The Volokh Conspiracy
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Court Upholds W. Va. Law Requiring Property Owners to Allow Guns Locked in Customer or Employee Cars in Parking Lot
From yesterday's decision by Judge John T. Copenhaver, Jr. (S.D. W. Va.) in W. Va. Coalition Against Domestic Violence, Inc. v. Morrisey; note that the court struck down two other provisions of the law, which I discuss in a separate post:
Previously, the BLPA [West Virginia's Business Liability Protection Act] allowed property owners to prohibit the open or concealed carry of a firearm anywhere on their properties …[:] "[A]ny owner, lessee or other person charged with the care, custody and control of real property may prohibit the carrying openly or concealing of any firearm or deadly weapon on property under his or her domain." …
In March 2018, the West Virginia Legislature enacted House Bill 4817 [the Parking Lot Amendments], which amended the BLPA to prohibit property owners from banning firearms in the parking lot areas of their properties …:
No owner, lessee, or other person charged with the care, custody, and control of real property may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm, when the firearm is
- Lawfully possessed;
- Out of view;
- Locked inside or locked to a motor vehicle in a parking lot; and
- When the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully allowed to be present in that area….
No owner, lessee, or other person charged with the care, custody, and control of real property may prohibit or attempt to prevent any customer, employee, or invitee from entering the parking lot of the person's place of business because the customer's, employee's, or invitee's motor vehicle contains a legal firearm being carried for lawful purposes that is out of view within the customer's, employee's, or invitee's motor vehicle….
The court will refer to [those provisions] collectively as the "No-Prohibition Provisions."
The BLPA also prohibits owners, lessees, and persons charged with the care, custody, and control of parking lots from "violat[ing] the privacy rights of a customer, employee, or invitee … [b]y conducting an actual search of a motor vehicle in a parking lot to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle[.]" The court will refer to this subsection as the "Search Provision." …
Finally, the "Employment Provision" … prohibits employers from conditioning employment on an employee's agreement to refrain from keeping a firearm locked in or locked to a vehicle in parking lot areas. {The Coalition does not challenge [a separate] subsection …, which prohibits employers from conditioning employment on "[t]he fact that an employee or prospective employee does or does not hold a [concealed carry license or provisional concealed carry license]."}
The court upheld the No-Prohibition Provisions:
[1.] The court held that, while the provisions restricted the challengers' property rights, those restrictions were constitutionally permissible. That seems consistent with the Supreme Court's precedents, especially PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins (1980), which held that state decisions to require large privately-owned shopping centers to allow leafletters and signature gatherers didn't violate the owners' property rights.
[2.] The restrictions didn't violate members' constitutional freedom of association rights. The court relied here, I think correctly, on Rumsfeld v. FAIR (2006), which held that private universities' expressive association rights weren't violated by the requirement that they allow military recruiters on the same terms as other recruiters. (Note that, though the law in Rumsfeld was a spending condition, the Court expressly held that the law would have been constitutional even as a direct regulation.)
[3.] The restrictions didn't violate any right of personal security that the Constitution might protect. That too, I think, is correct, given the very narrow scope of any such general personal security right that the courts have recognized.
The court also upheld the Search Provision against a vagueness challenge, again correctly, I think. And it didn't discuss the Employment Provision separately, presumably because plaintiffs didn't articulate enough of a challenge to it.
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my Spidey-Sense tells me Coach Sandusky will have something to say about this one.....
Frank
He's like a fly on a fresh dog pile.
I am the fly. You, the Volokh Conspirators, and the rest of their right-wing fans are the pile of . . .
Carry on, clingers. But only so far and so long as your betters are magnanimous enough to permit.
I was thinking more of a maggot, but hey, what's a fly but a grown up Maggot? I can read you like a QB reads a Secondary, "Coach"
Frank
These are your fans, Volokh Conspirators . . . and part of the reason your stale, ugly, right-wing thinking will be yet another casualty of the modern American culture war.
"Car Day" is more innocuous than some recent themed days.
I saw your comment coming and ran a bootleg for a big gain,
you might want to watch some more Game Film, "Coach", nobody running the Single-Wing anymore (OK, Dr. Ed2, tell me which Division III programs are running the Single-Wing?)
Frank "69! 69! Omaha!!!!"
something something rent-free in your head . . . .
Yes, Frank does live rent free in Coach's head.
That has to be an unconstitutional taking, surely? Government intrusion in how a private landowner uses their land is always a taking, as per Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid.
