The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Why President Trump is an "Officer" who Can be Disqualified From Holding Public Office Under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment [Updated]
The opposing view is contrary to the original meaning, and leads to absurd conclusions.

There is an ongoing debate over whether Donald Trump should be disqualifed from holding public office in the future, under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which states that "No person" can hold any state or federal office if they had previously been "a member of Congress, or… an officer of the United States" or a state official, and then "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." Whatever other issues the Trump case raises, it seems obvious that the presidency is an "office…under the United States," and therefore that Trump can be disqualified, so long as he met the other requirements of Section 3. However, a number of prominent commentators and legal scholars claim otherwise, including former attorney general Michael Mukasey, Josh Blackman and Seth Barrett Tillman, and - most recently - Steve Calabresi.
Advocates of the claim that Trump is exempt from Section 3 don't deny that the presidency is an "office." They can't because the Constitution refers to it as such multiple times! Rather, they claim it is not an office "of the United States."
While these critics have impressive credentials, their argument is badly flawed. It has no basis in the original meaning of Section 3, and it leads to absurd conclusions.
The absurdity is clear. If the presidency is not covered by Section 3, that means a president who engaged in insurrection or aided the "enemies of the United States" is not disqualified from future office-holding even though almost any other federal official who did the same thing would be. Surely an insurrectionist who held the highest office in the land is much more of a menace to the republic than one who was merely a low-level federal bureaucrat. It makes no sense to disqualify the latter, but not the former. Indeed, it might be more logical to penalize insurrectionists who held high office more severely than those who held lower ones.
Similar absurdity arises if we apply this theory to the Impeachment Clause of Article I, which states that "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States" (emphasis added). As Blackman and Tillman have previously argued, their theory leads to the conclusion that the Senate can bar an impeached and convicted office-holder from lower federal executive offices, but not the presidency. Again, this is absurd. If such a person cannot be safely trusted to be a low-level bureaucrat, he surely cannot be trusted with the vastly greater power of the presidency.
Some try to square this circle by arguing the presidency is exempted because it is an elected office. But Section 3 specifically bars members of Congress, who are also elected. Given the Founding Fathers' deep suspicion of pure democracy, it is unlikely they would exempt the presidency from post-impeachment disqualification for that reason. And such reasoning is even less likely on the part of the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment. A big part of the reason for enacting Section 3 in the first place was the fear that southern white voters in ex-Confederate states would be motivated to elect ex-Confederate insurrectionists.
Both Section 3 and post-impeachment disqualification are limitations on democracy, intended to prevent voters from choosing candidates who are a threat to the constitutional order, and ultimately to liberal democracy itself. In this respect, they are similar to other democracy-protecting limitations on democracy included in the Constitution and in the laws of other liberal democratic states.
Given the absurd consequences of the idea that the president is exempt from Section 3, proponents of that theory bear a very heavy burden of proof. Longstanding rules of legal interpretation - and common sense - disfavor absurd results, at least if there is a defensible non-absurd interpretation.
And here there pretty obviously is: the president is an "officer" no less than other executive branch officials, and therefore can be disqualified under Section 3. Similarly, impeached and convicted officers - including the president - can be barred by the Senate from holding the presidency in the future (as well as other offices).
This approach is also supported by the original meaning of Section 3. As Steve Calabresi admits, and Mark Graber shows in detail (here and here), the congressional drafters of the 14th Amendment routinely spoke of the presidency as an officer of or "under" the United States and gave no indication it was somehow exempt. Will Baude and Michael Stokes Paulsen provide additional evidence to this effect in their important article on Trump and Section 3, which jump-started this entire debate.
Standard originalist theory holds that the relevant original meaning is that understood at the time the provision in question was enacted. Even if, as Calabresi and others argue, the understanding of "under" was different in 1787, at the time the original Constitution was enacted, that cannot trump (or Trump!) contemporaneous evidence from the time of the enactment of Section 3 eighty years later.
Language usage changes over time, and the relevant usage (at least for originalists) is that at the time of enactment, not some earlier period. For example, the Guarantee Clause of Article IV refers to protecting states against "domestic violence." In the usage of the time that means protecting them against internal rebellion, not the kind of abuse in the household that "domestic violence" refers to today. But if, in 2023, we were to enact a constitutional amendment requiring states to combat "domestic violence," we would use the modern definition, unless there were strong evidence that the framers and ratifiers thought they were enacting the archaic one.
Perhaps things are different if the term "officer of the United States" is a legal term of art. Sometimes legal language assigns different meanings to words than ordinary language. But there is no evidence that, in 1868, "officer of the United States" was such a generally understood legal term of art. The drafters of the Amendment - many of them lawyers themselves - certainly did not see it that way.
If they did intend to exclude an insurrectionist president from the scope of Section 3, such a momentous - and ridiculous - distinction would surely have been noted and debated. The absence of any such debate is further indication that no such exception was made. It's a proverbial dog that didn't bark.
If we believe, as many originalists do, that constitutional text should be interpreted as understood by ordinary readers, rather than legal experts, the case against exclusion is even more overwhelming. No reasonable ordinary person would assume that the presidency is not an "office" included in the text of Section 3, or that an insurrectionist president should be treated more leniently than a low-level flunky who did the same thing.
Defenders of the exclusion theory mostly rely on inferences from the text of the 1787 Constitution to make their case. For reasons already noted, those inferences can't trump the text and original meaning of 1868. But even on their own terms, they are inadequate.
Calabresi summarizes one such inference:
The Commission Clause of Article II, Section 3 imposes a duty on the President: "he "shall" i.e. must "Commission all the Officers of the United States." (emphasis added). This is done by the President signing a document called a commission formally appointing executive and judicial branch officials to their offices. No President has ever, either before or after, the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment commissioned himself. Why? Because the President is not technically "an officer of the United States."
My answer is that the President does indeed "commission" himself. He does so by taking the oath of office required by the Constitution. Without that, he cannot take office, just like lower-level officers cannot do so without a commission issued by the president. The forms are different. But the substance is similar. Alternatively, we can plausibly interpret the Commission Clause as only applying to those officers whose positions are not already otherwise authorized by the Constitution. This strains the text; but it is less absurd than excluding the president from disqualification.
Calabresi also cites the Appointments Clause of Article II:
[T]he Appointments Clause of Article II: "[The President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law:". Here again the phrase: "Officer of the United States" is used to describe appointed persons and not elected persons like the Members of Congress or the President. The Appointments Clause thus bolsters the implication of the Commissions Clause. Presidents are not, technically, Officers of the United States" as that phrase is used as a legal term of art in the Constitution.
Here, we have an even more obvious response. The clause only covers those officers "whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for" (emphasis added). That of the president, of course, is provided for in the constitutional provisions under which he is chosen by the electoral college.
