious foreign policy experience.  Haley served as Ambassador to the United Nations for two years from 2017 to 2018.  At a time, when Russia has invaded Ukraine and China is threatening to invade Taiwan, we desperately need a President with foreign policy experience.

Trump's foreign policy "experience" is in signing a peace treaty with the Taliban and freeing thousands of their jailed members from U.S. overseas prisons so they could go on to topple the democratic government of Afghanistan.   If re-elected, Trump would ditch the almost 75 year old NATO Alliance supported by twelve prior American presidents from Harry Truman to Barack Obama -- all to help his pal Vladimir Putin who secretly paid for Trump's failures in the real estate industry.

During both of the two Republican presidential primary debates, Nikki Haley came across as seeming like the only adult in the room other than Mike Pence.  She memorably said of Vivek Ramaswamy that his lack of experience in foreign policy showed badly, and that "Every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber!"

Haley is the only one of the Republican candidates challenging Donald Trump for the Republican nomination who has a realistic chance of beating Trump for the nomination.

Ron DeSantis has seen his poll numbers crash despite spending much more money than all the other Trump alternatives put together.  He should accept the reality that his campaign has been a failure, and he should drop out and stop splitting the anti-Trump vote.

Sadly, former Vice President Mike Pence, who is a wonderful person and who was a hero on January 6, 2021, also has dismal poll numbers and no realistic shot at the nomination.  He, more than anyone else, knows why it is imperative to beat Trump, and he should put his country first and endorse Haley.  The debates reveal that Mike Pence is a wonderful and decent man, but they also reveal that he lacks the charisma to win a presidential election even against Joe Biden.

Former Governor Chris Christie's campaign has been premised on the idea that he is the only candidate who can attack Trump effectively.  So far, Haley's attack on Trump for spending too much money and contributing to our current inflation is much more biting than any attack made by Christie.  After the bridge-gate scandal, there is no way Christie is ever going to be elected President, nor should he be.

Christie is polling at abysmal numbers so far in every Republican state primary except for New Hampshire.  If he stays in the race at this point, he will only help Trump by splitting the anti-Trump vote in a State where Trump rarely polls over 40%.  Chris Christie is lying by staying in the Republican primary race, saying he wants to stop Trump, and then splitting the anti-Trump vote so that Trump will come out on top.

Senator Tim Scott has run an admirable, positive campaign, but he has not excelled in the debates, and his poll numbers are also quite low.  Scott lacks the experience Haley has as a former Governor and the foreign policy chops Haley has as a former U.N. Ambassador.

Vivek Ramaswamy is only 38 years old, and he has never held any elective office before.  His youth and inexperience show badly, and he is frankly an embarrassment.

Nikki Haley has a position on abortion that can win, she knows how to criticize Donald Trump's record without attacking him personally and alienating his voters, and she is the sort of center-right candidate who could win a presidential election.  Unlike Donald Trump, Haley has not been indicted four times, stripped of his control over his New York real estate, including the Trump Tower and his sons' homes, and she has not called for the killing of General Mark Milley, the outgoing Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Donald Trump is manifestly out of his mind at the age of 77, and he is no longer qualified to be President.  Now former President Trump is calling for canceling the third Republican presidential primary debate.  Gee, I wonder why?  Is it perhaps for the same reason he wanted to cancel the 2020 presidential election because of Covid?  Of course, Trump is worried that the debates are boosting Nikki Haley and in his usual cowardly way, he is trying to get the RNC not to hold any more of them.

Comments

[Longtobefree]

On the other hand:
https://thefederalist.com/2023/10/03/nikki-rodham-haley-the-hillary-clinton-of-the-gop/

[Joe_dallas]

anyone but trump

Pence would make good president, though his campaign style is not persuasive and he is tainted unfairly by being trumps VP

Desantis would be good president if for no other reason that cleaning up the swamp and stopping the wholesale movement to woke ideals.

christi is part of the swamp

Haley has some good foreign policy experience and certainly wouldnt fund a state sponsor of terrorism as obama and biden have done. Even chamberlian wasnt stupid enough to fund hitler's war machine unlike obama and biden

vivek - is not yet qualified and has adopted some far right ideas .

[Josh R]

Funding a state sponsor of terrorism? If you mean freeing up previously frozen Iranian assets in exchange for something else, that may or may not be good policy. But, it's not funding a state sponsor of terrorism.

[Joe_dallas]

yes it is -
do kid yourself - get a grip on reality

[Dr. Ed 2]

israel????