No; that's a far overbroad reading of what Cedar Point Nursery said.
Give it time.
Martinned: If you want to make a prediction about where you think the law is going, you can certainly do so, though I'm skeptical about that. But your comment above appeared to be framed as a statement about current law ("Government intrusion in how a private landowner uses their land is always a taking, as per Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid."). As a statement about current law, and in particular about what Cedar Point held, the statement is false.
Actually, Cedar Point Nursery involved state mandated intrusions into the property by people who the property owner affirmatively did NOT want on the property. Not the generalized question of "how a private landowner uses their property", which would have been an enormously more consequential ruling.
And this is about a property owner being forced to tolerate guns on their property that the property owner affirmatively did NOT want on the property.
You want people on your property, you have to accept that they're not showing up naked and not carrying anything, a reasonable allowance for them carrying personal property with them has to be implied. We're discussing the limits of that reasonable allowance.
You could have an atheist store owner, who found Bibles or Korans offensive, and put up a sign on the door, "No customers carrying religious literature welcome on this property."
In principle, a private property owner should be able to condition entry onto their property in any way they damned well pleased. That ship sailed over half a century ago, are we going to radio it to turn around and sail back to port?
I think it’s because even if you can’t stop someone breaking the law they can be punished for breaking it if caught. A surprising amount of law works that way.
We're not talking about breaking the law here, except maybe by the property owners. We're talking about people lawfully possessing firearms, which they leave in their car while parked.
Exactly how private is a parking lot again?
I would say that depends.
A parking lot at a strip mall? Scarcely private at all.
The employee parking lot where I work, behind a keycard operated gate? Moderately private, you can just walk in.
The parking lot at FN, not far from here, surrounded by barbed wire, with an armed guard at the gate? Yeah, that's pretty private.
What does that have to do with anything? A piece of land is government property or private property, that's all that matters.
Martinned: Government intrusion in how a private landowner uses their land is very rarely a taking; land use regulations and similar rules are routinely upheld, with no requirement to pay just compensation. Likewise for statutes that ban private landowners from, say, excluding visitors based on race, sexual orientation, sex, etc. And likewise, as in PruneYard, for various kinds of rules that limit private landowners' ability to restrict what their business visitors do once they are on their property.
Cedar Point had to do with a very specific kind of intrusion: A government requirement that landowners allow certain people on property that would otherwise have been closed to the public. In the Court's words, "Limitations on how a business generally open to the public may treat individuals on the premises are readily distinguishable from regulations granting a right to invade property closed to the public." The former generally aren't takings, see PruneYard; the latter generally are, see Cedar Point.
This is just a kind of discrimination law. Discrimination laws are not unconstitutional takings.
Not yet they're not. Give it time.
File this one under "Insanely Stupid But Not Unconstitutional."
It seems like excellent policy. If one worries about people walking around with concealed firearms and wants to permit stores, restaurants, churches etc. to forbid people from carrying firearms inside, then ensuring that those people can permissibly lock their firearms out of view in their car seems very practical.
Whether it's constitutional or not, I don't have a view.
If your baseline is that a property owner needs "permission" to restrict invitees from carrying firearms, I suppose it might follow that such permission comes with strings attached, like requiring the property owner to facilitate storage on the premises. But this strikes me as an awfully weak basis for eroding property rights. Is it really so important that the people of West Virginia never have to leave their weapons at home?
I'm not sure "importance" is a useful perspective. In practical terms, some number of people aren't going to leave their guns at home. Forbidding people to leave them locked up in their cars means more guns on one's person, whereas permitting safe storage in the car means fewer guns being carried around. Is eroding property rights worth it if it means fewer guns on the streets?
Wouldn't it be simpler and more direct to restrict the carry rights, instead of the property rights? If your ostensible purpose is fewer guns on the streets? Somehow I don't think that was the purpose here.
It’s a discrimination law. If liberals can protect people from being discriminated against because of things like sexual orientation, conservatives should be able to protect people from being discriminated against because of gun possession status. The constitutional analysis should the same.
I think it’s bad policy, but that’s irrelevant.
'My gun is my identity' is supposed to be parody, but here we are.
I don't think it's a discrimination law. "Gun possession status" isn't a thing; the owner isn't being discriminated against, the gun is. An anti-discrimination law would protect against gun owners being excluded regardless of whether or not they have a gun. More generally, with the exception of religion our anti-discrimination laws tend to be based on inherent characteristics of people, not choices they make.