I don' think election and appointment are mutually exclusive terms here. Rather, election is one mechanism by which a person can be appointed. That's especially true if the election in question was not (as under the original Constitution) intended to be by the people as a whole, but by a small group of elites - the electoral college (chosen by state legislatures in ways that at that time were not required to be democratic). The Framers (wrongly, it turned out) expected the electors to exercise discretion rather than simply defer to the voters in their states.
"Appointment" by means of a vote conducted by a small elite group is a concept that makes linguistic sense. Indeed, we academics routinely use the term in that way when we refer to the "appointment" of new faculty members by a vote of the current faculty.
Finally, there is the Impeachment Clause:
It provides that "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Note that the President and Vice President are mentioned –alone and separately from – "all civil Officers of the United States."
Here again there is a compelling and simple response. The president and vice president are not purely "civil" officers. The president is also a military officer: the Constitution makes him commander-in-chief of the armed forces! The VP is less clearly military, but he succeeds to the military authority of the president if the latter dies, resigns, or is removed from office. Thus, he has a military role, as well. Separately listing the president and VP precludes claims that their mixed civil-military status exempts them from impeachment.
I don't claim my interpretations of these three provisions are incontestable. There is some textual ambiguity in all of them. But, textually, they are at least as plausible as the exclusionist alternative. And they should be preferred to the latter because they avoid ridiculous and absurd results. On top of that, they are more consistent with the original understanding of Section 3, and with the way a reasonable ordinary reader would read that provision.
Not everyone is an originalist, of course. I won't here go into the living constitution case against excluding the president, because it is fairly obvious: doing so excludes the holder of the very office that is likely to be most dangerous to the republic if it falls into the hands of an insurrectionist or an abettor thereof.
Finally, I fully recognize there are other objections to excluding Trump under Section 3 (e.g. - claims that he did not actually engage in or aid an insurrection). There are also pragmatic slippery slope concerns, some of which I addressed here. Some of these arguments are more weighty than the presidential exclusion theory. But we should at least clear the deck of the latter.
UPDATE: In the original version of this post, I erred in focusing on the phrase "office…under the United States" as opposed to "officer of the United States." I apologize for the mistake, which I have now corrected. But all the same points apply.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
There appears to be a typo in the fourth paragraph, which begins "The absurdity is clear". In the second sentence, should "is disqualified from future office-holding" actually be "is *not* disqualified..."?
There appears to be a typo in the fifth paragraph of not having been preceded by a "Read More" button.
Sanity returns.
Sanity returns?
How about sloppiness?
Ilya can’t even properly quote Section 3 when he makes his argument:
“There is an ongoing debate over whether Donald Trump should be disqualifed from holding public office in the future, under Section 3 states that "No person" can hold any state or federal office if they had previously held "any office, civil or military, underthe United States, or under any State" and then "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." .
What it actually says is “ who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature”.
Calabresi doesn’t even address the “office under the United States” clause.
Ilya should have closed with “Nevermind.”
For 30 years my sister was an officer of the United States Army.
Or maybe an officer under the United States Army?
In her commando days she would have said “shut the f**k up soldier, get behind me and follow!”
I see Ilya has fixed his mistake misquoting Section 3, but maybe he, or you could explain why 2 different phrases were used in the same sentence if they mean exactly the same thing.
Of course if you look below, you can see what Tillman thought the difference was, and Baude found convincing, at least until the implications became inconvenient.
< But Section 3 specifically bars members of Congress, who are also elected. Given the Founding Fathers' deep suspicion of pure democracy, it is unlikely they would exempt the presidency from post-impeachment disqualification
The founders specifically name "CONGRESS", why not just include President? (The Judiciary is exempt?) Maybe because they trusted the method of choosing the President was clearly NOT Democracy. But....Congress does have the power to toss out the EC votes, and elect the President by Vote of Congress. Like impeachment....Congress then answers to the people in two years.
No Virginia, there is no sanity clause.
I’ll leave Trump out of the discussion, and focus on Presidents in general.
The applicability of Sec. 3 to the President doesn’t depend on original intent; rather, the credibility of original intent depends on whether it reaches the obvious common-sense conclusion that Sec. 3 affects Presidents as much as postmasters. If original intent doesn’t reach that obvious result, then into the trash can of history goes original intent.
Now, I’d say that the same phrase should *generally* mean the same thing throughout the constitution, unless the result would be absurd, as in this situation.
And since ours is a republican (small r) Constitution, then if at all possible, legal interpretations undermining basic republican principles should be avoided. Giving Presidents a pass on conduct which would not be allowed in a postmaster inverts the republican principle that the most powerful officeholder(s) in a Republic need, if anything, to be watched with *more* “jealousy” than lower officers.
So since the language has enough wiggle-room to go either way – the insane way *or* the non-insane way – we should prefer the non-insane interpretation.
All this is separate from original intent, if by original intent you mean combing Congressional debates for discussion of the "officer" status of a President.
It seems quite republican to say that the will of the American people as a whole trumps that is Congress.
This is different from senators and representatives because they are chosen by people from one state who might still be irredentent insurrectionists.
This approach is quite logical. After all, George Washington was an insurrectionist.
George Washington's first election as President predated adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment by eight decades. And he never engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States.
He was however both an insurrectionist and rebel.
And he had a gigantic concensus he was a great guy and not a traitor, so it would never have been applied.
Unlike the current climate, where there's only a mild concensus, and that is driven by an impulse to hurt a political enemy. Indeed, the frantic nature revolves about an upcoming election, normal political hackery to use the power of government against a political opponent, no concensus whatsoever.
"But there is a concensus! Those opposed to him are opposed to him!", he tautologized.
Cool cool. He can't be President of the UK in that case.
And it would have been perfectly reasonably to disqualify George Washington from being president of the UK.
I don't think it's obvious or common-sense. It makes sense to me to exempt the president from this sort of loyalty test.
The whole country chooses the president. Why would we the people restrict our own choices?
The people don’t let themselves choose a foreign-born Pres, or one under 35, or one who hasn’t lived in the U. S. long enough.
Those are objective criteria. Whether Donald Trump has engaged in insurrection or "given aid or comfort to the enemies" of the United States (or maybe the Constitution? the antecedent of "thereof" is unclear) is a political question.
Lots of people would claim that leaders of the Democrat party give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States, perhaps counting giving billions of dollars to a terrorist government as an example. Does that disqualify those Democrat leaders from holding office?
Well, I’m not saying whether Trump did the things Sec. 3 condemns. I *have* suggested a uniform method for deciding Sec. 3 cases (a special court to consider cases against Democrats, Republicans, et. al.).
I’m just saying that Sec. 3 *exists* and applies to the assistant undersecretary for soybeans of the Agriculture department. If it applies to him, republican principles require that it apply to the President too.
I actually don’t think Sec. 3 is the best idea given the lack of specificity for enforcement procedures, allowing potential chaos. But there’s Section 3 anyway, right there in the Constitution, and we have to live with it. If the assistant undersecretary has to abide by it, so should the President.