[Frank Drackman]

Keep telling yourself that, squeeze your nose, and fart, you might clear your mind.

[Ed Grinberg]

"De[S]antis would be good president if for no other reason tha[n] [...] and stopping the wholesale movement to woke ideals."
"[V]ivek – is not yet qualified and has adopted some far[-]right ideas."

You've got to make up your mind. You seem to be faulting one candidate for the very thing for which you praise another. For a year now, Democrats and the "mainstream" media have been screaming about DeSantis being a Nazi -- based on his attempts to "stop the wholesale movement to woke ideals." While I haven't watched the debates, I haven't heard of anything Mr. Ramaswamy has said that would make him any more of a "Nazi" than Gov. DeSantis.

[Joe_dallas]

Why the leftist fixation on labeling every republican presidential candidate a nazi

Nazi as in national socialist party. That is a progressive ideology , authoritian, censorship, conformity of opinion, group think. Its only projecting what exists on the left.

[Nige]

So now you're calling Ron DeSantis a progressive. Makes a kind of internal sense, I suppose.

[Joe_dallas]

Nige - its the progressive party that are the nazi's
You are part of it.

[Nige]

Yes, yes, the book banners and the guys targeting minorities and destroying universities and hating migrants have thoughts about who the real Nazis are.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

How often do you masturbate to photos of Liz Cheney?? Wtf??

[Martinned]

Exactly. Better play it safe and nominate a man.

[Ed Grinberg]

https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2022-02-18.html#05

[Noscitur a sociis]

So the criticism is, she seems mean, she worked for Boeing, and she is anti-Russia?

We could do a hell of a lot worse.

[Mr. Bumble]

Wake up, we have and he lives part time in The White House.

[Magister]

Leave Commander out of it.

[Martinned]

In the UK all the non-populists have been purged from the Tory Party. In the US there isn't really any way to do that, so you end up with a bunch of conservatives like prof. Calabresi who think they still belong to the GOP when in fact the GOP wouldn't cross the street to.... [well, you get the idea]

[Dr. Ed 2]

We don’t want another Reagan — we want a populist. We want another Andrew Jackson although Trump will do. (Assuming he’s still sane, and I’m not sure he is.)

Calabresi is a dinosaur from a bygone age, 19th Century populism has returned in part because of the excesses of the Reagan era.

I look at what is happening in Israel right now, and it wouldn’t be if Trump were President, Iran’s behind it, and you can see the evil axis of Russia & China preying on US weakness. What the Palestinians don’t understand is that this will be their King Phillip’s War — they may not wind up massacred the way the Indians were in the end, but their identity is OVER along with any hope for their own country.

The Saudis are going to have to answer for some of this as well.

And notice what we’re not seeing: Tanks.

Every other time Israel has been attacked, they did it with tanks. But not this time. This is what war in the 21st Century is going to look like — and we are nonchalantly letting millions of potential terrorists into our country...

[David Nieporent]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I don't want your points....

[Dan Schiavetta]

The debates remind me of Stalin-era Communist Party conferences where people like Voroshilov and Malenkov were angling to succeed Stalin but dare not criticize him for fear of appearing to challenge him. I've never seen anything like it. They're trying to convince primary voters not to vote for Trump while being very careful not to criticize him.

[NOVA Lawyer]

It is bizarre, isn't it? And, notably, neither Voroshilov or Malenkov were successful.

[ReaderY]

That’s an excellent description. And a really apt one.

[Longtobefree]

What I've learned from the reporting on the republican debates; the republicans are a sorry, confused lot, and the democrats will be declared the winner of the presidential contest,

But other than that, the joint press conferences called debates would benefit from actually debating a single topic per broadcast.
Say "social security is going broke and needs to drop all disability coverage".
Or "school operations should be at the state level, and the federal department of education abolished".
Or "no emergency proclamation should last more than 10 calendar days unless ratified exactly as issued by the legislature".
Let the candidates argue pro or con, but only side.

[Dan Schiavetta]

Probably none of them would know how to answer intelligently. Republicans don’t talk policy. They simple don’t have anyone like Obama, Warren or Hillary Clinton who are acknowledged experts (that the word “wonk” is thrown around like an insult tells you a lot about the state of politics these days).

[David Welker]

Hillary Clinton is an expert at putting her foot in her mouth. In the past with her "basket of deplorables" remark and just recently with her remark that "cult members" who support Trump may need "formal deprogramming."