Having said that, it's probably a pretty normal regulation. If the government wanted to say "movie theaters have to allow people to bring in their own snacks" that seems okay, and there doesn't seem to be an obvious Constitutional reason why guns should be different. I think it gets a bit more dubious if we start talking about private residences (can the government say you have to let people wear their shoes in your house?) but maybe driveways don't count as parking lots.
"If the government wanted to say “movie theaters have to allow people to bring in their own snacks” that seems okay, and there doesn’t seem to be an obvious Constitutional reason why guns should be different."
Actually, there is a reason guns would be different, which is that carrying a gun is actually an enumerated civil right, unlike carrying snacks. So the case for a law saying that movie theaters have to allow people to pack guns is actually a lot stronger than for one saying that they have to allow people to bring their own snacks.
If liberals can protect people from being discriminated against because of things like sexual orientation, conservatives should be able to protect people from being discriminated against because of gun possession status.
Wow, that's a ridiculous argument.
The property owner is not discriminating because of "gun possession status." Gun owners are not categorically barred. They are being "discriminated against" for behavior. This is fundamentally no different than a sign that says, "No shirt, no shoes, no service."
Okay, cool, so then you should be okay barring people inside who are wearing yarmulkes or hijabs?
"This is fundamentally no different than a sign that says, “No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
Could I ask you to compare/contrast these three rules a property owner might wish to enforce:
1)“No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
2)"No guns"
3)"No animals, including seeing eye dogs"
You left out 4) "No hats of head coverings, including religious ones."
My sympathies are with property owners; indeed, I'd favor the repeal of most anti-discrimination laws insofar as they apply to private individuals and businesses. And this applies to the exercise of constitutional rights on private property as well: I should have the right to tell you that you can't deliver speeches, hand out flyers, circulate petitions, hold religious services, or meet with your PFLAG or MAGA chapter on my property.
But Second Amendment rights present a somewhat knotty problem. I can easily turn my exercise of most of these other rights on and off, depending on where I happen to be and what the property owner will allow. If I'm delivering a speech on a public sidewalk and opt to get a drink at convenience store with a "No Politicking" sign, I can put my screed on hold while I'm in the store, then resume it as soon as I'm back on the sidewalk. Unfortunately, firearm possession doesn't work that way. If I'm walking down the sidewalk packing my twin six-shooters and want to go into a store with a "No Artillery" sign, I can't throw my guns way, way up in the air, do my business in the store, then catch them again when I emerge.
I'm not sure how to reconcile the rights of property owners to regulate what people do on their property with the right of gun owners to bear their arms when they're not on private property, given that the exercise of the first can have a serious adverse effect on the second. Any thoughts, others?
"I’m not sure how to reconcile the rights of property owners to regulate what people do on their property with the right of gun owners to bear their arms when they’re not on private property, given that the exercise of the first can have a serious adverse effect on the second. Any thoughts, others?"
The owner of a residential property ought to be able to exclude anyone for any reason.
For a business, if you want to exclude guns from your property, provide a secure gun check (like a coat check) and armed security.
Does this last paragraph apply to the exercise of other constitutional rights as well? Suppose I've been engaging in a political protest, involving carrying a picket sign on the public sidewalk. I'd like to take a break for lunch at your restaurant, but you disagree with my issue position, and are unwilling to have me bring my sign inside. If you want to exclude the sign, are you required to provide a secure place in which to store it until I reclaim it on my way out?
Look at Queenie, defending property-owners' right to put up "Whites only" signs! I mean, the excluded non-whites can work / shop elsewhere, right? Or is it just that you, like Elena Kagan, find these victims of discrimination "not sympathetic"?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whose_ox_is_gored
Tell that to shopping malls, they'll be glad to hear it.
If it was in California due to their state law, and this is a state law, what's the relevant distinction?
As I said above, in principle, a property owner should be entitled to bar entry to their property on any basis they damned well please. And screw "Lochnerism", the fact that they're using their property to make money shouldn't matter a bit. But, again,
"That ship sailed over half a century ago, are we going to radio it to turn around and sail back to port?"
So, the established precedent is that states damned well can compromise the rights of property owners to defend others' exercise of civil liberties on that property. Unless you're prepared to adopt a principled defense of property owners to, as Ed suggests above, put up "Whites only" signs, you don't seem to have much interest in reversing that precedent.
You just want a minor carve out for a particular civil liberty you don't want the state defending the exercise of.