What republican principles require that?
Congress already has to confirm the appointment of the assistant undersecretary for soybeans -- there's no logical problem in raising the threshold for that. It doesn't implicate separation-of-powers concerns like giving Congress the power to select the President would.
I don't see the need for a "special" court, when Section 3 lists acts which are crimes, and were crimes at the time it was written, and we already have courts for crimes. And if you look at the relevant statutes, they even now list disqualification from office among the resulting penalties!
If you think somebody committed insurrection, charge them with it. If you think somebody gave the nation's enemies aid and comfort, charge them with it.
Most of the controversy here derives from the determination to lower the threshold of proof and level of due process as low as possible.
To be reassuring, I doubt my idea will be adopted.
In 1870, IIRC, Congress provided for quo warranto actions, except if the case arose in Congress or a state legislature, in which case the relevant legislative house would make the decision. Not a criminal trial. But that law was repealed if I recall.
You're probably thinking of sections 14 and 15 of the Enforcement Act of 1870, which was indeed repealed in 1948. The wording of that law implies that the clause was not understood to cover the presidency or vice presidency (otherwise the US Attorney for the District of Columbia would have a massive conflict of interest on his hands).
There’s also evidence in Section 3 itself. If it applied to a president then why does it bother to expressly cover members of the Electoral College?
Also, Section 5 makes clear that the 14th is not self-executing. So for Section 3 to have any “teeth”, Congress must enact legislation enforcing it. Since that repeal in 1948 no such statute has existed.
And finally, Section 3 does not and cannot create an exception to due process. If you believe Trump took part in an insurrection, then charge and confict him of treason. Unless and until that happens he must be presumed innocent.
Well, in that link (thank you) I saw nothing saying the Pres or VP was exempt, though of course it put a heck of a lot of responsibility on the U. S. attorney for D. C.
And what if the local U. S. attorney is an insurrectionist? There’s a conflict of interest, but the U. S. attorney is indisputably an officer of the U. S.
There was a criminal provision after the civil provision, so once the offender was out of office there could be a prosecution.
So apparently this law allowed for civil *and* criminal proceedings, a bit different than what I originally remembered.
Perhaps the biggest problem with using a special court is determining who would be the judge(s) and how procedures would be different from our ordinary courts. Would it be a standing court, ready and waiting to rule on candidate and nominee qualifications every year? Would it only be convoked when there is a sufficiently serious dispute over qualifications? How would it maintain its legitimacy or enforce its rulings?
Just to be reassuring, I don't think they'll establish such a court.
It isn't a "political question"; it is a factual question. Yes, there would need to be a finding of fact at some stage, but it wouldn't (or shouldn't) be based on one's political affiliation.
If you can get the courts to agree that "aid or comfort" includes, e.g., visiting Cuba, then yes, the 14th Amendment could be used for the same purpose against those people. Happy now?
It's a political question to the extent that some people are trying to draw Donald Trump within the bounds of the language when he has not "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against" the US or "given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" (in the sense that "giving [] aid and comfort" is interpreted for the treason clause).
Do you propose that the only way to disqualify anyone under the Fourteenth Amendment is through a criminal conviction for insurrection, rebellion or treason? If not, why do you demand that the courts define the operative terms?
Obviously not.
Because that's who we always look to.
So it's not a political process, and also not a criminal process. Obviously! Absurd.
Perhaps it is an administrative law process.
Huh? You think courts only handle criminal matters, and not civil matters also?
No, I just thought you people were smarter than to suggest mere preponderance of evidence as the right standard for something this important. I guess I was wrong.
Apparently, you think it is ipse dixit absurd that preponderance is the standard. How about we wait and see (assuming some case gets to appeal)? It might be preponderance, it might be beyond a reasonable doubt, or it might be something else.
Michael P, the Fourteenth Amendment, § 3 is silent as to the applicable standard of proof. Do you have any authority as to what standard applies? (Citing Otto Yourazz is not authority.)
I guess you're wrong an awful lot. If a candidate were disqualified (or potentially so) as not being a natural born citizen, what legal standard would be applied to determine that? Not being a natural born citizen isn't a crime, so it could not be adjudicated in a criminal context in any case.
Also, civil courts sometimes apply the higher clear-and-convincing-evidence standard rather than a preponderance standard.
Just because you are too steeped in partisanship to handle factual questions objectively doesn’t mean the republic needs to do that as well.
Project harder, dude.
You forgot Ted Kennedy's attempts to sell out the US to the Soviets in the 80's.
It's the obvious couterargument, and a not-bad one. I think you could sketch out a distinction between a clause that defines the universe of candidates like "over 35" (general, predictable) versus a clause that purports to weed out individuals based on undesirable behavior (specific, unpredictable) and then say that the former make sense when applied to thr predidency and the latter do not.
I’m not saying Sec. 3 is really a good idea, at least not in the way it leaves enforcement vague (or leaves it up to the whims of Congress), but it sure is written that way – and the problems of difficulty-in-enforcement apply whether we’re talking about a Senator, a Presidential elector, a local police chief, an Assistant to the Deputy Undersecretary for Balkan Affairs in the State Department, the Vice President of the U. S., or the President of the U. S.
To the contrary, the problems of difficulty-of-enforcement aren't nearly as severe for positions other than President. It's not a problem at all for appointed positions, which leaves Congress. Congress is fully able to operate without a member or two if the controversy drags on, plus there's the additional possibility that the courts would just leave it to Congress to decide if its own members were eligible or not.
In fact, going back to something Michael Pichael said, the courts could stay out of it for all the other positions and treat enforcement of Section 3 as a political question. Hard to do that for the presidency.
I think it would be possible to pass a law or laws to catch Sec. 3 violators in the net, even the President.
Of course, then there’s the issue of the laws we have *now,* which make enforcement of Sec. 3 difficult for a whole slew of officers.
And there's the political reality that laws to rationalize the Sec. 3 enforcement process might (to put it mildly) not get enough consensus to pass.
So we end up with enforcement difficulties with more positions than just the Pres.
You could certainly make that argument, but that would not be a textual argument.
No, I would make a different textual argument. I was responding to Azilia's "it's just common sense" which is also not a textual argument.
It is indeed common sense, but I gave reasons for believing it to be common sense.
Sorry, but Professor Calabresi declared this article - and, indeed, any argument against his thesis - to be "impossible." So I'm afraid you'll have to take it down before a paradox destroys us all.
He also declared that usages that didn’t conform to the theory were just colloquial. Convenient.
Disqualified by whom?
Thanks, Ilya. Of course the other argument is absurd.
"What? I can't run for the Senate. Guess I'll run for President then."
The whole officer business is just some sort of "look how clever we are" nitpicking.
Well that’s the entire practice of law isn’t it?
You can’t very well be a lawyer, and especially not a law professor if you aren’t prepared to engage in some nitpicking.