This woman lost to Trump partially because she says stupid things, but unlike Trump, doesn't have the "star power and charisma" to make up for it. If Trump were to say the same thing, my sense is that people would say that is just Trump being Trump. But when Clinton says something whacky like that, it sounds more sinister.

I guess that is the burden of being seen as a more serious person. She wants to let it "hang out there." Hey, Trump is talking about how such and such general have gotten the death penalty in previous times of whatever. So Clinton is probably thinking she doesn't need to be as restrained and can "let loose." But she should know better. Precisely because she is seen as a more serious person, when she starts talking whacky, it is more damaging to her.

Overall, maybe it would be nice if all these political types just stopped being weirdos. Whether in imitation of or reaction to Trump or whatever.

[Joe_dallas]

Hillary is exact opposite of an expert. Instead of learning the lessons of bush's f/u'd in Iraq, she encourages a similar stunt in lybia and with the muslim brotherhood in egypt.

[Nige]

Don't remember any massive US invasion of Lybia based on faked intelligence.

[Estragon]

“who support Trump may need “formal deprogramming.”

People who are going out in public and laughing at the idea of a 80+ year old being struck in the head with a hammer in his own home need to get a grip.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Those people are no problem replacement is not solving. They will continue to be a diminishing problem.

[Frank Drackman]

Go "replace" yourself Jerry. On brisk October afternoons, do you ever miss the smell of Joe Pa's jock strap??

[Nige]

'This woman lost to Trump partially because she says stupid things,'

Not really. There was one 'stupid' thing. Trump said ten genuinely stupid things a day. Still does. You've latched onto something she just said and she's not running for anything. Meanwhile, she could answer policy questions, Trump needed someone to dumb briefings down for him and have them read them out to him. That's ok, Republicans aren't interested in policy any more and have contempt for anyone who is. We know.

[David Welker]

You didn’t get the part about her seeming to be a more serious person, and also a less charismatic person, and not being able to get away with it for that reason.

Clinton presents herself as a more serious and thoughtful person. Which is why when she goes off the rails, it damages her more than the same comment would if made by Trump.

Clinton defeated herself just as much as Trump defeated her. And you see, nearly 8 years later, she hasn’t learned a thing.

[Nige]

She is more serious and thoughtful, don't care about charisma, the massive asymmetrical standard of 'going off the rails' is laughable, and the single supposed example 'offended' people who were never going to vote for her anyway. 'She defeated herself' memory-holes so much shit that occurred before the election you must be amnesiac.

[David Welker]

“They wouldn’t have voted for me anyway.”

^

This is a great way to ensure your own irrelevance. Doubling down on stupid. Basically, a refusal to learn from mistakes.

[Nige]

Who? Clinton isn't running again. You know which loser is? The one that likes to call Democrats a cancer. Is being a cancer better or worse than being deplorable?

[David Welker]

Yeah, she isn’t running again. So why should she go out of her way to damage the Democratic brand by saying stupid things like “formal deprogramming” of so-called “cult members.”

She is making Dems look bad.

[Nige]

You’ve been waiting since 2016 for her to say something else, and you still have to twist it since it was obviously a joke, and now you’re trying to tie it in to the entire Democratic Party, while just this week Trump attacked judges, talked about executing a general and wants to shoot shoplifters out of hand.

[David Nieporent]

This woman lost to Trump partially because she says stupid things, but unlike Trump, doesn’t have the “star power and charisma” to make up for it.

Three million more people voted for Hillary than Trump.

[David Welker]

So? She needed more votes than she got. Why say stupid things that cause you to lose votes?

I can get the idea of expending political capital to do something important. But to do it to say people need “formal deprogramming” or to call people “deplorables” is just a really stupid reason.

An unforced error.

[Frank Drackman]

What the fuck is Poke-a-hontas an expert in?? Native Amurican culture?? (Expert in "appropriating" it maybe)
I notice you didn't list Parkinsonian Joe or Common-Law Harris-Brown as "Policy Experts", you're honest at least

Frank

[Josh R]

I think the reporting endorses the narrative that the debates are a mess because of Trump's dominance. But, I don't think the reporting has concluded Trump can't win in November.

[bernard11]

You're dreaming, ltbf.

I quit watching any of these "debates" years ago. They are all nonsense, with participants mostly just shouting talking points at each other or trying to score gotchas.

That's true whether there are six candidates or two.

[Commenter_XY]

Watching the process play out makes one long for those proverbial, smoke filled rooms where party bosses picked the nominee. 🙂

[David Welker]

Hmm... I thought Haley did alright in the first debate. I didn't finish watching the second debate.