Lawyers can make absurd arguments so long as they aren’t frivolous .
Everyone else can call it absurd though. So I’m not sure what kind of defense ‘lawyers can say it!’ is
An argumentative friend started law school at a mildly advanced age.
When he graduated a mutual friend commented, "This is perfect for Andy. He gets to pick nits for a living."
The true nitpickers seem to be Con Law professors. Do they really get paid for this useless BS?
TDS is a mental illness....
Admitting that you are powerless against your addiction to Trump is only step one of twelve.
Still, congratulations Ed on taking that first step.
You could not run for senate when the 14th amendment was ratified. The 17th amendment was a complete disaster for this nation. Do not really have a dog in this fight, but I do hate the 17th.
This will have to be resolved with a caged death match between Somin and Blackman. Two men who don't use Read More enter, one man who doesn't use Read More leaves.
Two men enter, one man leaves.
_Two_ men? I only count one.
What is a "man?"
A panda enters a blog, reads more and leaves.
This post repeatedly conflates "office" and "officer". The 1st sentence is egregiously bad and blatantly wrong. It deliberately quotes the wrong part of Section 3 to be misleading.
The argument from the other side is that the President is not an "Officer of the United States". Yet this entire post goes off about the weak-man version, whether the Presidency is an "Office under the United States," which is completely unnecessary for Section 3 to not apply here.
You miss the implication of the fact that section 3 uses the term “officer OF the United States” referring to the class of oathbreakers with could be excluded.
But a different term is used with a fairly detailed list of offices that oathbreakers could be excluded from, it uses the term “Offices UNDER the United States”.
Why would they use two different terms in the same sentence if they meant exactly the same thing?
Why would they use two different terms in the same sentence if they meant exactly the same thing?
Because language is never perfectly precise and people are never perfect at using language?
The simple explanation is that it never occurred to the people drafting the 14th Amendment that anyone would argue over whether the Presidency was covered by Section 3. So, they simply weren't careful enough with their word choices to forestall such arguments.
Somin is right. This whole argument is over an absurd result. Those that think that an insurrectionist former President isn't subject to Sect. 3 exclusion from being President again have a much higher burden to meet than those that are taking the non-absurd position. If "of" vs. "under" is the best that they've got, then they are still well within the realm of absurdity.
The simple explanation is that it never occurred to the people drafting the 14th Amendment that anyone would argue over whether the Presidency was covered by Section 3. So, they simply weren’t careful enough with their word choices to forestall such arguments.
There are only three branches of Govt.
Congress is named
The President is not named
SCOTUS is not named.
Maybe accept that two branches of govt were specifically excluded.
The executive branch is full of officers and officers under the United States, and judges and justices are often called "judicial officers" of the relevant government.
I think the better argument is that the sovereign people, not Congress, are entrusted to determine who should be President and who is qualified for that position.
So long as he or she is not too young, or was born in the wrong place, etc.
I think the better argument is that the sovereign people, not Congress, are entrusted to determine who should be President
The founders protected FROM direct election of the President. The winner does not necessarily get the most votes. The STATES, not the people elect the President. The States and not the people use to appoint the Senators. The House answered to the interest of the People, the Senate answered to the interest of STATE.
The 14th amendment would apply to congress exercising their power to reject the EC vote and hand the election....to the STATES Representatives.
No, that's not right. The electoral college, not the states, elects the president.
The STATES, not the people elect the President.
Each state must have a republican form of government, meaning that its government leaders are chosen by the people of that state to represent them. You can correctly argue that each state government, representing the people of that state, can choose almost any method it wants for how to select its Electors that will vote for President. But the people of each state still retain the ultimate authority.
The inherent elitism of how the federal and state governments were chosen under the original Constitution was relaxed and more direct authority was given to citizens through amendments and changes to practices within each state. No one is going to get significant support for going backwards in that regard. Citizens 18 years and older have a fundamental right to vote, with very few constitutional reasons to deny that right. These voters will choose their representatives and chief executive at the state level, vote directly for members of Congress, and vote for the Electors that will choose the President. And it has never been adjudicated in the courts, but "faithless electors" that vote differently than the state winner have only been a few protest votes for over a century, and thus the expectation of all voters is that their votes for President are what really matters, with the Electors just being there to formalize their choice.
The theories and constitutional loopholes that came out of the GOP side in 2020 only did so because they lost. People didn't vote the way that they wanted, so they started looking for ways to discard those results. I've seen the same thing happen over and over again in Florida and other states with their state constitutional amendments. Citizen initiated amendments to the Florida constitution that the state GOP didn't like end up being neutered as much as possible once the next legislative session starts.
There were a lot of complaints about many schools (especially schools in poor, urban areas) packing large numbers of kids in each class. The state GOP lost the arguments over whether it would improve public education in the state, and voters approved an amendment to limit class sizes to 25. But the Jeb Bush and the GOP controlled legislature didn't like that, so they started passing laws to implement class sizes in ways that made it not matter. Eventually, they ended up where it is now: Even though the Florida Constitution reads:
The maximum number of students who are assigned to each teacher who is teaching in public school classrooms for grades 9 through 12 does not exceed 25 students. (class sizes K-3: 18, 4-8: 22)
The legislature decided to take this exception and make it work the way they wanted it to:
The class size requirements of this subsection do not apply to extracurricular classes.
They just defined "extracurricular" to be any class not specifically required by name for all students. As it applies to high school, for instance: all students must take Biology 1, so Biology 1 classes are limited to 25. No other science classroom has a limit. 30 or more kids in a Chemistry classroom where they are expected to work with strong acids, bunsen burners, etc.? No problem. It's "extracurricular". Math has two courses with state tests they have to take, so those are limited to 25, but no other math class is. They all have to take U.S. History, so those classrooms are limited to 25, but no other social studies classes are. Only English 1-4 and Reading classes a student has to take because they aren't on grade level yet are limited in the ELA department.
This is one of the problems with government in the U.S. Our elected leaders only need to care about what we think and want to the extent that we get to the polls and pick them. What we want for individual policies only matters if polling research shows that it will affect people's choices in the general election. Otherwise, they do whatever the fuck they want. Or rather, they do whatever their campaign and PAC donors and lobbyists want them to do.
Really? This seems totally clear to me. Office is a different word than officer.
You are an officer of somthing. You could be an officer of the court, for example. You can't be an officer under the court.
An office exists under its charter.
"...election is one mechanism by which a person can be appointed..."
B.S. A restriction on appointments is 100% different than a restriction on voters. Elections represent the will of the voters. Appoints only represent the will of the appointer.
In original understanding, an election is not an, "appointment." Instead, it bestows, "the gift of office." Note, "office." Who holds, "office?" An officer.
“If such a person cannot be safely trusted to be a low-level bureaucrat, he surely cannot be trusted with the vastly greater power of the presidency.”
Trusted by who? The people or Congress?