For someone who is against Trump, I think Calabresi's criticism of DeSantis for lacking "charisma and star power" is on the superficial side. Trump shows arguably has too much "charisma and star power." So much so that it seems to "make up" for his many deficiencies in the minds of many people.

Before he ran for President, I didn't take Trump seriously. And I am not sure I do. I don't know if I like "charisma and star power." I am not going to overreact to it, but I actually lean against it a little bit. I would like to see politicians making more intellectual appeals and fewer emotional appeals.

[Joe_dallas]

Welker - "would like to see politicians making more intellectual appeals and fewer emotional appeals."

Pence comes across as the most serious candidate, the most knowledgable, better wisdom, common sense etc. Unfortunately no charisma and tainted unfairly for being Trumps VP.

[Martinned]

What do you mean "unfairly"? Having agreed in the past to serve in the Trump administration should count against any politician, because it shows a willingness to put personal ambition before the good of the country. That is true for the former US ambassador to the United Nations too, of course.

[Mr. Bumble]

So that eliminates Halley.

[nobody 2]

Plus he's stated openly that he cares deeply about the Ukraine war and doesn't care at all about Americans, so he's clearly acceptable to the establishment.

[Mr. Bumble]

...but he loves his wife and has never cheated on her.

[Frank Drackman]

what a freak!!! Not a normal well adjusted couple like Pete Booty-Judge/Chasten (And why is it "Chasten Booty-Judge" and not "Pete Glezman"?) buying black market babies.

Frank

[SRG2]

but he loves his wife and has never cheated on her
with another woman

[Frank Drackman]

I get it! He's a Fag! Lets get some "enforcers" to beat him to death like they did with Vito on "The Sopranos"!

[Social Justice is neither]

Pence it tainted as the Uniparty shill by the actions of Pence. He has the popularity of Liz Cheney in the GOP and less personality that a TTS program going through a press statement.

[David Nieporent]

This is an odd usage of "unfairly." He did the right thing on J6, but crediting him for that is like a participation trophy — and he enabled Trump for 4½ years before that.

[Mr. Bumble]

So when will we be seeing the Democrat debates?

[Dr. Ed 2]

RFK2 at CPAC.

[Frank Drackman]

Maybe this fall if one of Parkinsonian Joe's aneurysm clips fail (they're basically Titanium staples)
and I'd actually watch a Common-Law Harris, Calvin Loathsome debate.

Frank

[Moderation4ever]

Where were the Republican debates in 2020? Incumbent Presidents rarely if ever debate for the primary.

[Frank Drackman]

Who was "45" gonna debate? himself?

[David Nieporent]

So when will we be seeing the Democrat debates?

No incumbent president has ever debated a primary challenger.

[Noscitur a sociis]

Plus he’s stated openly that he … doesn’t care at all about Americans

When did he say that? I missed the story.

[Mr. Bumble]

Implied by his unrestricted support for Ukraine at the expense of the deeply in debt America.

[Nige]

'Implied.' There is no moral argument for not supporting Ukraine, so this is the completely fabricated angle of attack?

[Mr. Bumble]

So you'll be supporting unrestricted aid to Israel.

[Nige]

Would unrestricted aid to Israel be at the expense of a deeply in debt America?

[Mr. Bumble]

Yes it would, pretzel boy, and I didn't make a claim in supporting it.
Would it be "moral" in the same way you think unrestricted aid to Ukraine is?

[Dr. Ed 2]

The difference is that Israel is a little bit less crooked, most of the aid will actually go to the IDF.

[Nige]

Of course it wouldn't. But that would require nuanced foreign policy analysis and I'm sensing you ain't interested in that.

[nobody 2]

Tucker Carlson interviewed all the Republican candidates. Pence was going on in the standard establishment way about how Biden wasn't trying to start World War 3 hard enough, and if he were elected he'd do even more. Carlson interrupted his stock politician routine with a long list of the problems that regular Americans were facing, and asked "Where's the concern for the United States in that?" Pence (who was clearly thrown by a journalist not following the script) replied, "That's not my concern."

[Noscitur a sociis]

Are you sure that’s all he said? Are you sure he didn’t say something like,

Well that’s not my concern, Tucker. I’ve heard that routine from you before, but that’s not my concern.

I’m running for president of the United States because I think this country is in a lot of trouble. I think Joe Biden has weakened America at home and abroad. And as president of the United States we’re going to restore law and order in our cities, we’re going to secure our border, we’re going to get this economy moving again, and we’re going to make sure that we have men and women on our courts at every level that will stand for the right to life and defend all the God given liberties enshrined in our constitution.