Let’s run a little thought experiment here, say Congress decides to depose a president through impeachment, which of course is their right, but the people disagree and throw out most of congress at the next election.
Why would the constitution forbid the president from running for reelection if the people decided he shouldn’t have been removed?
If Congress hadn’t been replaced they could always impeach him again. It’s not like there is no remedy.
Somin has gone full Birther.
I suggest you read the Graber posts he links to.
None of that makes sense. "The people" have no say in whether the President is impeached and disqualified, only Congress does. The constitution would forbid the president from running for reelection because the Constitution says Congress has that power. If the people then vote all Congressmen out of office, it doesn't change that removal and disqualification at all. Since the Constitution doesn't consider the Presidency an office determined by vote of the people, your question is pointless.
Trusted by who? The Constitution, basically. Although also Congress, since the Constitution gives them the power to erase the article 3 disqualification for that individual.
The Congress no doubt has the power, per the Fourteenth Amendment, § 5, to reserve to itself the exclusive right to determine whether someone has engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States for purposes of § 3. Congress, however, has not done so.
"No doubt" is a rather convenient phrase, when used in relation to something which is not contained in the text, isn't it?
"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
The text seems to be missing anything about "reserving" and "exclusive rights". In fact, section 5 is just constitutional boilerplate. When it is interpreted to mean, "Congress may limit or ignore this Constitutional right as it sees fit", I am somewhat skeptical.
No doubt, if they write "absurd" a few more times, people will stop expecting them to provide coherent arguments for what they say.
""The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”"
The text seems to be missing anything about “reserving” and “exclusive rights”. In fact, section 5 is just constitutional boilerplate.
OTC, it quite clearly states , "The Congress shall have power..." Not a word about Secs of State of the various states or anyone else.
By that reasoning, are state statutes which implement the due process and equal protection guaranties of § 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment infirm according to § 5 because such measures have not been enacted by Congress?
No, because the states had a general police power from the beginning; their power does not derive from the federal constitution and in fact predates it. Congress does not have a general police power.
"It is clear that preservation of the integrity of the electoral process is a legitimate and valid state goal." Rosario v. Rockefeller, 410 U.S. 752, 761 (1973). A state's interest in the stability of its political system has been recognized as compelling. Storer v. Brown, 415 U.S. 724, 736 (1974). "Moreover, a State has an interest, if not a duty, to protect the integrity of its political processes from frivolous or fraudulent candidacies." Id., at 733, quoting Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972).
In Hassan v. Colorado, 495 F. App'x 947 (10th Cir. 2012), the Court of Appeals ruled against a naturalized citizen who wished to run for president, who sued after the Colorado Secretary of State informed him that his ineligibility for office precluded his placement on the ballot. Then-Judge Gorsuch opined, "[A] state's legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office."
States cannot impose additional restrictions, such as term limits, on its representatives in the federal government beyond those provided by the Constitution. U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U.S. 779 (1995). The Supreme Court there noted at footnote 2 that disqualification of a Member of Congress for having engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States "[is] part of the text of the Constitution[.]" Id., at 787, n.2.
Yes, that's what the boilerplate says. Well spotted!
Yes and no. As we observed, many congresspeople tremulously stood there and screetched how it was a purely political move, and so things like the 4th Amendment did not apply. Fair enough.
But political means precisely that The People will take care of business at the next election -- Congress risks this by activating that political move.
Absolutely, but that is a limitation from a pragmatic view of the politics, not a constitutional limitation.
Cool. Now do "shall not be infringed" because I've been feeling infringed for quite a while.
JFC, is there anything that doesn't make you think "Guns!!!"?
Sorry. That’s the Democrats who always think “GUNS”.
Unless you think Harvey Mosley is a Democrat, maybe save the dopey, and in this case not even superficially substantiated, whataboutism.
And children doing live fire drills at school.
We could also do the Fourth, Fifth, oh Hell, the whole Bill of Rights. Why does language mean what it say until that gives us a result you don't like?
Yes, we could do anything. What we were doing was the Fourteenth. Predictably, as per your gun monomania, you dragged it into the Second.
Ilya, nothing will convince people that the fix is in quite like disqualifying the top candidate for the WH on specious legal grounds.
Good job. Want to BOTH pour gas on the Constitution AND light it or just one or the other?
Anybody calling it an insurrection is a blithering idiot who cannot be taken seriously...oh wait, it's Ilya. Goes without saying.
“…nothing will convince people that the fix is in quite like disqualifying the top candidate for the WH on specious legal grounds.”
Well, currently, that describes both top candidates. Which one do you mean?
I'm unaware of anyone trying to disqualify Biden.
Keep up!
Sure, keep up. Biden is doing an excellent job of disqualifying himself every time he opens his mouth.
Anyone who says otherwise is a lyin' dog faced pony soldier.
See? Disqualification is automatic if you're a Democrat.
Who's attempted to remove Biden?
I mean, outside of the Democrats...
Anyone who considers following the text of the constitution "specious legal grounds" is a blithering idiot who cannot be taken seriously. And your comment is entirely misplaced anyway, since in this post he is only responding to the argument that the Presidency isn't an office under the United States.
I have to agree. This is will received about as well as Roe V Wade was for the Republicans.
Many people desperately don't want Trump re-elected for a number of reasons. However, if they continue this banana republic nonsense, those on the fence will cement behind him.
I would agree that the office of the President is covered by section 3.
The real question is who decides if someone should be disqualified and using what process? It can’t be legitimate to allow state officials politically opposed to Trump to decide to disqualify him on their mere say so.
Assuming a state official disqualifies Trump, there will be appeals that quickly reach SCOTUS.
"Assuming a state official disqualifies Trump, there will be appeals that quickly reach SCOTUS."
Not necessarily. SCOTUS jurisdiction to review state judgments extends only to final judgments or decrees rendered by the highest court of a State in which a decision could be had, per 28 U.S.C. § 1257(a). If a state official or judicial or administrative tribunal renders a judgment of disqualification, the length of time for review by the highest court of a State in which a decision could be had depends on that state's law. The state may, but need not, provide for expedited procedures.
Delays get the attention of the Supreme Court. Not saying it would necessarily, but throwing an anchor out of the mule dragging things forward and facetiously running out the clock to git 'im just might.
All federal courts, including SCOTUS, are courts of limited jurisdiction. The appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court is defined and limited by Congress. The only federal statute authorizing SCOTUS to review state court decisions is 28 U.S.C. § 1257(a), which requires a final judgment or decree rendered by the highest court of a State in which a decision could be had.
Congress theoretically could amend the statute or enact a new statute, but good luck getting that through both houses.
If I were a secretary of state considering whether to put Donald Trump’s name on my state’s Republican primary ballot, I would sue Trump in U. S. District Court for declaratory judgment pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 as to whether Trump is eligible to serve as president if elected. That would afford Trump a full measure of due process, and upon such judgment being rendered, the losing party could file a notice of appeal to the U. S. Court of Appeals and then petition SCOTUS for certiorari before judgment.