Anybody that says that we can’t be the leader of the free world and solve our problems at home has a pretty small view of the greatest nation on earth. We can do both. And as president of the United States we will secure our border we will support our military we will revive our economy and stand by our values and we will also lead the world for freedom under my administration.

[Dan Schiavetta]

A lot of words but no substance in his response.

[Nige]

'a long list of the problems that regular Americans were facing'

Does Carlson or anyone else have a reason why the things on this list aren't each the focus of prolonged policy discussion by right-wing media and Republican candidates, rather than reduced to being an anti-Ukraine gotcha?

[David Nieporent]

Ding ding ding. None of the people saying, "How can we send money to Ukraine¹ when there are all these problems at home?" want to do anything about any problems at home, other than starting a war with Mexico.

¹N.B. We are not sending money to Ukraine; we are sending military supplies to Ukraine.

[Mr. Bumble]

...and of course military supplies don't cost money. Each 155mm shell that we send to Ukraine costs just under $3,000 and they use them by the thousands. So many that we are now running short and are looking to procure 100,000/month by 2025.

[Dr. Ed 2]

And we are raiding stockpiles stored in Israel....

[Estragon]

Do you think that also cracking jokes about an 80+ year old being struck in the head with a hammer in his own home would help or hurt Nikki Haley with Republican primary voters? What about her condemning such comments?

[Mr. Bumble]

Jill hit Joe with a hammer?

[Estragon]

Explain it to me. Why is it funny? An 80+ year old man— who you knew nothing about a few months ago and still know nothing about other than who he’s married to— was assaulted in the entryway of his own home

[Dan Schiavetta]

The crowd laughed at this.

I call this behavior “deplorable”.

[Frank Drackman]

Paul Pelosi's chronic drunk driving?? Haven't you heard? Alcoholism's a "Disability"

[Happy Miser]

"Mr. Bumble" is an internet troll. He is trying to elicit a reaction from you.

[Dan Schiavetta]

I muted him some time ago.

[Mr. Bumble]

Thank you captsnowflake.

[Nige]

Which is to say, a Trump supporter.

[Frank Drackman]

Because it was his gay lover.
and man, talk about the "Odd" Couple

[Frank Drackman]

No, Paul Pelosi's gigolo did, but at least Paul won't be getting any more DUI's anytime soon (I Kid Paul Pelosi!!!)

[Estragon]

Yes, frank, we know you think it’s funny. In fact, you were first to joke about it in this very space. You are a wonderful, well adjusted person.

[Joe_dallas]

Welker - "would like to see politicians making more intellectual appeals and fewer emotional appeals."

Pence comes across as the most serious candidate, the most knowledgable, better wisdom, common sense etc. Unfortunately no charisma and tainted unfairly for being Trumps VP.

[Ghost of Patrick Henry]

I hope Predident Trump sues you and Reason for defamation. You have proof of Putin money to Trump, disclose it, as a public service. Otherwise, get out your checkbook.

[Estragon]

“Trump sues you and Reason for defamation”

Oh my lord I hope that happens!!! Fingers crossed!!!

[Estragon]

“Predident“

Please update your chat software

[Frank Drackman]

Please get a life.
Seriously, you're busting balls for typos? It's like when Parkinsonian Joe calls an Adult Black Man "Boy", just an honest mistake
or Dementia, hard to tell in the early stages

Frank

[Estragon]

This is pretty rich coming from you. I would have let it slide except for the idiotic defamation comment.

[Mr. Bumble]

Who was "defamed"?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Like most deplorable hopes, that one is doomed.

[David Nieporent]

You want him to file a frivolous lawsuit against Reason? Why?

[Doug Heffernan]

I'm Nikki Haley and I approve this message.

[Frank Drackman]

Nikki Glaser, Nicky Hilton, or even Nicky from "Goodfellas" would be better.

[Happy Miser]

"Basket of Deplorables" is an excellent example of the right-wing media machine making the most out of an offhand comment. It's also an excellent example of the butt-hurt (Trump pussies) felt by the commenters here on Reason.

Trump is a disgusting fat piece of shit. He's literally orange and has piss-colored cotton candy for hair and weighs 350 pounds.

He's a loser's loser. It's amazing that "real men" idolize such a cunt. Lol. Losers.

[Mr. Bumble]

Well another scatological troll. Just what the comments have been lacking.