“[A] State has an interest, if not a duty, to protect the integrity of its political processes from frivolous or fraudulent candidacies.” Storer v. Brown, 415 U.S. 724, 733 (1974), quoting Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972). “[A] state’s legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office.” Hassan v. Colorado, 495 F. App’x 947 (10th Cir. 2012) (Gorsuch, J.).
I have little doubt SCOTUS will issue a temporary injunction preventing Trump from being removed from the ballot if it is clear the case won't reach SCOTUS until after the election, whether or not the case originated in state or federal court.
I have little doubt the Court would decline to disqualify Trump while he was in office--regardless of what the 14th Amendment says about his qualification. They just would not go there.
Better to adjudicate this before the election.
Indeed. That's why a secretary of state would be foolish to wait to disqualify Trump until a SCOTUS appeal could not be heard prior to the election.
"I have little doubt SCOTUS will issue a temporary injunction preventing Trump from being removed from the ballot if it is clear the case won’t reach SCOTUS until after the election, whether or not the case originated in state or federal court."
By what statute has Congress authorized SCOTUS to issue such an injunction as to proceedings in state courts? Please provide a specific citation.
Is a statute necessary beyond 28 U.S. Code § 1257 (granting appellate review)? Is there precedent, one way or the other?
I'm betting SCOTUS will find a way to issue the injunction (in the also unlikely, a state court does not).
Even when SCOTUS exercised its execrable power grab in Bush v. Gore, it was (twice) reviewing judgments of the Supreme Court of Florida.
The grant of SCOTUS jurisdiction to review state proceedings is confined in § 1257(a) to final judgments or decrees rendered by the highest court of a State in which a decision could be had. What is or is not a final judgment is sometimes litigated, but SCOTUS does not have "reachdown" jurisdiction to intervene in state proceedings that have not been presented to the state's court of last resort.
Appeals due process.
There should be due process before he can be disqualified.
The courts will almost certainly stay any decision to disqualify Trump until appeals are exhausted.
That… doesn't really make any sense, procedurally. A "decision to disqualify Trump" would most likely manifest as a decision that election officials don't have to put him on the ballot. Either a declaratory judgment by elections officials or a request for an injunction by Trump. What would one "stay" in that case?
What if an official disqualifies Biden right now?
Well I'm going to quote Buade's take on Tillman's explanation of the Officer terms.
First here is Baude's summation of Tillman's assertion of meaning of the two phrases used in section 3:
"Officer of the United States" - Appointed officers in the executive and judicial branches – subset of those holding “Office … under the United States”
"Office … under the United States" - All positions created, regularized, or defeasible by federal statute including (nonelected) legislative branch positions"
Then Baude says:
"Next time you confront a separation of powers problem or read through parts of the Constitution, keep Professor Tillman’s chart in hand. Suddenly, it will be hard to assume that the Constitution’s textual variations are meaningless. Indeed, Professor Tillman’s theory makes sense of patterns that most of us never saw. It brings order out of chaos. That is not to say that his position has been conclusively proven. But at this point, I think he has singlehandedly shifted the burden of proof.
That's Baude of course when he had no reason for preferring the terms to be anything other than accurate.
https://conlaw.jotwell.com/constitutional-officers-a-very-close-reading/
A burden of proof that Ilya's rather weak effort where he can't even properly quote Section 3, or restate Calabresi's argument fails.
I'm going to take my own advice that I routinely dole out to people who bitch about Josh's prolific postings, and just stop reading this endless stream of futile academic jousting.
There are plenty of real problems in the world that haven't suddenly gone away just because someone thought of a really clever way to package a virtual bill of attainder for one solitary human being.
Over and out.
The president is an officer for purposes of both halves of this section, but not because it would necessarily be absurd to make an exception, at least for eligibility to hold the office of president.
To the extent that there was an animating concern, it would have been to keep a subset of the people from choosing insurrectionists for office (only POTUS/VP are nationally elected), or insurrectionists from slipping into the appointed offices of the federal government (who would generally have been - and often were required to - be locally appointed. Furthermore, patronage was a big thing back then). Professor Somin furnishes no evidence that the people were animated by fear of their own power in adopting it. What the nation thought, not what people in Washington thought, is relevant.
The text’s prohibition applies to the holding of offices “under the United States, or under any State” If presidents are not officers “under the United States” – already a stretch – it is hard to see how governors are officers “under any State”. But this yields a blatant absurdity: Insurrectionists could hold governorships, thereby dominating not only their state’s civil executive apparatus, and wielding the state’s clemency, but also controlling the state’s militia. Such an absurd result precludes such an interpretation.
Whether the president is an “officer” elsewhere or not, he cannot sensibly be held so in this section of the constitution.
This is the same error as in the argument above, declaring something to be absurd without any particular evidence that it is.
Whether a good idea or not, it's hardly absurd to maintain that the people of the states can still choose the governor they want, subject to their own state laws, accountable to both their own states AND to federal laws that remain supreme.
It may also have been a step too far for to federalize that issue that's so core to state governance.
So far from being absurd, this result might have been particularly pragmatic, again, whether you or I may have preferred it or not.
I think it’s absurd to think that the authors of the 14th Amendment intended to block oath-breakers like Robert E. Lee from, say, serving in the cabinet or as a Justice, but it would have been perfectly okay for him to serve as President or be elected to Congress. The latter was one of the things Section 3 was supposed to prevent.
It's even more absurd to lump in Trump with actual insurrectionists like Robert E. Lee.
Maybe, it does seem extreme. But when parsing the words of the Constitution you should think about how it applied to the people of the time. Actually, John Breckinridge is a better example than Lee since he was actually VP under Buchanan and was elected to the Senate in 1860 (even though he was running for President???) He was expelled from the Senate because he had joined the Confederate Army hence was a traitor.
There was no doubt about Lee. With Trump, there is only one side screetching, "Git 'im, this is idea #467, it must work!"
The other side declines to view it as the same thing as Lee...because it isn't. It is standard political hackery against an opponent. A normal political opponent they've pulled out all the stops for for 6 years now, long preceding this incident.
'The other side declines to view it as the same thing as Lee…because'
they support his efforts to overthrow an election.
Attempting to steal an election is not normal political hackery.
There are many reasons I don't find it particularly absurd, but just to name two, such oath-breakers are ineligible to serve as Electors to choose the president, AND the president is under much more scrutiny and subject to impeachment based on his actions once his term begins.
There are already in place protections to prevent a president from misbehaving, so such further protection--and undermining of the election process--is not so needed.
Aren't they all also subject to impeachment?
But they aren't so front and center in the impeachment crosshairs.
The president is responsible for the entire executive branch, subject to impeachment for anything the branch does, a much larger sword of Damocles hanging over his head than a cabinet official may experience.
Maybe the Congress won't have time to scrutinize the behavior of every subordinate official, but they're definitely going to be watching the president.
So it's a matter of pragmatism to consider that difference and set law accordingly.
Actually, it has to be "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".
Robert E Lee was not blocked from being president, at least in theory. https://www.wsj.com/articles/robert-e-lee-could-have-been-president-law-donald-trump-election-2024-voters-candidate-law-299a2590
Who has suggested that it would have been okay for Robert E. Lee to serve in Congress? Congress only removed that disability in 1975 (the bill was introduced by Harry Byrd).
As Trump rises more and more in the polls look for the never Trumpers to ever more desperately justify disqualifying Trump from the ballot on a novel legal technicality that they would never apply to anyone else.
Which insurrectionists did they turn a blind eye to in the past?
Kamala Harris helped raise bail money for BLM/Antifa rioters who attacked government offices.
Or maybe Hilary Clinton who hired foreign spies to try and destroy a US president
And let's not forget Barack Obama who told a foreign leader to wait until after he was reelected and he could do more for that leader ( who after Obama was reelected invaded Crimea with zero consequences).
Yes, those are exactly the kinds of things the 14th Amendment was aimed it... I hope you aren't an Originalist!
Clinton couldn't have "hired foreign spies to try and destroy a US president", because Trump wasn't president at the time. (Almost as well-informed as the usual misunderstanding about what Joe Biden's job was in April 2017, when Hunter Biden was doing his Chinese deal...)
So because Trump was not yet sworn in yet her hiring foreign spies was acceptable?
Btw I notice you don't address the other two examples I gave.
And finally if Biden was selling out the USA in 2017 does it matter that he wasn't VPOTUS at the time?
These section 3 nuts are just like the birthers back during the Obama days. Floating out crazy ideas in order to disqualify someone they don't like.
Jan. 6
It's just your partisanship calling it crazy. I'm not sure it's correct, but applying section 3 to Trump is at least arguable. The position that Obama was not a natural born citizen was not an arguable position, it was fictional. Presenting the two as equal is ridiculous.
The argument that Obama was not born in Hawaii was absurd.
And quite popular among fans of the Volokh Conspiracy.
The Constitution and the birth cert proving Obama was not a citizen are equally fake.
It was a computer generated birth record of the kind that is all the rage now. I remember when birth certificates were printed from an image of the actual document signed by the doctors with a notary stamp and embossed. Not fake; but not intended to satisfy anyone looking to see what the actual documents said.
I believe Obama was born in Hawaii. It would not be hard to find witnesses to the birth or to his homecoming from the hospital.
Calling Profs Baude and Paulson basically birthers is showing what a partisan hack you are.
Have you ever written anything negative about MAGA? You are one of the most predictable posters on here.
Obama's own agent claimed Obama was born in Kenya, which is more factual basis than Hillary Clinton can claim for a lot of the theories her campaigns have pushed in attempts to disqualify her opponents.
Some bullshit sticks, to some people, anyway.
Obama probably allowed a myth of his being born in Kenya to spread as a way of making him more "exotic" when he was applying to Harvard Law School. It is small beer compared to many of the claims that Joe Biden has made.
"Obama's own agent" claimed no such thing.
Ilya is trying to prove that Trump is an Officer of the United States so he can be disqualified and he declares that the opposite position is absurd. Why? Because if the opposite position is true, Trump can’t be disqualified. Circular reasoning much?
Bingo.
I came here to say something along the same lines as I'm frustrated by the weakness of this argument, but you put it much more concisely.
Bingo? His comment is complete nonsense. Prof. Somin gives at least four reasons why the Presidency is an office under the United States, none of which are so Trump can be disqualified. Maybe put your blind partisanship aside and at least try to come to terms with the actual argument put forward.
Blind partisanship? Your prejudices are showing.
FWIW, No, I wish folks would knock off this legal stuff especially BECAUSE it's giving Trump more of a chance of being reelected. Stop doing things that get him more support.
Anyway, the article steps in it with its argument that the election would be absurd, therefore the disqualification must apply. That argument is backwards.
Other arguments are questionable for other reasons, but it's worth calling that particularly weak one for what it is.
Ilya is trying to prove that Trump is an Officer of the United States so he can be disqualified...
You are ascribing motivated reasoning to him as if you didn't read his final thoughts. He says explicitly that the question of whether he is an officer of the U.S. is separate from whether Trump is guilty of insurrection or should be disqualified. This article only addresses the officer debate and not the rest.
I've seen a few scholars now stressing this "the absurdity is clear" argument, but the argument is sadly unpersuasive to those who, like me, find the result a perfectly reasonable option, not absurd at all.
It turns into little more than the speaker complaining that the result isn't what they, personally, prefer, and it shows a bit of disconnect that the speaker would simply assume other options to be so obviously wrong that it will be clear to the audience.
I have listened to a couple of scholars now specifically to hear a debunking of this theory, but have been sadly disappointed by that particular argument.
(Also, even with this updated version of the article it's still playing fast and loose with things like "office of" vs "office under," a distinction which is core to the argument it's trying to address. Which in itself is a bad start, suggesting that the author doesn't have a firm understanding of the argument to be criticized.)
The OP is pretty long, maybe the argument isn’t the swift dismissal you think it is.
In fact I know it isn’t because I read it.
Also, it talks about absurd results, not absurd arguments. Those are different things.
The OP is still very long on rejecting an argument based on nakedly asserted absurdity.
The OP explains very clearly how the Tillman-Blackman position leads to absurd results. You may disagree, but there is no "nakedly asserted absurdity." Did you even read the OP?
Well no. The OP simply declares that the result is absurd without explanation. It asserts the absurdity to be clear instead of explaining it clearly.
That the OP doesn't explain--clearly or otherwise--how it leads to absurd results is the entire point I'm calling out.
Yep, OP made a number of arguments, but I wanted to call attention to this specific argument that I've seen repeatedly, but that is both unpersuasive and I'd say rather beneath the scholars I've seen presenting it.
The "clearly absurd" argument doesn't appeal to the many who don't find it clear, and folks making that argument don't seem to realize the way they're coming across, or they'd work to support their argument.
The post here is a great example of scholars putting the flawed argument front and center, which is a problem.
Wait, Somin claims the Vice President, with no military authority whatsoever, is a military officer, because he might assume the office of the president and this become one?
By that logic, the Secretary of Education (#16 in succession) is also a serving military officer. And of course, so is all of the House, because any of them might succeed the Speakership, and might then become President.
Combined with the sloppy use of terminology, this just shows as one of Somin's more hasty and less-thought out articles. He regularly misrepresents stuff in his immigration and housing articles, but is rarely just sloppy like this.
Sadly, he is often that sloppy. Note that he also misquoted the very Amendment he wrote about here.
Typo patrol is some lame ass shit,
God forbid someone bother to make sure they are accurate in quoting the material they're making an argument about!