[Frank Drackman]

Funny, you don't sound "Happy" (If I was a "Miser" I wouldn't be happy either, it's the root of the Latin word for "Miserable")
That "Basket of Deplorables" crack also lost the erection for Hilary Rodman (lots of lost erections with Hilary)
Not so much her words, but the annoying/grating way she said them "Homo-fobiccccccccck....."
I mean besides her taking Michigan and Wisconsin for granted.
and as a professional Gas-Passer, I'm good at estimating weights, and "45"'s legitimately in the 230lb range, (Hilary Rodman's an easy 180, looks are deceiving in XXs' they hide it in the legs and Mons)
OK, you think "45" ways 350lbs, "Basket of Deplorables" didn't lose the erections, and that "45" won't be "47", that's why they
play the games,
I mean have the erections,

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

I don’t care what he weighs, arsehole.

NUKE GAZA!!!

[Dr. Ed 2]

Notice the secondary explosions triggered by the building collapse.
That looks to me like rockets that hadn’t been fired yet...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24294941/

[Frank Drackman]

That's like removing a metastatic nodule in the liver and not treating the source of the Cancer. Here's my "Mideast Peace Plan"

Hydrogen Bombs dropped on Terror-ann, Qom, Mashhad, Isfahan, Karaj, Tabriz, Shiraz, Ahvaz (My "Strategy"?? "I'll take Iranian cities over 1 million population" Alex)
Ear-ron's been wanting a Hydrogen bomb for 40 years, lets give them a few.
And my "Peace Offer"??
"Nothing", won't even contribute to the clean up/decontamination.
They're not building those rockets in Gaza.

Frank "Peace-Freak"

[Mr. Bumble]

Well, so much for Jimmy Carter's Peace Prize. Will he return it before he meets up with the Shah?

[Dr. Ed 2]

I'd much rather nuke their nuke program but they now have much of it underground. And then go for broke and just nuke Mecca.

[Nige]

Dr Ed thinks it's September 2001 again.

[Dr. Ed 2]

In many ways, it is.

[Magister]

It's always September 2001 for Dr. Ed 2, except when it's time for a civil war.

[Nige]

Better fake up some intelligence and start a ruinous war, then.

[Frank Drackman]

Dammit, you got there first.
It's just like 9-11 except Israel will be advised to react "Proportionately"
You know, like the US did.

Frank "Save Gas, Burn Arabs"

[David Welker]

Off-hand comment?

Yeah, if you are going to insult millions of voters in an careless “off-hand” comment you shouldn’t be surprised when you lose a winnable election.

Clinton should be smart enough to not say stupid things. Apparently, she was not and is not.

Pretty much Hillary’s biggest life accomplishment is losing a winnable election to Trump due to a total lack of discipline regarding both her comments and classified documents.

I think that people hold Trump to a lower standard because he seems more like an entertainer. Clinton should have played a role more close to her persona.

[Nige]

The only people who went out of their way to be insulted by that comment were never going to vote for her anyway. But oh the victimhood!

[David Welker]

You don’t seem to get that people don’t like to be judged by a politician but would rather be judging politicians.

It is like, who does she think she is?

[Nige]

As opposed to voting for a politician who's up before a judge. Several judges.

Clinton was so prone to mis-speaking that you're still trying to get mileage out of the exact same comment as in 2016. Trump just said Democrats want to kill babies after they're born. Get a grip.

[David Welker]

When it comes down to it, I think people would rather vote for a politician who is judged rather than one who judges them.

Voters like to feel like they are in charge.

[Nige]

That's mighty sober analysis given that lots of Trump voters think he was sent by God to do His work on Earth.

[David Welker]

Complaining about Trump voters isn’t going to win elections.

This woman is reckless and damaging to the causes she claims to care about.

So dumb. And her arrogance came through with her reckless handling of classified documents as Secretary of State and her assumption that the rules didn’t apply to her.

[Happy Miser]

You should apply your excellent standards to Trump. lol. You are dumb.

[Nige]

She's not trying to win an election.

Man, wait'll you find out what Trump, who is trying to win an election, did.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I think that people hold Trump to a lower standard

Trump fans adore a lower standard, mostly because they tend to be poorly educated, roundly bigoted (racist, misogynistic, Islamophobic, homophobic, antisemitic, xenophobic,etc.), superstitious, obsolete, rural hayseeds.