What is your assessment of the level of scholarship exhibited daily at this blog (Today In Supreme Court History is a vivid example)?
a misquote is not a typo. Take Copy Editing 101
Pedantry is lame ass shit as well.
And wrong. A typo in a quote is still a typo. It was no substantive and anyone trying to argue it as a legit argument against the OP is bad and should feel bad.
Imagine using the exact words mattering in a law argument.
Whatever.
It absolutely was a substantial error since the argument he was looking to criticize hinged on that exact distinction.
Folks who want Trump on the ballot have an absurd counter-argument and a political counter-argument. The latter offers a show of rationality—that it would be catastrophic to political comity to disqualify such an enthusiastically-backed candidate as Trump. Problem is, that enthusiastic backing come from backers who love, "I am your retribution." That takes the rationality right out of it.
Worse, they believe Trump when he says, "I am your retribution".
"Nothing" is what they are to him.
Could it also be that a lot of those supporting Trump think that Biden has been a horrendous President, and by any realistic measure (the economy, foreign relations, military preparedness, etc), Trump did a much better job? Maybe the Biden supporters are the emotion driven ones?
Who gives a shit what they think? They tried to steal an election and still believe he won. Why shouldn't Biden voters be angry that they want another go?
So its rational to fully recognize, value, and respect democratic principles but only to the extent that you personally approve of the individuals that would vote a certain way?
That a number of "prominent commentators and legal scholars" have argued this absurdity demonstrates that there is nothing "prominent commentators and legal scholars" will not say, no "legal" nonsense they will not purvey, in order to gain their own selfish ends, almost as if the "law" were nothing more than sophisticated selfishness.
Harsh, but true.
Hence, Somin, the acknowledged Never Trumper, in his 2016 published opposition to Trump, and his continued enthusiastic support for LawFare here and their attacks on Trump, and his position.
So much easier to assert a motive than to actually engage with the argument made.
Somin claims to be a Libertarian, and yet wants to lock up Trump for his political opinions. Yep, Trump derangement syndrome.
None of the charges against Trump revolve around him having opinions.
This is an easily-resolved issue which does not involve the Judicial branch: simply convince two thirds of both house of Congress (or two thirds of the fifty states) that the Somin way is the right way and thereafter convince three fourths of the legislatures of the fifty several states of its correctness.
Deal?? Bet'ya can't!! So, instead of doing so, it is likely that the spoonful which embraces the flawed interpretation will prance into a courtroom and fiddle about until satisfied or defeated. History is likely to consider such a "battle against democracy" with the favor lauded upon Marshal Philippe Pétain and his government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOo1uhHb-jk&t=63s
If the Presidency is an office, then the President is an officer.
We really are done here. Language has to be read in context. When the Constitution is talking about “all the other officers” it means “all the other officers under him,” because the context is that there already is a President. Duh.
And just because you are a law professor of a former attorney general or a whatever, that doesn’t mean when you endorse clearly absurd arguments, we have to take you very seriously.
I don’t even accept that there is a very serious ambiguity here. It seems like an attempt to create an ambiguity. We see this in the 2nd Amendment too, where those who really do not like the 2nd Amendment try to turn the prefatory clause into a requirement or a scope limitation where the language clearly says that right belongs to the People.
I have zero sympathy for arguments like: “Oh, the People doesn’t really mean the People there” anymore than I have sympathy for an argument that “just because he holds an office doesn’t mean he isn’t an officer” or “maybe he is an officer, just not of the United States.”
Also, if the President isn’t an officer of the United States, what is he an officer of? Mars??? The World??? He isn’t an officer despite holding an office???
In general, if you have to twist yourself into knots to uphold a particular interpretation, you are probably doing it wrong. Especially for the Constitution, which was intentionally kept short so that it could be understood and debated by ordinary people who would then select people to represent them at ratifying conventions to accept or reject it.
I would say that the language isn’t perfect, but here, I won’t even concede that is the issue. Just look at the context and what is happening.
By the way, this is also my argument regarding Article V and why I find it extremely obnoxious for people to think that a 3/4ths supermajority of states can be cobbled together by combining the votes of the long dead with the living over a 200-hundred year period. That is an absurd sort of game that turns the ratification process into a game of “gotcha” rather than keeping it as it was clearly intended, which is a requirement to ensure there was something approaching a wide contemporaneous consensus before the Constitution could be amended.
You aren't dumb, so don't play dumb. You know what the 3/4ths requirement is intended to accomplish. It is supposed to require a supermajority, not a drip, drip, drip unrealized process of unintentionally adding ratifications and then a MERE 200 years later, you suddenly have a new amendment and on one say that coming. And you don't have to go scrambling for the statements of particular framers or ratifiers or whatever or even read the Federalist Papers either.
Oh, and I feel just as strongly about the unratified Child Labor Amendment. I believe in child labor. You need people with very small hands to handle dangerous machinery where adult hands just won't fit. My dream of starting a factory relying on the tiny hands of child labor shall not be thwarted! But more seriously, the Child Labor Amendment is dead. It died long ago. No explicit time limit doesn't mean forever.
I believe that people maybe were excited by the 27th Amendment because the Constitution hasn’t been amended in a while. But let’s face it, the Constitution is already pretty good. Despite not being perfect, it works well. That is why we aren’t amending it very much.
Instead of being annoyed at a dog chasing it own tail we should share in its joy.
Well... OK.
We'd all be better off if common sense was all there was to interpreting the law, and of course if common sense was more common. But its not.
Tillman wrote his first paper on his rubric for interpreting the various references to officer and office in 2013, as far as I can tell. So its not like this is manufactured controversy just to justify disqualifying Trump, or to prevent him from being disqualified. I myself first encountered the argument in 2017 when the argument was over whether Trump could book hotel rooms for foreign delegations, something he of course had been doing for decades, and I found Tillman's position on the emoluments clause convincing. I don't see why I should change my position now.
As I point out above, Baude seems to have changed his position on the Office/officer of/under controversy since his 2016 blog post seemingly endorsing Tillman's rubric. One might ask why he found it plausible then but dismisses out of hand now.
No one would ask who'd actually read Baude and Paulsen's paper.
Simply making an assertion and then declaring that you're done is hardly a compelling argument.
The oath taken by the president is not analogous to the commissions of lower-level officers. It's analogous to the oaths taken by those officers pursuant to Article VI, clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution and to 5 U.S.C. §3331.
Fortunately, the Constitution provides a clear answer.
Section 2 of Article II states that the "President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States..."
Is not the "Commander in Chief" an "officer?"
Yes, the "Commander in Chief" is an "officer," and Section 3 of Amendment XIV applies to Donald Trump.
On July 24, 1787, the Framers agreed on a resolution that read, "That the legislative, executive and judiciary POWERS, within the several States, and of the national Government, ought to be bound by Oath to support the Articles of Union.”
ARTICLE VI, Clause 3 Oaths of Office:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial OFFICERS, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.