[Frank Drackman]

Wow, who would think Jerry Sandusky would "Sterotype much"???
No wonder Penn State almost always had White QB's, Slow, Plodding White Offensive Lineman, leaving the Knee-Grows to play the "Skill" Positions (except for kicking, what is this Aversion African Amuricans have to kicking a Prolate Spheroid?)
and OK, a few National Championships, but umm, seems like they've been "Replaced" in the last 30 years by their...

"Bettors"

Frank

[Currentsitguy]

Like touching a hot stove over and over because you can't learn, career professional politicians of any party are why we are in the mess we are. I've not bothered to watch or read about any of the debates because the very fact of all of the candidates being career politicians disqualifies them out the gate. I have accordingly dismissed them out of hand.

[Mr. Bumble]

Well to be fair, of those who have participated in the debates so far; Hurd is a Governor but hardly a career politician and Vjayjay Ramalamadingdong isn't a pol (what's with that Jimmy Neutron hair style?).

[Frank Drackman]

Get it right! it's Vivi-section Rama-Swami

[Currentsitguy]

And in all fairness I haven't yet discounted Vivek for that very reason.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I'll believe that rural, religious, poorly educated bigots will vote for Vivek Ramaswamy when I see it.

[Currentsitguy]

I suspect any innate prejudice is greatly outweighed by their white, hot hatred for all politicians. Any time we go to our local hole-in-the-wall country dive I hear about very little else.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Disaffected hayseeds stranded in the can't-keep-up backwaters seem to resent just about everyone who is successful -- in addition to being gape-jawed, superstition-addled bigots.

[Frank Drackman]

C'mon "Coach" like your favorite Pennsylvanian raised POTUS once said (during his amazingly (Un) Successful 2008 cam-pain
“You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.”
And your (current) US Senator S-S-S-S-S-S-t-t-t-t-uttering John Fetterman, certainly dresses the part of a rural, religious, poorly ed-jew-ma-cated Slack Jaw (I know! it's the Stroke! and the "Depression")
Frank

[Life of Brian]

Maybe this doesn't escape your definition of a professional politician, but in fairness DeSantis has about as much career experience outside politics as he does in it -- roughly a decade of each. I could be wrong, but I don't think he's been absorbed into the system yet.

[Moderation4ever]

I think Nicki Hailey is the best candidate the Republicans have at this time. I also suspect that there is a large amount of misogyny in the Republican party and that will keep her from ever winning.

[Mr. Bumble]

Of course you do. Now tell us about the Democrat candidates.

[Purple Martin]

You mean the people who nominated a woman?

Or did you have some other point you were trying to make, entirely unrelated to the comment you replied to.

[David Nieporent]

Democratic candidates, you illiterate troll.

[Dr. Ed 2]

She is a RINO --- we don't need RINOS....

[David Nieporent]

In what way is she a RINO?

[NOVA Lawyer]

“I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.” – Calabresi

You, sir, are part of the problem. You invited this madness into the party and, even now, you are unwilling to reckon with the damage you have done and the way to undo it. Of course, you write an endorsement of Nikki Haley, a Trump apologist who slavishly carried his water and who, even now, refuses to take any principled stand against him and what he has wrought. She is only willing to criticize the objectively undeniable and embarrassing Trump spending spree, but endorsed him in 2020 and has openly said she would support him in 2024 even if he is convicted of multiple felonies.

Surely, you want better character than that. You can’t be anti-Trump and anti-Biden (or, if something unexpected happens-whoever runs as the Democratic nominee). The GOP is owned by Trump and as long as leading contenders like DeSantis and Haley are unwilling to condemn Trump in stark terms, and as long as commentators like Calabresi continue to support Trump apologists, no one who wants two responsible parties should give any support to the GOP.

But Calabresi demonstrates why that’s unlikely to happen. Those in position to make a difference (with a handful of notable exceptions like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Jeff Flake, etc.,) are too afraid for their political careers to actually say what needs to be said: Trumpism (not just Trump) must be defeated. And Trumpism is really an extension of Gingrich-Tea Party craziness that was welcomed and encouraged by party leaders. I’m quite concerned about what it will take to get the party back to some semblance of normalcy.

[Mr. Bumble]

“…like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Jeff Flake, etc.,) are too afraid for their political careers …” What political careers????

[Magister]

Those in position to make a difference (with a handful of notable exceptions like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Jeff Flake, etc.,) are too afraid for their political careers to actually say what needs to be said

Those are the exceptions, Bumble. That's why they don't have political careers any more.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I was at CPAC in 2010, the TEA Party was not welcomed.

You've got to understand that it's the populist base that owns the party and we'd really prefer to have schmucks like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, & Jeff Flake not in it.

I think the most interesting thing is that CPAC is all but dead now, the base doesn't attend anymore, and it isn't even in DC.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

The more interesting thing is that, after getting stomped by their betters for 50 years at the modern marketplace of ideas, some clingers actually still hope their obsolete, bigoted, superstition-addled thinking will prevail in the American culture war.

[Magister]

I was at CPAC in 2010, the TEA Party was not welcomed.

Was Dr. Ed 2 actually at CPAC in 2010?

By the time CPAC met again in February 2010, "Tea Party" was a household term and its stars were all over the CPAC stage.

Dick Armey of Texas, once the Republican majority leader in the House, was at CPAC with a Tea Party group called FreedomWorks. He had a message for his own party's current leaders, and for Washington as a whole:

"They must come to us and show they're worthy of our loyalty. We don't go to them."

https://www.npr.org/2015/02/25/388901979/remembering-when-the-tea-party-ignited-nationwide

[Dr. Ed 2]

Apparently you never saw the infamous cartoon with "GOP" written on the tea bag label -- the GOP establishment sought to co-opt the TEA party to its own ends.

And then they sabotaged the TEA Party's event by having a competing event with Ann Coulter after the conference.

It was there, in the hallways, that the split between what is now MAGA and the GOP started. The GOP wished to control the TEA Party and use it for GOP ends, and the TEA Party was not interested in that.

[Magister]

The TEA party was a movement within the Republican party, not a separate entity. And an astroturf movement.

[Noscitur a sociis]

Was Dr. Ed 2 actually at CPAC in 2010?

Do you really have to ask?

[David Nieporent]

But there was a cartoon!

[Dr. Ed 2]

One of the other things this has shown is that Iron Dome is not enough -- Israel needs to immediately fire at the source of rockets to suppress the firing of them, without warning.

[Magister]

Is that a call for preemptive first strikes?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Not exactly, although the case could be made for that.

What I am suggesting is flying CAPs and immediately firing at any launch site upon the launch of the first rocket which would take out the ones not yet launched, and the launch crew.

[David Nieporent]

Dr. Ed, in addition to being a janitor, is also a military expert. Why, there was something that didn't happen at a college in the 1980s in Massachusetts that absolutely proves his point.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If you only knew...

[Noscitur a sociis]

Dr. Ed,

I must once again implore you to stop helping.,

[Dr. Ed 2]

Fire trUCK YOU.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Let Dr. Ed have his fun. Everything he likes or proposes will fail.

[Kleppe]

"The two big losers in the debates held thus far are Donald Trump, for not showing up [...]"

lol, lmao.

[mydisplayname]

Even the devil deserves his due: we cannot omit, particularly on this date, the Abraham Accords (see https://www.state.gov/the-abraham-accords/ ) from the list of President Trump's long-lasting foreign policy achievements. Perhaps those in the academy have flushed the facts from their minds... but soldiers and voters have not yet succumbed to such misinformation.

It is also interesting to read that Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian President who is a scant seven years older than Joe Biden, is a fossil who embraces ideas well past their expiry. Are we to believe that fossilization would occur at some point during an additional Biden four-year term or only within the two subsequent years?

[mydisplayname]

Will Israeli hostages be released at 12:25 on 20-Jan-2025 (472 days from now and 25 minutes after the inauguration of Joe Biden's successor)? Iran held American hostages for only 444 days, releasing them 25 minutes after Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, so is the extra 28 days really related to the 50th anniversary of the surprise attack by Egypt and Syria in 1973?

[Frank Drackman]

Gotta respect how the Ear-Ronians stuck it to Jimmuh, making sure the jet didn't take off until after Ronaldus Magnus took the Oath or Orifice. Don't like their nearly 50 years of Terrorism, but they're pretty good judges of character.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Will Israeli hostages be released at 12:25 on 20-Jan-2025 (472 days from now and 25 minutes after the inauguration of Joe Biden’s successor)?

People who overestimate American support for Israel's right-wing assholes may think or hope so.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I don't think it will be that long before they are released -- Israel has already shut off the electricity to Gaza and shutting off the water is next, at which point there will be a strong incentive to release the hostages.

My guess is that Egypt will also point out that taking hostages is a violation of the Geneva Convention....

[ReaderY]

What possible use does the Republican Party have for devates? Debates are about issues, policies, ideas, reason. What in the world do any of these things have to do with the current Rwpublican Party.

It’s not like it matters who votes. What matters is who counts the votes. And that’s not going to be settled by any debates.